The Miners on our Radar this Quarterly Season

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Righto money miners.
That's the best bloody voice

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I've had in two weeks boys.
We got a bit going on, a bit of

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spitballing about pre quarterly
season.

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What's what's what's on the
money of mine radar, right?

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The old Tembo royalty's been
bought out of Dagaranga mate.

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Resolution cop of mine JD is
going to over one kilometre deep

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in the bloody close to the crust
of the earth, and it's probably

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about as hot as it too, by the
sounds.

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Got it all today mate.
I'll tell you what other bloody

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big news that every mining
company needs to pay attention

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to is bloody MMS already rocking
and raring to go for a freaking

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open pit mining contract today.
Today they've got they've got

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the gear, they've got the
people, they've got the

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technical expertise.
And by technical I mean

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vertically integrated all the
way to tech services to tell you

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how to get the bloody rock out
as quick as you can and make you

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cash.
It's phenomenal.

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I'm pumped.
I'm pumped.

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I wouldn't even saw I'm laying
it out on a silver platter.

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It's a bloody gold platter of
mining services offering.

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Give MMSA call.
Bloody just friggin do it.

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Just do it.
Love your blood.

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Simple.
Eh, today, today, right, let's

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get into it.
Quarterly season coming up 1st

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of October, invoice day too.
I like first of first of any

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month.
And mate, we're gonna go just a

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bit of a round table spitball of
what we're what we are thinking

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is gonna be interesting possibly
and you wouldn't believe it.

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I've picked 3 underground mines
for mine so.

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Beforehand, Maddie, I've got,
I've got an announcement.

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Oh yeah, you've got an
announcement.

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Yeah, a quick, quick
announcement for the money

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miners.
This is well, potentially by the

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by the time you listen to this
podcast, you, you, you, you've

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probably got something new in
your inbox.

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It's a gift.
We've got a gift for the money

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miners out there.
It'll be in the inbox only if

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you subscribe to the directors
special already, though.

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Basically on the, on the back of
the, you know, re emergence of

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interest in that lithium space.
Everyone loves lithium again.

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It's funny how quick that
happens after China stimulus, or

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really after YJ was YJ.
Yeah, on the back of YJ's

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interview, we.
We've got a free resource

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available for the money miners.
It's AI.

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Think of a lithium comps
workbook.

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It it includes all of the
resources to reserves of 45

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publicly listed lithium
companies just to make analysis

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a breeze.
If I had this as a banker, I'd

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just be so happy.
My life would be so much easier.

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And if you sign up to the
directive special, you'll get an

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email with details on how to how
to access it.

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Basically just have to reply to
the email if you've already

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referred a couple people to the
list.

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And big thanks to Cal putting
this out together.

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Good on you.
Good on you Cal X letter of

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intent.
Go Cal.

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Cal is a person, not a town.
Yeah, no.

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Good on the town of Cal for
producing great talent as well.

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If you're not subscribed to
directorspecialmoneyandmine.com,

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first thing you do, second thing
you do, give yourself an

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uppercut if you weren't already
subscribed and we can go on from

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there.
Yeah, any mine.com, right.

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What are we looking for in the
quarter?

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Quarterly season, mate.
First up I'll I'll lead out.

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We'll go tag team today.
Let's do it, man 1H1H first

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here.
I didn't talk about him

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yesterday.
Long town, but the I think I

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might have jumped the gun on the
mine plan review.

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I think that I don't think it's
going to be out as soon as I

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said.
I think it mightn't be till when

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the quarterly is or close to the
quarterly which I would

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anticipate will be that later in
later this month.

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Can't say getting out early, it
might, who knows, but we

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obviously want to see what the
what the cash burns been during

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ramp up and even ramping up in
low lithium prices and

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everything say where they're
sitting, say what if there's a

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risk of rising, I'm sure there
there always is.

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It might be a smart thing for
them to rise to relieve a bit of

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balance sheet pressure.
Not sure, not sure, but I cast

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my eye back to last year when
Gina made her move.

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And if you're thinking about
when is the pro back then, if

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you're thinking right, when is
the absolute point of weakness

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that Gina would take that stake
beyond 20% either via 100% or a

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bloody JV or something, You'd
think, well, long town in ramp

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up.
And because you would never have

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predicted back then that
spodumain process will be in the

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seven hundreds that is now.
And I'll just be very interested

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to see if she's going to make a
move.

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And if she was going to, why
wouldn't it be now?

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What do you think?
All the power is with Gina,

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right?
She's got all the cash in the

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world.
You know, you'd, you'd pick the,

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the point of absolute most pain,
which you can always see with,

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with hindsight a bit better.
But you know, she's got all the,

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all the power here.
She can kind of wait it out.

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And I think the other thing to
kind of mention, not that we're

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recording this twice or
anything, but as we as we know,

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there is a big contingent of
shareholders within Lyontown who

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have a lot of power.
And they were the ones that

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we've spoken about at length in
the past to bounce back a deal,

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bounce back another deal with
Albemarle who eventually said

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yes to that $3 bid.
So you kind of got to win them

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over, right.
But Gina's the the one with the.

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Power, yeah, good defensibility
in that, you know, blocking

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contention but but if they had
to if they had to raise money,

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then that probably gets diluted
down, which makes it a pathway

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to control via a lowball offer a
lot more doable.

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I think she, I think she waits a
bit longer, Maddie, 'cause you

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know, what's the downside?
The downside to her is like, OK,

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you wait a bit longer, but, and,
and what if lithium rebounds?

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Then you gotta, you know,
ultimately have to pay a bit

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more, but no one else can buy.
You've got your claim to it or,

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or you're, you're lobbing offer
here when you've got to win

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people over who have anchored to
a much higher price.

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I, I think she just, I think
that the trade off risk reward

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for her is just just wait
longer.

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Yeah, it's just Maddie.
Well, if they're anchored to a

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higher price, it's like they're
only gonna take a higher price.

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What point would it have to be
in terms of pain they would

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accept a low price.
I know you said, as you said,

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they could get diluted down
1015% more if they rise within

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their capacity.
Who knows?

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Who knows what the share?
Price is, I don't think it's

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gonna be.
I think I'll put the cock on the

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block sale.
I don't think it's gonna be Gina

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by herself.
I think it will be some form of

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JV similar to what we saw with
Azure with SQM or it could be

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with bloody Pilbara.
Oh, nice.

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I don't think I think I can't
say Jonah being the owner,

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Hancock, I'm with the owner.
I'm.

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With you there, yeah, yeah.
There's there's a scenario where

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like there's a lot, a lot, a lot
to play out.

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Yeah.
And they can, they can still,

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you know, prove themselves as a
profitable operator and that,

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you know, operational delivery
today, it's been like impressive

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from a distance, but there's a
lot to play out.

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But if, if it got like if the
lithium market was depressed

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enough and the cost couldn't be
sort of, you know, profitable

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and a reasonable enough
timeframe, then if the

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alternative was a cap raise
versus, you know, persuade Gina

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to to provide a change of
control at a, at a reasonable

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kind of takeover premium, not
like a silly one, then maybe

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that contingent blocking
shareholders would actually

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just, you know, be sensible
about a premium that is, you

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know, is is OK rather than a
than a crazy one.

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And they go with the genre
option, but yeah, a lot to play

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out until then.
Yeah, it's very.

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Very much so buddy.
But but maybe maybe like a

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Pilbara thing, if they got some
Pilbara script and add some

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potential upside that could be.
I just think they've they've got

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a lot of their sort of like that
the capital they've got to

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allocate is kind of, you know,
it's not not set in stone, but a

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lot kind of has to to still go
out at their obviously they're

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just just taking the bite with
Latin.

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They're still expanding.
So I know, I know they've got a

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big cash pile, but I think a bit
of that is spoken for.

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I don't know.
Obviously they can do different

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kind of financing arrangements
and these and these kind of

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things, but yeah.
Yeah, nothing.

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Just nothing's more.
I'll say.

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Nothing's more creative to them
than just expanding their own

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like their own operation
organically.

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Very much so right Trev, What do
you got your first one mates?

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I am looking out for cash flow
of the of the gold companies.

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Maddie, I like surely if there's
every time to be printing money

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at the gold companies, is this
this quarter?

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I'm just, I'm really hopeful,
maybe too optimistic that the

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gold companies are going to show
tremendous revenue growth and

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also also like free cash flow
growth.

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I want their cost to be
controlled.

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I don't want to see costs that
have just like trended upwards

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at a faster or or same rate as
the as the gold brass has

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trended up.
I want costs to be managed.

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I want them to be printing money
and I don't.

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I don't want cost creep.
I think, I think and you think

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of what's happened like the
amount of curtailment across

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lithium, like mostly nickel and
lithium, like the amount of

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workers injected in.
I know they say, oh, it's always

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rise, rise, there's never rise,
fall.

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But I know people aren't getting
paid as much as they used to.

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Like it's all calmed down a bit.
Surely that has to come through

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at some point.
Our wages is only one thing.

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Yeah, but even the gold price
has risen and there's it.

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It hasn't.
We haven't seen inflation rise

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with the gold price.
I think it's stabilised if

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anything, so you'd think that'd
be making more margin.

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00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Your power has been not, not

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excessive the the past quarter
as well.

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I just kind of, yeah, I'd
probably say to you, Trav, take

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a leaf out of Rally Finlayson's
book and just temper your

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expectations, set them a bit
lower and maybe, maybe they'll

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get exceeded.
Maybe they will, maybe they

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will.
Oh, JD, take it away, sunshine.

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00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:05,520
A bit more vanilla in line with
what you're kind of saying

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00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,840
there, Maddie, about Lyntown.
I've gone for looking at the

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00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,680
margins of the lithium players
more broadly.

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00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:15,320
A lot of people we've spoken
with lately have said that one

198
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,240
of the, you know, WA Spider Man
producers will be the next one

199
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,560
to kind of crack.
We, we saw what happened with

200
00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:26,520
Mount Catlin not too long ago.
Maybe there is an announcement,

201
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,760
you know, in line with the quad
lease coming out sort of at the

202
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at the end of this month about
some of those operations as

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we've spoken about in the past.
Some of them can, you know, hide

204
00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:40,360
if you like the exact margins of
some of these operations a bit

205
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,680
better if they sit within a
conglomerate or a bigger

206
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organisation.
But this has been a a very tough

207
00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:48,920
quarter on the lithium price
front.

208
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,680
And you know, Greenbushes aside
and I don't expect any of them

209
00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,000
to make money, even Greenbushes
won't be having a knockout

210
00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,280
quarter by any stretch.
So let's just keep our eyes

211
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,040
peeled on on how they kind of
perform this quarter and if

212
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,600
there's any sort of big
announcements to to follow.

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00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,480
Right, our second stop of
Maddie's underground Mining

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00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,920
tour, Bellevue.
I think I'll say them both

215
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,120
quarterly, every quarter.
You don't have to travel far

216
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,280
from line down to no.
No, just bloody just down the

217
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,680
road, down the road, probably
the South side of the airport

218
00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:22,600
mate.
I believe this quarter and the

219
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,840
next quarter will be it'll be,
it'll be interesting to see if

220
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,600
they've approaching the point
where they've got the, a good

221
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,480
balance between the production
and the production haulage and

222
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,800
the development metres and the
development knowledge.

223
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,320
The whole balance between
development and production.

224
00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:43,400
As I said, like narrow vine
spread out mine hard to, you

225
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,920
know, get 1,000,000 tonne
because it is bloody, you're not

226
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,200
mine and big stop.
So there's a lot of a lot of

227
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,840
work and a lot of rinse and
repeat to bloody get tonnages

228
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,000
out of narrow van.
So waiting to see like open the

229
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,480
lot.
You know, the infrastructure's

230
00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,640
called up to the mining areas
like, you know, the substations

231
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,440
and the pumping stuff, which was
there was comments about

232
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,320
previously about, you know, just
getting everything caught up and

233
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,040
distributed across all the
mining fronts just to create

234
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,560
just that smoother mining
operation.

235
00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:17,840
So they've obviously doubled
down with the sign they're

236
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,200
aiming to hit 250,000 oz by FY20
7, you know, well before they've

237
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:27,320
even got close to that sort of
200,000 oz run rate guiding for

238
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:33,760
165 to 180 thousand oz for FY25.
And look, previously they were

239
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,960
going to DFS said they were
going to, it's going to be

240
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:37,920
200,000 for the first five
years.

241
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,640
So but share price has been, you
know, pretty hammered following

242
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:47,120
that cap rise at dollar 55 share
purchase plan was null and void.

243
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,120
So they've relieved a bit of
balance sheet pressure, which I

244
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,440
hope flows through to a like,
you know, that long term

245
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,720
sustainable approach to the
mining strategy where you don't

246
00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:01,080
have to just throw your high
grade through as soon as you get

247
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,080
it, sacrifice a bit of recovery
just to because of the debt

248
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,600
pressure and what the market's
thinking and all that.

249
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,960
After they can just mine the
thing as efficiently as possible

250
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,960
and just be sustainable.
So I'd anticipate that FY25

251
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,720
guidance is probably back end
weighted, but it'd be good to

252
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,440
see him hit that bloody 41,000
oz bottom end of guidance this

253
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,480
quarter and the next.
But we'll wait and see.

254
00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:28,640
We will indeed.
You've read my mind about it

255
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,760
'cause my second thing I'm
looking out for is just all of

256
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,360
the, all of the developers out
there, the sorry, the ramp up

257
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,040
contingent.
There's a real cohort of, you

258
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,400
know, companies in ramp up
who've who've had some, some

259
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,720
challenges kind of given the
environment.

260
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,520
Bellevue and and Mindtown were
both both on that list.

261
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,000
But to kind of round it out,
throwing Adriatic in there,

262
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,560
pretty sure they recently had
like invest and invest a site

263
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:52,840
visit.
So a bunch of people went and

264
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,560
checked out the operations.
Clearly a lot's going on there,

265
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:57,960
which we've talked about in
depth and just just came for,

266
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,280
you know, more and more colour
to come out and we'll have close

267
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,720
eyes on that.
And then the the the throw into

268
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,520
the mix there.
You wouldn't think of this as a

269
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,800
ramp up company, but min raise
just because I'm pretty sure

270
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,360
they told the market that the
the whole Rd will be like

271
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:16,200
constructed finished, finished
in October, which is this month.

272
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,600
So just yeah, can can you get a
status update there?

273
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,240
And hopefully, hopefully the
construction of that's on track

274
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,520
to allow them to deliver the,
the tonnes out of out of Onslow

275
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,320
that you know, they, they, they
need to no.

276
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,400
I know back to you, won't say it
for the previous quarter, but on

277
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,960
all back up to 110 bucks a tonne
is sure as hell going to help

278
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,480
that cause on your higher cost
on ore operations.

279
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:43,800
Very much so, JD.
Speaking of higher cost, high

280
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,320
cost iron operations, I've got
to be at left field.

281
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,920
I like what you guys have said
and thought to try and think of

282
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,480
something a bit different, but
the smaller, again, higher cost

283
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,080
iron operations is the next one
that I'm looking out for this

284
00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,120
quarterly season.
So companies like Fenix, Mount

285
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,840
Gibson, we've spoken about a
couple times in the past, Grange

286
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,080
even even Champion Iron, they're
a bit different to the others,

287
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,520
but these guys, you know, tend
to have quite a bit of cash

288
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,760
given that the quarters and
years gone by have been pretty

289
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,400
friendly to them.
But that that talk works, you

290
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,160
know, in the opposite way as
well.

291
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,520
And I'd expect this quarter just
gone to be, you know,

292
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,080
substantially worse than the
quarters prior because their

293
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,280
margins have just gotten gotten
smashed.

294
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,040
But you know, that said, again,
they've got a lot of cash.

295
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,040
Mount Gibson for one, has spoken
about venturing out into, into

296
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,480
base metals and other sorts of
things.

297
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,360
They've got a, a small buyback
programme in effect now.

298
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,720
So it'd be interesting to see if
they sort of put that into

299
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,840
action by, you know, defending
the business that they have or

300
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,440
whether they look at, you know,
you know, ultimately a

301
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,520
completely different business.
How they kind of go about it is

302
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,800
the next thing that I'm looking
out for this this quarterly

303
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,800
season.
Very good trap.

304
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,600
You're next.
I'm leaving myself from 3rd to

305
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,240
last.
Can I, can I reveal something to

306
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,160
the money miners?
We're recording this for a

307
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,120
second time because we we
butchered the recording the

308
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,160
first time, but it actually
feels like I'm listening back to

309
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,760
one of our podcast episodes
because we're just repeating

310
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,720
feels like.
Literally science, but diet as

311
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,360
as many it's much.
Crispy though.

312
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,840
As maybe Mike said on the week
and day 2 is always better than

313
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,720
day one.
The third thing to.

314
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,280
Groove a bit better.
The third thing I'm looking out

315
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,040
for is I'm really keen to see
this theme of, of cost

316
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,760
moderation for, for, for all of
the, you know, the mining

317
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,320
companies out there that they
have a project, they've got

318
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,920
something, but they don't, they
don't have cash flows.

319
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,640
So that, you know, they're,
they're moving the needle

320
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,200
forward.
But I just want to see them

321
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,680
really, you know, moderating
their costs because I'm really

322
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,080
conscious of their burn rates,
right?

323
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,120
Because for these companies,
their share price is their cost

324
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,720
of capital.
That's, that's like, you know,

325
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,200
you have to have way more
dilution than in order to keep

326
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,320
like keeping the lights on the
lower on lower your share price

327
00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:58,480
go.
So in those sort of

328
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,080
environments, like, I think it's
just so, so important to just

329
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,520
like type taper your costs as
much as possible, avoid

330
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,960
excessive dilution and, and
prove that to shareholders in

331
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,400
these quarters, like
highlighted, you know, be, be

332
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,480
like, be, keep it as something
that you measure and you're

333
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,680
proud of and you communicate to,
to shareholders, of course.

334
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,560
And the other, the other one
too, it's same thing.

335
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:24,480
But remember last quarter, we
sort of we, we, we flag to the,

336
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,200
the mining industry.
We're really keen to see some

337
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,160
improvement in waterfall charts
and they make the industry

338
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,680
listen, they delivered waterfall
charts got way better that were

339
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,320
really solid last quarter.
So just, I just want to take

340
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,280
consistency there as well.
Keep the waterfall charts on,

341
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,160
just on.
Like crisp.

342
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,680
Keep them crisp.
Paper bloody just yeah.

343
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,480
Gold stars we'll give you.
We'll give you a Gold Star on

344
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,800
your forward bloody JDI.
Don't think you did this one

345
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,880
last attempt so.
No, it's, it's different.

346
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,400
It didn't make the cut, but
I'll, I'll Chuck it in now the

347
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,640
third thing I'm looking out for
fellas, is the the met coal

348
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,720
players.
So we've gone a little quiet on

349
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,520
them.
The the met coal prices, you

350
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,200
know, really peeled off.
So again, similar to the iron

351
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,440
ore story, the the earnings
won't be anywhere near as good

352
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:14,040
as it was last quarter round.
But you know, like Whitehaven,

353
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,840
Coronado, Stanmore, they're
they're a couple companies.

354
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,160
I'm quite keen to see how
they're performing mainly on the

355
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,040
cost side.
You know, obviously with these

356
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,920
more bog players, a lot of that
has to do with, you know, how

357
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,040
many tonnes they are getting out
the ground and and moving.

358
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,320
But yeah, just just came to see
them managing on that side, not,

359
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,520
not expecting bumper profits or
anything like that.

360
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,720
But I think there's, you know,
as we've been over in the past,

361
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,400
they're a good setup for that
commodity and came to see these

362
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,920
guys the the management teams
and the operations there just

363
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,520
bed down some quarters of solid
production.

364
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,640
You you think, why is it time
for Whitehaven to start

365
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,800
delivering the goods on
Blackwater Doria?

366
00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:59,680
Would it be the the 1st?
Full.

367
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,560
Quarter that they've had it, I
mean they picked it up in the

368
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,240
the first couple days of of
April.

369
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,760
So I think there's, there's a
period of getting familiar with

370
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,280
an asset, you know, I think even
half years a bit too soon to

371
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,480
kind of say I, I think Meadows
Acquisition Corp obviously a

372
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,960
completely different style of
deposit and mine.

373
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,320
But you, you see it, it takes a
while to get into the groove of

374
00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:24,800
a new operation and a new sort
of team.

375
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,400
One thing I am sort of looking
out for, which they've sort of

376
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,360
spoken to in the past is sort of
trimming the, the sort of size

377
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:35,240
of the team and the size of the,
the cost base down to a more

378
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,400
appropriate kind of white Haven
size as opposed to a, you know,

379
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,800
a BMABHB, if you like, kind of
cost base.

380
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,400
So that is something I've got my
eyes peeled on.

381
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,120
I, I, I got to not, I think
they've already proven

382
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:50,000
themselves just in being able to
execute the 20% sell down as a

383
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,080
phenomenal valuation relative to
what they paid for it.

384
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,480
To me that's like that's that's
kind of de risked things

385
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,120
massively with that sell down.
Yeah.

386
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:05,160
I mean on a on a financial side,
you know, pretty much full

387
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,600
marks, but hopefully they can
just yeah, operate it just as

388
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,040
well or even even better really.
So that's that's on the

389
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,160
operational side the the thing
to look out for.

390
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,520
Very good final stop in Maddie's
underground mining tour.

391
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,640
I'll just go.
I'm a lot washed up these days.

392
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,880
I feel I'm trying to keep in
contact with the underground

393
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:30,960
mining industry or a band $1.16
billion market cap now and

394
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,240
they'll think, oh, it's, I swear
on others a bit going on with

395
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,120
CapEx spend and everything with
Sanki.

396
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:41,360
But I think it's time to see
some sort of some sort of free

397
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:45,080
cash flow bill to backfill a bit
of this evaluation.

398
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,680
Like yes, they haven't been
cool, they haven't made money

399
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,240
yet, but they've never had a
good chunk of underground feed

400
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,880
going into the mill and they
should have a lot more of that

401
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,640
this quarter coming out of
Riverina side.

402
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:04,760
They're guiding 100 to 110,000
oz this financial year with all

403
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,800
its starting cost of about
20702050 or something.

404
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,760
So gold price at record highs,
even though they're in

405
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,440
development mode for sinking and
not commencing stopping for next

406
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,840
year.
And look looking at the look

407
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,400
what did they get last quarter?
They got 1919 and a bit 1000 oz

408
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,440
last quarter.
So surely they're going to

409
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,440
bloody you say the upward trend.
Surely they can get bloody start

410
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,160
approaching that bottom end of
gardens that 25,000 oz.

411
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,800
But you look at the waterfall
chart last quarter that W

412
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,840
farmers JV proceeds saved them
again, even though they were one

413
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,560
off Q4 payments.
There's always someone off

414
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,440
payment that rocks up usually.
But look, if I can get close to

415
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:56,480
25,000 oz at that seven, 900
bucks sustaining cash margin,

416
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,360
that should give them $40
million worth of sustaining cash

417
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:03,000
flow.
So look, there's 25 bucks last

418
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,680
quarter for the, you know, mine
development, exploration,

419
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,360
corporate and growth CapEx.
They're foot, but they are

420
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,840
forecasting 88 million in
exploration and growth capital

421
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,520
for FY25.
So that's that's 22 mil 1/4

422
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,320
going out the door.
They add another 16 on what they

423
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,880
spent last quarter.
So it'd be good to see a break

424
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,480
even or slight cash flow
positive.

425
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,280
I know, I know maybe not.
You can't just go off that

426
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,240
guidance and divide it by 4
because the sinking or

427
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,560
development will be coming in
December quarter then possibly

428
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,200
stop and before the end of next
year.

429
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,360
So it will be again back end
weighted with the the

430
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:43,640
underground feed.
But yeah I think the market will

431
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:48,240
want to see some some sort of
break even or God imagine if

432
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,680
they might made cash.
Should be a $3700 realised sale

433
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,120
price on your gold.
Yeah, close to.

434
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,640
The valuation's amazing 1.16
billion.

435
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,320
Yeah, so.
I never, I never would have

436
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,600
thought I'd say that day for.
Especially when he took it over

437
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,120
bloody what, $0.05 or something?
Yeah, Probably 12 bags since

438
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:07,600
then.
Yeah.

439
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,080
So yeah, share price done well,
need to be good to see you make

440
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,200
some cash.
But anyway, the year after that,

441
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,920
hopefully they'll make cash.
But it's more like if you can't,

442
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,840
yeah, you're going to have the
two underground feeds and you're

443
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,520
spending the growth capital.
But if you can't, and you're

444
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,360
saying that's going to make
heaps of cash, you should be

445
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,560
able to make a good bit of cash
out of that one before that

446
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,040
one's getting developed to pay
for that one in theory.

447
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,440
Yeah.
Theory is good.

448
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,560
Let's hope we'll sort of I, I,
yeah, I think they'll be hard

449
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,360
pressed to make money this
quarter, but we'll we'll kind of

450
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:41,320
see.
Break even.

451
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,600
I just want to say break even.
Not asking for a lot.

452
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,960
Yeah, I just wanna I wanna see
break even and I wanna see Tim

453
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,240
Taylor this week.
That's that's about that's on my

454
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,680
To Do List.
You wanna you love seeing Tim

455
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,040
Taylor, don't you?
Every time I.

456
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,480
See, have a have a look at him
right here.

457
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,440
Not this.
Oh shit, wrong.

458
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,520
Tim Taylor not let let me be
clear, not Tim the Toolman

459
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,560
Taylor, but this is Tim the
power to provider Taylor right?

460
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,760
You think power, you think Tim
Taylor, and you think cross

461
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:20,560
boundary energy.
Our new bloody partner Tim and

462
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,720
cross boundary energy.
When you say you think power, I

463
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,640
still think power tools.
Tim Taylor.

464
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,520
Tim Taylor.
Quite fitting, right?

465
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,560
Independent power producers that
have been there and done it in

466
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,160
Africa and mate, they've been in
Australia 18 months and they're

467
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,080
ready.
So they crossed the boundary of

468
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,360
the Indian Ocean.
Did cross the boundaries.

469
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,920
Maybe that's mate.
Well, I think they'll call that

470
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,000
before they cross the boundary.
Yeah, who knows?

471
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,560
But, mate, hybrid power stations
are the thing these days, boys.

472
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,360
Thermal base load.
Yeah.

473
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,120
Hook her up to the nearest gas
line, throw the solar in, throw

474
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,760
the wind turbines in, throw the
stationary storage in, Mate.

475
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,960
Cross boundary.
They'll they'll build it.

476
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,560
They'll own it, they'll operate
it.

477
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,880
And mate, they'll whip one up at
your mine site quicker than you

478
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,160
can say Tim Taylor.
Give bloody Tim Taylor a call.

479
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,960
His numbers in the shy nights
he's in and around Perth.

480
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:16,920
Cheers.
Cross boundary.

481
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,920
Get a bloody hybrid power
station.

482
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,040
India.
Good ASI.

483
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,080
Love it.
That build and operate model is

484
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,440
an interesting one because yeah,
removes the kind of like the the

485
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:27,680
funding issue to try to get
there, but.

486
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,120
It's just easier.
Why try do it all yourself?

487
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,880
The old sheds full of diesel
generators.

488
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,800
Old news.
Don't worry about them.

489
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,640
Cross boundary will give you a
bloody good hybrid 1 you beauty

490
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,320
right eye or Cisco buys Tembo
Spartan royalty.

491
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,200
So I thought maybe bloody.
Yeah, not to terror.

492
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:52,480
It's a Cisco, so it could have
been a Datera royalty.

493
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,800
Nah, I think, I think the
terrorists pitch as they were

494
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,520
looking to diversify their
phenomenal maxi royalty was

495
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,520
always like they'll they'll look
for base metal royalties and I

496
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,800
think even the Trident, which
they they've ended up, you know,

497
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,760
acquiring that they talk about,
you know, potentially divesting

498
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,600
Trident sort of precious like
some, I think some streams and

499
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,240
stuff like that that are
precious related.

500
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,080
But they'll they might, they
might offload them.

501
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,880
It's hard to compete in the in
the precious space because they

502
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,400
for whatever reason like yeah, I
don't quite understand why, but

503
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,440
precious royalties are worth
more than non precious

504
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,320
royalties.
Just like gold companies like

505
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,320
have a lower discount rate than
non gold companies, which like

506
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,760
when you value when broke his
value and they which I want a 5%

507
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:38,840
discount.
It makes no sense to me.

508
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,480
Anyway, anyway, well this is
like another bit of cash tend by

509
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,400
to get in addition to the share
price accretion of the spark.

510
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,560
That's the story, right?
Like in normally private equity

511
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,080
has like chequered returns in,
in, in mining, but I was kind of

512
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,320
keen to highlight an example of
when it actually comes off

513
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:01,000
today, the royalty company is
this go they've acquired from

514
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,520
private equity group Tembo
Capital the the royalties over

515
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,760
Spartans projects, which picked
up as part of when they

516
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,440
cornerstones.
The the recap of of that it was

517
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,560
gas going back in, in February
last year.

518
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,520
Is this go what they're stumping
up is US $50 million for the for

519
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:22,240
the royalties, which you know
includes this 1.8% gross revenue

520
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,040
royalty over over Delgaranga,
which you can think of as their

521
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,200
never never deposit these days.
Very interestingly, Spartan

522
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,680
actually they have a a right to
buy back 20% of that royalty for

523
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,520
Aussie 3.15 million, which
intercourse I think they've gone

524
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,800
until 2027 to make that
decision, but they absolutely

525
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,760
will do that.
So in reality, as this go is

526
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,760
paying a smidge under 50 million
bucks for a 1.44% gross revenue

527
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,200
royalty.
When you net off the effect of

528
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,280
that 20% buy back.
That alone is is interesting,

529
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,440
right, Because if you assume the
Spot gold price and sort of

530
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,480
Spartan producing like $150,000
oz per annum, then it'll take

531
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,200
sort of 10 years for as this go
to get that 50 million U.S.

532
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,640
dollars back.
So yeah, just like it's a long,

533
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,040
long payback period royalties,
people, people buy them not

534
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,120
necessarily for what's in like
the future mind plan, but what

535
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:16,040
the what the extra could be in a
great extension scenarios and

536
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,480
all that sort of stuff.
Especially considering how like

537
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,960
when that royalty got in place,
like one like, oh, oh, you could

538
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:26,880
think it like they've, they've
explored down to a kilometre

539
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,080
deep now, like there and there's
potential for repeats and

540
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,240
everything.
So like that, that tenure could,

541
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,720
yeah, could be well, more than a
10 year.

542
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,960
You would anticipate it'd be
much longer than a 10 year mine

543
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,480
life, put it, put it that way.
It's funny you hear PLS on talk

544
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,200
about like starting Franco
Nevada and he's like the best.

545
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,680
The best deal I ever did was the
first royalty deal and he paid

546
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,680
$2,000,000 for for the the
royalty which is now just

547
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,560
printed.
Oh, God knows how much, but it's

548
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,560
the the cornerstone acid of
Franco Nevada's. 2 with shit

549
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,960
load more zeros, yeah.
Because I think it's a gold.

550
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,520
Obviously this is a, a sort of,
you know, like like all the kind

551
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,680
of NSR royalties we we talk
about.

552
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,840
It's the top line as well.
So gold keeps Karen away and

553
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,000
you're just chalking off a a
percent of that can be can be a

554
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,920
beautiful thing in in due time.
Exactly the the more the more

555
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,120
fascinating part of the deal to
me is that is this like stellar

556
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,760
return of of Tembos in a short
period of time.

557
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,880
If you go back to the start of
2023, like Spartan was still

558
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,680
called gas coin and they were,
that was suspended from the,

559
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,720
from quotation on ASX boards
because they were, they were

560
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,840
working through a
recapitalisation after making

561
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,800
the, the tough call to switch
off the mill at, at Dalgaranga.

562
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,840
So like they were, they were in
suspension trying to put this

563
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,080
recap together.
And like when you turn off the

564
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,760
mill, there's like, I think that
debt they had to get rid of

565
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,520
their, you got a bunch of one
off cost because you, you know,

566
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,760
like a bunch of contracts get
terminated and your staff people

567
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:00,880
get paid out all that sort of
stuff.

568
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,640
So you've got to get money to
make all that happen.

569
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,400
And it appeared from the outside
like it was pretty hard work for

570
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,560
them to actually raise the money
they needed to because no one

571
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,560
wanted to touch gas coin.
Every investor in WA Gold had

572
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,160
lost money and a lot of money on
gas coin already.

573
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,960
But the thing that was, was
different was the fact that

574
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,320
never, never had already been
like discovered I think like 5

575
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,560
months earlier.
And it was, they were still

576
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:27,920
drilling it out and proving it
out.

577
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,280
But hearing was the opportunity
for the sort of savvy investor

578
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,800
or private equity group such as
Tembo because they came in and

579
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,840
they cornerstone the $50 million
recap of of gas coins by

580
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,200
underwriting it a 22.6 million
dollar cheque.

581
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,440
That was that consisted of $16.3
million to buy shares at $0.10

582
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,960
each in in the recap, plus a 6.3
million dollar cheque for for

583
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,920
the royalty which we're the
royalties which we're talking

584
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,360
about in this story here, all in
Aussie dollars there.

585
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,360
Yeah.
And then I 'cause I think I'll

586
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,680
go through it in a bit like the
Never, never resource, we got

587
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,040
300,000 oz just coming up before
the recap.

588
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,400
So that was that was the selling
point like potentially got this.

589
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,360
Totally, totally.
Yeah, totally.

590
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,040
And.
The rebrand of Begin.

591
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,880
And the recap, like the recap
was interesting because you

592
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,440
cleaned up the balance sheet,
you properly capitalised the

593
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,320
company with enough cash to, you
know, prove out this like sexy

594
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,200
new discovery.
But it was still a pretty

595
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,600
unloved company because of the
the history that Gascoyne had,

596
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,680
the underwhelming history that
Gascoyne had, and Gas Coin soon

597
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,520
became Spartan.
Spartan raised a lot more money

598
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,400
as never never grew.
But Tembo never tipped in any

599
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,320
more money.
They did sell a block of 47

600
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,520
million shares at $0.89 back in
May of this year.

601
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,080
To Remelia so.
But they held on to the rest,

602
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:54,320
which which today is 9.95% of
the company and that's valued at

603
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,760
about $152 million in Australian
bucks.

604
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,560
So while while Tembo still holds
those shares, I did some math

605
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,600
on, on what their kind of mark
to market return has been in on

606
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,840
their Spartan investment.
This this, this math is before

607
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,440
taking into account kind of tax
or transaction costs.

608
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:17,080
But like on the on the shares
alone, that $16.3 million

609
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,760
investment has delivered them a
435% IRR and a 12.2 times

610
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,040
multiple on on their money in
roughly 18 months.

611
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,080
Bloody hell.
That that that the royalty

612
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,280
investment is not dissimilar
either that $6.3 million just

613
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:36,560
just sold the US $50 million
which is a 362% IRR and and 11.5

614
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,120
times multiple on money again in
18 months.

615
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,960
God, yeah, good that.
No matter how you cut it, it's

616
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,720
it's a remarkable, remarkable
return in like, you know, the

617
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:49,360
world of of mining investment.
And like, it's not like all P ES

618
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:50,880
that way.
In fact, you know, Tembo on the

619
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,720
same period of time, we've had
some some doozies in like Strand

620
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,120
line and bloody true North.
Yeah.

621
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,440
So it's not, these are the
exceptions about the rules, but

622
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,000
I think there are some takeaways
from it too, like just kind of

623
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,080
observing it like, you know
what, what do you, what do you

624
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,520
think?
JDI think the you know, the the

625
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:13,520
contrarianism really stands out.
And like you, you said gas going

626
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,400
at the time what became Spartan
was just so hated.

627
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:23,120
And I I remember well into 2023,
so 6 months plus after the

628
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,080
recapitalization of the
business, which is in and of

629
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:32,520
itself, you know, a a year plus,
almost 18 months from when never

630
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,200
never had first been hit.
And people didn't even want to

631
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,720
say the name Gascoigne that
that's what really stood out,

632
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,880
that sort of contrarianism.
Obviously gold was perhaps a a

633
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,000
little less love, but you know,
gold was by no means in the

634
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,840
doghouse, but the the asset that
the company itself was just so

635
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,960
hated.
And these guys, you know, took,

636
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,440
took that risk and you know,
they deserve full credit for the

637
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,480
returns they've delivered on
this one 'cause they went

638
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,680
somewhere where a lot of other
people didn't want to go.

639
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,720
No, I think the, the royalty was
the the thing they had to sort

640
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,480
of they got bent over for a bit
like they had the recap, but the

641
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,840
royalty they had to give to
Tebow and the one to Deutsche

642
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,080
Belt on that was sort of the.
Let's not get into that one.

643
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:16,920
Haven't.
We we don't.

644
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,480
We don't want to do it, but
we've got no choice.

645
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:20,760
Isn't that, isn't that
fascinating?

646
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:21,679
Right, because.
Well, there were.

647
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,000
There was a choice, to be clear.
On yeah, I remember a lot.

648
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,199
Well, I think there were part.
There were part.

649
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:30,760
It sounded like it sounded like
there were offers, but they were

650
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,480
even worse.
Yeah, Tembo dictate the price,

651
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,600
right.
They dictated the the price when

652
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,719
they cornerstone the investment
and that's how you can get it

653
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,320
away at what was pretty much a
like a 50% discount to what it

654
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,239
last traded at.
Like if you there and as you

655
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:52,159
said, like gold, gold wasn't
hated then like it just it just

656
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,080
wasn't near as bloody where it
is now.

657
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,000
A lot of the price was God, was
it?

658
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,240
It was just above 3000 bucks an
ounce.

659
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:04,280
I think can't remember actually,
but it definitely wasn't friggin

660
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,400
3800 Aussie.
That's that's that's for sure.

661
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,480
But sorry, because you imagine
say if this happened today, I

662
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,640
don't know, you can't sort of
you can't.

663
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,120
This is not an apples apples
sort of thing.

664
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,400
But say the whole gas coin thing
happened.

665
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:18,760
You did have that infrastructure
there.

666
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,360
As I said that 300,000 ounces in
resource at 4.6 grammes.

667
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,320
They were releasing hits just
before it of 18 1/2 metres.

668
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,720
It's 17.9 grammes, 300 odd
metres down hall.

669
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:38,520
So like do you, do you think
today with all that at this gold

670
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,320
price you would have struggled
to get 50 million in the door to

671
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,520
keep it going?
Would have been a bit different

672
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,600
I think.
It would be different.

673
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:51,360
It's, it's, it's always easy in
hindsight to, to, to reconcile

674
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,320
kind of when, when people's,
when the consensus was, was

675
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,120
wrong and like recognise that,
you know, maybe there's

676
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:00,840
something more exciting here
than the markets attributing.

677
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,480
But like, you know, that what I
put to you is like, what if,

678
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,560
what if there was a new gold
discovery at Wiluna tomorrow and

679
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,400
they, they had to raise a bunch
of money and kind of, you know,

680
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,360
fund the drill out of that.
I still think you would have a

681
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,960
lot of like a lot of typical
kind of, you know, gold

682
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,800
investors out there funds who
are just like, no, I can't, I

683
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,320
can't touch that.
I'm not putting any money.

684
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,800
I've got to be the next Walloda
guy, yeah.

685
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,920
Yeah, because certain projects
have certain reputations of just

686
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,000
destroying capital, and Delgre
Angle is one of those.

687
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,240
But the the, the, the thing that
changed was a new discovery.

688
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,200
Walloda's done it one, one or
two more times, yeah, than

689
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,320
Delgre Ranger did.
The the lesson is not the the

690
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,120
next opportunity is going to be
a gold company with a mind that

691
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,520
wasn't getting the recoveries up
there was lower grade that

692
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,360
discovers, you know, a higher
grade deposit 400 metres nearby.

693
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:57,480
That is way too simple.
And every every fundy under the

694
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,200
sun, every retail investor would
cotton on.

695
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,520
It's going to be in a different
part of the world.

696
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,600
It'll be a different commodity.
It, it will be a different

697
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,040
situation with, you know,
rhythms that are the same, you

698
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,720
know, similarities into it.
And that's what the, you know,

699
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:14,560
investors out there like, you
know, ourselves included, need

700
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,440
to be aware of.
That's the lesson to take away

701
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,920
because the opportunity is never
going to be carbon copy of of

702
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,800
what's gone.
By no, the other lesson I take

703
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,480
away too Jada is like you can be
you can afford to be patient in

704
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:31,120
like in these markets, because
there will be opportunities to

705
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,120
like invest when absolutely
everything is kind of in your

706
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:36,800
favour and your downside is so
protected.

707
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,280
You know, like in the case of
this you had a new discovery,

708
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,960
you had a recap balance sheet,
you had like an infrastructure

709
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,320
and you know like and you're and
the EV of the company was sweet

710
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,640
fuck all like you know those
it's almost like it's not like

711
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,480
these things never come around.
They do kind of come around and

712
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,200
sort of saw what the share price
did since, but I think I think

713
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,800
we we often have a bias to
action trade frequently, but I

714
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,920
think inaction actually can lead
to superior results when you

715
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,440
just you kind of you wait for
the home run to come like.

716
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:13,440
And think about, yeah, think
about the the negotiation

717
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,200
itself, managing to do it at a
50% discount to the last close.

718
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,400
Like the, the, the turns that
they've earned, you know, the

719
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,440
extra multiples on their money
by dictating what to them was

720
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,840
obviously such good turns has
proved to be phenomenal.

721
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,160
Like the returns are so
different.

722
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,160
If they're done it at 14 cents,
12 cents, $0.10, like the the

723
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,840
how that went down there, you
know, I would have loved to have

724
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,160
been a flower on the wall
because that ends up juicing the

725
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,040
returns phenomenally.
I still remember with, with

726
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,760
Spartan when they got up to
about $0.50 and it was just

727
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,760
looking like never, never is
like the strike length is a bit

728
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:54,600
of limit to the scale of it.
The, the lateral discoveries

729
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,520
one, I think one of them didn't
prove up.

730
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,040
I forget which one.
Patient wolf, patient, patient

731
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:00,840
wolf.
Yeah.

732
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,840
And it was like, oh, Gee, this
is probably kept.

733
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,360
But then they, you know, I
drilled deep and never, never

734
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:11,040
pinched, blew out in strike a
bit They and it just kept going.

735
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,160
Then gold price ripped and
bloody.

736
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,920
It's nearly tripled since then.
It's like, yeah, dumb ass

737
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,520
pepper, pepper, pepper.
Yeah, pepper, pepper that sort

738
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:20,960
of.
Yeah.

739
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,120
Added another lens to it, so not
at the same scale, but yeah,

740
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,200
God, bloody good patience for
people that bloody hung in

741
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:29,960
there.
Good on you.

742
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:32,680
Bloody brilliant.
It's well and it's interesting.

743
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,720
It's, I know it's, it's chopping
around a bit at the moment

744
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:40,720
anyway, but it's down nearly 5%
today, a bit more than some of

745
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:42,760
the other girls.
Like what's the read through on

746
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,440
is, is this anything?
What, what's the sentiment of

747
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,520
this royalty sale?
I don't know positive or

748
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:49,840
negative.
Yeah, I thought, I thought it

749
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,400
was worth highlighting that they
are a bit more down today than

750
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,160
the, the PR kind of goldies.
And like Tembo, they still hold

751
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,400
9.9%.
And if they've sold the royalty,

752
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,000
like I'm sure they've kept their
stake because you, you, you

753
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,520
wanna like, if there's, if
there's a potential of, you

754
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,040
know, coming.
Competitive outcome here in a

755
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,920
change of control then heck,
like it's a it's a handy bit of

756
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,200
upside to still be exposed to,
but but maybe at the same time,

757
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,160
you could still have some, some
some people might read the sale

758
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,080
of the royalties like, OK,
they're ready to just kind of,

759
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,360
you know, they're happy with
their investment, happy to go

760
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,720
and they they might in fact,
that that stock might be a bit

761
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:27,800
of an overhang if it's if it's
to be placed to other parties

762
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,560
now.
Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to

763
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,120
getting a gown if that bloody if
that if Dalgar Anger gets Harmon

764
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,480
and look, they're heading down
to 1 kilometres Deacon deep and

765
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,640
can find a bloody repeat.
Like it's just that perfect

766
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,280
opportunity to set that line up
for life.

767
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,920
Do it right from the start and
just set up one of the bloody

768
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,400
one of the best gold operations
in in WA because you can set it

769
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,120
up good.
You don't want people leaving

770
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,920
because it's shit.
And that's why Grounded need to

771
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,840
get up there boys, and make that
camp bigger and better.

772
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,480
For the long term, tell me about
this.

773
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,400
Tell me bloody oh mate, we've
bloody another mob.

774
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,080
Bloody.
I love talking about people.

775
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:12,360
Have a look at this Black.
This is Mr Grounded Paul Natoli,

776
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,960
the most trustworthy mining camp
and infrastructure developer in

777
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,560
Australia.
I believe that.

778
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,640
That is him.
I've heard that from multiple

779
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,800
people.
Like you can either skimp on

780
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,160
your camp, have a bare bones
bloody donga shit show, or get

781
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,840
Paulie and the bloody grounded
team up there to sex up the

782
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,960
living shit out of your mind
sight so that no one ever

783
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:36,760
leaves.
Mate, how do you get good people

784
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,120
if you don't have a bloody good
camp?

785
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,320
Oh.
Exactly they they will grounded.

786
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,080
They make the camps that bloody
good.

787
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:43,960
You don't want it.
People don't even want to go

788
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,160
home and see their family like
they just stay up there on break

789
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,760
like they are that bloody good.
Be like Albemarle, be like

790
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:55,760
Fortescue, be like BHP Rio.
Shit load of other mobs that get

791
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,120
bloody grounded to the You can
build your camp, refurbish the

792
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,000
camp, your workshops, your
offices, anything that is on top

793
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,560
of dirt.
Grounded buddy sorted out for

794
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,360
you.
Oh, mate, can't buddy.

795
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,840
How good, how good looking is
that Blaze?

796
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,880
Oh, what a champion.
Oh, love your bloody work.

797
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,000
Grounded grotto, JD.
We're heading deep.

798
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,600
We're heading hot.
We're heading a resolution

799
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,760
copper mine.
We are, mate.

800
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,200
I'm keen to talk about a bit of
copper.

801
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:31,520
So, you know, Resolution is a
fascinating, fascinating joint

802
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:37,520
venture between Rio and BHB and
why I think it's so interesting

803
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,720
and I think the, the money
miners will as well, is it sort

804
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:43,840
of encapsulates all the
challenges with, with mining in

805
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,160
the western world in one
project.

806
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,360
You've got permitting delays
that have gone on over a decade.

807
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,920
You've got challenges getting
all the various stakeholders on

808
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,960
board.
You've got a 25 plus year

809
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,360
timeline from when you first hit
the copper till you, you know,

810
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:02,600
potentially producing copper.
And you know, this is for a

811
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,240
copper mine.
It's, it's not a thermal coal

812
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:07,960
mine.
It's, you know, it's deep, it's

813
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,560
challenging, but it's in
America.

814
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,840
It's in line with all the kind
of thinking that the governments

815
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,680
have been saying.
So for for those sorts of

816
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,040
reasons, I think I'm kind of
keen to keen to chat about it

817
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,560
with you guys.
Right mate, tell us a bit about

818
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,920
resolution.
It's very unique in a way, and

819
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,040
how the fuck they find those
things is bloody beyond me.

820
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,920
But anyway.
It is, it's, it's a super sort

821
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,240
of fascinating project.
So the, the kind of overview of

822
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:42,600
the, the project itself is it
sits 60 miles east of Phoenix,

823
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:47,120
discovered back in 1995 in a
historic mining area.

824
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,200
So Rio and BHB formed this
resolution joint venture.

825
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:57,960
It's 55% Rio, 45% BHB.
In the early 2000s, BHB had done

826
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:04,600
a a big deal, a $3.2 billion
deal to buy Magma Superior at

827
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:09,320
the at the very tail end of
1995, early 96 sort of turned

828
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,680
out to be a real dust out of an
investment, but that's kind of

829
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,200
how they got there tie in in the
region.

830
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,600
I had no idea about that too.
I'm gonna have to look into that

831
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,840
1 today.
Mate, I was reading some

832
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,560
fascinating stuff, Trevor Sykes
articles and stuff from the the

833
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,760
late 1990s.
Yeah, some some really

834
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,000
interesting stuff.
They're talking about selling it

835
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,000
less than two years after
spending all that, that money on

836
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,640
it.
So it it did actually come with

837
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:35,560
a a couple of South American
copper assets too.

838
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,840
But the North American assets
were real dusters for them.

839
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,760
But in 1995 some geos sunk a
hole and they discovered this

840
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,240
ore body.
So it sits between 1500 metres

841
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:51,800
and 2100 metres below surface.
It's got a resource of 1.7

842
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:57,040
billion tonnes at 1.5% copper.
So the, the JV wants to produce

843
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,320
400,000 tonnes of copper per
annum, which could account for

844
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,520
about 25% of the US as copper
needs.

845
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,800
And they want to do the, the
smelting in country as well.

846
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:14,080
The the mine method is a, a
potential block cave.

847
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,040
Now that ties in with a lot of
the kind of challenges, but is,

848
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,800
you know, it's obviously the
only kind of economic means of

849
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:26,800
extracting this, this type of
this, this type of ore body.

850
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,480
So there's a couple shafts that
are there, like one of them was

851
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:35,320
pushed down a bit deeper.
It was initially sort of sunk in

852
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,280
the early 1970s.
So there's a bit of piggybacking

853
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,160
going on that infrastructure
that was there from back in the

854
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,040
day with a, you know, a few more
shafts that need to be sunk.

855
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:50,440
So the, the group has spent over
$2 billion US already a good

856
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,680
portion on engineering, but a
decent amount has gone into

857
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,040
infrastructure for the meanwhile
they're sort of working on that,

858
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,720
that permitting in the in the
background.

859
00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:03,160
That's the that's the thing,
whenever I I hear resolution, I

860
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,600
always just like just get the,
the jitters down the spine

861
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,360
because you know, it's just a
permitting nightmare.

862
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,920
There's, there's so there's so
many different First Nations

863
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,520
groups and that has with, with
all of the kind of the, the land

864
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,560
disturbance that's required.
But the operation, you just know

865
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,800
it's been held up forever and it
to me, it's never, it's never

866
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,480
seem like they're really getting
very far.

867
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,640
But it's the tide turned, mate.
I think when the fact that it's

868
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,640
like just, you know, notorious,
I say, oh, underground mines are

869
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,280
less disturbance, yadda, yadda,
yadda, But not when they're a

870
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:40,320
block cave because that's just a
big massive sinkhole that is

871
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,960
created on the surface forever
that keeps sinking and sinking.

872
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:48,000
And I assume that backfill it
and everything, but that is

873
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,640
essentially a big pit on the
surface due to the subsidies.

874
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,880
Yeah, Crater.
Yeah, essentially just bloody

875
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,120
keeps going.
So, So what you 2 guys have just

876
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:58,880
said there is, is the crux of
the problem.

877
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,920
They're talking about a, you
know, an area of disturbance

878
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,080
that's kind of two kilometres, 2
miles long Maddie that will sink

879
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,040
300 metres down over a / a long
period of time.

880
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,480
Like this is an initial 40 year
mine life.

881
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,400
Jakub Salzem talks about 50-60,
seventy years.

882
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,600
So it'll, it'll take a while,
but what sits above it is this

883
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,280
land that belongs to America.
And that's at the kind of core

884
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,520
of the, this land exchange that
needs to take place before they

885
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,160
can undertake further
construction and mining.

886
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,720
And that land, Oak Flats, is
what the, the Native American

887
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:40,400
groups, which you spoke to their
tribe say is sacred ground to

888
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,080
them.
And you know, where they don't

889
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,760
want disturbance.
Plus there's a couple sort of

890
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,680
water concerns which we are sort
of think they've addressed, but

891
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,640
it's still sort of mentioned by
these Native American groups.

892
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,960
But to kind of put it all in a,
in a nutshell, this permitting

893
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,280
process is the hold up.
It started in sort of 2013.

894
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,800
There was a lot of back and
forth with the the USFS.

895
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,880
They published this final
environmental impact statement

896
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,360
in 21.
Then you had this other

897
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,720
government department come in
and say it needs to be

898
00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:14,200
rescinded.
They need to do a bit more work

899
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,320
on it.
But they're, they're getting

900
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,000
close.
And Rio think they're, they're

901
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,240
quite confident they can do this
land exchange, which is

902
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:25,120
essentially just Rio giving some
money, sorry, some land to the

903
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,600
federal government in exchange
for that land that sits above

904
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,440
the deposit which they need for
the mine.

905
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:36,760
There has been cases in the US
appeals court for some time, but

906
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,360
they initially got approval in
2014 pending the EIS, and this

907
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,760
was upheld again earlier this
year.

908
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,520
So that sort of speaks to why
Rio are a bit more confident

909
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:50,760
that after 20 plus years, this
thing will be mined before the

910
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:51,640
end of the decade.
Oh.

911
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,840
It's like I looked at your The
shaft they're piggybacking off

912
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:01,840
is from the Magma mine, which
sounds friggin hot.

913
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:06,560
It's like like a garden well
that had a lot of water.

914
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,040
Anything with magma you'd assume
is bloody hot.

915
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,080
It's those, it's those.
Well, I'm guessing magma because

916
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,200
there's like some volcanic
thing, but that's the same thing

917
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,720
that puts the bloody copper
there in the first place.

918
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:15,840
Yeah, well, exactly.
God, yeah.

919
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,800
Bloody so rude, isn't it?
But then like, because you got

920
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,280
the you got the rock temperature
heat, but then you got the auto

921
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,360
compression of the air.
There will be some might talk

922
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,840
about the biggest friggin
refrigeration system you'd have

923
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,600
to put in the gate.
Cool that joint down that day.

924
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:35,360
100%, yes, Some of the articles
we're talking about 150°F down

925
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:36,640
there.
So that is.

926
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,760
Well, that'd be.
I'd assume that's the.

927
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,360
Yeah, probably.
What's 150°F?

928
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,320
What's that about 50° or
something?

929
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,160
40 or 50?
Yeah, Yeah, that's probably the

930
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:49,680
rock temperature.
And then?

931
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:51,080
Yeah, yeah, the rock
temperature.

932
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:51,960
That's right.
So I.

933
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,840
Think, and I suppose the best
thing about block goes once you

934
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:56,720
do get them going like yeah they
can.

935
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,480
It can be pretty automated like
with the the loading and

936
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:06,400
everything and like you can have
probably electric loaders like

937
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,440
say to minimise the height and
and things like that.

938
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,160
And obviously you haven't got
truck as many trucks down there

939
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,800
if bugger roll 'cause you got a
shot hoisting system so but it'd

940
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,400
still be bloody hot yeah.
He still dates some people down

941
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,560
there, but he.
Yeah, absolutely.

942
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,640
So there's a fair bit of
infrastructure sunk and there's

943
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,360
some fascinating deep dive
articles that that show a lot of

944
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:28,720
photos.
You can kind of see what's been

945
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:31,200
put in place over the years and
years and years.

946
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,280
But I think we should hear from
Jakob Styles.

947
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,960
I'm the the Rio boss.
What he kind of said at I

948
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,520
believe he was talking at the
LMA week, speaking with

949
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,960
Bloomberg about them wanting to
get this one humming before the

950
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,040
end of the decade.
Your supply chain you're still

951
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:47,800
dealing with just the permitting
of this project.

952
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,560
When can we actually see it
working?

953
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,000
Yeah, it's a long process.
Where we are now is that we are

954
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:58,240
in the in the place of need to
have a land swap so that we some

955
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:00,480
of this federal land we have
agreed how we can swap without

956
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,200
some other land so that we have
the whole land.

957
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,520
Then we can finalise the
environmental, all the

958
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,880
environmental impact
consultations, consultations

959
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,360
with local communities and then
we can start executing a

960
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,160
project.
So we are talking towards the

961
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,800
end of of the decade that we can
have production, but then we

962
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,280
will have production for the
next 60 years.

963
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,120
So I think it's pretty, pretty
clear there guys, you know,

964
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,320
complete the land swap, finalise
the EIS with community

965
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,840
consultation and then
construction.

966
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,720
So hopefully that goes well.
Hopefully they get the, the

967
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:34,440
stakeholder buy in and they can,
you know, convince people of the

968
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,880
merits.
And you know, for the country's

969
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,840
sake there in America, they'll
be reducing a lot of their

970
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:45,520
copper needs in country, which
is a real sort of positive for

971
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,280
for them as a whole for their
industrial base that they're

972
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,120
trying to build back up there.
Yeah, yes, that's got to be a

973
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,640
big bod.
Imagine when Rayo get like God,

974
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,920
if they ever get this gown
coupled with are you Tolgoi,

975
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,360
Buddy Simeon do well, get that
up and going.

976
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:03,960
Well, that's the operations.
Yeah.

977
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,480
And if you if you were to think
like 1212 months ago, what are

978
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,680
the three big growth projects
Rayo have that they've they've

979
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,080
just had stalled for for the
longest period of time SIM and

980
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,080
do check that's now like about
to ramp up and all that sort of

981
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,800
stuff.
It's this like, and then it's

982
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,880
also yada.
And let's, let's hope, let's

983
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:24,520
hope they can get this.
Up.

984
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,360
That's the Serbian one, yeah.
Yeah.

985
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There was like I said, there was

986
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:35,280
some deep dive articles that
have come out over over the last

987
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,120
decade really.
And you know, just back on on

988
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,840
resolution.
They they really captured the

989
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:47,320
the the back and forth that is
playing out in in society.

990
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,640
A lot of people sort of prow it
understanding that things like

991
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,800
this need to happen and then
people taking the kind of

992
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,880
opposite views.
So, yeah, if if anyone is, you

993
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,000
know, interested for whatever
reason wants to learn more about

994
00:52:59,000 --> 00:52:59,960
this.
There was actually a pretty

995
00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:02,840
interesting book that came out
the war below by this this

996
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,320
Reuters journalist and it it
went from this operation to to

997
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:10,000
Pebble Creek to Rilight Ridge.
A lot of these projects in

998
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:14,240
America and just talking about
the challenges, why, you know,

999
00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:17,680
it takes, I think the number
came out a month or two ago, 29

1000
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:22,120
years from discovery to get a
mine into production in the US

1001
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,920
And it's all these kind of
challenges that need to be

1002
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,520
solved, but kind of need to be
solved a bit quicker if they're

1003
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,000
to address a few of their
challenges, right?

1004
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,600
Totally.
Oh very good boys, love your

1005
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,040
bloody work.
That's said day 2 is better than

1006
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:41,600
day one.
But not nothing is better than

1007
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:46,680
bloody getting a contract with
MMS right now today get people

1008
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:50,240
ready to move dirt and tell you
exactly how to do it.

1009
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,160
And the new bloody partners
grounded and cross boundary

1010
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,000
energy.
Mate, it's all go the Sandvik

1011
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,920
ground support division.
I love saying the word Sandvik.

1012
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,800
It's so good.
See ya RE insurance, Greenland's

1013
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,760
equipment, K drill, we've got a
couple of old timers coming back

1014
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,680
to say g'day and MMTS and
Australian earthworks and

1015
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:17,160
knowledge part of the anytime
exploration fingers in pies

1016
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:17,920
group.
Love it.

1017
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:22,280
Love your bloody work and our
great friends at Spark Uduru

1018
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,320
Money Miners.
Uduru guys.

1019
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:26,800
Beauty, Let's hope that work
day.

1020
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,160
Second time's always better.
The information contained in

1021
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,000
this episode of Money of Mine is
of general nature only and does

1022
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,760
not take into account the
objectives, financial situation

1023
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,840
or needs of any particular
person.

1024
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,160
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

1025
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,240
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

1026
00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:48,920
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.