The Future of Underground Load & Haul

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Righto money miners, we've got
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And Speaking of something else

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spectacular coming our way, you
2 are coming with me.

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The Oz IMM Underground Operators
conference in Adelaide, Adela

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are April 7th to 9th.
Links in the show notes for the

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tickets are 100 bucks off bloody
using the code MOM 100.

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It's a bloody bargain for the
greatest underground mining

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conference in the world.
So today for this episode we are

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talking underground trucks and
loaders and specifically diesel,

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the battery, the hybrid to
diesel, electric wheel ends,

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bloody all that stuff.
And I've got a couple of subject

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matter experts with me today to
go into this.

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Say over here I've got my good
friend Darren Kwok from Bamico

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and Parenti fame and over here
Mr. Andrew Dawson from Sambic

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fame.
Not just any bloody Sambic

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person, the business lawn
manager for the haulage

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division.
For Sambic, load and haul.

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Yeah, load and haul.
Oh, bloody always get that.

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I remember when I interviewed
Mal back in the day, always got

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his title wrong.
Lady always corrected me.

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Right, lads?
So specifically what I want to

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talk about today.
So for load and haul.

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So when we say listeners, when
we say load, that's your bloody

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boggers that pick the bloody
dirt up and then they throw it

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in a truck which hauls it.
So that's your light and haul.

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So there's a bit happening in
the space with it's all, you

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know, currently all diesel
combustion engines.

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There was a talk, you know, a
few years ago that we're going

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bloody full, full electric
straight to battery, though

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there's you know, in open pits.
We've got diesel electric, which

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is, you know, your electric
powered wheel ends that are

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separate.
And then we've got potential

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hybrid versions.
We've just had a underground

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full battery troll at Sunrise
Dam.

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So let's So what are we?
Let's do some definitions of all

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those different versions.
So I might as well bloody ass

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the person that builds them.
Ozo and the zoo.

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Yeah.
So I guess just to start it off,

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Maddie, so Sammy's been building
loading hall for over 50 years.

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We've got quite a range of
classes of, of equipment,

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meaning sizes to suit different
markets and, and different

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applications.
Our smallest truck starts at 15

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tonne and it goes right up to 63
tonne, which is the probably the

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our biggest selling truck in
Australia anyway.

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Coupled with that, as you said,
we do have battery electric

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trucks as well in Canada.
There's a, a, a, a good number

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of 50 tonne trucks, battery
trucks running around and here

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in Australia we've got the
world's first 65 tonne battery

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truck that we were working with
Barming Co.

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On And that was the that was the
Sunrise Dam troll that I saw on

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bloody LinkedIn, wasn't it?
It was.

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So that's full battery.
Yep, we talked about

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definitions.
I think I think making that

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really clear at the very
beginnings important, right.

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So full battery, no other energy
source but that battery at the

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front of the truck.
And then you have hybrids, which

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is a mixture of both a battery
as well as a, a, a diesel engine

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or a diesel generator that
charges the battery.

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And then lastly diesel electric
where you have electric

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drivetrain but you still use a
diesel engine to then drive turn

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that into electricity and turns
that into a into a electric

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drivetrain.
And that's the, that's the one I

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want to start on.
I guess the it's the first step

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after full diesel combustion.
You'd say so and we've seen it

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trialled in underground like the
old joy loaders, but like just

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hasn't really been taken up.
It's so so give me some rope

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here.
It's essentially you fill it up

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with diesel that powers like a,
a diesel generator, which then

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sends electricity to independent
electric motors on the wheel

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ends which are independently
powered instead of, you know,

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normal transmission drivetrain
and all that side.

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And we've just think they
they've been trolled, hasn't

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been taken up underground, but
now sort of potentially going to

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be the case.
Why?

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Why haven't they been taken up
underground before?

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That, that's actually a really,
really good question.

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And and I know that Darren's
probably got a a a little more

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of a worldly view here if used
to could.

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Argue that would really make the
use.

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Good.
Never so.

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If I really will, I will answer
this in the most OEM oriented

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way possible.
So this type of technology D

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technology like any other
product in any other industry

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for, for OEMs, doesn't matter
who you are, you are, you are

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governed by one, one thing.
And that one thing is demand.

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If demand doesn't exist, there's
gonna be a, a delay in

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implementing a product or, or a
particular technology.

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Now, if we go to the question
about underground mining,

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underground mines are very hard
and they're very restrictive in,

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in how you operate equipment
'cause there's walls, 'cause

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there's walls and there's a roof
and A and a floor as well.

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So this is very restrictive
environment.

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It's this human nature and to,
to stick with what you know,

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diesel technology been around
50-60 years and we know it

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works, it works well.
So it's, it's, it's about

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introducing new risks to an
industry, whether those risks

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are real or, or they're
perceived, they do need to be

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addressed.
The risk, risk aversion.

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It's just, it's normal.
But then by extension, if we, if

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we kind of throw it over to the,
the contractor side, you don't

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want to risk production and you
don't want to risk getting your,

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your development leaders either.
So it kind of becomes this, this

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kind of hot pot of different
opinions and, and just different

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risk profiles about implementing
a new technology.

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And that's kind of that's one
reason why we are where we are.

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Because I assume, I assume Sam
that don't do like a monthly

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like reimbursement for the
contractors claim.

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Like if you you know things
didn't perform, you could hit

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them up for a, you know, a bit
extra.

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That's a great idea.
Can you?

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Can you?
That's a great.

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Idea.
Can you just pick it up what we.

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Are what we are going to.
Make if it all worked well and

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that and look, I've talked about
that previously as well.

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It's like the the first mover
theory with everything like it's

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a big and, and to be honest,
that's what the, you know, the

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big contractors, the two of yous
in Australia do say well, is

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that you do take, you know that
you are the future.

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You're the, you're the big dogs.
But you do do a lot of trials

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and you do and which you know,
it's, it costs money, it

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sacrifices production.
But to get into the future, you

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have to do it.
I think, I think one of the

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questions that it's a simple
question, it is why, right?

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So, so for the longest time, why
would you go to a diesel

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electric drivetrain, right?
And, and risk is one of those

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we're, we're, we know diesel
gear pretty well now.

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We've used it for a really long
time and, and we've refined it

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to, to a, to a fine art.
And really the, you know, people

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thought about emissions and they
said, well, going to a diesel

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electric doesn't really solve
our emissions problem, right?

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So why?
Why would we go to a diesel

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electric driveline?
And is there a clear advantage?

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What is?
What is the advantage?

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I'd like I would say that a few
years ago, the technology wasn't

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quite where it needed to be.
So the advantages were fairly

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thin.
So you've got the capital

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increase in the driveline,
you've got the R&D and then you

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have the risk.
So you layer all that together

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and it's a really difficult
proposition to go forward with

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as technology gets better as, as
engines and sorry as motors get

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more efficient.
You have to remember in a

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surface truck, you had a whole
lot of room to stick a really

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big motor into to do the work in
underground, we're defined by

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the envelope of the drive and
and the motors just simply

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weren't the power to to size
ratio that we needed it to be.

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As technology got better, all of
a sudden we now know that they

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could accelerate faster.
They're they're more energy

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efficient so you use less fuel
they, they lift faster if it's a

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loader for for example.
And so the benefits are becoming

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clearer and as the benefits get
better, I think absolutely we

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want to reduce emissions, but it
could just be a better machine.

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And and as you know as as
contractors, we just want the

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best machine and if it's the
best machine, we'll use them.

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And and that's where we are
today as we're looking at what

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is the best machine moving
forward.

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And and it's not just about
diesel electric, it's about the

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best machine for what type of
mine site, for what conditions

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and that's where we are.
And I assume the maintenance is

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the big because I can, mate.
I can probably cut it dearly

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while we're here the maintenance
because I these the diesel

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electric versions you, I assume
you've got no transmission, no

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up box, down box, is that right?
And there's probably a couple of

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other things that are absent.
The PTO might be absent.

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You could be running that off a
off an electric motor as well.

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So the, the idea is, or
certainly the expectation is

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that these are going to be more
reliable machines, less

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interventions.
So extension, it becomes safer

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because you don't need to touch
it as much.

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There's less things to break,
there's more uptime.

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Then there's that whole flow on
to productivity, which is super

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important for, for, for
contractors.

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And just to, I guess just to, to
reinforce the point, once we

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start removing items from a, a
mechanical drive line and

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introducing electric drive
lines, the, the expectation is

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that the, the lifespan of these
machines is going to extend out

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as well, which is going to drive
down your TCO.

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So Darren, Darren made a just
alluded to a point there about

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capital cost, which it, it's the
question we get asked.

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It's probably the number one
question.

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What What are you going to do
about how much?

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Does it cost?
That I can't tell you just yet,

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but it will be more expensive
than a diesel.

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But by how much we don't know
just yet.

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But the the the point here is
that.

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TV they cost a fortune when they
1st come out.

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Exactly right.
And now you get economies of

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scale and away we go.
But the obviously the, the, the,

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the longer the life will drive
down your, your TCO.

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So the the market will bear that
higher, that higher capital.

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Cost.
And so how does it work?

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So I assume there's a lot of
technology behind like these

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independent wheel ends, getting
them to talk to each other, the

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traction control like for, you
know, slipping when you're

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bogging, like driving up a
slippery decline.

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Like there's a bit that goes
into that.

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Is it different for the for the
trucks and the loaders or like

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what's what's happening?
Yeah.

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So with a, certainly with
trucking that when you turn a

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corner, one wheel will spin
faster than the other, right?

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Yeah.
So.

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On a conventional transmission.
Yeah, it's same on, on it's

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physics.
So any on any truck as well,

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when you're, you're turning
around, one will spin quicker

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than the other.
The magic in diesel electric

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actually resides in in the
software to to make that happen.

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So the the the control system
talking to the wheel lens.

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So you go faster and you slow
down.

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That's where it all all resides
in on a, the, the design on a

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loader is, is slightly
different.

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So rather than having four wheel
motors that you would on a truck

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on one on each wheel with a
loader, we actually have

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conventional axles with motors
attached to those.

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And the motors are actually set
up higher and then they'll run

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it, they'll run it that way.
So there's still that

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mechanical, the, the mechanic
mechanical physics side of it.

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We were spinning around.
So it's the boat basically.

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Both areas are covered, but to
answer your question, it

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actually all resides in the
software.

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So is that when you're saying
independent axles, are you

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saying 1 motor controls the back
wheels, 1 motor?

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Controls, yes, correct.
Yes, that will control the

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accident.
No, not on a loader loader, but

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on a on a truck.
Yes it is one motor.

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You also have to remember that
you have a lot more information

225
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:05,160
on an existing diesel truck.
You get to control the motor and

226
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,120
and the motor is how much torque
and how much power are you

227
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,120
making on what throttle
position, right?

228
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,920
That's really your control when
you have in on a truck, on a

229
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,600
diesel electric truck, you'll
have individual motors on each

230
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,640
wheel and you now know the speed
of each wheel and you now know

231
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,960
how much traction you have at
each wheel thousands of times a

232
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,040
second.
And that's if you think about

233
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,560
how cars have evolved, that's
pretty much how much control

234
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:34,080
we'll have in in the underground
mining world.

235
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,720
So, so if you know the inside
front left wheel is turning a

236
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:43,360
little bit slower than the
outside right wheel, then you

237
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,560
can say, well, you don't need
much torque on the inside, you

238
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:47,760
need more torque on the outside.
For example, with traction's

239
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,760
available, so we can reduce tire
wear, we could actually manage

240
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,560
traction.
And if you look at a loader, for

241
00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:57,200
example, as we attack, as we
attack the pile, we'll know

242
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,480
exactly how much torque we can
give to the traction that we

243
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,840
have and and the breakout forces
will be greater.

244
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,080
So it's about control and
information.

245
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,600
So the software's Andrew if we
have the information, we can

246
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,040
then drive a whole heap more
learning and better control of

247
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,760
the machine.
So when you're when you're

248
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,320
talking about lot lift quicker
and break out quicker when

249
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:22,960
you're when you're digging like
how does what's what's driving

250
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,960
that?
Where's the extra energy coming

251
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,600
from?
There's a, there's a few things.

252
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,960
I mean there's there's no lag,
so there's no Rev up time.

253
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:30,800
Yeah.
Right, so you're not waiting

254
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:31,040
for.
Them.

255
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:32,560
Yeah, no.
For the engine losses through

256
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,480
the system, you're not waiting
for the engine to Rev up so that

257
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,760
you can build the pressure to
then lift the bucket.

258
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:41,560
For example, electric motor.
An electric drivetrain will say

259
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,960
I need power to the hydraulics
now.

260
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,360
So there's an electric
drivetrain going to the bucket

261
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:47,320
as well?
Well, it's a.

262
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,400
It's a in some cases.
Yeah.

263
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:54,520
So you're you're sort of getting
what the electrical benefits of

264
00:14:54,520 --> 00:15:01,160
gun for battery without actually
having a battery in it.

265
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,040
This, this, this List things in
between where your energy starts

266
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:06,720
and where your energy needs to
go to.

267
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,440
Which means it's faster, Yeah.
And there's less loss.

268
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,640
What about what about water?
What's the what's the bloody,

269
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:19,600
the permeability of these these
things like or that because

270
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,520
that's the, you know, the big
difference to open pit you're

271
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,560
gonna have, you're gonna have
loaders like, you know, bogging

272
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,880
bloody sumps.
You're like bogging flooded

273
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:35,480
declines and salty water.
Oh bloody salty salty water.

274
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,520
God, if if contractors could
remove anything from the bloody

275
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,520
underground mining environment,
I'd reckon salty water would be

276
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:47,080
probably the friggin top of it.
So like, look, I assume water

277
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,960
wasn't a friggin afterthought.
That's probably the first thing

278
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,000
that came up about talking about
electric wheel ends in in

279
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,000
underground.
So what's what's been put into

280
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,320
making these things bloody?
Waterproof, yeah.

281
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,600
So there's well one is the the
design of the the motors and how

282
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,600
we how we run the the harnesses
themselves and protect the

283
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:11,320
harnesses.
So a lot of this is protected

284
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,400
through the the inherent design.
If we lose, you'll just go back

285
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,280
to your example about bogging
sumps.

286
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,320
One of the reasons the the DE
loader is designed differently

287
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,080
to the DE truck is for that.
So we know that miners will bog

288
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,320
sumps.
So the the motors are actually

289
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,400
positioned higher than what they
are on a on a truck.

290
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,000
The water axles can go into the
water, but you obviously want to

291
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,000
keep the motors out so they they
actually sit up higher and then

292
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,280
it's just the routing of the
harnesses and that just the

293
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,320
standard IP protections.
Yeah and a bit of common sense

294
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:46,040
too.
Just don't.

295
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,080
Before, you can't bake on that.
Don't high pressure clean the

296
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,200
motors right?
Yeah, I suppose a lot.

297
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,320
It's well, it's not like he's of
not like ears have gone like

298
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,360
straight to bloody full electric
everywhere, like, you know,

299
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:04,200
Sambic loaders and all that have
been electrically, electrically

300
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,400
powered by just like instead of
being hydraulically powered from

301
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,520
the sticks and everything.
So that's correct.

302
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,800
But yeah, it's definitely been a
since a few years ago, like just

303
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,599
that step change in thinking
like we've even we've even seen

304
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:24,800
it in the the global EV market
like like the rise of the plug

305
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,760
in hybrid.
So it's not like going straight

306
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,000
to full battery isn't
necessarily going to be the only

307
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,600
the only thing.
So, but then obviously we've

308
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:41,320
just seen like going to the full
end, the full battery truck

309
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:47,360
troll at sunrise Dam for like a
big same size truck is what

310
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:51,560
we're using for the diesel 1.
So like quirky head look.

311
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,000
How did it go?
Like the trial?

312
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,400
Like honest, honest feedback.
I think it went well.

313
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,360
I mean, I think the first thing
I always when people ask me

314
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:02,600
about that trial is I always
remind people it was a prototype

315
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:07,160
truck.
So if you use that lens, we used

316
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,520
a prototype truck in production,
which almost never happens.

317
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,680
Usually a prototype truck goes
to a mine site, you do a couple

318
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,680
of cycles, you pull it back out,
you let the other trucks go back

319
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,680
and do some work just to learn.
But this truck went in and it

320
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,160
did work and it did work for six
months that we that we did the,

321
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,360
the trial for.
It was part of the trucking

322
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,440
loop, the trucking cycle.
So for that I think it did

323
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,680
really, really well.
And we learnt the whole heap,

324
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,560
which is the whole point of a
trial, which is about learning,

325
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,600
learning about the machine.
But more importantly, we learnt

326
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,000
about the things around the
machine that needs to keep it

327
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,880
running.
You know, you talked about a bit

328
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,040
of a cooling in, in the full
battery piece.

329
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,680
I think that's because we
understand it more and, and it's

330
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,840
more than just the kit.
It's more than just the gear,

331
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,360
it's infrastructure, it's mine
planning.

332
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,640
So when you, when you add that
complexity to it and there's a

333
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,600
bit to chew on there, it's going
to take a little while for us to

334
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,120
understand it.
But the truck went in my, in my

335
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:09,520
opinion, really well.
We learnt, we learnt a whole

336
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,000
whole sleeve of stuff.
I'll give you an example of

337
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,080
something we never thought
about.

338
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,560
We know the truck was going to
be faster.

339
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,920
We know it's going to accelerate
faster.

340
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,640
What we didn't consider is when
you put one truck in between 10

341
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,680
other diesel trucks, 1 electric
diesel trucks, you're only as

342
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,040
fast as the truck ahead of you.
Yeah, right.

343
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,840
Yeah.
And so, so you could have a good

344
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,360
run, but more than likely, as
you know, more than likely

345
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:38,400
you're going to have a run where
you have a truck in front of

346
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,200
you, you're loaded, you might be
able to do X kmh, but the truck

347
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,280
in front of you can't.
So you're just going to do as

348
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,800
fast as the truck in front of
you and and you won't see the

349
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,280
benefit, right.
So so understanding what the

350
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,520
constraints are that.
'D be a tough one to pick in the

351
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:53,560
light up, wouldn't it?
That's right.

352
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,000
You just don't see that, but now
we know.

353
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,080
And then the other, the other
one, I, I love this other piece

354
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,080
is, you know, ranging society.
Everyone thinks that you want

355
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,920
the battery to be as full as
possible, as much as possible,

356
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:05,800
right?
Which means you, you know, sort

357
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,160
of tempted to put charges
everywhere or put batteries

358
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,640
everywhere.
And that's expensive and and and

359
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,960
you'll develop.
That the charge bays and the

360
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,480
battery bays.
But actually you want the truck

361
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,160
to be fairly empty at the top
when it comes down because you

362
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:25,240
want the energy from the region
to go somewhere, right?

363
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,840
And so you want to come down
fairly empty, but plan it so

364
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,480
well that when you get to the
bottom, the battery's fully

365
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,800
charged and you've got a free
hit.

366
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,960
Then you get to drive back up
again and then somewhere between

367
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,920
there and the ROM, you need to
put a battery in place.

368
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,840
Maybe if the, if the tram is too
far in the perfect world, you

369
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,440
might actually be able to get to
the ROM and come back downhill

370
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,440
again and actually almost close
the loop, right.

371
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,080
So, so that's another lesson
learned in the, in the

372
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,440
beginning, you sort of go, oh,
we might put a battery at the

373
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,000
top.
So you get a fully charged

374
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,920
battery when you go down, you're
sort of good to go.

375
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:00,360
But the lesson learned is
actually no, no, we want the

376
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:04,600
battery up top, maybe be 3040%
so that when it goes back down,

377
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,600
it's fully charged.
So that that whole charging

378
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,000
process for like the one you,
the one you've got at the

379
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,160
moment, the full battery one
like say can it like can it go

380
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:21,800
down a kilometre underground and
get up to the surface on one

381
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,600
battery without charging?
Can it do it yet?

382
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:30,120
Yeah, so the we were ranging
over 9 K Yeah, at sunrise.

383
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:31,760
Sunrise.
And the deepest point, it was

384
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,200
over over 8 for sure, yeah.
Just just one thing I want to

385
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,560
point out about this technology.
We say we, you know, we talk

386
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,160
about the payload, we talk about
that unit as being a 65 tonne

387
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,320
truck.
It's not the 65 tonne in the

388
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,240
back, but the machine has to
carry itself.

389
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:54,760
So we have a battery, A450 kWh
battery driving closer to 120

390
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,360
tonne on A1 in seven for a bit
over 9 kilometres.

391
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:01,680
So that's a real.
Battery is like 8 tonne isn't

392
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:02,960
it?
Yeah, close to 9 tonne, yeah,

393
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,000
Yeah, correct.
Yeah.

394
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,480
It's a real testament to the
technology and that ultimately

395
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,000
we're going to get there.
It's just however long that

396
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,840
market adoption is going to take
and how ready we are as an

397
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,800
industry to to bring it on so
that.

398
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,000
That region, like say you say
you're trimming down like, I

399
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,680
don't know, frigging 500 metres
underground, so 3 1/2 kilometres

400
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,520
worth of decline and you go in
at what you say like 30-40

401
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,200
percent.
Like would you?

402
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,200
So if you're going down
unloaded, by the time you get

403
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,320
down there to get a load like
would would that be fully

404
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:45,160
charged again from the region?
It's a lot of it depends, but

405
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,760
it's it's it's clearly not one
for one because you're going

406
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,800
down empty.
You're coming uploaded most of

407
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,560
the time.
So it's not one for one, but

408
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,120
it's actually, it's so effective
that we had the opposite

409
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:57,160
problem.
We had too much power.

410
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,520
And when you have too much
power, you have to do something.

411
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,720
The energy can't be dissipated
invisibly, so you have to turn

412
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,920
it into something, right?
So actually you might reduce

413
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,920
performance if you have nowhere
to put the power going downhill,

414
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,720
right?
So you have to turn to heat, for

415
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,200
example.
So, so it's pretty efficient.

416
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,680
And, and once you know what it
is, you can plan for it.

417
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,320
And it's a science.
You, you plan for it to, to do

418
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,760
the cycle, you know your cycle
loop.

419
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,880
And then when you come back down
again, you know, you have to be

420
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,440
about 40% and, and off you go
again.

421
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,040
Remember, we have control over
how much we charged the battery

422
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,120
in the 1st place.
So you might not charge it to

423
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:35,800
100%, right.
You might charge it to 80

424
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,000
because that's all you need by
the time you get up and get back

425
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,760
down again and that's all done
digitally.

426
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,720
We we have management of that.
Is it?

427
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,280
Is it just a normal lithium
battery?

428
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,040
Lithium ion phosphate, yeah,
correct.

429
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,920
Is it so?
Is it the same?

430
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,640
Is it the same rule with these
ones like say like if you charge

431
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:58,280
above 80%, yeah, like the
longevity of the battery could

432
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,200
be affected, so you should only
charge the 80% or is it the what

433
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,000
100% you refer to?
Is that the 80%?

434
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:09,320
We put, I believe we put
measures in place so we weren't

435
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,520
actually now we we would put
measures in place so we couldn't

436
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,080
go under a certain charge.
We also couldn't go over the

437
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:15,400
top.
Yeah, we couldn't go over the

438
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:16,000
top.
Yeah, we don't.

439
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,280
Want to there is a sweet battery
either?

440
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,200
Hey look what a beautiful
relationship you guys have.

441
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,360
Because because we would, we
would charge it, right.

442
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:28,160
But the, the, the, the reality
is we're reducing, we're

443
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,880
reducing its life by charging it
to the top.

444
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,240
So, you know, the, the battery's
really interesting conversation

445
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,080
because the more we get maturity
and information about this,

446
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,760
everyone wants the latest and
the greatest, the most energy

447
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,480
dense per kilogram of of
battery, but but there are more

448
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,720
expensive battery.
So there will come a point where

449
00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:50,360
we actually don't want the
latest and the greatest for some

450
00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:52,240
mine sites because we don't need
it.

451
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,880
We don't need the energy density
and we might get away with a

452
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,720
smaller battery.
So, so there's a middle ground

453
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,440
as we, as we understand it more
that we understand the cost of

454
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,960
the energy more and what we need
for different types of mine

455
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,680
sites, more will be more
effective.

456
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,800
And oh, and, and OEMs, you know,
I, I, I have some empathy for

457
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,840
OEMs sometimes.
Andrew knows that, you know, we,

458
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,040
everyone's asking them for more,
but the reality is we, we need

459
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,240
to understand what we can do
with the things we already have

460
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,440
before we ask because more is
expensive.

461
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,440
So, so that's, that's where we
are now is we have a whole heap

462
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,640
of data from various trials.
And then we're trying to say,

463
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,960
OK, well, what does that look
like for a sunrise dam?

464
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,600
What does that look like for a
smaller mine site somewhere

465
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,360
else?
What are the, you know, what,

466
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,040
what if it's not a decline mine?
What if it's a shaft mine and

467
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,280
you're only trucking on the
level?

468
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,760
So all of those things change to
the dynamics.

469
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,600
If you're trucking on the level,
you don't need a massive battery

470
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:51,320
because it's on the flats and
you're doing a small loop.

471
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:55,880
You might only need 3/4 of a
shift for blast time and you get

472
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,120
a new battery.
And it should.

473
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,560
It should compound a little bit
because if you're using like a

474
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,040
smaller battery, like you've got
less battery white, so you

475
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:11,520
should maybe chew the battery
less per size due to less

476
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,080
battery white.
So yeah.

477
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,160
And what like for that truck
options for that truck?

478
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,960
So because I remember when we
had Shane Mcclay come in from

479
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,520
Entek and like, you know, he's
sort of prediction for the, you

480
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,920
know, the future of, you know,
the what plug insurance or

481
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,440
battery swap or battery
charging.

482
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,400
He was saying that he probably
thinks it'll be more battery

483
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,600
charging instead of like having
to drop the battery and have

484
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,800
extra batteries and cycling and
all that.

485
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,520
Like so, and probably applies
more to to loaders because

486
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,880
you'll have like a loader can
just pull up at a jumbo box and

487
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,080
plug it in and or it can when it
goes for a daily, it plugs in

488
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,440
for 20 minutes and like
recharges itself with 1000 Volt.

489
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,200
So a lot like that truck you got
at the moment, like sides,

490
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,080
right, run out of juice or
something and they're pulled

491
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,840
onto a level like can they
actually get a Macy plug from a

492
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,760
jumbo box or something and plug
it in and.

493
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,120
Charge themselves well so with
the Sandvik truck the batteries

494
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,360
actually come off so we have an
off board charging system I'd.

495
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:19,800
Say so you can't charge that
battery.

496
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,760
Yeah, you could if you'd have to
take some plates off, but you

497
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,320
could if you it's doable.
It's it's doable.

498
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,640
But the, the actual system is
designed that you drive into

499
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,920
your Bay, you put the battery
down, you drive out on a, on a

500
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,680
smaller trimming battery, go and
pick up a fresh battery and and

501
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,480
away you go.
Then attend an attendant or the

502
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,000
operator will go and then plug
that one that battery in and you

503
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,800
just continue on your on your
cycle.

504
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,200
So what about what about the
heat like you mentioned about

505
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,840
dissipating the heat, like say
you you're going down and like

506
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,320
the regions recharge to like
100% or so.

507
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,160
Like did you like how much
heat's actually getting

508
00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,800
dissipated?
Did you notice how much it was?

509
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,040
I assume it's probably less than
a diesel, a full bloody diesel

510
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,920
truck, but is it make things
hot?

511
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,080
We've got it, we've got it
wrong.

512
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,280
If we're having to dissipate
heat, it means we haven't

513
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,040
planned the journey down right.
So if you plan it right, then,

514
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,120
then the problem with
dissipating heat isn't there.

515
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,560
But we know, we know it's a far
cooler mine.

516
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,640
If it, if you could click your
fingers and have all electric

517
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,400
gear underground, we know it'll
be a far cooler mine.

518
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:36,360
We know that we'll need this
vent and and that the savings in

519
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:40,760
not just vent is also in
Refridge, for example, for some

520
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,480
of the hotter mines out there.
So there are benefits to this

521
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,280
gear when it comes to being
cooler.

522
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,920
We did a study with one of our
clients, IGO where a couple of a

523
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,200
couple of interesting things
came out of that study.

524
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:58,080
One was that the cost parity was
pretty close for that particular

525
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,960
mine 2 because of the reduction
in fridge refridge on the

526
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:08,680
surface of that mine.
It actually used less power net

527
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,680
with going electric.
So that because you're not using

528
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,520
the power of the surface to
refridge the air to come back

529
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,160
down, to cool the air coming
back down, that reduction more

530
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,720
than compensated for the energy
to charge the machines.

531
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,040
So your net energy use came down
as as well.

532
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,400
So which then also then spoke
about infrastructure costs and

533
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:29,760
so on.
So there's a, there's a whole

534
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,640
systems view.
You have to look at the whole

535
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,240
mine as a system now, as opposed
to individual bits of equipment

536
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,360
to to look at the value
proposition.

537
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,320
Yeah, right.
So, OK.

538
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,520
So the I guess your first
intermediate steps, what we've

539
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,520
just gone through, which is the
diesel electric independent

540
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,400
wheel ends, full battery is the
final stop.

541
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,880
What about in between that like
hybrids, like what are we, you

542
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,240
know, what are we going to look
at like, you know, have a

543
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:04,440
smaller battery electric wheel
ends with smaller diesel Jenny

544
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,720
on.
What's is that?

545
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:12,040
Is that being scoped out at the
moment, or is it why and what's?

546
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,040
What could that possibly look
like?

547
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,800
Yeah, So you're exactly right.
So with hybrid, it means it's

548
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,200
it's a hybrid is a dual, dual
power source.

549
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,760
So we'll try the bloody Zambic.
Shirt on today like it's like a

550
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:30,360
work for you something.
The, so you, you, you, you, it's

551
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,280
like your Prius, right?
So when you're in your Prius and

552
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,520
you pull up to your satellites
and the engine shuts and you

553
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,680
take away off in, in, in
batteries.

554
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,320
So that's kind of the
expectation about what a hybrid

555
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:42,960
technology is going to be like
in underground.

556
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,800
Whether it kind of gets to that
point in, in, in practicality is

557
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,920
another thing.
And it goes back to Darren's

558
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,680
comments earlier about the size
of the envelope and the size of

559
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,120
the machine and trying to cram
everything in and your point

560
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,680
about the size of the battery,
because there's limitations on

561
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,440
what you can do.
So basically we can, we can

562
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,400
approach this from two ways.
We can say, right, we want this

563
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,360
technology to be able to take us
up a up a decline, right, which

564
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,200
is if we, if we start going down
that road, the batch is probably

565
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:15,640
going to be too big for what we
want.

566
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,120
But if we want to be down and
down on, on a flat level and

567
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,920
we're waiting to be loaded, we
want to shut that engine.

568
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,480
We want to keep the air con
going, but we still want to move

569
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,080
the truck up and down.
So we for, for intention, for

570
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,840
intense and purposes for the
operator, they've got 100%

571
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,080
operational truck, they've got
the cool wind blowing and they

572
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:36,600
can move up and down and get
loaded.

573
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,920
When they then are loaded and
then they go to the to the

574
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,960
decline the battery, the diesel
engine will kick back in and

575
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,960
they'll go off that way.
So that's kind of I guess how

576
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:53,640
we're seeing it right now.
Battery technology will continue

577
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,280
to develop.
There's no, no questions with

578
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,920
that.
It's just how how long that

579
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:03,480
technology develops to, to being
the size of the battery I think

580
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,480
will dictate how far we end up
going with this hybrid

581
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,440
technology.
And the other question is at

582
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,880
what point does it cut off if
that battery power gets so, so

583
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,360
great or the technology so
advanced, when does it become a

584
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,080
battery loader?
And then you don't even need the

585
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:25,080
the the engine anymore.
And back-to-back to why, why a

586
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,960
hybrid is, you know, a hybrid
gives us the ultimate

587
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,600
flexibility.
You know, one of the, one of the

588
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,240
concerns and the challenges with
a full battery machine is you

589
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,920
have to somehow get the energy
from a charger into the battery

590
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,640
into the machine to then do your
work.

591
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,880
And that takes time.
And right now the way charging

592
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,080
happens, it takes longer than
you tipping some diesel into a

593
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,960
tank.
So that's the challenge.

594
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:54,800
So as charging speeds increase,
then that delta changes again.

595
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,840
And so so the, the question is,
why do we want a hybrid?

596
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,240
It's because we want
flexibility.

597
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,160
You know, diesel has given us a
shift's worth of flexibility and

598
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,320
we sort of got used to that.
And right now battery has taken

599
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,360
a bit of that away.
But as that flexibility

600
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,520
increases because battery
density gets improved, charging

601
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,080
speeds gets improved.
You know, one of the the things

602
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,280
that I've always spoken to Samic
about in the last two years and

603
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,200
some of their machines, they're
for the same size battery, the

604
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,320
energy density's gone up by 20
and 30%.

605
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,240
That's just pure technology.
And so in two years, if that can

606
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,480
occur, imagine what it's going
to be like in the next two years

607
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,320
because it's exponential and
charging speed's got the real

608
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,160
limitation here as well is how
much power do you have on your

609
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,040
mindset?
Because they're not talking

610
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,160
about one bit of gear, you're
talking about multiple pieces of

611
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,040
equipment.
They all are demanding energy

612
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,440
from somewhere.
So we need to think about this

613
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,120
as energy flow and, and we need
to start thinking about our

614
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,920
minds as we, we think about it
as material flow.

615
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,920
We've always thought about that
as material flow, but in an

616
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,600
electric mind, you start
thinking about energy flow as

617
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,760
well, because energy flow is
also material flow.

618
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,960
You need to have the same thing.
So if you if you think of it OK,

619
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:10,199
what it is now like you've got,
so you've got diesel, diesel

620
00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:14,280
trucks and loaders underground,
you've got diesel generators on

621
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:21,239
the surface which provide the
power to all the mine site say

622
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,560
if you're like converted to full
battery for everything

623
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,199
underground.
So you're saving on diesel

624
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:32,600
filling them up, but you're
using diesel to charge them.

625
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:42,960
Would you use sign more or less
diesel to recharge everything

626
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:49,480
full battery than you would if
it was all diesel powered

627
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,120
machinery?
Really interesting question.

628
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,920
And, and, and so we're doing at
Parenti, we're doing a lot of

629
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,160
work with our customers at, at
that PFSDFS stage of studying

630
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,360
the mine.
So we know how to draw up a mine

631
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,560
pretty well as a diesel mine,
but we need to learn how to draw

632
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,480
up a mine as an electric model,
hybrid mine for example.

633
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,560
And that will answer those
questions because and the

634
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,600
generator making electricity is
often more efficient, efficient

635
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:21,120
on fuel than a motor driving a
machine.

636
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,720
So a genset will sit there and
hum it 1800 RPM and make power,

637
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:31,360
which will then go into your
battery and use less litres per

638
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,440
kilowatt.
Then if you're using that same

639
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:39,040
motor in a truck that has to do
2000 RPM and fluctuates up and

640
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,920
down, right.
So, so there's efficiencies in

641
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,000
the system.
Again, back to the whole systems

642
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,240
view, there's efficiencies in
the system everywhere and you

643
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:49,320
got to capture those.
And as you add the 2% and the 5%

644
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,520
here and there, it starts
stacking up to the value

645
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,800
proposition.
And, and that's where that's

646
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,200
what the work is, is right now
is trying to understand for what

647
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:58,360
mine sites, is it the
Greenfield?

648
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,920
Is it the brownfield?
Can we avoid event rise at a

649
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,680
Greenfield level that will save
us some capital costs upfront?

650
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,680
All of those things add up to
the value proposition of

651
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,160
electric mines.
And I'll assume, I'll assume the

652
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,560
tendering process is gonna, you
know, that'll probably change

653
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,080
because you're like, things
you've just described are all

654
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,880
like, you know, cost benefits to
the client.

655
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,800
So it's like, whereas the
contractor wants to bloody make

656
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,280
the money, but they've got to
like, when's that cost benefit

657
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:26,920
flow under the contractor lock
today?

658
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,320
Because they're going to outline
the capital for potentially more

659
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:35,360
expensive machines.
Will the schedule of rates

660
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,200
change or will it be, you know,
higher dollar per TKM and a

661
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,880
higher dollar per bloody tonne
move for a bogger if you're

662
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,960
using that type of equipment,
like how's it going to flow into

663
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:47,760
your pockets?
I.

664
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:49,920
Mean at end of the day, we all
want the same thing.

665
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:51,840
We want the safest, most
productive mine.

666
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,480
We can deliver a chance of
winning a contract too.

667
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,280
It also, it also means that we
get to be more collaborative

668
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,640
with our client because end of
the day, we want to we have to

669
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,680
think about the processing plant
when we didn't have to before We

670
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,800
have to work together closer.
That's the ultimate conversation

671
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,080
here is we have to work with
everyone in the in in the value

672
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,800
chain to make sure we produce
the best mine possible for an

673
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,680
electric mine.
Yes, there's a whole heap of,

674
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,600
you know, commercial
machinations that today don't

675
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,960
work in the electric world, but
we'll, we'll get to that.

676
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,400
If this is the safest, most
productive mind, then all the

677
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,920
people that I know around us,
including our customers and

678
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,640
ourselves, we'll come to a place
where we can make it work,

679
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,120
right.
So, so I, I think, I think the

680
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,520
question now is, OK, how do we,
how do we define it?

681
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:41,560
You know, even down to KPIs, you
know, TKMS work on, on engine

682
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,920
hours and idle hours.
Electric machine doesn't idle,

683
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,720
right?
So, so all of a sudden all of

684
00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:52,720
the mats don't add up anymore.
So, so all of those things we

685
00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:55,400
still need to sort of define and
it has to be believable and

686
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:56,800
everyone has to have a trust in
it.

687
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,720
But once we get there, it'll
just, I, I do believe at some

688
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,720
point we do this right and the
technology goes the way it

689
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:05,880
should.
It'll just simply be a better

690
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,920
way, a better machine.
You know, that that also has

691
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,120
less emissions and it's safer
and and so on.

692
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,120
So it it, it is a win, win if we
get it right.

693
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,160
Yeah.
So Andrew, what about like like

694
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:24,040
Hemi Hemi, for instance, like
you've got that's probably one

695
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,680
of the more more grain fields
like, you know, potentially big

696
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,040
underground projects coming up.
I assume with Northern Stars

697
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,120
border they're going to take a
bloody underground you would

698
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,800
assume so eventually so that,
you know, that has the potential

699
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:42,760
to be designed for to take into
account a more battery green

700
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,960
friendly load and haul system
for that mind.

701
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,640
What sort of like for, you know,
companies like that with the

702
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,680
Greenfields project?
Like is there much at the moment

703
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:59,760
like collaboration between them
and OEMs about the design?

704
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,320
Like what machines might be
available then?

705
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,280
How's it going to work like all
that?

706
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,560
Yeah, there's a, there's a lot.
So we actually have a dedicated

707
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,400
applications engineering team.
So they will go and work with

708
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,080
companies like Barminco and, and
others and they will start

709
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,600
planning and, and working out
what the mine should look like.

710
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,080
That will be, as Darren was
saying earlier, that the best

711
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,040
thing to do is to, to haul down.
Whether or not that's a

712
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,720
practicality, I don't know, but
it's more around charge by

713
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:32,840
design.
So all the runs.

714
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,400
So during the the, the life of
the mine, it's all planned out

715
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,000
in stages and then you they can
see where charge charging bays

716
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,480
need to be at any certain point.
So the cycle will continue on.

717
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,600
So because Sambit uses off board
charging, we can just

718
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,760
continually take the charging
infrastructure.

719
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,440
We'll just follow the mind down.
It's no big deal.

720
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,680
And then we'll just that'll just
be engineered with the engineer

721
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:03,200
applications team and then
they'll have a design from from

722
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,840
the start.
Sounds sounds bloody easy,

723
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,920
doesn't it?
Does yeah, you just got to you

724
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,720
just got to make the power.
That's the that's the thing.

725
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,760
Well.
We've yeah, we've definitely

726
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:18,160
arped on enough about the rocks
and move and bloody rocks I

727
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,680
reckon is we'll have plenty of
other stuff in your bloody big

728
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,200
boots at Underground Operators
conference.

729
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,840
And yeah, so what's I guess one
of the other bloody, you know,

730
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:32,520
big ticket items will be looking
to what we're saying this year

731
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:37,080
in Adelaide.
So we'll have the the LH 518 IB

732
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:42,120
battery loader.
So that will be showcase in our

733
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:43,400
booth.
I think it's probably gonna take

734
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:44,960
up the majority of the real
estate.

735
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,600
God, how you get all this shit?
In there, we're not seeing like

736
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,120
it's a, it's like a bloody, I
don't know what you.

737
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,520
It's like a Walmart where it is
when it's all getting put

738
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,400
together, there's four.
Cliffs and shit, yeah, it's

739
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,320
ready to drive on and.
That's the full battery.

740
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:58,800
Lighter is.
It yeah, correct.

741
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,360
Yeah, yeah.
So that, that will be prepped

742
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,600
and and ready to go and we're
excited about that, that and now

743
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,480
we'll have various other
digitalization and remote

744
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,000
monitoring areas around.
There'll be a big focus on

745
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,960
digitalization for us this year.
Very good.

746
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,320
What about in the parenti bar
Minko tent?

747
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,880
Or is it all in one tent?
I don't know, we're exciting as

748
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,200
having a big bit of kit in the
middle of our stand.

749
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,400
But Mick Roddy, our vice
president of Australia is doing

750
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,760
a tour kit at AUS Imm.
Yeah, on the grounds on and to,

751
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,200
to the point of today, which is
about, you know, collaborative

752
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,080
contracting.
You know, the, the modern

753
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,000
contractor is about working with
people, partnering with folk.

754
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:38,480
So he'll be doing a talk on
that.

755
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:41,800
But really these, these events
are an opportunity for us.

756
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,360
So we bring a whole heap of folk
from OPS and from, you know,

757
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,360
functional support service that
myself and my team are going

758
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,120
along because for us it's an
opportunity to talk to our

759
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,480
customers.
And importantly, it's it's an

760
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,520
opportunity to have a look at
the rest of industry.

761
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,400
What's everyone else thinking
and talking about?

762
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,160
And how can we build, you know,
better outcomes by just having

763
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,920
those conversations over a beer
or at the at the stand?

764
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,600
Because often that's where, you
know, as much as Andrew hates

765
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,120
the thought of it, you know, we
talk to other other folks in the

766
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:15,000
industry.
Rigidy's just trying to make you

767
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:15,640
trying to.
Yeah, maybe.

768
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:20,080
I don't reckon you like that.
But yes, it's, it's, it's for

769
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,560
us, it's learning, it's sharing
what we're doing.

770
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,000
And also it gives us a chance
to, to sort of take the

771
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,280
temperature of what people are
thinking, you know, how, how,

772
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,080
how, how can we help and how
can, how can we work together

773
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,680
and get this thing moving?
Yeah, very exciting, very

774
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,600
exciting on used to be used to
be advocates this as well.

775
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:41,800
Like, mate, if you're bloody, if
you're a young person in the

776
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,520
mining industry, like if you go
to this, like you learn about

777
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,800
the bloody past, present, the
future of underground, like you

778
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:55,200
get to make friggin any company
who runs the companies bloody

779
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,080
like good prezzos like you just
it is such a good learning

780
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,080
ground.
I wish I were bloody wish I went

781
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,960
there at a younger age.
I was too busy socialising and

782
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,840
not thinking about mine.
That's all I think about.

783
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,480
Yeah, anyway, yeah, thanks a
blood cells.

784
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,760
Well, as you can see, I followed
the question list diligently as

785
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,760
as you knew or would any
anything we missed?

786
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:22,680
Nothing from my side.
I, I, I think, I think we'll get

787
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,000
there.
I think we're learning.

788
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,920
I think diesel, electric and
hybrids are a stepping stone.

789
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,880
It'll teach us and our people
and how the equipment works and,

790
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,240
but we're slowly learning and
and we'll slowly get there.

791
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,040
Yeah, can't thank you is enough
for coming in late on a Friday

792
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:43,280
and I'd get ya bloody tickets to
Underground Operators Conference

793
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,560
April 7th, the 9th Lincoln the
show.

794
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,440
Now it's 100 bucks off buy money
of mine.

795
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:49,320
Exciting stuff.
Thanks.

796
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,560
Thanks mate.
The information contained in

797
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,360
this episode of Money of Mine is
of general nature only and does

798
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,160
not take into account the
objectives, financial situation

799
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,240
or needs of any particular
person.

800
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,560
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

801
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,640
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

802
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,320
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.