Will this miner crack a commodity monopoly?

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Rhino money miners.
Another bloody huge deal.

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JD, you're.
Bringing a massive 1.

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And what was I supposed to say
again?

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Well, JJ's got is a $5 billion
gold tie up in Canada.

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Usus the big real billions.
I'm going to the the monopoly in

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the cesium market and it has
some implications.

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There's some some juniors out
there that are having some wins

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off the back of some a
discovery, but I'm gonna go into

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that whole market, which
monopolies are awesome mate.

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They're very cool and rare in
our industry.

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They they don't have it very
often.

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So that's true.
And another.

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Big gold deal closer to?
Home talk about this is mate

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could be creating a Kalgoorlie
monopoly.

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Not really, but if.
You can.

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Fit if you're talking.
Monopoly.

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Yours might be a Mayfair.
This is more What are the old

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Kent Rd. possibly.
Oh, right now take it away.

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Equinox caliber tire.
All right, we're going to North

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America for this one.
This is a America's focused deal

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and there was pretty mixed
reactions to it.

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So share price on the Equinox
side, they're the the bigger

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party.
You know that they kind of call

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it a merger, call it whatever
you like, but they're really

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taking out the other party
caliber in an all script deal.

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They were flat and calibres
share price was in for a bit of

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a rough ride.
They ended up peeling off 7%.

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Shareholders weren't all too
chuffed.

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Mate, I saw a lot of deal, a lot
of posts on Twitter, like kind

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of right after this came out and
not a single post was there.

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A happy shareholder on either
side.

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Yeah, so, so negative reaction
on both sides.

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Of course, sort of, you know,
Twitter can be a bit anecdotal.

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You want to piece it together
with the every every sort of bit

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of info you can find.
But I mean, just looking at the

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share price, right, people
aren't happy with with how it's

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sort of gone about, especially
if you're calibre, because

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really it's a, a new premium or
if you want to be generous, a, a

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2% premium take out.
So we'll, we'll get into it.

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There's a, a few interesting
slides in the, the pack that

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they put out.
Equinox shareholders have a, a

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pretty well known share for
Aussie, Aussie listeners to the

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show.
Ross Beatty is the chair of

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Equinox, very well known in
Canadian mining circles.

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And the stock has been on an up
and down ride over the last few

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years.
So they, they put this little

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chart in the deck that they put
out.

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And I think it's a little bit
cheeky because you can see on

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the, the Y axis there, they're
talking about market cap.

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Now, if you actually look at the
share price, it's, it's not

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quite as flattering because you
know, the, the crux of the story

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is that they've had to dilute to
be on this growth journey that

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they're on to, to finance the
development of a lot of

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projects.
We've spoken about Greenstone,

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that's their, that's their big
project.

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I think Maddie was you and I
speaking about when they

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consolidated ownership there,
they took the other 40% that had

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been with Orion Online Finance,
grouped it all together.

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So they were the 100% owner of
that asset.

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Before that, Gold Rd.
We're rumoured to be pretty

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advanced trying to trying to
pick that share up.

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That's right.
Yeah, I remember that.

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Another group of shareholders
that weren't too happy with with

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a potential deal.
In that case, on the caliber

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side of things, you've got a
company that's grown from an

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explorer not all that long ago.
So if you go back just to 2019,

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they're they're an explorer and
through the sequence of doing a

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number of deals, they've become
a pretty handy sized miner.

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So this deal sort of puts their
market cap at Canadian 2.6

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billion, I think US about 1.7.
They've got 3 producing assets

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now and Valentine is their big
growth project that's meant to

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pour first gold in Q2 of this
calendar year.

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So pretty, pretty imminent on
that front. 195,000 oz per annum

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at the initial sort of phase.
And yeah, doing doing studies to

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to scale that one up.
I liked a trading view, highly

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compliments to the change of
colour scale there on the lines

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is that?
It's a funky one, that's.

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Bloody, I don't know, I'm like,
is that my eyes?

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Anyway, cool, just adds that
extra layer to it does matter up

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or down, right?
So let let's talk about the,

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the, the details around the deal
because you know, myself and I'm

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sure a bunch of the Aussie
listeners won't be all that

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familiar with the assets that
we're talking about here.

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But as a combined group, if the
deal goes through, you've got

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non producing mines and a mine
under construction, the one I

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just mentioned in Valentine,
there's question marks around

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Equinoxes, Los Filos.
That's not really factored into

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any of the production
assumptions going forward

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because there's community
related challenges that they're

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experiencing there in in Mexico.
You've got a ten person board to

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start with chaired by Ross
Beatty.

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I'd expect that to be trimmed
down once the deal is sort of

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bedded down.
And I also expect there to be a

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bit of rationalization of the,
the smaller high cost assets in

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the portfolio there.
With regard to the, the deal

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itself, how it's kind of been
structured, I think the, the new

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premium aspect is the, the
logical starting point.

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I mean, hey, it's awesome.
If if you're sort of Equinox

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taken that point of view and
you're happy with everything

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else, great.
Getting a, a company at a, a nil

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premium, that's, that's awesome.
But there's, there's always a

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bit more to it.
The details are that Caliber

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shareholders will get 0.31
Equinox shares per share that

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they hold to the pro forma
ownership will be 65% Equinox,

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35% CXB.
That's that's Calibre and

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standard sort of matching rights
in the conditions of deal, but

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in the conditions of the deal as
well as needing a vote to go

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through.
Similar to when we spoke about

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Kora West Gold, caliber
shareholders need to get behind

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this deal to the tune of 66.6%.
On the other side, Equinox also

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have to vote, but they just need
a simple majority shareholders

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to get that one over the line.
On keep one on the new premium,

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I don't actually, I don't mind
it if they're going to at least

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it's a deal where you're going
to get to, but there's no

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synergies.
And if there's no synergies, I

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don't think it's particularly
appropriate to pay a premium if

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you're not getting like the
synergy value.

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So if you've got no synergies,
no premium, you're doing it for

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scale sake so you can get into
an index and don't pay a

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premium.
And that's that's where you go

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about.
I think that's more defensible

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than paying a premium, to be
honest.

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Yeah, no, 100%.
I agree with you.

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That's pretty much what I'd
written out over the the next 5

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minutes that I was going to chat
through.

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Sorry.
Why do they?

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That's the crux of it.
You, you, you search for

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synergies in the presentation,
you get one hit and it, it feels

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pretty obligatory for them to,
to write it in there.

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But investors ask the question
on the call as well.

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There's no asset synergies.
You might get a a few savings

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here and there on the on the
corporate side of the business,

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but that is not why you're doing
this deal.

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Why do they have to vote both
sides on this case, JD where we

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only have to vote on one side
over here?

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It's a good question I couldn't
answer specifically.

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I'd imagine just because it's a,
a massive deal sort of on, on

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both sides, a big, a big use,
you know, you're, you're issuing

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a substantial amount of capital.
That's why Equinox has to be

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kind of similar.
I guess if you're thinking about

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a massive capital raise near the
company as well on that side of

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it, you need to get shareholder
approval, that type of

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perspective.
There was one feature of the,

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the deal itself, which was
interesting.

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I think it raised a few
eyebrows, this sort of

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concurrent financing that they
speak about.

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It's nothing new to see the
target company get a bit of

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financing to see themselves
through to completion caliber,

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call it insurance, but the the
nature of it sort of stood out.

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So they're going to take in $75
million via unsecured

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convertible notes, 40 million of
which is going to go to Equinox.

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They're going to just eliminate
them.

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Assuming the deal goes through.
The remaining 35 will go to a

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couple different groups, one
being best Core and the other

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being Trip Trinity Capital
Partners.

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Now the the terms of the conduct
are fairly standard five years

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at a premium of 37 1/2%, but
they don't actually mention in

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the presentation anywhere that
there are warrants attached to

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this or options if you're an
Aussie.

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So you only see that in the
announcement in the in the fine

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print that 0.66 warrants are
going to be issued per

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convertible share.
So.

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With a five year term, yeah,
you're getting a really generous

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coupon in addition to the upside
of that that can convertible,

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you know point gold market with
five years of volatility in your

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favour.
And then the warrant, the free

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warrant for every 0.66 kind of
notes you own, like I'd say

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where can I sign myself up for
some of them?

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Yeah.
The the way I kind of came to

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think about it is it, it is what
it is.

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You know that the financiers,
they this always kind of happens

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one way or another.
It's it's not unusual that we

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kind of see this.
It's always a bit more than the

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terms that you read.
There's always a bit more

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compensation going and you've
just got to, if you're the

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mining company, you've just got
to pay the price.

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There's not not too much you can
kind of really do is, is the

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view that I've come to.
I like, I don't like that it's

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not included in in the
presentation.

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I think just kind of be upfront
about it, show it.

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But I mean, if like, yeah, it's,
it's quite a sort of.

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It is unusual for it to like
like a working capital loan from

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the acquirer to the target.
Not unusual.

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It is unusual for there to be
other other parties to that,

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especially when one of those
parties is the financial advisor

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to the acquisition.
I yeah, I I hear you in in this

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specific, in this specific case,
I'm more sort of generalizing

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the point of these sorts of
convertible notes.

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It does always seem like there's
finer print or if it's like a

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pre payment or something like
that, there's always a bit more

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payment.
You know, the the make a deal.

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That one comes to mind where you
had to do a bit more unpacking

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on the on the gold line type
type situation.

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And at the end of the day that
that is the kind of market rate.

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It's not like a straightforward
percentage that you're just kind

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of paying, but that is the the
market rate, whether whether you

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kind of like it or not.
And it's up to the company to

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try and get the most attractive
terms.

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That's just their their job to,
to try and look after the

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interests of shareholders.
What?

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Do you think of what do you
think of Deal, Deal Security

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JDI?
Think there's I think there's a

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small chance of an interloper
coming in to So to start with on

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the on the break fees US 85
million to Equinox or

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145,000,000 to Calibre.
Should the other party be in the

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deal given that there's you know
to new premium, someone could

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kind of come in with a modest
premium, but it's Canadian 2.6

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billion, it's got assets in
America, Canada and Nicaragua.

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Given the scale and the appetite
for that kind of portfolio of

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assets, I think there's a fairly
limited number of other parties

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that would be attracted to that.
There's also a bit of debt which

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you know, I think minimizes the
the interest for a few

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respective buyers.
So you know, despite the fact

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we're in a gold bull market, I
think there's a, a substantial

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focus on returns to
shareholders, not blowing it on

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M&A being disciplined, all these
sorts of things.

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And I think if you sort of
accumulate all of the above

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would have just kind of
mentioned, I think there's

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limited, not not no chance, but
a sort of limited chance that

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somebody's going to have a
swing.

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You know, what I wonder is if
there's actually more appetite

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for the acquirer in this
specific, in this instance and

223
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,200
there is for the target like you
know, was was Equinox actually a

224
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:27,640
much more attractive target than
Calibre and hence path to

225
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,560
survival is to, you know, each
not be eaten.

226
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:31,920
Yeah, interesting train of
thought.

227
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,440
I think the Greenstone and the
Valentine assets, people would

228
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,920
love those two people would love
one of those as well.

229
00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:38,680
If you could get both of them,
that'd be awesome.

230
00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:42,280
But you know, 11 is with each of
the parties, so a bit easier

231
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,480
said than done.
But I call it Valentine for

232
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,160
nothing, Joe.
There's a lot of love there

233
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:47,760
mate.
A lot of love, mate.

234
00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,800
Let's kind of chat about the,
the nature of this.

235
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,080
We've, you know, you mentioned
synergies there, Trev, like

236
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,400
trying to get into the mindset
of Equinox and why you're doing

237
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,200
this deal is an interesting
thought process.

238
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,520
And yeah, in in large part, like
you say, just to become a bigger

239
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,480
company, very simple
prioritizing Canadian answers.

240
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,800
50 plus percent of the NAV is
going to be in Canada.

241
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,720
And Ross Beatty put it super
succinctly on the call.

242
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,600
We want to get big quick.
It's you know, it's that in a

243
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,200
nutshell.
I'll Chuck up a chart here which

244
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,560
speaks to it.
It's a, you know, Maddie, like

245
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:24,320
we kind of joke about it's a
flow of funds game.

246
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,920
The big get bigger.
That's what they're targeting.

247
00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:31,000
And it reminded me of a bit of a
meme that Ali chucked in the

248
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,400
directed special newsletter a
couple weeks ago.

249
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,120
So I kind of compare and
contrast.

250
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,040
One of them is saying the same
thing in corporate speak.

251
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,600
The other one is just in main
form, but for those listening to

252
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,960
the podcast, you've got this
slide where Equinox is showing

253
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,120
all the constituent companies in
the GDX and the GDXJ by market

254
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,200
cap and they group them.
You've got 41 businesses that

255
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,000
are in that one to $4 billion
range.

256
00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:59,480
You've got 8 businesses in the 4
billion to $10 billion range.

257
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,880
And beyond that, beyond $10
billion in market, $10 billion

258
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,800
in market cap, you've got 7
companies.

259
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,240
And what the main just shows is
that when investors come and

260
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,600
they want to invest in gold,
they look at gold, they look at

261
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,200
the gold trust, they look at New
York listed mega cap companies.

262
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:19,560
And there's a very, very sort of
little trickle down in capital

263
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:23,560
to the juniors in the space,
hence the rationale for becoming

264
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,360
a bigger company.
And this issue I see being even

265
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,840
more pronounced in North America
than it is in in Canada.

266
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,440
I think the juniors in Canada
and smaller companies get even

267
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,080
less love than they have been
getting here in Australia.

268
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,840
Is that I know, Do you reckon
they're paying a bit for Ross

269
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,160
Beattie?
He's he's like that name like

270
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,760
you play zero premium, but you
get Ross Beattie.

271
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:46,880
That's the Canadian market,
right?

272
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,760
That you've got to have one of
those names attached.

273
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,520
To it like they yeah, bloody
Rick rules always.

274
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,720
Oh, Ross.
He's always talks about Lundeens

275
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,520
and Ross Beattie and it's the
brand that comes with it.

276
00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,720
Yeah, I think there's.
I think there's always value in

277
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,280
that.
Yeah, we're, we're susceptible

278
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,280
to it in Australia.
You know, you got the Clarky

279
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:08,800
outrageous, you've got you got
rally, you got bill.

280
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,200
These guys attract a premium
valuation, but you know, it's

281
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,200
like you're stapling it to the
presentation in in Canada.

282
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,120
Like it.
You need a promoter in Canada,

283
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,080
yeah.
And it's almost a necessary

284
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:21,600
function of that market for some
reason.

285
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,760
Yeah, Friedland, probably
another one we can mention there

286
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,640
as well.
On the the Canadian side of

287
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,000
things, we've got to talk about
the the cheapness or the the

288
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,480
value of the deal.
I think would be a bit remiss

289
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,840
to, to not speak about it.
They're not paying a premium.

290
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,320
As I mentioned that that kind of
helps on cap IQ.

291
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,040
You can see 9 analysts cover
caliber.

292
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:47,240
They sort of peg the, the pay
NAV right now at .75 times.

293
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,000
And you know, there's, there's
development risk in that

294
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,320
business.
You, you sort of look at the,

295
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,600
the group of peers, it's not
totally out of place.

296
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,200
You look at Equinox, they're
trading at .73 times.

297
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,000
So very, very similar ballpark
despite it being a bit of a bee

298
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,440
of business and then slightly
different position producing

299
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,880
more Oz and all those sorts of
things.

300
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,560
But I think that just sort of
hammers home that price is not

301
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,160
why they're doing this deal.
Why the shareholders pissed off

302
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,280
me?
But I'll try and summarize it

303
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,800
from two different perspectives
because you've got shareholders

304
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,280
pissed off on, on both sides of
the aisle here.

305
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,080
And I'll just try and summarize
their their frustration as I

306
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,840
kind of see it.
On the Equinox side, you've got

307
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,600
Greenstone, the big project
coming online.

308
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,760
It's it's ramping up right now.
And I think there was a sort of

309
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,360
expectation amongst investors
that this would come with a de

310
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,520
risking of the business.
It would come with a

311
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,960
deleveraging of the business as
cash flow ramps up.

312
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,000
And, you know, that would come
in tandem with a rewrite in the

313
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,600
share price.
So, you know, tying that in with

314
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,840
the view that the timing just
wasn't right.

315
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,880
Why not do this in future when
you can get better bang for your

316
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,360
buck?
That ties in with the yeah, you

317
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,120
know, a talking point on
dilution.

318
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,800
You got to do more dilution at
this share price then if you

319
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,000
were to, to rewrite, you're also
getting exposure to places like

320
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,520
Nicaragua.
And if you're an investor, maybe

321
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,800
that's not what you signed up
for, you know, maybe that's not

322
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,080
why you're there.
I, you know, I understand that,

323
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:21,080
that perspective on the, on the
CXB side of things, the, the

324
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,880
real frustration, the real
question that you're asking as

325
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,040
an investor is why have you
agreed to sell the company for

326
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,000
no premium?
You know, you, you want that

327
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,240
standard 3035% premium if
someone's going to take you out,

328
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,160
which this kind of is at the end
of the day, that's the big one

329
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,520
people want answered.
And maybe it is valid that the

330
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:45,320
growth potential being combined
with Equinox is, is maximized.

331
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,840
Maybe it's better than if you're
just going at solo Valentin is,

332
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,320
you know, coming online this
quarter or next quarter.

333
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,960
As I sort of mentioned, maybe
the project risk is better

334
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,960
handled in a bigger organization
where you're sort of spreading,

335
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,160
spreading that risk across more
cash flows, more assets.

336
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,440
So you see that in the in the
con note as well, like there's a

337
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,040
no for better or worse, there's
a bit of a top up financing

338
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,000
going on there so that they
don't have to dilute more in the

339
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,440
future.
They are dilute like there's a

340
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,560
dilution effect from urging 2
businesses.

341
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,200
But yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

342
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,880
So it it, it's open-ended.
We'll see as as ramp up goes on,

343
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:23,119
we'll see if they do attract
more generalists, more

344
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,920
institutional investors where
the management is right in their

345
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,080
judgement that this is the the
way to attract more capital and

346
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,120
better you know share price
accretion.

347
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:37,040
Rewrite's an interesting one.
It's like a recession.

348
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:38,840
It's not like there's one day
shit.

349
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,560
This is all happening.
We're having a rewrite right

350
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,280
now.
Like it's like, is it?

351
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,200
It's never an instantaneous
thing, is it?

352
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,400
Is it when you say improv people
that you know the definition?

353
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,960
Like are you saying a rewrite
like saying we're gonna

354
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,680
outperform over a year for
instance, post this happening

355
00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,160
cause the story's better at once
greenstone come online or like

356
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,080
this rewrite thing isn't an
instantaneous event, is it?

357
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,160
I think if a rewrite is multiple
expansion, so like maybe, maybe

358
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,840
beforehand you were trading it
like three times EBITDA, you

359
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,600
know, a year from now you're
trading at four or five times

360
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,800
EBITDA.
Yeah, better appreciation for

361
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,400
what you've got.
Yeah, kind of just you go better

362
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,840
in a year's time.
Yeah, Effectively, yeah.

363
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,760
It's like a recession.
It's like there wasn't a

364
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,280
recession.
It's like the backward.

365
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,400
Looking thing, or maybe there
was one back then.

366
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,080
Yeah, it wasn't very good.
I holy shit, it's a recession.

367
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:27,880
Yeah, today.
No, absolutely.

368
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,480
So to, to put it all in a
nutshell, if, if I'm going to

369
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,320
give kind of my, my thoughts on
the deal from a strategic angle,

370
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,920
I get it, you know, growing the
business in an absolute sense,

371
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,520
index inclusion, trading
liquidity, all that sort of

372
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,600
stuff, low cost answers in
Canada, you know, maybe trimming

373
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,240
the portfolio in time, spreading
the risk over more assets.

374
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,920
So I understand that on a value
basis, I'm I'm not quite there.

375
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,120
You know, you're paying in stock
for a company that's trading at

376
00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,800
a kind of similar, maybe
slightly richer, multiple, not

377
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,000
super earnings accretive if
you're, you know, looking,

378
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,880
looking into the details there.
But in all honesty, the the

379
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,000
company is not trying to sell
you on that.

380
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,160
That's not how they're packaging
up this deal.

381
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,360
They're not talking about per
share metrics whatsoever.

382
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,280
It's all about getting bigger.
It's all about being a leading

383
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,560
Canadian, the gold miner.
It's about increasing

384
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,640
attractiveness to generalist
investors, to big institutions.

385
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,760
So from my perspective, I think
it's a bit counter intuitive if

386
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,640
you're coming from the lens of,
you know, a value investing

387
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,040
orientation.
It's not quite my style, but no,

388
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,800
there's there's good odds it it
works.

389
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,040
So we'll see if they are getting
more bang for the buck, you

390
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,680
know, getting more value on the
answers they're producing, more

391
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,200
value on the dollars they're
earning in in due course.

392
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,120
There you go.
Go international.

393
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,360
That's it.
Bloody YouTube and a.

394
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,800
YouTube's loving the
international stories.

395
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,480
They fucking love it, right?
Next up, the Cesium Balter, and

396
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:04,240
I won't give any a lie.
There's there's a stock on the

397
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,280
TSXV chance that is had a
stellar run this year.

398
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,360
It's it's power metals, it's up
to 213% year to date.

399
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:13,520
I think if you look at it on a
one year basis, it's up over

400
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:19,160
400%, which gives this little
company a market cap of 212

401
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,720
million Canadian dollars at the
time of recording.

402
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,480
It's it's on, it's on the back
of the discovery, you know,

403
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,560
particularly niche commodity,
which is cesium.

404
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,720
Now cesium is a, is a commodity.
I, I actually took a bit of

405
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,160
interest in this commodity late
last year because I met a fellow

406
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,160
who was telling me how Sino mine
has a monopoly on the cesium

407
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,400
market.
And that got me really curious

408
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,800
because monopolies are these
beautiful but rare phenomenons

409
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,520
in, in commodity markets where
they can surface is though is in

410
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,040
pretty niche minerals which have
a small market size.

411
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,920
And cesium market fits that bill
absolutely completely.

412
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,280
This market is super opaque for
what it's worth.

413
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,920
So these, these numbers I'm
about to throw out there are

414
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,440
susceptible to being very wrong
and there's a lot of variation

415
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,240
in the numbers you'll find when
you doing research on the size

416
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,360
of this market.
But, you know, for all intents

417
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:05,320
and purposes, my, my research
estimate of the size of the

418
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,920
market, it's kind of being
serviced by, you know, I mean a

419
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,200
20,000 tons of, of cesium
polycyte.

420
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,800
Also, I'm talking about the
actual ore tons being mined,

421
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,640
which those that ore is
processed into a a variety of

422
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,560
different midstream products.
The main one or most popular one

423
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,280
is, is cesium formite, which is
actually a brine used in the oil

424
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,160
and gas industry as a drilling
fluid.

425
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,640
But there's a bunch of other
types of kind of, you know,

426
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,200
midstream products including
cesium carbonate, cesium

427
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,920
chloride, cesium nitrate, cesium
hydroxide, cesium sulfate.

428
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,560
Is that a?
Is that a screen grab from

429
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,400
ChatGPT?
Yeah, but I've heard it in a

430
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:44,320
podcast too.
So, so I've read some some

431
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,040
estimates that the the annual
value of all of these cesium

432
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:53,920
products is, is ballpark US $340
million per annum.

433
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,280
OK.
It's a small, it's remarkably,

434
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:57,720
it's a small, small market,
right?

435
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,360
There's a lot of variability in
these estimates of market size.

436
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,040
I'm sure the only, the only
party that really knows the

437
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,600
answer to this question is
actually signed in mind.

438
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,360
But regardless, the market, it's
not, it's not a huge market in

439
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:12,560
terms of value, but what's more,
it's, it's pretty technical too,

440
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,560
because the, there's the
refining component of the of the

441
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,760
various cesium products.
You got to have some technical

442
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,520
expertise in order to turn the
ore into all of those various

443
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,760
different sort of, you know,
extreme or downstream products

444
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,920
that I talked about.
The majority of the world,

445
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,320
cesium comes from one single
mine in Canada.

446
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,200
It's called the Tanko mine.
Yes.

447
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,680
Who owns tanko sign a mine?
Who would have thought?

448
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,680
Who would have thought?
I got a picture here of what the

449
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,960
mine looks like and it's, it's
obviously it's, it's kind of

450
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,160
remarkable when you look at it,
you can see these giant pillars

451
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,240
holding up the roof of, of, of
the underground.

452
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,760
And that's because it's actually
under a lake.

453
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:49,920
Yeah, right.
It's like it's like a room and

454
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,120
pillar joby but the the rooms
are much bigger than the bloody

455
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:57,920
pillars.
The harder you want to take the

456
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,160
rib pillars out at some stage.
Yes, that's buddy.

457
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,960
That's where friggin Sandvik
ground support comes in.

458
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,800
See the gaps there?
They could just pepper all in

459
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,200
between the pillars.
Yes with Sandvik ground support.

460
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:15,680
Just to make sure it holds up.
I would propose the new Sandvik

461
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,400
dynamic bolt.
So it's normally, for now, hear

462
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,280
me out.
It's normally for high stress

463
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,480
environments.
You think of all the boats and

464
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,840
shit going along the lake and
the bloody the tides and the

465
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,160
bloody, just the turbulent
nature.

466
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,440
Pretty stressful.
That is a friggin dynamic

467
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,120
environment and that's where
this could friggin come in.

468
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:37,680
So this is perfect for the
turbulent lake water and take

469
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,080
out the sebic dynamic bolt.
Mate, these bolts have been drop

470
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,760
tested.
They've had the living shit drop

471
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,040
tested out of them.
I'll show you a video here.

472
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,520
Just hear the bank.
Like at the bloody Wasam testing

473
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:53,760
facility.
You know it's good.

474
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,240
And mate, anything that comes
out of Wasam, you know, it's the

475
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,480
best.
So that is right.

476
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,920
They they they could go down the
road of call on this the

477
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,320
dynamics bolt.
As I said, I reckon we could get

478
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,640
a better name for it, like D for
dynamic.

479
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:12,880
The logical name for this bolt
is the Derek Bolt in order of

480
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,720
the great Derek heard.
I propose the name of this is

481
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,520
the Derek Bolt coming out the
bloody look at it, the paddles,

482
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,120
the friggin springs to mix, the
resin D bonded in the centre,

483
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:28,440
the perfect Derek, the dynamic
bolt.

484
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,840
We got a petition going.
I didn't change.

485
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,760
Derek the dynamic bolt.
The Bolt innovation at this

486
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,080
company mate.
I'm just, I'm impressed.

487
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,240
Oh mate, well there's obviously
been like issues previously with

488
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,240
dynamic bolts of the mixing of
the resins.

489
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,960
So what are they put the mixing
springs on the top and the on

490
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,800
the collar and the toe?
Because that's what Sambic does.

491
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:47,920
It's a company that listens
mate.

492
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,520
Oh mate, so OK well once after
they go and they are they

493
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,200
planning to extract these
pillars?

494
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,720
They, they actually, they
actually do like so, you know,

495
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,760
these, these pillars are what
they do really want to mine, but

496
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,040
they're because there's a lake
on top.

497
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,880
Their plan is to, you know,
drain or divert the lake so that

498
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,840
they can actually just open pit
to access the, the, the pillars

499
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,240
eventually.
But crown supports another great

500
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,480
alternative.
I think they, the, the way that

501
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,960
sign of mine actually got their
hands on this mine is super

502
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,640
interesting to me.
Like they, they bought this in

503
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,520
2019.
They paid $135 million US for

504
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,440
the operation.
And, and, and, and, and imagine,

505
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,200
imagine paying 135 million US to
get a monopoly on a critical

506
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,280
metal.
Like it's just an, an, an

507
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,280
amazing deal.
I, I think this was 2019, right

508
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,000
before the West just started to
crack down on Chinese investment

509
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,000
into critical minerals.
And instead of objecting to the

510
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,800
deal, which would certainly
happen today, the, the Canadian

511
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,400
regulator approved it in the
minimum time frame of 45 days.

512
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,960
But that that approval didn't
didn't age particularly well

513
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,320
because within a few years the
Canadian government started to

514
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,640
put the squeeze on some of
mine's ability to, you know,

515
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,840
invest and expand.
One of the orders that the the

516
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:03,440
the Chinese government save to
sign of mine was ordering it to

517
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,840
sell its equity stake and off
take in none other than power

518
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,640
metals.
That equity stake that that

519
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,000
equity stake in power metals is
the very equity stake that ASX

520
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,920
listed Winsome resources ended
picking end up picking up.

521
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,480
They paid 2,000,000 bucks for
7.5 million shares and 7.5

522
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,160
million warrants, which were
which are well in the money

523
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,920
today and they they tipped in a
bit more later on.

524
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,680
I'll get to the implications for
for winsome shortly.

525
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,360
The power metals they're case
like project has come across

526
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:36,920
some high grade cesium polysite,
which is yeah, what what you're

527
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,560
looking for and it's near
surface it's yeah, decent grade.

528
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,200
So everything is promising and
but if you think of the the

529
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,600
concentrated supply of this
critical better production in

530
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,600
the in the hands of the Chinese,
yeah, the, the stocks had a a

531
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,320
really strong run like we talked
about.

532
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,400
But it's early days and there's,
there's plenty to play out to

533
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,920
see if the, the market cap can
can today can justify the, the

534
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:56,120
potential.
But that's the nature of

535
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,240
discoveries in our our industry.
Yeah, you know, the, the share

536
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,600
price will run, but there's
uncertainty, there's upside.

537
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:03,920
You're trying to find the middle
ground.

538
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,560
And with commodities that are
monopolised in some part of the

539
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,520
processing, like we, we do have
here with the, with the, and the

540
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,720
reliance on the Chinese power
metals, they've got their work

541
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,240
cut out to sort of forge their
own pathway.

542
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,080
And yeah, I think it's, that's,
that's all ahead of them.

543
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,160
But the whole thing is, is
particularly interesting for ASX

544
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,200
listed Winsome because the value
of their stake in the company is

545
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,000
now valued at 48 million
Australian dollars.

546
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,920
Winsome's market cap is only
$76,000,000.

547
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,800
And they'll also have $34
million in cash after the raise

548
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,360
they just did.
So you can do a fully diluted EV

549
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,320
of Winsome and back out a pretty
tiny EV for that company right

550
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,880
now, which unfortunately speaks
to just the state of the lithium

551
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,320
market.
Yeah, Jesus Christ.

552
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,080
Pretty negative AP.
Huh.

553
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,640
It's yeah, I think fully diluted
it's slightly positive, yeah.

554
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,800
Oh yeah, interesting.
Tell, tell us a bit more.

555
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,200
I've got a few sort of
questions, but sure you've done

556
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,920
a bit of digging on sources of
cesium and and just the the kind

557
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,600
of market in general.
So one of the one of the claims

558
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,920
I read when I was researching
this market is, is there are

559
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,600
only three minds globally that
have ever produced cesium.

560
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,240
Tanko being the, you know, the
dominant one, obviously, which

561
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,720
I've I've talked about.
The other two cesium mines are

562
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,040
fascinating for different
reasons.

563
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,440
The first one is Bakeda, which
JD, you and I are a bit more

564
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,320
familiar with after a trip to
Africa.

565
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,200
This is better known as one of
the lithium mines in Zimbabwe,

566
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,960
which has a lot of pedalite
lipidalite, but also cesium

567
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,520
polycyte.
And guess who owns this mine?

568
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,080
Cynomine.
None other than Cynomine.

569
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,080
Of course, the other mine,
possibly a surprise to you, but

570
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,280
maybe not given what we
discussed before we started

571
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,680
recording.
It's a mine called Sinclair, and

572
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,040
Sinclair Cesium deposit was
discovered in 2016, delineated

573
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,600
in 2017, then completely mined
out in 2018 and early 2019.

574
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,200
Was X strata?
No, it was a company called

575
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,800
Pioneer, which became essential,
which is now developed.

576
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,400
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, right.

577
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:00,960
Yes.
Oh, Sinclair.

578
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,320
Sinclair deposit, No Burncard
had a contract at Sinclair,

579
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:05,840
Yeah.
Where, where is the?

580
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,920
Deposit.
So this is this is like Pioneer.

581
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,800
It's like 60 kilometres South of
Norsemen.

582
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,960
Oh it is.
Sinclair Deposit is part of

583
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,080
Pioneer.
Sinclair is, is is, Yeah, it's,

584
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,880
I mean, it's tiny.
It's completely mined out.

585
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,760
And obviously the market size is
small as well.

586
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,000
But yeah, that's where, that's
where this where caesium was,

587
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,640
was developed.
Yeah, it was in there.

588
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,320
It was in develops.
I think it was a quarterly or

589
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,440
something talking about the
potential cesium deposit.

590
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,160
I'd Zinclair, yeah.
I've read through the the scheme

591
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,080
docs just when I was researching
this piece to see any talk of

592
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,440
that cesium deposit and
everything, but yeah, that there

593
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,400
there was AI didn't see anything
that kind of talked about future

594
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,320
opportunities or whatever but
yeah who knows there might be

595
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,120
yeah, might be more defined
there, but I'd.

596
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,440
Be curious to hear from them.
It was used to be.

597
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,800
Was there a Sinclair nickel
mine?

598
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,520
Maybe.
Unless it's the same fucking

599
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,840
mine.
I'd be curious to know from any

600
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:08,080
any geos given the sort of
relationship with lithium type

601
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:08,920
type.
Water bodies.

602
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,680
Sinclair was where is it?
No, it's obviously it was.

603
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,200
Obviously it was West 81 K is
West of Leonora.

604
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,120
That was the Sinclair nickel
mine owned by Xstrata.

605
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,440
So this is a different, Yeah,
that's why.

606
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,680
What I did come across when I
was researching this market is

607
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,480
it's actually much harder to
find than than spot.

608
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,680
You mean because you don't have
the outcropping to go off when

609
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,400
you're actually exploring for,
yes, your cesium deposits?

610
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,240
Very small market.
Fuck we we found out how easy it

611
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,040
is to find Spodumain because
friggin everyone found it.

612
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,280
Just wait for a price rise and
get everyone.

613
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,400
Looking at the predicament we're
in, sorry, it was very easy to

614
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,920
find pigmentites.
Some of them were spodumain

615
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,920
dummy ass on one that wasn't
very good bloody.

616
00:30:59,000 --> 00:30:59,720
Really interesting.
Very.

617
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,680
Interesting, buddy.
Right, I'll, I'll Billy bought

618
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,400
it.
Mightn't have been about the

619
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,400
lithium, could have been the
cesium.

620
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,320
You know what I think if it, if
it.

621
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,320
Ends up going off.
You'll definitely climb it, I'll

622
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,720
know that.
Before this, the only use case

623
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,040
for cesium that I knew about and
obviously it's used in oil

624
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,320
drilling, bronze or oil drilling
way more than this, but was

625
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,000
like, you know, the atomic
clocks that are so precise,

626
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,800
that's like on the decay of a
cesium Adam or something like

627
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,240
that.
That's, you know, it's all I'd

628
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,760
ever come across Cesium.
Back there you go.

629
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,280
Wow, well they wanted home
'cause me freaking battery keeps

630
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,360
running out and then the kids
are late for school all the time

631
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,760
'cause my clocks wrong.
I need some cesium all.

632
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:40,560
All our clocks are synced to
him.

633
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,200
Alright, let's go bloody, let's
go local.

634
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,680
We've got Black Cat grabbing the
Lakewood biggest not not the

635
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,120
best cast.
Bloody secret.

636
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,040
It was in the IFR that West Gold
were selling it.

637
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,600
Blackout have picked it up.
Obviously all the bloody look at

638
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,320
the tenants they got boys.
The Kalis now feeding into the

639
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,440
postage stamp.
That is bloody Lakewood mate.

640
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,360
Oh look at those tenements.
K drill doesn't start with AK

641
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,000
for no reason.
It is Kalgoorlie drilling and by

642
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,120
within the proximity to
Kalgoorlie you want to you want

643
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,360
to drill the shit out of
anything near Kalgoorlie K drill

644
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,840
first call.
Like not even this is like

645
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,360
central gold fields like mate.
First call, second call, last

646
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,920
call.
K Drill.

647
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,120
I won't mention what they'll get
in trouble for mentioning that

648
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,640
company they get they're too
precious to K.

649
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,600
They sponsored the rou cocktail
function.

650
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,520
They did.
I saw you had a brew with.

651
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,440
They're now bringing the K, the
Kalgoorlie Goldfield support to

652
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,320
Perth.
Like say they're giving back to

653
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,480
to WA, give back to K drill by
letting them blackout.

654
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,080
Let them drill the shit out of
all those bloody tenements out

655
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,760
to the east there by the the
imagine the Cal E contract.

656
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,000
Everything they know at
Paulson's is cause of Ron

657
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,080
O'Sullivan anyway because they
drilled that back in the day.

658
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,080
It's a connection.
Pay back Ron O'Sullivan by

659
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,760
letting K drill drill those
tenements.

660
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,280
Anyway, let's get into the deal
that was I think it's worst kept

661
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:13,160
secret that Westgar was selling
the Lakewood mill Black cat were

662
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,160
the last company named in in
that article they went through.

663
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,680
There was God word on the
decline that northern star with

664
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,360
had picked it up because it's
obviously a bus to I'll bring up

665
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,280
the thing picture here.
It's like a postage stamp right

666
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,960
next to the Super pit waste
dumps effectively.

667
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,640
So you know, it'd be Norton star
might like it to extend their

668
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:36,920
waist dumps.
They might.

669
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,760
There's word on the decline.
There's an all body under it.

670
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,800
Like who who knows?
But anyway, so this is pretty,

671
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,760
this is pretty bloody big news
for black cat and it really sets

672
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,800
them up for their the Cal E
project.

673
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,920
So like, because the Cal E Black
cat was Cal E like that was the

674
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:59,560
big, that was their development
pathway before Paulson's and

675
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,120
coyote and coyote like that was.
And then that sort of got

676
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,720
pushed, pushed to the side and
then the focus was on Paulson's.

677
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,880
But now, like, we'll go through
this and you know, this is, you

678
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,920
know, doesn't a freaking good
gold price help?

679
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:21,000
When we first talked about Black
cat, talking about the the

680
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,520
gabbro vine mineral resource and
all that.

681
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,199
Yeah, yeah.
And thinking, God, it's going to

682
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:27,400
be frigging hard to mine low
grade.

683
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,840
You know, gold was 2900 an ounce
Aussie then and we're now

684
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,840
sitting at 4600.
So it's amazing how everything

685
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,239
has changed so quickly in gold.
So look and what they've got

686
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:44,120
today and this Cal E is like,
you make your own judgement, but

687
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,760
it's like there is a lot of
friggin Oz they can punch

688
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,719
through here now.
So they've picked it up off West

689
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,120
gold.
Westcott obviously got it from

690
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:56,040
the Corolla deal 85,000,000
consideration 70 million is in

691
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,520
cash staged over nine months and
15,000,000 Black Cat shares at

692
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,840
$0.76.
So they're already up on the

693
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,200
script.
So 1,000,000 deposit 24 mil by

694
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,320
around 31st of March, 20 mil
30th of June, another 20 five

695
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,080
30th November this year.
So they've got currently got 50

696
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,120
because they did the big cap
rise to sort of negate all the

697
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,200
debt needed for the Paulson's
refurbishment.

698
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,080
So that 56 mil in the Kitty by
the end of December quarter.

699
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,800
So they're looking at you know,
they've already they've they've

700
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,360
been toll trading the gold at
Paddington already.

701
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:38,480
They've got the JV with MMS,
free ad for MMS and Bob bloody

702
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,320
salt pusher doing the haulage
for it as well.

703
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:44,040
God, I did the two wrong
sponsors yesterday.

704
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,560
This is not there.
So bloody God, if I'm going to

705
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,400
give it away to anyone, I'll
give it to them too.

706
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,920
So the, you know, the cash is
starting to come in the door.

707
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,160
They're mining or at the Myre.
They've poured first gold at

708
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,240
Paulsen's.
That's all starting to ramp up

709
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,720
and they're saying that they'll
be able to, you know, pay this

710
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:07,560
off with operational cash flows.
Got toll trading arrangement

711
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,800
with West Gold.
So it's a 1.2 billion tonne

712
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,600
plant.
West gold can toll trade 200,000

713
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,720
tonne a year for the next two
years.

714
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:21,480
They have the option too.
So potentially they can make

715
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,400
revenue from the toll trading
while Cal E ramps up if needed.

716
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,920
Like so you think of like not
that they'd do this but

717
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,680
hypothetically a 1.2 million
tonne mill they could toll trade

718
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,440
at 50 bucks a tonne.
So you could bring in 60 mill

719
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,960
revenue a year.
Mine is all the cost just from

720
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,680
using that as a toll trading
plan.

721
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:45,440
Yeah, the benefit to them now
because they're gold sale, so

722
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,440
they'll sell on the gold to
Paddington Norton Goldfields.

723
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,160
With that, the you have to agree
on a gride.

724
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,000
So there'd be like, you know,
top cuts and everything.

725
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,400
You have to agree on recovery
processing costs and everything.

726
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:03,400
And now I have full control,
full upside to that process of

727
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:04,840
bringing the gold to their
plants.

728
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,400
So obviously coughing up cash
for that privilege, I would

729
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:14,880
imagine for that.
So it's AJV with four in regards

730
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,680
to the JV with MMS.
So they have to blackout, have

731
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:26,640
to 1st repay the development
costs to MMS, which I assume is,

732
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,240
you know, the pre everything,
the cost of everything to 1st

733
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:31,720
all.
That's how I interpret

734
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:36,160
development costs.
Once I pay that back, Black cat

735
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:41,760
then get the next 30 mil of cash
flows and then following that

736
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:47,600
it's the JV, which I think is
pretty sure it's 3070 thirty 30%

737
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,960
MMS, 70% black cat.
Profit share after that, yeah.

738
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,440
So now I was showing with this,
I think it's be better for both

739
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,680
parties.
They get the upside of the

740
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,800
processing like upside of grade
recovery and everything should

741
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,920
generate cash quicker on a
tolling arrangement because

742
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,160
you're not paying to trade it or
you're not selling it to Norton.

743
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:11,840
They don't, they don't buy the
gold at a loss.

744
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:20,040
So it's it's good there.
So, so I'll be thinking and the

745
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,200
whole thing is right, can they
will all that cash be enough to,

746
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,240
you know, pay these stage
payments for the year because

747
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:29,680
it's a bit of cash going out the
door this year they've.

748
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:31,720
Gone.
To be clear, it's not that long

749
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,720
a timeline.
No, no, it's not it's not not

750
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:36,400
production based, it's time
based.

751
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,760
So you know, it's looking,
looking with what they've gotten

752
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,000
gold revenue coming in should
like, should be able to do it.

753
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,440
But and you know, they're
unhedged and everything.

754
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,200
So the, the thing about the
Lakewood thing, I mean, you've,

755
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,600
you've chatted about it before
is the lifespan and that is the

756
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,320
question.
So they've just put a, you can

757
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,400
see here the big picture, the
it's on a bit of a postage chair

758
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,280
stamp.
They got a brand new tailings

759
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,880
dam there.
But the, the exact time

760
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,240
lifespan, I know I've heard many
different versions.

761
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:13,080
I've heard fight once they've
got all the lifts, they approve,

762
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,800
they've got approved.
It's a 5.

763
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,280
They've got five years worth of
tailings they can put in there.

764
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,960
Yeah, it might be a bit
confusing to people listening.

765
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,120
We're not talking about the mine
itself, we're talking about the

766
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,800
lifespan of the plant because of
the limited space to put your

767
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,440
tailings.
There's nowhere else to put a

768
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,120
tailing stand so and they can
you can only it's approved to I

769
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,440
think lift I'm not sure what it
is.

770
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,320
It's usually what 4 lifts or
something.

771
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,000
As in pretty much build the
walls high so you can put more

772
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,520
tailings in of her.
There's possibility of going

773
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,560
beyond that to nine years.
I don't know if.

774
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,640
There was talk at the pub.
There was talk at the pub and it

775
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,160
might have been incentivised
talk, don't know, but five

776
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,080
years, if we work on five years
because you look at the ground

777
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,280
they've got around for the
Calais, there's obviously

778
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,360
Boundary Mario which they got at
the moment, they got that

779
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,160
fingers, fortune, everything to
the South.

780
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:12,080
So there's and you, you look at
like collectively so. 1.2

781
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,160
million tonne mill, let's just
say 1,000,000 tonne a year.

782
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,200
What what's there there it and
it's got a fixed lifespan.

783
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,880
It's like this is like what the
direction of this company is

784
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,800
like hypothetically, you don't
want to tolerate too much

785
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,840
because that's taken off your or
that you want to put through in

786
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,640
that five years.
Let's say you've only got five

787
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,640
years worth of milling to do
because if you like, if you add

788
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,120
up their resource like look at
Myre Underground, Majestic

789
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,600
Underground, Trojan resource and
fingers open pits, there's

790
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,440
that's over 5 million tonne at
1,000,000 tonne a year.

791
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:51,400
So it's like they've got enough
resource at the moment to fill

792
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,640
that mill over that time.
So but the pressure will be on

793
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,440
will they have enough cash flow
coming in to pay that without

794
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,920
raising, without having to, you
know, toll trade other people's

795
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,840
dirt to bring in a bit of
revenue to satisfy that.

796
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,400
So I think that's where the
balance of what their journey is

797
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,840
going to be to get all these
things into production, make the

798
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,720
cash flow because they don't
want to.

799
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,800
Yeah, they you don't want to get
into a place like shit, we can't

800
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,760
use the mill anymore in five
years time.

801
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,680
When you talk.
Or if it goes to nine years,

802
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,440
it's all good.
When you talk trade, are you and

803
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,960
total trading contracts
typically structured as like a,

804
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:27,520
you know, a dollar per tonne of
ore?

805
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,320
Do you get some of the upside of
like of the, Because let's say

806
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,720
if if that was total trading
stuff that was three times the

807
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:34,520
grade of theirs and they're
getting a share of the upside in

808
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,200
the in that person's ore, then
it actually does make sense to

809
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,960
prioritize someone else's ore if
it's three times a grade.

810
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,640
Depends on yeah.
It depends if it's a ore

811
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,440
purchase agreement like if
they're.

812
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,400
On the terms, yeah.
So like you know, I'll bring up

813
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,120
West W Golds and new merchants
and one I think it's at the

814
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,040
bottom Ding Ding, Ding for
allergy.

815
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,360
So there.
So there I think it works out

816
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:04,040
effectively lot they have to pay
30 to $45.00 of processing cost

817
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,560
per tonne which gets taken off
the gold price and all that.

818
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,480
So it works out, they get I
think new purchase and get 83%

819
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,600
of the gold price.
But if the gold price is high,

820
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,040
as you said, they're getting
more bang for Bucky out of West

821
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,760
gold are getting more bang for
Bucky out of the 17 percent, the

822
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,160
17 percent of a higher gold
price is worth more.

823
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,560
So that that's for an all
purchase agreement.

824
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,720
If it's a like a toll treating
agreement, it might be we'll

825
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:30,840
send you all the ore.
It's frigging we campaign and

826
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,360
we'll charge you 50 bucks a
tonne and you get the gold out.

827
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,720
So they're not they're stopping
all their all, but they're

828
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:39,920
trading your all in one parcel.
So you know, 50 bucks a tonne

829
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,360
for a whole year.
There's 60 Miller revenue.

830
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,640
So yeah, all.
Depends how yeah structure it.

831
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,760
I wouldn't depending on price or
this would be a thumbs up, but I

832
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,720
would imagine you would make
more money long term trading all

833
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:58,200
of your own ore instead of
having an arrangement with

834
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,720
another company for their role.
And the, the, the value of the

835
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:04,440
infrastructure, like even though
it's got the limited lifespan,

836
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,120
I'm pretty sure the dynamics and
category at the moment are like,

837
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:08,400
OK, where else can you total
trade?

838
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,600
Or if you a lot, a lot of random
projects are suddenly in the

839
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,520
money, right?
Yep.

840
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,600
As long as you can get your
process at a meal somewhere that

841
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,000
is economic to track to.
Well this is it's in a good

842
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,040
location, plenty of things
attractable to it and capacity

843
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:23,920
at meals.
You can actually total trade at

844
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,160
close to 0 like people have been
doing it at Paddington.

845
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,320
Like that's because FMR which is
typically where you go to to to

846
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,560
Toll Tree fucking booked out by
Northern Star.

847
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,680
Yeah, yeah.
And then I suppose there's, you

848
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,280
know typical supply and demand.
It mightn't be if there's

849
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,960
nowhere to put it, people might
pay 60 or $70.00 a tonne, I'm

850
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:45,120
not sure.
Totally, totally.

851
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,480
So they might, they might
sacrifice production later on

852
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,640
and take a bit of sugar.
But then it'd be interesting to

853
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:56,640
see as the KCGM expansion ramps
up how that yeah, you know,

854
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,880
supply dot to make the.
Capacity maybe, yeah.

855
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,280
Yeah.
And then if that, like imagine

856
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,560
if someone then picks up Command
and Bell that gets taken out of

857
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:06,320
Golden Star.
And then so I think there's a

858
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,680
lot of, there's a journey of
processing to happen in and

859
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,880
around Kalgoorlie.
It's lots of expansion that's

860
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:13,720
happening too, yeah.
Like.

861
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,840
Yeah.
Evolutions still expanding and

862
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,560
and Digeon's massively
expanding, yeah.

863
00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:23,680
Yeah, like we'll like I think
Silver Lake have got a pretty

864
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,880
big between the stockpiles and
all the pits they're bringing

865
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:28,440
on.
Like Mount Mongers probably got

866
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,480
a bit of life there.
Like does that come into the

867
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,600
mix?
Like does Jubilee get

868
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,880
refurbished by someone?
Does Northern Star get rid of

869
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,080
that?
Like there's my whiff.

870
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,760
We should just do a meal
episode.

871
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,480
Can't Storis is on the board
now.

872
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,360
You probably can't do podcasts.
A lot of deals to be done in the

873
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,000
area.
Store it says you're bloody is

874
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,440
Someone Like You that's not on a
board that could come and talk

875
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:52,960
shit on a podcast.
Let us know.

876
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:58,720
So I, I think that whole, I
think it's given him a lot of a

877
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:03,120
bit of bloody bit of power in
the district, like with on a

878
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,520
smaller scale, like being able
to, you know, hold the keys to

879
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,400
processing who's going to
process what.

880
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,600
Like there's a bit of, there's
obviously got a lot of resource

881
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,000
areas to develop out at Calais
there.

882
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,840
So yeah, it's really fucking
looks.

883
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,880
Looks like a bit going on there.
Yeah, and hence West Gold

884
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,560
retaining that optionality, just
getting the first priority case

885
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,520
they want it that 200,000 oz per
annum.

886
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,840
Yeah, smart thing to do if
you're the the seller.

887
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,240
Yes, sorry, 1000 tons forever.
And I suppose it shows like

888
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,240
what's what's this mean for
Westgard?

889
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,360
You could infer that, OK, they
didn't they didn't have enough

890
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,760
dirt to fill both Higginsville
and Lakewood at the moment.

891
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,680
Would do.
I reckon it's it's a win, win,

892
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:47,600
win.
Great.

893
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,000
Great for them because they're
like bloody, they get 7570 mil

894
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,280
cash within the year and they're
already up on the bloody Black

895
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,520
Cat shares, which are escrowed
for 12 months.

896
00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:00,200
Pardon me?
They can roll that into

897
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,440
expanding Higgins Field.
They're talking about expanding

898
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,240
Higgins Field.
Wiser.

899
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,040
For a period of time, they were
they, they they'd switched off

900
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,720
their open pits in the Southern
Goldfields region, West Gold,

901
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:15,880
and now they're coming back on.
So like to the extent they were

902
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,560
fairly constrained, maybe that
was a temporary thing because

903
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:19,800
you didn't have the open pit
feed.

904
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
To your point, it's all about

905
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,960
it.
Makes sense that like is you

906
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,360
know Pantoro going to be on the
on the radar for West Guild to

907
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,240
make more out of that region.
Who?

908
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:35,440
No deal Roadshow just happened.
No deal roadshow like is like if

909
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,880
they expand to 4 million tonne
will astral like they got, you

910
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,040
know, get 1,000,001 to 2,000,000
tonne out of that a year.

911
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,960
Once that pick gets flawed,
probably like that could be the

912
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,440
supplement.
They could really start

913
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,240
consolidating that region.
So it'd be interesting to see

914
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:55,240
what they're if I'll just keep,
I suppose.

915
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:57,040
Would you say in history
sometimes, like when the

916
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:58,920
companies are down, it's like
right, we might as well just

917
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,960
keep bloody pump and script and
do deals and set ourselves up

918
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:03,720
for the future.
Who knows?

919
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,840
Who knows if that's going to be
West Gold's mentality.

920
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,440
So I can't.
But yeah, beta getting beta hunk

921
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,280
on that's.
Getting getting bigger has been

922
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,440
part of the MO for for a while.
Oh, and it's good I didn't, I

923
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,760
didn't realise that.
Like, it's pretty deep, mind.

924
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,280
Yeah, you were saying down at
Beta Hunt.

925
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,280
Yeah, Fletcher where they're, I
was in.

926
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,240
Yeah, I did.
I did not realize how deep it

927
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:30,320
was, but it's there's some
freaking high pockets of high

928
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,560
grade there if they can make it
bloody happen.

929
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,920
So yeah, big going on.
So buddy, what's black Black

930
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:38,160
Cats?
What half a billion dollar

931
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,360
company now?
Lot has changed in the last 18

932
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:42,480
months, hasn't it?
Yeah.

933
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,880
So there's going to be a bit
going on there, yes, so good.

934
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:49,960
Leave a go.
I love talking about gold.

935
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,800
More deals to come, Maddie.
I think that's the the way to

936
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,760
sign off on that 10.
Mate, every bloody mate.

937
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,640
That's the thing, like
everyone's saying, oh, we have

938
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:58,720
to.
All the pits are being mined.

939
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:02,320
We have to go deeper for gold.
Not the case because all the

940
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,960
pits that were mined, that were
economic, there's frigging gold

941
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,600
everywhere.
Going to set up a different

942
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:12,040
grade now, right?
Speaking of making a Black Hat,

943
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,600
better Mineral mining services.
MMS they are.

944
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:16,960
Oh mate, they're going to be
bloody.

945
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:18,800
The cash will be coming in for
them soon.

946
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,280
Grounded construction Group,
Sammy Ground support taking

947
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,920
advantage of the cesium mayhem
and CRE insurance.

948
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,960
That joint looked like probably
needs insurance once they ripped

949
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,120
those pillars out.
Catering, propelling, black cat,

950
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,720
salt Bush contracting.
They're already all into

951
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:39,920
Paddington now that we all into
Lakewood.

952
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:43,560
Swig 78,000,000 metres.
That's all I have to say.

953
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,240
Quattro project engineering
could do a bit of refurb on the

954
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:50,280
Lakewood if needed.
Call Quattro cross boundary

955
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,480
energy.
I'll now that have to Yeah I

956
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,200
know to be out there somewhere
and get your bloody underground

957
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,920
operators tickets. 100 bucks
off.

958
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,040
Link of the show notes.
Hoodoo money mods.

959
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,360
Go Australia, hoodoo.
Gosh, information contained in

960
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,160
this episode of Money of Mine is
of general nature only and does

961
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,960
not take into account the
objectives, financial situation,

962
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,040
or needs of any particular
person.

963
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,360
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

964
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,440
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

965
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,120
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.