Warren Irwin on Uranium, Canada & Contrarian Opportunities

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Right eye body boarders were
gonna bloody legend from across

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the ditch here Mr Warren Irwin
from Rosso Asset Management and

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here we say it in Australia is
Wazi.

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Hey, how are you cover?
I'm doing great.

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So are we going to have Travis
the translator here?

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Yeah, it's the translator.
Alright, good night.

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What was it?
Before we get into it right

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where you're our boots on the
ground over there.

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I'll tell you what, if anyone
over there is doing any

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exploration drilling and they're
not using Axis Mine and

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Technology Gyros or Ories guy,
give him a bloody uppercut for

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respite.
Get the North American bloody

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users onto it.
Well, I reckon, you know, this

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one takes us down a bit of a
trip down memory lane, fellas.

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Warren was our our first guest
on the show over a year ago.

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And there's a few topics that I
think we should touch back in on

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because they're, you know,
they've become even more in

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flavour sort of times gone, gone
by.

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So things like resource
nationalism, Canada and the

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rules around M and A and these
sorts of things that's come back

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in Fuego really, you know, in
the last week or so.

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But in particular in the in the
last months, it was sort of

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warming up, going from just
affecting China to a more global

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kind of outlook there.
And then you've got all the, all

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the sorts of commodities Warrens
and got some hot takes on on

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uranium.
Been a long time investor in the

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space.
So there's a lot for us to kind

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of get through.
But I want to start with Canada

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M&A, the rules that as a country
they've been put in place to

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kind of protect their their
national champions.

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And I want to hear from from
you, Warren, how this has sort

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of gone down.
You're, you're based in, in

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Toronto, you are I think one of
the longest running natural

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resource funds in the business.
So I want to see, I can hear

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from you what sort of the
changes that we're seeing in the

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past couple weeks and months in
Canada, how they sort of play

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into the the longer term cycles
that you've been a part of in

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the mining industry.
Yeah, you know, it's been

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generally the governments left
us alone over the last many,

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many decades that I've been
involved in it.

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But recently the government
thought it'd be a great idea to

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start interfering.
And as you know, with when

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government started interfering
with the, with the, with a

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business or an industry, bad
things happen, right?

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So the biggest concern we have
these days is I think what

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triggered it was when we had neo
lithium, I was an early seed

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investor in neo lithium.
It was an outstanding lithium

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play in Argentina.
And it was sold to the Chinese

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and it was a Canadian company
sold to the Chinese.

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And the Canadian government took
offence of that.

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And they somehow think they,
they have extraterritorial

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rights to control who owns a
project in Argentina.

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So that sort of spurred things
on.

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And now if you're, if you're a
critical metal company, you

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cannot basically sell to the
Chinese.

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Whereas, you know, Dan Earl of
Solaris found out recently you

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can't even take an equity
investment from the Chinese,

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even though frankly capital is
tough to come by and there's no

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Western companies interested in
investing.

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A lot of the the juniors out
there that the Chinese have a

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big been a big part of the last
number of years in the junior

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capital markets in helping, you
know, raise money, get mines

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built.
And now the Canadian government

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somehow thinks it would be a
good idea to to stop all that.

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And the problem with that,
there's nobody to take their

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place.
And the Western companies are

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not there to start buying up
these juniors or helping fund

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the juniors build out these
projects.

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And the ones most susceptible, I
think, are copper porphyries,

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because they take so much money
to drill up and they take so

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much money to build.
And that's where the world needs

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the most help from the Chinese
to get these into production.

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But the Canadian government
doesn't seem to seem to think

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that's a good idea.
More fries are in Canada.

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Is there many up?
That one, well, it's, it's not

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really even Canada, right?
Like like Solaris, you know,

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it's an Ecuador company and
you've got also got, you know,

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Philo has got operations in
Argentina and looks like they'll

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get probably picked off by
lending, lending, mining and

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BHP.
But the poor freeze, Canada is a

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very not, not unlike Australia.
We're very international in that

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not only do we find a lot of
minds in Canada, but we're,

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we're global leaders and
exploration.

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We're active, very active along
the copper belt in South

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America.
And as you noted, drill out of

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copper porphyry takes a tonne of
drilling and it takes a tonne of

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capital.
The capital markets haven't been

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there, but the, the Chinese have
been willing to invest in, in

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copper porphyries and help move
things along and eventually buy

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them and build them.
And the problem we have if you

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take a look at the big copper
producers globally on the BHP,

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Rio Tintos, freeports that are
that are Western companies, they

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haven't been stepping up to the
plate in and buying a lot of

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these juniors where the Chinese
have been.

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So we're kind of in a bit of a
pickle where, you know, when

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somebody pitches me a copper
porphyry deal, I go, why would I

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ever invest in you?
Because nobody could buy them.

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And even if there was a Western,
Western miner who could buy

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them, then there's no
competitive attention because

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they know that they're in short
supply and that the Chinese

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can't bid against them.
So what I see happening here,

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we'll, we'll, we'll probably get
a change in government next year

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in Canada, which I think a lot
of these rules will will be

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reversed.
But meanwhile, I think a number

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of people who are anywhere near,
you know, monetization event

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will be re domiciling outside of
Canada, which again, once again

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hurts Canada and doesn't do
anything for whatever the

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Canadian government is trying to
accomplish with this these

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rules.
So is that the even though

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landlines got all the all the
power over that Vacuna district

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is the only way BHP would have
got in with them into that area

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anyways through London because
they need the London group to

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satisfy these new potential
Canadian laws?

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You know, I don't think frankly,
I, I really don't, you know, I'm

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not 100% up to speed on that,
but I, I deal with, you know,

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BHP fairly regularly and I know
the Lundens for decades.

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And I've also been to Philos
property in the top of the Andes

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there.
So frankly, I don't think the

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Canadian government have any
problem with Philo being sold to

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the to BHP.
And the problem with a lot of

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these rules, they're, they're
trying to protect Canadian

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mining.
But you know the horse is still

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is long gone out of the stable,
right.

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When they sold Falconbridge, the
foreigners they sold inco to

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foreigners still inco do to
valet, right?

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They sold Falconbridge Glencore.
Now Glencore just bought the

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choice assets of tech.
So what else is there in Canada?

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There's of any significant
mining companies or there's very

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few.
The only miners that are left

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really are the gold miners.
And gold in the Canadian

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government's view is not a
strategic medal for whatever

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reason.
I don't know what to them is

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strategic or non strategic
because, you know, I know metals

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that should be strategic, but
they're not.

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And then metal metals that they
consider strategic that I don't

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think should be.
So it's kind of a huge mess.

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And for a guy like myself trying
to invest in this market, it's,

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it's, it's, it's really making
an already difficult business

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even more difficult.
When you look at like the, the

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guidance that came out when
yeah, techs Elk Valley resources

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assets were were recently kind
of approved by the Canadian

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government to be sold to
Glencore.

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The guidance was that we'll only
be selling, you know, these,

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these giant, these M and a, the,
the M and a kind of, sorry, the

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mining leaders in the most
exceptional circumstances.

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So it's the exception, not the
rule that these sorts of

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transactions would be approved
or at least for the current

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government regime.
Like there's got to be some

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pretty big implications for the
entrepreneurial kind of mining

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company about choosing where
they want to set up the company

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now as a result of that.
Absolutely, absolutely.

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I'm not sure if you followed me
on Twitter, but back I got in

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tonnes of trouble back January,
February this year, I went out

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and I, I, I tweeted that, you
know that Solaris is their

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investment by decision.
Mining was going to get turned

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down by the Canadian government
and everybody was all over me.

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How would you know this blah,
blah, blah, blah blah.

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Well, anyways, I found out.
So then Solaris phones me up,

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you know.
So Warren, you know the, there's

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Dan early Warren.
You know, the Canadian

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government has told us they have
not made a decision yet.

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And I said, well, they could
tell you what they want, but for

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my sources, they made the
decision not going to help for

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this investment.
So that was kind of good for Dan

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because Dan was able to just
pound the table as hard as he

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could and get as much close
behind them to kind of get

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things going in Solaris's favour
to allow for this Chinese

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investment.
In fact, one of the things

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during the PDC in Toronto, the
president of Ecuador actually

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came up and met with Trudeau.
And I'm sure I wasn't in the

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meeting, but I'm sure that would
have been a topic of

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conversation.
But sure enough, at the end of

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the day, you know Solaris
couldn't take their money and

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they went on with other options.
So despite all the work Dan did

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to try and, you know, keep the
Canadian government happy, it

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wasn't enough.
And even with the the president

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of Ecuador coming up to Canada
trying encourage, encourage this

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investment into into Ecuador, it
was, it was, it was not

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something that they wanted.
And it's really funny because

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again, this is an Ecuadorian
copper project and what is the

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Canadian government?
What control do they have?

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What control do they think they
should have over the entire

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world?
And who should own?

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Like should they have a control
over who should own projects in

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Ecuador or should the Ecuadorian
government?

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And I'm sort of of the view if
the Ecuadorian government

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doesn't want the Chinese, that's
their decision.

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But but they do have Chinese up,
up and operating copper mines in

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in Ecuador and they seem to be
pretty happy with them.

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So I don't, it's totally baffles
me as to who would have pushed

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this agenda forward with our
government and why it's even in

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place.
And hence Canadian juniors have

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no choice but to read domicile.
So anybody who has any hope of

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selling to the Chinese will read
domicile outside of Canada,

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making our Canadian industry
even weaker.

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So it's it's kind of wacky, that
is for sure.

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So Warren, one of the the other
deals that we had heard a bit of

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chatter about was REO
potentially going after tech now

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that's the the tech obviously
with all the copper assets now

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that valleys sort of been spun
out, what sort of odds did you

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give that one have gone through?
Oh, oh man, no idea.

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No idea.
Like who who knows?

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You know, the, the, the rules
are you're relying on the

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government making a decision
based on a policy that doesn't

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make sense from the first in the
first instance.

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So that's a tricky one.
You know, Rios actively active

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in Canada already?
A lot of them, you know, BHP is

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active in Canada.
All these guys are active in

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Canada.
Same with Glencore and Valet and

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and all of a sudden I don't know
what this policy would say to

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that.
It would be a shame for us to

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lose tech because it's good to
have a Canadian office in the

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Canadian head office in
Vancouver.

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I guess what they'll do is not
unlike what they they did with

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Glencore, make sure that the,
you know, the Canadian offices

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stay here, if that that helps at
all.

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It's just, but the leadership is
outside of Canada for sure with

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respect to any, any strategic
capital allocations and things

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like that.
So it's I have no idea whether

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Rio would ever be allowed to do
that.

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And tech is kind of a an
interesting company.

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I would if I was running tech, I
would not in a million years

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have ever sold their out Valley
coal.

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00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:57,320
It was just you watched their
cash flow just plummeting like

225
00:11:57,330 --> 00:12:00,620
crazy now.
And you know, Glencore, not sure

226
00:12:00,630 --> 00:12:03,400
if you guys been following too
closely, but it would have been

227
00:12:03,410 --> 00:12:07,000
their intention to create a, a
coal division like Glencore Coal

228
00:12:07,010 --> 00:12:09,180
or whatever they're going to
call it and spin it out on

229
00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:10,520
Glencore.
Yeah.

230
00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:12,560
Do you know why it's not going
to happen?

231
00:12:12,690 --> 00:12:15,560
Well, it was, I think it was
just like a bit of a, a

232
00:12:15,570 --> 00:12:18,520
bargaining chip to kind of get
the cables on, on board in the

233
00:12:18,530 --> 00:12:20,860
1st place and the second they're
going to pull the shareholders.

234
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:23,720
But I don't think, I don't think
there was ever much desire

235
00:12:23,730 --> 00:12:26,140
internally at Glencore to ever
spin it out.

236
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:28,440
But it was just a talking point
to kind of get the deal with

237
00:12:28,450 --> 00:12:29,720
tech over the line in the first
point.

238
00:12:30,210 --> 00:12:32,990
Well, perhaps I just think that
if they ever did it, I would be

239
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,610
the lining up to buy their
shares.

240
00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:38,590
Like Can you imagine Glencore
running a met coal and possibly

241
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,390
some, you know, some thermal
coal in there too.

242
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,610
But metallurgical coal in the
next 20 years is going to be a

243
00:12:43,620 --> 00:12:45,950
fantastic place to invest.
Do you know what's amazing?

244
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,370
Right when I was thinking about
this literally in the shower

245
00:12:48,380 --> 00:12:53,450
today, it's like every every,
every like major minor was just

246
00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:56,870
in a Stampede to divest their
their met coal assets and it was

247
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,210
there was so scared.
They were so worried that they

248
00:12:59,220 --> 00:13:02,580
were going to get get like
massive capital flows vested

249
00:13:02,590 --> 00:13:04,760
from them if they didn't make
these strict ESG kind of

250
00:13:04,770 --> 00:13:06,860
thresholds that were mostly
thrust upon them by the

251
00:13:06,910 --> 00:13:08,820
Norwegian sovereign wealth fund.
Right.

252
00:13:08,910 --> 00:13:11,600
And now you look at it and
Glencore has just said, Yep,

253
00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:13,460
I'll take that, I'll take that,
I'll take that.

254
00:13:13,510 --> 00:13:16,220
Like like sucked up some of the
best assets out there.

255
00:13:16,270 --> 00:13:18,980
And guess what, mate, Glencore
now trades it like that.

256
00:13:18,990 --> 00:13:22,200
Glencore run hard since you to
date and it actually trades at a

257
00:13:22,210 --> 00:13:26,680
premium E done multiple to Rio
Tinto BHP right now, right.

258
00:13:26,750 --> 00:13:29,480
So so these these fucking stupid
miners that were out there

259
00:13:29,490 --> 00:13:33,060
thinking I want to avoid the D
rate now I'm literally on a

260
00:13:33,070 --> 00:13:34,670
relative.
This is derated to Glencore.

261
00:13:34,740 --> 00:13:38,970
What fucking geniuses.
Well, here's here's my favourite

262
00:13:38,980 --> 00:13:42,730
is what what I I'm sort of a
believer that there was some

263
00:13:42,740 --> 00:13:44,950
some intention.
I don't know how much to spin

264
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,070
off and create a, a Glencore
Coal.

265
00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:53,470
I think that would be a
fantastic, fantastic vehicle for

266
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,680
me to invest in.
I would love to own it.

267
00:13:55,730 --> 00:13:58,660
But I think the reason the
shareholders of Glencore don't

268
00:13:58,670 --> 00:14:02,240
want that to happen is because a
number of the shareholders could

269
00:14:02,250 --> 00:14:06,320
not invest strictly in a cool
project, a coal coal mining

270
00:14:06,330 --> 00:14:08,840
company.
They would be chastised for

271
00:14:08,850 --> 00:14:10,300
that.
So they're going, hey, don't

272
00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:13,740
give, don't pull the tack on us
here and spin off all your big

273
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:16,520
cash flowing assets and all this
tremendous upside in the met

274
00:14:16,530 --> 00:14:21,100
coal market.
And because we cannot invest in

275
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:26,050
it because of our ESG mandates.
So I think there they'll be

276
00:14:26,060 --> 00:14:29,350
trying to protect that that cool
cash flow like crazy and keep it

277
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,350
within Glencore.
I could definitely see why they

278
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,570
want to do that.
But I would so dearly love to

279
00:14:34,580 --> 00:14:38,170
have a met coal champion run by
the smart guys at Glencore.

280
00:14:38,180 --> 00:14:40,430
It would be a fantastic company
to invest in.

281
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,350
And it reminds me of back in the
day.

282
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,480
You guys are probably too young
for this but back in the early

283
00:14:46,490 --> 00:14:51,250
90s when all the do good are the
ESG of the time, do gooders were

284
00:14:51,260 --> 00:14:55,170
saying well we won't invest in
tobacco companies and men over

285
00:14:55,180 --> 00:14:57,440
the next several decades.
So much money was made in

286
00:14:57,450 --> 00:15:01,730
tobacco for people who could it
was unbelievable whether it be

287
00:15:01,740 --> 00:15:04,830
Phillip Morris or any of the any
of the big guys made a fortune

288
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,430
in tobacco over the next several
decades because because all the

289
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,260
do gooders had these mandates
couldn't invest them in the

290
00:15:11,270 --> 00:15:14,850
dividend yields were huge.
The dividends, dividends paid

291
00:15:14,860 --> 00:15:18,770
out were massive and a lot of
money was made.

292
00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:22,310
And I, I see that possibly
happening here for any, any

293
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,150
standalone coal producer,
especially met coal producer

294
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,410
because Matt, you know, there's
no hope that they'll have a

295
00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:30,570
substitution for met coal in the
next several decades, in my

296
00:15:30,580 --> 00:15:33,150
opinion.
So, so Warren, as as far as I

297
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,130
understand, the only coal name
in your portfolio is Colonial

298
00:15:37,140 --> 00:15:39,130
coal.
That's what I've sort of

299
00:15:39,140 --> 00:15:41,220
surmised from my research.
What?

300
00:15:41,230 --> 00:15:45,110
Why haven't you picked up the
likes of an Alpha Warrior or

301
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,950
come down to the ASX for some of
the exposure down here in

302
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,420
amongst that sort of bullishness
that you've got for the

303
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:54,460
commodity?
Yeah, well, even even me there's

304
00:15:54,540 --> 00:15:57,660
there's only so much bad colic
and one of My Portfolio and I'm

305
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:59,090
choking on it right now.
I.

306
00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:04,840
Want.
Like I meant I bought, I bought

307
00:16:04,850 --> 00:16:08,480
colonial coal at 15 cents with a
30 cent half warrant and now

308
00:16:08,490 --> 00:16:13,060
it's to a 260.
So I, I haven't had any room in

309
00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:17,300
My Portfolio to add additional
coal exposure unless I sold

310
00:16:17,370 --> 00:16:19,560
colonial and I don't want to
sell colonial.

311
00:16:19,610 --> 00:16:22,660
But when Colonial gets sold and
you know, may get sold pretty

312
00:16:22,670 --> 00:16:26,140
soon here, but who knows, I'm
going to take all that money.

313
00:16:26,150 --> 00:16:29,780
And it would be really tough for
me to take that money and put it

314
00:16:29,790 --> 00:16:32,870
in anything other than than
medical companies.

315
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,410
Like I was thinking Alpha and
Alpha warrior.

316
00:16:35,420 --> 00:16:37,730
And then hopefully by that time
Glencore, I'll figure out

317
00:16:37,740 --> 00:16:39,650
whether going to spin off a coal
division or not.

318
00:16:39,660 --> 00:16:42,670
But those would be my 3:00.
I'm going to roll up my sleeves

319
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,620
pretty hard and, and get into
but you know, Matt Cole, man,

320
00:16:46,630 --> 00:16:50,140
it's going to be a fantastic
place to be because I was, I was

321
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:53,940
bugging the a number of my
friends recently about OK, when

322
00:16:53,950 --> 00:16:56,580
was the last time you were
pitched a junior exploration

323
00:16:56,590 --> 00:17:00,220
company that was going to
explore for Matt Cole?

324
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,190
No, not, not in my career.
It never happens.

325
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,990
So you've got to you've got to
demand trajectory, right like

326
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,380
India is looking in the next
decade, the double steel

327
00:17:11,390 --> 00:17:13,680
production, they're one of the
biggest users of metal.

328
00:17:13,690 --> 00:17:16,050
They're going to double
production like the demand

329
00:17:16,060 --> 00:17:19,760
growth in met coal is an
extraordinary and guess what,

330
00:17:22,060 --> 00:17:24,790
nobody's looking for it.
And there's pretty much three

331
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,630
major regions in the world where
you could find high quality Matt

332
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:33,760
Cole and umm, you know, it's a,
it's an interesting place to be

333
00:17:33,770 --> 00:17:36,280
and people think Matt Cole is
going to be phased out.

334
00:17:36,290 --> 00:17:39,160
It won't be phased out.
This whole, this whole full

335
00:17:39,170 --> 00:17:41,020
cycle hydrogen stuff is not
working.

336
00:17:41,030 --> 00:17:46,100
And we've been making steel with
met coal for at least 100 years

337
00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:48,340
and it's not going to be an easy
thing to change.

338
00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:51,100
Like I wouldn't want to drive
across a bridge just built out

339
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:54,670
of steel with some new, new
process that doesn't generate

340
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,000
CO2.
I I would rather generate a bit

341
00:17:57,010 --> 00:17:59,340
of CO2 and take, you know, and
have high quality bridge.

342
00:17:59,870 --> 00:18:02,920
But yeah, I'm really bullish on
met coal.

343
00:18:02,930 --> 00:18:05,280
It's a place to be.
God that would be the funniest

344
00:18:05,290 --> 00:18:08,580
thing ever if we start saying
met coal exploration companies

345
00:18:08,790 --> 00:18:10,800
like that.
Something I would never thought

346
00:18:10,810 --> 00:18:13,820
I would have ever seen.
But why wouldn't it?

347
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:15,520
Why shouldn't there be?
Cause you can't.

348
00:18:15,530 --> 00:18:19,680
Build No kidding.
Like so I, I, I take the piss

349
00:18:19,690 --> 00:18:23,780
out of my like I'm, I'm I'm
optimistic on uranium, OK, but

350
00:18:23,790 --> 00:18:26,350
that means I'm a I'm a bear for
to most people, right, because

351
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:30,160
they're all $200.00 uranium.
I'm saying guys, compare the

352
00:18:30,170 --> 00:18:33,570
number of uranium juniors
looking for uranium and remember

353
00:18:33,620 --> 00:18:36,580
all the uranium that was still
in the ground from last cycle.

354
00:18:37,470 --> 00:18:40,180
Everybody's looking for uranium.
There's tonnes of projects that

355
00:18:40,190 --> 00:18:44,180
are still kicking around from
the last cycle demand.

356
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:47,640
You can't build nuclear reactors
super darn fast.

357
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,730
And you compare that metrics to
met coal where you've got

358
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:57,550
nobody's looking for it, nobody
wants to own the stocks and

359
00:18:57,660 --> 00:19:01,690
demand for it, certainly in
India is skyrocketing and just

360
00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:03,850
rocking and rolling.
These steel companies are

361
00:19:03,860 --> 00:19:07,220
expanding like crazy.
And I'm not sure if you know US

362
00:19:07,230 --> 00:19:09,490
steels, people are trying to buy
US steel.

363
00:19:09,780 --> 00:19:12,390
They'll jam a tonne of money in
there, expand capacity.

364
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,630
They're there's just a bit this
morning from Cleveland Cliffs

365
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,180
just bought just trying to buy
Stelco a big Canadian. 100%

366
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:22,090
premium. 100% premium.
Yeah, yeah.

367
00:19:22,100 --> 00:19:25,290
And what they're going to do too
is if you look a little deeper,

368
00:19:25,570 --> 00:19:28,150
they're going to crank up a
tonne of CapEx into the into

369
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,140
that company and they're gonna
just crank up production, right.

370
00:19:31,150 --> 00:19:34,520
So all these steel producers are
cranking up production as we

371
00:19:34,530 --> 00:19:38,580
speak and the demand is
increasing right there in front

372
00:19:38,590 --> 00:19:40,420
of us and nobody's looking for
it.

373
00:19:40,930 --> 00:19:45,200
And it's just sitting right
there for all of us to see and

374
00:19:45,210 --> 00:19:47,860
nobody wants to own the stocks
and nobody wants to finance any

375
00:19:47,870 --> 00:19:50,920
juniors looking for it.
It's exciting and interesting

376
00:19:50,980 --> 00:19:54,220
sector and I love it because
everybody hates it.

377
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:55,540
So that's another reason.
It's.

378
00:19:55,550 --> 00:19:58,320
Like, kind of like Matt Cole,
yeah.

379
00:19:58,470 --> 00:20:01,820
To Warren, we, we kind of, we
touched on the, the met Co

380
00:20:01,830 --> 00:20:05,420
ownership from the corporate
level, from the, the company

381
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:07,940
level and there's, there's kind
of been some sort of changes

382
00:20:08,130 --> 00:20:11,020
over the past few years.
But do you actually see on the

383
00:20:11,090 --> 00:20:13,640
the other side of the table
where you sit with the with the

384
00:20:13,650 --> 00:20:17,730
fundies and the buyer?
Side, any change in ESG policy

385
00:20:17,740 --> 00:20:20,840
or whatever you want to call it
around tweaking the mandates and

386
00:20:20,850 --> 00:20:24,060
allowing them to, you know, say
in five years, actually invest

387
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:26,160
in these sorts of things?
Is that something you can

388
00:20:26,170 --> 00:20:28,460
foresee at all?
Well, right now you're already

389
00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:31,100
seeing was it Black Rock shut
down their ESG fund because it

390
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:34,680
didn't wasn't making any money.
Like I've seen these specialty

391
00:20:34,690 --> 00:20:38,360
funds with do gooder intentions
and they've never really ever

392
00:20:38,370 --> 00:20:40,790
performed.
So it's just a matter of how

393
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,510
long can investors stomach
subpar returns by trying to

394
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:48,780
follow a mandate that doesn't
make any sense.

395
00:20:48,830 --> 00:20:53,790
So it's happening already.
And I think, you know, give it

396
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,240
three years, I don't think we'll
see any ESG fund around because

397
00:20:57,550 --> 00:21:00,020
though people look at the
performance and go, OK, you've

398
00:21:00,030 --> 00:21:03,770
got the cheapest sector of the
market right now is, you know,

399
00:21:03,780 --> 00:21:06,790
oils and metal, metals and base
metal, you know, just basically

400
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,450
resources, the cheapest sector
compared to any of the Texas

401
00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:13,050
Tech stocks, right?
And it's the cheapest sector to

402
00:21:13,060 --> 00:21:14,830
be.
So someday we're going to have a

403
00:21:15,020 --> 00:21:17,750
day in the sun, will make a
tonne of money and the poor SG

404
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,640
guys will be sitting there
missing the whole missing the

405
00:21:20,650 --> 00:21:24,040
whole party, that's for sure.
My favourite, yeah, instance of

406
00:21:24,050 --> 00:21:28,940
kind of like SG Capital that
maybe changes the rules to, to,

407
00:21:29,010 --> 00:21:31,190
to, to, to make it OK to invest
in them.

408
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,360
What might be better cash flow
assets is like the Brookfields

409
00:21:34,370 --> 00:21:37,100
of the world that they raise
this giant energy transition

410
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:39,090
fund.
And I think they tweaked some of

411
00:21:39,100 --> 00:21:42,220
the, some of the rules to allow
them to, to wrap a transition

412
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:44,030
story around an old world dirty
asset.

413
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,700
And I mean, they were a giant,
you know, they nearly nearly

414
00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:49,980
bought Origin energy in
Australia, which is, yeah, big,

415
00:21:50,020 --> 00:21:53,460
big, big, big gas producer here
in, in Australia.

416
00:21:53,470 --> 00:21:55,090
But anyway, like that's, that's
an example.

417
00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:57,790
I think if we tweak the rules
because you need the cash flow

418
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,640
to justify the investment and
you can't get that, you can't

419
00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:03,400
back solve the returns, you
know, building offshore wind

420
00:22:03,410 --> 00:22:07,080
farms or anything like that.
Yeah, well, and that's where I

421
00:22:07,090 --> 00:22:12,150
I, I firmly disagree with what
tech did in with, with getting

422
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:18,690
rid of their coal assets.
Tech is really, you know, you

423
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:20,870
know, it's a real shame to see
these Canadian companies make

424
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,370
such big, big errors and there's
so many opportunities right

425
00:22:25,380 --> 00:22:26,850
there for them.
They could have gone up to

426
00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:30,150
Tumbler Ridge, which is the
other major, which the other

427
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,950
major coal region in Canada.
They could have picked off, you

428
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,370
know, three to four juniors and
picked up monster properties and

429
00:22:38,380 --> 00:22:40,760
put them into production.
They had been cash flowing like

430
00:22:40,770 --> 00:22:45,090
crazy and but you know, they're,
they're of the opinion that, you

431
00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:47,770
know, we'd rather focus on our
crappy copper assets because

432
00:22:47,780 --> 00:22:50,950
they're because they're big
shareholders say we should.

433
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,950
And sometimes you need to tell
your big shoulder shareholders

434
00:22:55,140 --> 00:22:57,720
to go stuff themselves and maybe
buy another company that you're

435
00:22:57,730 --> 00:23:01,430
going to listen to them.
So it's a shame to see that and.

436
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,630
It's funny, right, because
because the part of the

437
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,760
justification for doing this is,
oh, we look at Freeport, we look

438
00:23:06,770 --> 00:23:08,990
at freeports multiple and we
want, we want some of that

439
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,590
multiple.
And but the reality of of a of a

440
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,970
mining company is, is there much
justification for a certain

441
00:23:15,980 --> 00:23:18,540
mining companies trading at a
higher or lower multiple than

442
00:23:18,550 --> 00:23:20,480
another mining company just on
commodity?

443
00:23:20,490 --> 00:23:22,240
Yes, that justifies it off mine
life.

444
00:23:22,250 --> 00:23:24,240
But these are these are these
are finite resources.

445
00:23:24,250 --> 00:23:27,030
It's not like software you have
a growth rate or it's not like

446
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,340
an industrial thing where you
have a mode or anything like

447
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:31,660
that.
It's literally you, you are

448
00:23:31,670 --> 00:23:35,040
entitled to a set of cash flows
over the the the course of your

449
00:23:35,050 --> 00:23:36,900
lifetime.
And you should be trying to

450
00:23:36,970 --> 00:23:40,140
optimise for the cash flows you
get in the door rather than

451
00:23:40,150 --> 00:23:42,360
trying to play financial
gamesmanship of getting a higher

452
00:23:42,370 --> 00:23:44,780
multiple because you're you're
pureplay copper or what not.

453
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,510
Yeah, well, Can you imagine if
tech took all their their

454
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,010
expertise in in met coal in
specifically in British Columbia

455
00:23:52,020 --> 00:23:55,590
in Canada?
Like people sometimes don't know

456
00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:01,000
this, but metallurgical coal
production in British Columbia,

457
00:24:01,010 --> 00:24:04,300
which is a province just West of
Alberta, right in in the West

458
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:09,990
Coast of Canada that met coal
revenue covers a lot of expenses

459
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,250
for the province.
And it's so we're basically

460
00:24:12,260 --> 00:24:14,550
British Columbia is a met coal
province and right next to it is

461
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,190
Alberta.
And there are they're an oil

462
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,290
province and they skip over to
Saskatchewan and they're much

463
00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:22,590
more diversified.
They have they have potash and

464
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,720
uranium and a whole bunch other
commodities.

465
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,450
But you know, British Columbia
is very much a medical province.

466
00:24:29,460 --> 00:24:33,400
And what's interesting is we
have a lot of, you know,

467
00:24:34,380 --> 00:24:37,790
interesting people here who have
no idea that is indeed the case.

468
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,430
But you just have to look at the
financials.

469
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,210
Met coal generates a lot of cash
for it.

470
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,490
And I'd love, I would have loved
to have seen tech step up to the

471
00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:48,500
north and, and where there is
indeed significant

472
00:24:48,510 --> 00:24:50,740
infrastructure already.
And they already had really good

473
00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:52,590
projects.
And it's a shame they even sold

474
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:58,420
their one of their projects to
to Kanuma, which is another,

475
00:24:58,430 --> 00:25:00,350
which is smaller met coal
producer up there.

476
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:03,840
And when they did that, I
realised they really have lost

477
00:25:03,850 --> 00:25:07,820
their way and to focus on these
crappy copper projects they have

478
00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:10,860
is, is not going to make them a
world leader.

479
00:25:10,930 --> 00:25:14,040
And it's a real shame to watch a
company like that shoot

480
00:25:14,050 --> 00:25:16,250
themselves in the foot, frankly.
And especially if it's a

481
00:25:16,260 --> 00:25:19,100
Canadian company that could be a
a world leader and what they do,

482
00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:22,620
but they're not.
Do you think they got rid of the

483
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:25,880
Met Carl to make themselves
palatable to a Rio to get taken

484
00:25:25,890 --> 00:25:27,880
over?
It's all part of a bigger plan.

485
00:25:27,890 --> 00:25:31,650
Or not.
Well I don't think Rio would

486
00:25:31,660 --> 00:25:33,410
have cared if there was a bit of
metal in there.

487
00:25:34,270 --> 00:25:37,020
They just probably lumped in all
their medical together and spun

488
00:25:37,030 --> 00:25:39,050
it out, done something like that
if they wanted.

489
00:25:39,060 --> 00:25:41,320
But I don't think that would
have been unpalatable to real.

490
00:25:41,330 --> 00:25:43,340
I don't think they were setting
themselves up for that.

491
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:45,870
No, no.
But you know, who knows?

492
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,740
You could be wrong.
You know, there are some quite a

493
00:25:48,750 --> 00:25:51,120
number of delusional strategies
from time to time.

494
00:25:51,490 --> 00:25:56,600
But I cannot imagine, I, I can't
imagine being in the room

495
00:25:56,610 --> 00:25:59,930
listening to executives talk
about why they spun off, why,

496
00:25:59,940 --> 00:26:03,520
why they sold their coal
division to Glencore.

497
00:26:03,530 --> 00:26:06,780
But on the other side, more
power to Glencore.

498
00:26:06,790 --> 00:26:11,180
I am so like I'm, I think what
they did, the deal is fantastic

499
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:13,960
and I think they're going to
make an absolute pile of money

500
00:26:14,030 --> 00:26:18,290
over the next coming decades.
You, you touched on all the, the

501
00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:21,600
revenues that come out of BC and
it's a pretty similar scenario

502
00:26:21,650 --> 00:26:25,360
over here in, in Queensland.
And you know what, what

503
00:26:25,370 --> 00:26:27,420
ultimately happened was that
the, the government just jacked

504
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:30,220
up royalties when, when coal
prices got carried away a couple

505
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:32,100
years ago.
What sort of odds do you put to

506
00:26:32,110 --> 00:26:34,520
something like that happening in
in BC?

507
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,570
Yeah, well, what happened over
in your in your area that's that

508
00:26:39,580 --> 00:26:42,130
came that, that sound that was
heard around the world.

509
00:26:42,140 --> 00:26:44,690
That's for sure.
You know, you never know.

510
00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:47,310
We're, we're here in, I'm in
British Columbia at the present

511
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:54,050
time and I split my time between
a few cities in Canada, namely

512
00:26:54,060 --> 00:26:59,050
Toronto and British Columbia.
And so we're, we're coming up to

513
00:26:59,060 --> 00:27:00,750
an election.
So it'll be really, it'll be

514
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,330
interesting to see who ends up
winning that election.

515
00:27:05,340 --> 00:27:07,650
It's a it's a pretty, it'll be a
very, very tight race and

516
00:27:07,660 --> 00:27:10,450
there'll be a lot of drama.
So it'll be very interesting.

517
00:27:10,460 --> 00:27:13,010
And I imagine if the existing
government gets in, it'll be

518
00:27:13,220 --> 00:27:15,840
status quo.
And I think if the if, if

519
00:27:15,850 --> 00:27:17,860
another government comes in,
it'll be status quo.

520
00:27:18,510 --> 00:27:20,820
I don't think they want to kill
the goose that laid the golden

521
00:27:20,830 --> 00:27:24,110
eggs, But you know, it wouldn't
it wouldn't surprise me either

522
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:27,430
that they would.
They would get hard, especially

523
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,770
now that Techno or longer owns
the assets owned by you know,

524
00:27:30,780 --> 00:27:34,530
about big bad foreign company.
Maybe they just, but I don't, I

525
00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:37,290
don't see that happening because
I think they're smart enough to

526
00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:39,670
know that they're quite a number
of projects that could be

527
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,340
brought into production and to
start changing the fiscal terms

528
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:46,490
would really I would imagine in
your region they killed all new

529
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:48,310
investment in in the sector,
right?

530
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,870
BHP certainly no longer
investing in new capital.

531
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,020
Other other companies are being
opportunistic and you know,

532
00:27:56,030 --> 00:27:59,230
acquiring projects, being
divested, but.

533
00:27:59,420 --> 00:28:02,310
Definitely not building any.
Yeah, I mean, well, you saw

534
00:28:02,380 --> 00:28:07,180
Eagle Downs get acquired, she's
a development asset and I, you

535
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:10,560
know, imagine the acquirer wants
to build something bond cocking

536
00:28:10,570 --> 00:28:12,950
cold, tried to bloody ramp up a
couple of mines in Queensland

537
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,230
and fucking failed horribly.
So anyway.

538
00:28:15,670 --> 00:28:19,910
Yeah, yeah, I'm not.
I'm not sure how the the the tax

539
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,920
is structured but it will be
interesting to see what happens.

540
00:28:23,930 --> 00:28:27,280
I, I have people I know they're
calling for $1000 a tonne coal

541
00:28:28,380 --> 00:28:31,350
that could, depending on the,
the tax structure could really,

542
00:28:31,460 --> 00:28:33,010
it could change the economics of
a lot of these.

543
00:28:33,020 --> 00:28:36,760
Projects $1.00 a tonne culture.
Jesus Christ, holy snapping dog

544
00:28:36,770 --> 00:28:38,250
shit.
That'd be my guns and money.

545
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,990
Yeah, no kidding.
Well, as you as you know, it hit

546
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,590
600 not that long ago.
And yeah, you're exactly right.

547
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,330
Most people had factored in.
I know that that colonial had

548
00:28:48,340 --> 00:28:51,690
factored in a long term model
that $180 coal.

549
00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:56,990
So even a 600 hit 600, that was
pretty exciting time.

550
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:02,540
So it's a fascinating,
fascinating market And and you

551
00:29:02,550 --> 00:29:05,670
know, there's going to be a lot
of cool, sorry, a lot of steel

552
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,610
made in the next several decades
especially.

553
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,000
Well, you just watch India grow.
India needs a tonne of steel,

554
00:29:10,010 --> 00:29:12,530
right?
So they'll need a tonne of

555
00:29:12,540 --> 00:29:15,030
cooking coal and they don't have
any in in India, right?

556
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,130
It's they're all pretty much a
thermal, they're thermal coal

557
00:29:17,140 --> 00:29:21,820
country and they need met coal
and they need a big, big amounts

558
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:23,700
in Canada has big, big amounts
for them.

559
00:29:23,710 --> 00:29:26,940
So we'll see what happens.
Yeah, well, big, big amounts of

560
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,600
met Carl means big, big amounts
of CR insurance policies.

561
00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:36,100
Trav, don't you reckon you gotta
protect those met coal mines?

562
00:29:36,510 --> 00:29:38,210
Mate, look at what happened to
Governor.

563
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:41,780
Yeah, yeah.
It's well, but it's not just the

564
00:29:41,790 --> 00:29:45,360
coal mines like Grove Nut, it's
the service providers and the

565
00:29:45,370 --> 00:29:48,990
contractors as well, the guy
that work at those Karl mines

566
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,780
because bloody Carl, look, you
know, burning coal insurance for

567
00:29:52,790 --> 00:29:54,640
a while and it's a tough
landscape.

568
00:29:54,690 --> 00:29:56,850
It's tough.
Imagine if you, yeah, you were

569
00:29:56,860 --> 00:30:00,590
like a a mining contractor.
All of a sudden your services

570
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,670
are not required and you're
you're you're leasing your

571
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,610
equipment, you're on the hook
for some repayments.

572
00:30:04,620 --> 00:30:06,910
You got paid bloody staff
entitlements, you fact.

573
00:30:06,980 --> 00:30:12,000
There might be like it's tough
like you say not as CR insurance

574
00:30:12,010 --> 00:30:14,610
are on the ticket and they're
sorting it out for you.

575
00:30:14,620 --> 00:30:18,310
I'm talking bloody experts in
coal insurance.

576
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,490
If I asked you, who do you know
in coal insurance before CRA?

577
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,870
They're the only names to be
honest.

578
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,520
Who do you know in mining
insurance CRE Yeah, like, but

579
00:30:28,530 --> 00:30:31,330
did you know of anyone before?
That I didn't.

580
00:30:31,380 --> 00:30:34,230
No neither did I.
I never will cause I actually

581
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,280
don't care if there is anyone
else cause it's just sayari

582
00:30:38,290 --> 00:30:40,450
insurance.
They care about if they care

583
00:30:40,460 --> 00:30:42,450
about coal mines, mate, they
care about old mines.

584
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,910
Yeah, yeah.
Coal is Anish.

585
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,570
Mining's Anish.
Everything's Amish for CRE.

586
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,420
Get on him.
I111 of the one of the things

587
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:55,820
we're keen to to talk to you
about Warren was yeah you're

588
00:30:55,830 --> 00:31:00,260
most kind of relevant in recent
views on on both the uranium

589
00:31:00,270 --> 00:31:04,170
market and our favourite uranium
developer the mining next Gen

590
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,030
how have.
You not.

591
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,290
Not that I wouldn't even class
him as developer yet.

592
00:31:10,130 --> 00:31:11,840
Yeah, you need a permit first,
right?

593
00:31:12,170 --> 00:31:14,280
Buddy, with the, the way you
explained it a lot because

594
00:31:14,290 --> 00:31:19,090
you've been in since sort of 15
bucks uranium price saying that,

595
00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:21,900
you know, all these Super Bowls
that have come around now are

596
00:31:21,910 --> 00:31:25,300
like, you know, it's like
rocking up to a party at at

597
00:31:25,310 --> 00:31:29,680
midnight and the night and it
ends at 2:00 and why, why rock

598
00:31:29,690 --> 00:31:31,680
up then?
But the way I've come to peace

599
00:31:31,690 --> 00:31:34,720
with it is that when I ever went
to a party, that's when I did

600
00:31:34,730 --> 00:31:37,560
some of my best work was at
12:00 to 2:00.

601
00:31:37,570 --> 00:31:40,600
That was the time for execution
at a party.

602
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,330
I've heard you get better
looking after 12.

603
00:31:43,340 --> 00:31:46,130
Yeah, everyone does.
Everyone does.

604
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,130
It's magic.
Yeah.

605
00:31:49,140 --> 00:31:52,350
So it's like, and but it's more
like, I know listen to your

606
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,460
potty, you did the other day,
YouTube video you did the other

607
00:31:55,470 --> 00:31:58,150
day and talking to, you know,
the Super Bowls thinking it goes

608
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:03,790
to bloody 200 bucks a pound.
But it's I think and and I don't

609
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,850
know if the I'm sure all the
Super Bowls understand, even if

610
00:32:06,860 --> 00:32:10,070
it did go to 200 bucks
momentarily, how freaking

611
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:15,100
irrelevant that even is because
no one's not every fucking

612
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:17,580
morning company selling it at
200 bucks a pound.

613
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:20,980
And it's just it's essentially a
bit of an irrelevant market that

614
00:32:20,990 --> 00:32:24,340
spot one.
It's more just a guide of

615
00:32:24,350 --> 00:32:27,560
sentiment.
So yeah, I'm like once it gets

616
00:32:27,570 --> 00:32:32,200
to 121 thirty on me out.
But what's today Take Take us

617
00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:38,380
through the thesis, mate.
Well, you know, part of the

618
00:32:38,390 --> 00:32:41,900
reason I think we have a spit of
a Super Bowl culture in in

619
00:32:41,910 --> 00:32:45,800
uranium is because without a
doubt, there are some

620
00:32:45,810 --> 00:32:48,900
significant people in all the
chat rooms and everywhere which

621
00:32:48,910 --> 00:32:51,920
are actually being compensated
by uranium companies.

622
00:32:51,930 --> 00:32:54,300
They're just pound and pound and
pound and pound and bullish,

623
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:57,260
bullish, bullish, bullish.
Not the name names, but I mean,

624
00:32:57,270 --> 00:33:01,210
the guy who has been pumping
fission for 10 years and it's

625
00:33:01,220 --> 00:33:03,280
actually got taken out lower
than it was 10 years ago.

626
00:33:03,290 --> 00:33:05,640
That guy.
Yeah.

627
00:33:05,690 --> 00:33:06,920
Yeah.
Well, we don't know.

628
00:33:06,930 --> 00:33:08,960
I don't know if anybody knows
who he is or who he's

629
00:33:08,970 --> 00:33:11,100
compensated by or if he's
compensated at all.

630
00:33:11,110 --> 00:33:14,540
I don't want to make any.
And yeah, the whole uranium

631
00:33:14,550 --> 00:33:19,450
cycle, I've never, rarely do you
see people as crazy bullish on a

632
00:33:19,460 --> 00:33:21,090
commodity that as you do in
uranium.

633
00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:23,790
And I'm not sure how much is
true and how much is really just

634
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,320
crazy paid individuals that are
being paid by the uranium

635
00:33:28,330 --> 00:33:30,880
companies to pump it up and try
and get retail to buy it.

636
00:33:31,290 --> 00:33:35,270
I did see a high level agreed
back in the mid 90s right with

637
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,970
Bree X when the when that
happened.

638
00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:40,520
But this whole uranium is
probably the closest thing I've

639
00:33:40,530 --> 00:33:47,050
seen to it then, because I have
you guys ever seen any commodity

640
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,870
pumped as much as uranium is
these days?

641
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,870
It's just crazy I find.
But anyways, my my my thesis is

642
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,410
quite a bit different than a lot
of people.

643
00:33:56,420 --> 00:33:59,170
You weren't living in in Perth,
WA in.

644
00:33:59,180 --> 00:34:01,090
Last year's lithium.
Lithium last year.

645
00:34:01,100 --> 00:34:03,850
Fuck me dead. 4 lithium yeah,
yeah, yeah.

646
00:34:03,940 --> 00:34:04,700
Bloody mad.
Yeah.

647
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:09,540
So anyways, as you mean, Oh my,
my claim to fame in the Iranian

648
00:34:09,550 --> 00:34:13,090
market, why anybody would even
want to give two cents two

649
00:34:13,100 --> 00:34:16,400
seconds to listen to my views as
I was bullish and uranium back

650
00:34:16,409 --> 00:34:20,469
when it was 17 bucks and I made
90 million bucks trading next

651
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,230
Gen and I invested in next year
when nobody else would.

652
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,770
And I did in our model when in
the early days before the

653
00:34:27,780 --> 00:34:32,080
official estimate came out, my
my model was exactly bang on and

654
00:34:32,090 --> 00:34:35,070
I released it three months
before the official one came

655
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,310
out.
And everybody, all the analysts

656
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,520
were against me.
All the investors are against

657
00:34:40,530 --> 00:34:43,280
me.
The price was crap.

658
00:34:43,469 --> 00:34:48,320
People thought it was crazy and
I did really well and I was one

659
00:34:48,330 --> 00:34:49,980
point the largest shareholder in
next Gen.

660
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,199
So here we are today.
Now that next, now that uranium

661
00:34:54,210 --> 00:35:00,850
has gone up five times with the
help of significant speculative

662
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,770
possibly market manipulation
action in the very narrow spot

663
00:35:04,780 --> 00:35:06,990
market of the entire uranium
market.

664
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,270
I assumed and you know, maybe
100 and 2000 and 30,000,000 lbs

665
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,310
been taken out of the market the
last few years.

666
00:35:14,060 --> 00:35:17,490
And as I when I want to take the
piss out of the Super Bowls, I

667
00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:20,990
go guys, come on, you've yanked
£130 million out of the market

668
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,270
and the the spot market
nonetheless, and you've only

669
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,110
been able to get the stock to 85
bucks.

670
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:31,290
Are you kidding me?
So anyway, so that's, that's

671
00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:34,120
where I, that's one of one of my
thoughts.

672
00:35:34,130 --> 00:35:36,800
There is, despite all this
market manipulation and the

673
00:35:36,810 --> 00:35:40,520
hedge funds buying, buying
uranium, they they can't seem to

674
00:35:40,530 --> 00:35:43,600
get it anywhere near where it
was before.

675
00:35:43,610 --> 00:35:47,180
And then they get the bulls
saying oh, $200.00 uranium.

676
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:49,610
You take the 138, which is the
high the last cycle and

677
00:35:49,620 --> 00:35:51,540
inflation adjusted, you get the
200 bucks.

678
00:35:51,550 --> 00:35:54,810
I said, well, I used to know the
number right off the top of my

679
00:35:54,820 --> 00:35:56,690
head.
But if you look at the small

680
00:35:56,700 --> 00:36:01,750
amount of uranium that traded at
1:38 at the very, very peak and

681
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,720
then you want inflation adjust
that are you, are you absolutely

682
00:36:04,730 --> 00:36:07,780
crazy?
And then you know, I, I know

683
00:36:07,790 --> 00:36:12,540
that the supply side reasonably
well because I've been it was

684
00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:15,390
involved in the last cycle.
I was involved in extract

685
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,560
uranium.
We sold that the Husab deposit

686
00:36:17,570 --> 00:36:21,450
to the Chinese and I was
involved in the early days of

687
00:36:21,460 --> 00:36:26,800
both Kovacs and Global Uranium
and and some others in the last

688
00:36:26,810 --> 00:36:28,630
cycle.
So I've been been around the

689
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:34,170
block a little bit here.
And So what what I'm seeing

690
00:36:34,180 --> 00:36:39,470
right now is significant
speculator interest in spot

691
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,730
uranium, which is a very small
in the liquid part of the

692
00:36:41,740 --> 00:36:43,750
uranium market.
They jammed the price up to 180

693
00:36:43,820 --> 00:36:46,390
to 85.
Every project that I know of in

694
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,460
the world is economic at 85,
except for these projects where

695
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:52,730
these guys have the science to
take it out of the sea water.

696
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,780
So there's a lot of uranium
coming at us because there's a

697
00:36:57,790 --> 00:37:00,180
lot of uranium out there.
A lot of uranium was found last

698
00:37:00,190 --> 00:37:02,360
cycle, right?
And then the other thing is so

699
00:37:02,370 --> 00:37:06,100
very important on the supply
side is I believe we're going to

700
00:37:06,110 --> 00:37:10,490
get Sweden lifting the
moratorium on uranium mining.

701
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,910
And of course, Australia.
I'm not sure where you guys are

702
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,270
your thought process on or not,
but it would make sense at some

703
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,050
point if you, if you want to get
with the programme globally with

704
00:37:20,060 --> 00:37:23,550
the non CO2 generating base flow
that Australia, which has some

705
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,870
of the biggest, if not the
biggest resources in the world

706
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,050
of uranium would lift the
moratorium there.

707
00:37:28,060 --> 00:37:31,400
And then there's also countries
in South America, like Brazil's

708
00:37:31,410 --> 00:37:34,710
a monster, monster country with
lots of uranium.

709
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:37,270
So there's lots and lots of
uranium around the world.

710
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,360
And at 85 bucks, they're going
to make lots of money.

711
00:37:39,370 --> 00:37:42,490
So what we have here the bulls
are are talking about this

712
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:45,150
short, there's going to be a
short term spike in uranium

713
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:50,300
because you know, because money
hasn't been spent on mines.

714
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:52,820
It's going to be a while before
next Gen gets into production.

715
00:37:52,890 --> 00:37:56,320
And during this window, there's
going to be a big, big shortage

716
00:37:56,330 --> 00:38:00,360
of uranium is going to spike it.
And, and I go, OK, well, it's

717
00:38:00,370 --> 00:38:02,960
really just a supply side issue
because on the demand side, you

718
00:38:02,970 --> 00:38:05,570
know, they're not, they're not
building reactors super fast.

719
00:38:05,780 --> 00:38:10,870
And and of that 450 existing
reactors are 440, whatever

720
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,710
number you want to use.
A lot of those reactors are old

721
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:16,490
and they'll eventually be
decommissioned.

722
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:20,010
I know a number of them been
extended their lives, but you

723
00:38:20,020 --> 00:38:23,850
know, so I don't see any more
than low single digit growth in

724
00:38:23,860 --> 00:38:27,180
demand for uranium.
I see every project I know

725
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:30,690
globally is economic at 85.
So there's this window.

726
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:34,460
Here is whether or not the
speculators could jam the price

727
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:38,150
of uranium up to make some
money.

728
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,950
And you know, they've already
thrown billions and billions of

729
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,630
dollars at the spot market
through through spot, you know,

730
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:48,070
yellow cake spots what 865 and
yellow cakes still around 2020,

731
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:49,660
£5,000,000.
And then you got all the

732
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:52,990
speculators who lodged all the
uranium at Comber Dime.

733
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,890
And and if I get into a
conversation with somebody say,

734
00:38:55,900 --> 00:38:57,860
well, you know, there's going to
be a big shortage of uranium and

735
00:38:57,870 --> 00:39:01,640
this is not the other thing.
I go well, you know, one stroke

736
00:39:01,650 --> 00:39:04,400
of a pen banning, you know,
private ownership of uranium,

737
00:39:04,410 --> 00:39:06,960
which I think is frankly, it's
ridiculous that people could

738
00:39:06,970 --> 00:39:12,540
privately own uranium anyways
would would make a lot of

739
00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:15,310
uranium come to market pretty
darn quickly.

740
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:20,690
So I, I, I'm happy to to leave
the uranium market.

741
00:39:20,980 --> 00:39:23,750
I only have one one really
significant position in it.

742
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,630
But you know, the uranium's got
a five times I made 90 million

743
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,650
bucks on next Gen.
I'm out of next Gen now.

744
00:39:29,020 --> 00:39:31,500
I have one last uranium
investment, but I'm I'm quite

745
00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:36,810
content to to ride the ride that
one for the next little while.

746
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,750
And but you know, I'm not a I'm
not a Super Bowl, that's for

747
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,070
sure.
Before we.

748
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,270
Yeah, before we get into next
Gen talking about like, oh,

749
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,650
Ding, Ding, Ding for me, I do
hold spot.

750
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,810
But it like say the DOE did do
that stroke of a pen, as you

751
00:39:52,820 --> 00:39:56,130
said and said, right.
You force majeure, you have to

752
00:39:56,140 --> 00:40:00,810
sell all your bloody uranium,
you're 65,000,000 uranium pounds

753
00:40:00,820 --> 00:40:03,060
into the market and did the same
with yellow coke.

754
00:40:03,070 --> 00:40:05,910
How how would how would that
happen?

755
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,780
Like would they would they have
to sell it at a premium or would

756
00:40:09,790 --> 00:40:12,830
they be forced to sell it at the
prevailing spot price?

757
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,350
How?
How would that actually work?

758
00:40:15,870 --> 00:40:17,240
No, I think we're a ways away
from that.

759
00:40:17,250 --> 00:40:21,180
So it's just purely speculation.
The precedence that has been

760
00:40:21,190 --> 00:40:24,040
set, you know, with a couple
things in in, you know,

761
00:40:24,050 --> 00:40:27,440
obviously private ownership of
gold was banned.

762
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:33,140
I think it was just in around
getting off the was it 19 in the

763
00:40:33,150 --> 00:40:38,080
1920s Nineteen 30s that was
banned and then you know other

764
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:41,510
they have a habit of banning
things when anything's in in

765
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:47,100
short shorts supply or it meets
them meets their desire

766
00:40:47,450 --> 00:40:50,910
politically.
For instance, I remember I hit I

767
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,850
took when I was short Morgan
Stanley and U.S. government you

768
00:40:54,860 --> 00:40:57,370
you'd never think this would
ever happen in the the the good

769
00:40:57,380 --> 00:41:00,850
USA, but during 08 they they
banned the selling of short

770
00:41:00,860 --> 00:41:04,020
selling of financials and I was
short Morgan Stanley.

771
00:41:04,030 --> 00:41:07,740
I thought they were going
bankrupt and boom, the ban

772
00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:10,560
happened.
I had to cover and I got jammed.

773
00:41:10,610 --> 00:41:14,070
And the same thing happened with
all these these guys who were

774
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:19,640
long uranium.
And if I was, you know, at the

775
00:41:19,650 --> 00:41:26,000
Department of Energy and I had
like 55 nuclear power utilities

776
00:41:26,010 --> 00:41:27,830
sitting in front of me and my
desk, and they're all

777
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,160
complaining about uranium being
squeezed by a bunch of

778
00:41:31,170 --> 00:41:34,410
speculators.
And, you know, one stroke of a

779
00:41:34,420 --> 00:41:36,030
pen could fix that problem
pretty quick.

780
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,070
And then before you know it,
next Gen will be on stream.

781
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,930
Plus by that point there also be
significant, there's significant

782
00:41:42,940 --> 00:41:47,100
expansion going on at all the
major uranium mines that who can

783
00:41:47,110 --> 00:41:49,170
expand.
They'd be stupid not to expand

784
00:41:49,180 --> 00:41:52,870
here at this this level.
So anyways, I'm not calling the

785
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,800
death knell for it for for
uranium, but I do know long

786
00:41:55,810 --> 00:41:58,720
term, there's no way long term
uranium is going to be 85 bucks

787
00:41:58,730 --> 00:42:01,110
a pound, right?
It's, it's going to be much

788
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:02,720
lower than that.
There's just too much uranium

789
00:42:02,730 --> 00:42:05,660
out there and there's too many
guys can make money at 85 bucks.

790
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:09,710
So I'm not, I'm not a Super Bowl
and I'm optimistic.

791
00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:14,310
I'm a fan of nuclear energy.
And, you know, we'll, we'll see

792
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:15,820
what happens.
I think so.

793
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,290
Spot and yellow cake.
Do you do you view them as a a

794
00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:23,700
speculator like like the the
pure ammonium and nitrite

795
00:42:23,710 --> 00:42:26,270
manipulate the market by holding
bounds?

796
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,020
What do you think that role is?
Yeah, well, that's what happened

797
00:42:30,030 --> 00:42:31,760
last time, right?
The last Michael, I think there

798
00:42:31,770 --> 00:42:35,620
was significant manipulation
going on and early this cycle,

799
00:42:35,630 --> 00:42:38,320
back when it was 17 bucks.
I was saying if I was a hedge

800
00:42:38,330 --> 00:42:41,190
fund with 10s of billions of
dollars, what I would do is go

801
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,560
out and buy while the major
uranium players because that a

802
00:42:45,570 --> 00:42:49,420
prom chemical and next Gen and
possibly some some more juniors.

803
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:51,060
And then they'd start
manipulating the price of

804
00:42:51,070 --> 00:42:53,660
uranium up and they do it
through the spot market.

805
00:42:54,540 --> 00:42:58,060
And so there you go.
And then, you know, the other

806
00:42:58,070 --> 00:43:02,340
risk the uranium market here too
is I don't know how many 10s of

807
00:43:02,350 --> 00:43:07,200
millions of pounds of uranium
have been picked up by by

808
00:43:07,210 --> 00:43:09,750
speculators.
And the speculators may or may

809
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,160
not have had a good run at it.
If they've gone, they bought it

810
00:43:12,170 --> 00:43:15,220
at 40 or 50 and now at 85, maybe
they say, listen, we're ready to

811
00:43:15,230 --> 00:43:17,910
move on to another one.
So you'll see 10s of millions of

812
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,400
pounds coming out of combine
without even like I know, I know

813
00:43:21,490 --> 00:43:25,450
Sprout Sprout your AIM trust
cannot has no mandate to sell,

814
00:43:26,180 --> 00:43:31,850
but certainly the the hedge fund
speculators can indeed sell the

815
00:43:31,860 --> 00:43:34,180
spot uranium.
They picked up a lower levels

816
00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:38,690
and and I don't know how many
10s of millions of pounds one.

817
00:43:38,940 --> 00:43:43,000
The only indication you get here
is a M cap not a super monster

818
00:43:43,010 --> 00:43:47,370
hedge fund by any means out of
Canada sold £2.7 million to next

819
00:43:47,380 --> 00:43:51,140
Gen right.
So if this, if that fund had

820
00:43:51,150 --> 00:43:54,100
£2.7 million, you got to think
that some of the big guys over

821
00:43:54,110 --> 00:43:57,320
the US would have quite a bit
more.

822
00:43:57,370 --> 00:44:01,220
So I don't know what that number
is, but anyways, I think there's

823
00:44:01,230 --> 00:44:07,260
enough, there are enough warning
signs here that I'm not a Super

824
00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:07,670
Bowl.
That's.

825
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,820
For sure.
So with with next Gen

826
00:44:09,830 --> 00:44:13,660
considering you, you did the
you'd say you did the one of the

827
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:16,600
first models for it.
You're like, when on the journey

828
00:44:16,610 --> 00:44:20,990
with them, how do you now look
back and look what's happened in

829
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,660
terms of how that business has
been run?

830
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:27,810
Yeah.
Yeah.

831
00:44:27,860 --> 00:44:30,460
Well, my I have a couple of
rules of thumb in my in the

832
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:36,220
business.
One is UMM is of course juniors

833
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:37,810
don't build tier one minds
right?

834
00:44:38,020 --> 00:44:41,570
And I've only seen it happen
once in my career that I could

835
00:44:41,580 --> 00:44:43,660
think of.
You guys may have recall an

836
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:48,930
example or two but like if
you've got a good project you

837
00:44:48,940 --> 00:44:51,930
are not allowed to build it as a
junior and you shouldn't build

838
00:44:51,940 --> 00:44:53,570
it as a junior and you should be
bought out.

839
00:44:53,620 --> 00:44:58,140
So the biggest question I have
is why hasn't next Gen been

840
00:44:58,150 --> 00:45:01,520
bought?
And people are saying, well,

841
00:45:01,530 --> 00:45:03,220
we're not going to get until you
get the permits.

842
00:45:03,230 --> 00:45:07,000
And I said, well, majors aren't
afraid of permitting in the

843
00:45:07,010 --> 00:45:09,060
number one mining jurisdiction
in the world, which is

844
00:45:09,070 --> 00:45:12,070
Saskatchewan, right?
That's not a it's not something

845
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,280
that ever really ever comes up
because it's so easily

846
00:45:15,290 --> 00:45:16,740
permitted.
So I do not know.

847
00:45:16,750 --> 00:45:19,600
I have my some some some
thoughts as to why it hasn't

848
00:45:19,610 --> 00:45:24,280
sold but next Gen hasn't sold
and it should have been sold.

849
00:45:25,070 --> 00:45:28,580
Umm.
And then the most disconcerting

850
00:45:28,590 --> 00:45:30,770
thing I've got is another rule
of thumb I have, which is the

851
00:45:30,780 --> 00:45:35,470
iceberg theory, right?
Which is, umm, you look at

852
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:40,470
what's going on publicly, namely
some of their extravagant

853
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,620
spending, and we're talking a
company that doesn't even got a

854
00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:47,550
permit yet, let alone starting
to build a mine, let alone cash

855
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,970
flow generating in production.
So I remember the first time

856
00:45:50,980 --> 00:45:54,400
you're probably aware that Next
Gen sponsoring both an NHL

857
00:45:54,410 --> 00:45:59,440
hockey team and a Formula One.
And and the watch.

858
00:45:59,450 --> 00:46:02,020
I remember seeing that.
I remember watching a Vancouver

859
00:46:02,030 --> 00:46:04,600
Canucks hockey game once and I
saw next Gen on the side of the

860
00:46:04,610 --> 00:46:08,710
helmet and I go oh shit the next
Gen hearing aid company must be

861
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:11,770
doing really really well to
actually sponsor the Canucks.

862
00:46:11,820 --> 00:46:16,340
I never thought in a million
years that a commodity producer

863
00:46:16,350 --> 00:46:19,150
that produces 1 commodity, that
where you know, all the stupid

864
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,740
buyers that you somehow
sponsoring the Canucks for

865
00:46:22,750 --> 00:46:26,730
3,000,000 bucks a year is going
to help you in any way.

866
00:46:27,340 --> 00:46:29,360
But then there's stories about,
you know, what's going to help

867
00:46:29,370 --> 00:46:32,450
with the Indigenous relations
and going to like we're talking

868
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,430
Saskatchewan is like a couple of
provinces over and they don't

869
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,210
have an NHL hockey team.
I thought what they did by

870
00:46:38,220 --> 00:46:40,730
sponsoring the Saskatchewan
Roughriders football team was a

871
00:46:40,740 --> 00:46:43,730
stroke of genius.
So I said that was the first

872
00:46:43,740 --> 00:46:46,210
sign I was getting that they're
getting off track.

873
00:46:47,250 --> 00:46:51,040
Then the Formula One happened
and that's roughly, I'm not sure

874
00:46:51,050 --> 00:46:54,160
I've heard the numbers bantered
around around 7 million per year

875
00:46:54,170 --> 00:46:57,560
for that.
Not sure if it's 7,000,000

876
00:46:57,630 --> 00:47:00,960
Canadian or US, but let's say
it's 7,000,000 Canadian.

877
00:47:00,970 --> 00:47:04,660
Well you combine that with and
like try and justify a Formula

878
00:47:04,670 --> 00:47:07,760
One right?
Like Formula One for a single

879
00:47:07,770 --> 00:47:10,820
project, commodity producing
that's not even in production,

880
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:13,520
doesn't even have permits, is
sponsoring a Formula One team.

881
00:47:13,590 --> 00:47:17,220
Are you fucking kidding me?
Like so that's 10 million bucks

882
00:47:17,230 --> 00:47:20,470
a year additional overhead for a
non revenue producing company.

883
00:47:20,510 --> 00:47:23,320
Company that hasn't even started
building their stupid mind yet.

884
00:47:23,650 --> 00:47:27,430
And you outside the sponsorships
prevalent on an F1 far either

885
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,770
it's a tiny fucking logo at the
at the front.

886
00:47:29,780 --> 00:47:31,880
You wouldn't even know.
The only reason we know is

887
00:47:31,890 --> 00:47:36,200
because it's been so publicly
portrayed about our stupid it is

888
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:37,870
it?
It's not because we've seen it

889
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,170
on the Formula One.
Yeah, yeah.

890
00:47:40,180 --> 00:47:44,630
So then they went and pulled
this deal by buying all this

891
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,570
spot uranium from M Cap and I'm
just going Oh my God, what is

892
00:47:48,580 --> 00:47:49,830
going on here?
So.

893
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,530
Stride after thy did an equity.
Rise dies after they did an

894
00:47:53,540 --> 00:47:55,510
equity.
Why rise in Australia?

895
00:47:55,620 --> 00:47:57,910
Which are?
And then it went down and it

896
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,600
absolutely pissed off every
insto that tipped into that over

897
00:48:01,610 --> 00:48:05,590
here.
So you're exactly right.

898
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,560
And so that, you know, if you
look, if you look at those

899
00:48:08,570 --> 00:48:12,160
numbers, that works out to just
the interest alone.

900
00:48:12,170 --> 00:48:14,740
And sure, they could pay some of
it in stock, but you know, all

901
00:48:14,750 --> 00:48:19,210
right, they're looking at $31
million incremental interest

902
00:48:19,220 --> 00:48:25,330
cost per year Canadian to buy
that to, to, to carry that 250

903
00:48:25,340 --> 00:48:29,480
million U.S. debt and 9% works
out to 31 million Canadian.

904
00:48:30,550 --> 00:48:37,410
So if you tack on the hockey
team, the Formula One, and this

905
00:48:37,620 --> 00:48:45,060
friggin as if they need more
debt, uh, that's like 100.

906
00:48:45,070 --> 00:48:48,950
And like, if you divide it by
250, you know, say 250 days a

907
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:54,900
year, working days a year,
that's $167,000 of expenses per

908
00:48:54,910 --> 00:48:56,460
day.
Jesus.

909
00:48:57,370 --> 00:49:00,900
Like, and people are then then
if you actually take a look at

910
00:49:00,910 --> 00:49:04,980
their expenses and divided by
the number like the last quarter

911
00:49:04,990 --> 00:49:09,270
and divided by the number of
days in the quarter, like, like

912
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,230
holy Jesus, you compare that
you, you look at the incremental

913
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:14,870
cost.
So they're already rather large

914
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:20,940
overhead and you just go, these
guys are firmly off, off, off,

915
00:49:21,010 --> 00:49:24,280
off the correct path.
My favourite then I spent spent

916
00:49:24,290 --> 00:49:26,420
half a day looking at their
financial statements over

917
00:49:26,430 --> 00:49:29,980
history once and mate, I
couldn't believe for the longest

918
00:49:29,990 --> 00:49:33,260
period of time they've taken a
good chunk of their corporate

919
00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:36,680
overhead expenses and
capitalised it as expiration

920
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:40,660
like what?
And it continued that trend.

921
00:49:40,670 --> 00:49:43,700
It was sorry if stock employee
stock compensation they've been

922
00:49:43,710 --> 00:49:45,590
capitalised that as exploration
expenditure.

923
00:49:45,630 --> 00:49:48,130
I mean, yeah, there's of course
it's the stock compensation to

924
00:49:48,140 --> 00:49:49,980
employees which is being
completely.

925
00:49:50,030 --> 00:49:51,760
Yeah.
So then you take a look at.

926
00:49:52,310 --> 00:49:54,380
Then you take a look at
directors compensation,

927
00:49:54,390 --> 00:49:56,360
executive compensation, the
options plan.

928
00:49:56,370 --> 00:49:59,880
I remember years and years ago
they pushed saying like in

929
00:49:59,890 --> 00:50:03,320
Canada the standard is 10% of
your float could be issued as

930
00:50:03,330 --> 00:50:05,940
options.
And I remember next Gen had some

931
00:50:05,950 --> 00:50:09,130
reasons to say, OK, well let's
let's take it to 20.

932
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,340
So this is like without
precedence from what I could

933
00:50:11,350 --> 00:50:14,870
tell him from in my experience.
I'm not sure if that's still the

934
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,150
case, but there is a sign early
on that they were going to be

935
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,680
pigs on the options, right?
So then you look at 2.

936
00:50:23,690 --> 00:50:27,020
The other concerning thing too
is just take the number of years

937
00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:29,870
they've been in existence and
divide it by the number of CFO's

938
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,820
they've had, right?
And that number is not a pretty

939
00:50:32,830 --> 00:50:35,870
one, so.
Look at the currency.

940
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:37,440
You're right.
He's got no fucking project

941
00:50:37,450 --> 00:50:39,600
finance experience.
He's got an account like

942
00:50:39,610 --> 00:50:43,550
literally like he's he's, he's
an, an accountant kind of guy

943
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,830
who's just like been there for
years, but zero project finance

944
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:48,700
experience.
And you're supposed to like

945
00:50:48,750 --> 00:50:51,500
coordinate project finance for
the world's best undeveloped

946
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:53,290
project.
What are you fucking doing?

947
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:56,460
Yeah, yeah.
And then then I hear like this.

948
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:59,740
Anything I've ever told you here
is, you know, you could verify

949
00:50:59,870 --> 00:51:03,020
publicly except for two things,
which was the Canucks

950
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:05,180
sponsorship.
But I have enough friends in

951
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:08,020
Vancouver who know how much
Canuck sponsorship costs and

952
00:51:08,170 --> 00:51:10,100
Formula One.
I have some friends in F1.

953
00:51:10,110 --> 00:51:11,980
So I kind of, I'm winging those
numbers.

954
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:14,940
But everything else is just go
and figure it out yourselves.

955
00:51:14,950 --> 00:51:20,810
And so my iceberg model, I'm not
sure if iceberg model is, is, is

956
00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:23,550
prevalent in Australia, but
basically, you know, one ninth

957
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,310
or one seventh of the iceberg is
poking above the surface, but

958
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,090
the real shit is under the
water.

959
00:51:28,470 --> 00:51:32,670
So that's the question right is
how much like if this stuff is

960
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,680
public and any anybody could
find it easily, if this is shit

961
00:51:36,690 --> 00:51:41,300
that's going on in the public
domain, what's going on in the

962
00:51:41,310 --> 00:51:44,910
non public domain?
So I guess you just take it

963
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,050
right from they're definitely
off course.

964
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,600
Um, I don't think Junior should
be building mines.

965
00:51:52,790 --> 00:51:55,720
And the question then is why
aren't haven't they been sold?

966
00:51:56,540 --> 00:51:59,350
And then, you know, you look at
some of the and then the other

967
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,050
warning sign they always get to
is these weird metrics they're

968
00:52:02,060 --> 00:52:03,670
using.
You're saying our expenses as a

969
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,260
percentage of our market cap.
And I'm going, who else in the

970
00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:10,030
world uses that?
And what was the other?

971
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:11,560
There was a real other nutty
one.

972
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,310
Oh yeah, there's one.
Pound of uranium discovered.

973
00:52:15,450 --> 00:52:19,870
That was it.
Yeah, like my favourite one

974
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,420
recently is look at our cash
plus uranium.

975
00:52:24,110 --> 00:52:27,200
What are you adding uranium to
your cash for?

976
00:52:27,570 --> 00:52:30,620
Like it's just like to show
their level, like liquidity and

977
00:52:30,630 --> 00:52:34,360
going whole manner.
You guys getting off track

978
00:52:34,370 --> 00:52:36,830
pretty fast.
So and you know, is the board.

979
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,820
The board should be ashamed of
themselves and they should be

980
00:52:39,870 --> 00:52:42,840
raining, raining a lot of things
in to stop the stupidity from

981
00:52:42,850 --> 00:52:44,780
happening.
Because it's kind of like, you

982
00:52:44,790 --> 00:52:48,960
know, you're given the a golden
goose, but not necessarily a

983
00:52:48,970 --> 00:52:51,090
golden goose or even a golden
Gosling, right?

984
00:52:51,100 --> 00:52:53,630
And you got to nurture it and
grow it to the golden goose.

985
00:52:55,060 --> 00:52:58,410
But if you're milking it, the
little gold, the gold causing so

986
00:52:58,420 --> 00:53:02,310
much and so badly right out of
the gate, it's it's going to,

987
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,450
it's not going to be a good long
term situation.

988
00:53:05,460 --> 00:53:10,500
And I think, you know, it's,
it's not they're they're not

989
00:53:10,510 --> 00:53:13,240
doing the right things.
And nobody's saying no to to Lee

990
00:53:13,250 --> 00:53:16,450
and the management team on all
this overhead and spending and

991
00:53:16,460 --> 00:53:18,230
compensation.
And the reason they're not is

992
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:22,200
just look at the director
compensation, like directors are

993
00:53:22,210 --> 00:53:25,240
making tonnes and tonnes of
money, so why would they ever

994
00:53:25,250 --> 00:53:28,020
want to ruin the party?
And so when somebody wants a

995
00:53:28,030 --> 00:53:30,320
Formula One sponsorship, yeah,
sure, why not?

996
00:53:30,330 --> 00:53:32,440
You know, we got lots of money.
We have the, we're starting to

997
00:53:32,450 --> 00:53:34,320
believe our own bullshit that we
got the best project in the

998
00:53:34,330 --> 00:53:35,560
world and all that sort of
stuff.

999
00:53:35,570 --> 00:53:41,130
And and then, then you have
management talking about we're

1000
00:53:41,140 --> 00:53:46,900
gonna be a $30 billion company.
And I said, well, how does that

1001
00:53:46,910 --> 00:53:51,940
math work?
Like, Oh man, so I don't agree

1002
00:53:51,950 --> 00:53:55,830
with that nap, but there, you
know, and The thing is right now

1003
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,690
is it's kind of good times for
next Gen because when you if you

1004
00:53:59,700 --> 00:54:03,510
want to be a speculator and play
the uranium market, you want to

1005
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,530
play Kazatomprom, Chemico and
next Gen is a big liquid players

1006
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,080
and a lot of people won't pay
play because out of prom because

1007
00:54:10,090 --> 00:54:11,370
there's you know where it's
located.

1008
00:54:11,380 --> 00:54:14,100
So you're playing two players,
you're playing next Gen and

1009
00:54:14,110 --> 00:54:17,610
chemical.
And those people, if they're

1010
00:54:17,620 --> 00:54:21,460
just playing it for a year or
two or just for whatever as a

1011
00:54:21,470 --> 00:54:27,760
trade, you know, they're,
they're, they probably don't

1012
00:54:27,770 --> 00:54:30,310
really care what's going on.
They don't care if there's like

1013
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,330
10 Formula One teams being
sponsored and they're in it for

1014
00:54:33,340 --> 00:54:36,200
a shorter period of time.
So there, there will be a day of

1015
00:54:36,210 --> 00:54:39,940
reckoning for next Gen when
somebody actually is a

1016
00:54:39,950 --> 00:54:43,670
shareholder actually cares.
I know, I I don't know why Lee

1017
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:47,610
Keishing left.
I imagine knowing a little bit

1018
00:54:47,620 --> 00:54:49,910
about him, he's kind of like the
Warren Buffett type.

1019
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,630
He doesn't like excessive like
I.

1020
00:54:53,930 --> 00:54:58,160
The largest shareholder now
Warren is L1 Capital, which is

1021
00:54:58,530 --> 00:55:02,060
like a, you know, pretty,
pretty, pretty great returns,

1022
00:55:02,130 --> 00:55:06,380
you know, activist hedge fund
here in, in Australia activist.

1023
00:55:07,970 --> 00:55:09,460
But there's enough to be active
about.

1024
00:55:09,470 --> 00:55:14,150
But yeah, you guys thing I think
would be not exactly super happy

1025
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,060
with some of the stuff going on
here right today.

1026
00:55:17,050 --> 00:55:19,300
And we'll see.
I think the day of reckoning

1027
00:55:19,310 --> 00:55:25,040
comes where somebody will have
to to give them a bit of a wake

1028
00:55:25,050 --> 00:55:27,100
up call if they don't give
themselves a wake up call.

1029
00:55:27,110 --> 00:55:30,400
So it's a shame to see that
because I've known Lee since the

1030
00:55:30,410 --> 00:55:33,060
beginning and he was a good,
decent guy and working hard,

1031
00:55:33,070 --> 00:55:37,000
watching the pennies.
And then then over time, you

1032
00:55:37,010 --> 00:55:39,240
know, you kind of you have the
right road and the wrong road

1033
00:55:39,250 --> 00:55:43,430
and they're kind of going the
they're they're, they're missing

1034
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,590
it because, you know, let's say
they're actually going to build

1035
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,270
this thing and they're not going
to get taken out.

1036
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:53,000
And it's not an easy task to
build a mine.

1037
00:55:53,250 --> 00:55:56,980
And juniors generally don't make
Tier 1 build tier one minds.

1038
00:55:56,990 --> 00:56:00,770
The only one I'm aware of is
Cisco and I think, you know, I,

1039
00:56:00,780 --> 00:56:03,440
I haven't spoken with John or
Sean about it, but I would think

1040
00:56:03,450 --> 00:56:06,700
they would have rather sold
prior to building the mine and

1041
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:09,180
not spent wanting to waste five
years of their lives building a

1042
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:13,150
mine.
But let's say Lee is actually

1043
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:14,460
going to be building a mine
here.

1044
00:56:14,470 --> 00:56:18,080
You would want to be 100%
focused on building the mine,

1045
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:22,080
not speculating on the price of
uranium through, you know, I, I

1046
00:56:22,090 --> 00:56:25,380
can't see where they could
justify buying, you know, £2.7

1047
00:56:25,390 --> 00:56:28,680
million uranium.
It doesn't move the needle on

1048
00:56:28,690 --> 00:56:30,580
the amount of production they're
going to have when they

1049
00:56:30,590 --> 00:56:33,740
eventually get into production.
So I don't, I have no idea why

1050
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:36,950
the I've heard explanations from
people as to why they did that

1051
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:38,680
and they still can't figure it
out.

1052
00:56:38,780 --> 00:56:41,250
They can't figure out the
Formula One or the Canucks.

1053
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:45,260
So you got to get this is
they're in serious business

1054
00:56:45,270 --> 00:56:47,790
here, man, because we've got a,
they've got to build a mine.

1055
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:50,570
And when you're building the
mind, you're gonna be focused on

1056
00:56:50,580 --> 00:56:53,320
building that mind.
I personally would have sold it

1057
00:56:53,330 --> 00:56:54,660
before.
I'd have to get stuck building

1058
00:56:54,670 --> 00:56:55,660
the mind.
But they're going to build the

1059
00:56:55,670 --> 00:56:57,060
mind.
They're building a uranium mine.

1060
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,780
You know, it's going to be a a
significant world class uranium

1061
00:57:02,790 --> 00:57:03,810
mine.
You've got to build it.

1062
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,290
And you know, they're they're
going to be hiccups along the

1063
00:57:06,300 --> 00:57:08,410
way.
And I've watched the Cisco, the

1064
00:57:08,420 --> 00:57:10,630
only other junior I know that's
built the world class mine and

1065
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,090
they had a big plant fire burned
up a bunch of stuff.

1066
00:57:13,100 --> 00:57:16,330
And building a mind is not an
easy thing to do, especially

1067
00:57:16,340 --> 00:57:17,660
when you're dealing with the
added.

1068
00:57:18,210 --> 00:57:20,720
Like for instance, if you're
building uranium I which would

1069
00:57:20,730 --> 00:57:23,660
rather build it an open pit low
grade uranium miner underground

1070
00:57:23,670 --> 00:57:27,070
high grade, right.
And the whole issues with gamma

1071
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,910
radiation when you're
underground with high grade

1072
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,440
uranium, there's going to be a
lot of issues to deal with and a

1073
00:57:32,450 --> 00:57:34,750
lot of challenges over the years
to get that thing into

1074
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,640
production.
So I, I can't believe they're,

1075
00:57:37,650 --> 00:57:41,000
they're so distracted with
things other than building a

1076
00:57:41,010 --> 00:57:42,280
mind, so.
What?

1077
00:57:42,290 --> 00:57:45,090
So you said the question is why
they haven't been bought.

1078
00:57:46,210 --> 00:57:50,810
What is the answer?
Yeah, well, you know, I hear

1079
00:57:50,820 --> 00:57:58,420
things and I hear of people
wanting to buy them.

1080
00:57:58,430 --> 00:58:01,180
They've had, I'm sure they've
had discussions with the company

1081
00:58:01,190 --> 00:58:04,230
and for whatever reason
nothing's happened.

1082
00:58:04,300 --> 00:58:05,500
And I haven't been in those
meetings.

1083
00:58:05,510 --> 00:58:09,840
So I don't know.
And do I want to comment as to

1084
00:58:09,850 --> 00:58:13,960
why I think they haven't?
I'd rather not frankly, but I

1085
00:58:13,970 --> 00:58:17,760
mean I think I'll be in enough
shit as it is for for stating

1086
00:58:17,830 --> 00:58:21,280
publicly available information.
It was worth a try.

1087
00:58:22,450 --> 00:58:25,470
You refer to it in Australia as
the soft tissues.

1088
00:58:26,190 --> 00:58:29,590
Might be something like that.
So Maddie, why?

1089
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,650
Why don't you think Next Gen has
been sold?

1090
00:58:32,580 --> 00:58:36,440
The soft tissues.
Plus, I would I would also

1091
00:58:36,450 --> 00:58:39,800
speculate that they've always
had these like chunky

1092
00:58:39,810 --> 00:58:43,360
convertibles in there which give
like disproportionate, you know,

1093
00:58:43,410 --> 00:58:46,180
voting alignment to the board,
which is OK, let's keep the

1094
00:58:46,190 --> 00:58:48,140
party going for ourselves as
long as possible.

1095
00:58:48,730 --> 00:58:52,340
Yeah, Yeah.
That is a that is a concern is

1096
00:58:52,350 --> 00:58:57,050
entrenched management for sure.
So, but anyways, they have some

1097
00:58:57,060 --> 00:59:01,280
challenges ahead and and do do I
believe they're going to get to

1098
00:59:01,290 --> 00:59:03,960
a $30 billion market cap?
Absolutely not.

1099
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:08,390
I just just work out some math.
Work out the math is pretty

1100
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,990
straightforward.
Yeah, well, my my view on it is,

1101
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,450
and I've said it before, is that
like when you find a world class

1102
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:18,100
or body like this, just because
it's so bloody good doesn't mean

1103
00:59:18,110 --> 00:59:19,970
that the all body should be
disrespected.

1104
00:59:19,980 --> 00:59:22,780
And that's what they've done to
it by running the company the

1105
00:59:22,790 --> 00:59:26,480
way they've done.
And it's it's an insult to the

1106
00:59:26,490 --> 00:59:30,770
mining industry and I fucking
love mining so.

1107
00:59:31,690 --> 00:59:34,560
It is indeed.
I think those two those two

1108
00:59:34,570 --> 00:59:38,340
statements are exactly correct.
An insult to the mining industry

1109
00:59:38,350 --> 00:59:41,770
for the people who hard, who
work hard, scrimp, save

1110
00:59:42,770 --> 00:59:45,000
custodians through shareholders
money.

1111
00:59:45,050 --> 00:59:47,690
And then when you do find the
goose that lays the golden egg,

1112
00:59:47,700 --> 00:59:52,270
which I believe they have done
to, to disrespect it by not

1113
00:59:53,150 --> 00:59:56,120
optimising and make sure every
nickel that the shareholders

1114
00:59:56,130 --> 01:00:00,740
deserve get to the shareholders
is is disrespecting it so.

1115
01:00:00,790 --> 01:00:03,920
I'll say it is like management
doing their absolute best to

1116
01:00:03,930 --> 01:00:07,060
turn a tier one deposit into
tier 21 by having the world's

1117
01:00:07,070 --> 01:00:09,580
worst capital allocation I've
ever seen in my entire life.

1118
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:14,870
Have you, have you seen any, can
you draw any parallels to this

1119
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,590
next Gen journey, to anything
else you've seen in your history

1120
01:00:17,660 --> 01:00:19,860
and how that actual history
panned out?

1121
01:00:21,860 --> 01:00:24,010
Yeah, there's one, but I'd
rather not say.

1122
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,380
I can't wait to turn the.
Cameras and that's why I'm

1123
01:00:27,390 --> 01:00:31,090
concerned that that is why I'm
concerned here because I could

1124
01:00:31,100 --> 01:00:34,640
give you some hints on it.
One is I think.

1125
01:00:34,650 --> 01:00:37,900
With our breaks the story.
Yeah.

1126
01:00:38,270 --> 01:00:39,820
Anyway, I just give the hints
then.

1127
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,330
They've got, they've got the
deposit, you know, and nothing's

1128
01:00:43,340 --> 01:00:44,510
changed from when I looked at
it.

1129
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:50,140
It's a tremendous deposit,
tremendous jurisdiction, but you

1130
01:00:50,150 --> 01:00:54,040
know, they're, they're not
listed on the NYSE, right?

1131
01:00:55,240 --> 01:01:00,340
So the SEC and the Americans,
they don't take this, this,

1132
01:01:00,410 --> 01:01:03,090
these types of issues too well,
right?

1133
01:01:03,100 --> 01:01:08,740
And there's a rich history, rich
history of shareholders in the

1134
01:01:08,750 --> 01:01:15,190
US not liking this type of
activity and we'll see what

1135
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:19,980
happens.
Yeah, or reckon yeah, alright.

1136
01:01:19,990 --> 01:01:23,400
I reckon the complaint polar
opposite to next Gen after what

1137
01:01:23,410 --> 01:01:28,010
you've said Warren is day as I
complete polar opposite.

1138
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,250
Look, they thought they similar
thing.

1139
01:01:31,260 --> 01:01:33,550
They're the golden goose of
ground support.

1140
01:01:34,020 --> 01:01:37,160
Like, you know, arrows.
The golden goose of uranium

1141
01:01:37,170 --> 01:01:39,270
mods.
But everything else dies.

1142
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:43,890
I allocate their capital wisely
to expand the ground support

1143
01:01:43,900 --> 01:01:47,750
business that they only spend a
small amount on marketing to get

1144
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:52,050
us to tell the world how bloody
good DSI is, which is an

1145
01:01:52,060 --> 01:01:55,760
absolute no brain because we
have actually become stewards of

1146
01:01:55,770 --> 01:01:58,840
the DSI business as a result of.
These I'll go to sleep.

1147
01:01:58,850 --> 01:02:00,300
Hug and a bolt.
Yeah.

1148
01:02:00,390 --> 01:02:03,520
Yeah, they used to do that.
Not not dream about ground

1149
01:02:03,530 --> 01:02:04,820
support.
Has anyone ever done that?

1150
01:02:04,830 --> 01:02:05,780
Never.
You still now?

1151
01:02:05,830 --> 01:02:07,520
Yep.
Exactly.

1152
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,760
They're they're the best at
making ground support for the

1153
01:02:11,770 --> 01:02:14,310
world.
I think that they've stayed in

1154
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,610
their line.
I think next Gen need to do the

1155
01:02:16,620 --> 01:02:19,130
sign.
Just build a bloody Uranium One.

1156
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,690
Stop wasting millions on friggin
sponsorship deals.

1157
01:02:23,780 --> 01:02:27,300
And so actually, I vote for
Derek Herd to become the next

1158
01:02:27,310 --> 01:02:30,930
CEO of Next Jet.
Yeah, I'm back him more for

1159
01:02:30,940 --> 01:02:33,290
sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.

1160
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:35,330
Get it off your chest.
Travel.

1161
01:02:35,340 --> 01:02:36,910
What else have you got?
What?

1162
01:02:37,170 --> 01:02:40,020
I didn't even have to be grumpy
in this episode because, you

1163
01:02:40,030 --> 01:02:42,560
know, was a digital for me.
Yeah, yeah.

1164
01:02:42,650 --> 01:02:46,700
Yeah, and data so I can do it
for everyone else to go DSI.

1165
01:02:46,710 --> 01:02:48,580
Jesus Christ.
Kyle Stralia.

1166
01:02:49,090 --> 01:02:52,600
I'm gonna be, I reckon it'd be
awesome to to get a couple quick

1167
01:02:52,610 --> 01:02:55,760
takes on some commodities over
urge you speak too much about.

1168
01:02:55,770 --> 01:02:58,910
I know you, you love the, the
sort of hated space, the the

1169
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:03,060
contrarian commodities projects
and these sorts of things.

1170
01:03:03,530 --> 01:03:06,920
So is is tin a space you've had
a look at?

1171
01:03:07,570 --> 01:03:10,740
No, it isn't.
No, I do know some smart people

1172
01:03:10,750 --> 01:03:14,290
who've loved it, but at the time
people started loving it, I

1173
01:03:14,300 --> 01:03:16,950
wasn't.
I didn't have really the

1174
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:21,900
bandwidth to get into it.
The heated commodity I like.

1175
01:03:22,250 --> 01:03:25,920
Well, in addition to Medcall, I
love Nicholas Sulphide right

1176
01:03:25,930 --> 01:03:29,320
now.
It's definitely hated and it's

1177
01:03:29,330 --> 01:03:34,050
it's I like it and.
Last time we spoke, you were you

1178
01:03:34,060 --> 01:03:37,710
were pretty fond of premium
nickel with there they're.

1179
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:40,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think, I
think they're sitting on a

1180
01:03:40,410 --> 01:03:45,440
monster discovery of nickel and
you know, I've done a bunch of

1181
01:03:45,450 --> 01:03:49,410
podcasts on it, but the quick
and dirty they have a one

1182
01:03:49,420 --> 01:03:51,560
structure goes like this one
structure goes, it's got a three

1183
01:03:51,570 --> 01:03:54,430
kilometre strike length.
This structure and this

1184
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,930
structure has been mined.
So you know what the grade is

1185
01:03:57,380 --> 01:04:00,230
downhole EM which is
extraordinarily good at finding

1186
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:04,090
nickel indicates there's a three
three that confirms that there

1187
01:04:04,100 --> 01:04:05,490
is a three kilometre strike
length.

1188
01:04:05,500 --> 01:04:08,650
And we just basically need to
punch a few holes into and I

1189
01:04:08,660 --> 01:04:12,550
believe in time drilling that
three kilometre strike, there'll

1190
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,630
be many, many 10s of millions of
pounds of high grade nickel

1191
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,240
copper ore.
And they've already got some

1192
01:04:18,250 --> 01:04:20,390
shafts, a lot of infrastructure
permits.

1193
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,080
It's in a great mining
jurisdiction of Botswana.

1194
01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:27,470
There is.
Pardon me.

1195
01:04:27,860 --> 01:04:29,770
My my best mate grew up in.
Yes.

1196
01:04:31,150 --> 01:04:32,160
Yeah.
I can't pronounce.

1197
01:04:32,170 --> 01:04:33,010
Probably.
I've been there.

1198
01:04:33,020 --> 01:04:34,260
I've driven it.
I went there with him.

1199
01:04:34,270 --> 01:04:35,380
Yeah.
It's nice, good town.

1200
01:04:35,590 --> 01:04:37,940
I mean, it used to be better
back when the mine was running,

1201
01:04:38,770 --> 01:04:40,580
but it was pretty pretty.
Yeah, Yeah.

1202
01:04:40,590 --> 01:04:43,650
Beaten up when I went there, but
yeah, that's good.

1203
01:04:44,410 --> 01:04:50,670
So, yeah, so it's the the risks
there of course are, you know,

1204
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:55,370
getting the story out, capital
structure, having a historical

1205
01:04:55,380 --> 01:04:56,970
mind like a brownfield
situation.

1206
01:04:56,980 --> 01:05:02,300
There's a lot of, um there,
there's a lot of additional

1207
01:05:02,310 --> 01:05:04,360
overhead which would like for
instance, keeping the lights on

1208
01:05:04,370 --> 01:05:07,880
and keeping the shafts in in
good repair is is not cheap,

1209
01:05:07,890 --> 01:05:10,740
things like that, which would
saddle with a little additional

1210
01:05:10,750 --> 01:05:12,070
costs.
That would normally not be the

1211
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:14,810
case with exploration company,
but there's some lot of good

1212
01:05:14,820 --> 01:05:17,830
things.
I'm hoping near term we're going

1213
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:22,040
to get some sort of strategic
investor and possibly the US

1214
01:05:22,050 --> 01:05:25,850
government stepping up.
So that should little by little

1215
01:05:25,860 --> 01:05:28,200
they're going to get made and
readers resource estimate out at

1216
01:05:28,210 --> 01:05:30,600
some point.
Hopefully we'll get a strategic

1217
01:05:30,610 --> 01:05:33,600
over the next little while.
Hopefully the US government will

1218
01:05:33,610 --> 01:05:34,740
finally step up.
They did.

1219
01:05:34,750 --> 01:05:37,840
I'm not sure if you, you notice
they did a, they did an

1220
01:05:37,850 --> 01:05:42,490
interview indicating their
support for premium nickel.

1221
01:05:43,460 --> 01:05:46,270
And so we'll see.
I think little by little people

1222
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:51,050
get to know this story and I
think it's a, it's hurting them

1223
01:05:51,060 --> 01:05:52,650
right now.
It's just really just trying to

1224
01:05:52,660 --> 01:05:55,190
raise capital to do expiration
is really, really tough in

1225
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,750
certain, especially in the
mining sector in general, but

1226
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:01,310
especially in nickel, right?
What did you think when you know

1227
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:05,490
we've recently seen, you know,
70,000 tonne of nickel sulphide

1228
01:06:05,500 --> 01:06:10,150
bead and curtailed or about to
be curtailed from BHP's nickel W

1229
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,870
shutting down and it lures funny
saying there wasn't really a lot

1230
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:17,090
of the equities other sulphide
equities went down.

1231
01:06:17,100 --> 01:06:20,050
But is that what do you what do
you think about that?

1232
01:06:20,060 --> 01:06:24,030
Is that a probably a positive
sign for your nickel sulphide

1233
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,710
thesis or assume it has to be if
supplies being taken off the

1234
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:31,080
market?
Yeah, yeah, I'm not familiar

1235
01:06:31,090 --> 01:06:32,780
with the.
Do you guys know what's up your

1236
01:06:32,790 --> 01:06:38,190
head with the grade is?
Offer no pays operations.

1237
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:42,860
Yeah, yeah, fucking Mount
Keith's sub one pretty lot.

1238
01:06:42,870 --> 01:06:45,050
Yeah, pretty low.
And then and they're not like

1239
01:06:45,060 --> 01:06:48,050
they're not high.
Not Leinster and Mount Keith

1240
01:06:48,060 --> 01:06:53,250
were both lying low iron ratios.
So they needed they needed the

1241
01:06:53,260 --> 01:06:58,010
stuff down in Kambalda to be
mined to lift the iron, lift the

1242
01:06:58,020 --> 01:07:01,670
iron up for the the smelter to
get it to that four to five

1243
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,710
level.
So yeah, it's not, it wasn't

1244
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:08,780
really high quality Nikolai the
side like, yeah, like

1245
01:07:08,790 --> 01:07:13,150
historically the Kambalda stuff
was like, you know, 12 to 14 on

1246
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:16,480
the Mgr ratio.
You know, I think Centaurus is

1247
01:07:16,490 --> 01:07:22,180
about 7, whereas Leinster and
Mount Keith were much lower.

1248
01:07:22,190 --> 01:07:26,320
So they needed to blend it and
do some tricks with the con to

1249
01:07:26,330 --> 01:07:30,370
get it up.
Yeah, yeah.

1250
01:07:30,380 --> 01:07:35,820
And yeah, well, well, obviously
Prema Nicola is much higher

1251
01:07:35,830 --> 01:07:38,980
grades and already has a shaft
and things like that, which are

1252
01:07:38,990 --> 01:07:43,880
definitely helpful.
But once one interesting factor

1253
01:07:43,890 --> 01:07:46,780
that I've I've witnessed and
it's it's publicly available

1254
01:07:46,790 --> 01:07:49,560
too, or just due to the support
the US government's giving us.

1255
01:07:50,810 --> 01:07:53,760
We had a, we had a podcast
actually with us with the CEO

1256
01:07:53,770 --> 01:07:58,640
along with the US ambassador to
Botswana indicating his support

1257
01:07:58,730 --> 01:08:03,290
is with the Chinese control the
nickel laterites in in

1258
01:08:03,300 --> 01:08:05,780
Indonesia.
I think the US government in

1259
01:08:05,790 --> 01:08:10,390
particular is looking for world
class nickel assets to make sure

1260
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:15,680
they're under Western control.
And so there's a significant

1261
01:08:15,690 --> 01:08:18,920
interest in this, in this
project for that reason alone is

1262
01:08:18,930 --> 01:08:22,720
just a strategic nickel resource
and it's a world class nickel

1263
01:08:23,069 --> 01:08:27,540
nickel project in my opinion.
You're, you're also a a

1264
01:08:27,550 --> 01:08:30,960
shareholder in Seoul gold last
time I heard and.

1265
01:08:31,630 --> 01:08:34,319
Via Cornerstone, then they
merged, is that right?

1266
01:08:34,729 --> 01:08:39,760
Yeah, that's right.
Fortunately for me, I bought a

1267
01:08:39,770 --> 01:08:46,330
whole bunch at 8 Pi, think it
was or in around that

1268
01:08:46,340 --> 01:08:50,569
neighbourhood, and I think I
sold half of it at 40 to 50 Pi.

1269
01:08:50,580 --> 01:08:54,380
Made the mistake of continuing
to hold we rolled our shares

1270
01:08:54,390 --> 01:08:57,580
into cornerstone and I'm I'm
still I still own a bunch of

1271
01:08:57,590 --> 01:09:00,180
shares in salt gold, so I am a
shareholder.

1272
01:09:00,189 --> 01:09:03,819
Fortunately I took a bunch off
the table 2017.

1273
01:09:04,130 --> 01:09:08,880
So, yeah, my quick and dirty on
the on the stream is it just

1274
01:09:08,890 --> 01:09:14,439
shows how tricky it is to to
raise money in the in the

1275
01:09:14,450 --> 01:09:19,939
markets and that and you combine
it with you've got strong

1276
01:09:19,950 --> 01:09:25,060
technical expertise of of the
the streamers saying this is a

1277
01:09:25,069 --> 01:09:27,290
fantastic project, we want to be
part of it.

1278
01:09:27,300 --> 01:09:32,590
Yet the markets not there to put
up the capital to to do an

1279
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,880
equity raise right.
So the streamers are there, it's

1280
01:09:35,890 --> 01:09:38,930
a strong technical project.
So we'll see what happens here.

1281
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,710
I think in the news release the
indicated there is a significant

1282
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,149
ability to buy back some of the
stream.

1283
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:48,529
So we'll see what happens over
the next next six months to a

1284
01:09:48,540 --> 01:09:51,670
year to see whether there is a
significant player wants to step

1285
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:54,870
up and put this into production.
What's fascinating about Soul

1286
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:57,590
Gold that many people aren't
aware is not only is the

1287
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:02,480
Cascabel discovery there, but
also Nick Mather, who many of

1288
01:10:02,490 --> 01:10:07,880
you I'm sure are fans of managed
to actually lock up a

1289
01:10:07,890 --> 01:10:10,350
significant amount of expiration
ground in Ecuador.

1290
01:10:10,860 --> 01:10:14,370
And as you know, it's on a long
trend along the copper trend in

1291
01:10:14,380 --> 01:10:16,650
South America.
It's way, way under under

1292
01:10:16,660 --> 01:10:19,510
explored pleasant.
So not only does do they have

1293
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:21,830
the Caswell discovery, but they
also have significant

1294
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:24,870
exploration discovery too
expiration properties along the

1295
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:25,700
way.
So.

1296
01:10:26,730 --> 01:10:29,350
Gina Reinhart, our beloved
billionaire here at.

1297
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:31,880
WA loves Ecuador.
She's been, yeah, putting

1298
01:10:31,890 --> 01:10:34,010
putting dollars to work in
Ecuador lately.

1299
01:10:35,370 --> 01:10:41,000
Yeah, Yeah.
Well, yeah, yeah, I'm sure I

1300
01:10:41,090 --> 01:10:45,570
can't say too much, but I
imagine she's probably taking a

1301
01:10:45,580 --> 01:10:48,470
look at solid gold.
Don't know if she has or not,

1302
01:10:48,480 --> 01:10:51,400
but.
Yeah, well, well, the, the, the,

1303
01:10:51,410 --> 01:10:53,740
the thing with Sogo that always
kind of confused me was when

1304
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:56,720
they they pulled the trigger on
the royalty and pissed off both

1305
01:10:56,810 --> 01:11:00,380
knew it was it Newcrest and HP
on the register.

1306
01:11:00,950 --> 01:11:02,870
Yeah.
I mean, I saw that as completely

1307
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,700
fucking unnecessary.
Like, you know, like you say,

1308
01:11:05,950 --> 01:11:09,420
like junior shouldn't shouldn't
finance their own project.

1309
01:11:09,430 --> 01:11:12,180
It should be taken over and then
you put a royalty on it and well

1310
01:11:12,190 --> 01:11:15,220
heck, you just reduced your your
probability of being taken over.

1311
01:11:16,500 --> 01:11:19,840
No, you, you're exactly right.
And I think at that point in

1312
01:11:19,850 --> 01:11:23,260
time, I wasn't that involved in
the company at the time, but I

1313
01:11:23,270 --> 01:11:25,650
think in that point in time,
there was quite a quite a

1314
01:11:25,660 --> 01:11:28,590
difficult relationship between
BHP and the company.

1315
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:32,990
And I think those the animosity
is settled down quite a bit.

1316
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:38,550
But yeah, I don't think you go
and strap on a royalty without,

1317
01:11:38,660 --> 01:11:41,770
you know, giving a friendly
heads up to your major

1318
01:11:41,780 --> 01:11:44,300
shareholders.
So that may have poisoned the

1319
01:11:44,310 --> 01:11:46,670
well a little bit for sure.
But, you know, just speculation

1320
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:49,720
on my part.
I wasn't involved in in any of

1321
01:11:49,730 --> 01:11:52,590
those discussions.
But I would imagine, you know,

1322
01:11:52,740 --> 01:11:56,570
if I was at BHP, I would not
have been happy to have have had

1323
01:11:56,780 --> 01:11:59,460
something that's significant
done to an asset I had a

1324
01:11:59,470 --> 01:12:02,640
strategic position in.
There especially royalties on

1325
01:12:02,650 --> 01:12:07,460
such long life assets because
the the value destruction is

1326
01:12:07,470 --> 01:12:11,620
just phenomenal, huge.
Yeah, well, I remember one of

1327
01:12:11,630 --> 01:12:14,040
the mine plans that looked at
had a 60 year mine life, right.

1328
01:12:14,050 --> 01:12:17,470
It's a pretty significant asset.
So yeah.

1329
01:12:17,480 --> 01:12:22,060
And what do you do you just, and
today it's not as if the, the

1330
01:12:22,070 --> 01:12:26,650
financing windows open for, for
a lot of these juniors, even

1331
01:12:26,660 --> 01:12:30,980
with discoveries.
And so I applaud them for doing

1332
01:12:30,990 --> 01:12:34,390
the streaming deal.
And well, we'll see what happens

1333
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:37,340
here over the next little while.
It's interesting too, like

1334
01:12:37,350 --> 01:12:39,710
you're, you're you're dealing
with when I see a lot of these

1335
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:43,830
non market participants starting
waving their arms and saying,

1336
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:46,430
well, you know, copper is a
future need copper for

1337
01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:48,490
everything, copper for cars,
copper for electrical

1338
01:12:48,500 --> 01:12:52,160
infrastructure.
And then you see an outstanding

1339
01:12:52,170 --> 01:12:56,260
project like Cascabel just
sitting there with no takers,

1340
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,210
not no takers.
But, you know, I mean, they're

1341
01:12:59,220 --> 01:13:04,140
they're not there's, there's not
a a dozen mining companies all

1342
01:13:04,150 --> 01:13:06,140
fighting for the opportunity to
put it in the production.

1343
01:13:06,150 --> 01:13:08,760
Let's put it that way, or we
would have seen a bid by now,

1344
01:13:08,770 --> 01:13:12,400
right?
I just find it baffling,

1345
01:13:12,410 --> 01:13:16,180
frankly, that that saw gold
hasn't been picked off here by

1346
01:13:16,190 --> 01:13:19,330
somebody who wants to put put a
big copper mine into production

1347
01:13:19,340 --> 01:13:22,160
that's, you know, will run for
many, many decades.

1348
01:13:22,870 --> 01:13:25,900
As Baywatch, Payne Newmont got
their foot on it, but like,

1349
01:13:25,910 --> 01:13:29,740
would Jake, would Jane Ryan Hart
be able to take it with all

1350
01:13:29,750 --> 01:13:31,730
those those players at the table
already?

1351
01:13:34,060 --> 01:13:37,670
I'm OK, I'll tell you my
opinion.

1352
01:13:37,730 --> 01:13:42,130
In my opinion is I think if you
look at the number of people

1353
01:13:42,140 --> 01:13:45,760
that have large shareholdings in
it, there's a significant amount

1354
01:13:45,770 --> 01:13:49,130
of the stock under control of
both management and large

1355
01:13:49,140 --> 01:13:51,390
shareholders who I think would
be supportive of this,

1356
01:13:51,480 --> 01:13:55,170
supportive of the sales.
So when that day comes, you

1357
01:13:55,180 --> 01:13:57,950
know, BHP would need to make a
decision.

1358
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:02,870
What's interesting about this
BHP situation, I remember I was

1359
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,930
Nick, Nick told, you know, Nick
brought me over the wall way

1360
01:14:06,940 --> 01:14:09,250
back when there's about, you
know, getting a major.

1361
01:14:09,260 --> 01:14:11,230
And I said, Nick, please don't
get a major and don't get a

1362
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:16,810
major in gets a major in having
somebody like, but yeah, having

1363
01:14:16,820 --> 01:14:20,410
BHP as a shareholder scares away
a number of people, right?

1364
01:14:20,420 --> 01:14:22,300
Because they say I'm going to do
all the work and do the due

1365
01:14:22,310 --> 01:14:24,070
diligence and then make a bid
for your company.

1366
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:26,210
And then it BHP wants to just
top it, right?

1367
01:14:26,220 --> 01:14:30,330
So they it, it, it harms you in
some ways.

1368
01:14:30,340 --> 01:14:33,310
But right now, I would think
that if you added up the

1369
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:36,250
shareholders of all, all the
major shareholders who I think

1370
01:14:36,260 --> 01:14:40,610
would be interested in, in
working with the buyer, I think

1371
01:14:40,620 --> 01:14:43,810
you could probably get a pretty
significant percentage of the

1372
01:14:43,820 --> 01:14:48,880
shares, probably 35 to 40.
And yeah.

1373
01:14:48,930 --> 01:14:51,840
And so that would be a pretty
significant block voting for

1374
01:14:51,850 --> 01:14:53,180
you.
And there's, I'm sure there's

1375
01:14:53,190 --> 01:14:56,800
some other mechanisms that you
could do to make sure that a bid

1376
01:14:56,810 --> 01:14:59,480
is successful.
So I think, I think Saul Gold

1377
01:14:59,490 --> 01:15:06,390
could, could, could crown a
winner if there is when that

1378
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:10,220
winner steps up and wants to, to
get real with things, I think,

1379
01:15:10,450 --> 01:15:13,140
but then, you know, worst case
scenario is there will be

1380
01:15:13,150 --> 01:15:14,900
additional bidders stepping up
the table.

1381
01:15:14,910 --> 01:15:18,580
But we'll see.
It's, it's so, so difficult to

1382
01:15:18,590 --> 01:15:20,740
predict what would happen with
Saul Gold here, frankly.

1383
01:15:20,750 --> 01:15:24,240
And even after having watched it
for for as many years as I have,

1384
01:15:24,250 --> 01:15:26,260
it's going to be difficult to
predict how it ends up and who

1385
01:15:26,270 --> 01:15:29,300
ends up owning it.
Hmm, very interesting.

1386
01:15:29,310 --> 01:15:30,990
Nah, good chat mate, Really
easy.

1387
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,750
You got anything else Chidi?
Well, you got the legend on the

1388
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:36,550
lawn.
We've we've hit all the notes.

1389
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:38,810
Appreciate you taking the time.
Good to good to chat again

1390
01:15:38,820 --> 01:15:39,450
Warren.
Thank you.

1391
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:43,850
Gentlemen, very nice, very nice
to chat with you too and good

1392
01:15:43,860 --> 01:15:44,820
luck with everything.
Thank.

1393
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:52,550
You so full God You and you and
Warren Owen use a good together

1394
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:55,600
Trav.
He's your type of guy.

1395
01:15:55,820 --> 01:15:58,870
Oht he's got, he's got a funky
investment style.

1396
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:01,570
He's hyper concentrated and only
undeveloped projects.

1397
01:16:01,580 --> 01:16:04,190
I couldn't invest that way, but
you know, he's got a knack for

1398
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:06,310
it.
But yeah, he doesn't mind

1399
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:08,030
speaking his opinion, which I
like.

1400
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:10,650
I like the ability to just be a
bit punchy.

1401
01:16:10,660 --> 01:16:15,010
Little bit, little bit, yeah.
Yeah right, imagine Trevor when

1402
01:16:15,020 --> 01:16:18,440
you're older and you know when
people get old, they really

1403
01:16:18,450 --> 01:16:21,020
don't care what people think
cause they're at the back end of

1404
01:16:21,090 --> 01:16:23,770
anyway, not that warrants that
old Yeah, imagine how much did

1405
01:16:23,780 --> 01:16:26,240
you get ahold?
Of you grumpy fucking old man,

1406
01:16:26,250 --> 01:16:28,720
that's.
For shoes, you are gonna be

1407
01:16:29,470 --> 01:16:31,090
brilliant.
I can't wait for it.

1408
01:16:31,350 --> 01:16:36,110
I'm here with you all the way.
Cover like spike it also is here

1409
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:40,240
with us our bloody beautiful
partners access mine and

1410
01:16:40,250 --> 01:16:43,120
technology at the top of the
show North American people

1411
01:16:43,190 --> 01:16:46,400
access archest Aussie there
bloody North American and

1412
01:16:46,410 --> 01:16:49,480
remember call the bloody number
in the show notes.

1413
01:16:49,610 --> 01:16:52,140
Oh sure now you get a free
trial.

1414
01:16:52,150 --> 01:16:55,760
Just save money abalone sort of
easy as that mineral mine and

1415
01:16:55,770 --> 01:17:00,400
services the bloody gun mining
contractor verify get wet

1416
01:17:00,410 --> 01:17:06,970
solutions day aside underground
Silverstone CRE insurance that's

1417
01:17:07,020 --> 01:17:10,410
all you need to know is say R
insurance that's it.

1418
01:17:10,480 --> 01:17:14,810
WA waterballs Kadro and I don't
think we had a spark chart in

1419
01:17:14,820 --> 01:17:17,070
there today.
You spark, but if we had a chart

1420
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:19,810
it would have been a spark.
But information contained in

1421
01:17:19,820 --> 01:17:22,610
this episode of Money of Mine is
of general nature only and does

1422
01:17:22,620 --> 01:17:25,390
not take into account the
objectives, financial situation

1423
01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:27,650
or needs of any particular
person.

1424
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:30,790
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

1425
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,870
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

1426
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:37,510
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.