Will Zijin Pay Up for this Copper Hopeful?

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Righto money miners, it's
Tuesday, but holy hell it feels

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like Friday.
And tell you what, if you wanna

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give yourself these companies
I'm about to call out need to

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give themselves an early weekend
and call MMS and bloody Sword

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had a friggin open pit mining
contract or a gold maker medals,

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Delta lithium slash gold brought
Star, Ozgold Astra When they get

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Gal Maximus Labyrinth, whoever
else needs to freaking move

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dirt, call MMS right now.
Those ones specifically.

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And if you don't call them, I'm
going to hand them your number

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anyway.
Couldn't, couldn't have said it

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better myself, Maddie.
Boys, what have we got today?

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We've.
Got three stories 4.

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I fucked in my mind.
You still writing here?

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Oh, very good.
Starting with Starting with

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Kilbride, I reckoned.
Yeah, so Pilbridge upsides the

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deaf facility, we've got uranium
spectacular from Eugenies are

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very addicted to copper in
Mongolia, and I'm gonna touch on

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a New Zealand gold M and a thing
involving Aussie super.

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Sure bro, I love your work right
let's.

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Start us off Pilbara.
Pilbara debt.

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Yeah, mate, I can't give this
story a bit of a whirl.

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I read it and I went down a
rabbit hole and anyway, ended up

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back at the beginning, but they
Pilbara Minerals basically

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announced that they've
established this $1 billion debt

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facility.
And I initially sort of read it

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and, you know, it seems like
this relatively innocuous

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announcement, right?
That wasn't even marked as sort

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of, you know, market sensitive
on ASX platform when it came up.

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But you know, in reality, like
I, I sort of went through the

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process of thinking there,
there, there could be something

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to this, You know, there there's
this is a big debt facility.

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It's more, more debt than
they've got in place already.

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What are they going to do with
it?

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They're going to buy something.
Is it for, you know, that that

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was the whole kind of rabbit
hole I wanted to go down and.

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Could be losing fuck loads of
money.

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Did you think of that one?
There are more mature company

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Maddie, that's the reason.
That is true in this pricing

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environment probably after
CapEx.

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What other theories have you got
mate?

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So, so like to be fair to
Pilbara, they did flag this at

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their full year results where
they, you know, they, they

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announced Pilbara announces this
is received credit approved

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commitments from a banking group
for a billion dollar deficit.

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So it's not, it's actually not
new news.

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Fair enough.
But it's, it's, it's, it's to a

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banking syndicate of commercial
lenders, B and PCBA, NAB, HSBC,

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Soxgen and ING, which is kind of
a similar rich syndicate.

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If you remember the original
Lyontown syndicate, remember it

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was like, I think it was ANZ,
they got Cogfeed, that

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syndicate.
So there's no ANZ here, but

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there's a couple of new ones if
you add ING and BNP to that.

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So just kind of interesting to
see which like commercial

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lenders are willing to play in
sort of, you know, with your

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finance.
It's a corporate finance.

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Yeah, it's not, it's not project
finance.

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It wouldn't put it that way, but
it's more a corporate facility

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because it's a revolving credit
facility, this one.

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Every time I say ING, I'll just
think of the Barefoot Investor.

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That's why I set up the ING
accounts.

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Very good.
Grow in the mojo.

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So what what did you sort of
find out?

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Like you, you looked in into the
weeds.

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You try to chase down obviously
what they need the the money

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for.
Try what was the?

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Other sort of outcomes, yeah,
came.

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To man like, you know, it's a
lot of money, you know, they

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want to buy something.
And the thing, the thing I

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immediately, immediately stood
out to me was the fact that they

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were in this announcement, they
they were repaying the

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concessional debt facilities
that they have in place.

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So this is low cost debt
facility with knife with with

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Export Finance Australia and
then basically paying that down.

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It's a was a condition of
entering this this new facility

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to but but basically in my head
I'm thinking it doesn't make

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sense.
Why would you pay down like

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you're cheap, your cheap debt in
order to pay a higher, higher

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interest rate, you know, more
expensive loan?

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Obviously they're increasing the
quantum.

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So I'm thinking they must have a
a deal in mind.

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What was the What was the
quantum of the knife and AFI?

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They, they basically, they had
some senior security as well,

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but all all up they had that
$400 million in debt.

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Oh.
Yeah, I have a double in it.

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Jeez.
Yeah, so, you know, I'm spoiler

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though it's not that juicy.
But you know, to kind of

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highlight my point though, you
can see here's here's the annual

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report, the interest rates that
they've been paying on those

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various existing facilities,
which added to 400 million were

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6.7 to 8.7% on the various
facilities there, which is,

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which is pretty cheap.
Like you know you can, you can

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bet the you know the interest
rate at the commercial banks and

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the banking syndicate they
announced today will be they're

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going to require higher than
what Nathan EFA require.

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So what then?
What's 6.95 point 7?

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That's about what sofa plus one
or two pretty live.

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Pretty it's safe for plus a
couple.

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It's a lot low ended for sure.
And like you know, Nathan if I

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think the tenors were enormous
on them too.

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It was like, I could be wrong,
but I'm pretty sure I saw like

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10 plus year tenors on on some
of them, which is pretty pretty

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friendly at at this point.
Like when when I'm seeing this,

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I'm reading this, I'm nearly
convinced myself there must be a

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deal in mind, but I stupidly
didn't realise that Pilbury had

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already told the mark about the
difficility at this point.

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I only realised that later,
which meant they of course got

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asked about it in the analysts
call.

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So I'll save you the the fine
print of my own stupid stupidity

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this morning.
I'll just play the question that

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they got asked months ago.
You picked up a particularly key

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point and that is that covenants
on the existing facility and

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particularly the the leverage
ratio will decline over FY25 to

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gross debt to EBITDA of two
times which is fairly

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restrictive.
This facility has a net debt to

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EBITDA leverage ratio, which
will take into account our

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significant cash balances, so is
significantly more flexible on

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on that basis.
Oh, at least you At least you

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kept yourself busy this morning.
Trap.

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Nothing wrong with that.
So sure, sure enough, there it

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is on the same page I grabbed
the interest rates from in the

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annual report, the restrictive
debt covenant that is referred

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to there, the gross leverage
ratio, so not greater than than,

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you know, 2.0 to one sort of
after 30 June 2025.

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And yeah, so it's, you know,
obviously the, the, the

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covenant, the covenants are, are
a role here and and of course,

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also providing some optionality
and flexibility with, with their

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liquidity going forward.
And you know, if you've got

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negative a but don't like you
talk about Maddie, it kind of

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complicates things if you've got
restrictive governance as well

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when it comes to you, yeah,
your, your debt facilities in

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place.
But you know, regardless they've

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got more liquidity now, which
allows more optionality.

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And that's the key point.
Optionality could be like a cash

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funded deal or it might not be.
They do guide to CapEx of 615 to

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$685 million in FY25.
So it's still very chunky CapEx

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this financial year.
And assume that like captures,

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you know, the bulk of P-1000,
which is supposed to be

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completed in FY25 as well.
So I, I look at what the street

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is expecting for CapEx after
FY25 and, and consensus is a lot

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like the street sort of things
are going to, you know, keep,

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keep investing a lot into CapEx.
The consensus numbers are FY20

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six 492,000,000, FY20 seven
906,000,000, FY20 eight

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647,000,000.
So look.

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Is there?
Is that an?

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Is that an assumption of pay
2000 gallon a head various?

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Assumptions, these are like
these like whatever the brokers

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have in their base case is
whatever they want to model as

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their base case.
But these are just consensus.

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So it's it'd be like spread
between yeah, P like P2000.

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They might, I don't know if
some, some are including Latin

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like pre development sort of
sort of, you know, work as well

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in their in their CapEx.
But the the point is there's,

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there's more than enough
internal competition for capital

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to to warrant the debt facility.
If if you know when you've got

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those kind of yeah, like growth,
growth options from your own

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your own capital at the same
time.

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So I'm not going to rule out
more Internet like more more

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inorganic growth at the at the
right time too as a result of,

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you know, this debt facility
just never know many.

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Where would you be?
Where?

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Where would you put your finger
on there?

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Trav sticking like a sigmary
thing in Brazil or I.

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Think you.
Think of.

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Wyi think, I think base case
nothing for a long time, Sigma

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at the right time.
But yeah, I think I'm pretty

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sure Anna's got like just stars
in her eyes on value there.

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So good luck.
You know, 90% premium.

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That'll do to the all time high
that'll.

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Do the have?
You heard, I don't know if

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you're scaring through the
announcements, is there anything

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in there detail and if Pilbara
Minerals have contacted CRE

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insurance yet to get to broke
the policies for the Latin

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assets?
Glaringly absent Maddie.

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Really unfortunately.
So surprising, although they

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would have because that's your
first call on any sort of M and

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I because you don't want to
frigging insurance stitch up on

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something that you're buying
not.

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Not just M&A man, don't forget
Pilbara, right?

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Like have you seen the the all
sorting machinery that they've

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just sold as part of that P680I
think like, oh, I reckon this is

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a photo of the OR sorting that
they've installed there.

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Oh monstrous mate.
Imagine if that bit of kit went

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down for a few days.
That's that's business

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interruption.
Mate, as we've seen,

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catastrophic failure is possible
for processing infrastructure,

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as we mentioned yesterday for
Pantora, but you can insure

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against that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you need it.

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But Steve, like, like tar is
your CRE guy in Perth and the

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way the best way to explain him
is he's like one of those assets

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in the Jason Bourne movies.
Like he's sitting there and when

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he gets the call, it's on like
it is game time.

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He he and he's straight on like,
like.

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And Harrow's in town this week
for the idea of conference might

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give the CRE boys a buzz and
might they'll sort.

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Yeah, it's.
I guarantee you that they'll

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tell you something you don't
know about insurance.

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Broking bloody Oh.
This.

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Simple as that.
I can't say it anymore.

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Simple.
Far out right?

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Next up on the shopping list
today, Xanadu.

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Xanadu, we, we spoke about
Xanadu a couple weeks ago now I

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think and yesterday.
Hey, last week.

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So last week.
Yesterday.

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Time flies.
So yesterday, Tuesday.

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About a big week.
So we got the PFS that we were

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excited to see also got an
updated reserve and resource

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statement.
And why I think this is

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interesting Long story short is
I think something is going to

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happen here pretty soon.
So we're just starting quickly

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with the the updated resources.
They updated this not too long

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ago in August and then again
yesterday.

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The key difference is just
tweaking the cut off.

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So from 0.2% copper equivalent
down to 0.13% copper equivalent.

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Total resource 2.2 billion
tonnes at 0.29% copper

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equivalent.
This is bloody low grade, huge

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sort of scale thing. 4.7 million
tonnes of contained copper and

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11,000,000 ounces of gold.
And that tweaking of the cut off

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grade substantially increases
the contained copper up almost

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25% just on that slight change
of the number there.

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Since you do have to blow most
of it up anyway, right?

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You can't.
Just like I know we're just

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going to leave that chunk.
There doesn't quite work like.

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That does it.
That's bloody .1.

224
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,640
I can't touch that shit.
So let's let's get into the the

225
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,560
PFS, which is a bit more
interesting.

226
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,320
As a quick reminder, Xanadu
owned a bit over 38% of the

227
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,160
economics of the project.
The headline numbers are 21% IRR

228
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:32,000
US 930 million MPV using an 8%
discount rate, 4 year payback

229
00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,080
and a 29 year mine life.
So this is.

230
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:36,880
What base case throughput did
they go with?

231
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,440
This is big for the first eight
years, 26,000,000 tonnes per

232
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:41,840
annum.
So they're notched that up from

233
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,560
the earlier initial 15,000,000
tonne per annum going up to

234
00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:49,600
52,000,000 tonnes per annum.
So just just huge the the

235
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,920
numbers don't exactly scream
knockout and they're kind of,

236
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,600
you know, looking at the
numbers, they have played it so

237
00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,160
that they met some of the
conditions that needed to be met

238
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,680
for this ageing agreement to
stay in place.

239
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,480
But I think there's a bit more
to it that we should kind of

240
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,520
chat about.
It's big, big CapEx, low grade

241
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,440
copper deposit.
But you know, you can see in

242
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,640
this cross section like that pit
is, it's tremendously deep in

243
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,680
that, in that PFS base case too.
Like you're kind of looking,

244
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,320
yeah, that that PFS pit base
case is like 700 metres.

245
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,080
Deep and it looks like the the
honeypots.

246
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:29,320
What 4-5?
A depth about. 400 metres down

247
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,960
she starts.
Yeah, that really good bit is a

248
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,800
bit deeper that they did sort of
actually discuss potentially

249
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:40,520
block caving, but they've kept
it very, very simple with the

250
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,800
with the PFS today and they'll
they'll look into a few other

251
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:44,480
things.
I don't imagine that would kind

252
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,760
of change going forward.
But we're talking about 75,000

253
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:52,200
tonnes per annum copper
production and 165,000 ounces of

254
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,520
gold every year.
And I assume they haven't got

255
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,920
Aussie 3900 is the gold price in
the study either.

256
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,160
The the gold price the the
commodity price assumptions are

257
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,160
pretty interesting.
We'd chat through in a moment

258
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:12,800
but they use 2100 US for gold
and 4 bucks 10 for copper a

259
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,560
pound.
I can't believe we're talking

260
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:18,880
about .2% copper deposits.
But then 29 but.

261
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,160
Then again, equivalent.
Equivalent.

262
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,040
Yeah, equivalent.
Yeah, no, but then you, you

263
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,360
wouldn't have think freaking 10
years ago you'd be talking about

264
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,400
two gramme gold undergrounds,
how things change.

265
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,520
Exactly.
So a key, a key point of

266
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,160
difference now going forward
that the PFS is being released

267
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,200
is that Z gene has taken over as
the operator.

268
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,560
That'll be the case through the
the final feasibility, although

269
00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:47,200
there'll be discussions ongoing
as we kind of speak now.

270
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:52,040
And as we said a couple weeks
ago, I think there is a, you

271
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,080
know, there could be significant
value uplift in Zejan doing it.

272
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,560
As we said at the time, these
are Western numbers, Zejan,

273
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:00,520
they, they pretty much said it
in the, in the webinars.

274
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,800
Anadu Zejan will be able to pull
those numbers right down.

275
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,080
But obviously that's not a, a
case that Xanadu can base upon

276
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,560
their, their numbers.
So they've got to do it with

277
00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:12,320
their assumptions there,
independent contractors and

278
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,400
these sorts of things, but Sajin
will be looking at it and

279
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,600
they'll be running their
complete own numbers on this

280
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,320
one.
I better have some bloody

281
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,440
numbers in that study for a
friggin grounded camp JD.

282
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,360
Are they in there?
Tell me about the grounded camps

283
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,360
mate, we'll see if they can.
You tell me if they're in there.

284
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,960
Well, you know, these grounded
camps.

285
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,280
I don't know if you know this.
You know why they're so bloody

286
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:31,680
good.
I.

287
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,720
Don't know.
'Cause they're built by Paul

288
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,280
Natali, and Paul Natali was
voted the best builder in Sicily

289
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,160
10 years running, that is.
That is a true fact.

290
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,080
It's actually quite a feat.
There's some good builders in

291
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,520
Sicily.
Yeah, and yeah, and that and

292
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,440
don't underestimate what that is
heavily competitive, that

293
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,680
competition.
Have a look at those Sicilian

294
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,200
buildings I've got here.
These were built in the late

295
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,840
1800s.
Notice anything special about

296
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:58,920
them?
They're still up.

297
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,880
They still look brand new after
frigging 120 years.

298
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,720
You know what?
Because that's because Sicilians

299
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,160
built them.
And they're beautiful.

300
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,200
Right, there's a new rule in the
mining industry I'm announcing

301
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,000
today.
Anyone that wants to build

302
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,280
bloody a mine, camp or any
infrastructure on site, the

303
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,680
builder has to have Sicilian
heritage that is.

304
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,800
And like the only Sicilian
builder I know in Australia that

305
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,280
services the mining industry is
Paul Natali from Grounded.

306
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:30,880
So in in honour of this new rule
for the mining industry, I

307
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:36,320
suggest in true Sicilian style
we have some limoncello I'm.

308
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,640
In let's do it.
Let's get it.

309
00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:42,640
What a bloody.
What a choose.

310
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:50,560
Here we go.
Salute there, go grounded, go

311
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,840
grounded and go Sicily.
You'll need a grounded camp to

312
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,440
incentivize a workforce out
there mate.

313
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,440
It is harsh country.
Montgoli a harsh.

314
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,600
Country this bloody piece of
piss for Paulie.

315
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,680
Do it in his sleep.
Anyway, back to Xanadu.

316
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,600
What else stood out?
Jagger, we're pumped up now.

317
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,840
Bloody blowing point O2.
So obviously there's, there's a

318
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,360
couple challenges, Maddie, and
this one's not even a spin for

319
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,320
an ad, but water is one of the
biggest ones they need to

320
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,480
address.
They're confident the types of

321
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,800
water in the in the Gobi desert
just take takes a bit of time,

322
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,040
bit of politics to to sort it
all out and get that one sorted.

323
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,000
They need to come up with an
investment agreement with the

324
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,000
Mongolian government.
This was, you know, a big

325
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,640
dragging feature of OT getting
that going for, for Rio.

326
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,800
A lot of negotiations again can
take a while, but overall I

327
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,280
think there's, you know this
quite a bit of race as well as

328
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,200
quite a bit of conservatism in
the PFS.

329
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,800
And I think it kind of balances
out and by and large has taken a

330
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,000
bit a bit of a conservative
approach.

331
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,720
It's not like there's sort of
wild outreaching numbers that

332
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,400
we're talking about that we have
done in the past with scoping

333
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:03,360
studies and PFSS&DFSS where
perhaps the commodity price

334
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,400
assumptions are just way out of
the the ballpark.

335
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,240
One thing that stood out though
was the recoveries came right

336
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,760
off from Skyping to PFS.
They did and that they, they

337
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,000
addressed that again sort of
speaking to conservatism,

338
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:22,839
taking, taking on the the advice
of the independent contractors

339
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,119
that they've they've pulled into
to do those ones.

340
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,720
We had spoken a couple weeks ago
about potentially trading some

341
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,960
of the oxide or transition
stuff, doing test work on that,

342
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,640
putting that in a heat bleach.
They've completely ruled that

343
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,440
out.
There's optionality on that

344
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,160
potential with silver.
They've put a line through it

345
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,080
through that.
Yeah, that might be something

346
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,120
that eventuates in the in the
BFS that they're doing.

347
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:47,200
So there's a few things, but
you're right, recoveries

348
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,600
probably were a bit lighter on
from the expectations and from

349
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,600
the initial study that they've
done.

350
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,800
What are they proposing to do
with the oxide now if they're

351
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,920
not hate bleaching it?
So they're putting it in a low

352
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,880
grade stockpile, yeah, away from
the the the waste essentially.

353
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,320
And I think in time that will
get addressed, but that's just

354
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,080
not part of yet they're.
Just not going to process it

355
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:09,400
well.
It's each in mind but Dan.

356
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,840
And who's not going to put out
APFS saying that space case?

357
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,320
Yeah, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

358
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:17,440
Interesting, right.
So buddy, what's next for them,

359
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,880
JD?
So one of the things we'd spoken

360
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,880
about was potentially skipping
the the BFS and going straight

361
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,920
through.
They are now talking about doing

362
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:26,600
it.
So the BFS had talked about

363
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,800
earlier construction run in
parallel with engineering work,

364
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,000
but they're now talking about
doing a final study starting Q1

365
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,880
of next calendar year running
through to Q2 of calendar year

366
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,720
2026.
And again, Colin in the webinar

367
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,360
said Zegen are confident they
can do it quicker.

368
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,920
So I think already there's that
gamesmanship and negotiations

369
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,480
taking place, whereas Zejan want
to get this thing going straight

370
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:51,600
away.
They want to get the mine in

371
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,520
operation.
And I'm sure Zana do a thinking

372
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,120
the same that they want to do
the same.

373
00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:58,640
But maybe that's not the best
negotiation strategy to go on

374
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,600
say that aloud.
Maybe they're starting to play

375
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,920
those sorts of games.
And this kind of ties in with

376
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,560
the the ultimate end game of of
how this goes because the the

377
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,080
clock is ticking and the the
negotiations are well and truly

378
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,120
on Collins flying up to China to
speak with Zejan next week.

379
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,400
But in a nutshell, there was
three options.

380
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,720
They could sell their interest
for 50 million US to Zijin.

381
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,840
They could sell half of their
interest to Zijin for 25,000,000

382
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:31,600
and get Zijin to finance their
remaining construction costs

383
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,240
with sofa plus 5% debt that
would be paid out from the

384
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:40,000
dividends in time.
Or they can fund their share of

385
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,280
the construction costs, which
they're not too inclined to do.

386
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,520
They've spoken out against that
in in the past already.

387
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,720
So you've you've got your
options on the table there.

388
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,600
There's also this six month, you
know, shot clock running now for

389
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,760
this, this put option, this
right to sell to Z Gen that

390
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,320
started once the PFS was
delivered.

391
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,280
So as if yesterday and I'll
flash up some wording from the

392
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,080
agreement they released to the
market at the back end of 2022.

393
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,480
So they've got six months to do
this.

394
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:14,400
That includes getting.
Shareholder approvals, so we

395
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,600
could see something quite soon
on that front, given the

396
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,920
shareholder approvals themselves
could take a little while.

397
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,000
You've also got the fact that
Xanadu aren't flush with cash.

398
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,920
We've got 5,000,000 bucks again,
that's gives them the incentive

399
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,040
to kind of move quickly.
And just listening to some of

400
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,800
the wording again in, in the
webinar, I'll read out a couple

401
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:37,880
phrases that column, the, the MD
of the company said Kamektai

402
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,200
would sit nicely in Sajan's
portfolio.

403
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,480
They're perfectly positioned to
build and operate it.

404
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,800
This is what they're running
toward.

405
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,880
These guys are pretty eager.
They're talking about it being

406
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,120
a, a long journey.
We've had shareholders in here

407
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:53,440
for quite a while.
You know that he's going up

408
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,000
there next week in my, in my
point of view, with the

409
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,120
intention of negotiating a deal
with Seijin to get this one done

410
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:02,160
and dusted sort of run through
in the past.

411
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,360
How they look at those three
options, they spoke a bit about

412
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,200
potentially having a third party
come on.

413
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,080
That just seems like very hard
work with Siege and already

414
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,440
owning almost 20% in Xanadu
outside of the joint venture

415
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,480
structure.
And yeah, I mean, Xanadu also

416
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,160
have Jeffrey's engaged Defence.
I mean, it's not probably your

417
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,440
stock standard name in
Australia, but they've got them

418
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,560
there.
You know, American Investment

419
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,480
Bank and Backus looking at debt,
they sort of spoke about a $25

420
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,520
million number needed if they
were to stamp up for their

421
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,560
portion of the feasibility
studies.

422
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,240
Maybe there's been a bit of a
sell off today.

423
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,880
Maybe that's the market
anticipating that they will need

424
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,400
to raise a bit of cash.
But again, that's not something

425
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:46,920
that's really in their
interests.

426
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,720
So we'll kind of see where it
goes.

427
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,760
But I think it's it's kind of
exciting because I don't think

428
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,000
you're just going to see this
drag on and on on forever.

429
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,600
I think that's a less likely
outcome.

430
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,560
I think more likely you're going
to see something happen in the

431
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,960
in the nearer term.
With five bucks in the Bank of

432
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,480
the are they negotiating from a
bit of a point of place of

433
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,880
weakness, do you think?
What do you think?

434
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:13,440
They're obviously Xiagen have
got the power here or not, but

435
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,480
even though they've got the
Xanadu's got the ownership.

436
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,280
I think it goes it goes both
ways, right, Because Xiagen want

437
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,920
to move so quickly, they want to
get the copper online so they

438
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,640
can stall on on their part with
their interest in the project.

439
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:33,240
To start the DFS, Xanadu has to
approve the budget so Xanadu has

440
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,640
the ability to stall progress.
However their option lapses in

441
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,680
in six months.
So ZGN could play hardball and

442
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,200
just you know, or you want to
sell a budget.

443
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,160
Let's just let's just let the
clock tick and then what happens

444
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,440
if they're up if their option
lapses too So and then and then

445
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,080
certainly come raise.
But it there's leverage from

446
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,600
both perspectives.
You're trying to call bluff does

447
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,600
they didn't want want to bring
this online like faster than you

448
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,800
know, and just want what what an
outcome where they, you know,

449
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,280
offer a offer a takeover for the
company at a premium, but there

450
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,400
might just be some go slow kind
of tactics in the interim.

451
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,200
It's kind of hard, hard to read
this.

452
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,080
There's certainly, you know,
upside and downside depending on

453
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,960
how you read that play, but
there's there's gamesmanship.

454
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,560
It's a it's a special situation.
It's this is like a special

455
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,000
special sense kind of thing
here.

456
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,360
So how would how would it go
like it when you say like I

457
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:24,160
assume Zejin can't take over
Xanadu but they can buy the

458
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,800
project off them.
They could do either.

459
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,240
They're listed.
Either or.

460
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:29,840
Yeah, I could.
A takeover is very much one of

461
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,040
the options on the table and
might even be the the top

462
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,320
outcome that the Xanadu team is
going to negotiate.

463
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,280
OK so even if it's so dumb
question like a try a try,

464
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,320
Zijing can take over an ISX
listed company without any Ferb

465
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,920
involvement.
They got Ferb approval for the

466
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,560
arrangement that is already in
place.

467
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,840
Leads me to think Ferb would be
Ferb approval would be

468
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,000
attainable.
And because it's not in

469
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,400
Australia, it shouldn't.
It's not really Ferb's problem.

470
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,280
I should.
Ferb has had some like overreach

471
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,800
in the past where they've
blocked stuff like that in

472
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,520
Africa.
But yeah, I I wouldn't like my

473
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,680
interpretation of where Ferb's
at right now is you wouldn't

474
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:11,800
expect them to get in the way of
this.

475
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,400
Yeah, interesting, very
interesting.

476
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,360
Got the bloody, got the Ice Peel
boys.

477
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,960
Absolutely mate.
Oh, watching this come closely.

478
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,440
Come into the wheelhouse in the
last couple of weeks, hasn't it?

479
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,280
It has, and you've got your ice.
Peel.

480
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,280
I didn't just discover it like
it's been around for a bit.

481
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,160
A long, long time ago, yeah.
Mate buddy, bit of bit of

482
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,280
nuclear news out last night
which is interesting.

483
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:38,200
The old SMRS back in the news.
So Google apparently buying,

484
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,120
signing a corporate agreement to
buy nuclear power for their AI

485
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:46,800
needs.
So this it's for the purchase of

486
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,960
500 megawatts of power from six
to seven small modular reactors

487
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,080
from Kairos Power.
So this Kairos Power is it's

488
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,120
like a nuclear engineering
company to build these SMRS, but

489
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:00,720
they're backed by the Department
of Energy in the US.

490
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:06,960
So all for like AI data centre
needs, but it's no yeah, so it's

491
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,800
obviously no IP 1000 it's about
half the size of that

492
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,160
disagreements for but and
they're saying that these the

493
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:18,440
first SMR will be aimed to be in
operation by 20-30 future and

494
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,800
for further deployments through
the 2035.

495
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,640
So it is and these yeah 'cause
the SMRS thing I think I saw one

496
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,400
article saying there's 3IN
operation globally.

497
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,800
I've heard one, I've heard none.
Like they're not they're not

498
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,640
prevalent yet, but.
The word is prevalent though.

499
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,360
The word is prevalent.
Oh yeah, like data centres.

500
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,160
I'll show them that shit loads
of data centres, don't I?

501
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,600
Not yet, but they're so and
because the difference with

502
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,920
these SMRS compared to the I'll
get the conventional pressurised

503
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,080
water reactors like water being
used as the coolant.

504
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:56,000
These use molten fluoride salt
as the reactor coolant.

505
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,640
So and then so these SMRS,
they're like looks like the

506
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,560
commercial plant that they going
to offer.

507
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,240
They got only block these pilot
demo plants now, but it's like

508
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,960
275 MW.
What modular things that so I

509
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:16,560
assume three of those would give
you 450 and molten fluoride

510
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,280
salts.
Bit of chemistry education new

511
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,280
boys.
It's used as a coolant because

512
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,120
chemical stability it's a it
transfers heat at very high

513
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:31,240
temperatures and it actually
retains some of the radioactive

514
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,600
fishing products that can be
released from the fuel during

515
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,080
the whole process.
So and because it's a low

516
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,440
pressure reactor.
So when they say the high

517
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,240
pressure, the pressurised water
reactors there, they're

518
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,360
pressurised so the water doesn't
boil, whereas these are low

519
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:49,560
pressure reactors.
So apparently this is all off

520
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,600
their website, which means it's
all in their favour.

521
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,040
But you don't need the bulky and
high expensive like the high

522
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,680
pressure containment structures
and all that.

523
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,040
So it's like I don't know if
it's apparently safer.

524
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,200
But as I said, that's from the
car Ross website.

525
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:10,200
So and but these ones are these
are one of the high low high low

526
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,360
reactors.
So you can see from the table

527
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:17,200
that the fuel required is to be
enriched to 19.75%, which is the

528
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,960
level of U235, which is high
assay low enrichment uranium.

529
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,040
And then so and there's always
the questions been recently

530
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,920
around enrichment capacity
around the world.

531
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,160
That is I guess ex Russia 'cause
as we know, as if you haven't

532
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,480
heard Russia's about a bit under
half of global uranium

533
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,160
enrichment capacity at the
moment.

534
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,440
But there are a few
announcements in the last couple

535
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,760
of months.
So you had to run on the French

536
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,600
utility early in September
announcing plans to build a

537
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,640
multi multi billion dollar
enrichment facility in Tennessee

538
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,440
in the US.
So and mentioned in the article,

539
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,200
it could be equipped to enrich
to Hilu as well.

540
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,560
So not just your normal 3 to 5%
low enrichment level.

541
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,160
And then you've also got, and
then they're also doing a one

542
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,080
point US $1.9 billion expansion
of their enrichment facility in

543
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,080
Southern France, which is going
to lift that enrichment capacity

544
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,360
by 30%.
And then you've also got the

545
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,200
other global staple you'd say
you're Ranko.

546
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,400
So they're the British, German,
Dutch consortium.

547
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,200
Yep.
They've also just expanded their

548
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,920
enrichment capacity in New
Mexico by 15%.

549
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,840
So they added more centrifuges
to the existing facility.

550
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,960
So and I think that capacity,
extra capacity is going to come

551
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,480
on by early 2025.
So there's a yeah, there's a bit

552
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,800
of work in the mix and done and
about to be done on enrichment

553
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,760
expense and outside of Russia.
So which is going to be

554
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,680
extremely critical come you know
your 2030 and all that to get

555
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:58,240
the high low capacity for this.
These types of SMRS because we

556
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,080
have the SMRS are sort of going
to be probably in A2 phase

557
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,240
thing.
The first ones we'll just use

558
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:10,520
like a 6% enriched uranium and
then they'll sort of be using

559
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,000
the Halo, which later on, which
obviously requires a shit load

560
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,280
more spinning to get the U235
level up to the 19 percent, 19

561
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,320
to 20%.
So yeah, mate, that's she's

562
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,760
pretty cool.
So as you go and the one we

563
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,480
haven't seen, I think Canadian
markets were closed last night,

564
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,440
but we haven't like this
announcement is you look at

565
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,840
this, how's this different to
the Three Mile Island

566
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,880
announcement timing?
Yeah, So it's not near term

567
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,280
pounds, whereas 3 Mile Island
was like that where Microsoft

568
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,400
did the deal.
Three Mile Island's getting

569
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,320
restarting much shorter time
frame.

570
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,200
So it's like right, that is near
term pounds that are needed to

571
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,680
put in those bloody reactors,
whereas this.

572
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,600
Is bigger as well.
Yeah, 20th.

573
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,840
Yeah, 20th.
Yeah, a bit bigger, not huge,

574
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,440
but like that's like we're
talking here 20302035, but it's

575
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,480
like there any announcement that
will come out in the nearer term

576
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,520
saying we're restarting a
reactor which say it's like 1

577
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,240
like 2 years for instance.
It's like right, where are you

578
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,040
going to find the pounds for
that in the two years

579
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,040
considering you know, a lot of
all the contracts in place out

580
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,920
to 2030 already.
So they're the really market

581
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,360
sensitive ones and this one
probably isn't as sensitive.

582
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,160
More more risk in this one as
well right?

583
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,200
Not a proven technology.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

584
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:36,000
But but you know, but it's, it's
the theme of the of the major

585
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,440
tech companies like now becoming
hyper engaged in this whole

586
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,160
like, you know, nuclear thesis
is sort of playing, playing out.

587
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,040
Just I think kind of kind of a
big deal from a, from just like

588
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,360
a social acceptance perspective
as well, because the mining

589
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,440
industry sucks at PR and comms,
like just bad at it.

590
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,600
But the tech?
Same with the nuclear industry

591
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:58,720
themselves.
Yeah, totally.

592
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,000
But the tech companies, everyone
fucking, they've got a Halo

593
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:01,920
around them.
Everyone loves them.

594
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,560
So the moment they start
advocating for nuclear, happy

595
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:04,880
days.
Yeah, yeah.

596
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,800
So it's pretty, I think.
And there was another article I

597
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,320
saw Amazon recently bought a
data centre somewhere that was

598
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,240
actually fed from nuclear.
Yeah, a nuclear power station.

599
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,160
So I yeah, it's the, you know,
the big seven or lot the tech

600
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,200
parts of the big seven, like
that's that's where the like

601
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,240
they're just, they're on a whole
different scale than we're

602
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,640
talking about when we're talking
about BHP and Rio.

603
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,600
Like they choose, they can move
a global needle and it's better

604
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,680
and this is one of them.
So, yes, beautiful, right.

605
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,040
Trav, what did you what did you
come up with in the at the crack

606
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,640
of.
Dawn one more from me This is a

607
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,560
bit happening with a sexist
company called Siren Gold.

608
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,200
Namely they received an
unsolicited offer from

609
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,480
federation mining.
Now, Siren Gold, like, you know,

610
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,280
it's a small cap and they've got
two undeveloped gold projects in

611
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,720
New Zealand, one's called Reefs
and the other one is Sam's

612
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,600
Creek.
Federation Mining, They're a

613
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,720
private gold developer.
Aussie Super has actually tipped

614
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,240
in almost $200 million into this
company last year.

615
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,520
I'm pretty sure that, you know,
there was a process, a strategic

616
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,440
review or a process run for
Federation Mining to, you know,

617
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,600
get sold was how I interpreted
it, but seemingly didn't go

618
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,920
anywhere.
Now Federation indicating that

619
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,880
you know they're going to
they're going to pull pull the

620
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,960
trigger on a decision to mine
this year.

621
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,560
I found this presentation the
production profile from you know

622
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,240
their their proposed mine in in
in New Zealand doesn't kind of

623
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,720
knock the lights out.
It's mere sort of 63,000 oz per

624
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,400
annum over over like 10 to 12
years.

625
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,240
It's not huge, right?
But they do they reckon first

626
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,960
gold end of 2025 S.
Yeah, God, she looks a bit

627
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,840
bloody.
I don't know if that's a deep

628
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,640
bloody ore body or is it bloody
cut and fill.

629
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,680
But yeah, it looks, looks very
flat.

630
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,160
Looks similar to like a Mcrae's
thing over there.

631
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,840
Flat ore bodies over there.
Any pains in the asses anyway?

632
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,640
To 8:00 PM on on Sunday night St
talks you know it's a late late

633
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,720
weekend one St talk they
rumoured that Federation mining

634
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,200
could be looking at Siren gold
chucked up this you know this

635
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,160
this article and then sure
enough, Siren confirms they

636
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,320
actually received an NBIO from
Federation in an announcement

637
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,080
they put up on Monday morning.
So yesterday morning in 3 1/2

638
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,440
short hours later they followed
up by saying they've declined

639
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,160
the MBIO they they did not
consider their proposal from

640
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,600
federation to be superior for
the definitive agreement already

641
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,000
in place with ruler gold Rua
gold.

642
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,920
And this is where some context
is, is needed on the on the 15th

643
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,200
of July a couple months ago,
Siren basically said it has

644
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,640
agreed to sell its Reefton
project for $20 million

645
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,840
Australian to rule gold, 2
million in cash and 80 million

646
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,280
in shares.
Siren would then focus on its

647
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,840
Sam's Creek project.
So the board's position in this

648
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,720
deal with, with Rua is that
it's, it's superior, you know,

649
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,120
from a value perspective to
shareholders to the federation

650
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,040
offer, which, which would have,
you know, seen Siren

651
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,560
shareholders end up with, with
10% of that pro forma, you know,

652
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,880
enlarged closer to production
minor.

653
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,680
So you know, with federation,
the asset is is fully permanent

654
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,040
to production got backside
10,000 metres of decline and and

655
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,520
and ramp development is
completed over 18,000 metres

656
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,760
trilled and all development is
under way on three levels

657
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,840
already.
So it's more advanced, but the

658
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,840
shareholders of Siren will get
in a much less of the the pie.

659
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,280
Where it gets interesting though
is that the the federation offer

660
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,800
like was conditional on the
transaction with Rua being

661
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,159
terminated.
So, you know, there might be

662
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,280
some some synergies if you
bundle Reifton project with

663
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,600
federation potentially.
And the rule transaction isn't

664
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,679
actually a done deal yet.
It's it's conditional on

665
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:45,040
shareholder approval.
Shareholders are voting Thursday

666
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,520
this week, but the deadline for
proxy instructions was actually

667
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,800
3:00 PM today.
So yeah, right.

668
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,280
Regardless, I'm really
interested to see how the the

669
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,120
siren shareholders vote on, on
this one.

670
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,640
There's, you know, there's kind
of too much happening really

671
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,320
late in the, the game from a, a
voting perspective, I think to

672
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,600
really influence an outcome from
a, from a shareholder vote.

673
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,120
But I'm still kind of interested
to to track that vote and just

674
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,360
say, is there a contingent of
Siren shareholders that vote

675
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,480
against this deal because they
actually recognise there's more

676
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,760
value and potentially, you know,
backdooring Federation mining to

677
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,200
to the ASX boards via this sort
of reverse takeover, which was

678
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,560
the the pitch of the Federation
mining.

679
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,880
It's like it's even, it's like
this is like a, it's like shell

680
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,600
company behaviour, the reverse
takeover.

681
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,920
Yeah, yeah.
To publicly, publicly list a

682
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,120
private asset.
And that's.

683
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,880
Bread and butter of West Perth.
Oh right, Jesus you keep you

684
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,600
know how much food's been put on
the table from an RTR I.

685
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,720
Think, I think there's like a
read through there because it's,

686
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:49,840
this is like a, it's basically
an Aussie super private company.

687
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,040
Like, like, you know, the vast
majority of money being tipped

688
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,600
into it is from Aussie super.
And if they ran up, if there was

689
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,120
a process run and they didn't
get an accessible outcome,

690
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,520
they've now determined that the
way to get the best possible

691
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:07,000
outcome is, is a public listing.
So Aussie super probably wants

692
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,640
it to be public for a reason.
And they, they, they, you know,

693
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:16,480
they clearly, you know, thinking
RTO is, is the best way to best

694
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,840
way to do that with, with Sarah.
And I think that it's kind of a

695
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,960
Aussie super who put the vast
majority of the money into

696
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,280
federation.
They, they want to, you know,

697
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,040
they want, they want, they want
a return on their money.

698
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,160
And they think they're going to
get that via a public listing or

699
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,080
an RTO here, which, yeah, if, if
they didn't get the value that

700
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,280
they, you know, wanted to get
from a, from a strategic review,

701
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,920
maybe the public markets are
the, the only acceptable place

702
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,000
they're looking now.
But they might have to find

703
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,120
somewhere other than Siren to go
if shareholders don't want.

704
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,240
That yeah, yeah.
Interesting, funny bit of bit of

705
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:55,440
action on the small end of town.
Absolutely.

706
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,080
IPO is not really an option at
the moment either, so we'll see

707
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,480
what happens.
Well, there's still a decision

708
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,800
to mine as well, so that there's
going to be more capital that

709
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,800
needs to be raised and obviously
probably wants to share the load

710
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,160
there rather than, yeah, stump
it all up themselves.

711
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,760
So a majority of it.
This is true.

712
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,640
Good stuff, Matt.
I think we'll call it a day

713
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,240
there.
Oh, what a day it is, What a day

714
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:20,440
it is.
Oh, she's got to be a good day

715
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,200
Tomorrow it will be give, give.
Give yourself a good day and get

716
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,080
it.
Give him an MMS, an open pit

717
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,760
mining contract, and every day
after that it'll be the best day

718
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,360
of your life.
Pretty much say the same for

719
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,600
Grounded.
Oh man, get a Sicilian mining

720
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,960
camp India ASAP.
Made cross boundary energy, made

721
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,760
Sambic ground support.
Oh the list keeps on going.

722
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,360
CRE insurance, Greenland's
equipment, K drill, MMTS,

723
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,240
Australian earthworks and
haulage and holy snapping duck

724
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:52,920
shit.
Get a spark chart.

725
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,560
India Hodoroo money miners.
Roo Roo.

726
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,280
Information contained in this
episode of Money of Mine is of

727
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,360
general nature only and does not
take into account the

728
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,960
objectives, financial situation
or needs of any particular

729
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,000
person.
Before making any investment

730
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,080
decision, you should consult
with your financial advisor and

731
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,200
consider how appropriate the
advice is to your objectives,

732
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,400
financial situation and needs.