We Answer an Open Q&A

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Buddy, mine is the Q&A episode
that was asked for a couple of

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weeks ago.
It's here, it's here, and who

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better to bloody be the partner
for it than salt Bush

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contracting mine?
Doesn't that just make sense?

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The bloody the turnkey bulk
college site support.

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They handle everything once you
mind the orgy say.

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Yeah, once that all all's out,
they'll look after everything

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for you, right?
That anything you want they will

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Polish the ore for you.
And just remember when a job is

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too hard on your mind site, you
get fucking saltbush to do it.

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That is the saying you should
have in your head.

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Whether it's building a road
bloody mind rehab equipment

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hire.
Why buy it when you can get some

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off saltbush?
Go saltbush.

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Well done salt, and do you
remember the questions for this

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bloody while ago?
Yeah, No, there was a bit, we

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had a a little bit on.
I remember we talked about

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copper, we talked a little bit
about Indonesian mining.

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I think we we talked about ore
body geometry.

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Oh, that's true.
I learned a lot about that.

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That was cool.
Well.

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The the intricacies of what's a
good and bad geometry for for.

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Underground plunge and all
plunge.

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All these fancy words.
There was actually some finance

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lingo as well for the non non
financy people too.

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I'm devastated that there was a
lot of macro stuff and it's two

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weeks too early because like I
am now a macro guru.

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After all, the Trump.
Stuff and I feel like I'm not

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going to be reflected accurately
in this video to what my prowess

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is at the moment, but I'll I'm
happy to wear that so.

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I did a good learning curve in
the last two weeks, hasn't it?

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Right now let's get into the Q&A
or we could just talk about K

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Drill, that's I got you on the
chapters there didn't.

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I not just an.
RC and diamond drilling company

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JC Drilling the holes is the
easy part in exploration.

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It's creating the K drill
culture that the bloody drillers

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want to work for, that the
offsiders want to sweat their

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guts out for.
And who else to do it for than

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Ryan O'Sullivan?
He is the man that people want

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to work for.
And especially in this WA hate

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we've been experiencing this
summer, you know, so far, I

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mean, that's a lot of sweat.
Mate, you wouldn't do it for

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anyone, but like the only way to
possibly become as good of a

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driller, a manager and a bloke
as Ryan O'Sullivan is to work

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for Ron O'Sullivan.
You might get close if you're

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exposed to him.
Just go help Kaydrill keep the

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mining industry alive faster and
diamond experts.

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Go Kaydrill.
And just people, experts,

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righto, we'll get into it now.
Righto Muddy 1 is.

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We asked you asked and we're
about to answer.

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That's that was the process.
We asked for Q&A.

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Users have given us Q and AJ CS
gonna run AQ and.

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A Let's.
See how good's that?

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No thanks to all the money
miners that submitted a whole

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bunch of different questions to
us during the way.

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Thank you for that.
We've taken the time, I've taken

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the time to whittled them down
to a few that we're gonna ask

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the ask the time, all sorts of
topics and companies,

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commodities, the shit that's
happening in general.

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Please tell me there was a
question about your stock

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holdings.
You know what?

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There wasn't, and I'm so glad
that gets talked about enough.

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Ali's got all the power, though.
We wouldn't even know.

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Oh yeah, we've gotta go through,
back through and check those.

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You've intentionally withheld
these questions from us, so

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we're.
Yes and so yeah, you guys

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haven't seen the questions so
it'll be your your first crack

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at em so.
This exposes me, Jason.

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Now you'll be all right.
You'll be all right.

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I can still edit the video true.
Thank fuck for that.

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So let's let's kick things off.
So we had James and Aisha from

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Twitter who asked about and
actually a few others who asked

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about what you guys think about
the outlook for copper in the

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sort of near term.
And you know, James also asked

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about, you know, there's, you
know, not too many pureplay

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copper plays left on the on the
A6.

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What were you guys thoughts just
on that and then the copper more

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generally for this year?
She's pretty consensus long

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right like that.
That's the, the, the feature of

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it that kind of scares me in a
way that everyone wants it,

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especially, you know, you have
the, the mining sort of fundies

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and then you have the, the
generalist as well.

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And when every man and the dog
loves something, you're not

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going to get it cheap.
And you see it in all the

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transactions.
There's been some hot M&A deals,

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big mines, you know, many
billions of dollars.

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And when you have that many
people looking at the, that many

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miners looking at the
transactions, because every big

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miner wants copper, you're not
getting them cheap.

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So you're really paying for that
narrative as opposed to buying

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something that's deep into the
cost curve where you might be

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getting it on a a discount
because everyone hates it and

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everyone's running away.
That's the sort of first thought

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that comes to my mind.
Well, on the yeah, on the big

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scale, it's like, you know, big
Trump, he's gonna have a massive

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effect on, you know, China
growth of China bloody and

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'cause you know, China is the
determinant on what copper

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demands gonna be.
And if there's any slowing

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there, that's obviously you can
pick the best stock you want,

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but if the underlying price
doesn't go up, good for bloody

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bugger all.
So but then on the yeah, pure

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like getting pureplay of scale
as well.

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Like, you know, AIC for
instance, like yeah, it's

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pureplay copper, but it's not
producing shit loads of copper.

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You know, like to develop with
Woodlawn and that lock.

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It's not they're not going to be
like big, like they're not going

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to be at 50,000 tons of copper.
Yeah, whereas what Mac they're.

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45,045 get over 50.
Yeah.

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So it's like trying to find
something of scale in here

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without going to like a frigging
gown to the vicuna, like to a

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porphyry or something.
Yeah, that requires bloody shot

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loads of CapEx.
The lack the lack of copper ASX

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names is reflective of the lack
of quality in ASX in Australian

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copper projects.
Yeah, like you think I remember

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scale at least.
Well, de Grocer.

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Was what were they, 6065
thousand tons of copper?

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Because it was, you know what,
one half million, 1.6 million

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tonne at near 5% copper.
But to find that now like look

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at like what half a billion
dollar company, Firefly, that's

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probably going to be 1 1/2%
copper.

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So that'll have to be like to
get that to 4050 thousand tonne

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of copper equivalent likes no,
over 3,000,000 tonnes of ore

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from a kilometer down.
So it's to find that whereas you

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know, Mac, Mac is coming from
what, 1.8 kilometers down.

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But that's got the grade.
It's got 5, 5%, yeah.

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So I was a distressed asset for
a reason, yeah.

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So.
Near term outlook for copper

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probably about the same as where
it is right now.

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And I think you're better off
like like you said, it's the,

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it's the corporates who are, who
are maybe maybe getting a, you

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know, looking, looking on the
outlook and saying there's a

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shortage.
And so they're paying high

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multiples for the, you know, the
acquisition targets to, you

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know, a bit of a tip to the
person who asked the question,

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those acquisition targets and
not on the ASX.

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Listen to that episode with Tom
Orwreck and he'll he'll talk

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about yeah, like maybe some of
the, some of the other kind of

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targets that could could get
covered up, but they're by far

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and above, yeah, skewed towards
the, the, the North American

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listings.
And a bit of this is another

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question, but sort of related
topic.

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This is from Risk It for the
Biscuit on Twitter.

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I'm not sure if it's a he or a
she.

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Oh no Anthony, sorry Anthony.
So I've just seen the name

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there.
Will 2025 be the year that the

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small medium Mount Isa copper
projects start to gain

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mainstream attention and
traction?

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One example is Glencore
committing to a long term

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partnership with Carnaby.
Partnership's a funny word,

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isn't it?
You'll love you'll love to see

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the juniors use the word
partnership with the commodity

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trading houses.
But it's always a bit more devil

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in the detail there, Al.
Bancora rather on the way out

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than on the way in to Mount Isa,
that's how to sort of think

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about their approach to that
area.

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So I think you're hoping for a
few things to go your way at the

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end of the day, they're they're
higher cost assets and if the

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copper price goes up, I've got a
lot of talk to the price, but

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they are high cost and you're
running the risk when you when

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you own them.
Yeah, what?

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What would Glencore sell the
smelter for and all that there?

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Mount Ozer exposure?
What's?

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The liability.
Don't know it's.

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I couldn't tell you if the I
wouldn't know.

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Tough one.
So yeah, you pretty much need

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some big dog to come in and
consolidate the whole region

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because it appears, as you said,
Glencore's on the way out, so

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they don't want to do it.
Like who will do it?

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Yeah, Glencore conscious of
their social licence as well.

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They've still got enormous, you
know, economic activity in

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relation to the coal mining in
that state.

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They don't want to, yeah.
They want to preserve their

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social licence in in Queensland
too, So no.

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That's a good point.
Bit of a change of tech.

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So I'll direct this to our
finance gurus, Trev and JD.

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So hankle hankle Gogo up and
rising staff and coming here.

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So Hankle Gogo from from Twitter
says, can you guys go over the

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terminology related to the ways
of valuing companies like a back

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to basics for some of the new
money miners now, I mean the

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segment like this, you know, you
could go on for for hours, but

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why don't we do?
Why don't we do a couple like

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MPV?
What what the Hell's MPV for for

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a very any intro to our finance?
I could zoom out a bit and I, I

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would like preface it with
saying the way you value, you

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know, mining companies changes
over time.

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You go from this like, you know,
in situ resource in the ground

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and then, well, you know,
hopefully blue sky discovery

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00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,440
people get ahead of themselves.
And then as you get nearer and

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nearer to cash flow, people use
the DCF.

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And whenever we're talking about
these multiples, we often like

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say stuff like P NAV, well,
we're just sort of shortening

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things.
It's price divided by the NAV

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per share and that's what we
mean by P NAV.

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And then NPVNPV is a simple one.
You're working out what is the,

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the net present value of the,
the future cash flows from this

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upper from, from this mining
project.

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What, what the NPV is kind of
like a, a thing everyone looks

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at in the, in the feasibility
study or the PFS or even the

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scoping study or PEA.
And what's your CapEx out late

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00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,520
at the beginning?
And then what are your your kind

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00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,080
of free cash flows overtime
taking into account the?

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00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,320
Time value of money, exactly,
Yeah.

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So that's why we always pick on
the discount rate, which is the

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percentage you use to discount
those cash flows.

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We talk pretty commonly, some of
the miners who you know will

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reference EV to EBITDA multiple,
which is taking into account the

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the value of the company on the
Stock Exchange, incorporating

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their net debt and then
comparing that with their

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EBITDA, which is a sort of crude
cash flow metric.

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That's, you know, we sometimes
use it often more often for

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copper miners and so on.
It's more of an industrialist

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kind of metric.
I think it's more preferred in

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the mining space to use net
asset value and that's related

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to these projects having a
definitive mine life.

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00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,560
Yeah.
Plus the the corporate level,

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there's often these adjustments
for for your NAV as well-being

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00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,400
the cash and debt cap structure
in the money options which are

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reflected in NAV per share.
Yeah, IRI is another one.

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00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:42,680
That's another one bankers will
Chuck around.

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And that's just similarly when a
study is being put forward,

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trying to just put your returns
into a percentage term so you

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00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,240
can understand what the returns
might be, again taking into

223
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,000
account the outflows, the
inflows of capital over time.

224
00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,680
I guess the interesting thing,
which I think we touched on in a

225
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:06,840
previous episode is with, with,
with mining assets, you know,

226
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:12,760
especially really long life
ones, because things like MPV

227
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,680
and IRS take into account the
time value of money.

228
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,800
You know, you might have a, a
copper producer, a gold producer

229
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,720
that you know, produces for 50
years or something.

230
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,040
But the MPV, because you're
taking into account the time

231
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,160
value of money, penalises or
doesn't penalise, but it makes

232
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,600
those cash flows that are 4050
years out so small when

233
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,720
actually, jeez, if you can
produce for 40-50 years, that's

234
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,800
like a, a great thing.
But the the the, you know, the

235
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,560
Excel spreadsheet sort of
doesn't give too much

236
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,760
recognition for that.
Big time the thing that Excel

237
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,600
spreadsheet doesn't give you
credit for is commodity markets

238
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,960
are volatile and relatively
frequently there are these like

239
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,280
short term shortages and price
flexes up massively.

240
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,960
So, you know, miners might just,
you know, wash their face for,

241
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,320
for seven years and then have
one year where they make 7 years

242
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,640
worth of profit because the, the
price of their commodity shot up

243
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,360
massively.
That's, that's like, you know,

244
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,920
you get in the realm of, yeah,
where the spreadsheet kind of

245
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,120
fails.
It's just our, our, our

246
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,960
assumptions on pricing and how
volatile and, you know, de

247
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,880
minimis earnings can be for some
periods and then highly

248
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,760
lucrative for a very short
period of time.

249
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,760
But people talk about the NPV
not capturing the option value

250
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,840
of a mining asset or or or or
longevity that comes from

251
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,720
enduring mining cycles.
Coal assets over the 2022 period

252
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,360
is the most recent example of
that way.

253
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,360
That's a good example.
Prices go through the roof and

254
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,240
these companies just buy back
their shares, issue dividends

255
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,000
and all sorts and it pays for a
lot of the bad years.

256
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:39,920
Yeah.
Now, I think there's some good

257
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,280
things to sort of grains of salt
to take in when you're looking

258
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,160
at those sort of multiples and
figures and things like that.

259
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,880
Moving on.
Actually, you sort of touched on

260
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:54,920
it before, Maddie.
Lots of lots of questions about

261
00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,600
Trumpy coming in and what that
means for commodities, commodity

262
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,720
prices, things like that.
I'll flash up a few of the

263
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,080
questions that came through.
Neil asked the world of

264
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,760
commodities in the context of
the new Trump presidency.

265
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,600
How does the team see this
playing out in 2025?

266
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,200
A couple of other ones were
predictions for renewable

267
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,720
commodities with the
cancellation of the EV mandate

268
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,800
in the USA.
Also, any insights regarding the

269
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:26,480
drill baby, drill rhetoric in
other jurisdictions you say like

270
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,280
Australia and Canada, how that
may affect prices.

271
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,000
I don't know if you guys had
some high level views on what

272
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,720
that might look like this year.
Well, they're definitely, if

273
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,560
you're an Aussie, Aussie miner
in Aussie dollars, you're

274
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,080
definitely getting the good
tailwind of an exchange right at

275
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,280
the, at the moment, like, you
know, going from what, 6 within

276
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,800
1/4?
It's going from 69 to 62 cents.

277
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,000
So if Trump's good for the US
dollar, it's going to keep

278
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,320
strengthening that and the our
realised price.

279
00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,160
But then it's, you know, they
talk about the if the there's

280
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,520
still a lot of gold buying
around the world.

281
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,800
The I think the ATF flies have
always seemed to from what I've

282
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,720
been told of the US dollar, US
gold price movement of always

283
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,920
outweighed with the realised
price that Australian miners get

284
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,440
for it just with the the VNX
funds and everything.

285
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,040
So but they'll, you know, be in
the position where they got look

286
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,160
at Regis.
They got what nearly they're

287
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,440
going to rapidly have nearly
bloody the 3rd to half of their

288
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,320
friggin EV in cash so in a
couple of years.

289
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,440
So pretty phenomenal.
I'll be just like metals accent.

290
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,560
If you look at other sort of
policies, ones that we spoke

291
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,840
about heaps over the past year
and a bit like the Inflation

292
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:47,560
Reduction Act, IRA talk that
they might trim that down, can

293
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,600
it, who knows.
I don't think a lot of that

294
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,480
value or the benefits was really
actually coming through despite

295
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,280
all the talk about it to a lot
of the miners.

296
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:02,080
Regardless of that anyway, the
US for EVs is like 10 odd

297
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,480
percent of the global market.
They're not, you know, more than

298
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,360
50% of global sales are actually
done in China for electric

299
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,880
vehicles.
So they're not a huge player in

300
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,680
that market anyway.
And who knows if they even, you

301
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,040
know, cancel.
It remains to be seen.

302
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,920
I think there will be shorter
term volatile action as as Trump

303
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,760
and I guess he's kind of
competitors in a way, Xi Jinping

304
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,680
and stuff and how they kind of
act on other sides.

305
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,800
We saw it with aluminium in
December.

306
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,720
We saw it with more niche metals
as well.

307
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,520
As they sort of posture about
what's going to happen, they

308
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,200
start flexing their muscles on
the parts of the supply chains

309
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,560
that they do have strength,
Aluminium being a stronger point

310
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,840
in China, the US being more
reliant.

311
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,080
So I think you'll see like sort
of short term movements like

312
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,600
that and then you'll see 50
juniors talk about how they've

313
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,360
got this niche metal in their
backyard and all these kind of

314
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,920
things.
And yeah, well, remains to be

315
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,320
kind of seen, but I think
there's a lot of a lot of talk

316
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,720
and you got to kind of wait to
see what actually gets put into

317
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,920
legislation.
It's the interesting one which

318
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,280
has come out then the last week
or so.

319
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:12,040
Is this project Stargate that
sort of 500 billion worth of

320
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,440
investment into AI
infrastructure?

321
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,560
I mean, we're sort of you guys
have touched on that in

322
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:22,640
interviews with a whole host of
guests late last year around

323
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,960
that driving, you know, you
know, critical, you know,

324
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,840
minerals demand as opposed to
the, you know, traditional EV

325
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,160
theme we've seen for a while.
I mean that it's a lot of money.

326
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,640
Well, it's a lot of potentially
a lot of copper, a lot of.

327
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,680
Uranium.
Uranium for this, because you

328
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,760
know, the, I was watching, I
think it was CNBC the other

329
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,920
night and it was just the first
question that always comes up

330
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,480
about that, about that Stargate
was like, right, how are we

331
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,320
powering them?
So and gas and gas and nuclear

332
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,000
are the essentially the only
ways for things of that scale.

333
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,760
It's a solder, Yeah.
Shit loaders market.

334
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,280
Shit loads are sold I.
Reckon every single miner can

335
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,200
wrap that around their narrative
and just plug in and play you.

336
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:13,160
You need every sort of
electrification as well as

337
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:17,240
energy type to to get those
sorts of things off the ground.

338
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,440
And that's a bigger scale than
we've ever spoken about.

339
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,880
It's a biggest scale than most
people have ever spoken about in

340
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,120
a quicker time frame, so be
suspect of how much of the

341
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:30,080
money's actually going to go
into the ground over what sort

342
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,520
of period.
But regardless, it's a it's a

343
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,400
huge kick up.
I think the it's a it looks

344
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,080
pretty convincing It's going to
happen.

345
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,960
Remember the what what, two
years ago, the everyone's lot

346
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,400
now the metaverse is the next
thing that just died in the ass.

347
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,360
But I guess this data centre and
AI thing looks pretty convincing

348
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:54,880
that it's it's heading down that
path and it's pretty good.

349
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,000
Like how the variances in the
the whole EV not bubble bit of a

350
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,680
lot, a bit of a nickel bubble
really like the whole nickel

351
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,160
thematic that didn't come to
fruition.

352
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,720
But this looks pretty set for
yeah, copper energy, shit load

353
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,240
of solder for the tin.
So.

354
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,160
So yeah.
It's one point on the

355
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,120
geopolitics stuff.
It's like, it's like, it's so

356
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:20,440
hard to sometimes like, you
know, think of all the 2nd order

357
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,240
impacts, all that sort of stuff.
But the general comment on the

358
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,040
markets is like there's a lot of
froth in parts of the markets a

359
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,240
a a lot, right, like you know.
Speaking of froth, actually we

360
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,320
did get a question from Nick on
Facebook.

361
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,160
Can we get a call on fartcoin
for 2025?

362
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:44,800
Also Trump and Melania coins.
Oh, that's just America's

363
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,640
bizarre.
Yeah, but no, yeah, I think

364
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,240
you're right, Trev.
I mean, if I mean that that

365
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,200
that's, you know, even in the
main coin space as a, as a bit

366
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,240
of a funny example, but yeah,
no, just even more broadly as

367
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,080
well.
It's just crazy, isn't it?

368
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,120
I.
Reckon on on that particular

369
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:05,000
call there's probably more
chance of fart coin outperforms

370
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,440
Trump and Milani just
historically celebrity coins

371
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,640
have not done very well nothing
against Trump or Melania but

372
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,760
yeah the long the long yeah but
we'll see that the.

373
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,240
But I do think there's a
reflection to have on just the

374
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,320
state of the market because when
things are really frothy, that's

375
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,280
usually a predictor of, you
know, things being pretty like a

376
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,720
lot of turmoil.
A lot of people are just like

377
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,440
maximally deployed.
But the reality is the best

378
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:36,600
opportunities come in moments of
like a liquidity panic or crash.

379
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,440
Whenever a market crashes and
all of a sudden some people have

380
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,200
too much margin or like funds
blow up or whatever, they've got

381
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,840
to sell everything and they're
for sellers.

382
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,800
And those are wonderful buying
opportunities.

383
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,400
So I just think it's one of
those years where like it's just

384
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,040
going to pay dividends to have
like some dry powder to deploy

385
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,360
if those events or an event like
that pops up.

386
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,880
That's my that's my fuel.
I think I've got to, I want to

387
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,760
get my head around these other
timeline for these data centres

388
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,200
and the projects, how long it's
going to take.

389
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,480
Because if if they're so energy
dependent, it's not going to be

390
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,800
just uranium, it'll be powering
them like fucking could be like

391
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,520
could be huge for thermal coal,
could like, could be lithium for

392
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,720
like extra storage, like could
be a bit of everything needed to

393
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,680
power it.
Look how cheap natural gas is in

394
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,480
the states.
It's insane.

395
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,880
It's it's 3 or 4 like $4.00 when
I last looked Henry Hub that

396
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,720
that is crazy.
Like everyone would be trying to

397
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,160
use that first and then
complement it with things like

398
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,880
nuclear and other sources so
they can meet the targets that

399
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:40,880
they've put forward in these
things.

400
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,720
But they take a lot of time
naturally S is much sort of

401
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,880
quicker and reliable means of
getting your power if you want

402
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,840
it soon.
So I'm completely with you

403
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,160
though, very keen to see the the
timeline of these builds.

404
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,760
Yeah.
It could be could be diesel

405
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,520
Jenny's powering at the start,
which is like a fucking shit

406
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,440
load oil, which is going to be
the whole drill baby drill

407
00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:59,240
thing.
What is it?

408
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,480
Land man says got to be between
what is it 73 and 88 bucks a

409
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,240
barrel for optimum conditions
for the global economy.

410
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:12,760
Yeah, and, and look at Scott
Bezant, the incoming peak for

411
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,400
Treasury Secretary.
Super interesting guys.

412
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,400
Worked with Druckenmill and and
Soros in his time in in the

413
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,360
hedge fund world, ran his own
hedge fund for a long time.

414
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:24,520
And one of the the pillars of
his sort of policy he's putting

415
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,520
forward is 3,000,000 more
barrels of oil coming out per

416
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,040
day in the States.
And that would be enormous.

417
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,400
That would bring down costs.
And obviously he's saying that

418
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,520
to make industry hum even more
in the states, see if they can

419
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,560
sort of get there.
But that is one of the three

420
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,480
explicit targets he's put
forward, as well as a, you know,

421
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,480
the other targets on GDP and
these sorts of things.

422
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,160
This is this Treasury Secretary,
by the way.

423
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,840
He's a fellow that in the past
who stated that he thinks the,

424
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,720
you know, the US dollar like US
will default in this debt like

425
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,640
the reign as the supreme
currency will end like.

426
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,640
Yeah, Golden bugs.
Want to want to get a hard on?

427
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,040
Go listen to his.
He did an awesome chat on the

428
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,920
Capital Allocators podcast.
Yeah, it's called Macromave, and

429
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,880
it was fascinating.
The guy's got decades and

430
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,440
decades of history in the game.
And yeah.

431
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,000
He's fun.
There's plenty of gold in it,

432
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,000
Yeah.
I think what was Musk?

433
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,720
Musk obviously puts it very
simple, but what's he saying?

434
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,280
Very soon the interest will be
the same cost as the whole

435
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,560
defense budget or something like
that.

436
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,160
Just Yeah, I.
Think it might have just edged

437
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,760
it out last year.
Yeah.

438
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,000
Yeah.
And that is a big military

439
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,440
spend, yeah.
Oh, Speaking of Gold Phone, you

440
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,920
guys talking about that?
We've got Nathan from Twitter

441
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,080
who asked Gold Junior developers
which ones can realistically, in

442
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,080
your opinions, fund and move
into production themselves,

443
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:50,960
Which ones will be taken out and
which ones are pretenders?

444
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,440
I mean, that's worthy if it's
all home, you know, for the

445
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,600
episode.
But you know, we could perhaps

446
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,880
look at a few company examples,
but perhaps maybe the

447
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,680
characteristics that you tend to
say in the ones that can move

448
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,400
into production themselves or
you know, you know, attractive

449
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,680
for a take out and, and, and
things like that.

450
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,640
You guys have any thoughts?
Ali, this is this is one for

451
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,600
you.
I reckon this is your bread and

452
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,200
butter.
Or or I think.

453
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:20,680
I'll have something to say,
yeah.

454
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,640
Nice.
I reckon the well and look the

455
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,760
best performing producer last
year I think based on our chart

456
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,760
the other week was catalyst into
just terms of share price

457
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,720
performance and you know they're
growing printing cash.

458
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,480
I think they'd be looking for a
for a deal or would they maybe

459
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,440
look at broad stuff for the same
Stein because that's going to

460
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,240
need a lot of capital to get
that because that's potentially

461
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,560
not a bad hub coming up for some
big pits.

462
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,360
But it's going to need a plant,
likely need a plant.

463
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:59,120
Makes sense to put a plant at
the sandstone project.

464
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:03,520
So yeah, I think catalysts might
be looking around to like, you

465
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,320
know, they're makers down the
road from them, but just don't

466
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,680
know if it's got the long term
scale.

467
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,000
We touched on in our in our
first week back the Bullet

468
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:22,440
bullying deal that will be
trading again in April, a few

469
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,360
years away from production.
It'd be a developer with an

470
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,040
asset just need to go through
the the studies and everything.

471
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,520
But more generally, those kinds
of deals are the assets that to

472
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:32,960
be honest.
Are off your radar.

473
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:35,360
Completely off my radar.
I had no idea about it

474
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,280
happening.
They're really interesting ones

475
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,160
and I'm sure there's more than a
few that people are working on

476
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,400
in the background.
But yeah, very keen to see how

477
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,600
that that trades.
I'm sure it'd be interesting

478
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,000
when it when it comes back
online I think too.

479
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,920
Things I've learnt, particularly
in the from last year as well,

480
00:25:53,960 --> 00:26:01,800
is as far as the, the speed and
the sort of most streamlined

481
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,120
path forward you can get from,
you know, being a developer to a

482
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,840
producer, I think is having
optionality and having your

483
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:16,200
permitting under control.
Just those having those two

484
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:23,200
things I think so important, you
know, just, you know, it's times

485
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,160
to get, you know, MLS and then
native title agreements and

486
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,200
environmental approval,
especially if you have to build

487
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,800
a, you know, a processing plant
and things like that.

488
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,280
They take a lot of time.
An optionality.

489
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,080
I mean, yeah, I could do it
myself.

490
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,520
Yeah.
I could get taken out by, you

491
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,560
know, a big neighbor down the
road.

492
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,120
Yeah, I could do this.
The more optionality you've got,

493
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:50,000
you've sort of got I think a bit
more firmer ground to put your

494
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,680
two feet on and go actually no,
this is how I'm going to

495
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,000
maximize the value out of, you
know, this asset, this company

496
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,280
sort of thing a bit more.
Feel like you're leading into an

497
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,960
MMS plug or something?
One more.

498
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,120
That kind of comes from, I'm not
a classical developer, but Wolf,

499
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,040
they've got, they're building
Kiaka that's going to be

500
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,320
producing in half a year's time
and they're no longer trading at

501
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,200
the level they were when they
just had Zambrado.

502
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,000
But I mean in share price, they
did a capital raise and

503
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,520
everything added sort of 60-70
cents from the level they kind

504
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,760
of were.
But there's a step change again

505
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,880
as they start producing over
400,000 ounces, probably a

506
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,800
year's time once things have
ramped up and everything.

507
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,480
So that's that's one I'm sort of
watching, obviously with a

508
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,080
massive caveat of risk in the
area that's in some countries

509
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,920
heightened in recent times, but
that's the opportunity that

510
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,080
throws up for other people.
You think like this, this scale,

511
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,560
the scale premium or like the
fact that they've got 2

512
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:49,920
operations?
I mean, even if they're getting

513
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,240
marked on the same sort of cash
flows or whatever that they were

514
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,760
going from one asset to to
doubling that way more Oz coming

515
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,520
at the ground, the cash flow
jumps up substantially.

516
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,360
Yeah, we'll kind of see in time.
But I think people have

517
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,320
definitely been risk off in West
Africa over the past year.

518
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,760
And I think that's an
opportunity for other people

519
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,640
that can play with that sort of
risk.

520
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,160
It's Ding Ding on that one for
me.

521
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,160
I.
Reckon now we're gonna yeah

522
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:20,200
enter an era of of cash
takeovers in the in the gold

523
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,360
space.
Cash takeovers, yeah, I mean, if

524
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,440
you just like look at the lay of
the landscape, the gold miners

525
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,360
are increasingly unhedged cash
generative and sitting on large

526
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:34,280
cash balances without growth
projects, it's going to be

527
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,760
competitive to buy stuff and
yeah, just we haven't seen cash

528
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,360
takeovers in a fair while in the
gold space.

529
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,240
I expect that to come back this
year.

530
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,600
I also think that the the
there'll be some really good

531
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,440
opportunities for larger gold
miners to sell assets in this

532
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,800
kind of market too, for them to
like rationalize their

533
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,840
portfolio, maybe sell some of
their higher cost stuff because

534
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,720
they'll get really good value
for it.

535
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,000
And there are now all the mid
tiers really cashed up to to pay

536
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,080
up for, you know, maybe, you
know, the not so best asset in

537
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,080
the larger company's portfolio.
I.

538
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,920
Think Newmont's a good example
of that over the past six

539
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,320
months.
Just Bang, Bang, bang.

540
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,000
I mean, they've been working
overtime, but just the speed at

541
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,240
which they knocked out all the
the non core assets.

542
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,760
And I think by and large they'll
be getting more money than

543
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,200
consensus was begging it for.
Yeah.

544
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,320
Single asset producers, I think
a bit vulnerable to because

545
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,680
they're, yeah, somewhat
discounted because they're so

546
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,640
much more exposed to single
asset risk and and maybe

547
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,560
they'll, you know, trade skinny
enough that people will, yeah,

548
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,400
find value there.
OK.

549
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,920
It'd be interesting to see if
Gold Fields gets active in

550
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,200
Australia again, if they sort of
just stick to what they've got

551
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,840
or they divest or invest because
there's definitely a lot of

552
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,680
options for them and lockers and
Anglo Goldishani with I still

553
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,840
think, you know, with the cash
that Regis is generating and you

554
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,800
look at the deal that Greatland
got off Newmont, Regis could

555
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:10,960
pull 100% of trop out of Anglo
Goldishani AGI, which they would

556
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,280
have first ride on is that'd be
that'd be a big play for them.

557
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,960
And because there's a, you know,
a lot of future there once that

558
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,680
a lot of underground potential
there after the sort of pit

559
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,800
finishes in a couple of years.
So it'd.

560
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,560
Be worth a lot of money.
Hey that.

561
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,680
Should be big, but do you reckon
you if you're going to get the

562
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,920
best deal possible you'd
probably get it out of a big

563
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,440
company then a small one?
Especially if you've got the pre

564
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,960
emptive, Yeah, that's a lot.
Yeah, but they're stay paid.

565
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:45,920
They paid 900 million for 30%
when gold price was like 3000 an

566
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:46,920
ounce, I think.
I want to say yeah.

567
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,200
Yeah, I'd be I'd be interested
to saying, but that a lot of

568
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,880
that was probably paying for
like, you know the big pit and

569
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,760
and everything.
I think if the not as much as

570
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,800
proven up underground and it
knows that there's going to be a

571
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,800
lot more capital to go into it
with a downsized and cutting the

572
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,480
mill in half.
It's like, well, whether they

573
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,640
might be might be able to get it
a bit cheaper because you've got

574
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,080
to they mightn't want to AGI
mightn't want to put the capital

575
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,320
in sure what?
Do you reckon on goldfields

576
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,800
more, less or sort of equally
involved in Australia in a

577
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,000
year's time?
Just so slow moving.

578
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,040
Well, it's you don't know it's
like like, you know, I think

579
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,040
it's a pretty pivotal year for
Bellevue if they're going to

580
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,480
like because the gold's there
like it is a freaking high grade

581
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,440
mine.
It just as I said, just needs

582
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,800
that reset or Ding Ding Ding as
well.

583
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:41,320
But just, yeah, it's just
whether someone will look at

584
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,120
this pricing environment, think
not yet 1 1/2 bills, you know,

585
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,960
we'll pay that or we're going to
wait for a bit more distress if

586
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,680
they can't pull a couple of
quarters together and try get

587
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,840
them for 1.2.
Not sure, but I think I reckon

588
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,120
that that company would be
amenable to it for a liquidity

589
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,720
event for the major holders.
You know, BlackRock a bloody 15%

590
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,440
shareholder now in it.
So I think, yeah, I think it's

591
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,520
going to be, that'll be
interesting this year.

592
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,880
Yeah, we remember gold fields,
they were revealed to have tried

593
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,320
their luck at getting hold of
Corolla subsequent to West

594
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,480
Golds.
I think this, the scheme

595
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,960
implementation deed was signed,
but they tried to, they had bank

596
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,000
local bankers and we're trying
to get hold of that.

597
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,440
They're going for a site
inspection.

598
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,520
Yeah, well, that the, the
scheme, the scheme, but with the

599
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,120
information circular revealed
that they, they loved a beard at

600
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,560
a better, a better price, but
more conditionality.

601
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:47,200
And the, they did have a change
of, of, of management a bit

602
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,600
before that, I think maybe six
or eight months before that.

603
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,640
So yeah, my God, is that they're
they're much more amenable to

604
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,640
doing things in WA.
Not that we've seen it yet.

605
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,320
It was interesting in that
region I just saw announced

606
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,840
today the new non executive
director for Pantoro is Stuart

607
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,800
Matthews from Goldfields.
He was one of the senior

608
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,240
Goldfields.
OK.

609
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,440
So which and then there's, you
know, there's been the talk

610
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,720
about, you know, wet potentially
W Guild Pantoro with that, you

611
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,560
know, sort of consolidating that
Southern Goldfields region a

612
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,080
bit.
So oh, nice.

613
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,920
Very nice.
We're going to change tech of

614
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,880
jurisdiction and commodity now.
So we've got palm tree capital

615
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,600
and ASICS commodities investor
from Twitter asking about

616
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,640
Indonesian mining.
So Indonesian mining, in

617
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,440
particular ASICS listed
companies, massive resources of

618
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,880
gold, nickel, copper, low cost
environment and but you know,

619
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,160
still close to Australia, but
you know, there's still, you

620
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,040
know, risk factors around
Indonesians growing rapidly.

621
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,200
And then ASICS commodities
investor asked Nickel, what's

622
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,600
your outlook by mid year given
Indonesia scaling back

623
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,680
production in conjunction with
the various operations that were

624
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:03,720
mothballed last year?
Close to Australia, but a very

625
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,280
different jurisdiction.
Yes, it was interesting to see,

626
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,320
I think over the past week or so
that they were talking about

627
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,760
giving out less permits, making
a bit less happen in the nickel

628
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:20,239
space so that, you know, they
can stop the just huge boost in

629
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,440
supply that's come out over the
past few years.

630
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,520
So they want to find a, a, a
price level.

631
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,440
I think they're just playing a
balancing act, right, where they

632
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,719
can disincentivize anyone from
doing any more production around

633
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,120
the world, but get the biggest
bang for buck that they possibly

634
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,239
can.
And yeah, I mean, so much money

635
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,120
has gone in, it's already sunk
there that the nickel is going

636
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,120
to be pumped for for years and
years and years.

637
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,120
As for the the other commodities
you mentioned, they're obviously

638
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,639
done a heap of work in copper to
they've forced Freeport.

639
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,840
Freeport spent 1.2 billion US
this quarter in CapEx choices,

640
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,040
mainly getting the smelter, the
smelter at Grasberg that they're

641
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,280
forced to do because they're no
longer able to export, just

642
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,480
concentrate.
So they need to make, they need

643
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,680
to go a bit further downstream,
very similar to what we saw with

644
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,800
nickel.
Indonesia wants to get more bang

645
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,440
for their buck across the the
board there and Freeport weren't

646
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,800
going to walk away from
Grasberg.

647
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,480
So it's a balancing act.
Lots of other countries have

648
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,640
tried that unsuccessfully.
They've managed to do it OK.

649
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,320
When you have enough of the
market or whatever, you can kind

650
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,400
of do it too, right?
Like Guinea's the the other

651
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,640
example who are, who are, you
know, following a similar path

652
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,880
in relation to the bauxite, Add
more, more, more refining,

653
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:46,160
smelting in country even, which
they're going to be able to do.

654
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:51,280
And yeah, it's, that's actually
a good thing for the for the

655
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,920
miners strangely enough to
globally because you you have a

656
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,480
surplus of refining and smelting
capacity, which means like lower

657
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,360
TCLCS on you, Yeah, which means
you bank a bit more of that

658
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,040
margin.
Freeport's going to get active.

659
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,680
Look, oh, they produced what,
400,000 tonne of copper this

660
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,640
quarter and you know, has said
tried it, such a bloody good

661
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,400
multiple, good paper.
Do you think they're going to

662
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,120
they never really get talked
about for copper acquisitions.

663
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,000
It's always like, you know, BHP,
Rio, Glencore and the names that

664
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,240
get thrown around like.
Yeah, it's Freeport.

665
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,320
Yeah, I think it's a worthy
conversation.

666
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:33,520
There's Grasberg's unpalatable
to Rio and BHP, just the the

667
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,480
fact that the the the tailings
run off into the ocean down

668
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,200
there, down the mountain.
BHP got good history with Yeah.

669
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,280
OK, Teddy, Not sure how you say
that one, but Teddy.

670
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:45,280
Yeah, Teddy.
Yeah.

671
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,920
And Rio had the original pseudo
royalty on Grasberg itself,

672
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,720
which they had to divest
tragically because of the

673
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,800
pushback from the the tailings
of of the operation.

674
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:57,960
Yeah.
I mean, remember we spoke about

675
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,000
last year nor just wouldn't
invest in them because of their

676
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,040
interest in in Grasberg.
Yeah.

677
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:05,960
Oh yeah.
But do you think Freeport will

678
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,760
invest in about like a will it
will you say done more in South

679
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,640
America and stuff?
I'm sure they're looking at it

680
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,480
as much as anyone and you know,
potentially they've got more

681
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,880
richly valued paper to to kind
of do a deal with given they get

682
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,440
all these kind of general funds
and all these sorts of things.

683
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,880
But I mean talking way out of
what I kind of know.

684
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:34,320
Didn't they used to own 10K?
They they sold it in 2016

685
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,680
because they did all these oil
and gas deals at the beginning

686
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,880
of the 20 tens almost went tits
up in 20/15/16 when every

687
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,840
commodity came off and they were
fighting for their life and that

688
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,240
to sell some some really good
assets.

689
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,680
We fired it with the Lundin.
They both sold out, yeah.

690
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,000
But yeah, it's a good one,
Maddie.

691
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,680
Very interesting.
So we've got Ian from Facebook

692
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,760
asked how to spot lifestyle
companies.

693
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,880
What are some good rules of
thumb or sort of screens or red

694
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,840
flags that you guys like to use?
When you say looking at a

695
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,640
company, are you going through a
quarterly or something?

696
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,000
They go like this is a smells to
write.

697
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:20,240
Probably a lifestyle company.
Too many, too many corporate

698
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:26,840
videos and podcast interviews.
High, high sort of amounts of

699
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,800
related party transactions.
They're not all bad, you know,

700
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,840
but just look into the, the
details on them.

701
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,400
If there's, you know, hiring
your, your brother's firm to do

702
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,720
this, your uncle's firm to do
that, those sorts of things.

703
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,920
Just look into the the weeds
there.

704
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,400
Yeah, if you own a, a junior and
it's in there the business of,

705
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,720
of expiration, you're owning it
because you, you expect a

706
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:53,320
catalyst to move its share price
from where it is now.

707
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,160
You're fighting gravity because
the company has a burn rate and

708
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,240
that burn rate is it's overheads
to keep the lights on and pay

709
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,880
all the bills and all that sort
of stuff, which means that, you

710
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,280
know, a couple times a year
they're going to knock the door

711
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,320
for, for new funds from
investors.

712
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,520
And if they're a very small
company, then sometimes the

713
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,320
dilution is so extortionate just
to keep the lights on rise.

714
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,040
If they're 5 million market cap,
they got to raise too.

715
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:19,880
That's a lot.
That's a lot of dilution, right?

716
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,920
I think I do that twice a year.
You know, quickly you're, you're

717
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,280
1% interest in the company
becomes like a .1% interest in

718
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,920
the company just because they've
diluted the, the shares so much.

719
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,640
So what you, I think you really
should be looking for is like,

720
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,560
are they doing anything to get
to the catalyst you're expecting

721
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,280
them to do?
Or are they, are they simply

722
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,000
just dormant?
Like are they, there's, there's,

723
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,320
there's not much work happening,
there's not much news flow.

724
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,160
There's, you know, there's
pretty substantial overheads

725
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,880
which are going to result in the
need for new capital to come in.

726
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,800
If they can manage the, the
capital spend, like if they can

727
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,440
manage the overheads, then
that's not so bad a thing.

728
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,400
If they got like decent cash and
that and they keep they're

729
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,600
running things really skinny,
then you can you can wait a bit

730
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,200
longer if you got to wait for a
different kind of price cycle

731
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,840
for the catalyst to come.
Yeah, and I think I'll caveat

732
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:11,920
that new slow with planning this
or thinking about this and and

733
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,240
you know people are you see a
lot of companies put

734
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,280
announcements out like you know
about that sort of stuff.

735
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,200
It's like OK, but like when have
you are you actually drilling on

736
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,760
the ground?
Have you completed AGF survey?

737
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,560
Have you actually done all of
these things?

738
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,440
Some companies just ship me when
they put, oh, we're thinking

739
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,320
about this evaluating this,
which look, you have to do.

740
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,400
But if like if that's the only
news flow and then you've got

741
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,080
like you say, Trav, this
corporate spend just going on in

742
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,800
the background just to keep the
the lights on.

743
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,760
It's it's frustrating, that's
for sure.

744
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,160
But yeah, looking at the in the
quarterlies, it, you know, does

745
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,160
split it out, you know,
corporate admin spend, you know,

746
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,400
exploration spend, you know, all
all that too.

747
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,280
So, you know, he has, you have
periods with all ebbs and flows,

748
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,400
but if it's, you know, pretty
consistently very minimal on the

749
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:07,040
operational activities front,
it's probably worth looking to,

750
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:07,800
that's for sure.
Yeah.

751
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:09,600
What are you getting for that
burn rate?

752
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,400
You know, yeah.
That's right.

753
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,080
This one's for you.
Specifically for you, Matthew.

754
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,880
So this is from No Pants Vance
from Twitter.

755
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,960
It's I will flash up his
question on the screen.

756
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,760
But I think the the crux of what
he's trying to understand is how

757
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,800
does all body geometry?
So that's, you know, the shape

758
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,520
of, you know, the BLOB of metal
that's in the ground.

759
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,200
How's that important?
When you then go from, say, like

760
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,960
a resource definition stage to
go, OK, now we've got to RIP

761
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,840
this thing out the ground and,
you know, build a pit or build

762
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,080
a, you know, underground mine
that wraps around it.

763
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,320
You know, how can the geometry
affect the engineering side of

764
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,160
things given your, you know,
sort of previous life experience

765
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,560
in that world?
I'll try not to blab on with too

766
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:08,880
much shit, but well, open, open
pit wise, like if you got to

767
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,760
start with a pit, you know, the
more vertical the ore body, the

768
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,120
sort of you can't have a pit for
as long because you're the

769
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,360
deeper you go, the, you know,
the more stripping is required

770
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,120
to sort of follow that down.
So you look at, you know, the,

771
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:25,800
what are the, some of the great
pits?

772
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:31,080
Look at Capricorn Karla window.
Like that's just the, it's just

773
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,240
pretty much the pretty flat
plunging sort of ore body that

774
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:38,360
the the pitch just follows and,
you know, low strip at the start

775
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:39,720
and they just keep following it
down.

776
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:44,440
It's obviously very consistent
and good continuity and like

777
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,280
that's why they've made good
money.

778
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:48,880
So you know, mount Gibson will
be different.

779
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,000
Well, that's, you know,
vertical.

780
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,000
You see that there's not big
massive pits that we go on

781
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:58,600
underground a lot quicker.
Then I guess when you do get

782
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:03,400
underground, it's the the dip of
the ore body is the most is the

783
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,160
the biggest factor at play.
So obviously it's nice having a

784
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,680
not a vertical a vertical ore
body is just easy because it's

785
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,280
just not as soon as as soon as
there's a bit of angle on it.

786
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,000
You got to you mind the Stokes
to to that angle, but that that

787
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,800
hanging wall.
The more angle, the more chance

788
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,240
you've got of that falling in
and diluting the grade.

789
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:29,320
So you know you're simplest
minds like you are a bander for

790
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,120
diverse or Ding Ding Ding as
well.

791
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,720
Just vertical like.
Daisy Milano that was like thin

792
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:40,400
and vertical, but it was a lot
faulty like that was that

793
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,760
created a lot of issues trying
to stay on the ore body.

794
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,840
But just yeah, just you just
nice vertical, just follow the

795
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,320
vine.
Just nice and simple.

796
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:54,000
That's what a lot of a lot of
Northern Stars narrow vine mines

797
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,480
that they've had over the years
were just like that.

798
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:01,240
So and then like so you look at
the mines around like your

799
00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:04,840
Leonora where they go down
instead of being 90°, they're

800
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:09,680
like, you know, 40° thirty.
So Gwalia is like 40°.

801
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,720
So it's obviously dilution.
Controlling the dilution becomes

802
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:18,200
a problem recovering the ore on
the foot wall because it's one

803
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,800
thing controlling the dilution
there.

804
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,720
But when it's laid right over, I
think the natural angle of

805
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:27,880
repose for dirt to run down a
hill is 55°.

806
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,400
So essentially once it goes past
55° and it's flatter, the ore

807
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,680
will sit on the foot wall and
you either have to wash it down

808
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,600
or you have to take more angle
out of the football and take

809
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,960
waste to get to that, you know,
5560° to get to get it to real.

810
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,920
So you can bog it.
And then the more it dips over

811
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,760
the, you have to do a lot more
sort of you have to do you have

812
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,400
to, you have a lot more
development per vertical meter

813
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,640
in the OR drives.
Because if you had 20m level

814
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:06,120
spacings, but it's dipping at
45°, it's like a 30m drill hole

815
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,360
to reach the other level.
So you have to condense the

816
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:14,800
levels a lot closer.
So, and which could be it's less

817
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,640
decline development, but it's a
lot more operating development

818
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,400
too.
But it's and it's just, it's

819
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,800
just a bit more difficult and
then so that's, that's deep.

820
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,240
But then like, look, while
they've been doing it for

821
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,720
frigging, you know, 1000 odd
meters vertically, I don't

822
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:32,520
under, I don't think it was like
that the whole time.

823
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,240
But they've, you know, once
rinse and repeat, they get it

824
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:40,240
down pat and they've obviously
got a way to recover it the best

825
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:43,000
they can, but then proven up the
answers.

826
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,680
The other one is plunge that we
talk about the shape.

827
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,960
So Gualia has a big plunge,
Paulson's had a big plunge.

828
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,840
And that means there's your dip
of your body looking this way.

829
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,760
But then if you spin around 90°,
it's where where the ore body's

830
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,320
going.
I'm also like, is it just going

831
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,800
like?
This or is it turning around

832
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,800
going that way?
So like Agnew Warunga for

833
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,400
Goldfields that was like just
dead vertical, like it's just a

834
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,480
decline that just spiraled next
to it.

835
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,720
Paulsen's for instance, had a
has a big plunge.

836
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:14,960
I think Fireflies one has a big
plunge.

837
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,480
Gualia has a big plunge.
So what happens there is to

838
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,920
actually infill drill as you go
down to get the confidence in

839
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,880
the ore body becomes more
difficult because if it's got

840
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:29,360
the big plunge to drill 300
meters below, if you were just

841
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,560
drilling from next to the ore
body to get the angle on it is

842
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,560
impossible because it's so far
away.

843
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:38,360
So you've got to develop these
long exploration drives to get

844
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,240
over the top of it to get a
better angle.

845
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,120
So that obviously costs more,
but then it's trying to get the

846
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:48,120
geological confidence to
geological confidence is what

847
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,840
drives your guidance for the
next year because you got to

848
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,000
know pretty bloody close what
the grade is.

849
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,160
So you tell the market we're
getting 200,000 oz.

850
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:03,480
But if you the apple a factor in
the grade doesn't come out of

851
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,880
that number.
So plant plunge is another one.

852
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,000
And then for that's why Gualia
doesn't have it, doesn't have a

853
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,320
shaft in it because they never
got to the point.

854
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,800
It just kept it obviously kept
going and going, but they never

855
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,760
got to the point to say, right,
we have enough confidence in the

856
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,680
ore body down here and we're
going to pick a point to put the

857
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,240
shaft in here because because
the ore body is plunging, you

858
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:29,680
can't like it's too hard extend
the shaft later on because the

859
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,000
ore body keeps getting further
away from the shaft.

860
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,920
So you have to pick a point to
put it in.

861
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,800
There you go that.
Was actually very interesting.

862
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,560
But 10?
Percent of bloody everything

863
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,920
you'll need to know there, yeah.
But the take away basically

864
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:50,200
being that I sort of got from
that is basically the the all

865
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:54,280
body geometry depending on what
sort of if you're developing as

866
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,560
an open pit or an underground
can impact basically your

867
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,440
material movement.
And the more material you're

868
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,240
having to move, the more that's
going to cost and also the

869
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:07,080
logistics that's involved with,
you know, more difficult

870
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,800
material movement at angles and
things.

871
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:13,000
Like that well, and geometry is
also if you look at where the

872
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:19,720
location as well, because let's
look at Spartan Spartan's got

873
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:24,960
never never then you know,
Peppers right next to it then is

874
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,400
at 4.
They got 4 pillars sort of up

875
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,280
strike from that.
And they're sort of all lined up

876
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,080
next to each other.
And they've got the decline

877
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,240
coming in from the pit and
they'll just go past each ore

878
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:40,280
body and then keep going down
and sort of they can piggyback

879
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,440
off off the infrastructure, like
off the ventilation, the

880
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,200
pumping, the power as they sort
of go down.

881
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,560
And they're accessing multiple
ore bodies all from sort of the

882
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,920
one entry point, what from the
one decline.

883
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,240
Whereas Bellevue, for instance,
like Bellevue's got, you know,

884
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,480
crack and grade crack and ore
body.

885
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,080
But there's a bit over here,
there's a bit over there,

886
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,800
there's a bit bloody behind me.
So you've got sort of

887
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,040
independent mining areas
accessing all these places with

888
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,880
which need independent
infrastructure like like pumping

889
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,160
ventilation power.
And you got to sort of spread it

890
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,600
out everywhere, which is you
would anticipate why they're,

891
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,320
you know, struggling to get the
answers out of the hole is

892
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:27,840
managing the complexity of the
constraints of infrastructure.

893
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:33,120
So once you once you pile all
that together, they all, there's

894
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,880
good bits of it and bad bits of
each of it, you'll figure out is

895
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,240
it good or not?
Yeah.

896
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,640
Or or or you you have a vote on
whether it's good or not.

897
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,440
Alright, no, that was a very
comprehensive one there like

898
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:46,640
that.
Well, I was only there for

899
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,680
bloody 14 years and I know about
10% of what I need to know.

900
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,920
So it's just that's why when
someone's been mining for 30 or

901
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,280
40 years, you're frigging listen
to what they have to say.

902
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,840
Absolutely, yeah.
But Trev, we've got one from

903
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:05,960
Nick Huntley, who are Stam.
So this is for those who don't

904
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,200
know Stam.
As Samuel Terry Asset Management

905
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,560
in their last quarterly noted,
they're now holding a gold

906
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,040
producer.
Who do you think it is?

907
00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:17,360
Well, actually did not know
that.

908
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:19,520
I didn't read the last
quarterly.

909
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,960
I read the one before that.
That's a great question.

910
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,240
Who would stand by there?
They didn't name it.

911
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:30,880
They didn't name who.
Yeah, apparently don't know,

912
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,080
according to Nick Nye.
Knowing those guys, it'll be

913
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,440
something funky where there's a
bunch of latent value that the

914
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,240
market's not quite seeing.
Yeah.

915
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,760
Like they're, they've got a good
eye, Those those guys.

916
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,000
Not entirely they, they hold a
bit of gold bullion as well.

917
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,280
Jada.
Yeah, I could be wrong.

918
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,880
They did last time I read one of
their reports.

919
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,720
Yeah, pretty sure.
So I, I don't know Ally, I don't

920
00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:55,440
know it'd be.
Someone left field wouldn't.

921
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,560
It it would be 100% would be
left field.

922
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:02,240
They yeah, just find value where
you usually just look past it.

923
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,720
Value and sort of catalysts
where they can kind of make

924
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,880
something happen in a way.
Catalyst is a big one.

925
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,880
I think they are, yeah,
exceptionally good at creating

926
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,400
catalysts.
Yeah.

927
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:17,640
Like, yeah, if anyone wants to
look up a just look up Nam on

928
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,960
the ASX, it's Namwa Cotton.
Namwa Cotton.

929
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,880
Oh, yeah, check, check.
Just just go over the the series

930
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,880
of that company's announcements
over the last 12 months and I

931
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,320
think you'll kind of see the
value creation stem are capable

932
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,600
of of creating for shareholders.
It was an announcement almost

933
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,000
every week, so I have a fair
bit.

934
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:43,880
Of rating and I'm going to do
one last quick round table each.

935
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:48,680
I've got a question for each of
you and after you played a lot

936
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:50,960
of golf over the summer.
Break I did.

937
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,040
Tito trades from 2:00 to US.
What's Maddie's handicap?

938
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,640
I was 15.
I got 2 I think sort of.

939
00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,000
Sort of.
Yeah, yeah.

940
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:04,600
Now I think I hit 17 the other
day playing on 15, about 15.

941
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:06,880
Very good.
Bloody volatile.

942
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:13,880
It's like, what stock would I
compare my golfing to?

943
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,120
Nah, but the shells I ain't get
in at the bottom.

944
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,360
What I think is the bottom.
What would you compare it to?

945
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,360
A.
Certain uranium company you

946
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,800
hold.
Maybe yeah it's on and I'd be

947
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,680
one day the drivers gone good
and the irons are fucked, then

948
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,080
next day the bloody drivers
bloody shit itself and I'm

949
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,760
smashing the irons and then
usually the pot is fucked the

950
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:38,600
whole time.
So it's.

951
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,120
Like.
Good fun.

952
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,080
Anyone that wants a game on a
Friday from Galford hit me up I.

953
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,640
Love it.
Actually, I had on a separate

954
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,080
thing I had to think about the
other day.

955
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,720
We were talking about what's
like the, the, the finance or

956
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:53,600
the the West Perth equivalent of
of word on the decline.

957
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,720
And I think I've thought of it.
Oh, what is it?

958
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,840
I think it's the WhatsApp on Hay
Street.

959
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:00,840
What'sapp on Hay Street?
Yeah, that's good.

960
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,200
I love it.
That can be for finance Goss.

961
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,800
We can do WhatsApp on Hay.
Street, Yeah, 'cause everyone's

962
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,560
like.
WhatsApp send anything on

963
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:14,840
WhatsApp, it's safe.
This guy, the guy's one of the

964
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,280
biggest insider trains.
Yeah, it was in Australia.

965
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,280
Like, don't worry, it's all
good.

966
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,400
We're talking on WhatsApp.
But that's what they wrote in

967
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:22,800
WhatsApp.
It's fully.

968
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,400
Encrypted.
And then you got the Australian

969
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,280
Federal Police reading it all.
Oh, it's golden.

970
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,840
Crazy JD, what was your favorite
book you read over the summer

971
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,200
break?
Not sure anyone's going to chase

972
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,320
me up on this one, but I read a
book called Kaput.

973
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,120
I spent a bit of time in
Germany, got family and stuff

974
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:44,400
from there, and it's on the the
struggles of the German economy

975
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,760
going forward.
We've spoken about the energy

976
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,840
problems, reliance on Russia and
all these sorts of things.

977
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:54,240
So it was seriously interesting
talking about a, a lack of

978
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:57,880
investment in appropriate
industries, a lack of sort of

979
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:02,000
resilience in critical parts of
your economy.

980
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,280
Yep.
And getting a bit sort of

981
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,880
sidetracked by certain
ideologies and and those sorts

982
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:09,480
of things.
It was.

983
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,160
It was really interesting.
Awesome.

984
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,880
And finally, Trev, what was your
favorite dog friendly pub you

985
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,880
visited over the summer?
Oh, I didn't go to any dog

986
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:20,480
friendly pubs over there.
Oh no, I did.

987
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,880
Yeah, it went down to
Bridgetownish area.

988
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,480
There was a cider cidery in
Nanup.

989
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,480
There's like a very cool, No,
it's Bridgetown.

990
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:31,760
Bridgetown cidery.
Yeah, that was.

991
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,080
Just on the outskirts of town
there.

992
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, years ago.
It's awesome spot down there.

993
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:37,560
Yeah, Yeah.
So that was good.

994
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:38,840
But what took once there?
Yeah, it's.

995
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:39,760
Good.
Love it.

996
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,920
Very good guys.
Thanks for answering all those

997
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,440
questions from the the money
miners on the fly that.

998
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,120
Was you?
You hosted so well.

999
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:48,120
JC No.
I don't.

1000
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,480
It's such a good body Q&A.
Moderator.

1001
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,080
They take the.
Spot at conferences.

1002
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:59,320
Righty there we go, well
facilitated as JC.

1003
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,160
You could just dead set consult
yourself around Perth and the

1004
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,880
Greater Australia being AQ and a
facilitator.

1005
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,600
Oh, that was so well.
Done so well done.

1006
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,520
Learn tapes too, so.
What a job we have.

1007
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,920
I know if today is anything to
go by.

1008
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,400
We get paid for this.
It's amazing.

1009
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,080
But.
Go to the mining industry.

1010
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,840
Oh mate, pay yourself a favour
as well and get a freaking

1011
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,840
underground operators ticket and
you can pay.

1012
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:29,600
It's effectively paying yourself
100 bucks because you get $100

1013
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:34,400
off using the code MOM 100.
Lincoln is in the show notes the

1014
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,720
greatest underground conference
in the world.

1015
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,520
April 7th the 9th in April in
Adelaide we've.

1016
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,440
Got to thank the.
Greatest open pit mining

1017
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,520
contractor ever Mineral mining
services.

1018
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,320
Greatest camp builder ever
Grounded.

1019
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:53,720
The greatest The greatest source
of keeping the rock up

1020
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:54,960
underground.
Sam.

1021
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:56,360
Big ground support.
Yep.

1022
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,920
Definitely the greatest
insurance brokers ever.

1023
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:04,200
See our insurance K drill.
Like you could say the greatest

1024
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,280
driller ever, but you you would
say Ron O'Sullivan is the

1025
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,920
greatest bloke ever.
As well, Yeah.

1026
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,880
Salt Bush contracting the
greatest bulk college specialist

1027
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:18,240
and the greatest do any shit job
specialist on your mindset.

1028
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:25,560
Salt Bush contracting sweet jeez
possibly 78 million drill

1029
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,360
meters.
Possibly the greatest

1030
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,800
underground diamond driller ever
outside Quattro project

1031
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,680
engineering based on everything
they've invented.

1032
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:39,280
Just the greatest engineering
firm ever cross boundary energy.

1033
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,800
Well, Tim Taylor's the greatest
bloke ever that has provided

1034
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:51,680
independent power solutions and
on AGC you're the greatest, just

1035
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,760
the greatest sidekick on a
bloody.

1036
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,680
Podcast.
Outside this week.

1037
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:57,360
Good.
Work.

1038
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,880
You've been the greatest partner
I've had in the podcast this

1039
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,800
week.
This week, your only partner.

1040
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,160
Have a good weekend.
Money miners tutoring money

1041
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:11,240
miners.
Information contained in this

1042
00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:14,000
episode of Money of Mine is of
general nature only and does not

1043
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,640
take into account the
objectives, financial situation

1044
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:18,680
or needs of any particular
person.

1045
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,040
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

1046
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,080
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

1047
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,800
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.