What does Rio’s brine bet mean for spod?

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Righto buddy Miners special
treat weekly special ally G CS

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in the house.
I've got the weekly GC injection

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today.
Very good.

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And I'm the one talking about
gold.

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I know it's some parallel
universe.

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Is this your first episode back
since MMS are on the bloody?

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Thunder.
I think so.

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Well.
How do you feel about that?

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I feel delighted.
Best open pit mining contractor

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is on our thumbnails.
Do you feel it probably has

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delighted the people that get
them for a open pit mining?

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Contract.
I feel more delighted for them,

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yeah.
Yeah, I love that.

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It's just like there is just
like hormones flying for those

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people.
They are just at the peak of

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their life.
They love it.

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They are delighted.
They're delighted because they

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got, yeah, just a fleet ready
for them with latency and

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capacity and alignment.
That's all you want.

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All you want boys are and girl
The the Rio Arcadium confirmed

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it happened and it's right in
bloody why JS midpoint of his

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recommendation to Bloomberg of
what the price should be.

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Got to talk about it.
Deals done.

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I've seen, I've never seen so
many bad takes about a deal.

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It's like, it's like everyone
pretends they know something

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about like, commodities all of a
sudden because Rio's done a deal

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and there's just some awful
takes out there on Twitter.

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If you and to think 90 they're
like lithium prices are too.

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Ah, yeah, yeah.
But 90% premium, just yeah, take

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the cash, put it somewhere else
quickly.

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Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna
hopefully provide some good

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tapes about this transaction.
Where do I sign right then we've

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got Ray just put out some their
pre quarterly and I've just made

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a segment out of fixation of
imagination around what's going

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on there with them, which should
be pretty cool.

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Hopefully, Jay, so you've gone
into Mac?

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Yeah, I've just touched on the
Mac rays that come out this

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morning or the revised one.
Just a few questions I want to

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ask.
Who's answering them?

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I don't know what else you've
got.

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That's it.
Something else, right?

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RIP.
In Rio, Arcadium confirmed 90%

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premium to bloody and you
understood interesting when you

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said and I would never thought
I'd say that they're amenable to

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raising cash for it.
I think that's bullshit.

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I.
Reckon where'd that come from?

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Was.
It was.

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It a comment from Jacob.
Or he, I just think that's a

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headline grab from a very small
like he created some degree of

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like, oh, nothing's ever off the
cards, but there's no way

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they're going to.
Raise money, you would not

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think.
There's no way.

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There's literally just put a
lines for it.

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That's just.
Yeah, jeez.

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Up.
Fat take #1 I'd.

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Love it if they do.
There's no way oh, you wouldn't

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think so you you pay something
script if you think that you if

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you want to be more prudent
about your balance sheet.

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It's just it's rare Tinto they
could leave her up way more than

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they've got debt right now and
be fine.

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Yeah, like they're they've just
finished massive.

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Well, they're about to finish
massive growth kind of CapEx at

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Tim and do.
And what you're talking about is

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like about to just start
printing heaps and like their

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CapEx profile kind of tapers
down a bit.

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And yeah, their balance sheet's
fine.

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They shouldn't raise money that
way.

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So what's the?
Agreement if if Rio raise money

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I will start cycling 200 KS a
week.

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Chase, that's a big cool.
It would.

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Be I'll feel good if I do so
it's probably a big win anyway.

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Should we?
Should we start with the numbers

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for those that didn't catch the
deal itself then?

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So Rio paying US 5 bucks 85 on
the, the US stock.

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So that's sort of 8 bucks 60 on
the, the CDIS that we have here

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in Australia.
So the price tag is about Aussie

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10 billion or US $6.7 billion.
Like you said, Maddie, 90%

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premium to the undisturbed.
Obviously the, the rumours sort

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of spilled out over the weekend.
So they're referencing from late

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last week the undisturbed price
and interestingly, which we'll

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touch on a bit later, you've got
Mike and the the Black Waddle

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team saying they'll be looking
against the deal and sort of see

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that the chat we had on Monday
for more info on that one.

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The deal is all cash will close
in mid 2025 as we sort of went

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through this assets everywhere.
So you need a fair few

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approvals.
You'll also need shareholder

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approval on the Arcadium side.
So majority of those present

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plus 75% of the votes put
forward and of course board

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approval has been received.
We've got that from the

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presentation being given by both
Paul Graves of Arcadium as well

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as Yakob Stalzom of Rio Tinto.
So let's get into our sort of

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thoughts on the deal, the deal
sort of talking points and

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everything in and around that.
I think that's kind of

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interesting.
Should we start with the the

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price tag guys?
Yeah.

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I mean it's a, it's a you could,
you could almost infer from some

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of the discussions that Yakob
like had in there in the call

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afterwards that they were still
going back and forth on value

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right up until I think the day
before the announced yesterday

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afternoon.
So yeah, in some way shape or

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form like, yeah, maybe some of
the loud shareholders could have

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could have even kind of had had
an impact there.

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But yeah, this is like it's a
counter cyclical M&A, which like

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the transaction, which you
rarely ever see from Rio Tinto,

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it's been a hell of a long time
since I've, yeah, being

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intentionally counter cyclical
that I can think of.

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So it like the, the, the, the
price paid, they're paying for

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optionality at the end of the
day, this, it's not like

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they're, they're, they're paying
for, you know, 2026 EBITDA.

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It's not, it's not what this
deal is being valued on is that

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they're, they're taking a long
term view on the cost curve,

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which is the most important
talking point, I think.

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And they're, they're paying for
the optionality that Arcadian

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gives them in what they think
will be a steep loss curve.

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Yeah, yeah, I could bet a really
interesting comment on that, he

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he said.
We never know where in the cycle

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we are, but we're not at the top
right now.

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There's kind of interesting one
on, you know, kind of reflecting

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on on Rio's tendency to to buy
in at the top in in the past.

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So that was a sort of reflection
I made on it.

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But the, the cost curve is the,
the sort of really interesting

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point.
And in the slide deck they put

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forward this 2035 lithium and
copper cost curve, kind of

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interesting, interesting concept
put forward quoted in sort of C3

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for those wondering, it's just
all in sustaining cost.

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And they, they, they reflect on
it being a, you know, steepness

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in the cost curve that's
comparable to copper.

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And that's been the, the
critique for a long time, right?

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BHB famously not getting
involved because they think it

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just is too flat a cost curve
where the the profits you'll

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make if you're in that first or
second quartile don't sort of

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outweigh the kind of risk
because the the marginal

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producers just aren't that much
further up from you.

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And Paul, the CEO of Arcadia,
made an interesting comment that

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the cost curve is only going to
get steeper.

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You would say that, but.
He absolutely would, but.

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I think it's worth playing some
some commentary from from Yakam

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specifically on this.
This is this is the talking

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point in my opinion.
I'm sitting here with standing

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here with colleagues who have
worked extremely hard the whole

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year to try to look at every
single leash on project in the

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world.
And that has given us the

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confidence about what we want to
be part of and what we don't

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want to be part of.
And we became more and more

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clear that we were very keen on
not just developing a spot human

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business but rather produce
battery grade lithium.

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We also realised that in Latin
America you probably find the

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lowest part of the cost curve
and therefore we like the

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brines, we like the more
exposure to Argentina.

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I would say the Hard Rock
opportunities in Canada are very

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attractive to us as well.
So it was not kind of us looking

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at at Acadia and we were
actually just looking at the

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whole industry and find out what
our criterias and then and

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suddenly we realised Arcadium
had the perfect match for us and

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therefore I'm super happy where
we are today.

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The Hard Rock comment was very
interesting and that was the one

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bit we're unknown about the
other day.

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He.
Threw that in as an afterthought

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at the end, right?
And like he was and look, just

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look at this cost curve.
This is staggering to me, right?

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What they're saying is we're
predicting where what the long

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term costs of these assets are
going to be out into 2035.

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Where's the Hard Rock in
Arcadia's portfolio on there

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fucking Q4 and Q3?
Yeah, I assume that's green

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bushes.
Yeah, there.

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And then Arcadium's though
Arcadium's they they're picking

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up Galaxy and and I can't
pronounce what, what, what how

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do you, how do you pronounce
that one?

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What vouch.
Yeah.

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Anyway, I'm sorry, Arcadium
shareholders, but those are the

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spodrowing assets.
And then the second half of the

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cost curve where Tinto doesn't
buy second half of the cost

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curve assets.
It was so funny, right?

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Because.
Was he more referring to Hard

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Rock as a as a like talking
about hard rocking Quebec, not

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specifically Arcadia?
Those are those are both Quebec

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assets.
I think what he's.

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Really.
Other ones.

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What he's really saying is we
want Brian, yeah.

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Yeah, that that's the key take
away and specifically on on the

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assets, like you said, you can
see them in the in the 3rd and

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4th quartile.
They are not Rio Tinto assets.

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And the notion they have on the
sort of side there that Galaxy

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expected to be highly
profitable, that that just

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doesn't totally make sense.
And it Yaaka went on to say we

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bring stuff on at the bottom of
the cost curve.

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So I think they're just got to
divest them in time.

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I think that's the kind of.
It's just part of the package,

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right?
Maybe they do, maybe they don't.

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Maybe there's optionality if you
can, you know, build out IRA

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compliant stuff in them.
Yeah, we'll.

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Discuss before, yeah.
But the, the fundamental view of

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what types of lithium producing
assets are going to be lower

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cost, they are like they're,
they're, they're super bullish,

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Brian versus that versus spot.
That's the takeaway.

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And I think that's like a point
of reflection for the entire

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kind of lithium investment
industry.

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Do do you think did any comments
allude to the fact they're going

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to use this as as a bit of a
vehicle to for further M and.

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I they, they, they didn't talk
about future M&A, but they never

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would like they would just, they
would never give that away.

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There's that, but there's as you
said, there's so much like even

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if they got these high cross
court oil, Hard Rock ones, but

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then with the brine and
everything like the optionality

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for, you know, further expansion
into all field brines, other

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brides, if they're if the DLA,
they become the DLA company.

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There is a lot of yeah, who
knows where this could go in the

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future for them.
DLA is the next talking point.

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Totally.
Got to talk about it.

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That was a huge sort of elephant
in the room, if you like,

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throughout this presentation.
And and to your, to round off

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your point there, Matt, you're
absolutely right.

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It's they want optionality.
They, you know, they oddly

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enough, are attracted to having
to, to just learning really fast

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in an evolving industry.
And they think that arcadiums

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like multiple different projects
at different stages and, and

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00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,360
expertise along the value chain
let's them maybe have like a

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competitive edge in learning
faster than than PS as well.

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00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,400
But DLA, this is, this is
fascinating, right?

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We, we talked about it on our
show that we put up two days ago

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that we were, you know, pretty.
We, we, we'd become aware that

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Brea had invested a bunch of
money in DLA and that they're,

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they're pretty buoyant the
outlook of DLA.

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And I think that's going to, you
know, even lower the brines that

225
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,120
they have access to in Argentina
even further on the cost curve

226
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,320
and create more, more, you know,
and even it's got a steeper

227
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,080
outlook there.
But I'll play a snippet from,

228
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,920
from, from the guys on this.
Look, the, the main question I

229
00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,360
have is really around synergies
relating to technology.

230
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:46,640
So Rio's invested a lot in DLE
as has Liden and and all can.

231
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,400
And when you sort of put that
all together, what does that?

232
00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:54,320
Realise in terms of production
synergies or cost synergies at

233
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,080
the three brine operations in
Argentina or 4 brine operations,

234
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:03,560
I should say, in Argentina.
Well, first of all, and I let

235
00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:06,040
the Paul talk about the
technology because he knows more

236
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,080
about it than I do.
But I've actually started it

237
00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,600
quite a lot and spent enormous
amount of time with, with our

238
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,640
people and, and I spent the week
in Argentina looking at it the

239
00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:18,920
first hand this year as well is
if you just take a step back,

240
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,600
you are having a small lithium
industry today and you have a

241
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,160
lot of still the traditional
pond solution.

242
00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:28,520
If you want to scale that up in
Latin America.

243
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,480
I mean, you're going to destroy
the Enders.

244
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,480
If, if, if there's going to be
ponds all over the DLE

245
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,480
technology is a way of, of
reducing your, your, your nature

246
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,440
footprint and the, the
technology is developing all the

247
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:46,560
time and it is actually the
solution to provide the lesion

248
00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:50,640
that the world needs.
And don't forget that it was

249
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,560
really arcadium that started it
many, many years ago.

250
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:57,560
You're The Pioneers of it and,
and we are the fast follower and

251
00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:00,040
bringing our research people
together with your people.

252
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,240
We already had a, a first little
event there last week.

253
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,400
There's a lot ahead of us and we
haven't explored it fully yet.

254
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,080
There's the right technology,
but there's also a tremendous

255
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,680
technology development journey
ahead of us.

256
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,800
Yeah, just just like I think
it's important to understand

257
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,520
that, that extracting lithium
carbonate from brine is not a

258
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:25,720
single step process, easily 2025
steps in that process and DLE

259
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,760
fits into a flow sheet into a
process.

260
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,160
So it's really important to have
them know how how the entire

261
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,880
process works and how the
different DL ES interact with

262
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,920
specific brine, specific
environmental conditions.

263
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:43,800
The key to unlocking initial
implementation of DLE tends to

264
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,080
be that know how plus
infrastructure.

265
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,480
But once you have unlocked it,
it's incredibly quickly

266
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,320
replicable.
And so it allows you to expand

267
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,640
much more quickly.
And so when you think about

268
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,720
synergies, I think this
opportunity to bring our know

269
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,280
how and our DLE with the, the,
if you will, the unlocking

270
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,120
potential of the ability to
invest more quickly in the, in

271
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,040
the infrastructure.
It just makes a massive

272
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,280
difference to the ability to
bring resources on.

273
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,240
And most importantly, it's not
just bringing them on, it's the

274
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,680
ability to then just, we call it
copy paste.

275
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:18,440
Just copy, paste, copy, paste.
And you can expand as quickly as

276
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,440
you need to once you have that
flowsheet running and once you

277
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:22,840
have the infrastructure in
place.

278
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,200
Is there like, so you're you're
coming around lower, Obviously

279
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,400
lowering the cost curve is like
if, if they bring DLA in and

280
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,920
make it be able to operate these
bronze cheaper.

281
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,040
But then they'll assume there's
also the part where the ability

282
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,080
to steepen that cost curve even
more by actually having the

283
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,560
ability to bring more bronze
online because of the water

284
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,640
issues.
I think that flattens.

285
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,440
I think by applying DLE to the
existing brines you steepen it

286
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,320
because if you just think of the
brains at the bottom already

287
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,120
they go lower.
So a net you Costco steepened

288
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,400
but if you scaled it out, and
this is a point Goldman Sachs

289
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:05,400
made in there DLE note like 12
months ago, if DLE is scalable

290
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,680
then your marginal producer
isn't spodumene, it gets kicked

291
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:09,880
off.
Well, that's it, because

292
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,240
wouldn't QQ one Q2 sort of be a
little bit flatter and then it

293
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,400
just goes?
Because the the.

294
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,520
Promise assumes that assumes
that's still there and

295
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,560
producing.
You might not need that because

296
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,720
you satisfy your entire demand
by what is capable of being

297
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,840
produced.
Because the promise is that the

298
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:29,960
recoveries go from 40 to 60% of
your standard pond project to 70

299
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,280
to 90%.
So if you think about that in an

300
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,800
annual production basis, each of
those projects is producing way

301
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,600
more, so they get widened down.
It's double.

302
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,040
Yeah.
And then you also have the the

303
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,120
added benefits of the ramp up
being much quicker.

304
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,760
They're sort of talking about 18
months quicker in general.

305
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,560
Remember DLA is a catch all kind
of concept.

306
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,160
It's not just one set of
technologies.

307
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,440
So yeah, the the potential
ramifications, I think just

308
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,680
listen back to that bit again
and just and hear it.

309
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,360
It is very interesting what they
sort of got planned and what

310
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,200
they're saying around it.
I found that super, super

311
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,560
fascinating.
If you think of who the major 3

312
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,800
Brian producers are going to be
in the West now, it's SQM,

313
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,880
Albemarle and Rio Tinto and all
three of them are going to have

314
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,440
exposure to Spider Man as well.
So they'll probably be conscious

315
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,800
about, you know, putting too
much supply from Bryan's to the

316
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,000
market because they want, they
want the tail of the cost curve

317
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,000
to still be there so you can
have massive margins on the

318
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:24,880
Bryan's.
Yeah.

319
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,440
But I think the implications
for, you know, the marginal spot

320
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,320
projects out there pretty
terminal.

321
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,400
So it's sort of setting it up to
be similar to the iron ore cost

322
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,880
curve in a way.
That's the dream, that's what

323
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,480
you'd want.
But it's there's no guarantee

324
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:43,000
you'd get that because, yeah,
you need like, and people

325
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,720
speculated for a long period of
time that the iron ore cost

326
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,320
curve would flatten out as you
had.

327
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,720
It just had a pretty sticky kind
of high cost, high cost tail

328
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,000
there that that that hung around
and was together than people

329
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,880
predicted for longer.
You know, the people who study

330
00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,880
the iron ore market do think it
will get flatter over time,

331
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:01,960
especially as the African supply
comes on.

332
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,319
Yeah, but that, but that's
counting on a lot of the higher

333
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:08,680
cost ones dropping off
completely.

334
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,920
All the world coming off it's
plateau of steel production, so

335
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:18,160
IE demand going the other way.
It is.

336
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,240
It's funny how quick the DLA
thing is just coming to flavour

337
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:23,640
again.
Like, just like that, yeah.

338
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,240
Super interesting.
And it's like Arcadia and he

339
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,440
said they were, they kind of
pioneer DLA, which is it's true,

340
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,080
but what they, what they do,
they actually pre concentrate in

341
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,360
evaporation ponds 1st and then
run DLA.

342
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:40,000
So there's no cost advantages
from, from DLA, Arcadium's DLA

343
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:43,960
yet.
But you're kind of you're

344
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,040
betting on the, you know, the
evolution of this sort of

345
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:47,960
technology over time in some
way, shape or form too.

346
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,680
And hopefully they're acquiring
the people with the technical

347
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,120
expertise that have the best
chance of getting out there too.

348
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:55,320
Well, it's a.
It's a, it's a big play to be

349
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,840
the first like, I don't know,
because they got a lot.

350
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,960
They're thinking obviously we're
going to be the first bulk DLA

351
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,480
lot and they're obviously
thinking of replacing

352
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,800
evaporation with DLA lot.
That's a big first move.

353
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,160
Apply, which is, yeah.
Yeah.

354
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:15,200
And this tingles me tremendous.
Like, yeah, like you said, the

355
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,360
environmental benefits, if you
could do that, shouldn't be

356
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:19,280
understated either.
Like, you know, there's, there's

357
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:25,080
real considerations for, for the
Andes, for the Atkama,

358
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,600
everything like that.
If you know when it comes to

359
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,240
just like your, your ability to
access freshwater, but if you if

360
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,360
you have DLA, then those things,
right, Yeah.

361
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,440
Which goes hand in hand with
better permitting, right?

362
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,680
If there's less land
disturbance, that should improve

363
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,880
permitting times as well.
Yeah, yeah.

364
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,720
So what about what about the
Argentina sort of things?

365
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,400
This is interesting.
We've got we've got to talk

366
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,200
about it.
So there was a why don't we

367
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,320
start with the the snippet from
Jacob on Argentina and the the

368
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,640
Rise of Argentina?
Not S OK.

369
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,000
Thanks very much.
Other than I should say that

370
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,440
actually gave me an opening to
say we are super delighted with

371
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,520
the new legislation in
Argentina, the rigging

372
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,960
legislation that is actually,
you really should study that.

373
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:12,560
That's super attractive and
that's going to help us not just

374
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,960
in terms of a an attractive tax
scheme, but also in a downside

375
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,200
scenario, it provides a lot of
protections for our investments

376
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,560
in Argentina.
So the Riggy legislation that

377
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,200
he's talking about, it sort of
loosely translates to regulation

378
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,320
of incentive regime for large
investments.

379
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,040
They're talking about tax
advantages, customs, and, you

380
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,320
know, other sort of support
around property rights, things

381
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,720
that have traditionally been a
bit of a challenge in in those

382
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,000
kinds of parts of the world.
And the benefits should be valid

383
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,360
for 30 years on projects worth
more than US $200 million.

384
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:48,560
And Yacob had spoken in the past
about how it materially changed

385
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,720
the economics for Rincon, the
project that they already have

386
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,400
there.
And I think it's just great to

387
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:58,000
see it'll have huge, huge
advantages for the country.

388
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,680
It's not the the sort of be on
be all end all that.

389
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,400
There are a couple other bits of
legislation that need to be

390
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,440
refined in Argentina,
specifically regarding currency

391
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,520
and capital controls.
These have historically also

392
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,880
been a challenge in Argentina,
but it's a huge step in the

393
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,040
right direction in my opinion.
Could be a a great sort of.

394
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,880
Catalyst to getting more foreign
investment in a country that in

395
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,160
terms of mining, let alone all
the other sort of potential the

396
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,200
country has just a phenomenal
potential outcomes and yeah,

397
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,840
kind of really hope that they
can fulfil that advantage.

398
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,680
And we've seen a lot of positive
steps for them BHP going in

399
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,120
there, Rio and hopefully other
companies kind of follow and

400
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:38,560
there's a a stable environment
for that to be a a promising

401
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,960
place.
The, the, the wording there

402
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,320
where, where he said that
downside protection is, is super

403
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,320
attractive because that's the
fear you have.

404
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,880
If you have a change of, of, of
regime based on like a meal, a

405
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,360
government's in change of regime
is that it might be attractive

406
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,160
right now to invest, but what
if, what if that government's

407
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,440
out?
Then there's the tide turns.

408
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,400
But like the the long the long
term kind of downside

409
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,360
protection, there is clearly
like what's been a big factor in

410
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,080
in seeing a phenomenal amount of
excitement about investing in

411
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,960
Argentina again.
And then the shareholder

412
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,200
response has been quite
humorous, hasn't it?

413
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,000
Have you ever seen shareholders
more unhappy to be getting a 90%

414
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,920
off in 2 days?
So it's it's, it's kind of yeah,

415
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,400
is.
That where it's striding at, now

416
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,000
it's.
It's pretty damn close.

417
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,640
It's like five, 5%.
That's like from the

418
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,120
undisturbed, isn't it?
Yeah.

419
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:33,480
Yeah, it's, it's because people
anchor the high prices and, and

420
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,400
also like, you know, if if Rio
were able to execute on what

421
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,240
they think they can do with this
business, then of course Ria's

422
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:40,520
going to get shit load of
upside.

423
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,640
They're paying cash now and, and
Arcadium shareholders don't get

424
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,560
the benefit of it.
But at the end of the day, like

425
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:48,200
I just this, this deal goes
through.

426
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,560
There's there's no, there's not
going to be any uplift by kind

427
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,760
of agitating.
Now there's my opinion, there's

428
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:58,000
not going to be any interlope,
but this is you've got to be

429
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,880
pretty happy with it. 90% uplift
in two days even if you're down,

430
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,000
which most Arcadium shareholders
are.

431
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,840
Interesting comment on from
Yakub as well on making the most

432
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:11,680
of the of the commodity cycles
you have to pay in cash, he

433
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,120
said.
It's sort of interesting.

434
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:15,760
But not raise money because I
don't want to fucking ride 200

435
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,320
KS a week.
You got to do it too, Trev.

436
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,440
It's got to be like, you know,
the commodity cycle is going to

437
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,480
be as dire as like, yeah, GFC,
right?

438
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,520
It's just going to be super dire
for we had ever considered

439
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:30,680
raising money ain't gonna.
Happen.

440
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,560
Yeah, I don't like the I know we
said like, you know, Mount

441
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,880
Catlins like a non a non core
part of this deal.

442
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,120
And it's like you just don't
want the DD to go fuck for ages

443
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:43,520
buggering around with it.
I think they need to look at, I

444
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,920
don't know whether spinning it
out, they need to get Kaydrill

445
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,280
down there to start peppering
Mount Catlin and figure out if

446
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,960
there's gold or lithium or
something to just make this

447
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,360
process go smoother.
I think that's probably a first

448
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:56,200
step from Rea.
The short My Life was the

449
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,320
problem there.
So the quick way to resolve that

450
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,400
is just get Kaydrill down there.
Also diamond the shit out of

451
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:06,480
that joint and figure out what
Mount Catlin's true identity is

452
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,320
and look spin out.
I've asked something, I just

453
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,240
don't want to say it.
Hold up the deal.

454
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,400
I think Kaydrill probably
integral to getting this done by

455
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,680
May or possibly before.
Why Kaydrill and and no one

456
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:21,080
else?
Maddie.

457
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,240
Oh.
Just trying to think off the top

458
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,680
of me actually.
It's funny talking about these

459
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,320
sponsors.
I just can't think of comp

460
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,320
competitors like I'll just it's
just starts.

461
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,240
Nothing comes to.
Mind, no, nothing like comes to

462
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,600
mind.
Sorry, I don't want to sit here

463
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,200
pausing so I'm just going to say
I don't know anyone that else

464
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,760
that does it purely simple.
Why would you need to?

465
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,520
Now you just call Druba.
Yeah, who?

466
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,120
Who else is better to talk about
a contract with?

467
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,320
K Drew.
Because you get to have a beer

468
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,120
with him.
Call K Drew Rio Arcade him sort

469
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:57,280
it out now.
Beautiful, good, great segment.

470
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,880
Boys love this is is this one of
the more excite?

471
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,760
Is this more exciting than BHP
and Anglo talking about?

472
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,280
It no.
It feels exciting.

473
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,320
It is exciting, but that was an
enormous, that was an enormous

474
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,360
deal, right?
Yeah, perspective deal like that

475
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,000
was hostile.
Hostile deal was always more

476
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,480
fun, yeah.
Because it because it didn't

477
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:18,600
look like it was going to
happen.

478
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,600
This one looks so and so both
sides.

479
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,120
Wanted to do it.
Yeah, so many moving parts to

480
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:23,760
that one as well.
I.

481
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:24,720
Thought it was trying to run
away.

482
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,400
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

483
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,920
It's more fun.
I like the the whole, the, the

484
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,200
future of this is what it's
what's exciting me, the

485
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,000
absolutely pivotal shift in
probably our thinking as well of

486
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,080
what the future of lithium is
going to look like.

487
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,200
I mean they talk about it a 10%
K gain lithium through to 2040.

488
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,400
It's a sort of rough number, but
that's.

489
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,240
Yeah, that's and that's another
like we didn't really talk about

490
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,400
it too much it, but like the
implications for the for the

491
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,480
sector, like there's a lot of
bad yeah, for what's the what's

492
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:05,720
the landscape look like as well.
I mean, yeah, there's, there's I

493
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,840
don't, I don't know.
I think, I think like there's

494
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:13,720
there's so many like lithium
developers out there with a spot

495
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,600
project of some description and
like what's, what's their future

496
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,040
look like?
I think they'd probably end up,

497
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,760
you know, merging to have
relevance to.

498
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,640
Was there comments from or
something talking about like

499
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,920
spod won't be forever?
Like was it or remember comments

500
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,440
something like that They
identified like spods, not the

501
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,600
long mightn't be the long term
thing on the higher cost end

502
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,040
thought they might kind of make
money while they can because

503
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,320
obviously this is very, very
long term stuff that we're

504
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,080
talking about with Rayo of
shifting the cost curve and

505
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,280
everything.
It's not going to happen like

506
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,200
that.
Yeah, it's like there's long

507
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,120
term, but you know, producing
now they didn't buy.

508
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,920
Yeah, it already like the bronze
already are lower cost.

509
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,960
But yeah, I think I've heard
that comment about the window of

510
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,240
being able to, you know, make
good money and with you and all

511
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,320
that sort of stuff.
But yeah.

512
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:04,760
Good stuff, right?
I love making a big segment out

513
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,040
of a one page pre quarterly,
which is so which is what's

514
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:10,080
happening.
Maddie, Michael.

515
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,880
Which what happened with Regis
today, so produced what they got

516
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,760
94 1/2 thousand oz for the
September quarter right at the

517
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,120
upper end of their guidance.
So good, good on the outs front,

518
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:25,000
added 85 million cash to the
balance sheet.

519
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,560
So since I closed out that hedge
book, the Legacy 1 three

520
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,440
quarters ago, they've added 225
mil free cash.

521
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,480
So they're in printing mode at
the moment.

522
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,600
So total cash sitting at 380
million.

523
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,600
Now remember they've got the 300
mil bullet repayment due in May

524
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,280
2025 for the Tropicana state
purchase.

525
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,360
Don't know if that's going to be
refinanced or paid or nothing.

526
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:49,720
Don't know yet.
Gotcha.

527
00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:52,880
But that's don't forget that
one.

528
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,720
So not not sure so.
It's just a deferred payment for

529
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:56,960
DROP that they've still got to
make.

530
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,880
It it is the final bullet
payment.

531
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,440
For the facility.
Yeah, OK.

532
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,880
But you don't be, we don't know
if that's going to be refinanced

533
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,440
or they're going to pay and who
knows.

534
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,560
So not sure how much CapEx and
exploration was spent this

535
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,520
deployed for the quarter so far
because they've got was it 80

536
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,880
midpoint 80 mil growth capital
and about 37 and a bit for

537
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,760
exploration peg fare for 25.
So I'm not sure if they've that

538
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,120
was light on, heavy on or if
this was that 85 truly reflects

539
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:34,480
what the year's going to be.
But look, if gold price persists

540
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,800
at this rate, then being
unhedged like they could have

541
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,160
close to bringing 250 bucks in
the in cash by the end of the

542
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,800
financial year, even after that
bullet repayment.

543
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,920
So there it's obviously looking
like it's set up for a pretty,

544
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,480
pretty good year for them now
they've sorted the hedging out

545
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,800
and and everything so.
That's super impressive.

546
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,240
Yeah.
So look, and everyone taught

547
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,800
like on the back of the whole
Mcfillimmys thing and like they

548
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,400
need a growth project and like
all that.

549
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,160
But you know, I think I just
feel that with gold, people

550
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,120
sometimes get caught up in the
whole reserves thing with gold,

551
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:16,760
but it's just one of those Jake
Denali as what, 800,000 ounces

552
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,920
in reserves?
But it's just it just reminds me

553
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,480
of working at so many gold mines
where you've just only ever got

554
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,560
a one or two year mine life and
they go for a decade like open a

555
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,800
depth and they just gold unless
it just gets miraculously cut

556
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,240
off like a waddle dam it just it
it tends to keep going.

557
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,880
So it's just something to keep
in mind.

558
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,720
Like Dukedon's like they got
frigging 10 million tonne of

559
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,840
mill capacity there, 7 and a
halfs in operation, 2 and a

560
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,680
halfs in care and maintenance.
Shit lot of infrastructure so

561
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,680
and garden well and Rosemont
like aren't actually that deep.

562
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,880
Like when you look at it on the
cross sections, right Rosemont's

563
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,160
only sort of proven up to 700
metres appears to have like this

564
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,640
shallow plunging corridor.
So it's like obviously a lot

565
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,280
more lateral to get out there,
but looks like still open there

566
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,120
garden well down to 500 metres
on one side, 750 on the other,

567
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,280
like potential for bits in
between.

568
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,480
Because if you think of like
when the gold price is high,

569
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,320
you've got the infrastructure in
place, you've got the

570
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,880
underground.
It's pretty it's easier to

571
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,240
sacrifice some grade, piggyback
off the infrastructure and the

572
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,760
existing development to go
access other areas if you're

573
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,520
already in there.
So there there's there's a lot

574
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,560
of and and still make free cash
off it.

575
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,160
So there's a lot of I see
there's still being a lot of

576
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,520
long term potential that duked
and just looking at without,

577
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,080
without going in the weeds too
much about the geology and

578
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,640
everything because I fucking
don't know.

579
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,920
But yeah, it's not, it's not
like a frigging oh, there's two

580
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:48,960
years left.
You think?

581
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,480
You think you'll always just
have a?

582
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,000
You know there's two.
Year reserves ahead of you in

583
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:53,880
just.
Rolling.

584
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,480
It's fucking that's what
Paulson's was like.

585
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,640
That's was that's what Telfa was
like.

586
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,320
That's what like Daisy Milano
for silver, like still gone like

587
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,600
and you just keep there's
options everywhere just to keep

588
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,000
going.
It's so it's just gold mining in

589
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,840
general.
It's kind of their their job to

590
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,640
make the market really, you
know, within bounds aware of

591
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:14,880
that, right?
Yeah.

592
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,080
Lead them to kind of think that
like these things, this has gone

593
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,480
on for so long and it will keep
going on 'cause that's clearly

594
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,720
the, the, the, the shortage of
reserve life is the angst that

595
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,280
people have over the stock so.
Yeah, it's not, it's not a it's

596
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,040
different to a pit.
Like it's not like the reserves,

597
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,600
you got a reserve because you
get to the point right you where

598
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,720
cutbacks just aren't fucking
feasible.

599
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,000
Yeah, just keep chucking a level
on in underground.

600
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,320
Yeah, and it and it doesn't make
sense to drill out to reserves

601
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,240
level confidence when you are
underground.

602
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,200
Well, you can't.
Well, you can, but it doesn't

603
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,440
make sense to add more than two
years worth to you but but.

604
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,440
You can't like to to do it like
AD you have to put in some

605
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,720
friggin huge exploration drives
because and really long holes

606
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,040
and then to get the reserve
confidence at depth cost you

607
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,120
shit loads of money.
It's just easier to

608
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,480
incrementally do it as you go on
the, as long as you Chuck some

609
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,960
long holes in this to confirm
the continuity so you know it's

610
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,280
there and then you just do it as
you go, so.

611
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,800
So tell us about the the
valuation.

612
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,560
Then well, and Tropicana as well
before I get there, JD, they fly

613
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,280
and you look at their, their,
you know, multiple potential

614
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:25,960
undergrounds there.
I think they've got 3 going at

615
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,280
the moment just to prove the
Havana underground as well.

616
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,400
It's pretty it's, it's a big
plant there, but nine and half

617
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:39,320
million tonne at at trop.
So I believe it is like modular

618
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:40,760
in a way.
Like I think you could drop

619
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,360
tanks off.
You could probably drop some of

620
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:48,960
the the grinding circuits off
and drop it down to like a 4

621
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,640
million, four or five million
tonne operation if it did go

622
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,520
pure underground.
So I think what's the, I'm not

623
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,120
sure how much the pits have got
left there.

624
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,840
I think it might only be a
couple of years or something.

625
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,040
So that's yeah, I'll get, I'll
get to that in a bit.

626
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,640
So.
So many regions today has got

627
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,040
about just over 1 1/2 billion,
you know, market cap and sort of

628
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,760
net net kind of cash, cash debt.
You know, they've got the sort

629
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,520
of what appears to be the
highest FY25 all in sustaining

630
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,720
guidance out of sort of the ASX
listed Aussie peers or the

631
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,680
midpoint of like Aussie 2590 an
ounce.

632
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,240
So they're obviously super
leveraged to movements in the

633
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,080
gold price.
And interestingly, you know,

634
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,120
peers with, you know, similar
size production profiles who

635
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,320
have some, you know, pretty
decent size, you know, cash ward

636
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,680
chess as well.
So this is vault, the old red 5,

637
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,440
which was the old silver, like
Remelius and West gold.

638
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,320
Their their market caps are in
the sort of mid to low 2

639
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,520
billion.
So they're, they're a fair bit

640
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,600
cheaper, you know, on, on this
space as compared to those guys.

641
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,640
But you know, like we sort of
said before, their production

642
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,240
profiles, you know, going
forwards, you know, pretty flat

643
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,960
for the next few years.
And that growth project, you

644
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,720
know, Mcphillamys isn't there
anymore.

645
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,880
And that's, as we said, we sort
of, you know, perhaps people

646
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,400
are, you know, discounting
radius on that basis.

647
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,040
So do you think they'd be in the
market for another growth

648
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:28,280
project to replace Mcphillamys?
Just keep going camera and

649
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,040
talking at Dukedan and Tropicana
and just focus on that?

650
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:37,800
Or alternatively, add themselves
to someone else's production

651
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,200
profile.
You'll have someone else add

652
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:40,760
them to their production
profile.

653
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,280
Yeah, there's some of these buy
back.

654
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,080
Or buy back.
Come on.

655
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,320
What about return?
No M&A?

656
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,480
No.
M&A.

657
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,600
Your deal?
You want a backer Anything, no.

658
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,080
They've got every single option
up their sleeve like them and

659
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,720
they've got, yes, they've got
the higher all in sustaining

660
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,640
cost, but they're producing
double the answers or they're

661
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,560
producing 400,000 oz compared to
someone that's lower cost

662
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,000
producing 200,000 oz, you're
going to make more money.

663
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:14,400
Producing double.
The Oz usually, yeah, as I said,

664
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,719
I'll see him as a bit of a
Silver Lake at the moment like

665
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,360
starting to go on that
trajectory flight probably

666
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:24,320
flying under the radar a bit
like unhedged cash harvest mode

667
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,199
85 mil for the quarter.
That's pretty unreal like

668
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,920
considering Capricorn added what
20 bit less than 20 Emerald

669
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:36,000
added 18.
So it's it's pretty good gun on.

670
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,480
That comparison Maddie Silver
like that wouldn't they were

671
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,199
known for being, you know, just
kind of focused on managing

672
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,760
costs cash harvested never had
too much reserves ahead of him,

673
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,600
but he kept kept going.
Regis is basically in the last

674
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,400
couple of years transitioned
from being an open pit miner to

675
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,880
an underground miner.
And as time goes on almost going

676
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,560
to be purely in underground
minor like are they do they have

677
00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:00,440
a reputation as being like, you
know, good under they just got

678
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,440
like contractors in doing doing.
Yeah, yeah.

679
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:08,280
And they've got that's
different.

680
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,640
So I think Tropicana because
they're not the operator.

681
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,680
That's how McMahon's are there.
But like, I mean KOV, yeah,

682
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,840
they've they've had the duked
and contracts there.

683
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,800
So it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's hard to hard to say if

684
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,040
anyone's like a a good, good
reputable underground mine a lot

685
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,640
the the contract does a lot of
the contractor does most of the

686
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,000
work, probably not the
technical.

687
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,920
So I but I think they, I think
the contractors like heavily I

688
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,640
know, but those big contracts,
yeah.

689
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,560
And you know, bar Minko, I've
got them at like Sunrise DM and

690
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,960
and with Regis and had the big 1
and I think they're those

691
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,680
alliance types of structures.
You've got the there's a pretty

692
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,040
the contractor have a lot of
input into the technical side as

693
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,320
well with the with the
underground expertise.

694
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,200
So I think there's that
relationship there that you're

695
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,920
leaning on them a lot, which I
think this is what the juked 1

696
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,960
is as well.
But I'll just yeah, I think the

697
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,200
the investment banks would be
licking their lips, looking at

698
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,600
Regis at the moment.
Like no one, no one makes money

699
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,440
out of them just doing buybacks
and divvies.

700
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,600
And it's no fun printing cash.
There's no food on the table for

701
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,480
anyone.
Like that's shareholders do

702
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,560
shareholders do, but not like,
not the investment banks like

703
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,680
they're they're.
Not the 601, right?

704
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:31,320
The 6011 crew struggling to get
by got to think of that, but as

705
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,040
they could, the options, as you
decided, could pay dividends,

706
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,720
could start a buy back.
Could they could just continue

707
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:42,200
Trop and Dukeden for freaking
seven years or something.

708
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,280
And just similar to what silver
like did with the mount manga

709
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,800
tenements and and ever they did
add on, you know, the doorway

710
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,520
assets and everything.
But like they could just

711
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,680
continue that trajectory and
build a build a cash ball just

712
00:36:54,680 --> 00:37:01,560
similar to what Remelius did.
The most logical first M&A play,

713
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:04,800
I think would be trying to get
100% of Tropicana.

714
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,760
So you think of I think I think
sunrise, damn, I don't think is

715
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,640
like I've heard four or five
years or something or that might

716
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,960
be left there.
And then once the pits finish at

717
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,920
Tropicana and it just like they
mightn't be able to feed the 9.5

718
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,960
million tonne anymore.
Like maybe Anglo Goldashani

719
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,120
might look to de Australia
themselves a bit like whether

720
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,400
that might be their exit out of
Australia, don't know.

721
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,960
And then the fact that the mill
there is like modular, they

722
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,640
could downscale Tropicana and if
Regis then like right, we've got

723
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:46,440
the underground expertise at
Duketon, we're already at

724
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,960
Tropicana got first right for
it.

725
00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:53,400
I assume similar, similar to a
great land gold situation with

726
00:37:53,520 --> 00:38:00,000
Avran Telfer, like getting 100%
of Tropicana and feeding those

727
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,120
like creating like maybe what a
4 million tonne underground

728
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,840
operation continuing the depths
of all those.

729
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,480
That's that's that would be a
play.

730
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:14,200
They paid 900 for their 30% when
gold price was a lot lower.

731
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,600
Yeah, so I wonder what they'd
have to pay for the other 70.

732
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,840
Depends if you'd be able to, if
you'd have to take sunrise as

733
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,360
well.
And and that's the thing.

734
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,040
I don't know what the I don't
know what the exploration

735
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,880
potential is of sunrise, if
there's like if that can,

736
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,760
because that's only 4 million
tonnelling.

737
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,960
So it's not as big of a mill as
Tropicana.

738
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:36,840
No, I'm not sure what the if
there's much more non Anglo

739
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,920
Goldishani mining to be done
there or not, I don't know I

740
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,240
have any info on that, but it
looks like Tropicana has got a

741
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:45,960
lot of underground potential in
for multiple mines.

742
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,800
So that'll be one.
Yeah.

743
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,320
And price tag permitting a.
Bit yeah and having the the

744
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,120
right is helpful because if
Anglo left and someone else put

745
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,200
a bitch or just match it.
But would you, would they, do

746
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,880
you think they'd get it a bit
cheaper if Anglo wanted out and

747
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,640
just take on the liability, the
liabilities for it or not?

748
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:05,840
What?
Are the like that wouldn't be

749
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,680
too much.
They have to be a bit of rehab

750
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,800
and stuff.
But whoever buys it has to take

751
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:10,960
it on, right?
Yeah.

752
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,040
But do you?
But do you?

753
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:19,200
Do you pay more for 30% on a
percentage basis than you would

754
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,760
to take the whole thing off
someone that wanted to get out?

755
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,560
I reckon they'd have to pay
yeah, 2 like 2 billion I guess

756
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,120
for 70.
So yeah, you're right.

757
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,880
That's yeah, that's one buddy.
That is one option anyway, so.

758
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,680
Who else is on the shopping?
List now, well, like let's let's

759
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,400
work our way up the size of M&A
and we'll come to the big

760
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,120
humdinger at the end.
Start big, then go smaller.

761
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,000
Well, if you took smaller, like
smallerish M&A right now, maybe

762
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,680
they could like if they wanted
to, you know, add answers to

763
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,640
their profile, be the taker,
maybe like some opportunity in

764
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,320
the northern merch to make like
what catalyst is one that's

765
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,480
probably probably gets thrown
around like they're well,

766
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,840
they're 630 more market cap now
looking to produce 200,000 oz.

767
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,760
I I reckon getting rid of Henty
would be the preference or the

768
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,120
the issue because it I don't
think anyone I don't know if

769
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,680
they wouldn't want Henty, but
you do get the platonic

770
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,280
infrastructure pretty big goal
belt with good.

771
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,640
Good historical production like
you could pinch maybe maker as

772
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,480
well send the Andy well high
grade up to the platonic thing.

773
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:28,320
There's a bit of a weather,
yeah.

774
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:29,760
So that's that's a bit out
there, but.

775
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,200
I think the difficulty with that
is they've catalysts have had

776
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,760
such a good run.
I mean, I mean, it's been quite

777
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,680
the turn around, you know,
process and story and things

778
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,240
like that.
And they've had such a good run.

779
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:43,880
And so it's like, you know,
they'll probably want to keep

780
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,360
keep the good times going and
actually execute on that growth

781
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,040
strategy from like around
100,000 ounces to 200.

782
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,600
So whether they'd they'd want to
sort of, you know, perhaps cut

783
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,360
that momentum short, I don't
know.

784
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,400
But it could be another new hub
for.

785
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,160
But yeah, everything has a price
and it could be another sort of

786
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,800
new hub for for ages
potentially.

787
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,960
Yeah, now let's let's have some
fun.

788
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,200
Let's this is the good this.
Is a good one.

789
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,920
Because Spartan comes to mind.
Ding, Ding, Ding.

790
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,520
Oh, good work, Jodie.
Still gone.

791
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,040
You'd think would there's
there's an obvious reason why

792
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,840
this can't happen.
We'll I'll get which I'll get

793
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,200
to, but Spartan with Regis
equivalent market caps at the

794
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,720
moment.
So they'd be like, yeah, and

795
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:35,040
similar to Red 5 and Silver Lake
in a way where like your Regis

796
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,120
Cash could sort the funding out
for Dalgaranga.

797
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,880
You'd have 33 pretty long life
operations between Duke and

798
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,680
Tropicana and Dalgaranga.
But Remelius in there holding

799
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:51,320
the Spartan Keys with the 20%
holding, Imagine putting all

800
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,360
three together.
Jesus, that'd be.

801
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,600
What a company.
Mate like you could create a

802
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,720
1,000,000 oz producer,
potentially 5 big assets,

803
00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:04,680
Dalgaranga, mount magnet,
Rebecca, duked and Tropicana.

804
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,880
That'd be like a bloody northern
star WA focused still you still

805
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,320
get to actually use because then
you could send Dalgaranga down

806
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:18,400
to Chequers use some of the
Dalgaranga mill which would

807
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:19,960
probably happen anyway from
Melius.

808
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,520
Took Spartan to get down to to
start building Rebecca because I

809
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,400
think getting Karasu Dam off
Northern star at the right price

810
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,280
is going to be very very hard,
near impossible.

811
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,600
So I'm not I'm not even not
banking on that happening.

812
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,920
If they also downsize the
Tropicana mill eventually then

813
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,440
you got bits there.
You can Chuck it Rebecca as well

814
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,880
which would like just pace.
It's a bit of like a

815
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,280
Frankenstein.
You got half a mill, you got

816
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:52,280
half a mill already.
And yeah, I reckon I'm rooting

817
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,760
for that as an outcome.
Imagine that that could be.

818
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,040
The that'd be cool that.
'D be up there with the Northern

819
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:01,360
Star and it's like it's not much
wasted infrastructure between

820
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,560
them because there's synergies
of one thing, but it's like

821
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:09,120
having too much Remilius W Guild
might have too much milling in

822
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,280
the same area and waste in a
bit.

823
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,080
You say you're.
All for.

824
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,120
Divvy it up and put it to where
you need it sort of thing, yeah.

825
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:22,240
That's that'll 6011.
Would never be happier if that

826
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:23,800
happened.
Oh boy.

827
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,960
Any other ones that you think?
No, I'm a fan of the buyback

828
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,800
shareholder distributions,
especially if you're talking

829
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,960
about the the stock being like
relatively cheap.

830
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,160
That's the right time to do a
return like that.

831
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,200
And it's not the right time to
do a kind of deal if you're

832
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,840
thinking you're so much cheap,
if you're talking about yourself

833
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,040
trading at half the the kind of
multiple of a company that's

834
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,680
making less cash than you.
And why would you use that point

835
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,720
in time to use any sort of,
dude, they don't have enough

836
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:53,120
cash yet to do something real
chunky.

837
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,440
They could, you know, sign up a
bit of debt and do like that.

838
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,080
But Even so, you'd probably be
thinking about issuing some sort

839
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,840
of script or using that in one
way or another.

840
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,440
And again, then you're falling
back on the problem on yourself

841
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,960
being pretty cheap.
So maybe in time to try and.

842
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,400
A bit of both maybe.
I mean, Persis is done like 5

843
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,760
different things at the same
time as an example.

844
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,880
Not to say you've got to do
that, but yeah.

845
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,840
Because I have.
Way more cash, but they've got

846
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,040
way more.
Cash.

847
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,560
Yeah, they're like where Regis?
Could be want to.

848
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,720
Be yeah, time or something.
Yeah, I mean we talked about,

849
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,280
you know, Regis being somewhat
vulnerable, you know, given

850
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,840
their relative, they they screen
just on a freak out like price

851
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,600
to cash flow pretty low compared
to their peers.

852
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:36,920
Are they vulnerable to someone
who wants to get bigger?

853
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,880
Well, if they are, and that's
the most attractive way for

854
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,800
other parties to allocate their
money, then they should allocate

855
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,760
their own money to doing that
too, because assumably this is

856
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,040
the same, you know,
opportunities are out there for

857
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,600
them as their peers.
That's I think that's how like

858
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:53,920
good capital allocators should
think.

859
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,520
I think it's how gold companies
tend to think.

860
00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,360
And I think the more likely
thing is they'll buy something.

861
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:04,400
And yeah, I think Ravenswoods
for sale and he's going to sell

862
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,720
like a listening to your
interview with Owen Haggerty.

863
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,880
They're gonna, they're going to
trade sell, but that's going to

864
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:10,720
be trade sale.
Yeah.

865
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:12,000
So they'll have to distribute
the cash.

866
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,000
Someone's going to buy that.
Yeah.

867
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,320
And it's whether they want to
have themselves in multiple

868
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,040
jurisdictions by the Queensland
side and the WA side.

869
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:23,760
So whether they're comfortable
with that.

870
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:28,800
I'm I'm not sure how much of A
hindrance that is or not, if

871
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,800
that's a a big thing or not
rather than being WA focused.

872
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,400
Not sure but I.
Guess they're already.

873
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,360
That something.
To I guess they're already kind

874
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,120
of doing that before.
I mean, they had filamies on the

875
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,400
other side of the country and,
you know, everything else here.

876
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,720
So it's not something they
haven't, you know, done before.

877
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,160
Well, what's the metrics on
Ravenswood be probably over a

878
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:51,840
billion price tag.
What are they producing?

879
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,840
It's it's 400,000 ounces. 33 oz.
I don't know for sure, but a

880
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,560
three, 3:00-ish, yeah.
It was big tonnes, low grade.

881
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:01,200
Sounds about right.
I think it's a copy of Credit

882
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,800
too.
Yeah, evolution, have a look at

883
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,880
that.
Evolution makes sense with the

884
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,080
QLD exposure, yeah.
Sure, they'd have a look.

885
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,040
That's worth another episode, I
reckon.

886
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:14,440
Rivenswood.
Yeah.

887
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:16,680
Yep.
So we had an episode on it.

888
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,800
No, no, I think it to be.
Since since.

889
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,160
It's coming up for sale.
We better tell everyone who's

890
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:24,600
going to buy it.
Yeah, yeah.

891
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:26,560
Better let him know.
To.

892
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:29,200
The PSA.
The only thing the thing I did

893
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,680
miss with the synergies that
aren't evident with this whole

894
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,320
Regis remelius Spartan super
merger that is 100% going to

895
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,920
happen is like probably no camp
and building synergies because

896
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,120
all the camps are there already
in place like there's nothing

897
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,040
that can be moved there.
So that's a grounded job if I

898
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:52,480
ever seen one yes the bloody get
the Sicilian God pull Natali

899
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,880
down at Rebecca to slap up a
five star resort.

900
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,920
That is what is going to happen.
It needs to be there, but all

901
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:04,800
the workshops, all the officers,
any piece of steel or wood above

902
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,880
the ground is a grounded job.
And once again, I don't know

903
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,560
anyone else in the state that
actually does it because I don't

904
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,840
need to.
I just know Paul and Grounded

905
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,080
are the people that do it.
That is all I need to know.

906
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,240
That is all anyone listening
needs to know.

907
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,000
You're call grounded to build
something on your mind site.

908
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,000
A champion's wrong word.
Oh God, these.

909
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,440
Are these are lifestyle
villages?

910
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,040
These are nicer than places
people go to retire.

911
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,800
It's it's it's like.
You didn't want to come home,

912
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:33,960
did you?
You stayed at then.

913
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:35,800
No, no, it's like Club Med.
That's.

914
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:38,600
It.
That's just like, yeah, you like

915
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,360
going to Bali on holidays.
And you can tell the money

916
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,920
miners how much better you
worked when you were staying at

917
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,760
a grounded resort back in the
day.

918
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,720
Yeah, and how much more you
worked because you didn't want

919
00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:49,120
to?
Come on, you're on.

920
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,440
Tap.
Four pays for it, so luxury.

921
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,000
Yeah, 4A day.
That's all you get.

922
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,440
Beautiful, right?
Ally GC.

923
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,840
The Mac upsized equity rise.
Yeah.

924
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:05,520
So for those who don't know Max,
the $1.3 billion odd market cap

925
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:11,080
copper producer which owns the
CSA copper mine in in Cobar,

926
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,360
NSW, which they bought from
Glencore last year.

927
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,520
So yesterday they announced they
were doing $140 million

928
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:24,240
placement which was since
upsized today to $150 million.

929
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,480
And so the reasoning for this
raise according to the announcer

930
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,600
said to optimise Max balance
sheet and D lever by retiring

931
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,560
its existing US $145,000,000
May's debt facility at the

932
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,000
earliest practical date, while
also providing additional

933
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,360
flexibility to pursue strategic
inorganic growth opportunities.

934
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,160
So post raise a sort of pro
format, you know net debt

935
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,640
position becomes about USA $134
million.

936
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,720
That that doesn't include the
contingent payments to to

937
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,640
Glencore that can be triggered
on price, right?

938
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:58,400
No, that's right.
That's just the, the senior,

939
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,280
yeah, the senior debt facility
and, and the the mayor's debt

940
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,640
one before it gets paid.
And there's some interesting

941
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:09,160
comments from from the CEO, Mick
McMullen in that announcement.

942
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,000
He said Mac has placed a greater
focus on optimising its balance

943
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,760
sheet and into determining an
appropriate capital structure,

944
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,040
you know, reflective of the
asset quality and improved

945
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,280
credit position, blah, blah,
blah, blah.

946
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,040
Compared to previous years,
feedback from investors has been

947
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,120
strong that moving to a more
typical long term capital

948
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,640
structure is desired.
That sounds to me like he's had

949
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,880
a few angry phone calls and made
him going fix the balance sheet

950
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:38,440
basically.
The other point, it is clear

951
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,640
that the existing MEZ facility
will not form part of this, you

952
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:43,320
know, sort of capital structure
going forward.

953
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,280
As such, Mac has determined it's
in the best interest of

954
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,920
shareholders to retire this
facility as you know, basically

955
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:54,520
early as possible, you know,
reducing that net debt facility

956
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,400
even further from, you know,
when they sort of first listed.

957
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,080
More importantly, by raising
equity today, Mac has full

958
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:07,720
flexibility, you know, to ensure
it can pursue any strategic

959
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:10,000
inorganic growth opportunities
that may present.

960
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,880
And I'll get to my sort of
questions in a moment then going

961
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,640
now.
This is another extract from the

962
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,120
announcement use of proceeds and
sort of the rationale.

963
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:24,360
So this is speaking about this
repayment of this this MEZ debt

964
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,800
facility.
And they say under the terms of

965
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,840
the facility and subject to you
know, obtaining certain consents

966
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:33,320
from the secured lenders, full
prepayment of the facility may

967
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:39,440
be initiated by Mac at the
earliest of you know being the

968
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,880
16th of June 2025.
But then they also have to get

969
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,640
permission from the MEZ debt
provided to if they want to

970
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,400
repay it earlier than that date,
they need permission from them

971
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,240
as well.
So in a nutshell, the earliest

972
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:58,480
they can repay this MES debt
facility is in eight months

973
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,680
time.
And that's provided consents and

974
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,760
approvals are obtained from the
secured lenders.

975
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:08,160
And assuming that's done, they
might be able to repay it even

976
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,640
earlier if the MES debt provider
gives them consent.

977
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,120
So I'm left with a few questions
after reading this.

978
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,400
The main one being why raise?
Now if the primary purpose of

979
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,440
this raise is to delever the
balance sheet, the earliest you

980
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:26,280
can do that subject to getting
all these consents is in eight

981
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,840
months time, the 16th of June
next year.

982
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,840
Why are you raising $150 million
today?

983
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,880
Or alternatively, if that's what
you want to do, which is, you

984
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,520
know, it's, you know, a good
thing to clean up the balance

985
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:38,440
sheet.
Sure.

986
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:43,320
Why weren't, why didn't Max seek
those consents from the secured

987
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,720
lenders or you know, separately
from the MEZ debt provider to

988
00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:52,600
make this repayment, repayment
at June or earlier than June as

989
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,640
part of this capital raise?
So they definitely have not got

990
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,600
the consent yet.
Well, they said that it's

991
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,320
subject they can do this subject
to obtaining these consents.

992
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,840
I mean, if that's the whole
purpose of the raise, I would

993
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,920
have thought they'd be, you
know, top of the list as

994
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,040
something you'd want to do like
perhaps in conjunction with

995
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:15,080
announcing this raise.
And it just doesn't make logical

996
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:19,000
sense to me, $150 million in the
door now to do what, collect

997
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,880
some interest till eight months
later, till you can, you know,

998
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,480
potentially repay this?
It's in these funds, Ali

999
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:26,720
flexibility.
Yeah.

1000
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,280
But it's just like, so, you
know, I get there's probably,

1001
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,560
there was definitely, you know,
you mixed it in his comment.

1002
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,600
There was sort of, you know,
pressure from shareholders to

1003
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,600
deliver perhaps that was quite,
quite strong pressure.

1004
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,480
And Even so, that just leads me
to believe that there might be

1005
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:43,160
some, you know, other reasons
why they've raised the money,

1006
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:47,040
you know, now sort of so, you
know, in advance and, you know,

1007
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,240
mix CEO Comet said, you know, by
raising equity today has the

1008
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:53,040
flexibility if you see these
inorganic growth opportunities

1009
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,000
that may present.
But that's a lot of money to ask

1010
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,800
for, for something that may or
may not even happen.

1011
00:52:57,800 --> 00:52:59,680
You know, I want a Ferrari.
Do you want to give me, you

1012
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:01,960
know, half $1,000,000 an hour
though, Because I might want to

1013
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:06,840
buy it.
Like it's just like, but also I

1014
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,840
thought, OK, is there anything
else that's happening between

1015
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:14,000
now and then, you know, June,
which is at, you know, at

1016
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,720
present the earliest they can
repay it assuming get those

1017
00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:21,040
consents.
First thing I thought of is, is

1018
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:25,040
this month's quarterly maybe not
not so a great one.

1019
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,440
They've tried to sort of preempt
any you know, thoughts on that

1020
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,920
by with an extract in the
announcement saying they place

1021
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,080
to confirm operations.
They continue to, you know,

1022
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,480
perform strongly at CSA on track
to deliver the midpoint of

1023
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,760
guidance corporate production
of, you know, over 10,000 tonnes

1024
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,400
of with say 1 cost of US 190 to
$2.00 a pound.

1025
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,800
So I think they've tried to, you
know, bet that away pretty

1026
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,760
quickly.
Given we're in October now,

1027
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,280
they're obligated to to do so as
well.

1028
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,880
Sort of cleanse, yeah, all the
investors.

1029
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:56,480
Yeah.
No, absolutely.

1030
00:53:56,720 --> 00:54:00,240
So they've given sort of, you
know, an outline at this stage,

1031
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:03,160
but they said they're basically
going to provide more details in

1032
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,240
the quarterly, which which is
due out, you know, later this

1033
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:12,280
month.
The other thing to, to keep an

1034
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:16,160
eye on is perhaps there's a
potential payment of the

1035
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,160
contingent consideration to
Glencore.

1036
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:24,600
So as a refresher, as part of
Mac buying the CSA mine from

1037
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,680
Glencore, part of the
consideration was for that.

1038
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,400
There's this copper contingent
consideration of USA $150

1039
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,280
million cash and that's
structured AS2 contingent

1040
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:41,560
payments of US 75 million each
and they're payable over the

1041
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:47,400
life of mine of CSA.
If the average daily LME you

1042
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:52,480
know closing price for copper is
greater than US 425 a pound or

1043
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:56,240
any 18 month rolling period.
And for the second one over, you

1044
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,200
know, US 450 a pound for any 24
month rolling period.

1045
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,880
And I'm thinking, you know, is
there a chance that the first

1046
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:10,320
trigger that $4.25 one could be
achieved and the first date that

1047
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,920
can be tested from is the 16th
of December, which is the first,

1048
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,920
you know, 18 months post the
acquisition going forward?

1049
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,760
That that 425.
That wouldn't even be close,

1050
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:20,800
would it?
Well, I haven't.

1051
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:22,520
That would be fucking ages away,
wouldn't it?

1052
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,040
Well, I know that.
'D be close.

1053
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,840
It is so. 18 month rolling
period.

1054
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:28,280
Yeah.
Yeah.

1055
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:32,320
I mean, if, if copper for the
next sort of six months or so

1056
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,000
stays in and around where it is
now, then it'd give it a good

1057
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:36,640
run.
So is that is that the weighted?

1058
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,120
It has to be above 425 that
whole time it's.

1059
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:40,960
Just got an average.
Average so.

1060
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,720
The average of your rolling and
moving.

1061
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,240
Average.
So it doesn't have to be above

1062
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:46,920
it.
It's the weighted average of

1063
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:48,640
yeah.
Just the average of all the

1064
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,240
closing prices.
It has to be above 4 by 25.

1065
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,000
OK, right.
Not the not it has to have been

1066
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,280
above 420.
It can dip below as long as the

1067
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:57,600
average.
Yeah, Yeah.

1068
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:58,360
OK.
Yeah.

1069
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,200
So that could.
Well, because we saw that run up

1070
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:05,040
to 4 buck, 5 bucks, 20
something, and then it trailed

1071
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:06,920
off again.
Now it's sort of close to four,

1072
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,680
4450.
Yeah.

1073
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:12,200
So I had AI had a look at S&P
just to you know, say from, you

1074
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,160
know, June of last year to
today, which isn't quite 18

1075
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,840
months and the average is
actually about US 4 bucks a

1076
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,920
pound.
So it's not actually too far

1077
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,800
offer that that first trigger
price.

1078
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,920
So it's probably 1 to keep an
eye on like if copper continues,

1079
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,080
like you say, JD, if a copper
continues as it is or you know,

1080
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:36,520
rips further, you know, we, we
might see maybe perhaps not

1081
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,760
later this year, but maybe early
next year that that, you know,

1082
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,280
trigger payment, the first
trigger payment gets achieved.

1083
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,320
And that's US 75.
So that's that chews up a good

1084
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,640
chunk.
Of it, that's a lot of money.

1085
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:52,240
And my final, my final thought
was, you know, are these sort of

1086
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:55,160
inorganic M&A aspirations, which
I mean, look that's peppered

1087
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,360
through all their, you know,
sort of communications and

1088
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:58,760
presentations and things like
that.

1089
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,960
Those aspirations perhaps more
advanced than we think, you

1090
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,440
know, by raising money now to,
you know, deal ever and clean up

1091
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,440
the balance sheet, which you
know, I think is, you know, a

1092
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,280
good thing.
But the fact that they're doing

1093
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:15,360
it so well in advance when they
can possibly repay it, is this

1094
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:19,600
perhaps Mac trying to signal and
provide confidence to

1095
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,160
prospective, you know, targets
that they might be, you know,

1096
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,160
thinking about and looking at
that, you know, a balance sheet

1097
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:29,400
is strong where acquisition
ready and it's more of a a

1098
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,920
positioning pace in in some
respects, yeah.

1099
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:35,280
Yeah, I don't.
Know what they could get a

1100
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,560
thought They could get a bit.
I was just looking like who's in

1101
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:41,840
the district that they'd go for,
like peel, peel.

1102
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:45,840
So there's 70 mil market cap.
So yeah, you wouldn't need too

1103
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:47,000
much.
Too much for that.

1104
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,880
Yeah, 120 or something you're.
Probably gonna have to pay a

1105
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:54,240
hefty premium to get that done.
Though they're 100% premium, 250

1106
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,800
mil, Yeah, 140 mil to take them
out.

1107
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,920
Yeah, Yeah, I'm not.
Yeah, that's and that's a an

1108
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,040
excellent theory when we've
talked about it before, but it

1109
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,800
hasn't happened.
But I'm not as negative about

1110
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,480
the raise right now like as even
though the messaging is

1111
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,360
confusing all that sort of stuff
like the thing that's always

1112
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,040
worried me about Mac is there's
too much leverage and I'm

1113
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:19,040
excited if it D levers and gets
more kind of, you know, like

1114
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,280
durable throughout the potential
volatility that you can have in

1115
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:28,400
commodity markets and faster
they can remove that risk, the

1116
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:33,480
happier I'll I'll be as well.
Yeah, and I get that they're

1117
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:36,160
raising it well in advance of
when they can pay that, that

1118
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,640
like spot meds facility, but
that's a a tremendously high

1119
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:41,160
interest rate that they pay on
that facility.

1120
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,560
It's like, fuck, it's
extortionate.

1121
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:45,840
You know, it's I think it's like
nearly 20% or something like

1122
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:47,640
that on that men's facility.
Was it 18?

1123
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:51,120
I remember just looking at the
interest repayments when you

1124
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,960
look at the cash flow waterfall
and it's I pay a lot of money in

1125
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:57,840
interest repayments.
So yeah, like I'm all for them

1126
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,400
sort of paying that down.
I think realistically the only

1127
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,840
way that we're going to be able
to get there was going to be

1128
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,640
with more equity because they,
they just, they had, it was a

1129
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,960
SPAC that paid, you know, paid,
paid a lot of money for an

1130
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,240
asset.
And there any way that could get

1131
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,480
the funding away was to put as
much debt as possible in there

1132
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:20,600
and then gradually deliver with
pipe, with IPO, with, you know,

1133
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,720
subsequent equity raises.
I thought they might time it

1134
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:23,880
with an acquisition of something
else.

1135
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,000
But if if you're patient and
you're waiting for the right

1136
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,520
deal to do, or if you're just
getting more capable to embark

1137
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,560
on the deal you want to do, I
don't hate it.

1138
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:35,240
Yeah, I don't.
I don't hate it.

1139
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:37,600
We did.
We did a whole episode on just

1140
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,560
how stacked they were with debt
about a year ago before they

1141
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:43,080
were going to be listed here on
the ASX.

1142
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,280
So definitely a good thing.
Yeah, a lot of sort of

1143
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,080
complexity.
And also just on the inorganic

1144
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:52,720
growth front, there was a a
street rather a data room

1145
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:56,040
article, Bridget Carter saying
that they passed up on a $1

1146
00:59:56,040 --> 01:00:00,160
billion takeover of Nevis Kovo
in Portugal.

1147
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,960
So I think for the M and a
perspective, I'd be more

1148
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:07,360
inclined to look at a bigger
deal rather than a a bit Part 1.

1149
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:09,360
I think that's how they would
kind of be thinking about it.

1150
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,120
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, Mount Isa's the one that

1151
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:13,680
eventually.
Exactly.

1152
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,520
Sticks out, yeah.
You know, you've got, yeah, a

1153
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,240
party that has history of doing
a deal with Glencore and, you

1154
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,360
know, Glencore kind of probably
won out for the right price at

1155
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,120
at Mount Isa, Yeah.
I mean, in summary, I think that

1156
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,280
that the actual purpose to
delivering the balance sheet and

1157
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,760
getting it closer to net cash
is, is a positive thing.

1158
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:38,760
And I'm, I am for that.
My questions more so centre

1159
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:45,120
around the the execution.
So, and why perhaps you'd, I

1160
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,800
mean, if you want to, you know,
stop those very expensive

1161
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,480
interest payments as soon as you
can, I'd be, you know, racing to

1162
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,240
get those, get those sort of
consents and waivers from the,

1163
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,960
the, the senior lenders and the,
and the mayor's debt lenders to

1164
01:00:58,000 --> 01:00:59,480
get that done as soon as
possible.

1165
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:01,280
So but.
Once you got the consent it

1166
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,480
doesn't matter by the sounds you
still they still got to wait

1167
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:08,440
till mid next year.
Unless the so that's for the the

1168
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,360
the senior lenders they've
they've you know, essentially

1169
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,640
got to give approval that you
can you can do that in June, but

1170
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:19,160
then there's another consent you
can get from the Mesdet lender

1171
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,840
to say can I pay you before
June?

1172
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:23,480
OK, you're right.
I gotcha, Gotcha.

1173
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:24,640
Yeah.
So.

1174
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,120
There there, there is an ability
to pay that Mes.

1175
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,640
There's before June, yeah.
And I'm sort of saying like,

1176
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,200
well, why wouldn't you sort of
done that all at the same time

1177
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:34,680
as this rise?
But who knows, they might be

1178
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:36,440
coming out, yeah.
You can't get the consent

1179
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:38,880
without the cash.
Cash, yeah, there might be more

1180
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:43,080
complexities that we aren't
aware of, but there's a reason

1181
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,520
of how they've gone about it the
way they've done, but no keen to

1182
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,760
see what happens there.
But yeah, overall I think yeah,

1183
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:51,320
positive getting that, you know,
balance sheet closer to net

1184
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:56,120
cash.
Very good JC, I am sensational.

1185
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:58,040
But you want to have we got one
to finish off?

1186
01:01:58,240 --> 01:01:59,800
No.
All right, we'll call it a day

1187
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:01,200
there.
Call it a day that.

1188
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:06,360
Was a Ripper segment too.
You'll never know what it was.

1189
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:08,400
Maybe we'll talk about it
another time.

1190
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,040
Maybe JD, it wasn't uranium
because I would have definitely

1191
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:16,600
talked about it.
And I will never delete MMS off

1192
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,440
the show notes ever.
Probably even when they're not

1193
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,120
sponsoring us.
I'll load them on that.

1194
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,720
Who else wouldn't you delete?
I'm not deleting for this month.

1195
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:30,440
Grounded Cross Boundary Energy,
Sambic Ground Support, CRE

1196
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,800
Insurance, Greenland's
equipment, K Drill, MMTS,

1197
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,040
Australian Earthworks and
Haulage and our great friends at

1198
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:41,480
Spark Pederu, Moneymont Pederu.
Information contained in this

1199
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,240
episode of Money of Mine is of
general nature only and does not

1200
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:46,840
take into account the
objectives, financial situation

1201
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:48,960
or needs of any particular
person.

1202
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,240
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

1203
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,320
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

1204
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:59,000
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.