The Future of Mining with Alan Broome

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Now, if you think about the fact
that they're using humanoid

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robots in all sorts of
applications now, there was a

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video I saw the other day of
humanoid rosebots already in

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China being used as part of the
police force.

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So that's where we are right now
this very time.

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So if you think about it, in
10/15/20 years, there's going to

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be machines running around
autonomously underground and

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where you need a manual
intervention, it's probably

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going to be robots that are
going going to be doing so.

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I see this evolution as being
really quite continuous and and

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much faster in the future than
it's ever been before.

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Righto buddy miners, we've got a
bloody special stand alone

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interview here, quite pertinent
in the lead up to the GRX

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conference in Brisbane in May
coming up.

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It is centred around technology,
innovation, excellence in the

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mining industry and we've pretty
much found the nucleus of tech

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and innovation in the mining
industry.

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This bloke has been on every
single board that has had

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something to do with tech, I'd
say in the mining industry.

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Alan Broome, absolute honoured.
Have you on the show.

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Cobba welcome.
Thanks.

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Thanks, Matt.
And I'm, I'm very pleased to be

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here.
Hopefully, hopefully I can make

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some sensible comments.
We'll see.

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Oh, don't, don't worry mate,
I'll offset offset them against

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my ones.
So, mate, it is, we're, oh,

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look, it's a great industry
we're in at the moment.

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In turn, everything's gonna be
on show at GRX.

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But like tech and innovation is
probably at the, and coupled

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with AI, the buzzword at the
moment, what the future of the

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mining industry is gonna look
like is more complex and unknown

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than ever.
So I guess in this yard, we

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wanna go through like, look, the
history of the mining industry

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and the tech innovations where
we're, where we've been, where

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we're at and where we're going.
So let's take it away because I

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think in Australia, you could
say automation and everything

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hasn't really taken off
widespread.

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But your leaders like your Rio
Tinto and BHP and the iron ore

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have just really they're miles
above the pack with automation

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you'd say, whereas I'm, I'm the
underground mining guy and it

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probably just hasn't hit us yet.
So what's your view on I guess

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the last few decades and where
automation and tech have gone

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to?
That's a really good question

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because I think if you look
back, let's let's, let's look

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back 50 years, you know, where
was Australian mining 50 years

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ago?
It was a very, very manually

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orientated industry.
We were mainly focused on

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producing gold in places like
Kalgoorlie and, and other other

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places in WA.
We, we had, you know, Broken

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Hill, which was mainly lead and
zinc and a lot of that equipment

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was fairly, fairly fundamental
equipment at the time.

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And you know, up in Queensland
we're out of Mount Isa with MIM

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and not with MIM in the 1st
place, but looking at copper

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developments in that, in that
part of the world.

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It was, it was, it wasn't, it
wasn't automated, but it wasn't

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ultimately, you know, it wasn't
really manual.

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There was a lot of robust
equipment, but there was a lot

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of manpower required to operate
it.

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So it was a very labour
intensive industry that was

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looking for ways to go forward.
And I think, you know, as we

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grew as an industry, as mining
in Australia grew as an

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industry, we became more
sophisticated and we did, you

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know, more and more and bigger
and bigger things.

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And you know, effectively, I
think we, we sort of morphed

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into, you know, the production
of iron ore in the Pilbara

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through a number of steps.
And you know, the big operators

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in the Pilbara now, you know,
Rio Tinto, Fortescue, BHP.

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And we also grew in coal.
And if you remember, BHP got

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involved in hard coking coal in
the bow and basin through the

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acquisition of Utah in the 1st
place and then more and more

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revolution of, of, of that.
So we morphed from a, you know,

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a small mining, a small mining
project orientated industry to a

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large mining project orientated
industry.

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And when with that came
technological steps along the

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way which improve things.
I mean, I've, you know, in the

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first instance, I remember that
when I joined the industry, you

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know, more than a couple of
weeks ago, it was still the

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only, the only pit pony still
operating in Australia was

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operating up in up in the
northern part of Queensland and,

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you know, pulling carts along a
roadway with a, with a, with a

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pit pony.
We now operate long war mines

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that are almost close to being
fully automated.

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So we've morphed into a really
high tech industry and most

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people don't actually see how
that's evolved, but it's evolved

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really, in my view fairly
rapidly.

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I think the next piece is going
to be the really exciting bit

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because as you just said,
Maddie, you know, you don't see

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automation in underground to the
degree that we see automation in

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surface mining.
It's only, it's only going to be

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a matter of minutes away because
all the big underground mining

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equipment manufacturers have now
developed, you know, what are

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really fully autonomous mining
and transport equipment and

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they're being deployed not only
in Australia, but in global

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mining industries and, and
they're going very successfully.

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So it's been a been an evolution
of an industry.

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You know, we're talking about an
industry that's over 10% of

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Australian GDP, which is pretty
impressive.

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But I think the point that you
make about technology, if you

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add in the Australian MIT
sector, which is mining

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equipment, technology and
services, you know the people in

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that industry sector, that
industry sector collectively

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turns over another 160 billion
Australian dollars.

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So you've add mining.
If you earn the mining bit to

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the Mets bit, all of a sudden
the GDP impact on Australia goes

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from 10% to 12%.
So it's a fairly big component

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of what we do in mining, the
evolution of technology and the

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introduction of technology.
Alan, I'm, I'm keen to, to look

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to the future now as you kind of
painted the picture there and,

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and get your take on, on what
are mine say, if we say, if

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we're talking about 10 or 20
years in the future, what that

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kind of looks like.
We had this discussion with a

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couple other guests not too long
ago and it was a a super, super

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interesting discussion to to
kind of get into the

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ramifications of.
What a a world.

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Looks like in a a fully
automated underground

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environment and where kind of
government regulation and

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everything pushes you, how do
you kind of say that?

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Well, I think you just hit on
the head.

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It's not, it's not government
regulation that will require the

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industry to actually work more
and more with, you know, more

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innovative solutions.
It's it's really the industry

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itself that has to do that.
And if I go back one step, at

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one point I chaired a joint
venture between Rio Tinto Copper

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and Codelco.
Codelco is the world's largest

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mining company.
They operate the world's largest

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underground mine at El Tenente
in Chile.

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And they've just constructed the
world's second largest

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underground mine, which is the
Chuky Kumata underground copper

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mine, which is below the
original copper open cut pit

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that they operated.
That's the best best

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pronunciations I've ever seen
from an Australian for those

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mines.
Broomy, well done.

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I've spent a lot of time in, in,
in Chile, so people give me a

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hard time.
I did a presentation to the, the

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Chilean equivalent of Osman, who
we actually helped develop in

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Chile and they said the next
time you come here, you've got

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to do it in Spanish rather than
in English.

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And that was a challenge.
Now, anyway, I didn't do that.

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But, but I, I digress.
The, the reason that I raise

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that is that when we were doing
the, the work with Rio de Cobra,

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we were introducing automated
surface equipment to both Rio

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Rio Tinto and to and to Kodelka.
And we introduced the first of

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the very large automated fully
autonomous Komatsu fleets in

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both of those companies.
And that was really a

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groundbreaking move.
It's the first time we'd seen

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automated driverless trucks
being introduced in South

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America and the first time we'd
seen it in Australia.

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And that made people stand up
and say, well that's really

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interesting, why are you doing
that?

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The reason is efficiency.
We're looking at, you know, a

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machine that could be operated
in longer periods with actually

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in real terms a better profile
in terms of maintenance cost.

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So there are real good reasons
for doing it, productivity and

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cost that's now developed into
the underground sector.

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And in again, if I go back and
use Chile as an example, those

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mining equipment manufacturers
who manufacture give underground

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mines, they've actually got
quite a lot of automated kit in

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places underground in those
really deep, deep mines.

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Shookie Kamada, for example, is
1600 meters of their first,

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their first shaft was 1600
meters deep.

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They're deeper than that now.
And you know you've got rock

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temperatures of 60° and they're
running at a head grade around

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about point 6.7.
So it's tough and when you're

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operating in draw points to
bring out large volumes of

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material, to try and do it with
a manually operated machine is

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tedious at best.
And it can be dangerous and it

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can be really difficult to get
people to operate.

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So what you do is you automate
it.

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So they've automated that
process.

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So if that's where we are today,
to answer your your question,

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Jonas, where are we going to be?
I reckon we're going to see more

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and more automation.
We're going to have more and

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more automation, in particular
in underground because I can be

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controversial here and say, you
know, most of the big surface

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mining mines in the world have
already been developed.

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They're already there.
There's going to be some that

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are developed as we go forward.
But the real future is in

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underground mining and in
underground mining it's going to

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be probably deeper, probably
more difficult.

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So you've got to have more and
more automation.

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So I think automation of
underground is a big deal.

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And what do I see?
I see the use of obviously

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autonomous systems being
critical, but I also see the use

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of of robotic systems being
being some somewhat that we're

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going to have to adopt as an, as
an industry.

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I don't know whether you guys
follow.

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There's an American company
called Boston Dynamics and they

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make humanoid robots.
Now, if you think about the fact

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that they're using humanoid
robots in all sorts of

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applications now, there was a
video I saw the other day of

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humanoid robots already in China
being used as part of a police

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force.
So that's where we are right now

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this very time.
So if you think about it, in

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10/15/20 years, there's going to
be machines running around

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autonomously underground and
where you need manual

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intervention, it's probably
going to be robots that are

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going to be doing it.
So I see this evolution as being

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really quite continuous and and
much faster in the future than

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it's ever been before.
So that's part of the part of

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the answer, Jonas.
Yeah, on because on the

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underground side of things with
the, and the argument will

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always be like if you look at
open pits, open pits are, you

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know, big or small, They're
pretty, they're homogeneous in

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the style of their mind in a
way.

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But it's just the size of varies
where underground mines are like

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garden or pizza shop, there's
about 27 different flavours of

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the way you can mine these and
then the scale of it is going to

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change.
And I guess the, the focus has

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always been around how, how can
automation help these small

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scale operations.
So like on the smaller end of

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town for underground mining, do
you think it's actually going to

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be automation that's going to be
bigger or technology

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advancements that makes what
we're doing at the moment

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faster?
Or a good.

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Probably the latter.
Probably the latter because if

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you're a smaller operator using
smaller machines, maybe, maybe

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not, but you're certainly using
less machine, there's less units

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in your fleet.
So you're probably going to be

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using, you know, more efficient
smaller number of machines and

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there could be smaller machines.
So I think it's in the second

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part of your answer.
What I do see is that in the

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smaller mining operations and
probably in some of the bigger

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operations, I think that there's
going to be a big focus on in

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situ mining, particular in
copper.

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So if I, if I switch now to the
where is the future for mining

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00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,520
in Australia and probably in the
world, there's a huge deficit

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00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,760
gap in the availability of
copper going forward than right

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00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,440
now.
In other words, there's more

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demand for copper than there is
the availability of copper.

230
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,840
And it's driven by the
electrification of the world,

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00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,600
which is also driven by the
decarbonization of the world.

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The one thing, the one metal
that you can't have a direct

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00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,760
replacement for is copper for
the transmission of electricity.

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So you got to get more copper.
So it's going to be big

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00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,040
companies that are that are
focused on copper production,

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00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,320
which is why BHP, for example,
are really focused on the

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00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,640
development of copper worldwide.
And, and Osmine assists in that

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00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,280
by by running the copper to the
World Conference in Adelaide

239
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,360
every year.
And we're going to have a lot of

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00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,640
copper discussions at GRX as
well in, in May.

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00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,160
But the smaller operators are
moving down to all sorts of

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00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:16,840
systems.
And it's not just automation.

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00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,360
There's a couple of really
interesting smaller up, smaller

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00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,720
operators that I know of in, in
SA that are actually using in

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00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,560
situ leaching of copper as
potentially the way forward.

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00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,080
What that means is you really
don't put people in harm's way.

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00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,360
You drill down to the ore body,
you put in a Lexi vent, and then

248
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,040
you pump the resultant material
out and put it through a a

249
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,800
normal processing circuit
circuit to produce the ultimate

250
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,400
metal that you're after.
Yeah, same as the.

251
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:45,280
It's the copper equivalent of
uranium, correct?

252
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,440
Effectively, that's exactly.
Right.

253
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,480
I'm, I'm keen to, to press you
on.

254
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,120
I'm keen to press you on that,
Alan.

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00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,240
And here like you, you sort of
said it's coming super, super

256
00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,200
quick.
Have you got a sort of time

257
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,600
frame in mind?
Are we talking within the next

258
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,800
10 years?
We could see these dark style

259
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,360
mines where you really don't
need people running around.

260
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,760
You can, you can design them
differently.

261
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,720
You know, the, the whole
economics of the mind becomes

262
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,840
different.
Is that something you see before

263
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:18,160
2035 or is it a bit beyond that?
I actually, I actually do see it

264
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,560
before 2035, Jonas.
And the reason for that is it's

265
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,520
going to be driven by the need.
One thing I will say is that

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00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,120
having said all those things
about how wonderful the industry

267
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,160
is, it's quite conservative.
You know, it's one thing to

268
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,600
develop the technology, it's
another thing to adopt it.

269
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,360
And the one criticism I've
always had of in particular the

270
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,800
bigger mining companies of
Australia in, in, in taking on

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00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,200
new technologies, they like to
be first, to be second.

272
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,400
The first thing I'll say to you
is really, really interesting

273
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,680
technology.
Really, really answer really,

274
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,360
really good, good idea who's
using it.

275
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,320
And if the answer is, well, you
know, we need to get somebody

276
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,080
here to use it.
Oh, come back and see us when

277
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,840
you've got half a dozen
companies using it and we'll

278
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,440
talk to you.
So they like to be first, to be

279
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:01,880
second.
So the adoption of the

280
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,600
technology in Australia is
somewhat challenging from time

281
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,800
to time.
Other nations take it up a lot

282
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,240
quicker, but I think these
things are going to actually

283
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,800
accelerate really quickly.
So if I can use an example,

284
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:18,240
Osman also ran a an event in
Newcastle about about a month

285
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,360
ago.
Six weeks ago it was the

286
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,000
Innovation Roadshow and there
was about 280 people attending

287
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:30,320
and we had about 40 small to
medium Mets companies presenting

288
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,720
what they were talking about.
A year ago at the equivalent

289
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:40,800
event, not one company talked
about AI, not one At this event.

290
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,400
I would say 30% of the people
who presented at that Innovation

291
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:53,080
Roadshow, AI and the adoption of
AI and how AI was going to

292
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:58,200
improve what they were doing.
So I, you know, I think if, if

293
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,240
that's an indicator, it says to
me that the take up of new

294
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,920
technologies by industry is
actually going to accelerate and

295
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,480
therefore the sorts of things
we're talking about might be

296
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,200
start to become apparent
certainly by 2035.

297
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,960
These humanoid, these robots,
like God, if I was bar Minko or

298
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,080
burn cut for underground mining,
I'll be looking at them ASAP and

299
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,680
like, because I just think on
the back of what you said and

300
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,840
I've watched that same video you
watched in China.

301
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:28,520
It's it's phenomenal like
because what they could provide

302
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,480
the underground mining industry
mostly for your replace, you

303
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,320
train them to throw the bolts
for the jumbo.

304
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,600
You don't have the you throw out
all the procedures of stop and

305
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,720
drill them while the person's
out there.

306
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,400
You you can send them down in
the smoke to water down headings

307
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,280
like you can do and make the
mine actually a lot safer.

308
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,760
Like is is this getting talked
about for underground yet?

309
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,800
Because it should.
It's not getting talked about

310
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,960
for Underground yet, but what is
getting talked about is in

311
00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,800
particular within Osman, what
are the adjacent industries that

312
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,560
have got technologies that we
might be interested in and the

313
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,520
the humanoid robot, you know,
not to put two point too fine a

314
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,480
point on it, humanoid robots are
of great interest to the

315
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,520
military.
So the military have actually

316
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,599
developed these technologies,
particularly in places like the

317
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,560
US and Europe and China
basically.

318
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:24,280
So the, the sophistication of
the, of the, the tool is quite

319
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,640
well advanced in some of those
adjacent industries.

320
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,720
So one of the things that Osman
is looking at now is how do we

321
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,000
work with adjacent industry
sectors to bring those ideas

322
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,000
into the mining industry?
But it's not that we've got to

323
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,400
invent it.
It's what we've got to do is

324
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,600
adapt it to the, our, our
circumstances and our conditions

325
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,040
to give us the improvement we're
after.

326
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,440
So, you know, I, I don't see it
as being a challenge to bring

327
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,960
those into, into reality in a
relatively short time frame.

328
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,320
What's a relatively short time
frame?

329
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:54,680
I have no idea.
But I'm watching those videos

330
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,000
and I'm watching the way, I
mean, I'm amazed at the

331
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,840
flexibility of these
technologies and the way that

332
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,640
they are doing things in other,
other industry sectors.

333
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,360
Do do you worry as well to, to
dive into the geopolitics a bit

334
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:13,160
more like China has raced ahead
in, in the processing in

335
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,840
particular?
Do you, do you have any concerns

336
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,760
that they they race ahead and
they pull in their economics and

337
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,960
they get even better and, and
cheaper and more effective at

338
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,920
mining across the board because
they are clearly or have been

339
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,680
clearly over the past 10 years
better in innovation in, in

340
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:30,240
parts.
Oh yeah.

341
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,640
I think you're, I think you're
absolutely right.

342
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,880
I mean, the one thing to make,
you know, in one of my one of my

343
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,320
previous lives, I spent quite a
bit of time in China and

344
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,160
everything, particularly in the
mining sector, maybe not the

345
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,840
coal sector, but certainly in,
in a lot of the other Hard Rock

346
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,920
sectors.
It was, I would say

347
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,080
technologically behind the
Western world in, in what they

348
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,360
were doing.
That's no longer the case.

349
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:56,800
They are certainly innovators in
their own right.

350
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,280
They've developed a whole lot of
new technologies, a whole lot of

351
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:00,800
products.
And you've seen some of them in

352
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,080
the Western mining operations
already.

353
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,320
We're going to see more and
more.

354
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,960
So I think the Chinese really
are going to be quite a

355
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,800
formidable force in terms of
mining technologies that can be

356
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,400
used not only in China.
And China is really a big

357
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,080
unknown in terms of a lot of
materials that are yet to be

358
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,040
discovered in China from a
mining perspective.

359
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,160
But I think we're going to see
more and more of their products

360
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,560
evolve into suitable solutions
to the mining industry

361
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,160
worldwide, including in
Australia.

362
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,240
So we'll see them.
We'll see it turn up here,

363
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,320
there's no doubt.
And it's already turning up in

364
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,600
places like South America.
Do you think there's like new

365
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,960
wave of tech and automation and
AI gives Australia maybe a

366
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:49,600
chance to approach places like
China on cost of operations if

367
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,360
we can, as you said, having less
people, better tech doing things

368
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,760
quicker like and it sort of
takes away that cost of labour

369
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,120
differential.
Is there a chance?

370
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,760
Yeah, I, I, I don't know.
I mean, you know, we're talking

371
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,560
about the most populous nation
on earth or second most populous

372
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,680
nation on earth.
Now I think India has overtaken

373
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,000
it in terms of population.
So labour and labour cost in in

374
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,080
China is not a not as big an
issue as it is here.

375
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,280
I mean, one of the, one of the
things that I always recall from

376
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,160
when, when the autonomous fleet
was introduced into WA, it was

377
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,800
replacing a person driving the
truck that was probably getting

378
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,600
paid 200 + 1000 dollars.
You don't, you don't pay anybody

379
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,440
in China at that level.
So I don't think the labour cost

380
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,440
or the utilization of labour is
such a big, big deal in China.

381
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,320
I think the thing that drives
the innovation of solutions and

382
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,360
technology in China is finding
better ways to do it.

383
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:48,080
Not the cost, but just a better
way of actually doing it, a

384
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,480
better way of getting the
outcome, and a more more

385
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,040
technologically superior outcome
is what they're aiming for.

386
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,400
With let's go to give open pit a
bit of love.

387
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,400
I've watched many videos on like
the Rio Tinto's automation set

388
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:09,920
up with between the the assaying
the, the trains like the and the

389
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,480
blending.
Like it's a phenomenal operation

390
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,120
in what they're and hence why
BHP and Rio's cost of production

391
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:19,760
for their own ore is just miles
ahead of everyone in in

392
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,480
Australia.
What is there much more big

393
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,800
ticket items on the way to
optimize bulk open pit haulage

394
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,960
in inor in Australia?
What are the big ticket items

395
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:37,040
out there at the moment?
Or are they?

396
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,680
Are they pretty close to as
optimized as they're going to

397
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,480
get?
I think that I think they've

398
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,840
reached a certain point of of
equilibrium.

399
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,440
I think they're not.
There's probably going to be

400
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,600
improvements made in in, you
know, in the way in which the

401
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,760
ore is dewatered and moved in
the first instance.

402
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,920
But you know, if you, if you
look at what they've done in

403
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,880
this last 15 years, the
automation of the surface fleet,

404
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:04,160
the automation of trains, the
automation of drilling around

405
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,880
the bench, you know, all those
things are already being done.

406
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,080
And, and you know, the drills
now do on board analytical

407
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:14,560
determination and in some cases
strength determination of the,

408
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,440
of, of the rock that they're
drilling through.

409
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,040
So it's, it's actually pretty
advanced.

410
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,680
So you've got to say, well, what
else?

411
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,480
What do we do next?
I'm sure there's a shopping list

412
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,720
that, you know, the people
inside the machine would say,

413
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,120
you know, this is what I'd like
to do.

414
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,160
But I, I think we've reached a,
a, you know, a fairly

415
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,240
significant point already in, in
bulk mining, in, in iron ore.

416
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:33,560
Yeah.
And that and look, they have the

417
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,960
advantage of the capital.
They can end the scale 'cause

418
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,920
they can set up control centres
in Perth like they got at the

419
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,040
airport and BHPS in the city.
Whereas how, how do you think

420
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,400
all that is the next step?
Obviously getting their level of

421
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,640
automation and tech translated
into smaller open pit operations

422
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,920
and cost of capital not being
such a burden to make that

423
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,200
happen.
Yes, I think it is.

424
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,440
And, and there's a very, there's
quite a large number of mining

425
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,920
operators in Australia that are
smaller operators and overseas

426
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,200
that are smaller operators that
want to do exactly what those

427
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,320
big mining operations have done.
And have, you know, operating

428
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,520
centres outside of the mine
itself controlling what's going

429
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,400
on in the mine.
And it, it in fact there's,

430
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,000
there's quite a number of copper
miners in Australia that are

431
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,280
looking at setting up those
centres within their own

432
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,880
facilities at the moment.
And I remember when we were

433
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,480
working, and we continue to work
as Australia very closely with

434
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,360
other countries through the OS
mine network.

435
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,320
It's one of the things that we
did get asked quite often in

436
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,800
South America, how do we put in
place, you know, an operation

437
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,440
centre to make sure that we can
improve the efficiency of our

438
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,800
small to medium operation rather
than a great big operation.

439
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,640
And you know, I think there's
these companies in Australia in

440
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,680
the Mets network that actually
know how to do that.

441
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,360
And I think that's a great
advantage.

442
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,480
One of the great things about
Osman is that we've got an

443
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,360
international network like no
other nation on earth, you know,

444
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,600
out the way in which the
Australian met sector has

445
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,840
developed relationships with the
global mining industry, I think

446
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,160
is the envy of other mining
nations.

447
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,480
So I, you know, that's a long
winded way of saying when one of

448
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,640
those miners in Bolivia wants to
find an answer, they ask, you

449
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,320
know, can Australia provide this
answer?

450
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,480
Which is a really good thing, a
really good position for us to

451
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,720
be in.
And so which tech companies are

452
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,600
sort of leading the pack in that
sort of things, open pit

453
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:31,360
automation on smaller scales?
Well, you know, it depends on,

454
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,320
on which particular part of the
spectrum you're, you're looking

455
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,760
at, you know, you're talking
about material movement or

456
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:41,200
you're talking about, you know,
AI, the adoption of AI.

457
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,160
There's about probably about 60
companies now that are members

458
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,920
of the of the OS mine network
that can provide part of an AI

459
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:54,000
product improvement program from
a for an operational perspective

460
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,880
at all of those operations,
whether they be be big or small.

461
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,440
So there's a huge list of
companies that can do that and

462
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,920
you know, be wrong to sort of
pick two or three.

463
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,120
I reckon that there's just
depending on the challenge,

464
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,640
depending on what they're after,
there's any number of Australian

465
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,120
companies that can provide those
answers.

466
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,240
Don't lose sight of the fact
that what I said before about

467
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,760
that innovation workshop, things
have moved so quickly in the

468
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,520
last 12 months that there are
more and more companies being

469
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,640
able to provide those solutions
now than there were one or two

470
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,560
years ago.
And in particular, just to

471
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:31,040
digress, I think back some,
let's say five years ago, the

472
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,920
use of data analytics in mining
wasn't something that was on

473
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,560
everybody's lips.
Now it is one of the critics,

474
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,160
one of my criticisms of the of
the Australian industry is I

475
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:45,200
don't think we've been fast
enough in adopting the use of

476
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,520
data analytics to optimize our
processes and and not the wise

477
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,400
optimize the way we recover our
our mined products.

478
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,600
We haven't been as fast as some
other industry sectors and maybe

479
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,960
we haven't been as fast as some
other mining industries around

480
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,840
the world.
So, you know, expanding the use

481
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,680
of data analytics is something
that I think is going to happen

482
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,120
and it hopefully will happen a
lot faster than it has

483
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:08,840
previously, so.
Do you, do you still hold that

484
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,520
criticism or is that sort of
passed on a bit?

485
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,840
I do still hold that criticism.
Yeah.

486
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:19,200
I I think there's, there's
always, you know, back to my

487
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:20,920
comment about being first to be
second.

488
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,880
You know, it's a bit like when
you go and talk to people and

489
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,360
go, what, what are you doing
about collecting data and

490
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:30,160
analyzing that data
automatically for the operation

491
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,400
of your processing plant?
And the answer is, well, you

492
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,680
know, we, we produce some
spreadsheets and we look at

493
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,960
those occasionally.
I, I visited 1 mine site that

494
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,280
said we put a lot of information
into a spreadsheet and we look

495
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,040
at it every three weeks.
Well, you know, these places in

496
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,800
the world that look at that
information every 3 seconds, not

497
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,240
every three weeks.
So if you want to optimize the

498
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,800
performance of your business,
you really do need to be a bit

499
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,280
more, if you like, aware of the
way in which you can get

500
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,440
improvements a lot quicker.
So I still have that criticism,

501
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,280
yes.
When you think about the sort of

502
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,720
innovation that you've seen over
the past few decades, if we

503
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,680
break it out into like the, the
major mining houses, the the

504
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,800
Rios and BHBS of the world, the
established Mets companies, Orca

505
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,200
Index and the and the like or
just start-ups that spring up.

506
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,720
Who are the ones that drive the
the bulk of the innovation or is

507
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,640
it relatively spread?
I think there's two parts to

508
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,520
your answer.
I think the Mets industry itself

509
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,440
is probably the the really heavy
driver of innovation that goes

510
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,920
from those developers of the
solutions into the industry.

511
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,640
In other words, they think about
the problem that the industry

512
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,920
might be having that or a
company may have or a mine might

513
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,560
have, and they look at a way to
fix the problem and they come up

514
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,280
with a solution and the solution
is inevitably a commercial

515
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:50,920
solution.
So they take the commercial

516
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,880
solution to the mining company
and say, look, we've got a way

517
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,480
of fixing a problem.
So the, the answer to your

518
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,120
question in that instance is
it's being developed by the by

519
00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:02,560
the innovative X companies
themselves.

520
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,480
They get the answer and take it
to the industry.

521
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,040
The other part of the answer is
that in a, in a, in the true

522
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,040
sense of cooperation, the
companies that you mentioned,

523
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:18,520
Rio Tinto, BHP and other large
mining companies, they have

524
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,040
developed a process where they
put together a group of people

525
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,800
that say, well, here are our
problems in our business.

526
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,480
How do we bring partners into
the tent on that to solve those

527
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,160
problems?
How do we get innovation in our

528
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,320
operations to make them better
than they were?

529
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,600
For example, and again I'll use
a Chilean example when Kudelka

530
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,160
were looking at the way to
improve the efficiency of the

531
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,640
recover recovery from the, the
heap leach operations.

532
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,040
And you know heap leach, you
know how you build a heap out of

533
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,000
the out of the ore, you put
sulfuric acid on the top of it.

534
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,480
You produce a leachate which is
you know, copper sulfate and

535
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,640
then you put the copper sulfate
solution through a SXCW plant or

536
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,360
something similar.
They would typically get

537
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:14,080
typically get 9394% recovery.
So what they did is said, well,

538
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,280
that wasn't that's not good
enough.

539
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,560
We need to get better recovery.
And I looked at the way in which

540
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:25,000
they could use naturally
occurring microbes that occur

541
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,280
within the ore body and develop
a bio leaching process that was

542
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,600
actually really, really robust.
So in order to do that, I got

543
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,840
hold of one of the world's best
biotechnology companies, which

544
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,840
just happened to be Japanese,
not Australian, but that's at

545
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,400
least it was a company that had
a solution and they formed the

546
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,400
joint venture to look at the way
in which they can introduce a

547
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,720
bio leaching technology that
would improve the way that they

548
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,440
could recover copper in heat
bleach.

549
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,960
They actually developed microbes
that could operate at PH1, which

550
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,440
is pretty cool and they got
their recovery up to 98% plus

551
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,240
out of the same heap.
Now that technology was

552
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,480
developed in cooperation between
the miner and the technology

553
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:08,880
provider.
That's how they got to the

554
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,960
solution.
And that if I can roll forward,

555
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,040
is now a company that Rio Tinto
have just launched, which is

556
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,720
actually a bio leaching company.
And they've done exactly the

557
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,160
same thing.
They've they've formed the

558
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,920
relationship with a company that
could provide a solution.

559
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,400
They formed a bio leaching
company and that's now going out

560
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,640
into the industry.
So the second way of doing it is

561
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,160
for the bigger mining houses and
large and medium sized mining

562
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,760
houses to form cooperative
relationships with the Mets

563
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,960
companies that might be able to
provide solutions and work on

564
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,240
the problem jointly to come up
with an answer.

565
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,480
Do you think automation in
automation and technology in

566
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,000
processing is probably the one
that's not talked about enough

567
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,200
that, but the one that could
actually provide the most

568
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,000
tangible benefits to an
operation?

569
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,000
Like talking about what you just
mentioned there, like the talks

570
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,800
about in situ recovery of
minerals other than uranium,

571
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,840
like that's it's sort of a bit
of a quantum shift in thinking,

572
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,560
but is that the sort of stuff
that's really going to be game

573
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,080
changes?
Without a doubt.

574
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,240
And I agree with you.
I think I think we've actually

575
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,680
as a as an industry, I think
we've spent a lot of time on you

576
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,120
know finding it and digging it
out and not an equivalent amount

577
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,880
of time on how do we get it out
of the ore and get it into the

578
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,520
hands of the customer.
So the processing side of things

579
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,960
is an area where there has been
a lot of focus.

580
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,880
And if you look at, you know, I,
I think we should be very proud

581
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,720
of the fact that in Australia
we've got the CSIRO and the

582
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:42,680
CSIRO have got a, a mineral
sector group who work with the

583
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,720
industry on looking at ways, in
particular on identifying ways

584
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,200
to get better recovery out of
the ore, IE through processing.

585
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,560
And that's both from the point
of view of processing the ore

586
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,080
and also analysing the OR and
saying, well, you know, we've

587
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,920
now analysed it or this is a way
to analyse it and we know how to

588
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:02,160
go about getting it out.
And you've only got to look at

589
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,520
some of the stuff that they've
actually done, which, you know,

590
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,560
is, is revolutionary.
I mean, there's one Australian

591
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,200
Mets company that licensed some,
some technology from the CSIRO

592
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,000
to automate the golden gold
analysis technology and replace

593
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,400
what is effectively the
traditional way of, of analysing

594
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,560
for gold, which is, you know,
through a, through a

595
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,800
metallurgical process using
platinum crucibles.

596
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,680
That particular technology is
now being adopted by, you know,

597
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,160
a lot of gold companies around
the world.

598
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,880
It was developed by the CSI,
originally licensed by Mintz

599
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,560
company and they're taking that
that technology to the world.

600
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,240
So there's, there's definitely
areas where people are doing it,

601
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,520
but there's still a lot of
scope.

602
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,240
And I remember some work that
was being done again in the Rio

603
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,880
Tinto era when they were working
in this area, they were using

604
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:02,160
microwaves as a way of producing
micro cracking in the ore that

605
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,360
they were, that they were
mining.

606
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,800
So they'd, they'd mine the ore,
the copper ore with a maybe A50

607
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,200
millimetre top size, 50 or 60
millimetre top size.

608
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,840
And they put that through a
very, very, very sophisticated

609
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:22,360
microwave environment.
And the microwaves naturally, as

610
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,800
you know, if you put a plate in
the in the microwave that's got

611
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,680
a gold rim on it, you get sparks
everywhere.

612
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,800
Microwaves heat up metals
quicker than they heat up

613
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,360
anything else.
So if there's any concentration

614
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,080
of metal in that 50 millimetre
top sized rock, it heats up

615
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,920
really, really quickly and then
cracks the rock.

616
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,960
And that's important because it
does two things that allows you

617
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,480
to differentiate the ore that's
got a lot of metal in it versus

618
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,160
ore that's not got a lot of
metal in it.

619
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,920
And you use, you know, heat
sensing tomography that says

620
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,080
there's the good stuff, there's
the not so good stuff.

621
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,200
So you can immediately automate
it on all, all sorting program

622
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,760
ahead of where you were before.
But because you've micro cracked

623
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:07,520
the unit of, of, of ore by using
microwaves, you use less energy

624
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,280
then to break it down to its
next size.

625
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,159
So when you put it in the rod
mill or the OR the ball mill,

626
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,719
you actually use a lot less
energy to break it down.

627
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,040
So there's a, there's another
example of, you know,

628
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,560
technological introduction of
ideas into the processing side

629
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,040
of life to improve the
efficiency of recovery.

630
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,520
Oh, you've seen what the
difference between operations

631
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:36,480
that have to grind to 120 Micron
compared to grinding to 75

632
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,080
Micron.
Like the the incremental money

633
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,520
that you save on power is huge.
It is that's just from a

634
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,600
metallurgy side.
But if you introduce other stuff

635
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:49,520
to help with it, you soon make
the cash back like underground

636
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,440
is.
You know, I might be a bit harsh

637
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,440
on underground sometimes in
terms of innovation.

638
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,920
It's just like, yes, it is the
same processes as we've already

639
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,000
done, but like look awesome
advancements in like

640
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,080
underground, like telly remote
bogging over since I started

641
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,440
like control and five boggers at
once like that, that's

642
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:12,520
unbelievable what I can do now.
A lot of automated production

643
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,000
drilling on rigs from upstairs
and everything.

644
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,400
So there, there has been a lot
of technological advancements.

645
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,520
It's just such a custom
environment to try and apply it

646
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,080
in on small scales.
But we're I guess we're in

647
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,840
underground mining as you said,
it's the future of mining.

648
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,880
Where do you say a lot of work
being directed towards at the

649
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:41,960
moment?
Need to get the truck Trucks

650
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,160
automated.
That's the big one, if you can

651
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,360
automate a truck.
Yeah, you do.

652
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,000
You need to get the trucks
automated, but I think also in

653
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,040
in, you know, is there a better
way of of driving, of driving

654
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,120
headings?
You know, I mean, jumbos are

655
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,520
nice and we all love automated
jumbos, they're great.

656
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,120
But is there a better way of
doing that?

657
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:03,760
And you know, I've always been,
I've always been interested in

658
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,080
one of the, one of the
industries.

659
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,200
What's, what does the industry
think about, you know, driving a

660
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,200
heading?
And do we stick with, you know,

661
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,880
jumbos for driving roadways and,
and you know, all, all the other

662
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,360
areas where we use a jumbo, do
we use, do we use jumbos

663
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:17,920
forever?
And I, and I don't think the

664
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,000
answer is there.
You know, I think there's all

665
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,760
sorts of new cutting
technologies that are being

666
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,640
developed and introduced and I
think that there that's probably

667
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,280
an area where we're going to see
some substantial improvements

668
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,800
over the next 10 years.
You know, I've seen some pretty

669
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,720
interesting equipment that's
been developed by some of the

670
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,120
some of the companies that are
well known to the industry and

671
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,400
some of the innovative solutions
that they've come up with yet to

672
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,400
be proven and yet to be
commercialized.

673
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,200
But they've certainly got, you
know, high prospect of being

674
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,040
adopted as they go forward.
I mean, there's one thing

675
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,800
though, as I said at the start
of all this, you know, if you

676
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,800
come up with a bit of mousetrap,
you've got to find somebody who

677
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,720
wants to use a bit of mousetrap.
So that's always going to be a

678
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:00,280
challenge.
You know, is this more

679
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,680
efficient, more effective and
safer to operate than a jumbo?

680
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,240
And if the answer to all those
questions is yes, then it'll

681
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:08,640
find a place really quick.
So I think driveage is a big

682
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,320
deal.
And I and it could it could be

683
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,280
like a two start step prize.
I know they've done the they did

684
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,840
the trial.
I think it was a Hill Groves

685
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,080
keen man too.
I think it's pronounced they did

686
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,920
the that it sort of yeah, the IT
was like a like a road editor

687
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,080
continuous miner for the portal.
I know they trailed it there and

688
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,000
look in underground Hard Rock.
It might be the simple as like

689
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,920
some pre cracking mechanism to
make it easier to do that.

690
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,760
But just something that
mitigates, like Can you imagine

691
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,200
mitigating blast fumes as
frequently so you don't have

692
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,360
shift handovers re entries and
like you're actually

693
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,600
continuously mining instead of
blasting.

694
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,840
You probably won't get away with
it on production, but I'll tell

695
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,840
you what you're saying.
It's like it's such a, it's

696
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,720
probably going to take a while.
But once that gets cracked and

697
00:37:55,720 --> 00:38:01,240
you can get a similar advance
per shift as a jumbo without

698
00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:05,240
having to exit the mine for
blasting as frequently, Yeah.

699
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:06,600
Yeah, I think, I think that's
right.

700
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,360
I mean, I, I, I can recall being
underground at again, back to

701
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,960
Chile, back to alternate entry,
which is the world, as I said,

702
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,360
the world's largest underground
mine.

703
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,800
This is a very deep mine.
And they have, and you'd be

704
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,160
familiar with, with, with Daddy,
they have rock bursts, right?

705
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,160
And rock bursts are very
dangerous and they kill people.

706
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,240
I don't miss them flying at me
face.

707
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,880
I had them at one or two joints.
So you got to find a way to

708
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,240
mitigate that.
And the way that they mitigated

709
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:37,800
that particular situation was to
use directional long hole

710
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,400
drilling ahead of the face.
So they drill out in into the

711
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,240
into the ore body head of the
face and had two effects.

712
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:46,720
Frankly, from an exploration
perspective, it's pretty

713
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:49,000
interesting.
But what it did, it allowed some

714
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,800
stress relief of the ore body.
So they would reduce the risk of

715
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,960
rock burst, but it also allowed
the the ability to apply some,

716
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,240
you know, unique rock breaking
technologies.

717
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:03,920
And here's a number, not just,
you know, not just sort of

718
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,640
drilling things, water down, do
it hydraulically.

719
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,360
There's now an electromagnetic,
I think it's magnetic anyway,

720
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,520
there's an electronic technology
of being able to get a rock

721
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,640
burst, sorry, a rock breaking
technology ahead of the face.

722
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:19,920
If you can do that, that will
improve the ability then to cut

723
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,600
faster in those Dr. edges, which
basically says you can use some

724
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:28,560
of these more, you know, Rotary
methods rather than, you know, a

725
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,440
jumbo.
But they all get paid 2 1/2

726
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,160
thousand bucks a shift now on
the jumbo.

727
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,640
So if they can remove that,
you're going to save a fortune.

728
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,080
Don't say that too loud, you
won't get too.

729
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,440
Many no, I'm not on it anymore
so I don't care.

730
00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:47,960
If if we, if we stay on the the
capital side of things and look

731
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:52,000
specifically at the, the, the
juniors, do you think that's the

732
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,080
that is the, the start-ups
trying to make these

733
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,960
innovations?
Alan, is there like a deep

734
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,160
enough capital markets?
Is there a lot of risk capital?

735
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,240
Because Aussies don't have a
problem punting on an

736
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:07,280
exploration stock but it.
It doesn't carry the the same

737
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,280
sort of appeal for the the Mets
plays.

738
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,360
How do you see the sort of level
of sophistication in the in the

739
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,920
capital market side of things?
Yeah, that's a really good

740
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,640
question.
And and you know, I'll give you

741
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,040
an answer in three parts this
time.

742
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,160
The first, first observation is
that, you know, we're one of,

743
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,920
we're one of two or three
markets in the world that

744
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,960
actually understand mining.
So you know, the capital markets

745
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,360
in Australia, the capital
markets in in Canada, and to a

746
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,240
lesser degree the capital
markets in in London understand

747
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:38,240
mining because they've been at
it for quite some time.

748
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:44,040
As somebody who, you know,
chairs a number of junior mining

749
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,400
companies, I can tell you that
the capital markets have been

750
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,560
tough the last four years.
Trying to raise capital for a

751
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,320
junior miner is really
challenging and it's been

752
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,680
challenging for you for four
years and I'm not sure that it's

753
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,960
improved much in the last 12
months.

754
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,480
You've also got to be very
careful with the material that

755
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,240
you're trying to raise capital
for.

756
00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:08,720
You can raise capital at the
moment for for gold for the

757
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:12,560
obvious reason, and you can
raise capital for copper, again

758
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,280
for the obvious reason.
If you've got something that's

759
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,920
not in those two areas, then
you're going to find it

760
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,760
challenging.
So the first part of the answer

761
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,920
is, you know, the capital
markets have been not as

762
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,560
exciting as they should be for
the juniors over this last four

763
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,560
years.
Let's hope it improves and when

764
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,000
we start to look at the
development of critical minerals

765
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,280
in Australia, if the capital
market doesn't understand the

766
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:43,360
difference between gold and, I
don't know, pick something zinc,

767
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:45,880
it ain't going to be able to
understand the difference

768
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,720
between gold and something in
the critical mineral space.

769
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:51,800
In other words, it's going to be
even more challenging to raise

770
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,960
capital in terms of the Met
sector.

771
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,520
There's not a large number of
Mets companies, in particular

772
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,120
junior Mets companies who go to
the market and attempt to raise

773
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,040
cash.
Because the IT would be fair to

774
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:09,440
say that in my experience in
Australia, the capital markets

775
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:10,800
don't understand the Mets
sector.

776
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,280
It's a service, it's a service
industry and they've, there's

777
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:14,800
not a great big appetite for
that.

778
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,640
So that's a hard, that's a hard
gig.

779
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,160
There are some that have done it
and some that have been

780
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,760
successful, but it's a
challenging environment.

781
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,240
The other part of the answer is
that there are companies that

782
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:29,360
are specialized investment
companies that, that focus on

783
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,520
the, on the met sector and some
of those are really good and do

784
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,400
a really good job.
There's a, there's a company in,

785
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,960
in West Australia that started
as a private equity investor in

786
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,960
mining and they've now branched
out into putting private equity

787
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,040
capital into start-ups in the
met sector.

788
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,560
And they've been quite
successful at what they've done.

789
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,040
And they've got a bigger
appetite and it's got bigger and

790
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:52,120
bigger.
And there's a number of other

791
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,320
companies that are now looking
at the exactly the same model.

792
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,760
So the answer is not obvious.
You know, if you've got a

793
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,080
really, really smart company and
a smart group of executives that

794
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,720
can get it on the market and
grab hold of the, the capital

795
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:10,920
market investors and they, I
understand it, then you'll get

796
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,160
it away.
If not, you won't and it'll be

797
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,480
even more challenging.
What, what sort of incentives do

798
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,320
you think companies are going to
need to adopt new technology

799
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:26,080
that will may come at the cost
of reduced production for an

800
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,840
interim, interim period?
Because number one bloody

801
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,880
priority for all these companies
usually is share price.

802
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,040
But they that's why everyone
sticks to the norm because you

803
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,880
can, you can forward look what
you're going to get.

804
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,280
You can predict it easier even
though they still miss it

805
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,080
anyway.
But what is it going to be

806
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,440
Government funding or or
something to incentivize give a

807
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,480
new tech a crack but.
You know, I don't think

808
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:55,640
government funding is the
answer.

809
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,680
I think government already fund
the development of new mining

810
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,960
technologies in in various ways.
They do it through the CSIRO for

811
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,080
example.
And I think we should be, I, I

812
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,280
mention that again because we
should be very proud of the fact

813
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,520
that the CSIRO do what they do
in, in, in mining and mining

814
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,120
technology solution development
in Australia.

815
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:17,360
They also do it, by the way,
there's a CSIRO operation in

816
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,280
Chile, in Santiago.
So we worked, you know, we work

817
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,160
on adopting and adapting those
technologies and that sort of

818
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:25,520
thing.
So government funding of

819
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,240
technologies is, is small, but
you know, it's there.

820
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,400
Will they increase?
I doubt it.

821
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:36,640
Over the years they've been a
couple of of government

822
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,000
initiatives designed to
stimulate the development of the

823
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,680
Met sector.
Probably 15 years ago, the, the,

824
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,880
I think in the Howard
government, they put in place a

825
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,000
thing called the Mining Services
Action Agenda, which is where

826
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:55,960
they put government money into a
group of people who developed

827
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,480
ways in which they could
stimulate the development of the

828
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,320
mining services sector.
And the outcome of that was, was

829
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,000
quite successful.
In fact, that was the forerunner

830
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,520
of getting quite a lot more
momentum behind Aust Mine and,

831
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,520
and that was a great, that was a
great success.

832
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,640
More recently there's been Mets
ignited.

833
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,960
Mets ignited again was the
beneficiary of investment by the

834
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,920
government in creating a centre
that that could stimulate the

835
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:25,320
growth of and the development of
and growth of innovative mining

836
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,800
technologies.
And again, that was quite

837
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,280
successful.
Will this government, whatever

838
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,800
that government is, do the same
thing?

839
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,560
I doubt it.
I really do.

840
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,480
You know, I, I have AI have a
view that there's probably not

841
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,080
enough of focus on mining in
general in the political sense.

842
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,400
So to then stick their neck out
and money into things like

843
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,960
mining services sector is
something that won't happen.

844
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,560
So the only other way to do it
is to grow understanding by the

845
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,560
folks that are already there,
like those private equity

846
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,920
companies I just mentioned.
And there are a number of them

847
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,520
that have been unhappy with
outcomes that they've they've

848
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,080
got from investing in mining
technology startups and helping

849
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,880
them get to a commercial level
where they then moved on to

850
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,720
another owner and they've made
their money on their way

851
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:13,600
through.
And there's a number of those

852
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,840
examples where people have gone.
You know what, this is a really

853
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,240
interesting sector.
We need to get in there and do

854
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:20,240
more with it.
So it's really in the latter

855
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:25,920
sector that I see in the future
or more enthusiastic investment

856
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,640
in start up in the technology
sectors.

857
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,000
One last area I wanted to to
chat to you about Alan that I I

858
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:37,680
find quite interesting is the,
the consequences on on humans

859
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,960
unemployment on jobs in the
industry.

860
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,120
And it's kind of two fold
because we talked a lot about

861
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:47,640
automation and that obviously
has implications of less people

862
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,720
may be needed in future.
But at the same time, if you you

863
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:54,040
speak to a lot of people in the
industry, there's a, there's a

864
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,200
dearth of talent coming through
and you see that reflected in in

865
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,240
uni's with less and less mining
courses and less and less people

866
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,960
coming through.
So how do you think about the

867
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,360
actual, you know, human role in,
in the future of mining?

868
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,320
Do we have enough people?
Are you as concerned about this

869
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,960
as others, or have you got a bit
of a different perspective on

870
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,920
it?
Well, you're, it's a really

871
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,640
interesting question and it is,
it is almost the elephant in the

872
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,720
room.
So if I, if I take the second

873
00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:23,160
part of that question 1st and,
and that is getting people

874
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,600
interested in mining who want to
go to university and do a mining

875
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,680
related course like mining
engineering or geology and so

876
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:32,880
forth is becoming more and more
challenging.

877
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,640
The University of Wollongong
have just closed their mining

878
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,920
school and that's a huge, that's
a huge loss.

879
00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:40,800
Yeah.
That was one of the most

880
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,680
innovative mining schools
probably in the world in the

881
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,200
area of, of coal mining.
And it's closed, it's gone.

882
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,920
The University of NSW have a
mining school, but it's a, it's

883
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,360
a shadow of its former self.
And I think in reality, the

884
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,720
people that are doing mining
engineering there are now part

885
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,720
of another faculty.
It's, you know, it's a, it's a

886
00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:03,640
mining engineering stream, but
it's part of another faculty.

887
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,960
The problem is, as you rightly
say, making, making that

888
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:09,800
attractive to people who want to
go into it.

889
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,320
So on the one hand, it's
challenging because, you know,

890
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,640
you got to say what happens when
all the mining engineers and

891
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,360
geologists retire?
There won't be any and we, we

892
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,960
won't have anybody to, you know,
come and tell us what to do.

893
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:27,560
On the other hand, because
technology is technology, people

894
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,000
who want to work in the
automation and data analytics

895
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:32,680
and so forth, they're really
interested in it.

896
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,440
You know, you don't employ a
geologist in a data analytics

897
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,960
environment.
You employed a data scientist.

898
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,600
So they're doing mathematics at
university and they become

899
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,520
really proficient data
scientists.

900
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,560
They can adapt themselves to the
mining environment by looking at

901
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,440
the data that they need.
The same thing with, you know,

902
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,320
automation and the stuff that we
talked about many in terms of

903
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:59,040
robotics, you know, robotics is
a, is a course at university

904
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,520
now.
We're very, very is very, very

905
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,280
attractive and a lot of people
are doing it.

906
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,120
So on the one hand, we've got a
problem because we're not

907
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,320
generating geos and mining
engineers.

908
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,920
On the other hand, we've got
this really attractive opening

909
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,920
up opportunity where we can
attract people because it's

910
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,800
really cool to go and do data
analytics or, or robotics,

911
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,400
whatever that word is that they
use for, for, you know, robotics

912
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,800
courses.
So it's a, it's a challenge.

913
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,600
I think the first part of the,
the challenge really, Jonas, is

914
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,680
how do we get more people
interested in doing mining

915
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,280
engineering?
Because when the mining

916
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,640
engineers all retire, I think
we've got a problem.

917
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,880
Yeah, probably.
And I think it's might could be

918
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,440
a double if there's not enough
people come through, it could be

919
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,160
a double whammy because yeah, if
all this tech and automation

920
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,280
comes out, like it actually
might promote more mines to be

921
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,720
created because there's a a new
benchmark at what costs you can

922
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,760
operate at hopefully.
Oh, jeez, I'm going out on a win

923
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,520
saying cost to operate are going
to go down in the future.

924
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,360
But like with all this coming
out, if you can have less people

925
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,080
and more efficiency like it
should be cheaper to mine.

926
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,560
Yeah, absolutely.
I agree with you totally.

927
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,160
I might look like a dickhead in
10 years when it's twice the

928
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:13,240
price.
In any case, Maddie, the the pay

929
00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:16,400
for the people that remain in
the industry could go upward.

930
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,560
You know, if they're they're one
of very few people left in the

931
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,040
room.
Yeah, they might have something

932
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:25,000
to look forward to there.
Mate, bro that was awesome mate.

933
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:30,120
I suppose lead up to Brizzy we
we should have done a raffle, a

934
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,360
beer with Broomy.
If you go to the conference,

935
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,320
we'll get a sit down exclusive
couple of schooners with Alan

936
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,280
Broom.
I'll might start that out

937
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:43,000
whether you want it or not.
How many Osman conferences have

938
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,160
you been to now, Alan?
Well, this is the, this is the

939
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,920
20th Osman Conference.
This one we're held, we're

940
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,480
holding in May and and we
started out when we first, when

941
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,400
we did the very first one, we
had a quite a modest number of

942
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,760
members of Osmine and and it
was, it was a relatively small

943
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,160
affair.
We're very, very proud of the

944
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,560
fact that this Osmine conference
is, is being held in conjunction

945
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,160
in partnership between Osmine
and the OS IMN.

946
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:14,520
So we've got a, a really strong
group of people who have put

947
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,400
together the program.
We're looking at getting, you

948
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,040
know, hopefully towards 2000
people attending.

949
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,000
So it's a real benchmark and
we're very proud of the fact

950
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,000
and, and now as a discussion
that we had today, we've got the

951
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:31,040
Minerals Council of Australia as
an integral supporter of this

952
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,760
conference.
So you've got the key industry

953
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:38,360
feel like groups as IMMMCA or
Minerals Council Australia and

954
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,920
Osman all working together
because it's an industry focused

955
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,280
event for and on behalf of
industry.

956
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,720
So I'm very proud of the fact
that, you know, we started 20

957
00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:53,600
years ago and this is, this is
the, this is the anniversary 1.

958
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,120
So it's a it's been a
interesting journey, I can

959
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,840
assure you.
Well, I'd encourage anyone

960
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,920
that's listening if you want to
be part of the other 1999 people

961
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:07,520
that get to go beat Alan himself
at JRX conference Brisbane

962
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:11,360
twenty 22nd of May.
We got exclusive discounts in

963
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,280
the show notes.
But Broomie, I'll even get let

964
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:18,120
you use the discount mate. 190
bucks if you're off if you're a

965
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,920
member MO Ms. the code 160 bucks
off if you're not a member for

966
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,200
MOMNM.
I'll flash it up on the screen.

967
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,440
So.
But based on today's discussion,

968
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:32,680
it sounds like it's gonna be a
frigging fantastic event of what

969
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,440
this the future Dark Mind might
look like.

970
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,120
Yeah.
Well, I, I, I hope that, you

971
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,280
know, those who attend at least
get some validation of the

972
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,680
comments that we've made today.
This is an exciting place to be.

973
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,280
The industry is an exciting
industry to be part of.

974
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,920
And I think GRX will give us the
catalyst of showing people what

975
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,360
that excitement looks like.
So thanks for your thanks for

976
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,480
your support fellas.
And it's thanks for the thanks

977
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,880
for the interesting questions.
Don't worry cheese, I'm thinking

978
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,040
of trying to figure out getting
the kids babysat.

979
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,760
I might have to do a late
attendance of I'll say it's got

980
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,560
me excited, mate.
Thank you very much, mate.

981
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,480
And we we'd love to have you on
again in in future.

982
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,080
And that's a bit of a tech
automation check in.

983
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,680
So we've got your number now.
So you're in trouble.

984
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:18,880
Done.
Thanks guys.

985
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:20,920
Really appreciate it.
Thanks for all the effort.

986
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,760
Thanks mate.
Information contained in this

987
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,520
episode of Money of Mine is of
general nature only and does not

988
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,160
take into account the
objectives, financial situation

989
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:31,200
or needs of any particular
person.

990
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,560
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

991
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,640
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

992
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,320
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.