Uranium Stocks Surge on Kazakh Taxes

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Rhino Money miners Talking to a
fellow yesterday, he went to a

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bloody mining company.
They asked who do you use for

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your core orientation and drill
hole direction?

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Bloody technology, your gyro.
They said axis and the company

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said that's good 'cause we trust
them.

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That is all we the the the
company that GIS and drillers

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trust for gyros core
orientation.

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That's all we need to say.
We trust axes.

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I trust you, Maddie, and you
have been in the weeds, the

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trustworthy source of the
uranium today.

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Well, I won't.
Why?

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I was watching bloody suits on
the couch last night and a bit

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of Khazadam prom news come out
and the bloody uranium equities

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were ripping, getting bloody,
ripping the market a new

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asshole.
And mate, I thought, jeez, I

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just got to sleep, 'cause
there's a bit of Northern

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hemisphere summer, but there's
some uranium news and I'm

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excited.
How'd you, how'd you spot

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holding going, mate?
Oh.

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She went up a couple of percent,
mate.

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Ding Ding, Ding on the spot.
But yeah, no good stuff.

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We're gonna go through it boys.
You user keep flying the lithium

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flag is haven't forgot about
this integral chemical for the

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battery revolution and it's good
to see.

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Yeah, it's mate in the Doldrum
speed time some yeah sale

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sentiment.
I think JD is doing a bit on IGO

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and the the proposed JV that was
with with WAILU that's been kind

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of canned and it's just, there's
just bloody negative news

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everywhere for lithium at the
moment.

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Yeah.
Well, that's positive news for

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their balance sheet, probably
because they won't lose as much

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money maybe.
That's that's one way to look at

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it, mate.
It's not the end of the world

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for people buying the batteries
either.

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Yeah, if the, you know, if the
price keeps going down, it's not

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the.
End of the world.

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We'll get into it, but you boys
just hold up because we're under

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the yellow cake today.
Bloody one, one thing someone

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was telling me yesterday, Why do
you guys, you guys should I

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didn't even know about your
newsletter.

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Why don't you talk about it more
on the podcast?

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And so mate, let's I'm just just
just feel the need to shout it

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out right now.
In case you're listening to this

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and you you're not on the you're
not on the director special.

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What are you doing with
yourself?

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Moneyofmine.com That's all you
need to know.

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Go there and you will get like a
little bit of tongue in cheek

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all of the news you need to know
about the mining sector every

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single weekday.
This is that.

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Was there another announcement
we had to shout out?

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Oh, we do, yeah.
Oh yeah, any bloody any, any

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fundies or whoever's in town the
week or two before diggers give

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us a buzz, come in, have a yarn
and a potty.

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Yeah, if you, if you're
typically based over east, but

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you you find yourself in Perth
just before, just before I'm

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going to Calvin Diggers, then
you know, we might do a few of

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those sort of like round table
Fundy chats or whatever it and

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just record them sort of
beforehand.

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So just let us know, let us know
if we get in touch.

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Yeah, get in touch if you get,
if you come in this way and what

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what your schedule.
Is moneyofmine.com and fundies

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call us boom right back to it.
Cameco up 10% last night.

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Uranium equities were ripping
though, because Adam Prom, the

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bloody Kazak, massive friggin
producer of uranium, the biggest

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in the world, down 6%.
Wow.

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So we'll get into why those
differences.

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Look at the you've, you've
ripped out the spark charts,

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Trav.
Look at, look at, look at the

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Aussie ones.
Just bloody ripping and tearing.

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They all look the exact same,
don't they?

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All of those uranium equities
just oh, shut up on open.

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Something's happened overnight,
Madam.

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I'm glad you.
Don't tell me, right, let's go

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over what's happened.
News out of Kazakhstan, the

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country, the government.
This could have a lot of

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implications on global, but
maybe global supply maybe term

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pricing all that sort of stuff.
Now they've they've up updated

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the mineral extraction tax the
Met and so that is effectively

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the bloody tax that these
uranium mines will pay per

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sublease based on how much they
produce is.

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This a tax explicitly on the
uranium.

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Like well, it said for it said
for mining.

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OK.
So it could impact there's gold,

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there's gold mining.
Yeah, there's other other ones

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there.
So there's some.

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Copper copper mining there too.
But I think there's the stuff

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I'll go through today is the
specifics for uranium mining.

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So that's gonna be increasing.
It sounds like it is was 6%.

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So sit that.
And that is 6%.

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Like think of it as ANSR
royalty.

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Like it's a, it's like a, a
gross royalty.

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It's literally the bloody, the
pounds of U3O8 produce times the

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weighted average bloody spot
price times this tax rate.

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That's what they are.
So it's a gross gross royalty.

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So it's bloody big numbers here.
So it was 6%.

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Yeah.
For 2025, it's gonna be

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increasing to 9%.
Yeah.

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And then from 2026 onwards, I'll
bring up this table here.

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The right will be scaled up
based on the production volume.

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So now it says the table says
tonnes.

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So I've calculate calculated the
pounds based on tonnes of

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uranium in the form of U3O8
which is multiplied by 2600.

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That that seems to be how
because Adambrom reports it.

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So I'll tell you the multiplied
by 2600 or 2200.

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Hopefully I've got it right.
So effectively anything mined

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over 4000 tonnes of U in the
form of U3O8 which is £10.4

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million will have a gross like
I'll say a royalty or this tax

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of 18%.
Wow on that amount 18%.

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So now I'm interpreting the
table as those tax rates only

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apply for the pounds in each
bracket 'cause I would assume if

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you go over each bracket it
doesn't apply the top right to

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everything before it.
I'm assuming that So it's 18%

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for every pound mined over
bloody 4000 tonnes or ten and a

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half million pounds within each
sublease.

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Like it's not the whole of
'cause atom prom 'cause I'll

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bring up the map here.
They've got friggin mines

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everywhere and multiple J VS but
like as a whole 'cause atom prom

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put.
But this, this arrangement is

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per like per sublease.
So and I'll go through them all

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later.
So, yeah, so I this is how I

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interpret it.
So like if you get to 4000 tonne

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of you 10 and a half million
pounds, the tax combined tax, if

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you say the the rate for 500 to
1000 to 2000, yadda yadda will

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be 12.8%.
So and then.

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So then if you go to.
It's like calculating your tax

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payable mate.
Yeah exactly.

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It's like on the bracketed.
Tax brackets, so bloody gotcha

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five, you know, 5000 tonne would
be up in the 15 and a bit

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percent so and and so on.
It's kind of crazy.

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And additionally, on top of that
trap, that's one, that's one tax

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that you get.
But then on top of that, you

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have to also pay a rate based on
the weighted average spot price

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of uranium.
So if the uranium spot price

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exceeds US 110 bucks a pound, an
additional 2 1/2 percent royalty

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will apply on top of.
That so it probably is just just

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targeted at uranium production
then it's not, it's not the

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broader.
Yeah.

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These are the these are the
specifics for the uranium

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uranium part.
Of it far out OK so it's it's

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kind of like a bit of a like
they're taxing profitability but

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also taxing production, you know
more.

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Yeah, agree.
Just kind of weigh them before

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and clearly it wasn't properly
priced in.

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Well, yeah.
And you'd think like once I once

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I for the bigger mines and I'll
go through which ones they are

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that are going to be in that top
tax bracket.

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All those top chunk of pounds
are going to be effective

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potentially if the spot price
goes up as well at 20 1/2

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percent taxed on what you take
out gross.

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So it's so who does it, who does
it impact?

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So the the you got, you got
Kazakhstan, you got Kazatom

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prom, you've got the JV
partners.

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So for Kazakhstan, fucking
sensational.

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Great for the country.
More money retained in the

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country.
Is it because sometimes you

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disincentivise more investment
as well?

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We'll.
Get to that, yes, yes, but it's

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in terms of short term cash in
the pocket.

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Great for them.
Kazatom prom the youse can youse

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can give me your opinion on
this, but this is the way I'll

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look at it.
So because Kazadamprom is 75%

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owned by the state sovereign
wealth fund and then the 25% is

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what we see on the stock market,
which is the free float.

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So for you'd say for the
Kazadamprom equity, like the

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actual share, you would think
it's a negative because then

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their, their cost base is going
to go up.

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They're paying Cos that
Kazakhstan, the country more

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money.
So you would think that

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Cosatomprom as a business will
make less money Cos they're

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playing this shit load more tax.
But since Cosatomprom 75%

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effectively owned by the
country, by the state sovereign

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wealth fund, it's they're
robbing Peter to pay Paul.

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They're just taking the money
from here and putting it over

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there.
Yeah.

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So the state sovereign wealth
fund, is that is that like like

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owned by the state or is it
owned by the people?

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Not sure.
Not sure.

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Anyway, it is yeah, I.
Think I'd say it's similar to.

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Yeah, I don't know that.
In some ways I wonder if like

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because there's a disincentive
to produce as much or like just

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rent production like crazy or
whatever.

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You know, you're, you're mining
for a longer period of time.

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So the, you know, your NPV is
somewhat path dependent on how

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uranium price goes over a longer
period of time.

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Now you're retaining call
options.

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And I've got to I'll, I'll, I'll
go into that because it's like

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what to do with the incentives
and managing where you are in

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those brackets throughout the
life of these mines could, could

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play a big factor now.
This, this is hitting everyone

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just by the way, I just had a a
quick little Google in the

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background and it's not set out
the same for other metals, but

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they've upped the charges.
You know, first 7.8% on nickel,

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for instance, 10.4 on lead,
8.55% on copper.

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They're they're all up in them
as of January 1, 2026.

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Yeah.
So before I get into the impact

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on the JV partners, let's go
over the landscape of because

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Adam Prom and who the JV
partners are and which of the

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which of the big ones?
So because overall, a lot of the

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big operations, all the big the
biggest ones are JV

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00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,080
arrangements.
They're not 100% owned by

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Kazatomprom.
And these are the ones in the

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the South part of Kazakhstan in
the I think it's the Chisar

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Chisarasu basin.
Boy, how have you bloody?

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So I actually put that into
Google pronounced this and it

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couldn't fucking do it.
I'm spewing.

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I actually tried Chisarasu
basin.

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So if you look at them here, the
biggest, the biggest one coming

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online is boot and off score.
You'd hear about that boot and

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off score four and five.
Yeah.

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So that's 49% Russia's Rosatom
and the rest is Cosatom PROM.

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00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,960
And now that's going to produce
about £15.6 million from about

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probably 2029 onwards, I'd say.
So you look at that amount of

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00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,520
pounds that'll incur around a 15
to 16% royalty on that

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00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,160
production plus the spot price
royalty, whatever that might be.

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00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,320
So that could be frigging.
I'm not sure what the spot price

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00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,400
one as well is if it's bracketed
as well, like if it's the price

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00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,600
is 115 bucks a pound, it's only
that 2 1/2 percent on the 5

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00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,760
bucks and and teared from there.
Not sure how that works.

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00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,000
So I'll bring up the graph of
like how big this is for Cos

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00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,920
Adam prom.
You can see the light orange is

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what boot and off score will
contribute to Khazaram prom's

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profile.
So it's that was massive.

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00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,720
Yeah, it's bloody huge.
It's a it's the big hum hum

224
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,800
dinger, but that's Russia.
So next one is the Inka JV.

225
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,200
So that's about 10.9 gonna be
about £10.9 million.

226
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:36,800
That's 40% chemical, yes.
So that's you know, there's 13%

227
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,080
tax on that plus another bloody
1 to 2 1/2 on the for the spot

228
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,840
prosper.
Like remember chemical pumping

229
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,640
out about £17 million for their
share of cigar like and

230
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,760
MacArthur Riverside four and a
bit, £1,000,000 out of here

231
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,800
won't have much of an effect on
chemical as a as a business for

232
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,840
that.
Then you've got Catco, that's

233
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,400
about £10.6 million.
That's 51% Arana, the French

234
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,480
utility.
Then there's Carotel for £9.3

235
00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:12,040
million, that's 50% Uranium 1,
which is part of 10X, which is

236
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:17,280
part of Rosatom Russia.
So if you look at all of them,

237
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,000
what's the takeaway for the
JV's?

238
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,600
There's I guess there's two
elements.

239
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,960
I think where the there will be
in effect one is around this so

240
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,080
called structural supply deficit
that you know the the great Mike

241
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,880
Alkal and everyone talk about,
the other is around the term

242
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:39,360
pricing and another question is
why equities like Kamiko and

243
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,920
everything ripped last night so.
Kamiko ripped.

244
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,200
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, like, yeah, but like, why?

245
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:45,840
Why did they?
We'll get into that.

246
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,240
Fuck, I've got this.
Back Yeah.

247
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,800
And I'm, I'm curious because
it's not, it's not immediately

248
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,960
obvious if OK, one country has
to pay high tax, why that should

249
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,120
flow into the prices of Yeah,
exactly.

250
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,920
So on the long term supply
exactly to your point before

251
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:09,280
Trav, this is a massive
disincentive to expand or exceed

252
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,880
guidance or anything of for any
of these 'cause Adam prom JV

253
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,880
operations like it's which
involve these JV partners, even

254
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,760
even though they'll still make
money, it's a big bloody chunk.

255
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,680
Like it that royalty is huge.
It's like, oh, it's I don't know

256
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,520
what the exact number is, but
it's like what bloody like what

257
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,360
bloody the SQM and all that have
to pay the Chilean government

258
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,800
the more on the in the Atacama,
like so much goes out the door

259
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,440
in that royalty when it's that
big.

260
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:43,920
So, but will there will there be
incentive to as you said, spread

261
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,520
the production out a bit, maybe
maintain like not shit loads in

262
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,040
those top tax brackets and you
know elongate it for longer

263
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,360
terms to not be as exposed to
that.

264
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,960
Then like it seems like anything
above that 10,000,000 lbs is

265
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:04,280
like there's not much incentive
to be better to maybe drag it

266
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,880
out a bit longer rather than
yeah, but the and because the

267
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,360
three operations in question
that I mentioned booting off

268
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:17,400
Score Inco and Catco, not sure
how much control those JV

269
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,480
partners would have over what
cause Adam prom wanna do with

270
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,560
it.
Arano were 51%.

271
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:24,840
I'm not sure if that.
OK.

272
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,400
Who's the operator in all?
Of well you assume it cause Adam

273
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,040
Prom's is the operator.
Operator.

274
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:30,800
OK, I know that's the case for
ink.

275
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,960
I assume they're the, I assume
they're the operator.

276
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,560
But Iran, I do have the major
percent, but I assume 'cause

277
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,880
Adam, probably the operator.
So I'm not sure how much control

278
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,160
they've got to say cause 'cause
Adam probably wanna fucking rip

279
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,360
it out as quick as they can
cause it's great to the country.

280
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,200
They get their country cash
quicker.

281
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,280
But will it be?
Yeah.

282
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,440
So that's gonna be an
interesting dynamic to play out.

283
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,920
They remember this is like a
backflip to what we were talking

284
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,440
about before.
It's all contingent on this new

285
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:03,400
sulfuric acid capacity getting
built in country, getting the

286
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,320
extraction rates up to where
they're going to go.

287
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,800
So all of that's still very much
in the question.

288
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:13,000
But overall the the global
supply of uranium is in this

289
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,200
structural supply deficit.
This tax might have just put a

290
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,480
bit of a even lower cap on what
could come out of Kazakhstan,

291
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,240
which has the most, you would
say, ability to talk to really

292
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,640
move the needle cause of the
just cause of how big it is.

293
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,000
So this might have this might
have just put it so they were

294
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,360
here, might have just dropped
them down a bit and the pounds

295
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,720
have to come from somewhere.
Less chance of dialling up the

296
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,160
bloody dialling up the needle to
fill in voids.

297
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,640
Yeah.
So and one of the one of the

298
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,760
knocks on the uranium thesis for
for ages is off.

299
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,000
If the price shoots so much, the
Kazakhs would just rent

300
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,960
production like last time and
and here you've got like a a tax

301
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,160
regime that actually
disincentivizes the ramping of

302
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:56,840
production.
Yeah, very much so.

303
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,400
And that doesn't even bring into
mention what what Mike Alcon

304
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,600
said or you mentioned before
Maddie that you know, doubting

305
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:08,079
the ability, the operational
capabilities of the Kazaks to

306
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:11,760
even ramp up, you know, even
with the asset, even with the

307
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,680
the resources in the ground.
Yeah.

308
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,240
It's, it's just another thing
against it really, which is

309
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,079
yeah.
So under the pricing, so as this

310
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:26,560
tax rate is effectively going
from up from 6% this year, 9%

311
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:31,960
next year, then this varied
12026 onwards, it's increased

312
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:37,640
the cost base for the J VS like
no, no other way to look at it.

313
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,680
Their their costs have gone up.
Will this mean based on their

314
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,520
costs going up as of this
change, will they not be

315
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,920
accepting term contracts in the
current form?

316
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,000
Will they wanna be?
They'd be negotiating for higher

317
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,920
term prices to offset this
increased cost base because

318
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,960
they've just had a massive chunk
of their margin taken out Yeah

319
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:05,200
and they these, so these tax
cuts could effectively flow into

320
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,400
an increase in this term price
for for yellow cake.

321
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,720
Like I guess.
So who and who benefits from

322
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,600
that?
Kamiko?

323
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,880
Obviously they're pumping out a
shit load of pounds from

324
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,880
Atabaska Basin but you know like
it'll take a lot of years for

325
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,480
them to really realise any
benefit from long term pricing

326
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,600
'cause you know they got
contracts already in place and

327
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,600
you're looking 345 years down
the road beyond existing

328
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,880
contracts.
So it might help them

329
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,880
eventually.
But think of the other smaller

330
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,840
producers coming online like
Paladin and Boss.

331
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,240
Like they haven't got a shit
load contracted out.

332
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:44,920
This will fave.
Could favour them to lock in

333
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,440
some contracts at higher prices,
more power given division like

334
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,840
which will probably be Paladin
the way things are going next

335
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,680
Gen Encore, Denison, Deep
Yellow, Bannerman when they when

336
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,200
they're all negotiating
contracts trying to bring things

337
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,200
online.
Because look spot price hasn't

338
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,720
moved much.
Still sitting around 85 bucks a

339
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,840
pound.
And look, you'd say the uranium

340
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,800
spot price is more of a more of
a guide for sentiment than an

341
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,200
actual frigging market.
It is so small compared to the

342
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:19,520
term market, but it it does give
sentiment on what the market is

343
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,480
doing.
That's how that's that's how

344
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,360
I've come to peace with the spot
market.

345
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,880
So I think that's a that's a
good interpretation of the, the

346
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,840
pricing.
And like if you just picture a

347
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,840
cost curve, right, well, now
highlight all of the bloody the

348
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,680
bars on that cost curve that are
the, you know, the, the Kazak

349
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,600
supply that might be impacted it
and you just increase the cost

350
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,480
of all of that.
And what does that do to, you

351
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,360
know, marginal price well?
Well, they're they're what would

352
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:45,320
you say that this has
effectively compressed the cost

353
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,960
curve or brain?
In some ways, yeah, I, I sort of

354
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,640
just like, you know, it's
lifting the, the, the cost of

355
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,760
the, you know, Kazak production
in some way, shape or form.

356
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,720
It's like increasing the cost.
And when it takes a, when it's a

357
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,920
higher cost to produce.
And you know, if, if any of that

358
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,920
production is sort of marginal
production, then where does

359
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,280
where does, you know, like, like
for them to be profitable, you

360
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,440
basically have to have a price
set a little bit higher.

361
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,160
Now if that's if that's marginal
production.

362
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,080
Yeah.
And we'll like, so Kamiko's

363
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,960
technically been pushed up the
cost curve of now because

364
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:19,720
because Atom problems costs are
going up.

365
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,040
Yeah.
There might be some operations

366
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:21,960
that have.
Yeah, yeah.

367
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,440
Yeah and the hence like Kamiko,
so between getting better

368
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:32,600
pricing and being a lower global
quartile cost producer, Kamiko

369
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,640
you know up 10% last night.
So very interesting.

370
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,280
Look, it's, as I said, for a
notoriously quiet time in

371
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,920
uranium in the old northern
hemisphere summer, it's good to

372
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,600
see some bloody action.
I'll tell you like once this

373
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,000
like we know how much energy
nuclear pumps out, like once

374
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,240
this shit heats up, especially
in Australia, holy snapping duck

375
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,040
shit.
Gerard James is gonna be busy at

376
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,480
WA waterboards.
He's gonna be flat stick

377
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,920
drilling out those uranium paleo
channels.

378
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,840
I can see it.
Yeah, mate, there's no, no need

379
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,880
to worry about your your flow
rate when you got Gerald James.

380
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,360
Just like unlocking those paleo
channels left, right and centre.

381
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:13,200
Oh.
But if he's had that much

382
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,760
success with water, imagine what
he can do with uranium.

383
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,040
Well, he's just.
He's just drilling for fun at

384
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:19,800
the moment.
Finds a bit of water here and

385
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,160
there, couple of monitoring
boards, Chuck a few Pezos in

386
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,200
bloody underground breakthrough
service aisles if he needs to.

387
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:31,320
He's just, he's just ticking
along, doing Gerard James things

388
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:35,840
and 'cause he knows that when
the uranium, the nuclear

389
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,160
renaissance comes, he is gonna
be at the forefront of

390
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:44,720
delivering it for Australia.
So mate, Gerard James, just hang

391
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,480
in there mate.
Give him his phone number's in.

392
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,240
If you want to lock him in now
before he actually friggin saves

393
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,840
the world.
I'd highly recommend checking

394
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,320
his number out in the show
notes.

395
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,840
Gerald James, love your bloody
work.

396
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,840
Good stuff boys, Fucking love
it, Love it.

397
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,880
Till there's more uranium news,
I'll just do ads.

398
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,080
Yeah, love it.
Good work.

399
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:06,280
Good work, Maddie.
Good to see.

400
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:06,600
You.
Oh no.

401
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,920
What do you think?
What are you after me waffling

402
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,320
on for ages?
No, that was, that was great.

403
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,880
Maddie, I think the the sort of
passing comment you made on a

404
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,920
bit of a flattening of the cost
curve is probably sort of on

405
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,360
point given that we know a lot
of those Kazak assets sit to the

406
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,200
the sort of left of the cost
curve.

407
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,600
It just notches, you know a lot
of assets given how many various

408
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,080
JV's and individual projects
there are in Kazakhstan up a

409
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,240
bit.
So the, you know, in turn the

410
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,440
whole, the whole cost curve
comes that little bit more

411
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:39,920
expensive like you said as well,
Trev.

412
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,880
But is it, is it like that you
know the Lithium 1 where you

413
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,120
look at the actual operation
costs and you got the out of

414
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,720
Atacama ones over there, but
then you look at the once the

415
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,400
the money made from it, they're
at the other end because of the

416
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,320
royalty.
You want you want to look at two

417
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,280
different yeah, you want to look
at your fully loaded costs,

418
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,720
right.
Like, so, yeah, Chuck, Chuck,

419
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,440
all of that on top, you know,
because that's what what does it

420
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,200
matter to be you keep producing
up until you're no longer

421
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,000
profitable.
And when, when you you have to

422
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,000
include all of your costs for
that equation, let's say I think

423
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,160
you got to look at your your
total kind of cost curve with

424
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,120
royalties and tax and all that
sort of stuff in there.

425
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,880
And that's what this this sort
of does.

426
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,800
Yeah.
The other thought I had when you

427
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,040
were talking Maddie was like
how, how much like how many

428
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,240
other subleases in Kazakhstan
could be kind of perspective for

429
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,840
uranium mines that don't have
any plans yet.

430
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:31,840
But it it might also incentivize
kind of, you know, just more

431
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,840
dispersion of, of mining
operations.

432
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,840
So it might, it might bring
forward other projects or other

433
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,800
areas and to exploration in
other areas where you can have

434
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,680
more more a higher number of of
operations.

435
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,760
A.
Higher number of small ones,

436
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,120
Yeah, I think.
I think the whole, the whole

437
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:49,120
sublease arrangement, there is a
is a world.

438
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:50,600
I'm not.
Not familiar.

439
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,120
With no, yeah, that'd be a
bloody very interesting one to

440
00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:56,520
fucking get your head around.
That's a Benny Feingold job,

441
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,120
that one.
But like, as you said, like for

442
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,800
for tax purposes, they're better
to have ten £3,000,000

443
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,240
operations than two £15,000,000
operations under this regime.

444
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,880
But who has the power on that
does extend because that's not

445
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,200
good for them because they don't
get as much in the door.

446
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,760
So.
I mean, you could, you could

447
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,640
very well make the argument that
it's just not great news for

448
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,120
uranium despite plenty of the
equities kind of launching last

449
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:26,720
night, Maddie, the the problem
put forward that is there enough

450
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,560
uranium out there to address
that supply the reactor builds

451
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,920
that we're seeing There was some
some great coverage of what

452
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,280
they're trying to do in across
Eastern Europe recently.

453
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,960
It's, it's not a check of the
box in the sort of, you know,

454
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,680
guaranteeing supply in future
and alleviating any of the

455
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,360
concerns that some of the
reactor builders might have.

456
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,480
Oh, yeah.
Like in terms of, you know,

457
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:53,040
lowering greenhouse gases and
increasing nuclear power and

458
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,600
like that side of things, yeah,
not good.

459
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,360
But if you're an equity holder?
I reckon it is good 'cause it's

460
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:02,320
it like if it increases the the
price of your own midterm or

461
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,920
otherwise, and that that's an
incentive price.

462
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,200
Ultimately, the higher the price
goes, the more incentive there

463
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,440
is to like, invest in extracting
more of it from the ground.

464
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,680
So but it but it is like and
that, but that's the thing, the

465
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,200
uranium price at the moment is
at incentive pricing like yeah.

466
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,680
And we're seeing some new
production.

467
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:18,160
Come on.
Yeah.

468
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,960
Yeah, it's just getting them
fucking permitted and built.

469
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,680
Exactly.
Yeah, and funded cost of cost of

470
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,880
capital.
Yeah, if if it ultimately

471
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,560
disincentivizes reactor builds,
then it's not a good thing.

472
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,920
But we're we're looking many,
many steps ahead there and it's

473
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,080
very hard to ascertain what the
right outcome is because it does

474
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,960
seem like, you know, the the
fire and away biggest player is

475
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,200
China and they're pressing ahead
regardless and a few of these

476
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,560
other countries that are
building, you know, dozens

477
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,680
rather than the the one or two
reactors scattered around that

478
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:53,440
we're talking about.
I'll.

479
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,040
Be interested to see what
happens after this, if there's

480
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:02,160
any ownership sales because like
like China, for instance, does

481
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:08,280
have a lot of those JVS, but
they're on the much, much

482
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,680
smaller end.
So we're like, yeah, so they're,

483
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,360
they're on the, I think
£5,000,000 less for those

484
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:18,680
because, Adam, problems like CGN
and CNNT are in there.

485
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:23,800
So like you wonder if they might
actually buy stakes off your

486
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,720
Urano or your chemical because
if they don't think it's

487
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,040
favourable operating them at
higher tax rates.

488
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,800
Not sure.
There's one other interesting

489
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,880
angle, and I haven't looked
closely in the numbers here, so

490
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,280
I'm probably talking out of my
ass, but there are phenomenally

491
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,080
big energy projects in
Kazakhstan.

492
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,640
The likes of Chevron have, you
know, invested many billions of

493
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,800
dollars there.
And tweaking royalties on those

494
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,000
things would invariably bring in
a heap of money into the country

495
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,080
as well.
But I would imagine that's

496
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,800
something they don't want to
play around with because, you

497
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,200
know, fighting against the likes
of a a Chevron and stopping the

498
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,320
the scale of those projects
could cause them a whole host of

499
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,880
problems.
When, you know, they look at

500
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,800
what's happening in the uranium
landscape and they see that, you

501
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,560
know, they own the vast majority
of the projects are in joint

502
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,640
venture with them.
That's something that they can

503
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,920
really tweak to increase the the
overall revenue for the

504
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,840
government.
I love, I love talking about

505
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,680
uranium because I feel at your
boys level.

506
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,640
Love it mate.
It's good for my confidence.

507
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,000
Yeah.
And not to mention like, so

508
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,360
there's, I think there's second
order impacts in some ways too,

509
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:30,200
if this disproportionately hits
the other commodities in

510
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,200
Kazakhstan.
So what you, I think you got a a

511
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,400
pretty established copper mining
scene there.

512
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,920
And I'm pretty sure that like
whenever you have these like

513
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,240
smelters, like, you know, a
nickel smelter, copper smelter

514
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,200
or whatever, one of the
byproducts is sulfuric acid.

515
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,920
Yeah, obviously that flows
through into the uranium sort

516
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:46,680
of.
Things as well.

517
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,360
Yeah, that's very interesting.
Love it.

518
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,040
I think we underestimated how
fucking big Kazakhstan is.

519
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,680
Like bloody huge.
Yeah, it's, you know, Australia.

520
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,880
We were, we were talking about
big, we were talking to someone

521
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,440
the other day who's like was
pretty bullish the mining regime

522
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,000
in Kazakhstan.
Now instead of saying it's

523
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,840
modelled off the West
Australian, you know, mining law

524
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,520
and everything like that.
But I don't think this is West

525
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,760
Australian mining law, no.
No, no, pretty interesting right

526
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:12,680
now, boys.
Take it away.

527
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,800
What's happening with IGIGO and
Wahlu?

528
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,720
This was a a bit of a quiet one,
but quite a sort of significant

529
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,760
announcement, I reckon.
So IGO and WAILU have agreed to

530
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,400
put on ice their Kwinana
ambition.

531
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,000
So they wanted to go downstream.
We spoke about it when we spoke

532
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,080
with the WAILU guys over a year
ago now.

533
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,880
And credit to the West, they
actually reached out and posed

534
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,000
the question.
IGO didn't say this publicly,

535
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,120
obviously, why lose privates?
They're not going to say

536
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,920
anything.
But a spokesperson for IGO said,

537
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,880
yeah, it's right.
We're essentially pressing pause

538
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,840
on on the plans at Kwinana.
Oh to be honest, I completely

539
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,040
fucking forgot it was even a
plan.

540
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,200
I hadn't been.
I haven't talked about it for

541
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,320
ages.
The pecan, the.

542
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,240
Yeah, the whole the.
The nickel side of things.

543
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:00,760
Nickel.
Died.

544
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,640
So we stopped.
Yeah, we totally.

545
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,560
Forgot they were even bloody
planning it, but yeah anyway, I

546
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,120
forgot for a reason 'cause
they're not doing anything now.

547
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,360
Yeah, you're, you're not the
only one.

548
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,120
So just to refresh people on
what they were trying to do,

549
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,760
they, they wanted to produce
this pecan, this precursor

550
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,000
cathode active material for
lithium batteries, which is

551
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,720
essentially just trying to
capture a bit more of the

552
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,600
downstream here in Australia.
It was all the sort of rage a

553
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,840
few years ago in a similar sort
of vein as building lithium

554
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,120
refineries and whatnot.
But like you quite rightly said

555
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,400
there, Maddie, this was for the
the nickel side of their

556
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,720
business and then on sale to
battery manufacturers.

557
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,800
So it was going to be a 7030 JV
between IGO and WAILU.

558
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,400
And then they actually wanted to
build, bring in, in some form of

559
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,720
ownership stake, a more
experienced mature battery maker

560
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,040
and they flagged a CapEx of 600
million to $1 billion.

561
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,800
They got a bit of land allotted
to them.

562
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,640
Now this is technically
challenging and obviously IGO

563
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,960
have had a fair few headaches in
their sort of technical

564
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,480
endeavours with Tianchi in
Kwinana nickel sulphate, which

565
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,920
is the sort of step before has
only really been done by BHB.

566
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,640
They did that for the first
time, you know, in Australia a

567
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,240
few years ago, doing this
process you can imagine would

568
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,120
have had a lot of sort of
teething issues, cost a lot of

569
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,760
money.
So probably is the right call

570
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,160
that they're pulling out of it.
Not not to mention that's not a

571
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,400
surprise Maddie, because where
would they get the feedstock

572
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,000
from?
They've they've shut down

573
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,720
Cosmos, you know, Nova's got a a
few years left in it.

574
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,880
Yeah, the assets are, yeah,
exactly like Mincore Wyloos

575
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,760
assets went on to care and
maintenance, you know, virtually

576
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,000
straight away as well.
So not a not a surprising

577
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,240
reaction by the the market at
all.

578
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,320
I'll be and I think it's who
they'd who they'd sell it to as

579
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,000
well.
Like, 'cause it sounds like once

580
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,280
BHP put that nickel sulphate
plan in, it was the whole idea

581
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:03,840
was that why would international
companies pay a premium for BHP

582
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,640
to convert it into sulphate when
they can just buy the bloody

583
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,800
powder or briquettes and do it
themselves?

584
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,160
And that was also, I don't think
they've word on the decline,

585
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,680
They haven't actually sold a
shit load of that sulphate.

586
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,280
Yeah.
So I'm not sure if pecan falls

587
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,200
in the same boat there or not,
but if it's integrated with a

588
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,400
battery facility in Australia.
But yeah, that's a big bloody

589
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,360
job.
Oh, you're dead right.

590
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,560
I mean, what we've heard is that
whatever BHB are doing down in

591
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,360
Konata has sort of been riddled
with challenges and is running

592
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,280
way, way, way below nameplate.
So not surprising.

593
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,080
And then you sort of see what
IGO the stock did today.

594
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,640
It was up a couple percent, you
know, pretty much and nothing

595
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,880
sort of move.
So not, not surprising at all.

596
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,120
But I do think there's a clear
message and I know Ivan would

597
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,000
have been speaking with all
these investors, getting his

598
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,120
sort of feed on the ground there
at Igo, speaking with the sale

599
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,920
side.
And I'm sure the feedback would

600
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,440
be that there is no appetite
from any of those shareholders

601
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,800
for them to go downstream and do
something they have no

602
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,880
experience in.
It is not one of their core

603
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,240
competencies by any means.
And clearly they've they've got

604
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,720
the message.
Although I find it interesting

605
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,600
that they didn't just come out
and say that.

606
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,520
I think that would have been a,
a check in the right box.

607
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,400
But who knows, maybe they were
planning to in the in the

608
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,120
upcoming quarterly or at the the
full year results.

609
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,400
I think this is like, like, you
know, you talk about IGO and,

610
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,400
and what like them shaping
themselves as a company in, in

611
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,440
the aftermath, Peter Bradford's
death and everything.

612
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,840
And like, this is just like an,
an easy win or it's, you know,

613
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,240
quick, quick, quick single for,
for valour to kind of take to,

614
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,520
to demonstrate that he's, you
know, listening to shareholders

615
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,040
and all that sort of stuff.
So I think like, yeah, I don't

616
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,280
think heaps of work was really
done on this PCAM thing, to be

617
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,400
fair.
It's just kind of like a

618
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,760
signalling that we're like, but
it's, it's like it's, it's what

619
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,960
what's it's signalling?
It's signalling that IG OS

620
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,840
listening to shareholders and
they're not going to like, you

621
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,600
know, just really nearly
allocate capital to places where

622
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,520
it's not getting an adequate
return for it's, you know, core

623
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,080
competencies.
Where have they done that in the

624
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,960
past?
Well, there's there's this,

625
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,040
there's the the, the lithium
refinery and there's the

626
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,960
expiration expenditure.
And you could also argue by the

627
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,960
whole nickel portfolio.
But yeah, so I just think those

628
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,320
are the things that are going to
be the talking points for for

629
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,040
them sort of going going forward
here.

630
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,200
Yeah.
And I think look, Oliver and

631
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,480
Valour has been given the, the
biggest corporate hospital pass

632
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,960
in, in history, like what he's
come into like in terms of what

633
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,800
the commodity prices have done
and what like the nickel

634
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,680
division pretty much being
disintegrated with Cosmos being

635
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,400
put on care and maintenances,
you know, all this sort of

636
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,880
stuff.
I think you'll be looking to

637
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,440
simplify and tidy up the
business.

638
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,600
This is one example of it.
And whether it's like divesting

639
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,520
some of these nickel things,
whoever wants to bloody buy

640
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,000
them, I'm not sure.
But like, I think there's a, a

641
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,120
bit of a, what would you, what
would you say a bit of real

642
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,600
identity, a new identity being
made for IGI.

643
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,560
Can think of one that would give
that a run for its money for the

644
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,000
biggest hospital hospital past
the the unfortunate CEO that

645
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,880
came in at Mincore about six
months before.

646
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,560
You know, they, Oh well, they
got the outcome they got.

647
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,000
The oh, that was, I guess she's,
she's the head of parenthood

648
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,800
here.
Yeah, yeah.

649
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,800
That was a that was a tough six
month gig there.

650
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,360
But you know, where do they
gonna go?

651
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,360
I think that's the, the right
question to ask at IGO.

652
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,560
And we've, we've heard some sort
of word on the decline that

653
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,800
there's a, a bit of a shuffle
going around.

654
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,400
Like you sort of point out,
Trav, we're talking about the

655
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,360
exploration budget, the team,
the corporate team, you know,

656
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,920
potentially a few jobs getting,
getting trimmed at, you know, it

657
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,600
wouldn't be surprising.
I think if you look at Cosmos,

658
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,480
they're, they're through the
worst of it in respect to how

659
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,840
much capital they're sort of
wasted.

660
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,520
I don't think too much more, you
know, they're going to spend I

661
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,120
think 12 to 15 per annum on, on
care and maintenance.

662
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,000
Then you've got these, you know,
lumpy cheques coming from green

663
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,720
bushes.
I'll, I'll rattle off the last

664
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:06,320
four quarters.
You can just sort of get a feel

665
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:12,400
for it. 577 million, $0.25
million and 160 million.

666
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,240
So they need.
To get they're not offered 70s

667
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:17,800
again.
Yeah, that sort of leads me to

668
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,400
my point is they shouldn't have
any high expectations that

669
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,480
they're going to get 577 in 1/4
anytime soon.

670
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,200
And you know, they've been
criticised for a while at at

671
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:29,600
green bushes.
Obviously they're they're not

672
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,760
the operators there, but things
just haven't been up to scratch.

673
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,440
There was that sort of
independent report that was was

674
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,200
done on green bushes that we
spoke about about a 1/4 or so

675
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,440
ago.
And you can see just very

676
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:47,360
mediocre recoveries in the in
the sort of low 60s OpEx jumped

677
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,880
in the last quarterly.
I note that Talison now has a

678
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,800
new CEO, so I'm sure all the
parties there will be hoping

679
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,120
they can, you know, fine tune
things, get things going again.

680
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,760
They're talking or talking about
CapEx with this 4th concentrator

681
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,840
and a tailings retreatment
plant.

682
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,160
I mean, the, the fact that
you're going to have a tailings

683
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,800
retreatment plant is a bit of an
indication that the plant hasn't

684
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,560
been operating superbly and
there's a bit going through the,

685
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,640
the wrong end out the wrong end.
So maybe fixing recoveries can

686
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,280
lead to some sort of change in
CapEx plan, but I think that is

687
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,400
a a bit of a long shot at the
minute.

688
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,000
Any any time you're thinking of
bloody spending CapEx, that's a

689
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,120
that's a call to Maddie all like
it is.

690
00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:31,200
That's the first, first port of
call.

691
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:34,720
Those bloody those get wet
bladders would be freaking good

692
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:36,240
for.
They're great for a temporary

693
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:38,560
bloody construction water
solution.

694
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:39,840
Like when?
You and after.

695
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,120
You're doing any expansions?
After the battle scars are, you

696
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,920
know, wasting all that money on,
you know, CapEx at Cosmos here

697
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,440
getting a bladder, you can just
roll it up.

698
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,200
If you put it in the wrong spot,
like they'll probably invariably

699
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,520
do at IGO, well then just Chuck
it in the news.

700
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,280
Spot the trouble is IGO is not
they're not they're not operator

701
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,160
right, but maybe they can just
blow a big bladder up and just

702
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,320
drop it off it at Greenbush is
just protest for the fact that

703
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,080
they're not operated just a just
a bloody.

704
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:05,440
Use this guy.
They could.

705
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,240
They should.
Trojan horse hide themselves in

706
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:08,280
it.
Yeah, they could paint.

707
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,040
They could draw a sign on it.
You could paint the great wet

708
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,760
bladder with a big IGO logo.
We are here.

709
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,440
We know it would last.
Like trying to get so yeah,

710
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,040
trying to warranty off the
beach.

711
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,480
Yeah, yeah, same thing. 3030
years, Trav how?

712
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,520
How long is it?
It's a giant warranty.

713
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:24,960
At least.
Maybe three.

714
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,440
I think the things the things
last forever.

715
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:28,960
We're just talking about the
warranty here.

716
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,760
Drive a bloody truck into it.
You'd have no luck popping the.

717
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,480
Thing oh mate, I'll I'll look at
Maddie Hall and get wet.

718
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,720
They're like a Lotto ticket like
you got to his numbers in the

719
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:41,880
show nights Lotto ticket.
You buy one every week.

720
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,600
Just call Maddie Hall every
week.

721
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,360
Some weeks you won't win but
jeez, when you win, you win big

722
00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:50,320
and that's what get Wet does.
They're like a bloody Lotto

723
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,960
ticket and like mate, you might
call him and you didn't even

724
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,120
realise that you needed him
until you call him.

725
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,800
So I can give.
Yourself.

726
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,680
What that idea the the IG big
IGI logo on a get wet bladder.

727
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,480
I reckon that'd bloody.
That'd work. 30 years.

728
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:07,920
It'd be there.
Like a pinata.

729
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:09,680
Yeah.
What?

730
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,200
Free advertising on Google Maps
every time you sort of zoom.

731
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,280
Into the Southwest.
A good idea actually.

732
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,600
What about, what about the broad
broader lithium mark and

733
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,160
looking, looking inside out, JD?
Yeah, these are the two

734
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:24,360
sentences I've contributed
today.

735
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,720
You're on fire.
So, so like, yeah, there's some

736
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,520
some bearish sentiment out
there.

737
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,240
In fact it was I think last week
the Fast Markets conference was

738
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:38,360
on super recent and there's this
like article on Fast Markets

739
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,320
website which summarises the
themes of the the conference.

740
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,160
I'll read out the most
interesting excerpt to me.

741
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,560
Rising African spot mean supply
adds pressure to lithium market

742
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,440
Africa will become more and more
important in terms of lithium

743
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,840
supply, further adding pressure
to an oversupply market.

744
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,040
Some major lithium producers
have established vertically

745
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,920
integrated mine projects in
Zimbabwe, including and there's

746
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,520
like 4 Chinese names I'm going
to struggle to pronounce.

747
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,600
Some sources expect more supply
to be released from these

748
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,800
projects later this year.
So it just sounds like there's

749
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,760
no kind of end insight for the
like, for the, for the new more

750
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,960
and more lithium production
coming online and that, that

751
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,080
supplies is outpacing the, the
uptake of demand at this point

752
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,560
in time.
And, and even though you've had

753
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,960
prices subside, like there's
just continual growth in, in

754
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,520
this new supply coming online,
be it like we, of course, we

755
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,360
know about Pig and Gore's
expansion.

756
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:34,480
We we know about like Gulaminas,
Matt, Matt Holland's coming

757
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,200
Holland, Yeah.
And then there's like the

758
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,440
Zimbabwe stuff, which no one
ever knows anything about until

759
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,680
you read something like this and
you're like, jeez, vertical

760
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,280
integration just scares you a
little bit when you see that.

761
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:49,400
And and to think out the the
lithium industry is maturing as

762
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,160
well in knowledge.
So like new supply will come on

763
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,080
a lot easier than it did three
years ago.

764
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,560
Yeah, because we're getting a
lot of the world will be getting

765
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,920
better at it as well.
So it's could really fill the

766
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,640
void a lot quicker.
All the existing OPS, they're

767
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,200
getting bigger, not not smaller
recoveries over time are, you

768
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,000
know, trending as they should be
upward as well.

769
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,720
So I can't think of another sort
of commodity retreat where

770
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,360
supply has just continued at
such a such a strong pace.

771
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,120
Yeah, yeah.
It's just as we always say it's.

772
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:24,360
Branded.
I've got pretty limited

773
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,760
experience.
It's bloody abundant, it's

774
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,880
abundant, it's everywhere.
It's like gold.

775
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,120
There's lithium everywhere you
just go.

776
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,440
Just like gold, you just go pick
it up by the hand full.

777
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,520
Yeah, mate, just there's no
shortage.

778
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,160
Of go down your local Creek and
pan something.

779
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,440
Yeah, mate, handsome spawn.
And then there was some

780
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,760
interesting sort of news from
Tianchi and the the Chinese

781
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,640
players as well, right, Trev?
Yeah, and that, I mean, look, IG

782
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,640
O's partner there, Tianchi,
obviously they own their fair

783
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,600
chunk of green bushes as well,
but Tianchi warns of $670

784
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,880
million plus loss over lithium
price.

785
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,600
Bunch.
Fuck Tianti, right Tianti?

786
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,640
UUS Bucks.
US bucks, I mean, yeah, it's

787
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,200
kind of staggering when they're,
they are the the operator of the

788
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,400
world's lowest cost lithium mine
and they're staring down, yeah,

789
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,640
pretty chunky loss.
They've got a lot more parts to

790
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,320
their business than just, you
know, mining the stuff.

791
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,000
But it's a pretty scary
proposition when you when you

792
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,480
read that.
And it's, it's a Chinese company

793
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,600
and it's, I don't know, it's
just, it's just staggering, I

794
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:24,600
think.
Yeah.

795
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,560
It's funny when you look at
who's got, you know, good

796
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,320
exposure to it.
Like you forget about Albemarle

797
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,200
owning 49% of green bushes.
Like, you know, they've

798
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,840
obviously probably tidying
themselves up a bit after all

799
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,280
the Bania not bloody buying
Lontown and everything of they.

800
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,840
Have to they have to
recapitalize the business.

801
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,440
Yeah, they've got, yeah, their
balance sheets, like pretty,

802
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,840
pretty busted up in a lot of
ways.

803
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,160
And who's got the most exposure
to the best one in the world?

804
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,200
It is Albemarle, yeah, but
they've got a lot of other shit

805
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,680
as well.
Yeah, yeah.

806
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,200
And Gang Gang Fang too.
Add to that that list of

807
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,240
struggling Chinese players,
Trav, they're down 30% for the

808
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:07,360
year.
They announced that they'd have

809
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:14,160
1/2 year loss just like Tianchi,
sort of circa US $200 million.

810
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,880
So bad day all round for players
in the in the lithium market.

811
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,920
Well, I think they're like, I
looked at their graph last

812
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,280
night, they're going from like
80 down to 18 like Gang Fang.

813
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,000
Yeah, haemorrhaged like over the
not over this year, over the

814
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:33,440
from the highs.
But yeah, they've just been

815
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,400
haemorrhaged.
Tianchi year to date down 45%.

816
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,560
So a bit of a, a tough ride.
So to, to sort of bring it back

817
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:46,640
home to IGO, I kind of had two
questions for where they are

818
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,920
right now.
And one of them sort of relates

819
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,000
to Quinana and the downstream
lithium refinery there.

820
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,280
And this is related specifically
to Train 2.

821
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,120
So obviously they got train one
up and running to a small

822
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,520
extent.
It's not exactly been a glowing

823
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,520
success and the indications are
that they're going to press go

824
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,240
on train 2.
FID was meant to come through in

825
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:10,200
the first half of this calendar
year.

826
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,560
So that's that's been and gone
hasn't happened.

827
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,920
Not surprising in the face of
the the lithium conditions that

828
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,640
we've just mentioned there.
Obviously, you know, I'm not a

829
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,280
industrial chemist.
I don't exactly understand where

830
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,520
the problems are derived from in
the plant there, but it would

831
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,680
seem puzzling that they'd press
go on train 2 without having

832
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,280
solved and shown to the market
that they can execute and

833
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,240
operate train one at a, you
know, a seriously higher

834
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:41,920
standard than where it's been
operating at the moment.

835
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,520
And I'll sort of caveat that
with the point that there was a

836
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:49,560
question in the recent call that
was answered with words to the

837
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,440
effect of perhaps having trained
2 could lead to more optimal

838
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,520
sort of outcomes and help the
sort of performance I'd have to

839
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,000
hear from the company.
They weren't exactly confident

840
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,680
in that either.
They said they're still doing

841
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,840
studies there to try and
understand it.

842
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,520
So they sort of left me with
more questions than I had

843
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,560
beforehand, but I'd expect a lot
of news to come out around this

844
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,080
one in the upcoming quarterly.
Question for you JD, are they,

845
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,640
are they in control of this
decision or is this decision

846
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,440
made in the in the joint venture
effectively by Tianchi?

847
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:24,960
I mean it is owned by TLEA so
4951% I.

848
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:26,760
Reckon that they're hamstrung
here too.

849
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:33,360
I, I dare say, but you know,
they, they have a, a board and

850
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,200
how decisions are made there,
you know, I'm sure they have

851
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,840
their representation on that
board and they can have some

852
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,440
sort of influence about how they
go about it.

853
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,280
And does Tianchi want to just
piss away money as well?

854
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,040
I don't think so.
Well, yeah, it's just it's like

855
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,160
they he actually has been
pissing away money.

856
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,880
If they're looking at the barrel
of losing 650 million

857
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,720
themselves, this, this half.
And sometimes, sometimes there's

858
00:44:57,720 --> 00:44:59,680
like a strategic rationale for
that, right?

859
00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:01,200
And it's kind of like, yeah,
yeah.

860
00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:03,120
If.
If that's the strategic

861
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,080
rationale, then so be it.
I mean at at the end of the day

862
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,640
that they are 49% owners.
So I don't think they have the

863
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:15,520
final decision, but who knows,
I'm sure they can sort of push

864
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,120
their weight around a little
bit.

865
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,800
And then the the second kind of
question which I think we

866
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,360
alluded to in the last week or
so, I can't quite remember is

867
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,040
are they going to do any more
M&A And definitely that's that's

868
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,640
a pretty open, yeah, that that's
an open ended question.

869
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,760
Will that be a development type
play?

870
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,520
Would that be a producing mine?
What sort of jurisdiction would

871
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,080
that be in?
They're very much AWA centric

872
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,640
player.
And maybe the most exciting

873
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,200
question, what commodity will
they get involved with?

874
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,000
So they've had gold in the past,
nickel, obviously lithium.

875
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:51,280
Now Ivan, the the new CEO, he's
operated in iron ore, copper, a

876
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:56,080
big sort of stint with Oytogo,
coal and aluminium.

877
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:00,280
And you know, if they are to
diversify, I think the, the

878
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,640
first sort of commodity that
comes to a lot of people's mind

879
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,600
is copper.
But if you, if you actually kind

880
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,360
of think through it, I don't
really see it.

881
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,560
Like every man and their dog has
been looking for a great copper

882
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:14,200
asset for a number of years.
I don't see IGO having, you

883
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,160
know, phenomenally deeper
pockets or make more expertise

884
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,760
or anything.
I can't see them going to Zambia

885
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:24,200
or Peru or wherever and and
picking up an asset.

886
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,880
So that kind of leaves me
thinking, I don't know, do they

887
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,640
do they double down on lithium
where they have, you know,

888
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,760
hopefully picked up a bit of
expertise along the way.

889
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,920
I'm not sure what, what sort of
thoughts do you guys have on the

890
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,360
M&A approach that that IGO might
bring to the market?

891
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,960
Yeah, I, I doubled down on
copper.

892
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,640
I take the other side of you
because they they do have

893
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,320
funding capability.
They can, they can borrow a lot

894
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,480
of money if they they wanted to,
they could raise equity as well.

895
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,120
And I think they would like if
they actually have a negative

896
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,360
outlook on on lithium for
longer, then maybe they want to

897
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:04,000
use their script while it's
valued highly and just like you

898
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,280
know, overpay for a for a copper
asset in some way, shape or

899
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,240
form.
Where do you think they'd?

900
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:11,680
Go.
That's the hard question.

901
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,440
I reckon they're going to the
West Toronto.

902
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:19,360
For, for, for what sort of
asset?

903
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,960
Well they own what are they
major share top shareholder in

904
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:29,360
an encounter and this is an
opportunity for them to reinvent

905
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,800
themselves.
Imagine if they went for WA1.

906
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,800
Ding, Ding, Ding.
Ding Ding, Ding.

907
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:37,920
Why?
Because what where would you go

908
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:39,960
for?
Like as you said, it's you can't

909
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:41,880
they're not going to go small
scales, copper.

910
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:46,000
They'd have to go like a what's
that one is a caravel or the one

911
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,200
in WI, the bloody big large.
So they'd have to look at a.

912
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,480
Big then your CapEx is horrible
on, yeah, on that thing exactly,

913
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,560
I reckon.
They need a big project.

914
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,480
There's one deal that solves all
their problems in my opinion,

915
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,080
and I've talked about it on
yesterday's interview, which

916
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,440
we're going to air tomorrow.
But it's mate, oh, Mack, buy,

917
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,280
buy, Mack pay, pay a premium for
it.

918
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,240
And then let me crown the pro
forma.

919
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:12,120
And I know, I know Ivan's new
and he's just getting some like

920
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:13,480
runs on the board and all that
sort of stuff.

921
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:18,040
But Mick has a lot more history
creating shareholder value over

922
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,920
the long run and let him run an
enlarged vehicle that has more

923
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:22,880
funding capability.
You can do some real creative

924
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,200
funky M&A.
And then you've you know, you've

925
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,080
got your proper battery metals
kind of vehicle, you're

926
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,640
cooperated to the bar.
And yeah, I reckon that would be

927
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,560
much more exciting IGO is if it
if it was and we know IGO wanted

928
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,600
to buy Mac like that would be
pseudo underbidder of of that

929
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,320
asset, you know, back in the
day.

930
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,200
Yeah, that's that's that's the
deal that solves IGOI think.

931
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,080
Right, I'm going WA one.
You'll go on Mac.

932
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:51,360
Yeah, we've got a carton on.
I I bet in the in the next year

933
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,560
there won't be a deal.
I reckon we'll see him get rid

934
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,880
of some stuff anyway.
I reckon, I reckon though they

935
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,680
there will be like real
attempted deals, just.

936
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,320
Yeah.
And like remember when Fifty

937
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,080
said the status quo is not an
option?

938
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,560
It just rings true.
I just think like there's very

939
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,320
few companies out there that are
hungrier and may be willing to

940
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,200
pay as much for a copper asset
as IGO.

941
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,680
And that's the that's what it
takes to, you know, maybe get a

942
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,520
deal done even if it's not the
best asset or for prices too

943
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,840
high.
Yeah, I do.

944
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,000
I do think you're right.
I do think they're hungry.

945
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,280
I just think getting a deal done
is is phenomenally hard and the

946
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,560
copper space is probably more
picked over than than any other

947
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,640
commodity out there.
So it just makes it a bit hard.

948
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,640
But Maddie, I love your sort of
out the box thinking.

949
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,600
That's certainly not what I've
thought of.

950
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:49,520
All that or tell for Haver on
Here's another one who knows who

951
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,000
knows who knows it's.
Recorded.

952
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,360
Maybe Ivan does.
Ivan, give us a buzz.

953
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:57,800
No, you can't do that, can you?
No.

954
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:58,680
You can't.
That's right.

955
00:49:58,680 --> 00:49:59,400
You can give us a buzz.
Can.

956
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:00,680
You tell us what you're looking
at.

957
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,280
Just come on for a chat I'd
actually.

958
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,000
Be come on for a chat.
Hi, Tim Hoffs.

959
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:11,920
Just walk in the door.
Right?

960
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,400
Good stuff.
Bloody what?

961
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,520
I was gonna I was gonna say
something, but I don't know.

962
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,000
I'm sure it was good.
Gotta thank the the bloody

963
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,000
partners.
I do, I do have to do that now.

964
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,000
Fuck it.
Good are they?

965
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,880
Geez.
Tell you what, since Axis Miner

966
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,280
Technologies come on board, I've
got a new lease in my life.

967
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,640
Bloody love it champ.
Gyro Champ Ori.

968
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,440
Give him a buzz.
Driller and Geos best friend.

969
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,680
The only time it's okay to say
the word champ in Australia.

970
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,160
Yeah, I know some people really
hate that.

971
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:40,840
Are you a person that hate it?
Really.

972
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,560
Yeah, I've worked with the guy
in Queensland.

973
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,080
He says if anyone, like, would
literally want to punch someone

974
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:47,160
if they called him Champ.
Yeah.

975
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:53,920
So what did I do?
Sorry Champ right MMS the

976
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,240
preferred mining contractor
verify get wet solutions DSI

977
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:04,120
underground Silverstein CR
insurance WA water bores they

978
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:09,800
might be actually called WA
uranium in the future WI uranium

979
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,960
drilling but anyway and Kay
drill and our goods a bloody

980
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,280
spark chart great collage of
spark at the start.

981
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,440
Odoro Moneyminders Information
contained in this episode of

982
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,800
Money of Mine is of general
nature only and does not take

983
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,320
into account the objectives,
financial situation or needs of

984
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,000
any particular person.
Before making any investment

985
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,080
decision, you should consult
with your financial advisor and

986
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,240
consider how appropriate the
advice is to your objectives.

987
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,360
Financial situation and 8.