The Lundin Legacy (Adam & Jack Lundin)

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Lundin's Jonas Darling, what are
that?

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What does that name mean to you?
Mate Langdanes is a name

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synonymous with long term
thinking with value creation in

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our industry, isn't it?
Absolute blockbuster names.

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Yeah, I think of our industry
like we love it, the mining

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industry.
It's got it's got a remarkable

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ability to reward like a long
term patient thoughtful capital

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and and also tends to punish the
careless in the, you know, the

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careless kind of capital in our
industry.

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When you're when you're a
visionary combined with that

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long term capital thinking, you
really do get rewarded.

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And I think the London's have a
habit of being rewarded, but

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it's not coincidence, it's by
design.

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Yeah, yeah, I think you're spot
on, mate.

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And there and there is a
formula.

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It's it's simple on on paper,
it's incredibly hard to

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replicate.
That's why not everyone has the

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success that their family has.
You know, they go to places

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people don't want to go.
They're very disciplined when it

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comes to capital.
They have a tremendous amount of

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a can do attitude.
You know, no guts, No Glory is

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famously the the name of the
biography of Adolf Lundin, the

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grandfather of the two gentlemen
we're we're speaking with today.

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And the proof is in the pudding
when you look at the companies

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that have been built.
Fruita del Norte comes to mind.

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It is it is amazing to to see
the value creation of of that

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asset in in Ecuador and the
emerging for Kunia district is

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certainly on our mind as we've
we've been running the the pod

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podcast, the London's, you know,
fingerprints are are all over.

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You know, what are what are some
very like these?

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These are phenomenal mining
districts that are emerging in

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front of us that are are gonna
gonna be fruitful for for

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decades and decades and and and
and the London's are, are

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instrumental in in their
development.

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You're so right.
I'm, I'm super excited to share

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this conversation.
And just to put 1 little

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anecdote into the idea that
nothing happens overnight.

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These guys started looking
through their father in

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Argentina in the late 1980s.
Now we're talking about the

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vicuna being built out in, in
the next few years, in the next

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few decades for something that
could produce over the next 100

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years.
And we quiz them a lot about the

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vicuna, about all the companies
in their stable of assets.

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And I'm very excited to to share
the conversation with Jack and

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Adam Monday night.
I've got a sense of of both

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humility and absolute hunger for
the challenge.

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Money miners enjoy.
Daddy.

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I have to pinch myself when I,
when I say who Our guests are on

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the line right now.
We've got Jack Lundeen and Adam

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Lundeen joining us.
Gentlemen, thank you so much for

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for speaking with us.
Welcome to Money of mine.

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Now, thank you guys.
It's great to be here.

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Big fans of the show and you
guys have a good audience in

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Canada, so happy to be able to
make this work.

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But we're stoked to hear that
it's it's not often, I mean,

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mining is such a niche like part
of the world.

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And yeah, the like rock stars in
mining are still not rock stars.

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But it's not often that we
actually interview someone who

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needs no introduction.
And and and and.

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You guys actually need no
introduction.

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Don't know about that, but no,
we appreciate it.

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It's going to be great to have a
conversation with with you guys

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and we've been following the
show for some time and I think

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was it a year or two ago Jamie
Beck was on.

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Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
So it's been, it's been really

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cool for us to to say the, you
know, the last few years of

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evolution within the assets,
within the stable of companies

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and the, the, the broader family
of, of assets and businesses

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involved.
And it's, it's been a dramatic

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rise up in, in the last year,
but that's often the, the

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payback you get for many, many
years of work.

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And you know, you and the family
before you've been in Argentina

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since the late 80s, as I sort of
understand it.

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So I'm really curious to start
the conversation about the, the

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philosophy that that you guys
have that's been instilled

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within you guys and, and you
press on into the, the

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organization about how you build
value in mining organizations.

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And just want to hear you guys
sort of riff on that.

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Yeah, I think it like obviously
start with our our grandpa

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getting into the business, you
really want to get a natural

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resources and it's a tough,
tough barrier to to enter the

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space.
So it's mainly on the

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exploration side.
And then our dad and and uncle

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really like turning them into
businesses.

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And then now Jack and I in the
broader group like we want to

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do, you know, explore well,
build well and and produce well.

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And it was really like at the
beginning, you know, you kind of

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just, you never had the ability
to, to take a salary anyways.

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So as you know, you're just a
shareholder in the business and

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it was all about creating
shareholder and stakeholder

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value.
And that just kind of trickle

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through today where, you know,
ultra aligned with, with

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shareholders and have a lot of
skin in the game.

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And, you know, we're normally
like the first ones in and, and

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the last ones out and, and don't
really exit until there's an

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exit for the company or that
company gets in a position to

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start paying dividends.
And we see returns that way.

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But it's very much like a big
value for us is, is, you know,

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the ownership and the shares and
and being responsible with that.

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One of the things we've sort of
noticed with with the real

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wealth creators in, in our
industry is taking, taking NPV

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studies, taking these long term
mind studies with a with a pinch

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of salt, acknowledging that
they're sort of shortcomings in,

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in really representing value
that comes in, in the second

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cycle, in the third cycle, in
the fourth cycle, when you have

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a really enduring asset.
Is that something kind of ever

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present in your in your thinking
or how does that kind of fit

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into the pace with you guys?
I think it's like it's always

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hard to time a cycle and like
mining is very tough.

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A small project or big project,
they all have their their

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challenges, but if you can have
like a long life deposit that

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gives you the ability to, to
potentially catch multiple

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cycles, you have a a better
chance at success.

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And so, you know, try and focus
on quality projects with with

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big life and like that MPVIRR,
it's like you, we're looking

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here at lending gold performing
extremely well.

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And I remember looking at the
study when we were acquiring the

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project and I think it was
around of, you know, 500 million

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MPV and billion dollar CapEx and
it got a lot of pushback when

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raising the money to acquire the
asset.

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And it was extremely challenging
to to finance that build.

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But you knew, you know, dad used
to call it a buried gold bar,

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you know, more or less 10
million ounces of 10 grams a ton

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once in a lifetime opportunity.
And also it is like Ecuador's

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gold and if they wanted to
partner and and get this thing

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built, you had that that
alignment.

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And so if we did it off, you
know, MPV and CapEx at that

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time, we would have agreed with
the pushback we got trying to

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raise the money to acquire it.
I, I, I really want to come back

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to, you know, London gold, but
before that you, you hit on a

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couple of a couple of important
points.

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One is 1 is that like alignment?
The other one is, is long term

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decision making and, and you
know, the other one's skin in

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the game.
And I think about like our

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industry and we all love our
industry.

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That's why we know we work in
it.

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There's a lot we love about it.
There's some parts of it that,

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you know, rub us the wrong way
from time to time, but it's such

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an unfair advantage that that,
you know, the London brand name

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family company has to, to
effectively to, to, to, to

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finance and see, you know, into
construction these phenomenal

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projects.
When, when it's clear the the,

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the the value proposition is
thinking long term is, is being

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there through through thick and
thin is writing consecutive

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checks.
Because so much of the industry

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instead of having skin in the
game, doesn't have much skin in

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the game.
Instead of thinking long term,

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make short term decisions
instead of having alignment,

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might have short term alignment.
It's, it's a tremendous Moat

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that you have in a, in a, in an
industry that doesn't really

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have marks.
I appreciate it.

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Yeah.
I think we were just like

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spoiled with our with our
upbringing and seeing it like

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our data graphic, like they had
so much fun doing it and it was

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like infectious.
We wanted to get into the end of

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the business as well.
And and like that's like how

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they ran the businesses and you
know, we want to continue to to

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make it better and carry that
legacy on.

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Jack, how, how do you think
about it from from your kind of

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perspective?
You, you came at it from the,

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the engineering kind of
background with your, with your

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education and you know, core
part of London Gold Fruita del

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Norte in that journey being the
Superintendent there.

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But like moving the dial on, on
projects and and getting them

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right in tough jurisdictions is,
is kind of part of the, the MO

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MO of the, the organization.
How does that sort of emerge and

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on a day-to-day basis trying to
extract as much value as you

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can, especially in that kind of
build phase of a project?

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Yeah.
Well, I think first and foremost

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like the proper amount of
planning and de risking that is

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required before you can come up
with the sanction decision.

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I mean, I agree that sometimes
looking at long term economic

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models, NPV's, IRRS, you know,
that's only one part of the,

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the, the puzzle, but it also
does keep the team honest and

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really does ensure that we are
looking to implement the best

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cost controls, implement the
best execution plan.

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And inevitably there will be a
hurdle rate in order to, to

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sanction something.
And so maybe we have a bigger

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risk appetite or maybe we feel
confident in, in sanctioning a

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project with a, a lower kind of
economic return on the, on the,

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on the model before you've
sanctioned a project.

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But ultimately it does need to
hold up.

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I mean, we, we can't just say
we're going to look at building

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something that is, you know,
suboptimal economically, but it

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comes down to having an asset
that is going to make money in

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all cycles.
Like we're in a cyclical

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business.
And so we have to prepare

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ourselves that, you know, when
we build this mine, we're going

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to operate it with the controls
in place to really manage the

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the cost and the efficiencies
and, you know, the safety

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standards.
So you have to really have the

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upfront planning and in order to
plan well, you have to have the

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right team.
And so when it comes to building

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projects, building out depth in
the owner team is critical.

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We also do have to rely on
consultants and contractors and

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engineering firms, but they're
only going to be able to deliver

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what the owner team is is
requiring of them.

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And so whenever a feasibility
study doesn't hold up or an

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execution doesn't go well, you
can't just point the finger at

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the at the EPCM firm or the
contractor and say, you know,

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they screwed up it.
It really is an integrated

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approach.
And so I think what we've done

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well in the past is building out
depth on the owner team, really

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trying to ensure that we are
planning for all scenarios,

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going after deposits that really
do make money in all cycles and

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trying to be true to, you know,
reaching a hurdle rate, making

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that economic model look good.
Even though when you look at

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Fruita del Norte, I mean, it's
funny to think back that there

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were times the economic model
didn't look very robust and now,

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you know, generating the cash
flow that we are from that

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asset.
Of course gold price has has

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helped, but even at a $12150.00
an ounce gold price like this is

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a still a very, very good asset
and that's what we want to go

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after because assets that it
doesn't necessarily matter about

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the commodity price, it's going
to make money no matter what and

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it's going to be executed
because we have the right team

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in place and the right execution
plan.

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You're looking, you're looking
ahead now and there's a, a

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substantial, you know, build
ahead for, for London Mining.

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You know, Jose Maria, eventually
Philadel Sol there, there's

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going to be a lot of CapEx, a
big, a big build to embark on, a

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lot of hurdles to tick.
But, but I'm sure you've, you've

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looked at projects that have
have gone well when they've

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embarked on, on giant projects
and, and ones that haven't gone

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00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:20,840
well.
Like what have you taken away

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00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,880
from the learnings of the ones
that maybe haven't gone well?

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00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,880
I think it's a, it's a good
point like it's, it's not only

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about the internal de risking on
the asset that we have in the

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project that we're looking at
building.

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00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,160
We've got free learnings across
the sector when we look at

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00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,280
projects that have done well or
projects that haven't done well.

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00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,040
And so we would be very naive or
foolish not to take note of

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00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,520
what's happening with companies
that are building projects in

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00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:56,320
similar environments around us.
And so we run a pretty extensive

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00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,720
kind of case study and
benchmarking exercise as we're

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putting our studies together and
say, OK, you know, we've we we

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feel like we've sufficiently de
risked our project.

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00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,600
But also let's take a look at,
you know, what's happened

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00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,360
elsewhere on other projects and
try and see what those lessons

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00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,800
learned were and implement
critical controls to mitigate

242
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,680
challenges that, you know, maybe
another company encountered on a

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00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:24,360
different project and say, you
know, we we might not be, you

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00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,080
know, we might not be insulated
from that.

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00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,040
We might have the same type of
risks.

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00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,120
And so how can we mitigate and
whether that's storm better?

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00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,440
So it is a combination of doing
our homework on our own asset,

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00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,240
understanding the environment
that we're in, and then taking

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00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,920
free lessons learned from what
our peers are doing.

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00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,240
And then you put all of that
together and, and eventually

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00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,720
once you feel like you've
satisfied enough requirements,

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00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,400
you know, the stage gates have
been reached, milestones have

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00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,640
been hit, checklist has been
complete, then eventually you

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00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:56,920
just got to say, OK, we're going
for it.

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00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,600
And you, you kind of hit
sanction.

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00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,320
If we, if we sort of go into a
couple of the details of, of

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00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,000
vicuna as well, obviously it's
in, it's in Argentina, a country

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00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,400
with a fascinating economic
history and in, in a bit of a

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00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,760
sort of up cycle now.
And you guys posted a selfie not

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00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,960
too long ago with, with Malay.
So I've got to ask what what is

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00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,440
he kind of like and how do you
kind of get comfortable knowing

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00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,600
this project is going to, you
know, at last his administration

263
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,040
by many, many multiples.
You know, you're, you're putting

264
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,880
a huge investment in the ground
there in, in Argentina.

265
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,200
Well, I think it was, you know,
for us it was, it was amazing

266
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,640
that we were able to meet with
President Milei in in January

267
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,640
2024, you know, less than a
month after he had been brought

268
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,560
into to office.
And at that time, we were, you

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00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:55,240
know, presenting what Jose Maria
in London mining looks like and

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00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,320
what it could mean for San Juan
and for Argentina.

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00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,560
We talked about the broader
group in our history in in

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00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,120
Argentina.
And I think, you know, the

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00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,040
approach that we wanted to
communicate about, you know,

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00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,080
focusing on building capacity in
Argentina, you know, being there

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00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,400
to support the development of an
industry that, you know, could

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00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,000
be such a contributor to the
economy of Argentina.

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00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,160
You know, I think you're, you're
pushing on an open door when

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00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,680
we're having that kind of
discussion.

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00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,080
So he he definitely was, you
know, it was a meeting that

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00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,880
you'll you'll never forget.
It was amazing that he was, you

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00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,840
know, willing to welcome us into
the Castle Rosada into his

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00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,320
office.
And you know, now if we Fast

283
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,680
forward to where we are today
from when we met in, in January

284
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,600
2024, you know, we've
significantly advanced Jose

285
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,240
Maria, we've, you know, drilled
out significantly Filo del Sol

286
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,520
still open in basically all
directions, a monster deposit.

287
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:56,000
We've consolidated both Jose and
Filo into the Cunha Corp and,

288
00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,880
you know, brought in our partner
BHP to, to look at building this

289
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:06,160
district out in a, in a, you
know, sequenced way, but also as

290
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,160
efficiently as possible getting
to, to full scale.

291
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,520
So, you know, now we're in a
position where there's still a

292
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,400
lot to be done, but we've, we've
achieved a lot since January

293
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,920
2024.
And I think, you know, I'm

294
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,560
hopeful that we'll get to meet
with him again and share kind of

295
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,680
all of the progress that we've
made and gain even further

296
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,880
alignment that, you know, now
we've done our homework, we've

297
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,320
got our, you know, we've got our
partner, we've got kind of

298
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,000
conceptually how this project
needs to be developed and we

299
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,040
look forward to bringing it into
the next phase.

300
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,280
You guys are up for the
challenge, right?

301
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,160
This is this is just a
reflection, you know, reading

302
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,880
about the both of you.
I mean, yeah, trying to build a

303
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,440
formidable copper producer of
of, of this scale in this part

304
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,480
of the world takes cojones.
But I don't know what's hard at

305
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,120
doing this or climbing Everest,
Jack.

306
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,000
I mean listen, this is.
Probably more sustained

307
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,480
hardness.
Everest was five weeks on the

308
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:12,680
mountain.
Yeah, Yeah.

309
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,400
I mean both bring challenges and
risks.

310
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:20,079
And I think the lesson learned
on on doing Everest was, you

311
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:24,160
know, similar to how we approach
our business, like we're taking

312
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,599
on risks, but you can mitigate
those risks substantially if you

313
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,400
have the right team, the right
approach and the right mentality

314
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,840
going into it.
So, you know, I'm, I'm excited

315
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,640
that we're, we're embarking on
this journey and we're going to

316
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,800
be, you know, hopefully getting
into development phase pretty

317
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:44,600
soon here.
It's been a long time coming.

318
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,760
Just, you know, being a kid and,
and seeing our dad travel down

319
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,760
to South America for so many
years, such long trips.

320
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,320
And then us coming into the
picture and looking at bringing

321
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,920
it to the next phase.
It's obviously something pretty

322
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,880
special.
But yeah, I mean, just like

323
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,000
Everest, you, you look at kind
of where the challenges are,

324
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,040
where the risks lie and see if
you can mitigate them.

325
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,120
But at the same time it is
about, you know, taking that

326
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:11,760
step and just moving forward on
it.

327
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,960
So yeah, we like to do some some
crazy adventures sometimes.

328
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,960
We also like, you know,
following sports quite a bit.

329
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,880
And I think there's a lot of
synergies to apply to how you

330
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,800
run a mining company or a
resource company compared to how

331
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,520
you look at it, you know,
basketball, hockey or soccer

332
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,520
team, kind of, you know, looking
to win a championship.

333
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,480
And so we, we try and kind of
relate everything that we do

334
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,880
outside of work to work.
And it also makes it fun.

335
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,280
I couldn't agree more, Jack.
I'm curious to hear how you guys

336
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,320
thinking with regards to
financing the, the whole

337
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,760
fecundia district has has
perhaps changed on, on the

338
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,560
margins in the recent year.
When we sort of take a snapshot

339
00:18:55,560 --> 00:19:00,400
view midway through 24 the, that
the group of companies is call

340
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,240
it 25 billion.
I think Lundane would be 11 or

341
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,040
12 billion in, in market
valuation and it's more than

342
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:07,960
doubled in, in, in the past
year.

343
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,120
And obviously that that has a
big impact on the, the, the

344
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:14,080
equity side of your cost of
capital.

345
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,320
So how, how does that sort of
thinking change, bearing in mind

346
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,720
that you know you don't make FID
in the in the very near term

347
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,480
anyway?
Yeah.

348
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:30,920
So, I mean, we have so many
options on the table for how we

349
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,680
can finance our portion of the,
of the Vacuna build.

350
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:39,080
I mean, over the last 24 months
really it hasn't just been

351
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,760
Vacuna and, and creating Vacuna
Corp and, and doing the

352
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,920
transaction with, with BHP to
buy Silo.

353
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,760
But you know, we've embarked on
a number of transformational

354
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,320
deals where you know, we, we
bought into Casarones in 2023.

355
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,680
Well, it started with us buying
into the district through the

356
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,280
acquisition of Jose Maria in
2022.

357
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,600
And then on the Chilean side of
the Vicuna district, we bought

358
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,640
51% of Casarones.
You know, we had a call option

359
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:11,800
to go up to 70% which we
exercised last year and then we

360
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,040
announced in July.
The Vicunia Corp transaction of

361
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,720
last year and then in December
kind of the final piece to

362
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:24,920
restructuring our portfolio was
selling our European assets, 1

363
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:30,600
mine zinc mine in Sweden and
copper zinc mine in Portugal to

364
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:36,680
Boledin for around 1.4 billion
US with potential contingent

365
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,000
payments coming to us up to 1.5
billion.

366
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,440
And that put us in a position to
pay off the the debt that we

367
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,600
took on for the other
acquisitions that I spoke about.

368
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,680
So now we're going to exit this
year essentially net debt free,

369
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,600
probably, you know, potentially
in a cash positive position.

370
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,040
And that gives us the
optionality for, you know, a

371
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,680
number of ways of financing the
the Vicuna project.

372
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:07,280
So we've got a corporate debt
facility, 1.75 billion revolving

373
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,680
credit facility.
We are going to be looking to

374
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:14,200
upsize that significantly and
and that's ongoing right now.

375
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,040
We've got you know other levers
that we can pull on.

376
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,760
And I think what's going to be
super important for for us is

377
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,720
that when we come out with the
integrated technical report in

378
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,280
Q1 of next year to ident to, to
really showcase the full scale

379
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,720
of what lacuna is going to be,
but more definition around kind

380
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,800
of phase one.
In parallel to that, we should

381
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,000
be ready to talk about how we
will fund our 50% share.

382
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,840
So it's not like we're
presenting a big project, a big

383
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,080
CapEx with no idea of how we're
going to fund it.

384
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,400
I think we, we put those, you
know that communication together

385
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,560
and we'll show the market that
even this is a Greenfield mega

386
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,480
project, largest discovery in
the last 30 years in the in the

387
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,520
copper sector and going to be
one of the biggest development

388
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,440
projects across the resource
sector, 50% of that owned by

389
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,520
Lundin Mining.
A company of our size can

390
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,760
comfortably finance that and we
don't have to really bet the

391
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,720
farm on it.
I think we we've got a strong

392
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,000
portfolio of of four operating
mines that the cash flows

393
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,880
generated will also help our
ability to to you know raise

394
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,720
funding.
That that plan to to come out

395
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,360
out with the study and and the
plan on how to how to fund it

396
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,600
like correct, correct me if I'm
I'm wrong and misinterpreting,

397
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,600
I'm mischaracterizing this, but
does does that does that

398
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,240
decision is that born out of
like a key learning from from

399
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,640
the way the Jose Maria
acquisition was received by the

400
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:47,240
market?
I think I think like you just

401
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,560
kind of evolved and like how
well the team's doing it

402
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,040
lending, mining and putting
itself in a position where like

403
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,240
you, you can land against the
the operations and you have that

404
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,760
balance sheet like freed up, you
know, ending the year

405
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,520
potentially in a net cash
position.

406
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,040
And then, you know, you don't
want to completely over lever

407
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:10,040
the company, but you're doing
strong, strong free cash flow

408
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:15,640
that will support a a big credit
facility and like looking to do

409
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,800
this, you know, potentially off
the balance sheet of lending

410
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,120
mining, but also staying
disciplined and continue with

411
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:23,240
our shareholder distribution
policy.

412
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,520
You don't have the ability to
pay a dividend and buy shares

413
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,440
back while you going to this
transformational production

414
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,920
profile change.
I think it just, you know, the

415
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,120
team is building mining in such
a strong position.

416
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,320
I think what we also do now is,
you know, we've got essentially

417
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,480
a a new management team and at
at London Mining and we really

418
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,920
added depth into our financial
planning and, and and modeling

419
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,400
team.
So we consolidate all of our

420
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:57,800
financials into one model.
We look at different capital

421
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,960
allocation strategies reflects
the model with various price

422
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,600
sensitivities on commodities
that were selling inflation

423
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,640
rates and what not.
And we want to ensure that all

424
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,760
of our growth we can pursue at
the same time as having that

425
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,600
shareholder return framework
intact.

426
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,200
And then we layer in, you know,
different strategies on how we

427
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,440
can finance our, you know,
really Vacuna, but there's other

428
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,720
growth opportunities that we're
pursuing, lower capital

429
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,160
intensity, brownfield
opportunities.

430
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,000
And, and of course, we listen to
the market and, and, and, you

431
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,000
know, are receptive to feedback
and that also goes into how we

432
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,560
generate our, our decisions.
But ultimately, you know, we

433
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,160
just need to make sure that
everything we're doing is is

434
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,840
well thought through.
And I think what we've done in

435
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,920
the last 24 months as we have
really retooled London mining to

436
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,920
be a simple story.
And you know we've got huge

437
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,960
growth opportunities.
But we thought we've also got a

438
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,400
portfolio of operations that are
performing very well quarter

439
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,040
after quarter.
And that's what we anchor back

440
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,480
to the Cunha doesn't happen if
we don't perform at our existing

441
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,320
operations base.
And so really putting those, you

442
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,880
know, that planning cycle into
place and executing on what we

443
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,560
say, we're going to do that.
That in turn has I think helped

444
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,320
with the evaluation of our
business and giving confidence

445
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,400
to the market that, you know,
we're, we're taking calculated

446
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,080
risks here.
We're not being reckless.

447
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,320
There's Chinese touched on the
pretty, the pretty bold coal

448
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,640
and, and the way, you know,
Argentina sort of riding the

449
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,240
business, the business tailwinds
that are, that are present there

450
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,720
that haven't always been the,
the bold coal with, with Ecuador

451
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,760
like you've touched on.
And, and we'll go into further.

452
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:51,240
I want to, I want to ask about,
about the, the DRC and, and, you

453
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,280
know, particularly the, the, the
fact that Once Upon a time,

454
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:58,800
London mining owned 24.75%
interest in 10K Fungarum and,

455
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,120
and ultimately sold, sold that
interest after Freeport sold.

456
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:06,400
It's it's interest instead of
exercising the right of would

457
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,520
would would would Lundin Mining
make the exact same decision on

458
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,960
that asset at that point in like
if if the same situation were

459
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,280
kind of were were were repeated
today and you know Ceteras

460
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:24,520
Paribas same conditions I.
Think like we missed 10K.

461
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,080
That was such a phenomenal
deposit.

462
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,000
Like our older brother Harry,
like worked for Freeport and was

463
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,120
on the project as well.
Like you hadn't even got to

464
00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:34,320
Fungorumi yet and you're just
finished.

465
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,800
You're just after phase two on
10K, obviously you know with our

466
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,360
partners and Freeport is
operative, I'm making the

467
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:47,560
decision to sell.
You know if we could have bought

468
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,880
their interest and consolidated,
I think that would have been

469
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,200
phenomenal.
But that opportunity and present

470
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,840
itself so like exercising and
the tag along rights.

471
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:01,680
But I think, you know, again, it
just goes for like, if there's a

472
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,280
tremendous world class deposit
like that and a host nation that

473
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,760
wants to partner and see it get
developed, we won't shy away.

474
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,640
But at the same time, it's
really like it's probably harder

475
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,040
to find a a good team than a
good project.

476
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,800
So you just got to make sure you
have the the bench strength

477
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,800
before taking on too much.
But no, we wouldn't shy away.

478
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,600
But I think lending mining story
is so clean right now and you

479
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,320
have that growth lever that we
want to pull on.

480
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,400
If something like that presented
itself and we took a serious

481
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,400
look, it'd probably be outside
of lending mining.

482
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,480
When you guys kind of think
about the jurisdictions out

483
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,760
there that that really excite
you, what, what kind of you

484
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,280
know, comes to mind?
You've, you've often had a

485
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,840
pipeline of, of new, new
vehicles that are exploring in,

486
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,320
in other kind of corners of the
world, be it Sudan, be it the

487
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,280
DRC or West Africa as well with,
with montage of light, where,

488
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,120
where are the kind of pockets
around the world that, that make

489
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:06,560
your eyes kind of light up?
It's just like the those host

490
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,280
stations that, you know, they
have that doability like you

491
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,920
can, you can go out and they
want to see it happen and you

492
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,800
can get projects done like I
don't, it's definitely not in

493
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,880
the cards at the time to, you
know, do montage and have a, you

494
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,480
know, another vehicle.
But again, like when Martino and

495
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:31,120
Peder and Sylvia want to go and
and embark on this adventure and

496
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:33,440
like we were fortunate enough to
have shares in montage and then

497
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,400
obviously got a lot bigger.
But code of War, wanting to see

498
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,880
this mine get built, you just
get very excited.

499
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,240
You have a team who wants to do
it.

500
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,200
You have the project and you
have the host nation who wants

501
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,280
to do it.
So like when the stars align,

502
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,680
it's very it's almost impossible
to say no.

503
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,840
And and of course Zijing
involved there as well.

504
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,360
I mean, what, what do you kind
of learn from from the Chinese,

505
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,200
the way they've kind of
revolutionized mining in, in the

506
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,320
last sort of 10 ideas and their
different approach, which isn't

507
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,200
always applicable to to Western
companies and workable, but

508
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,760
there's certainly a lot of value
unlocks that they've brought to

509
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:06,400
the industry.
What?

510
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:07,520
What do you kind of take from
them?

511
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,480
I think it's just like
understanding like these

512
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:18,440
resources, you know, are finite
and like it's, it's tough.

513
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,680
I just, you know, you're on the
circuit and you go to

514
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,120
conferences and you bump into
each other, each other.

515
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,560
And so you're able to like form
a bit of a relationship and then

516
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,400
like losing out a lot of the
time, like making a bid on

517
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,640
TIMOC, like getting blown out of
the water, like looking at

518
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,360
consent from the DRC, getting
blown out of the water.

519
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,400
Like we think we have the
ability to move quickly and make

520
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,040
quick decisions to be able to
bring projects online.

521
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,920
But they kind of have a almost a
different pace.

522
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,960
And so we thought, you know,
they came in as a 99-ON montage

523
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:59,040
and was impressed with their DD
work and impressed with, with

524
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,080
the relationship.
So no, it's it's interesting to

525
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,960
see and like they really came
out of nowhere in the last

526
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,920
decade.
Similar to you guys, they make

527
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,920
long term decisions as well.
The the capital they deploy

528
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,640
it's, it's, it's patient, yeah,
it thinks, it thinks, it thinks

529
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,240
about yeah, these resources
through through the upcycles.

530
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,640
I yeah, you mentioned the stuff
outside of Lundin mining and

531
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,960
maybe very proximate to that is
of course NGEX.

532
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,320
And yeah, that the recent kind
of value creation decision there

533
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:39,120
was to to spin out lunar
royalties recently as an

534
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,480
observer, kind of just like
trying to make sense of of that

535
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,600
from the outside, like wicked to
say for for NGX shareholders.

536
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,600
But also I can't help but wonder
if if maybe maybe the decision

537
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,640
to do that at that point in time
is is because it's like the only

538
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,560
time you can, you can spin out
the royalty.

539
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,040
If there's a consolidation with
NGX in the and Vacuna Argentina

540
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,840
down the track, it it might be
might be too, too tricky to do

541
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,520
then.
Is that a fair characterization?

542
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:12,840
Yeah, I think it was like we've
looked at it on other companies

543
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,840
before and it's just again like
it has to kind of line up And so

544
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,040
like there's with not a resource
outstanding on Luna Wasi and you

545
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:29,640
know the cost of the company to
spin out a royalty wasn't wild.

546
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,920
And so we went with the
decision.

547
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:39,520
Yeah, let's let's do it now and
create another vehicle to see if

548
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,280
we can grow that royalty
business.

549
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:48,640
I think it's an interesting
space and you know, it's, it's

550
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,080
they trade on great multiples
and no, it'd just be interesting

551
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,040
to dive into it, but it wasn't
done.

552
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,040
Like, OK, we can get this done
and then now let's sell NGX.

553
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,560
Like I think, you know, if you
get taken out along the way,

554
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,400
like that could be a positive
outcome.

555
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,920
You know, if you're going to get
paid for something in advance

556
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,160
and it's good for shareholders,
you have to entertain it.

557
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:17,880
But very excited about NGX and
Lunoazi, Lunoazi and and Los

558
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,880
Alados and with the mindset like
every company we have, is that

559
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,720
OK?
Like we, we're prepared to take

560
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,080
it all the way.
And so looking at Lunawazi and

561
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,800
seeing it Argentina, you're in
this great environment.

562
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,520
It looks like a very special
deposit.

563
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,080
You know, I don't think it'll be
big tonnage.

564
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,280
So should be a meaningful CapEx.
And then, OK, how are you going

565
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,120
to fund that CapEx?
NGX is a lot of cash on the

566
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,040
balance sheet now, but down the
road, you know they're going to

567
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,400
retain a 20% stake in Lunar.
And then if you need to monetize

568
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,040
that to help fund CapEx, we
thought that was also a good

569
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,160
way.
Also would add that I think

570
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,520
seeing the value that can be
created through having these,

571
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:03,320
these royalty companies, I mean
it's the natural evolution of

572
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,720
the group.
We're always looking at being

573
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,480
innovative and how to create
value and looking at different

574
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,720
options that are on the table
and, you know, taking on new

575
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,320
opportunities.
We're always trying to, you

576
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,240
know, incubate good ideas and if
they make it to the surface,

577
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,800
then like, let's let's pursue
it.

578
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,920
And so think this lunar
royalties is going to be another

579
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:31,800
seriously, you know, strong
value generating vehicle with a

580
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,640
great team going to be in place.
Adam coming out of retirement

581
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,920
to, to take over as CEO 'cause I
guess he was getting bored,

582
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,480
doesn't have enough to do.
And it's no, I think it's just

583
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,040
going to be another great
vehicle for us to to create

584
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,400
value with the shareholders that
are along for the journey.

585
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:48,720
How are you going to grow it,
Adam?

586
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,280
You know, it's kind of put like
the we're going to try and grow

587
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,880
like I was super competitive
space got to start like getting

588
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,880
comfortable with, you know, 1520
year payback.

589
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,600
It's a good deal, but I'll see
like I think if we can maybe

590
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,000
stick more precious metal
weighted at the beginning, like

591
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,719
if it's copper gold, you know,
see if we can find a producing

592
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,280
royalty.
I think it's going to be

593
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,679
challenging, but I think just
getting a producing royalty in

594
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:22,840
there will help re rate the the
Los Alatos, Illinois royalty.

595
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,560
But definitely trying like you
know, with this company being

596
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,040
born with such phenomenal
assets, you want to kind of

597
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,320
maintain that quality as well.
So I don't put myself like too

598
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,480
much in a box and and make it
very challenging to grow, but

599
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,600
it's definitely going to.
Let's see what we can do.

600
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,679
What what did your friends at
BHB have to say when the when

601
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:43,560
the royalty got spun out?
Did they share any thoughts?

602
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,400
Like it's a great relationship
there.

603
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:55,400
So like mentioned it and they
were excited to to see you know,

604
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,880
where it's going to trade
because having 50% of the Cunha

605
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,600
and OK, like Luna was here, Los
Alatos aren't into Vacuna JZ,

606
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,120
but you know, they're in the
neighborhood and you can kind of

607
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,760
see a read through of what
Vacuna's value can be

608
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,160
potentially.
That is striking to me how the

609
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,120
how the London's have this
phenomenal capability of, of

610
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,280
supporting the the group of
companies.

611
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,320
They can write big checks.
They can, yeah, be there when

612
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,320
other shareholders might be more
short term focused.

613
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,440
These guys are long term focused
and that sort of support, it

614
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,000
reminds me of some of the most
important support in our entire

615
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,520
industry, which is.
Sandvik ground support.

616
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,400
Sandvik ground support.
One and the same.

617
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,240
These companies, they don't get
from from A to B without the

618
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:41,160
London support.
Just like underground mines all

619
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,680
around the world, don't get the
product out the ground without

620
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,160
the support of Sandvik Ground
support.

621
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:47,680
Support of Sandvik ground
support, you know, the biggest

622
00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:49,720
supporter of Sandy ground
support that I've ever met.

623
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,760
Derek Kurd.
Derek Kurd, that the man, the

624
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,400
myth mate and he has been
humping at the innovations

625
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,400
lately.
Of course, with the R&D team

626
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,960
there you can check out the
latest new large PCD drill bit.

627
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,360
That one's specifically for for
coal mines, but they are

628
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,880
creating new inventions for
every single commodity, every

629
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,960
type of mine, be it a cable
bolt, mesh, different types of

630
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,480
grout and chemicals that they're
working on.

631
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,240
Even the digital systems, mate,
the digital systems to monitor

632
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,440
that your underground
environment stays safe day and

633
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,240
night.
You can get that at Sandvik.

634
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,000
But when you're underground and
you look up and you think, Oh

635
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,920
yeah, look at those balls, keep
me safe.

636
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,880
Sandvik ground support.
Sandvik Ground Support and if we

637
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,760
hadn't sold you enough yet mate,
download the app, get on the

638
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,560
ground support app, put in your
order.

639
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,600
Derek Herd will hand deliver it
to your site in Australia.

640
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,640
Good on you, Derek.
Go Sandvik ground support back

641
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,720
to the London's Let's let's but
they're Speaking of of things

642
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:49,800
that trade on a on a multiple
that is is amazing London gold.

643
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,280
The the value creation there is
exceptional that the cash flow

644
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,160
that that fruit of donor day is
generating phenomenal.

645
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,600
And, and, and Jack, I know you,
you worked there, you saw this

646
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,080
project go into, into
construction, into development

647
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,240
that how do you, how do you get
comfortable with the, I suppose

648
00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:13,960
the, the well, the lack of
diversification that that

649
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,800
company has.
It's a, it's a single asset

650
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,880
company with, with a, with a
staggering, staggering valuation

651
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,920
and, and solely concentrated in,
in Ecuador.

652
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,800
Are you just completely
comfortable with with with the

653
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,000
the regime in in Ecuador that
you don't need diversification?

654
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:36,360
What I would say is that like,
you know, focusing on maximizing

655
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:41,360
the potential of of FDN has been
the best business decision for

656
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,560
lending gold and we've
redeployed capital into the

657
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:53,480
ground around FDN and come up
with now 3 new copper porphyry

658
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,720
discoveries.
So it shows that FDN is

659
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:04,160
surrounded by such unique
mineralization that we are now

660
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,800
validating this as a district
much like the Cunha.

661
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:13,240
And throughout that period, we
have also looked at just like

662
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:16,960
with every company in the
lending group opportunities to

663
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:22,040
grow through M&A or through
diversifying the portfolio.

664
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:27,000
But we can be, you know, we
don't have to be hasty on

665
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,200
something like that.
And so the exploration team that

666
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:36,160
is in place there with our VP of
Exploration, Andre, Andre

667
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,920
Olivier, he's really done a
remarkable job trying to you

668
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,560
know, look at this region
through a different lens and

669
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,280
piggyback off of all the great
geology work that had been done

670
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,680
in the past.
But you combined world class

671
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:56,600
deposit operating really with a
level of excellence that you

672
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,160
know, makes it a, a top ranked
mine in the world, not just in

673
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,960
gold, but I think across all
commodities.

674
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,600
And then you put that beside a,
an emerging district that has

675
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,840
precious metals and base metals,
epithermal deposits and

676
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,160
porphyries.
And I think it's been a good

677
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,040
decision for us to to focus our
concentration there.

678
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,560
What, what gives us comfort at,
at lending gold is the fact that

679
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,040
we put so much effort into
developing a really good

680
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,280
relationship with the
communities in the area of

681
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,000
influence and getting that
social license and buy in and

682
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,920
bringing, you know, the
philosophy of building capacity,

683
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,440
not just for future employees,
but also for suppliers and for

684
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,480
opportunities to diversify the
economy and the surrounding

685
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,480
area.
It it's, it's been a really good

686
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,040
model.
Now, if opportunities do come up

687
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:56,320
to acquire assets outside of
Ecuador and and make us you

688
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:01,200
know, international, you know,
global Gold company, then we'll

689
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,520
pursue that.
But I think the decision to

690
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,400
really focus on what we have in
that area of influence has has

691
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:13,400
proven very, very well and it's
enabled us as well to put a very

692
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,120
sound shareholder return
framework in place, you know, at

693
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:24,280
a minimum paying. 50% of our
free cash flow after the 300

694
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,080
million US per annum dividend
that we pay as a base dividend,

695
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,320
our our free cash flow yield is
solid and our returns as a

696
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,720
percentage of free cash flow is
industry leading.

697
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:39,120
And I think that's also helped
the the share price get to where

698
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,440
it is today, a remarkable run
that I think none of us really

699
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:47,800
foresaw happening.
What are the sort of countries

700
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,440
that jump out of here you think
and America's kind of focused

701
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,560
there given the the vehicle.
I mean the whole environment of

702
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,520
of resources has kind of been
spun on its head in, in recent

703
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:00,720
times.
And it looks like we're

704
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:03,320
continuing down that trend.
And you know, on the back of

705
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,640
that gold is performed very
strongly.

706
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,360
But how do you go out picking
those jurisdictions that you're

707
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,920
going to put yourself in for for
the next kind of 50 years?

708
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,640
Well, I think it's, it's not
that complex of a model that we

709
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,720
that we have at the group.
Like if there's a deposit out

710
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:27,760
there that that has, you know,
very attractive attributes,

711
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,000
that's the first incentive to go
in and look at it.

712
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:37,600
You know, we don't really have
restrictions on where we want to

713
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,560
go.
But the first thing is, is there

714
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,640
a deposit worth going to pursue?
Then if there is, you go in and

715
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,800
you immediately look at the, the
deposit, the area of influence

716
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,960
you look at, you know, is there
opportunities to actually build

717
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,400
or operate something Here are
are we wanted?

718
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,320
Can we form a partnership?
Then going to the central

719
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,000
government and trying to have
that discussion and say, you

720
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,240
know, this is our approach.
Are you, are you supportive of

721
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:04,920
us looking at making an
investment?

722
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:10,080
And if you've got the, you know,
the, the economic geologic

723
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,480
conditions, the area of
influence, you know, has

724
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,360
opportunities and, and wants you
to be there and the central

725
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,280
government is supportive of it,
then we would move in and, and,

726
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,120
and make that investment
decision and, and, and really

727
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,760
try to, you know, to, to add
value that way.

728
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,720
So we don't necessarily
discriminate where we go.

729
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:32,920
It just has to have those kind
of three criteria being

730
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,080
satisfied.
But for like a lending goal,

731
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,640
it's not like you want to see
them then go pick up an asset

732
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,160
and go to bar where like montage
is active.

733
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,760
You'd see definitely like let me
go, probably stay in the

734
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,640
Americas if they're looking in
that position.

735
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,400
Yeah, I think it makes more
logical sense to stick in, you

736
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,080
know, in the Americas.
But I.

737
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,440
Tried to get the team to be
fresh a bit too.

738
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,480
Yeah, and now we've got Jamie
Beck just like not even a week

739
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,440
into the role, I think he's
extremely excited about, you

740
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,560
know, this time looking at
proving out a district, whereas

741
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,880
in in Vicuna with Filo, you're
proving out a district, but you

742
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,120
didn't have any cash flow.
Now he's got a district and A

743
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,960
and a literal goldmine to
support that.

744
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,040
And he's also very creative
with, you know, potential

745
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:20,480
business development
opportunities.

746
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,720
So let's see what they come up
with and where it will be

747
00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:29,200
supportive, if it makes sense.
I've got a I've got AI know you

748
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,440
guys think long term and if you
if you just like Fast forward 40

749
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,760
years and it's it's it's your
own kids running the running

750
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,800
London group and and the, you
know, the group of important

751
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,360
companies at that point in time.
What does what does London group

752
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,640
look like?
What business have you left them

753
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,120
I.
Mean.

754
00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:50,680
How?
How long from?

755
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,200
Now I said 40 years, but you
know.

756
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,680
No, I think like, I mean, it's
just like the way the business

757
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,200
was, you know, left like my dad
passed away.

758
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:07,400
Like there's a fruit of Del
Norte.

759
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,720
There's like tremendous, you
know, deposits within it.

760
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:12,480
And it's like, yeah, OK, it's
going to be tough work.

761
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:17,160
But it's also like just the
people that like our grandpa and

762
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,880
dad, you know, had in place of
the group and surrounded with

763
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,440
like as long as it was a good
asset base.

764
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,720
And again, just being able to
work with just some really world

765
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:31,760
class individuals, I think it'd
be more important than leading

766
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,720
to them like just the All Star
cast we have today and and see

767
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:39,720
that similar like it's all about
the the talent you you have and

768
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,240
that makes everything possible.
There's certain companies in our

769
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:47,600
industry that have that have
pretty deliberately stayed small

770
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,480
and not not a stable of
companies like like you, but

771
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,600
they've been very particular
about trimming assets in, in the

772
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,760
good times, picking them up when
they're they're cheap.

773
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,240
Does part of that kind of
resonate with your thinking?

774
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:01,640
I know it's a a bit of a
different kind of model, but

775
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,920
optimal shareholder returns are
not always kind of driven when

776
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,080
you're a 200 billion plus
company, you know, often being

777
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,040
small is is more conducive to
that.

778
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:15,280
How do you think about that?
Well, I think what what has

779
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:21,400
worked for us is making sure
that we have separate companies

780
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,920
to run their own mandates with a
board and management team and

781
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,880
and workforce that is completely
aligned on driving value for

782
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,640
that respective company.
And, and what that strategy is.

783
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:37,840
If we tried to put everything
into 11 vehicle, it would just

784
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,920
yeah, you you would be
struggling on how to

785
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:48,080
appropriately allocate capital.
And so always looking to stay

786
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:53,120
entrepreneurial to ensure that
we are even as we grow with some

787
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,200
of our companies and hopefully
all of our companies, we

788
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,480
continue to grow, but
eliminating bureaucracy all the

789
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,680
time, always looking to improve
on, on how we operate and make

790
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:09,920
things efficient and effective.
You know, running a company like

791
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:14,720
Lundin Mining, you know, we
approach every day and and we

792
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:18,160
ask questions every day about
what is this process?

793
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,760
Is it needed?
If not, delete it.

794
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,960
We can build it back when it's
needed.

795
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,880
So making sure we're always
staying fit for purposes is

796
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:31,800
critical because it's, it's very
easy for things to kind of get

797
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,200
away from you and, and all of a
sudden you've got all of these

798
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,120
processes and before you know
it, the processes are governing

799
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,320
the people in the company, not
the other way around.

800
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,120
So, you know, we want to grow
lending mining to become a top

801
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,080
10 copper producer and that's
going to make, you know, the

802
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,800
market cap go extremely high.
But I think we can still

803
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,960
maintain that culture even if we
are 510 times larger than we are

804
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,520
today.
So it's just about managing kind

805
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,640
of the, you know, the, the
processes and the bureaucracy

806
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,720
the same way that we manage our
safety protocols.

807
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:07,720
You know, if you have a good
month of safety, you don't just

808
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:10,200
take the next month off.
You are every day you're at it,

809
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,920
making sure what are the
critical controls that need to

810
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,640
be in place?
How are we mitigating it?

811
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,880
What are our risks?
How are we mitigating those?

812
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,840
You just it's a relentless
effort to to ensure that you

813
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,600
keep that kind of culture
intact.

814
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:27,000
Costs have a propensity to to
grow without the discipline to

815
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:28,760
to cut them out from time to
time.

816
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,160
It's refreshing to have that
that perspective.

817
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:36,880
We were on the phone last week
with a US based kind of capital

818
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,720
allocator and he was, he was
talking about the types of

819
00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:42,080
companies that he invest in and
the ones that that he doesn't.

820
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,800
And he mentioned this thing
called the Lundin put, which is

821
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,360
tremendously useful and never
heard of this before.

822
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,360
But what he was referring to
was, was the the the dynamic

823
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:55,760
where there's some other an
unspoken or a spoken kind of

824
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,800
understanding in in the North
American market that the Lundins

825
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,760
don't do a down round.
Can can you confirm the presence

826
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,600
of the London put?
Is this a thing or is this just

827
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,640
something that that that fund
managers have have birthed into

828
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,120
the existence via their own
mind?

829
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:16,600
If you definitely never want to
do it down round, but I guess I

830
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:22,120
had that pleasure like with FILO
starting, I think the first

831
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:26,600
equity raise I did was $2.00 and
then one was like $1.85.

832
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,800
And it's yeah, tough.
Like you're pushing, you're

833
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,720
working so hard, the team's
working hard, you're having

834
00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:34,640
results.
But I mean, if you don't have

835
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,600
the commodities, you know, if
they're pushing against you and

836
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:43,000
have that negative head, when
it's, it's sometimes hard to to,

837
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,760
you know, generate that, that
type of value.

838
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:54,800
So I guess like we like thinking
as a shareholder and I mean, no,

839
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,160
I don't think there's a, there's
not a lending.

840
00:48:57,880 --> 00:48:59,480
Hopefully we'll never have to do
down round.

841
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,400
Fingers crossed for you guys.
I've got one last quick one and

842
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,880
it's a bit a bit different, not
totally specific to to the

843
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,080
London mining group of
companies, but Canada versus

844
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,320
Australia.
I think Australia I think we can

845
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,560
safely say in terms of mining
finances is on top right now or

846
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:20,360
maybe that's a bit of a home
bias coming in.

847
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,440
But do you think it's a sort of
lower ebb for, for Canada and

848
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,160
and the the nation and its
capital markets will come back

849
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,400
strongly for for mining in in
due course or how do you kind of

850
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:34,920
think about that?
Like you got a super refreshing

851
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,120
marketing in Australia.
I think the knowledge level that

852
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:42,240
investor base is very high.
I think the amount of, you know,

853
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:47,960
money being invested this base
is, is impressive and you know,

854
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:49,680
not really shying away from
that.

855
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:54,000
So I definitely see like
Australia continuing to grow.

856
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,160
I think Canada has that ability
as well.

857
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,800
But I mean you just have to help
make it a bit attractive.

858
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,520
I think the way like the
superannuation funds are set up

859
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:11,760
down here and supporting the the
listed minors here is, is

860
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:16,480
something amazing to see.
Like we don't have that similar

861
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,960
set up in Canada.
And I think down here like that

862
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,040
started, you know, 40 years ago
and it's just been tremendous.

863
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,640
So I don't think that's like a
long period of time, but I mean,

864
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,440
I, I'd welcome it.
I don't, I don't think 40 years

865
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,840
is a long period of time.
I kind of like that.

866
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,400
Yeah.
And and look forward to seeing

867
00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:40,560
the the ASX listing of London
mining in due course down here.

868
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,080
Trav, you got anything to add,
Matt?

869
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,000
Just thanks so much.
Congrats on yeah, that that

870
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,600
tremendous success that you guys
continue to to grow and build.

871
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:53,200
And yeah, like where we start to
be able to bring your views and

872
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,920
the way you think about the
sector to our audience.

873
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:57,800
Thanks so much, Jack and Adam.
Yeah, I know.

874
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,840
Thanks guys.
We appreciate it a lot and like

875
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,600
nice to have a conversation with
people passionate about the

876
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,040
space and take good luck to you
guys too as well.

877
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:08,120
Thanks a lot.
Appreciate.

878
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:12,160
It guys and and hopefully we can
do this one next time in in

879
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:13,920
person.
That'd be that'd be great to do.

880
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:15,320
We'd love that.
We'd love that.

881
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:16,440
Absolutely.
Thanks, guys.

882
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,680
Lots of frothing.
If you couldn't tell JD, you

883
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,640
could tell couldn't.
You I could tell mate, I was

884
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,360
very excited to to share that
and I was very excited to speak

885
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,000
with them to to learn from them
and I hope the money miners got

886
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,000
as much out of that one as we
did mate.

887
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,440
All made possible thanks to our
fantastic partners Sandy Ground

888
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,560
Support who we featured in the
show there infra links as well.

889
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,640
Check them out.
And last but not least, focus

890
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,600
the platform by Market Tech.
Get around it.

891
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:41,120
Money minus hoodoo.
Hoodoo.

892
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,280
Now remember, I'm an idiot.
JD is an idiot.

893
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,680
If you thought any of this was
anything other than

894
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,360
entertainment, you're an idiot
and you need to read out a

895
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:50,880
disclaimer.