Will a 93% takeover premium spur M&A drama?

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Right eye buddy miners.
Welcome back to another week,

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boys.
You got a big bloody humdinger

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of a segment deal in the big,
big cap space to go through

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here.
We do it it extrapolated

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massively from the the initial
kind of story, but we're talking

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mineral sands most of.
In small caps.

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Yeah, Most of the mineral sands
players in that kind of niche

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part of the mining world.
And yeah, M&A has its big place

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in this story as well and a bit
of history as well that you you

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love Maddie.
I love Speaking of history on

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the back of some visible gold
intersections.

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Today I'm going through visible
gold history slash visible gold

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porn.
Really.

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We've got a lot of bloody few
pictures and there's one picture

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I cannot get ahold of, but I'll
keep it for the money miners.

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I think I know the one you're
talking about.

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Hmm, this was a photo from
underground.

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Hmm, yes, did did the rounds
maybe like five years ago.

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Was it maybe 90, 90?
He was in the 90s, so.

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That's a bit more than oh mate.
Elusive from the photo anyway,

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I'm a bit slow today boys.
I just had a gut full of

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Italian.
Down at 6011.

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Cheers sals.
I'm a bit bloody parched

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actually.
Hold on, I've just got to get a

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water.
Hey Gerard, James, can you get

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us some water mate?
WA water boards?

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I could get you a bloody drink
of water if you want.

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Direct to your hand.
That's the relationship we have

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with him mate.
Great to have him back in the

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back in the team finding water
for the WA mining industry.

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Buddy and matey can find water
and get rid of the water if they

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want.
But he's but the mines are

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parched.
He gets him, he gets some.

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Water he's he's ending around
Mount Franklin's like they're

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going out of fashion up at site.
So mate, you want anything water

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bore drilling related?
Gerard James at the team at WA

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Water Bores.
He'll go anywhere as well.

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Anywhere he will go.
Any I know where for a fact

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he'll go anywhere.
He'll get and he'll do anything

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for you.
Right lads?

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Take it away.
What's going on?

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Riya, Tinto, Kenmar and Oryx
Global.

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Yeah, exactly.
And we've been taught Maddie

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that it's Ken Mayer, apparently.
So I know how grating it can be

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listening to a podcast and
somebody sort of pronounces

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things and I'm sure.
We do this Kenmare, Kenmar.

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Kenmar Which?
Is exactly how I pronounced it

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to start with, but we've been
taught it's a.

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Kenmare Yeah, that's obvious,
yeah.

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It's a company from Dublin,
they're based in Ireland and

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listed on the LSE.
So there was an eye-catching

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takeover attempt on Friday that
came out Maddie Orix Global.

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This new sort of PE shop, which
will give a bit of a one O 1 on

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in a moment teamed up with
Michael Carville, who's the

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former managing director of Ken
Mare resources.

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It only left in September of
last year and they came in to

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try and take over his old
business bidding at a 92%

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premium.
The the last close, so is.

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That Cash, Cash, all cash, all
cash, all cash.

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There's a fair bit.
To this one, all right, mate.

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So.
So who are The Who are the

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parties involved?
So we've got Ken Mare, like I

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said, LSE listed, Dublin based.
They've been around quite a

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while.
They were a oil and gas shell

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back in the day, 70s and 80s.
And then and then Michael came

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along in 8687 and sort of took
the company to what it is today.

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He's run the company for about
four decades.

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So the company itself operates
the MoMA titanium mine in

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Mozambique.
This one came into production in

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2007, fourth largest producer in
the world of titanium

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feedstocks.
So we're talking ilmenite,

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brutal zircon, all these kind of
products and that makes up a bit

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under 10% of global supply, one
of these mega long lived assets

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sort of 100 years they say at.
100 and my life.

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Crazy crazy.
So I assume it.

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Like there's probably more
beyond that too.

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If you've got 100 years, there's
probably some other shit you can

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take.
Too, There's no point counting

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beyond that kind of irrelevant
at that point.

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The the company after the share
price bump is capped at £360

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million and it's also in a bit
of an investment phase right

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now.
So they've guided to $150

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million to be spent this year
alone.

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That project that they're kind
of in the midst of comes in at a

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total of $340 million.
It's already kind of exceeded

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initial plans, which has
agitated a few shareholders out

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there.
So in the context of all of

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this, you've got a mineral sands
market which has been fairly

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weak since really the the back
end of 2022, which was a

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volatile time for the market.
More company specific.

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You've got political upheaval
that we touched on late last

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year following an election in
Mozambique.

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We saw miners like CSIRO as well
as S 32 were both impacted by

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this and their operations in in
country there.

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And added again to be a bit more
specific on Ken Mare is a few

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question marks around royalty
agreements and these sorts of

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things, but won't dive too much
into that side note at the

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moment.
How about how about Michael

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Carville?
Yeah, so.

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Obviously knows the company
inside and out, ran it for the

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best part of of four decades.
And it wasn't that long ago that

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he kind of stepped down, stepped
down and became a consultant to

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the business.
He's in his mid 60s now, but

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clearly is a big believer in the
business, has always been a big

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believer.
He was resistant to takeover

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attempts throughout the the 20
tens.

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But yeah, he's come back for
another part of the cherry and

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you've got RX Global Partners,
the group that he's teamed up

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with.
They're a relatively new private

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equity group.
Some people might recall just

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last week Elizabeth Gaines,
obviously the the former boss at

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Fortescue Medals and Laura Tyler
who people might know from her

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time at BHP as well as more
recently at at Adriatic.

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They joined the team in in
varying kind of capacities just

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last week.
So the group itself is Abu Dhabi

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based, very limited info on
them, don't really know how much

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capital they've got to deploy,
whether that cash is kind of in

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the accounts yet or what kind of
stage they're at.

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There's no other sort of big
deals that they've got their

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name tied to as far as I could
kind of tell.

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And their mandate is pretty
broad.

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So they talk about looking at
opportunities through the entire

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minerals value chain that can be
from mining itself to mining

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tech related to services, power
generation, a whole suite of

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things.
So there's, yeah, a bit more

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questions than answers on the on
the front of Oryx Global, but

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I'm sure in due course we'll
find out a bit more about them.

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So, so a bit of a bit of £5.30
cash, but the market didn't

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didn't go anywhere near that
that share price.

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So really, really interesting,
right?

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So like you, like you said,
they're Trev, 5 lbs, thirty, all

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cash.
Kenmark came out and rejected

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it.
When they told the market about

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this, they said that added
they'd given the consortium

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access to limited due diligence
info, which is kind of funny

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because I don't think there'll
be anyone in the world that

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knows more about the business
than Michael given his sort of

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tenure there.
But that'll perhaps help them a

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little bit because of course,
these UK and or more

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specifically Irish takeover
rules in in this case, those two

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are kind of similar in the fact
that you guys will remember when

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we spoke about Anglo and BHP,
you've got these kind of put up

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or shut up rules, they call them
within a sort of month or so.

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I think April 17th is the date
where they have to announce a

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firm intention to make another
bid.

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Or.
Walk away.

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But like you say, Trev, 93%
premium, but the stock only

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closed up 40%.
So that tells you a fair bit

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about the the market's belief on
the bid itself, on the sort of

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solidness of the bid, you might
say on whether they might come

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back, what the kind of actual
intentions are.

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It's yeah, it's an interesting
one, right?

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Totally.
It it tells you that the bid

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might have some uncertainty
about it in the market.

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Absolutely.
I mean, a Oryx, like you said,

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does, do we know how much money
they really have?

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Like there might be uncertainty
about that.

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The wording of the announcement
itself was kind of interesting.

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It said the most recent proposal
received was at a price of

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£5.30.
So there'd been previous

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proposals in place, but they've
chosen kind of now to disclose

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to the market that they've
rejected a, a proposal.

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So what's the, what's the
rationale for that?

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Is this like an attempt to try
and kind of elicit a, a, a

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competitive outcome with, with,
with other parties?

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Like what's, yeah, what's the,
what's the motives?

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Regardless of what that is, what
the share price is telling you

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is that there's there's some
doubt about the the realness

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that this will convert into a
real offer.

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Yeah, it's, it's super, super
juicy that the wording again

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leaves a few more questions and
answers, but we're we're getting

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closer to what's going on.
And I think we should feel that

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the money mine is in on a bit of
history.

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We found out not that long ago.
We're talking about 2024 here.

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You got Rio Tinto as well as the
UA ES international resources

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holding those.
Both of those parties ran the

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numbers on Ken Med's sort of
been reported.

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So money miners, right might
remember IRH, that group, that

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really generically named group,
they came in with a last minute

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bid to buy 51 per stake in
Zambia's Mopani copper mines.

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So it's some famous assets and
they got very close to actually

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picking up Con Cola also in
Zambia off Vedanta, some pretty

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well known copper operations.
That one didn't pan out.

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And we'll talk a bit more to the
the Rio Tinto angle in a moment.

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But this all came from an
activist investor, the big

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london-based investor, Jo
Hambro.

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They ran a bit of an activist
campaign early last year.

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They got in touch with the
company.

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They put forward obviously a few
suggestions, one of them kind of

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being that perhaps more value
would be realized if this were

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to be merged into a bigger group
and didn't have that solo asset

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single, you know African
jurisdiction kind of rich risk

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associated to it.
And you know, I think at the end

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of the day, they were a bit
frustrated having seen their

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shareholding go up through 2122
and then write it back down.

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They wanted to see a bit more
action on that that price front.

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Is Ji related to heavy hambra?
Yes.

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What?
What brothers or some or?

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I think the firm goes back
longer and my understanding is

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Evie is one of the children.
Yeah, right.

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Yeah, go, Evie.
Yeah, it's a, it's a kind of

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important money manager and
family in in London there

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they're.
Right.

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Come on the show whenever you
want, Ham Bros.

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Get back in touch.
So it was a bit more history,

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Maddie.
This is what I was referring to

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earlier that I wanted to dig
into.

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And this is the the 20 tens.
And I've just found it super

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fascinating.
And I think it gives more

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context to the the story that
we're talking about here.

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So the early twenty 10s Kenmare
is just flying.

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This is on the back of the China
boom.

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Everyone wants these titanium
feedstocks.

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Global GDP is moving upwards,
specifically driven by that

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China boom.
Dow Chemical were apparently

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circling the company, as were
Rio Tinto back then, and they

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reportedly considered a £2.4
billion bid just be enormous,

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but that didn't actually
eventuate.

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It's got to be said that Ken
Mayer's Max valuation only

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peaked at £1.2 billion, but
that's still pretty lofty.

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And then unfortunately, as China
kind of cooled, you get to the

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point in 2014 where the sting
has really come out.

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The stock, they've taken up a
massive CapEx program to expand

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production.
They've debt funded that, which

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has put them in a world of pain.
Aloka comes in and bids €500

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00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,920
million for the stock, but over
the next 18 months, they

227
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,000
continue to revise that down as
conditions continue to fall and

228
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,800
the ability for the company to
service its debt looks more and

229
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,680
more precarious.
So at the end of the day, in

230
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:36,360
about December 2015, about when
commodity markets are reaching

231
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,320
an absolute low, Aloka just
walks away and they kind of call

232
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,800
it and Kenmer OPS with the route
of a capital raise.

233
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,560
And this capital raise is done
at a hugely dilutive price.

234
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,760
There's a 90% dilution on all
the previous shareholders.

235
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,720
So complete rapid
recapitalization of the

236
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,600
business.
The previous equity investors

237
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,680
get wiped out.
The Armani monarchy, the

238
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,680
Sultanate of Oman comes in and
takes a 30% stake in the

239
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:08,800
business.
And they over the last 10 years

240
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,000
have bit by bit.
It took them a while, but

241
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,640
they've been selling into
buybacks and other capital

242
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,800
returns programs from from the
company.

243
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,560
And the final little twist here
that I think is particularly

244
00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:22,600
relevant to the the takeover is
that Ken Mayer signed up

245
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,760
Rothschilds to be on defence for
them.

246
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,520
And subsequent to that, about
four years ago now, you've got

247
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,440
the lead banker who ran defence
for them, joined Ken Mayer as

248
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,720
the chairman.
Then you've got the long time

249
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,120
managing director step back from
the company and he's the one

250
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:42,320
who's now come and try to buy
it.

251
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,480
So there's been a bit of role
reversal between two guys who

252
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,720
were formerly on the same side
and now one's playing off

253
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,840
against the other, trying to
extract a bit more value.

254
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,560
Yeah, right.
Every time you bloody.

255
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,680
Here's another twist for you.
When you mentioned Rothschilds,

256
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,280
it just gets me.
I'll just think of Sean Russo

257
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,800
'cause that's his old employer.
You think of hedging, you think

258
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,000
of hedging risk, you think of
CRE insurance.

259
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,840
That's you've sent me down
another 7° of separation J.

260
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,280
It's the logical connection.
Didn't you think of that?

261
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,440
Didn't you?
Didn't CRE insurance just pop in

262
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,200
the air there?
I couldn't get CRE out of my

263
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,400
head the whole time.
I could imagine anyone listening

264
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,840
in Orange right now be already
thinking of them 'cause they

265
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,880
would have probably had a coffee
next door to them at their

266
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,000
Orange office.
You could say the same about

267
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,320
Perth, Brisbane and Sydney as
well mate.

268
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,520
Where's next?
Mining in Mozambique.

269
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,960
They are phenomenal at operating
interdictions like that.

270
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,080
Maddie, have you got any spare
office space in Mozambique?

271
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,520
I reckon we've got a tenant CRE
insurance ready to tackle

272
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,760
Mozambique.
I think that'd be perfect over.

273
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,400
There in the meantime, they'll
do it from Perth.

274
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,640
They will, they will.
They'll go over there if you

275
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,320
need them.
Too, But there's there's a fair

276
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,200
bit of business interruption
that can sometimes happen from

277
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,640
time to time, including in the
story I'm about to tell, and CRE

278
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,240
Insurance can help help help in
those situations with the

279
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,440
insurance required.
Yep, just give them a call

280
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,200
regarding what Trav is about to
tell you.

281
00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,440
Right, Take it away.
What is take?

282
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:01,880
Just take it away.
What?

283
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,120
One of one of the One of the?
Yeah, like questions we're

284
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,920
trying to answer in in, in going
into this story is it's maybe

285
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,480
the revelation of this, this,
this bid from Marks or whatever

286
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:12,840
is it.
Is it a bit of an attempt to try

287
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,720
and get Rio to come to the party
and and pay up for for for Ken

288
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,400
Mayer at A at a pretty elevated
price?

289
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,720
Bit of gamesmanship.
Chunky premium, yadda, yadda,

290
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,800
yadda.
They've had, you know, interest

291
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,920
dating, dating all the way back.
And, and so I, I just, I was

292
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,800
kind of, I've got down a bit of
a rabbit hole to, to really look

293
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,320
at Rio Tintos like history and
mineral sands in this part of

294
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,360
the, in Africa specifically.
And I came away with some big

295
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,600
kind of takeaways as they relate
to where they're at right now

296
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,680
with their infrastructure and
their operations in South

297
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,120
Africa.
Their, their mineral sands

298
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,120
history in the African continent
is so interesting.

299
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,760
If we, if we take a good look,
we can try to have a guesstimate

300
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,400
about, you know, whether they're
going to pop up and, and, and

301
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,160
bid for, for Ken Mare, but also
like, are they going to, are

302
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,320
they going to bid for ASX listed
sovereign metals, for example?

303
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,600
And I'll, I'll get to that.
So rethink those major mineral

304
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,840
sands operations in South
Africa.

305
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,240
This is the, the Richards Bay
Mineral sands operations, but

306
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,480
they also have operations in, in
Madagascar near Fort Dauphin.

307
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,480
They've got a growth project in
Mozambique themself, but that's

308
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:16,880
got complications I'll talk
about soon.

309
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,480
Plus they own 19.9% stake in
sovereign metals in Malawi,

310
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,880
which I'll get to.
Richard's Bay Minerals.

311
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,080
It's a complicated asset for
Rio.

312
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,720
They, they're basically sold
like Rio's sold, I think all of

313
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,280
their other assets out of Rio
Dinto except for Richard's Bay

314
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,280
Minerals.
But they've kept this and that's

315
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,480
as South Africa has become an
increasingly challenging

316
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,240
jurisdiction to to invest in,
but they've kept rich as Bay

317
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,080
Minerals and that's because it's
a strategic asset for them.

318
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,240
It's, it's one of the largest
sources of, of titanium

319
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,720
feedstock and, and zircon on a
globally and real.

320
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,120
They've got, you know, vertical
integration in this market.

321
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,640
They've got, yeah, they've got,
they've got a smelter at

322
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,960
Richards Bay as well, which
helps produce an Illmaris slag.

323
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:02,160
And they've also got some
downstream stuff going on on in

324
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,800
Quebec.
It, it and and collectively all,

325
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,040
all of these sort of assets
position Rio with like a 14%

326
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,760
market share in that titanium
feedstocks kind of market, which

327
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,920
which is an an important market
share if in an industry where

328
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,440
you kind of want to have some
volume and pricing power because

329
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,000
prices are often times contract
based and opaque.

330
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,040
So when, when JD, when you said
Ken Meyer was the 4th biggest

331
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,640
producer in the world?
Is Rio's sovereign in the top

332
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,160
three items?
Sovereign's not a sovereign

333
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:31,040
stock.
There yet?

334
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,440
You've got, you've got Iluka,
you've got Tronox as well.

335
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,480
Rio being the the biggest.
Yeah, yeah.

336
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:45,680
These guys at 4th, I want to say
Aramet do a bit as well.

337
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,280
And Sierra Rizal.
Leon Oil.

338
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:49,480
Come Sierra Rizal.
I.

339
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,440
Haven't forgotten where it is.
Yeah.

340
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,000
And then you and then you've got
about 35% of the market coming

341
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,240
out of China.
Yeah.

342
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,920
And a lot of that is a byproduct
from iron ore mining.

343
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,520
What?
What's where's Sovereign going

344
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,240
to sit once they do start?
Once they eat 9 plate I.

345
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,160
Don't quote me on that.
Yeah.

346
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,800
Yeah, it's a, it's a very big
asset, but yeah, I'll.

347
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,880
Yeah, there's a bit of framing
on what size it comes out at and

348
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,160
and how we kind of go.
I think, I think we should put

349
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,800
in in perspective the, the size
of this kind of market and think

350
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,200
about what, what these earnings
kind of mean for for Rio.

351
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,119
Make Rio.
Rio is like a funny company,

352
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:27,960
right?
They've got like exposure to so

353
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,960
many different commodities, but
like really when you look at

354
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,360
their earnings and what actually
moves the dial, it's like

355
00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:36,040
Pilbara iron ore and and that's
it.

356
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,960
And I say that kind of like
tongue in cheek, but it's, if

357
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:45,120
you just like compare the EBITDA
from their entire what they call

358
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:48,640
this, this this kind of business
line, they call it titanium and

359
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,760
iron.
And that is in 2024 a mere

360
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,080
$609,000,000 in EBITDA.
Compare that to Pilbara iron

361
00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,000
ore, $16.5 billion.
So I mean, it was just we're

362
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,680
just like in a whole another
ballpark, but.

363
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,280
Then you got the north of
Canadian iron ore as well.

364
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,440
Yeah, yeah.
But even that's tiny in here.

365
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,360
Like that's only 700?
Million, but just iron, iron ore

366
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:11,680
for them.
Well, you think Rio?

367
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,800
Rio's a smaller company than
BHP, but they produce more iron

368
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,320
ore.
So that shows how leverage they

369
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,920
are to iron ore.
Yeah, absolutely.

370
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,200
On the on the Richard's Bay
front, you, you gave a bit of

371
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,640
colour on them.
The there was a, a pretty

372
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,160
important part of the history
sort of in, in 2021, there was a

373
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,000
pretty sort of violent event
that happened.

374
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,200
This is kind of following after
Rio Tinto had already tried to

375
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,960
make a, a partial kind of exit
from South Africa.

376
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,160
They were, they were holding
onto Richard's Bay.

377
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,040
But this would have done a bit
to their thinking.

378
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,440
Hey, right.
It's, it's, it's, it's horrible

379
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,640
this part of history.
Look at, you know, an executive

380
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,760
was murdered.
So the context, which is Bay

381
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,880
Minerals operates in in an area
of, of South Africa historically

382
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,840
occupied by Axillo speaking
communities.

383
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,880
There's there's several
different clans with the with

384
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,880
the influence over the area and
and they've got kind of

385
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,800
contested claims themselves.
In 2018 to 2019, there were

386
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,760
violent protests at Richard's
Bay Minerals Basic demonstrators

387
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,040
were blocking roads, setting
vehicles on fire, damaging

388
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,720
property.
This set of protests led to a

389
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,240
temporary mine shutdown mid
2018.

390
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,360
The cause was put down to local
communities demanding more and

391
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:27,840
preferential jobs and also just
rival rival clans forward over

392
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,400
contracts for transport security
supply services.

393
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,640
When RBM resumed operations
after some government

394
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,520
intervention like in in due
course, but but then that unrest

395
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,080
did set the stage for for future
disruptions.

396
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:45,440
In 2021, more protests, so arson
attacks and disputes over jobs.

397
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,360
Nico Swart was the general
manager of Richards Bay

398
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:51,680
Minerals, responsible for
security operations and he'd

399
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,120
been involved in in managing
tensions with some local

400
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,920
communities.
On the 24th of May that year, he

401
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,480
was on his way to work when his
car was ambushed by gunmen.

402
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,040
He was shot at least 27 times in
just an utterly horrible event

403
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,600
in the history of RBM and Rio
Tinto.

404
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,880
So what?
What kind of happens subsequent

405
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:15,200
to to that awful, awful murder?
So Rio, Rio, they suspend the

406
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:21,680
operations, they, they also put
the development of Zulti S on

407
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,360
ice where it still remains on
ice today.

408
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,000
And Zulti S is an incredibly
important part for for Richard's

409
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,800
Bay Minerals because when when
this development was approved in

410
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,920
2019, there was, you know,
nearly 500 million U.S. dollars

411
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,520
that was agreed to be invested,
which would effectively sustain

412
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,280
RB Ms. current capacity at that
point in time and extend it's my

413
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,960
life.
So as RBM sort of sits today,

414
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,720
they are yeah, producing out of
out of four mines in the Zolti N

415
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,400
lease area only.
And plus there's a giant kind of

416
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,200
mineral separation plant and a
smelting facility as well that

417
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,680
constitutes the the
infrastructure.

418
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,720
So Zolti S underpins Rio's
substantial kind of

419
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,280
infrastructure already to, to
keep things you know, like like

420
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,240
at full capacity or what not,
but it's, it's been on ice for

421
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,080
four years and that sets the
same for for Rio's potential M&A

422
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,960
appetite today.
I think because they, they, you

423
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,440
know, they have the, the
infrastructure which requires

424
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,280
kind of concentrate in order to,
to be fully, fully utilized to,

425
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,400
if you think of their mineral
separation plant that they've

426
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,160
got, that's being fed from these
four mines.

427
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,800
And each of those mines has its
own kind of concentrate plant.

428
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:32,520
So there's 35,000,000 tonnes of
ore from those mines generates

429
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,720
1.2 million tonnes of heavy
minerals concentrate and that

430
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,200
feeds the mineral separation
plant.

431
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,640
That mineral separation plant,
you know, separates into

432
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,600
ilmenite, zircon and rutile.
And the ilmenite, which is rich

433
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,920
in titanium is sent to the
smelter there for further

434
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,720
processing into a titanium slag
and also pig iron.

435
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,760
Our our word on the decline is
that Richards Bay's

436
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,120
infrastructure is is being
constrained by its inputs.

437
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,280
All right, let's kind of run
through those those inputs.

438
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,280
There's a couple big ones that
come to mind, right?

439
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,840
It's twofold.
First is concentrate supplies.

440
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,760
They can't get enough
concentrate at the moment to

441
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,720
keep the the minerals at the MSP
and smelter fully utilised.

442
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,800
And the second one is is power
issues like which is by

443
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,040
minerals.
They face frequent kind of load

444
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,600
shedding issues.
It's connected to the state

445
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,160
owned power utility S Com, which
has had a litany of issues over

446
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,920
over recent history and the
smelting phase here is really

447
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,600
energy intensive.
These are electric arc furnaces,

448
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,800
which require stable and A and a
really high amount of power.

449
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,560
So you can imagine the power
side of things has undermined,

450
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,160
you know, the the the
competitive positioning of the

451
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,080
product production you're
actually making and reagent is

452
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,720
pretty concerned about that.
Their current predicament.

453
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,320
They they came to get more
concentrate and frankly they've

454
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,920
got limited options here as
well.

455
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,360
Yeah, it's really interesting.
It looked like South Africa last

456
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:56,080
year was kind of turning a bit
of a corner on the on the power

457
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,520
front.
S commerce troubled a lot of

458
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,640
downstream production in in
country for years and years and

459
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,000
years and years far, far too
long.

460
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,320
And it looked like they were
kind of turning a coin actually

461
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:07,840
up until this year when we were
there.

462
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,800
And then they had these yeah,
power outages again, which is a

463
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,880
bit sort of disappointing to
see.

464
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,520
But you know, that's going to
kind of run its course and

465
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,520
hopefully it turns to the
positive.

466
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,200
Let's focus.
On a few Pbas as well of power

467
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,840
purchase agreements with, you
know, separate, independent so.

468
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,200
They don't have to rely on on
SCOM.

469
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,960
Let's focus on the the
concentrate side of things

470
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,960
because there there are a few
options on the table.

471
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:34,600
And you know, in time was kind
of circle back to to Ken Mare,

472
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,400
but they can look at a few
different projects around the

473
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,240
world as well as what they've
got in their their own growth

474
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,280
projects.
I think I think their first

475
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,800
choice would be develop Zalty
South.

476
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,920
This is complicated given the
the historical tensions and

477
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,680
violence, but it appears Rio is
is gearing up to pull the

478
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,800
trigger on, on this development.
You know, absent kind of any,

479
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,720
any more tensions or escalations
or violence or property damage

480
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,600
etcetera.
We, we, we think that they have

481
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,640
signalled a decision around mid,
mid year this year to, to, to

482
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:10,880
develop Zalty S second choice or
potential choice is Mozambique

483
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,960
And not, not that not can can,
can, can be like you talked

484
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,200
about.
But remember I said Rio Tinto

485
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,120
had a growth project of their
own in Mozambique.

486
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:21,520
It's called a Tumba and a pilot
plant was even built there in

487
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,320
2020.
I, I, I don't get a good feeling

488
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,240
about its prospects to fit in
the mix here because there isn't

489
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,800
much information since and the
JV partner Savannah, they pulled

490
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,120
out of the JV in 2021, which let
Rio take the lot for a pretty

491
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:37,160
small sum of money.
What what we hear is this

492
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,680
project Matamba is kind of
compromised by the very large

493
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,680
community displacement that
would be required to to mine

494
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,120
there.
So yeah, put a, put a, put a

495
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:47,800
question mark slash lines with
that one.

496
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,880
And then we go to Madagascar,
don't we?

497
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,880
Not the movie.
Their choice.

498
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,560
Yeah.
So Rio actually has a mineral

499
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,760
sands operation in in Madagascar
already.

500
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,520
And best I could tell operations
late life grades are declining.

501
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,520
You know, my, my life will
extend, but it's sort of five to

502
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,520
10 years my life remaining at
the moment that there's already

503
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,800
an MSP at that operation.
And best I can tell some of some

504
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,600
of the, the ilmenite that comes
from the MSP does in fact get

505
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,360
shipped to this, this Rio's
smelter in, in South Africa

506
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:23,720
already to produce the titanium
slag.

507
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,440
But also in in Madagascar is a
substantial mineral sands

508
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,960
development project which used
to be owned by Base Resources.

509
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,720
Now Energy Fuels, I think they
call it the Toliara approach.

510
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,400
Toliara, yeah.
And that sounds all systems go.

511
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,280
So in the next few years, you
know, that'll, you know,

512
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,080
hopefully be a be a fully
operating mine.

513
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,480
But the fact Energy Fuels
acquired Base Resources and not

514
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,800
Rio Dinto acquiring base
Resources sort of begs the

515
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,240
question about Rio's long term
view of remaining operating in

516
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,400
that country in that industry
itself, I think.

517
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,880
And then sovereign metals kind
of is worth worth raising in

518
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,160
this in in this discussion you
got to Katia.

519
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,600
Absolutely mate.
I, I think I, I pronounce it

520
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,200
Kaija but I'm probably saying
that wrong.

521
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,920
But yes, this, this, this one
will pique the interest of the

522
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,240
ASX punters.
Kaija is, it's one of those

523
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,520
exciting rutile development
projects.

524
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,600
It's in Malawi.
It's it's owned by ASX listed

525
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,200
sovereign metals.
Rio Tinto actually owns a 19.9%

526
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,840
interest in sovereign metals
already from a a strategic

527
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,960
agreement struck between the two
companies in 2023.

528
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,920
Part of that agreement, Rio has
the exclusive right to, to take

529
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,000
operatorship.
And if they do that, then they

530
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,800
maintain 40% rights to the
product that comes out of Kasia.

531
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,000
And yeah, but there's a, there's
a few parts to, to Kasia itself.

532
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,680
It's, it's enormous.
It's the largest natural route.

533
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,880
Our project globally, the the
PFS says it will produce 2

534
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,200
products, one natural rutile and
the other one is a graphite

535
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,360
product.
And whenever, whenever we think

536
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:00,400
graphite, I always just get sick
feeling in my stomach.

537
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,600
But yeah, that's just because of
the historic, historic stuff

538
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,120
around graphite.
Yeah, it's been a tough Rd. for

539
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:12,800
some Aussie listed graphite
producers in that sort of part

540
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:13,720
of the world, hasn't it?
Has.

541
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,480
Anyone done graphite good or
been successful at it?

542
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,560
China natural graphite.
Not yet.

543
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,280
Tough market.
Just we're we're one day closer.

544
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,680
One day closer, yeah, one day
closer.

545
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,240
If you, if you look at the the
PFS of it like it's, it's in

546
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,440
Malawi, right And that's
landlocked.

547
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,320
So to get the product to one of
the ports, you know, you're

548
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,200
paying substantial kind of
logistics costs here about 100

549
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,240
bucks per tonne is required to
to get it to a a port.

550
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,560
But that's OK because the two
products they want to sell sell

551
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,720
for a fair bit more than that.
But you've got a really long my

552
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,480
life because it's a big resource
that the PFS has an initial my

553
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,360
life for 25 years and an IRR of
27%.

554
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,480
So that's certainly in in, you
know, in the in the ballpark of

555
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,080
an asset that is is fit for a
major like Rio Tinto.

556
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,200
When you've got the healthy IRR
long my life and, you know, in

557
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,080
the in the in rutile, which they
care about.

558
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,520
While graphite has been a
disaster fair for everyone that

559
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,120
has kind of tried to make it
work in the West.

560
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,040
Hopefully the project could buck
that trend.

561
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:20,160
Both brutal and graphite make up
roughly half of the revenue each

562
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,280
in there in the optimised PFS
economics.

563
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,880
I, I, I think, I think the KJ
is, is, is interesting, but it

564
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,880
isn't, isn't cheap.
There's a $560 million market

565
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,320
cap and the stock's near all
time highs.

566
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,800
But they're going to have to
kick a few goals on that

567
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,240
graphite product.
They're risking too.

568
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,160
They've been putting out, you
know, more and more information

569
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,400
as it relates to this, and I've
listened to Jacob Starsam at at

570
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,840
reginto talk about, you know,
the potential of entering the

571
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,400
graphite market.
And he said, where's the effect

572
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,280
of, you know, we're already in
their gene commodities, like it

573
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,760
doesn't bother us if we're in,
if we get into one or two more.

574
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,520
So they're open minded about
that referencing, you know,

575
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,480
graphite specifically.
And I think just given the

576
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,000
complexities of of the market,
it's, it's worth a bit more

577
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,760
scrutiny as well.
When we just look at the study

578
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,440
numbers of Keja, because
Sovereigns PFS they use a

579
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:17,800
graphite price of roughly US
$1300 per tonne and they defend

580
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,880
that as conservative versus fast
markets long term forecast of US

581
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,520
1846 per tonne.
But just look at the recent

582
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:31,880
prices, you can see the price of
flake graphite fines kind of

583
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,360
nosedives below $400.00 per
tonne.

584
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,760
And it's the fines which is
actually the big part of the

585
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,280
market, the course.
The course flake is a much, much

586
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,680
smaller part of the market even
though you get a higher price

587
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,360
for it.
It's the fines that is used in

588
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,440
battery anodes.
Yeah, it's a, it's a super

589
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,360
interesting market.
And also it stands out that they

590
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,240
don't really push The xx China
like that's the big sire route

591
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,680
that they've gone down, got that
DOADOD funding package sending

592
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,640
stuff to America that pointing
to that being the only way that

593
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,240
they can survive in this market
and that they're going to get a

594
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,680
differentiated price due to the
the manipulation that China has

595
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,400
done.
So it's a, it's a, it's a

596
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,080
strategy that stands out in its
approach in my eyes.

597
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,880
Well, you might get 19.9% more
now, less than the 20% China

598
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,320
tariff.
Yeah, and and maybe and now

599
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,040
Rio's like gobbled up Arcadium
then you know that there's

600
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,240
probably going to be internally
more efforts on the fully fully

601
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,040
integrated and downstream kind
of battery stuff.

602
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,760
And this can kind of potentially
feed it.

603
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,920
But yeah, on on on my scan, you
know, you're looking at roughly

604
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:47,120
40% of cages products sort of
meets the the finds Micron cut

605
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,800
off or their thereabouts, which
which has me just wondering if

606
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,720
if their assumption on on price
is, is is reasonable and it's a

607
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,400
pretty meaningful part of the
revenue, right.

608
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,760
So when you're talking about the
yeah, yeah, 50% of revenue

609
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,800
versus versus the retail itself,
all I have to say if Rio can get

610
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,240
comfortable on the on the
graphite part, which is where,

611
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,440
you know, the majority of the
question marks are going to be,

612
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,640
then then sovereign looks
attractive.

613
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,920
Absolutely.
And it's, I mean, it's hard to

614
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,400
distinguish with the, the share
price rise, how much is that

615
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,440
like other investors getting
comfortable with the fact that

616
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,880
Rio Tinto is now there or
rewarding the company as they

617
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,680
kind of get closer to, to making
a call.

618
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,840
But at this point in time, it's
been a, it's been a really good

619
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,080
last year or 18 months for the
company on that front as they

620
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,080
continue to release all that
network that you kind of speak

621
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,360
to there, right?
Yeah, yeah.

622
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,840
And yeah.
So it is interesting, like I

623
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,040
think after doing all that deep
dive on, on, on Rio Tinto and

624
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,240
their history in, in mineral
sands, like they've got, they've

625
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,480
got deal appetite.
They're, you know, interested

626
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,880
in, in 3rd party sources of, of
concentrate.

627
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,160
I mean, there are going to be
logistics challenges to actually

628
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,880
get a concentrate, but maybe you
can get at least the almanide to

629
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,120
help feed the smelter from, from
somewhere else.

630
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,560
And yeah, so there's a there's a
bunch of a bunch of potential

631
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,760
things on the line there.
The one thing to just watch is

632
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,560
around around mid this year if
they pull the trigger on on

633
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,880
salty South or not.
Yeah, right.

634
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,600
What do you mean?
Speaking of Aussie based mineral

635
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,080
sands, Petrotherm that's getting
talked about, that's actually a

636
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,040
rutile in South Australia.
What's bloody what's the Goss on

637
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:28,480
that?
It's.

638
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,360
Been very volatile, hasn't it?
It came off a lot since it's a

639
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:33,600
yeah.
Right.

640
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,000
It just did, just did a rise I
think, Yeah.

641
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,800
So come off a bit there, but
that's like Aussie based seems

642
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,280
to be the one behind sovereign
on the listed ones in Australia.

643
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,920
I mean, you, you look at Iluka
and their their working capital

644
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,480
build or their inventories,
whatever way you want to slice

645
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,040
and dice it.
But they call it a billion

646
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,280
dollars that they've now got in
inventory.

647
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,120
In inventory.
Wow, they're kept at less than

648
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,320
two billion.
So inventory has swelled

649
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,560
massively since 2022.
It's a, it's a, yeah, a super

650
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,720
interesting, somewhat opaque
market.

651
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,760
And to round it back to, to Ken
Meier, you've got a pretty

652
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,600
limited number of potential
buyers.

653
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,040
So obviously we went into detail
on Rio Tinto's interest and

654
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,880
capacity to to have a look and
and take them out.

655
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,720
I don't think they will.
It's my gut feel, by the way.

656
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,560
Yeah.
And then you've got Tronox, who

657
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,960
admittedly we went far less deep
on, but the gut read was that

658
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,320
this wouldn't be the right
opportunity for them.

659
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,920
So there's not an awful lot of
buyers for Kenmare if they're

660
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,440
thinking someone's going to come
in over the top.

661
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:43,880
But going back to Africa, Yep,
they've yeah, had a go at that

662
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,400
in the past.
And I think they'll stay on

663
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,400
Aussie shores for now.
So it's like the whole with this

664
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,800
increased activity on the back
of the Sierra rutile battle,

665
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,440
mind you, but even like take
away like considering the

666
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,160
inventory you said that I look
has got is like the rutile, like

667
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,080
the global titanium market.
Is it is it peak?

668
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,760
Is there a structural supply
deficit coming up?

669
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,159
Like what's the market feel?
What's the vibe of it is?

670
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:12,639
Is there differing views of it
or?

671
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,639
Every market's got a structural
supply deficit coming, Betty.

672
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:16,760
Yeah.
They've got one of those charts

673
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,360
where supply goes down like that
and and demand goes up.

674
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:25,600
I I think of the market as kind
of roughly following global GDP,

675
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,239
but you've got those opaque
factors, you've got those by

676
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,880
product elements that play a
play a role in it.

677
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,440
A lot of it for a while was sort
of tied in with this Chinese

678
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,880
property boom.
Obviously that's cooled down and

679
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,920
you know it's all happened at a
time that a lot of the producers

680
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,600
were expanding supplies.
So that all culminated in a

681
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,560
number of additional supply and
decrease in demand factors

682
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,960
hitting at the same time, which
was not good for the market

683
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,400
outlook.
So it is come off pretty

684
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,520
substantially since 2022.
The conflict in Ukraine and

685
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,680
Russia impacted markets as well.
But it's, it's kind of cagey

686
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:04,840
right now.
And I think that's a bit

687
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,400
reflective of kind of how we
think of like iron ore and these

688
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,280
sorts of things as well, maybe
not so much on the supply side,

689
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,160
but just like the world's growth
is looking a bit more shaky at

690
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,480
the moment.
So it's kind of 1 lens to think

691
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,440
of it as.
Yeah, what What gives the what's

692
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,920
the most leverage to titanium?
Like what's the biggest factor

693
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,440
in increasing demand for
titanium globally?

694
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,440
Increasing demand, increasing
the standard of living across

695
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:31,240
the world.
Paint.

696
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,320
Paint it.
Paint.

697
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:33,160
How many?
How many?

698
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:34,720
How many coats of Dulux do you
want on you?

699
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,240
Yeah.
And how rapidly do you, you

700
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,960
know, repaint your stuff?
10% of the market is of the

701
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,440
titanium goes to titanium metal
which is used in aerospace, so

702
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,200
both defence and plane parts.
So again, that sort of has a

703
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,600
part military application as
well as just overall people

704
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,440
flying in more planes.
So yeah, they they put a chart

705
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,480
of GDP going up one way on their
on their map and titanium demand

706
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,280
kind of following that and
interesting.

707
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,120
The, the, the, the thing JD
mentioned too is like the

708
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,680
tendency of producers in this
industry to build massive

709
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,440
stockpiles when they can't get
the price that you know is

710
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:17,280
appropriate really limits the
upside in this market.

711
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,080
You don't get big flex, flex UPS
in sort of price because the

712
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,560
producers build inventory and
then they release that inventory

713
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,400
when prices are appropriate.
But that keeps, you know, you

714
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,520
don't get really volatile
upswings like you would in other

715
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,680
commodities as a result of that.
Yeah, look at 2022 and look at

716
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,560
Iluka's inventory balls of 21 as
well.

717
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,120
It started but 22 drops 23 it
starts picking up massively

718
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,400
again.
And so new supply is really,

719
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,560
really responsive to better
pricing environments too.

720
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,440
There's a, if you think of this,
the types of operations these

721
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,480
are, you can somewhat easily
just start, you know, mining and

722
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,280
processing a bit more.
There's, there's often times

723
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,680
spare capacity.
Think of, think of Myluca having

724
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,640
their, their, you know,
synthetic kiln, one kiln 2.

725
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,440
This, this swing capacity that
can kind of come online as, as

726
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,320
the market requires a bit more
capacity.

727
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,720
And then it pretty quickly gets
supplied when the demands there

728
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:09,680
and and all of a sudden prices
don't stay elevated for long.

729
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,800
Very interesting.
I I know more about titanium as

730
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,120
of 10 minutes ago.
Thank you very much, gentlemen.

731
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,440
I know far more as than I did as
of this morning.

732
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,280
It's interesting one.
Good stuff, right?

733
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,000
A bit of bloody visible gold
porn we're going through.

734
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,960
Have a look at this period.
Oh, this is new Murchison gold.

735
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,640
Hit the bloody a good chunk of
flake here on Ding Ding Ding.

736
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,240
Oh yeah, Ding Ding alley.
GC is dinging the crap out of

737
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:38,200
the joint today, buddy.
I I looked at this chord.

738
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,960
I'm thinking holy snapping duck
shit.

739
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,240
I've not in terms of when you
say visible Guild, I'll bring up

740
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:47,360
some historical ones, but it's
usually a speck or something.

741
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,600
There's not many that actually
look like this, which really

742
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,840
sparked my attention.
So doing a bit of extensional

743
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,120
drilling outside the resource
and the pit.

744
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,000
They've obviously, as we've
mentioned, got the West Guild,

745
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,000
have got their foot on them
pretty much for mine and a

746
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,560
million tonne out of that open
pit.

747
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,920
So this is beyond that for the
for the future.

748
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,920
So I thought why not looking at
that call, look at some visible

749
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,280
gold from history and just say
there's there's one I haven't

750
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,880
been able to get a hold of yet
but I'll I'll get it in due

751
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,480
time.
Got to go through type visible

752
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,880
gold in the chat.
GPT was the 1st starting point.

753
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:25,520
Walk us through history mate
there.

754
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,840
Was actually one in February
this year, Advance Metals,

755
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,440
they're down in the Victorian
gold fields.

756
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:37,320
So you can see, as I said,
there's me bloody what's me

757
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,520
going?
It's actually on mobile view too

758
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,280
and it's bloody shitting.
Victorian gold fields have been

759
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,080
have been good for the visible
gold, haven't they?

760
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,240
Yeah, I think all one I've
probably missed was Southern

761
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:47,600
Cross.
I think they hit some as well.

762
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,960
So you say this one that's a
there's your visible gold, which

763
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,400
is for the money miners that
that don't know when like to

764
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,600
have visible gold is not as
common like most, most gold you

765
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,080
cannot see like 99% of drill
intersections is gold you cannot

766
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,120
see.
That's why it's in when it says

767
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,440
10 grams per, which is pretty
good grade, that's 10 parts per

768
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,640
million.
So hence you it's gold that is

769
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,880
very that small, you just cannot
see it.

770
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,760
So in these are the cases where
you can see it, which sometimes

771
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,560
not all the time is an
indication of higher grade

772
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,400
because it might be just very
isolated.

773
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,800
Yeah, I think it's important to
remember it isn't always.

774
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:28,640
So it can be a bit deceiving and
you can mentally throw you off

775
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,480
when you see a big chunk of
yellow stuff, but the grade

776
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,000
doesn't come out quite as good
as you think it might.

777
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,440
Yeah.
And then and you got to also

778
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,120
think of how they extrapolated
over the like if it gets smeared

779
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,760
across a resource here, if they
put top, and we'll show here

780
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,480
where they put top cuts on
assays where they say, right,

781
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,840
we're not reporting anything
above 50 grams because they

782
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,240
don't want to blow out the area
of influence of this one bit of

783
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:51,240
visible gold.
And then you end up mining next

784
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:52,680
to it and there's fucking no
gold.

785
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,160
So so that's a that's a small
little speck there in the

786
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,840
Victorian goldfields.
Next one we'll bring up on

787
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:05,240
visible Maddie's visible gold.
I'll stop saying porn ballymore

788
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,360
Ballymore resources.
This one's a bit of a fine spec

789
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:11,760
as well.
I think that was a picture I was

790
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,200
bloody talking about there.
What that come back at?

791
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,920
.4 of a meter at 54g per ton, so
even visible gold was still 54.

792
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,040
So it's not like knockout
knockout next one Odyssey gold.

793
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,800
These guys fly under the radar a
bit of I.

794
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,720
Remember this one?
Yeah, 2021 and it's like it

795
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:36,840
obviously looks so yeah, gold
like, but I remember it come

796
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,160
out.
A subsequent announcement said

797
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,960
that it broke the upper bound of
the machine.

798
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,160
Yeah.
So I've actually got that that.

799
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:45,920
When that happened.
That, that one here, the central

800
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,920
sub sample has exceeded the
laboratory upper detection limit

801
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,400
of 12,000 grams per tonne.
So it's just pretty much gold in

802
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,480
that section, yeah.
That's West Perth Hall of Fame

803
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:57,560
I.
Love it.

804
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,040
So they're 'cause they're
actually in the got it.

805
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,520
They're right in the right in
the Murchison.

806
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,200
Bloody thing.
But just north in between maker

807
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,520
and Q that which is actually
pretty close to where new

808
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,440
Murchison have hit theirs.
So that's that's not a bad look

809
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:14,720
at that's a pretty good looking
one.

810
00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:19,080
The Odyssey 1 great boulder.
They remember the this was the

811
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,320
one where they went into trading
halt straight away because

812
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,360
visible gold was coming out of
the RC chips and paddow actually

813
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,920
put in the announcement.
We had to go into the trading

814
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,680
halt before the drillers got to
the pub.

815
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,400
So that one actually, this one
actually come back at 1m at

816
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:42,240
3451g per tonne.
So that was a bit of a bit of a

817
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:47,440
hemdinger you'd think with
bloody Spartans resource they've

818
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,640
got, they should have had some
visible gold at some point.

819
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,200
They have these, this was the, I
think it's one of the early ones

820
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,320
from when they were still called
gas coin.

821
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,840
You can see the bloody little
specks there.

822
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:02,280
Not not huge amounts that come
back at you know, that was a

823
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,680
like a pretty much did the whole
thing at 29 meters at 11 grams.

824
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,200
But as I was mentioned about top
cuts here, you say assays top

825
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,280
cut to 50 grams per ton.
So in the intervals they were,

826
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,720
if something blew the machine
apart like Odyssey did, they'd

827
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:24,000
just get a 50 gram top cut to
mean that right doesn't smear

828
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,200
across the resource and then
potential upside later if you do

829
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,000
have those top cuts in place,
it's a bit more of a

830
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,480
conservative approach.
I'll still remember this is one

831
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,520
of my favourites from back in
the day 2011, the early Northern

832
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,920
Star days.
This is actually when I was

833
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,480
there.
This is I think Voyager 2.

834
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,560
This was the and just the the
way that the announcement, just

835
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,320
the biggest baldest riding
12,178g per tonne.

836
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,040
That was bloody bill in bloody.
He was in Max gold mode then he

837
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,960
loved it.
So I think that's you can see

838
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,200
visible gold on the corner there
at the top of the core.

839
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,440
So it wasn't like a for that
grade.

840
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,880
So there was obviously a shit
load of fine gold in there, not

841
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,360
just a big bloody gold flake.
So it comes in different shapes

842
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,680
and sizes.
Don't think the ASX would let

843
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,880
you do that one anymore.
Nah, yeah, Good, good.

844
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,360
Bloody a lot.
I love the font good font size

845
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,720
there now one of the biggest
humdingers of gold deposits that

846
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:28,520
were found that just look like a
friggin Abscess come off this

847
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,880
ore body was Fosterville, which
was Kirkland Lake.

848
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,560
Then obviously Agnico Agnico
Eagle took over Kirkland Lake

849
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,360
and they're not in the the
heyday that Fosterville was like

850
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,960
they the I think it was a 30
gram head grade going through

851
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,040
the mill there like it.
Was good Oz.

852
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,480
Phenomenal.
And here's a picture of the I

853
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,200
think this looks pretty zoomed
in of some core at Fosterville

854
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,840
and you but you look at you look
at the infill drilling results,

855
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,360
these these drilling results
aren't that core, just it was

856
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:08,040
from a different time, but 976g
per tonne over 7 meters, 933g

857
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,880
per tonne over 6 meters like
that is the friggin gold.

858
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,760
The Fosterville was just this
absolute anomaly.

859
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:20,000
It was unbelievable.
The now the probably I don't

860
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,280
know if this was the one you
were talking about JD beta hunt,

861
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,400
beta hunt.
So beta hunt back in when was

862
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:33,600
this 2019, around 2018-2019.
They were they were it was a

863
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,880
nickel mine.
They weren't even a bloody gold

864
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,280
mine.
It was owned by RNCS.

865
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,720
That was a Canadian company and
it was, they're trying to sell

866
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:46,160
it as a nickel mine.
And it was just, you know, it

867
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,400
was tough going there.
And they knew this.

868
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,720
They knew gold was in pockets in
random places.

869
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:56,680
And I remember I was at, I think
I was working at Daisy Milano at

870
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,000
the time.
So a lot of the people at Daisy

871
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,680
were in drive out of Cambalda.
So I was all part of that

872
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,920
Cambalda community and this
they've pretty much taken I

873
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,880
think he just took an air leg
drive cut and they've come down

874
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,080
and he started washing it down
and they were like that to ring

875
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:19,640
up and say, I think Jr., you got
to get down here because there

876
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,880
it was just fuck and gold
everywhere.

877
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,320
And you can see the see these
rocks here.

878
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,280
So you've just got these.
I don't know what it looks like.

879
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,720
It's got gold mould on it.
Like there's just gold growing

880
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:33,240
on the rock.
It was just, and it was, they've

881
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:36,800
obviously just hit this patch
and then they've kept going on

882
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,680
it.
And then I think a year later as

883
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,280
well there they hit another
patch.

884
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:45,840
And so the the sales process
just became so much easier.

885
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:51,840
It just went from not being able
to sell it at all to assume they

886
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,920
sold it.
RNC sold it to Korora.

887
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,400
Korora would just rename.
I'm not sure.

888
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,440
I'm not sure actually.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

889
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,080
Maybe they maybe they did.
Maybe that that was it.

890
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:06,040
Yeah.
So it was.

891
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,680
That's obviously the beta hunt
that W Guild have as we speak.

892
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,080
So don't worry about the nickel.
This is gold.

893
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,880
So that was a 90K gold specimen
that rock.

894
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,800
So I don't know what the bloody
grade of that was.

895
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,960
So the the one I can't find that
I remember getting showed at the

896
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,200
at the wet mess.
So and it was a photo.

897
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:28,520
So it's one thing at the wet
mess.

898
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,400
That was definitely true.
And it was this picture from an

899
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:36,480
all drive at Yulgan Star, which
is Southern Cross, which is on

900
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,480
what is it, Bartow Gold Minjar,
now that area.

901
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,120
And it was from I think it was
the 90s.

902
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:47,480
And it was so, you know, like
the yeah, Bellevue's and Horror

903
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,200
banders and that like you just
have the quartz vein going

904
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,640
through the guts.
This was a drive like that.

905
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:59,160
But the vein which was like
pretty bloody thick was just a

906
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,360
gold vine.
Like it was just frigging pure

907
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,800
gold.
I've never seen anything like

908
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,280
it.
It was just absolutely

909
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:09,600
phenomenal.
I wish I had the photo.

910
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,720
If I find the photo I'll I'll
show everyone, but I'll it was

911
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:16,400
just a thing of absolute beauty.
Chuck it in the director

912
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:17,280
special.
Mate, Yeah.

913
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,000
And then I've also heard if
anyone's got photos, these are

914
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,040
real back in the day, I've heard
Norseman back in the day, like

915
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,560
Harlequin of.
Well, the shift boss who worked

916
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:32,840
with at Paulson said, you know,
most minds you got, what was it

917
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,480
like?
It'd be all quartz.

918
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,120
Like I know Paulsen's was all
quartz in the ore body.

919
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,480
And then you'd have a, you know,
the gold bearing vein in the

920
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,680
middle.
He said, I think, I think it was

921
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,640
Harlequin or one of the northern
gold parts was the opposite.

922
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,760
So you'd have all gold and then
just quartz veins here and

923
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,760
there.
So there's a yeah, God, but

924
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:57,560
people were with all that free
gold comes a lot of gold in

925
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,320
people's pockets as well, so.
There's socks and.

926
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,480
Yeah, yeah.
And there's all there's some

927
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,400
some stories from back in the
day of the gold that the the

928
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,400
reconciliation wasn't there and
like pay you like I've heard

929
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,960
people that like when once the
authorities actually came to

930
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,680
sight and people knew they were
buggered, there was yeah, there

931
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,080
was some horrible events that
happened on the back of that.

932
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,200
So and that but and gold was
what, in the hundreds of dollars

933
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:26,920
an ounce then when that was
happening.

934
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,760
So could you imagine running
into that stuff now at 4600?

935
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,880
So good luck.
Just keep fucking drilling

936
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,640
aisles everyone.
You will find it.

937
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,280
To wrap up that'll.
Be into it, but I'm not going to

938
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:40,760
RIP them out for you nice and
quick.

939
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:41,400
Was it?
Was it?

940
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,240
Was it RNC?
Royal Nickel Corporation in June

941
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:47,200
2020 changed its name to
Carolla.

942
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,240
There you go.
Yeah, beautiful.

943
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,880
Nothing like a name change.
It's like M&A happened.

944
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:54,200
Beautiful mate. 100 bucks off
yours.

945
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:58,320
IMM underground operators
tickets April 7th to 9th in

946
00:48:58,320 --> 00:48:59,560
Adelaide.
Can't bloody wait.

947
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:05,200
Also got our great partners MMS
grounded, CMP ground sports, CRO

948
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:10,720
insurance K drill WA water
balls, swig watra project

949
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:13,520
engineering, cross boundary
energy, hoodoo, money mods,

950
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,360
hoodoo.
Information contained in this

951
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,120
episode of Money of Mine is of
general nature only and does not

952
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,760
take into account the
objectives, financial situation

953
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:23,800
or needs of any particular
person.

954
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,160
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

955
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,200
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

956
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,920
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.