The Uranium Deal 10 Years in the Making (Brandon Munro)

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The Chinese state apparatus is
not going to put themselves at

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risk of investing hundreds of
billions of dollars going from

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2% of their grid being nuclear
to something more like 15 or 20%

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of their grid if they don't have
100 years of uranium to make

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sure that they're not going to
get screwed by the rest of the

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world.
Jonas It's been a long time

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since we've talked about
uranium, but we haven't stopped

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paying attention to the sector.
We're curious.

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We are.
We find a riveting.

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It's just often, I don't know,
there's something, there's

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something that stops us from
kind of going deep on anyone

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story, be it a whole host of
reasons.

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And just a couple of weeks ago,
a deal popped up and I was

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excited because it's the first
uranium company deal I've seen

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in ages.
It wasn't an equity raising.

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So, so to kind of really check
out what's going on, I'm of

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course talking about Batterman's
deal with CNNC to to

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effectively, you know, well CNC
is acquiring a stake in

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Batterman's project and that the
development of the T8 is all

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steam ahead to talk about it.
We've got Brandon Monroe in just

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a moment who we ask some really
interesting questions about

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uranium and the sector.
Yeah. 100% I really enjoyed this

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one Brandon is a is a guy who's
lived in Namibia for for a

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number of years, has been
involved in the uranium space

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for ages, been involved with the
WNA deeply, deeply experienced

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when it comes to the space and
he's been on this Bannerman

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journey specifically for 10
years.

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The transaction itself has been
underway for, for a long time.

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So we get into to all of that
and I'm sure all EU balls out

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there will, will love it.
And people, you know, more

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broadly interested in their, in
the commodity market, like all

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the money miners are going to
get a kick out of it because

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there's so many fascinating
layers about cycles in, in

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commodities and getting a deal
done and all these sorts of

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things.
So I'm I'm pumped to share it

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mate.
Mate, this one, this one's

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brought to you by our good
friend Derek Hurd at Sandvik

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Ground Support, Sandvik.
Grounds Euro man.

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Billion EUR, I keep calling it a
billion dollars.

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You know what I'm I'm excited
about are lots of things, but

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Sandvik ground support, they are
reliable.

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They're reliable that we're
going to plug them on our

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podcast just like it's reliable
kit that is going to keep the

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ground supported no matter the
minds are all over the world.

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All over the world.
Yeah, all over the world.

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Make underground minds
everywhere utilising Sandvik

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ground support because it's
reliable.

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And you know what mate, I think
we're going to see the Billion

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Dollar Man in a couple weeks
time.

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In a couple weeks time, here we
go.

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Thank you Sandvik.
And let's go to Brandon Monroe

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from Bannerman.
Brandon, hot off the heels on a

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enormous deal with CNNC and
just, you know, coinciding with

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the uranium market coming to
life and believe it or not, you

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and your your description and
you're laying of the land of the

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uranium world about 7 years ago
was my introduction to uranium.

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So when I was just starting out,
Trevor and I just started

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working together and you were
giving a presentation you

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running Bannerman obviously, and
John Borshoff there as well.

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And this is the first time I
learnt about this macro cycle

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that we're on the cusp of.
We're 2019, uranium's starting

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to find its way up.
And yeah, here we are.

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I didn't.
Even know about this?

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Yeah, here we are seven years
later, uranium spot is called 90

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bucks and and term is in and
around there and spot and yellow

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cake are gobbling up more and
more uranium by the day.

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So I'm very excited for this
conversation, appreciate you

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making the time to join us.
Yeah, it's great to be on the

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pod, guys.
Back in those days, 2019 uranium

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spot price would have been below
$30.

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Yeah, yeah.
It's come a long way.

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It was dire and you'd you'd see
these sort of broker notes and

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some of them might be a bit
bullish and right you.

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Know broken nose.
No one was covering it mate.

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They were.
They were just.

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Broken.
Nose.

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Broker individual chores and,
and they're right, you know,

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maybe 45 bucks long term price
or 50 and they get the headshot

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off these sorts of things.
So the world has come a long way

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since then, hasn't it?
Yeah, it sure has.

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It's that they were the days
when we were deep in the shadow

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of Fukushima.
And it wasn't just the fact that

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the commodity itself was going
through a cyclical downturn.

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It was that that's so many
cycles in this sector that in a

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downturn become a reinforcing
vicious cycle.

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Now, what's really interesting
and the reason I'm quite a fan

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of this history from that era is
because those cycles, in most

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cases, they reverse and they
become virtuous cycles.

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So the perfect example is the
contracting from Fukushima,

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because the producers were all
contracted and therefore

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protected from declining prices.
They just kept pushing the

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material out.
It was really only two beginning

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of 2017 when Khazadamprom eased
back a little bit on the pedal,

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they didn't have that kind of
contract protection.

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And then 2018 as when Kamiko
started making changes to their

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supply.
But really all that that did was

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that just elongated the impacts
of Fukushima.

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So a demand event became a
demand and a supply event

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because there was no appropriate
supply response 'cause everyone

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who was producing was either
protected or they were Kazakh.

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Yeah, it's it's wild.
I think MacArthur River from

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from getting the the names right
got shut down in and around that

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time maybe 2018.
I want to say correct.

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And to your point that that is 7
years after Fukushima had

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happened.
It was a a very slow burn as the

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as the cycle started to to
churn.

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And it was a wild move for
Camico in those days because

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because of that contract
protection, they were able to

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buy in the spot price, deliver
into their contracts and make

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better money than they could
depleting the minor.

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That's a crazy time.
That only works for a period of

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time.
And and now that literally

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happening in reverse now before
our Isos, that supply response

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has now gone 180, but we've
still got the suppression in

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place because of that lack of
investment over that entire

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period.
Such, such is the nature of the

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beautiful cyclical businesses
that we, we pay attention to.

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It is, it's funny kind of
overlaying Bannerman's like long

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term share price over, over this
cyclical period.

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Because, you know, even even
though the, the, the company's

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just just done a deal at a, at
a, at a relative, you know,

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high, high price, you zoom out
and 2007 is still a long way

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down, right?
The the, the, the horrendous

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impacts of dilution through a
long and enduring bear market.

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Don't kind of yeah, don't don't
fare well for for an undeveloped

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project that needs to progress
things over time.

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I know your history doesn't
extend all that way back.

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Brandon with with Bannerman.
It's it's it's more recent, but

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but but the company has like a
bunch of like, you know, lore

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around that.
I would I would describe yeah,

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you you talked about your early
experiences.

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JDR.
I remember like first first

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hearing about Bannerman and just
just being informed of how many

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how many how many studies the
the like there's there's

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probably no no company with more
feasibility studies on the same

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asset.
In fact, back in the day tango,

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it was only a quarter tango.
When did it become a T8?

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I'm not sure but I thought to
myself maybe it's become a T8

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because there's been 8
feasibility studies on this

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thing.
Then I counted them before

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recording this.
It's actually 9.

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It became a T8 because we made
it smaller, so in our defence,

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and it's a fair poke, but in our
defence we really changed the

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mine plan and the whole
development pathway.

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It was an enormous development,
20 million tons per annum

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throughput, moving 85,000,000
tons per annum of dirt.

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Now for an open pit mine, that's
not just iron ore stripping,

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that's pretty big
internationally, Namibia does

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open pit really well.
So it is the right environment

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to tackle a project like that.
That looked great.

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Before Fukushima, the world was
crying out for uranium.

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We were going to produce £7.2
million per annum.

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That was going to easily find a
home.

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And then Fukushima happened.
So the company produced an

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updated DFS, one of them in
2015.

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And then it was shortly after
that that I came into the

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company.
And really one of the

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breakthroughs that we had in
that period was defying the

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advice of the mining engineers
who told me if you want to make

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it cheaper, you go bigger still.
And we did work out that we

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could make it smaller and make
it modular.

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And the T8 is because we
decreased the initial

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development pathway from 20
million tons per annum to 8

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million tons per annum.
And we'll see in just about

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every note that came out.
And now you have multiple

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brokers covering you these days.
I think almost everyone on the

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back of this deal, which we're
obviously going to discuss in in

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a big way talking about, hey,
the capital's going to be there

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to look at the bigger.
You know, you have two studies

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that you've done. 1 is the the
longer mine life, one is the,

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the doubling of throughput to up
to 16.

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So I'm very keen to see how that
kind of lands as you guys

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regress the the early works that
you've kind of done over the

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past year and a bit and and get
into it.

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But let's talk about this deal.
It's a it's a belter.

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So as we mentioned before, CNNC,
the big Chinese state owned

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behemoth coming in and buying
what is effectively for 43 call

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it percent of the project.
We could see, you know,

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discussions have been away on
underway for for quite some time

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given the the cash they will
send your way to make up for

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their part of the the early
works.

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But give us the the quick one O
1 on on how this deal kind of

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came about.
How many other bidders were in

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the room that you were fending
off and what brings us up to to

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where we are today?
Yeah, thanks.

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Look, we're absolutely delighted
with the deal and it won't

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surprise you to know that we've
had a bit of time to think about

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these things.
We've, we've in as part of our

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corporate strategy really we've
been considering amongst all of

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the various constraints how to
develop this asset as a single

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asset developer.
For most of that journey, the

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CapEx well exceeded our own
market capitalisation.

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And if I put that in context,
the original development CapEx

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with the larger project was
873,000,000 US.

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Now when I came in as CEO, we
were a $20 million company.

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So there weren't too many
options in those days, but

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things started to pick up and
the first step on that journey

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was we engaged some debt
advisors out of Sydney and we

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spent a year with them really
understanding what does a

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conventional project financing,
syndicated debt facility look

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like?
Where are the disadvantages for

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us?
Where is it going to make it

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hard slash impossible
realistically for a single asset

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developer to get started?
Now that was more than three

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years ago and that heavily
informed our thinking.

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Some of the aspects of this
business that we knew were hard,

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we knew were challenging just
came screaming home to bite us

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when we started to get this
analysis done.

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So you mentioned $45.00, which
is what found its way into many

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of the long term average price
targets.

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The problem is in those days, a
banking syndicate, just by the

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nature of the way they finance
things, there's a heavy recency

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bias and a heavy regression
aspect to how they price

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everything.
So anything that's not sold,

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they would put in at best $45.
And that's assuming they haven't

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got a look back over the last
five years that would have

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averaged it more like 3233.
So the first thing is it

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confirmed what we suspected,
which to go to a traditional

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syndicated finance, you've got
to be heavily contracted.

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And we understood at that point
that the market was still some

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way off producing the type of
market signals that would help

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us there.
But we also went deep into what

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covenants would look like, how
that would affect many of the

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aspects that have really gaining
prominence as advantages to this

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deal that we've just signed,
such as working capital and how

226
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,720
you interact between maintaining
financing covenants when you've

227
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,720
got a huge working capital draw
because of the way that

228
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,960
deliveries work in our sector
and how much flexibility the

229
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,280
customers have got as to when
they can ask for the product and

230
00:11:58,280 --> 00:11:59,760
when they have to pay for the
product.

231
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,600
So that was step one.
That was a year worth of work.

232
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:09,080
We also took the chance to use
that time to do a gap analysis

233
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,640
of not only the nine studies,
but also where we're at from an

234
00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,280
ESG point of view.
The original permitting for this

235
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,520
project had all been done
according to Equator Principles,

236
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,480
but they'd moved on since then.
So there was a fair bit of

237
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,360
infilling that was very valuable
for us.

238
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,880
This project, this process
itself started a bit more than

239
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:38,600
two years ago and the market at
that point hadn't really matured

240
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,480
enough for us to want to have
strategic financing

241
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,960
conversations.
It just wasn't enough tension.

242
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,480
We didn't like where the price
was at that point, but we were

243
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:52,760
starting to field enough inbound
inquiries, I suppose, inbound

244
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,760
interest that we decided to
formalise the process

245
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,640
recognising that if we were
going to deal with the preferred

246
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,160
partners, which weren't only
Chinese, but they tend to be

247
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,600
sovereign or SOS around the
world because of the nature of

248
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,840
our industry, it's always going
to take time.

249
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,880
So we formalized that a bit more
than two years ago, engaged Azur

250
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,800
and Vermilion partners via
Natixis, which has got a strong

251
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,920
French presence.
And between between that

252
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,400
organization, they gave us
coverage in everywhere except

253
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,840
Russia.
And that's when we started

254
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,400
working more earnestly on what
would a strategic financing

255
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,840
ultimately look like.
And then a little bit later in

256
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,160
that process, we then started to
firm up on a debt alternative.

257
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,880
It wasn't a typical syndicated
finance for the reasons that I

258
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:46,040
described, but we went to a very
credible, very experienced

259
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:51,640
resource debt provider who had
the most sophisticated view on

260
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,720
the uranium sector that we'd
come across.

261
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,840
And therefore they weren't going
to start dumping $45.00 into

262
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:58,920
their model for anything that
was unsold.

263
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,040
And what we came up with there
was a structurally very

264
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,880
attractive debt alternative
because it gave us a lot of

265
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,240
flexibility.
We could lock in the debt

266
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:14,440
facility without having any
minimum levels of contracting.

267
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,720
And then they would exist
basically as covenants as we

268
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,440
started to draw on the debt.
And given you've got to spend

269
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,440
your equity first, that would
have given us the time and the

270
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,840
flexibility to then fold in
contracts without being under

271
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,320
duress.
So that that was a well formed

272
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,120
alternative.
And that gave us the ability as

273
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:38,480
the NBIOS and as as started to
come in from various parties.

274
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:44,160
And as we developed a a clear
sense of what was available to

275
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,640
us in the strategic financing,
we were able to very quite

276
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,840
accurately compare it against
what does a debt and equity

277
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,800
scenario look for to develop the
asset in that way.

278
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,160
I.
Think that the, the, the, the

279
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,480
reality is to fund, you know,
the CapEx that's required your,

280
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,720
your alternative is project sell
down, which you've ultimately

281
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,840
chosen to do and have more
flexibility and freedom or, or

282
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,600
take on, you know, the, the,
the, the onerous, yeah,

283
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,080
covenants that come with the
more project finance kind of

284
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,000
perspective.
I am which which we say so, so

285
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,800
often kind of does a company
that is developing and has, has

286
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,560
has contractual commitments that
they've got to make with, with

287
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:26,840
counterparties that that aren't
flexible is there's yeah,

288
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,040
they're important kind of
trade-offs.

289
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,200
It's not just kind of cost of
capital.

290
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,960
I think the, the I got to, I got
to peel into this deal a bit

291
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,440
because you look at the region,
you look at maybe you look at

292
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,640
the neighborhood and from the
outside it sort of looks like

293
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,160
there's only ever really one
option here.

294
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,280
Like to, if you want to go into
development, which I, there's

295
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,080
debate about whether or not
going into development is the

296
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:51,800
right strategy because the
powers in the ground for longer

297
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,480
have more optionality.
And then B, if you do choose to

298
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,880
go into development, like is
there actually a credible

299
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,040
alternative to develop than
partnering with CNNC?

300
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,920
Yeah.
I mean, in Namibia, you have a

301
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,800
number of the majors in there.
There's two different Chinese

302
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,840
utilities.
The French are in there via

303
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,160
Rono.
We've seen Paladin being able to

304
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,520
equity fund now that that wasn't
entirely dissimilar when they

305
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,240
did that in 2000 and four, 2005
to where we find ourselves.

306
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:29,320
And the one boundary condition
that we put on this financing is

307
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,600
it just wasn't tenable for
various reasons to partner with

308
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,520
Russian entities.
But they're in Namibia.

309
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,560
So Namibia is very open to the
entire geopolitical spectrum.

310
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,240
It it's really just your pariah
states like Iran and North Korea

311
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,280
that they can't deal with.
So that does open it up.

312
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,560
The the other thing is not in
uranium, but in phosphate and

313
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,440
other minerals.
We've seen Middle Eastern

314
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,600
investment into Namibia, which
as you can imagine, the way

315
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:04,119
nuclear is progressing in ENEC
and what in Emirates and the way

316
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,240
that the Saudis are talking
about nuclear, it's also an area

317
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,480
that they will be investing in
going forward.

318
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,079
The off the offtake that
coincides with this deal, I

319
00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:18,960
think he's super interesting.
And Bannerman retains 40%.

320
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,720
But like the way I read this off
take is it's 40%.

321
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:28,760
So like the, the, the off take
commitment with CNNC, it's 60%

322
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,920
of actual production as opposed
to, I mean, I mean, we all know

323
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,760
there's like production that's
in the model and then there's

324
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,920
reality and there's often a lot
of discrepancy.

325
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:40,120
So the way I interpret the
there's, there's some kind of

326
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:43,440
alignment because they're,
they're the major off taker, but

327
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,520
they're also like a, an equity
holder of the JV And and hence

328
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,560
they're aligned to not want to
fix data in a certain quantity.

329
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,600
They, they have that alignment
to wanting the, the, you know,

330
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,800
what's actually coming out of
the ground a certain proportion

331
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,600
instead of wearing a potential
uncertain cost.

332
00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:04,360
And then but that that that
entire 60% is, is is market

333
00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:08,960
linked combination of of term
and and spot linked, if I, if

334
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:10,440
I'm not mistaken, correct.
Yeah.

335
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,200
Yeah, Yeah.
You've basically unpicked the

336
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,760
magic in this deal.
It's because our partner CNNC is

337
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:22,400
a 45% joint venture holder in
the JV code, there is another 5%

338
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,560
that's a local Namibian partner.
So hence the read through that

339
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,840
you talked about before.
So because they're a 45% holder,

340
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:34,960
they've been willing to grant
the JV an extraordinary level of

341
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,360
flexibility in this offtake.
And as a result of that, we were

342
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:41,360
happy to make it 60%
disproportionate to their 40

343
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,600
percent, 45% ownership.
And frankly, most companies

344
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,360
would be happy to make it 100%.
In our case, we wanted

345
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,000
diversification for obvious
reasons given where geopolitics

346
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,640
is at the moment, but also we
wanted to build a broader

347
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,720
uranium business.
And that's where the 40% that's

348
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,880
not sold to CNNC Group, that's
where that becomes really

349
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,680
important for us.
But you, you touched on what do

350
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:07,880
you?
Mean by that, a broader uranium

351
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,440
business.
This we don't want to be a

352
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,120
single asset producer forever.
We've we've got a broader

353
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,120
strategy.
We've got some very good

354
00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:20,400
capability in the organization.
We have executed a corporate

355
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,600
strategy where patience has I
think been rewarded and has

356
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,960
certainly produced appropriate
shareholder returns.

357
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:33,200
But with our primary asset
financed soon upon completion

358
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,560
and then into construction with
a relatively low risk operation

359
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,200
and profile that puts us in
great shape to build our

360
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,000
business further.
Now there aren't many companies

361
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,760
in the world who market uranium.
It's a very concentrated sector.

362
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:54,600
So to be to have a full scale
marketing capability coupled

363
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,800
with some of the smarts that we
believe we have, that puts us in

364
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,560
a really strong position to
partner with further assets, to

365
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,520
develop other assets, other
forms of corporate activity.

366
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:10,160
And you only have that value in
your business if you own those

367
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,720
customer relationships.
So it needs to be us, not the JV

368
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,280
code.
Now of course, we're doing it

369
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,800
for the benefit of the JV code
and it gives us a variety of

370
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,760
alternatives to if we really
like where we're seeing uranium

371
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,640
prices in a year's time, then
we'll start fixing some of those

372
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:32,240
using that, some of that 40%
given we've got so much at

373
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:38,160
market exposure of either 60%,
but it's this total control and

374
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:45,520
some really strong ring fencing
confidentiality and so on inside

375
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:50,560
Banneman that enables us to
effectively have that 40%

376
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,000
attributable portfolio that we
can market.

377
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,120
I think I know the answer to the
question I'm I'm about to ask.

378
00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:59,800
But do you think in building out
that business, there'll be any

379
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,920
kind of challenges you run into
being so linked with the Chinese

380
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,840
partner now?
We tested that a lot.

381
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,880
We tested it with investors, we
tested the concept more broadly

382
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,160
with customers.
You know, we, it was well known

383
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,600
that we're in a strategic
financing process.

384
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,720
And to your earlier comment,
Trev, you know, you, you only

385
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,280
need one hand to come up with
the obvious contenders being in

386
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,760
Namibia.
And because it's not majority

387
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,160
owned by a Chinese entity, our
feedback so far is that

388
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,480
utilities are comfortable.
Now we've got some work to do to

389
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,440
demonstrate just how thorough
that ring fencing is.

390
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,720
In many respects, they're
competitors.

391
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:44,280
So there was a, there was a lot
of attention during the

392
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,400
negotiations paid to ensuring
the integrity of those

393
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,600
confidentiality arrangements and
those ring fencing arrangements.

394
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,920
And it was a bit
counterintuitive to our

395
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,400
partners, right?
Because they're saying, well,

396
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,120
hang on a SEC, we've got a 45%
economic interest in what you're

397
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:02,600
selling and you won't even tell
us the terms on which you're

398
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,120
selling it.
And we said that's how it has to

399
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:07,280
be.
And I think, you know, a, a

400
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,960
genuine demonstration of the
trust and rapport that's built

401
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:16,560
up between US and, and the
executives at CNOL, they agreed

402
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,640
to it.
So, so you do probably about 10

403
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,720
years by yourself at the
company, you're in this sort of

404
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,400
sales process for two plus years
working away.

405
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,160
And then you come out with the
announcement a couple weeks ago,

406
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,600
understand it was very exciting,
which I want to talk about at

407
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:32,960
the site with analysts and
stuff.

408
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,960
But you come out with the
announcement in the evening and

409
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,720
the next morning and the market
just shits itself and the stock

410
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,080
is down like 1010%.
Called it a magic deal.

411
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,120
I don't think they might
interpret it as magic straight

412
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:45,560
away, but.
It was, it was a bad day all

413
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:46,960
around.
To, to, to be fair.

414
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,440
Thank you.
Yeah, that is, that is.

415
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,680
The benefit of the doubt there,
you know, in, in hindsight, it's

416
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,080
just another day in, in the
journey of building a company.

417
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,920
But how do you take the reaction
from the market and what was the

418
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,400
broader reaction from from
investors, from the brokers,

419
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,080
from the the whole white of that
investor community?

420
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,400
Yeah.
So look, on the day we traded in

421
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,840
line with our peers, if if you
were looking at your watch list

422
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,560
that day and you didn't see that
there's an announcement, you

423
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,160
would have, you wouldn't have
looked twice.

424
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,400
Straight away, I reckon early
market it you Batman LED, LED

425
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,440
down it recovered more yeah, in
the day in line with the years,

426
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,040
but straight away, yeah, I
think.

427
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,040
There was, yeah, there was an A
reaction a.

428
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,160
Reaction people immediately
backed out the implied, you

429
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,440
know, implied yeah deal value to
your market cap and thought well

430
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,960
this is kind of like neutral but
and there's new ones not every

431
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,160
deal it's the same yeah.
Yeah.

432
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,160
And to that point had factored
in perhaps a 30% sell down.

433
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,200
So do you think part of it was
on the the percentage you sold

434
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,560
down or how do you take it?
I think it was just a, you know

435
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,760
how markets are when there's
information that they haven't

436
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,040
unpacked, it tends to be a sell
first, ask questions later.

437
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,120
And part of the reason why we've
recovered since then and why

438
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:00,800
we're actually leading our peers
and we've significantly

439
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,480
outperformed our peers since
then, it's because key

440
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,520
shareholders on our register are
buying.

441
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,480
And I think that reaction that
we saw on that day is indicative

442
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,880
of a broader evolution of
understanding of this deal.

443
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,360
The initial reaction is question
marks.

444
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,880
It's question marks about the
degree of the sell down.

445
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,560
It's question marks about what
the implied valuation is because

446
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,960
of the the valuation that we use
to strike the investment into

447
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,320
the joint venture.
But my experience talking to

448
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,680
both shareholders and non
shareholder investors is just

449
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,960
with a little bit of
understanding about the deal and

450
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,200
what it delivers and how it
repositions us and effectively

451
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,600
transforms us as an investment
proposition.

452
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,400
It then switches very quickly to
positive.

453
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,680
So we're up about 15% from when
we announced the deal or when we

454
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,320
went into a trading halt before
the deal was announced.

455
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,200
Our peers are up anywhere
between, well, our peers are

456
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,440
anywhere between sort of -3 and
plus 10% over that period.

457
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,080
So this is a slow release
benefit for our company.

458
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,000
And there's a couple of key
reasons for that.

459
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,600
If you just purely look at it
from an investment perspective,

460
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,840
if you don't even try and worry
about what it does for the

461
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,720
business and how how it changes
the way that we can produce and

462
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,400
sell uranium into this market.
The single biggest challenge for

463
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:32,160
me talking about Bannerman since
we got our mining license

464
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,680
granted to us, was concerned
about a multi $100 million

465
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,720
overhang, an equity overhang.
I feel like I've been walking

466
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,240
through thick mud telling the
story ever since then.

467
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,320
And I'll get it right.
Like no one wants to start

468
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,480
laying down a position in a
company and then get hit from

469
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,160
behind.
And we've just raised or put

470
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,320
into the joint venture the
equivalent of 450 million bucks

471
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,160
and that's on as we stand today,
a 950 million market cap.

472
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,680
So there was still a lot to go
until last week.

473
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,680
Now you could couple that with a
bit of debt and we've talked

474
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,760
about some of the disadvantages
to that.

475
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,160
But even with a reasonable debt
burden there, there was still a

476
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,640
multi $100 million overhang on
our stock.

477
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,200
That will take time for those
perceptions and those concerns

478
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,800
to clear.
It's the nature of things.

479
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,400
And then the other one is we've
just, we transformed our risk

480
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:34,800
profile.
And I suppose when analysts put

481
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,600
out their reports, you know, for
a company like ourselves, they

482
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,400
don't grade us on risk.
So it's not thinking, they're

483
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,880
not going to say, right, this
has gone from a six out of 10 on

484
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,240
risk to a three out of 10.
But what it does do is it opens

485
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,840
up the number of investors who
will be comfortable with us.

486
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,120
And in particular, given our
market cap sits below a few of

487
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:56,800
our peers, we believe that it
will start to put us more in the

488
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,200
crosshairs of generalist
investors going forward.

489
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,000
And we're just breaking through
that billion dollar market cap,

490
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,280
which means increased liquidity
and increased opportunity for

491
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,440
some of those generalists.
There's there's a, there's a,

492
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,240
yeah, a few, a few ways I want
to go with this Brandon.

493
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,120
I hope, I hope we get to cover
them all.

494
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:19,640
But if I, if I think about the,
the JV dynamic in particular,

495
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,320
like we're, we're also
acquainted with certain JV

496
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,840
agreements that might exist
where with when you're in a JV

497
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,480
with in particular Chinese
parties and those JV agreements

498
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,560
are so onerous that in reality
you kind of just get vetoed for

499
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,240
the sake of it.
Like Igos kind of case in point

500
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,640
for this with a TLEAJV.
Now they that was a JV that they

501
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,680
signed because they wanted to
buy it into the asset.

502
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,200
And so, you know, chance you
kind of just dictated terms, as

503
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,560
I understand it in in this case,
Bannerman like maintains the

504
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,320
majority, you know, equity
ownership at at the project Co

505
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,080
level.
There's, there's effectively,

506
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,640
you know, an outnumbered number
of people on, on the JV go board

507
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,120
equal on the steering committee.
But but for all intensive

508
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:05,400
purposes, it seems like
Bannerman has the outnumbering

509
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,840
when it comes to voting.
Is there any, is there any

510
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,240
capacity like let's say you
didn't agree on something, is

511
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,640
there any capacity that we've
foreseen and say to to

512
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,520
effectively stalemate progress
in some way, shape or form here?

513
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,080
So one thing that's really
interesting with this deal and

514
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,520
I'll come back to answer your
question, but this is context.

515
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,480
It's useful to understand the
whole process.

516
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:31,640
CNNC, like many Chinese
companies, has got a very long

517
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,280
term outlook on this sector,
which is such a pleasure after,

518
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,960
you know, dealing with investors
with six weeks can be an awful

519
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,440
long time.
The the consequence of that is

520
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,240
effectively they're looking for
this to be AJV showpiece.

521
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,880
Their preference over time has
been majority ownership and

522
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,200
control and operatorship.
They did have an experience with

523
00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,280
Paladin which has had, you know,
a interesting history since they

524
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,160
invested in their 25% in
Paladin, which hasn't all been

525
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:09,040
positive over that journey.
And this was an unusual

526
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,920
transaction for them in that
they were going to be minority

527
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,240
partners and secondary partners.
Now it was the the result of I

528
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,600
think the respect that we've
developed for each other that we

529
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,360
could strike a deal like this.
And they came to understand that

530
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,600
this can be a showpiece example
of how they can partner with

531
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:33,400
companies and compete against
other nuclear players to

532
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,120
basically attract the off take
and attract the product.

533
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,840
And there's a number of ways
where that came through in a

534
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,800
sincere way in the negotiations.
Much to our surprise, I've got

535
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,560
to say we we've been nothing but
impressed with the executives

536
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,160
and the way that they've done
things throughout this entire

537
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,080
process.
So then it comes back to your

538
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,560
question, Trev, which is when we
said to them, you know,

539
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,200
investors will be looking at
this JV to find out where is the

540
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:07,240
pathway to control and we said,
so we don't want that.

541
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,240
They just understood the
implications and agreed.

542
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,800
So unlike a typical joint
venture where you would have

543
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,040
disproportionate funding
mechanisms which necessarily

544
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,320
lead you down a path to being
diluted, they agreed to take it

545
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,120
out.
There's a standstill in the

546
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,520
agreement, which is as strong as
you will ever see in these types

547
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,920
of documents.
And there's no other mechanism

548
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,520
where we can be diluted.
That's specified in the

549
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,920
agreement.
And the underlying principle

550
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:44,920
here is that apart from ensuring
that no one can be concerned

551
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,440
about a predatory risk here from
a much bigger, much stronger

552
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,960
partner, the underlying
principle is they want the

553
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,560
pounds out of the ground at
least as much as we do.

554
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:56,880
They need those pounds out of
the ground.

555
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,960
So some of the techniques that
an aggressive joint venture

556
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:04,880
partner might use, starving cash
flow, starving capital and so

557
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,080
on, that they just wouldn't be
effective.

558
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,960
And based on my relationship
with the people we've been

559
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,640
dealing with, I just don't think
that that's part of their

560
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,560
contemplation or part of their
playbook.

561
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:19,640
What was it?
What was it actually like to

562
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,440
negotiate with an SOE?
Like what are the nuances that

563
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,800
that are, you know, peculiar
about that sort of entity?

564
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,000
Oh God, it was fascinating.
We had very good advisors who

565
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,080
were able to really talk us
through the constraints.

566
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,960
You know, in many cases I felt
like they were negotiating

567
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,080
against their own organizational
constraints, particularly the

568
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,200
approvals, as much as they were
negotiating with us.

569
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,600
It's an SOE.
But isn't, isn't that just like

570
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,480
your classic?
Oh, you know, yeah, you're

571
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,960
negotiating with someone who's
got to go up the line themselves

572
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,200
and then in.
Yeah, in reality, they, they

573
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,520
they tell you that they are
trying to get but but they're

574
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,440
actually getting a win on you
because they're telling you that

575
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,360
they're trying to get an
approval from their head, the

576
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:03,240
person that's in charge of
their.

577
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,920
Negotiating one O 1.
This is classic Chinese as well,

578
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,080
so.
So let me just say, you know, we

579
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,200
had advisors and we had board
members who were waiting for the

580
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,280
waiting for the rub and we
didn't see it on.

581
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,520
It was a very respectful
negotiation where all of the

582
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,760
so-called Chinese games were
absent.

583
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,520
And I really mean that.
It was done very, very quickly

584
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,640
once we'd been able to agree key
terms astonishingly quickly.

585
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,320
Like I'd in in the various deal
making that I've done in my

586
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,680
career, I've never seen a
Western party move that quickly.

587
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:43,760
And they, they understood the
constraints that they were

588
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,880
under.
So we had a negotiation which

589
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,280
was quite intense that went for
several days where we were

590
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,480
working through everything.
So for example, they asked one

591
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,760
of their compliance people from
all the way up the tree to sit

592
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,520
in on that entire negotiation
because they knew having a

593
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,160
compliance person in the room in
addition to their lawyers and

594
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,720
their financial advisors and the
the various in house lawyers

595
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:10,320
that they had, that would just
smooth the path to having the

596
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,160
the agreement and the deal
approved all the way up.

597
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,800
So that's an example where at
times we felt like they were

598
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,160
playing their own system as much
as they were trying to negotiate

599
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:26,800
with us.
And I think one of the, the real

600
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,120
lessons from it is quite early
in the process because we,

601
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,760
because we had other
alternatives and, and we were in

602
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,880
a very different situation in
many parties who go to a big

603
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:44,160
joint venture partner for money,
we were very issues focused when

604
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,680
we were negotiating things.
So if something didn't work for

605
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,960
us, we would really work with
them to understand, well, what's

606
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,600
your problem with this?
And so we in very early in the

607
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,640
negotiation, we got away from
the idea of just saying no to

608
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,600
each other.
We would go through the process

609
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:04,120
of explaining and they had, they
had Canaccord advising them in

610
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,640
Beijing and that was a huge
advantage because they trusted

611
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,080
their Canaccord advisor.
And if he said to them, yeah,

612
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,360
what they're saying about the
way the market will interpret

613
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,719
that is correct.
And that was kind of the end of

614
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,400
the discussion.
They said OK, so now we

615
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:18,840
understand that you've got a
problem with that.

616
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,000
Let's see how we can fix it.
I think it was, I think it was

617
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,600
Bill Beaman that said a while
ago that JVS always start

618
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,280
fantastic and they always end
like shit.

619
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,120
It really made me laugh.
But it does, you know, seem if

620
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,280
you can line every incentive
impossible, then then you can

621
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,760
get as as close as possible to
to to a great outcome.

622
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,480
I'm really curious in tying up
this relationship, though,

623
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,719
Brandon, why is now the the
right deal?

624
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,120
Trev made reference before to
the the pounds in the ground

625
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,719
strategy.
There's various incarnations of

626
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,400
that that have been pretty
effective in in the uranium

627
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:53,840
land.
Everyone's going to comp this to

628
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,360
deep yellow strategy of just
kicking the can down the road.

629
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,200
Yeah, so why now?
Why?

630
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,560
Why is now the right time?
We've had a view on the sector

631
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,120
that has been pretty nuanced and
pretty sophisticated.

632
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,480
And you know, before we got on
air, we talked about some of my

633
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,760
background here that's enabled
us to call it right so far.

634
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,640
And we just see a real crunch
point coming in, in 20292030.

635
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,280
This market will overshoot.
There's a bunch of structural

636
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,560
reasons why it will to support
that assertion, not only because

637
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,560
most commodity markets do
overshoot anyway.

638
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,280
And we took the decision about a
year ago that we wanted to keep

639
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,680
moving the project forward.
So we would be amongst it and we

640
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,560
would be putting those market
conditions into a bank account,

641
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,000
not into a spreadsheet.
So we started with the early

642
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:43,920
works development and it's been
quite extensive on site what

643
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,560
we've done.
We were lucky because that early

644
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,680
works a lot of it was low on
CapEx but very consumptive of

645
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,680
time.
So we were able to chew months

646
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,000
and months and months with our
of the construction timeline

647
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,800
with our cash balance.
But we're starting to push

648
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,840
against the point in the
construction time frame where it

649
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,160
starts to become expensive.
It starts to be big leaks of

650
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,720
capital.
And if you pause the project at

651
00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:13,920
that point, history tells us
that they the CapEx becomes more

652
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:19,720
difficult to control your
legally binding responses to

653
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:22,520
contract tenders and so on, they
lose their validity.

654
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,640
So there's the opportunity to re
cut and and if there is

655
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,080
inflation in the local
environment, it can find its way

656
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,720
in.
But fundamentally we think that

657
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:37,240
we by being a producer and
selling pounds into 202920302031

658
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,560
that will overwhelmingly produce
a better outcome for

659
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,600
shareholders than being than
basically writing the

660
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,880
spreadsheet.
When you, when you say it all

661
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,920
overshoot, do you effectively
mean there will be a point where

662
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:52,520
we inevitably end up bringing
too many pounds on the market

663
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,680
and we'll have another boom bust
kind of dynamic?

664
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,640
You want to capture the boom,
but you know, yeah, before,

665
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,840
before an ultimate bust in the
in the future.

666
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:01,440
Yeah.
I mean, that's, that's always

667
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,600
the potential in any commodity,
but there's so many constraints

668
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,680
on uranium that in the same way
that post Fukushima the price

669
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,880
didn't address the supply glut,
I feel like it'll be very slow

670
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:18,280
to respond in terms of a supply
response to increased prices.

671
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,200
So the overshoot when I, I
suppose, I mean a price that

672
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,440
sits above the long term
incentive price that would bring

673
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,560
enough production in.
And those constraints are

674
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,880
political, they're
environmental, the fact that

675
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,760
we're such a tiny little sector
that it's not well developed

676
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,920
from a financing point of view
and it's people.

677
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:40,760
And all of those things add up
to elongate projects.

678
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,680
And I mean, Bannerman's been at
it for 20 years.

679
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,600
There has been a significant
market event which elongated

680
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,640
that period.
But you know, we're probably

681
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,840
best able to judge those
constraints and we're in an

682
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,960
environment like Namibia where
there isn't a disproportionate

683
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,640
environmental or social push
back against uranium.

684
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,440
On the on the flip side of of
the strategy of your bring it to

685
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:07,360
market now you can even see in
this in this deal there there's

686
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:12,640
this evolution of, of financing
dynamics where you know, you've

687
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,040
got like compared to two years
ago like a much more attractive

688
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,640
kind of, you know, terms of
project financing than would

689
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,240
have otherwise been possible.
The evolution of, of, of

690
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:24,920
financing is introducing more
strategic equity.

691
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,080
It's introducing even
unconventional forms of

692
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,360
strategic equity to finance
projects.

693
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,120
And if you can introduce that at
a time when your market cap is

694
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,200
even higher than you kind of,
you know, you can end up

695
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,800
diluting the project less and,
and, and the likes as well.

696
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,800
So there's a trade off and then
you're trying to find that

697
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,400
balance of, of bringing the
pounds to market, but also

698
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:45,160
understanding that things are
probably going to get more

699
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,680
favourable from a financing
perspective over time.

700
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:52,040
I think it was, was it Leah on
like recently saying, saying

701
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,720
that, you know, this, there's
real interest from data centers

702
00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:58,960
to, to, to, to, to, to finance
some of these undeveloped

703
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:00,840
uranium projects.
Now, I don't, you know, I've

704
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,040
taken it, taken it at face
value.

705
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,920
But if that's true, you do have
these, you have these

706
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,880
infrastructure projects.
And if you can, you know, the

707
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,440
cost of capital for an
infrastructure project is, you

708
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,880
know, single digit low
percentages versus, you know,

709
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,440
undeveloped mine in Africa, you
know, approaching N double,

710
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,040
yeah, N teens.
It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a

711
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,640
huge difference.
And, and as you converge that

712
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,920
way makes, makes a big
difference for the, for the

713
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,200
financing.
So I just, yeah, it's a bunch of

714
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:31,880
ramblings, but keen to get your
thoughts on all of that.

715
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,120
Yeah, you're right.
The financing options are

716
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,440
evolving, but you know, we've
been in the thick of it now for

717
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:44,120
2 1/2 years and we've been able
to have a very think accurate

718
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,040
finger on the pulse at the live
firing end of things.

719
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,760
Not the theoretical discussions,
but you know, what is actually

720
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,000
available at the moment.
And some things have come in

721
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,920
such as Nordic bonds.
There's a lot of interest in

722
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,600
Nordic bonds, it just wasn't
there a year ago.

723
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:03,400
There are other elements that if
we were trying to finance a

724
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,400
project in 12 months, we'd be
working on right now.

725
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,960
The reality, though, is that
we've had to. 2 1/2 years to run

726
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,360
this process, we've had broad
interests from a bunch of

727
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,000
different parties and this has
come out demonstrably well above

728
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,080
the others as as a preferred
alternative.

729
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,200
So there's no regret cost in
wondering if we could have got a

730
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,480
better deal.
We're we're confident that this

731
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,440
holistically is a great deal for
what we have been able to get at

732
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,640
this point in time.
The other thing is if we were in

733
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,400
a more stable macro environment,
you know, I might be more

734
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,720
inclined to think about what
would an interim raising raise

735
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:44,080
another 100 million bucks and
keep moving the project forward

736
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,720
and see what's available for us
in 12 months time.

737
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,560
But we're just, we're nowhere
near that sort of an

738
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,480
environment.
It's as an investor, you've got

739
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:57,040
the, I think the luxury of
liquidity where something goes

740
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,960
horribly wrong.
You can pull your money out and

741
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,480
lick your wounds when you're
running a company and when the

742
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:06,240
board's making decisions that a
high consequence like this, you

743
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:08,680
can't ignore the level of
instability that we've got

744
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,200
around the globe and what could
happen to those sources of

745
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:16,640
financing or equity market
windows or even some of the key

746
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,240
geopolitical levers over the
next 12 months.

747
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,160
So we thought we feel like we're
striking the, the, the

748
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,520
appropriate balance between
getting the certainty of now

749
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,960
moving forward at this time
frame and getting enough

750
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,920
sufficient benefit from these
trends that you described that

751
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,280
it's, it's a great deal for us
right now.

752
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,760
And the possibility of a better
deal comes with a whole lot of

753
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,000
additional risk that we just
don't think is worth taking.

754
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,880
To that end, can you remind us
what at what point would Ferb

755
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,320
have become involved?
Is there a percentage or if

756
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,560
you'd sold the whole project?
I know it's overseas, but Ferb

757
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,840
has done that previously with
you being an Australian company.

758
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:03,320
So Ferb doesn't have
jurisdiction because there's

759
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,680
nothing taking place at the
headco level.

760
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:11,520
There was a time before the AVZ
decision during COVID when our

761
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,520
advice had been that even at a
headco level, Ferb didn't have

762
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:16,960
jurisdiction.
But they've taken a more

763
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:23,440
restrictive view on that since
the AVZ financing and because

764
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:29,040
SAN and C is an SOA, they would
not be able to build a stake at

765
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,040
the head code level above 9.9%
without Ferb.

766
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,480
So it's, it's another layer of,
for anyone who's concerned about

767
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,960
any predatory instincts that
they might have, it's another

768
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,520
layer of protection in addition
to the standstill that we've

769
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:44,760
got.
And of course the standstill

770
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,000
like this you'd take to the
takeovers panel and it'd take

771
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,520
about 5 minutes to to be
effective.

772
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:54,160
So the the idea of this being a
step towards a predatory

773
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,560
relationship, just it's an
understandable question, but

774
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,160
there's really no basis for
that.

775
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,600
Banneman has two existing
offtakes that struck late last

776
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,760
year with North American
utilities for £1,000,000.

777
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,440
How, how does that fit in?
Are they, are they, I mean that

778
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,800
they of course were conditional
on a few things themselves, but

779
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,840
is it your anticipation that
they will still like, they'll

780
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,880
feed your overall marketing mix,
they'll be part of your 40%,

781
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:22,880
correct?
Yeah, right.

782
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:24,720
Yeah, they'll be part of the
40%.

783
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:26,800
They're pleased for us.
Yeah.

784
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,440
And we've obviously talked to
them about it.

785
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,800
They they appreciate that it's
created certainty for us.

786
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,320
We had a lot of flexibility in
those off takes as well.

787
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,000
So their base escalated from
2029 to 2033, correct.

788
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,960
Yeah.
But the was the, the the the

789
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,040
base which they start from that
was determined at the time that

790
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,360
you struck the deal or how does
that work?

791
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:48,360
Yeah, correct.
Yeah, yeah.

792
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,080
Gotcha, gotcha.
I'm curious with a a broader

793
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,600
uranium kind of question, if
the, if the thesis plays out

794
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,480
like you like you kind of
anticipate it does, Brandon,

795
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:00,920
what happens to Spartan and
yellow cake?

796
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,640
Well, as we learned a couple of
years ago, you know, sport is

797
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:11,080
very restricted on what it can
do and that is basically it

798
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,400
can't hold more than 10% of its
assets as cash or anything other

799
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,440
than uranium.
There was a time when sport

800
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,080
actively considered whether it
could introduce a redemption

801
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,880
mechanism.
There was some pressure from

802
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,080
some of its biggest shareholders
and they thought that maybe by

803
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,880
introducing a 5% redemption
mechanism under limited

804
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,840
circumstances that would be able
to cap the discount that they

805
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,040
could trade to.
And they took it away and they

806
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,360
just simply couldn't do it.
They couldn't even put it to

807
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,000
their unit holders.
And that's how bound up that

808
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,560
constituent mechanism is for
sport.

809
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,400
So what happens to sport is it
just accumulates in the

810
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,040
foreseeable future and certainly
in the foreseeable cycle over

811
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,280
that period of time, it will
just continue to accumulate

812
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,680
pounce.
And I've had plenty of utilities

813
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,480
say to me, well, that just
doesn't make sense.

814
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:04,120
You know, why would a company do
that?

815
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,800
And the answer is because Sprott
gets paid 35 basis points to

816
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,280
manage that position and that
NIV.

817
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,400
So where is the incentive to do
anything else?

818
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,960
Nowhere.
They're very attached to those

819
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,400
fees.
And they deserve it.

820
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,760
I mean, they've created
something extraordinary that no

821
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,640
one thought would go in this
direction.

822
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,920
Totally.
But do you not think this might

823
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,520
draw, draw a marker from
governments in in other

824
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,960
commodities going forward where
it's such a, a concentrated

825
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,560
supply?
I know this is a a kind of

826
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,440
bigger philosophical kind of
question about it, but if if the

827
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,840
thesis plays out like everyone
investing in spot thinks it will

828
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,040
play out, then it's going to
cause a a serious problem, is it

829
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,480
not?
Not really like they're limited

830
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,360
to £9 million per annum in terms
of what they can Hoover up now

831
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,160
under their at the market
facility.

832
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,240
I think that was smart.
It was good news when they

833
00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:59,520
didn't succeed in listing in the
US, which was one of the

834
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,280
conditions when they took over
Uranium Participation Corp.

835
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:07,960
They needed to go and attempt to
list in the USI was cheering

836
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,480
when that didn't go through
because that might have exposed

837
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,800
them geopolitically to having
the the whole thing cracked open

838
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,040
by the US government, whereas
now there's just 0 jurisdiction.

839
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,040
This is only good for Canada's
uranium sector because it's

840
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,120
supporting uranium prices or
supporting A transparent trade

841
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,720
in the market.
And so again, in the foreseeable

842
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:34,440
future, and certainly for this
cycle playing out and we've

843
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,360
tested it, can't see a pathway
where it would do anything else

844
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,080
other than continuing to
accumulate.

845
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,320
And this is a sector that exists
on large levels of inventory.

846
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,840
There's large levels of
strategic government holdings,

847
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,720
there are significant levels of
commercial inventory.

848
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,240
So whilst 6570 million pounds
does sound like an awful lot,

849
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,400
not in the context of the
functioning levels of inventory

850
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,800
that this sector has existed on
for decades.

851
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,520
You're now a obviously in
business with a, you know, the

852
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,640
Chinese state owned entity.
And one of the, the, the red

853
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,080
flags about question marks that
a lot of people have in their

854
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,040
models is they can map out
everything, you know, arrow

855
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,920
comes online and Rook one comes
online such and such here.

856
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,520
But what Chinese demand is going
to be is a bit more of a Gray

857
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,560
area.
What do you think their approach

858
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,040
is?
And how do you think like the

859
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:31,560
the consensus western numbers
match up with with yours?

860
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:38,400
The consensus numbers have
drastically trailed our numbers

861
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,720
on China in almost every
dimension for 10 years.

862
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,560
And and that's been for a few
reasons.

863
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:50,680
The, the first one was there was
a huge amount of concern coming

864
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,040
out of some of the consultants,
but also some of investors about

865
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:58,000
China's got so much inventory,
half a million, half a billion

866
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,840
pounds in inventory that's going
to come back into the market.

867
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,440
They're going to use it to
manipulate the market.

868
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,600
They're insert perception issue
here.

869
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,080
Now we had a really clear eyed
view of that because we just

870
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:19,440
figured that the Chinese state
apparatus is not going to put

871
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,800
themselves at risk of investing
hundreds of billions of dollars

872
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,920
in going from 2% of their grid
being nuclear as it was back

873
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,240
then to something more like 15
or 20% of their grid being

874
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:34,240
nuclear.
If they don't have 100 years of

875
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:36,480
uranium to make sure that
they're not going to get screwed

876
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,720
by the rest of the world.
You know, bear in mind they've

877
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:42,840
they've learnt the trade in
other commodities and they're

878
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,880
not going to be silly enough to
allow the rest of the world to

879
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:50,760
do that to them.
So that level of appetite is

880
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,560
baked in and it's voracious and
it's long term.

881
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,040
And we're talking about not even
rounding errors.

882
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,120
When you look at their foreign
reserves, like they would have

883
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,800
converted a tiny percentage of
their U.S.

884
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,200
Treasuries into uranium at the
time.

885
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,160
Uranium doesn't go off.
You can store vast quantities of

886
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:16,160
it in a single secured facility.
And we went back to Japan's

887
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,520
approach to inventory prior to
Fukushima.

888
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,440
Before that, you know, turned
the whole country's nuclear

889
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,720
industry on its head.
Their whole philosophy back in

890
00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:29,600
those days was they needed to
have five years of nuclear fuel

891
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,800
inside their own borders locked
into their own secured warehouse

892
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,280
based on what their demand would
be 5 years from here.

893
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,480
And they found that on a rolling
basis that gave them a fair bit

894
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,200
of protection.
Now Japan's a country that's

895
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,840
very exposed on resource
sovereignty.

896
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:51,560
So that was their approach and
the, the approach that China is

897
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,840
taking and will take is not
dissimilar.

898
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:59,000
So we just, we just saw that
concern about Chinese

899
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,800
inventories as being totally
misfounded.

900
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:07,280
We then we're at odds and an
outlier in terms of what we

901
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,600
would see the Chinese roll out
of nuclear plants being.

902
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,200
And again, it was a top down
approach where we looked at

903
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,320
their growth of their electrical
grid.

904
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,640
We looked at what renewables,
even in the incredibly

905
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,480
optimistic roll outs that
they've achieved would achieve,

906
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,720
how much coal they would be able
to build, how much hydro they

907
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:32,880
would be able to build.
And we just saw an, a demand

908
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:37,160
profile that was with odds, add
odds to, you know, almost

909
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:38,760
everyone who was public in the
sector.

910
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:40,240
And we've been vindicated by
that.

911
00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:42,600
In those days, people were
skeptical about whether China

912
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,840
would build 6 to 8 reactors a
year.

913
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:52,000
And then from 2022, they've been
approving 10 reactors a year and

914
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:54,760
they've done it in 2022.
They're all in production by

915
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:59,280
now, all in construction by now.
2023, the same, 24 the same, 25

916
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,520
the same.
And we're waiting to see how

917
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,640
many they approve this year.
I think that number will go up.

918
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,880
I think it will go up.
They're still far from Western

919
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,640
levels of penetration of nuclear
power in their grid.

920
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:20,400
They have proven themselves to
have fundamentally grown every

921
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:25,240
aspect of their supply chain and
they're capable of building more

922
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:27,760
than 10 reactors a year.
And why wouldn't they?

923
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,040
They're building them at 1/4 of
the cost of what the West can

924
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,880
build them on an in capital
intensity basis.

925
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:40,320
Each reactor now is being built
in less than five years compared

926
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:47,080
to what the West is doing, and
the strength of their domestic

927
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:51,280
nuclear deployment industry and
all of the supply chain that's

928
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:55,840
attached to them gives them the
most perfect exemplar of what

929
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,200
the Belt and Rd. initiative was
originally set up to do.

930
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,000
So I think it's only getting
better from here.

931
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,040
China scale is just phenomenal,
just leaves mature on the

932
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,600
ground.
The the the speed, the the

933
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,680
complexity that they can unlock
the you know everything about it

934
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:17,920
is is kind of amazing.
A lot of the uranium stocks,

935
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:23,200
uranium technology plays over
the past few years got lumped

936
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,680
together and they had a high
correlation when it came to

937
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,640
trading with AI and these sorts
of things.

938
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:33,280
And why it sort of came to mind
was the deep sick moment.

939
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:37,080
China again and you would have
seen like all of your peers, the

940
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,960
stock drops 1015% whatever it
was on, on that kind of day.

941
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,080
How do you how do you take in
the correlation with which you

942
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,080
start to trade to all these
other things in in the market

943
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:53,080
and the big question mark that
that whole energy intensity,

944
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,920
energy usage AI brings to the
uranium landscape.

945
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,160
Yeah.
Well, look, DeepSeek was another

946
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:06,320
example of the market misreading
the implications and quite

947
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,400
quickly correcting like across
the board, our peers were down

948
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,040
20% on the day.
And by the end of the week, most

949
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,480
of the peers, including
ourselves were back to par.

950
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,480
And that's because what DeepSeek
really did for our sector and

951
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:26,280
for across the whole electricity
spectrum was it turned a

952
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:32,400
theoretical threat into a hot
war, which was EU s s assumed

953
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:37,640
ascendancy on AI suddenly was
challenged really quite

954
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,880
fundamentally.
And the US economy is so geared

955
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,480
towards the necessity of those
productivity improvements and

956
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,200
the technology ascendancy from
everything from commerce through

957
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:52,640
to defence that they simply
cannot lose that warm battle

958
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:57,560
with China or anyone else on AI.
And so our reading immediately

959
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,800
after seeing that news was that
they will have to double down

960
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,520
and triple down and quadruple
down.

961
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:08,600
And the immediate reaction
needed to be, we use all of the

962
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:13,240
tools we've got today, which is
greater capacity, greater,

963
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,320
greater deployment of GPU's,
greater deployment of data

964
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,320
centers.
So what we realized in those

965
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:23,120
first few hours was that the US
would have to double down with

966
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,240
the tools that they had, and
they'd probably have to triple

967
00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:29,120
down and quadruple down because
they would have to win the AI

968
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,080
fight.
Now, we've had something really

969
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,560
similar just recently.
I think the Spring Festival or

970
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:40,080
Chinese New Year demonstration
of humanoid robots that Unitary

971
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,720
did has been a huge wake up call
for the West and particularly

972
00:54:43,720 --> 00:54:50,480
when you compare it to what
Chinese robotics manufacturers

973
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,120
were profiling at last year's
Chinese New Year.

974
00:54:53,520 --> 00:55:00,240
So to answer your question,
Jody, I think the AI driven data

975
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:07,320
centre demand is on balance as
significant as the more

976
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,280
optimistic numbers that are
thrown out there.

977
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,480
And it puts an enormous amount
of pressure on every trace load

978
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,320
electrical solution.
It's as good for coal as it is

979
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,520
for nuclear power.
It's as good for gas as it is

980
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,920
for nuclear power.
And coal over time there will be

981
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:27,960
more of a shift towards nuclear
because it has the attributes of

982
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,760
being clean and these data
centres do have a lowest common

983
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,680
denominator approach to their
customers.

984
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:41,800
But the the key take away for
nuclear power is there is now

985
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:46,280
enough demand for whatever level
of deployment the nuclear

986
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,000
industry can deliver into data
centres.

987
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,400
And it's all about how quickly
can the nuclear industry expand,

988
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,440
how quickly can they bring the
SMRS on?

989
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:59,040
That's yeah, it's in the last
day.

990
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:04,480
We set up one of those clawbots
and I don't know how you can

991
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,760
have the experience of, of, of
whipping one of them up using

992
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,520
it, seeing how useful it is and
thinking that, that the future

993
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,480
is anything other than
incredibly energy intensive.

994
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,560
The demand for energy is, is
infinite.

995
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:20,640
The only constraints are going
to literally be the, the

996
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,160
physical ones of how much we can
actually supply.

997
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,520
Like we'll soak it all up.
I could, you know, I want to

998
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:26,720
program this thing through
everything.

999
00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:30,320
And a lot of it's generative.
And the generative tasks

1000
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,480
require, you know, burning a
small town's worth of

1001
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:38,720
electricity.
You know, it's, it's yeah, it's

1002
00:56:38,720 --> 00:56:41,440
it's going to be a very energy
intensive future.

1003
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,920
And I totally agree with the
perspective that that benefits

1004
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,200
all forms of energy.
And just going back to the AI

1005
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:51,000
and we'll come to how we're kind
of unfairly linked because we

1006
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:54,080
don't seem to get as a uranium
sector, we don't seem to get

1007
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:55,880
much of the upside from AI at
the moment.

1008
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,000
It doesn't seem to be baked in.
But every time there's a stumble

1009
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,960
in the AI thesis, we seem to cop
it.

1010
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:06,600
There was that moment when one
of the US states refused

1011
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:11,800
permission for behind the meter
power solution to a data centre.

1012
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,120
And that that there was several
months after the deep seq event

1013
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,920
that really became an issue for
the AI thesis.

1014
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,560
And what we've just seen from
the Trump administration in he

1015
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:27,000
stated the in the last couple of
days anyway was he's now saying

1016
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,640
data centres, I will make sure
that they can have their own

1017
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,080
behind the meter access to
power.

1018
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:36,280
Now he's had to do that because
otherwise data centres will

1019
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:38,760
squeeze out both the power and
the water from the local

1020
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,720
communities.
What we're already seeing is the

1021
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,160
local communities.
You kind of got this dissection

1022
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:48,640
of the existing grid where all
the clean stuff being taken by

1023
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:50,920
the data centers and the local
communities.

1024
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,200
If there's a coal component to a
grid, they're making sure that

1025
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,720
they run that coal as much as
they can and deliver it into

1026
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,000
households who aren't subject to
the same clean energy

1027
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,640
constraints that are data
centers, which can only do that

1028
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:05,000
so much.
And I think that really opens up

1029
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:12,200
the the final constraint on
widespread deployment of small

1030
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:17,160
modular reactors housed with and
coupled to data centres.

1031
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:21,720
And as we've seen from the Trump
administration, they they don't

1032
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,280
let fragmented regulation get in
their way when there's a

1033
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,600
priority to be addressed.
And I think some of the grid

1034
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:32,200
level regulations that have been
a hassle for incorporating

1035
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:36,080
behind the meter power solutions
for data centres in one way or

1036
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:37,480
another, I'll just get swept out
of the way.

1037
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,520
And we've seen the, the backlog
of orders for these GE, Vanova

1038
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:47,400
and other gas turbines, they're
already at 20-30 any longer and

1039
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,680
the West might even be able to
build a nuclear reactor in that

1040
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,840
time.
So SMRS, if we can, if we can

1041
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:54,840
get it together and the tech can
get there and you can do these

1042
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:58,280
things in a modularized way,
like a like a factory, hopefully

1043
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:03,680
that that production time just
comes in and and like a bit of

1044
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:05,680
the, the gap that I think we
kind of see coming.

1045
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,400
Brandon, it's, it's been, it's
been really enjoyable to learn a

1046
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,080
bit about the yeah, the, the
deal, the behind the scenes

1047
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,720
parts of it and get a, get some
insights into the, the wider

1048
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,560
uranium market as well.
I really appreciate you, you

1049
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:21,600
joining us.
And so anything else you want to

1050
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,440
leave us with?
Look, I think it's in terms of

1051
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,560
just for particularly
shareholders who are listening

1052
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,800
or people who are considering
Bannerman as an investment.

1053
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,000
What this deal has done is it's
really transformed the company.

1054
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:36,320
We've gone from being an
advanced development asset

1055
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,480
that's in construction, that's
looking at potentially in most

1056
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,440
people's minds an enormous
equity draw.

1057
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,200
And all of the risk associated
with debt, all of the debt

1058
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,640
burden, this restrictive
covenants, the reduction in

1059
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:53,160
margin that you get from
servicing that debt to still

1060
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:57,000
having an attributable see
through of £2,000,000 per annum

1061
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:00,360
without any debt construction
funded.

1062
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,000
And I think what this
partnership does is it really

1063
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,320
gives you a high probability
when you think about our

1064
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,840
expansion going from a T8 to a
T16.

1065
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,000
And our attributable see through
production from that expanded

1066
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,480
case is bigger than the three
and a half million pounds that

1067
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:18,800
we've started with at the
moment.

1068
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,840
So there's two steps to get
there, but those steps look

1069
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,960
pretty locked in now.
And I think we're just a totally

1070
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,760
different company to what we
were a couple of weeks ago

1071
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:30,160
before this this deal was
unveiled.

1072
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:35,040
So I'm excited and appreciate
the opportunity to come on and

1073
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,840
wax about it.
Oh, JD, got an idea before you

1074
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,640
go, Brandon.
I was thinking underrated,

1075
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:43,040
overrated.
You can talk about all your

1076
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,040
peers, yes.
Yeah, underrated, overrated, but

1077
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:46,960
you know, might not get but
literally.

1078
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,040
Might not get too many answers.
Generally what I was thinking,

1079
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,320
overrated, underrated.
Are you ready for this?

1080
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:52,960
You just overrated.
You don't have to justify it.

1081
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:54,520
You can if you want to be
succinct about it, but.

1082
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,240
Honey, so So is this the sort of
thing that fund managers love to

1083
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:01,480
do and I just get in a whole lot
of crap because.

1084
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:03,760
Probably in the end.
But you and bankers and some of

1085
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:05,840
the I'll.
Ease you into it, Thorium.

1086
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:10,040
Overrated.
Mauritania as a uranium

1087
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:14,680
producing destination.
Can I, can I do the elbow one

1088
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:15,520
word instead?
Yeah.

1089
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:20,440
You can say more difficult ISR.
So a couple of years ago,

1090
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,000
overrated, but I think the
market's come to understand that

1091
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,160
when it works, it's magic, when
it doesn't work, it's really

1092
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:30,360
challenged.
So I would say perhaps a bit

1093
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,840
underrated because the market's
got so many concerns about it

1094
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:38,760
now.
Is the enrichment bottleneck and

1095
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,160
the concerns around that
underrated or overrated?

1096
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:48,040
Underrated, particularly in the
West.

1097
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,240
Particularly in the West,
China's increasing its

1098
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:55,480
enrichment capacity in lockstep
with its nuclear demand.

1099
01:01:56,160 --> 01:02:00,760
So they have the problem solved.
The West is still fumbling with

1100
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:07,280
financing constraints and
commercial entities who want to

1101
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,080
reduce their risk to
infrastructure like levels

1102
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,920
through enrichment contracting
before they'll respond.

1103
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:16,280
So until government steps in in
the West, it's going to be an

1104
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,200
underrated problem.
The West fumbling the footy?

1105
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:22,320
That doesn't sound like us.
What what about the sulfuric

1106
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,040
acid problem, which we heard a
lot about over the past kind of

1107
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,640
couple years, particularly in in
Kazakhstan?

1108
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:33,560
In Kazakhstan, it's probably
overrated now only because they

1109
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:38,320
seem to be addressing it and
sulfuric acid is an in very

1110
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,920
localized issue.
So broadly speaking, it's

1111
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,560
overrated because hunters are
looking at the problems that

1112
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,840
Kazatomprom's had in Kazakhstan
and assuming that sulfuric acid

1113
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:51,480
must be a problem anywhere.
If you've got seaborne access to

1114
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:56,080
sulfuric acid, it's a very
different risk profile to if

1115
01:02:56,080 --> 01:03:00,800
you're dealing with a landlocked
country that's reliant on

1116
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,440
localized domestic sources of
acid, particularly when they're

1117
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,200
industrial sources.
Small changes in those

1118
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,880
industries or the localized
demand, as we've seen in

1119
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:15,760
Kazakhstan from fertilizers and
probably munitions, creates huge

1120
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:17,240
distortions there that caught
them.

1121
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,880
If you've got access to seaborne
such as ourselves, it's not an

1122
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,360
issue.
One day being able to

1123
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:25,480
efficiently extract uranium from
the ocean.

1124
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:34,200
Overrated ultimately that will
be a solution and that probably

1125
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,720
will set the long term incentive
price.

1126
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:42,160
So in the industry they say well
that's like 200 two $150.00

1127
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:45,760
uranium it becomes viable, but
it hasn't been proven at any

1128
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:47,920
level of scale.
It's all at the sort of the nano

1129
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:53,520
filter, nano technology stage.
And a lot of the problem is if

1130
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:58,880
you, if you're filtering sea
water for uranium, the uranium

1131
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,840
molecules are really big and
that's the idea, but you've got

1132
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,400
to filter out an awful lot of
other stuff.

1133
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,440
You you've got to basically
create pure water that's only

1134
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,240
got uranium left in it.
So it's challenging, but

1135
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,520
ultimately I think it's and it's
healthy for the industry because

1136
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,760
if you're going to encourage
countries to build reactors that

1137
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,160
are going to be running for 100
years, you don't want to listen.

1138
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,640
Listen too much to me telling
you that we've got a supply

1139
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,040
crisis.
The the good thing about the

1140
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:25,960
ocean is you can really have
economies of scale with that

1141
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:27,440
one.
Indeed.

1142
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,400
What about?
I thought it'd be kind in in

1143
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,160
framing it and not name anyone
individually, but restart

1144
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:36,920
projects in general.
I think they are what they are

1145
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:42,640
like all of the restart projects
are in play now and Restart

1146
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:48,080
present financing advantages and
operational disadvantages over

1147
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,680
green fields.
So the financing advantages are

1148
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:54,040
obvious because typically you've
got a a good capital investment

1149
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:55,800
that you can leverage off and
you can add to.

1150
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:02,720
And operationally, typically
it's a lot harder to get a

1151
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:07,640
restarted mine back to steady
state than it is when you are

1152
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:11,000
starting with a new mine.
Does it varies a lot based on

1153
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,840
their complexity.
And we've we've seen examples of

1154
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,680
complexity present challenges in
our sector.

1155
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:22,560
And because it's just such a
small sector, investors are very

1156
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,480
focused on it because they don't
have enough data points and they

1157
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:30,080
don't have enough positive data
points to realize that, you

1158
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:31,640
know, each mine behaves
differently.

1159
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,320
In our case it's it's
greenfields and it's also, you

1160
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,400
know, as far as the uranium
goes, we've got the most boring

1161
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,480
mine in the world.
Uranium mining in Sweden.

1162
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:50,160
The risk is underrated and I say
that even with the latest

1163
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:53,920
developments where the
government is mooting the

1164
01:05:54,960 --> 01:06:00,960
empowerment of local communities
to reject applications in to

1165
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:05,160
mine the alum shale.
Sorry, when you say the risk is

1166
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:08,360
underrated, what risk
specifically do you refer to

1167
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:10,120
there?
The risk of being able to do it.

1168
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,200
So I'm saying it's harder than
everyone thinks it is, yeah.

1169
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:18,360
What about for WA?
I don't know how to think about

1170
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,920
WA.
Like on the one hand, it just

1171
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:25,400
makes so much sense.
On the other hand, we're so

1172
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:29,920
lucky in this state that we can
make crazy ass choices like

1173
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:33,440
banning uranium and there's no
real consequence except to the

1174
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:36,640
companies who are trying to
develop those assets.

1175
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:39,680
And that's, that's just the
irony of it.

1176
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:43,560
We're too blessed in this
country and we're too blessed in

1177
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,640
WA to make sensible decisions.
I compare that to Namibia where

1178
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,120
there's huge amount of support
for uranium.

1179
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:51,440
And I don't mean tolerance.
I don't mean the locals put up

1180
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,000
with us.
They really want the mines and

1181
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:56,480
the and our peers to come into
production because they just

1182
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:01,200
don't have the choices to to
listen to a Greenpeace or to

1183
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,840
listen to a Greens party or to
listen to the Labour Party and

1184
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:09,080
just say we don't really need
this so we're going to ban it.

1185
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:12,520
You truly are the the lucky
country.

1186
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:14,480
That might be a great spot to
leave it or you got another one

1187
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,520
for.
That that's yeah, you've you've,

1188
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,240
you've given me lots to think
about, Brandon, So thank you

1189
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,160
very much for joining.
Us, we'd love to come one day,

1190
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:24,040
hopefully in maybe 2029 when the
project's built and and check it

1191
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:26,000
out.
Right well leave yourself for a

1192
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:27,880
bit of time to tour around
Namibia as well.

1193
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,520
It's it's a fabulous country
there you've.

1194
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:31,800
Been.
Absolutely, yeah.

1195
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:33,520
Oh, you've been.
I'd go again in the blink of an

1196
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:34,600
eye.
Beautiful place.

1197
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:36,600
Looks like Mars, doesn't it?
Very cool.

1198
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:38,760
Very cool indeed.
Fantastic.

1199
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:39,880
Thank you, Brandon.
Thanks guys.

1200
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,560
Katie, are you any more
interested in you after that?

1201
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:45,960
I actually I actually am.
I thought that was awesome.

1202
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,440
I thought the deal was
fantastic.

1203
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:53,280
I you know, it hasn't done any
any harm to diminish my fears of

1204
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:56,560
how good China is at everything,
but teaming up with them.

1205
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:58,160
Maybe that's the way to go,
right?

1206
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:02,000
Huge thank you to Sandy Ground
support focus the platform by

1207
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:05,800
market tech interlinks and
exceed capital go to room money.

1208
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:09,480
Miners.
Now remember, I'm an idiot.

1209
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,200
JD is an idiot.
If you thought any of this was

1210
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:14,720
anything other than
entertainment, you're an idiot

1211
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:16,240
and you need to read out a
disclaimer.