The Copper Sleeper that Nobody’s Watching (Anthony Kavanagh)

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Travis Ricciardo We've got a bit
of a different episode today,

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don't we?
It is, it is a bit different.

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We've we've coached our good
friend Anthony Cavanagh, Cav as

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as we call him of, of Chester.
I think he runs the Chester

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Opportunities Fund 1 of Cavs.
You know, things he's been

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talking about a fair bit.
In fact, he, he alluded to this

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stock and this company, this
opportunity when we when we

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spoke to him a year ago when we
did our like Fundy predictions.

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This is a a, you know, a copper
junior that Cav he's he's had a

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long history with.
We're going to peel that out.

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Why it's interesting to him, why
he's sort of, you know, why he

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thinks there's a special
situation on hand right now and

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probably just got to get out of
the way.

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Disclaimers upfront, mate.
We own stock in this company,

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which is have all the resources.
Ding, Ding, Ding.

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We're conflicted.
Ignore any of our perspectives

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from that angle, or just just
take that grain of salt.

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But I I think it's super
entertaining for a number of

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reasons.
Kev has wanted to do this

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episode for a long time.
It's a fascinating company.

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As he explains in the whole
story, he got involved quite

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some time ago, but he's just
that's an interesting thinker to

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understand and hear from him.
How we try to sort of create

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value here is both entertaining
and insightful.

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And for that reason, I'm pretty
keen to to share this story on

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the back of obviously the deal
with Sandfire that's come out.

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Yeah, mate, I I totally agree.
Hopefully money mind as you get

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some value.
We invite a bit of feedback on

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this one.
If you've got a a contrary

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perspective to us and Cav, drop
a comment, let us know.

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Let us know why why our view
might be with the wrong view.

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I'm sure it'll come back one way
or another.

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Yeah mate, we've got a new
partner as well, Switch

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Technologies.
I'm very excited to share this.

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Yeah.
Tell me about switch mate.

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Mate Switch, an engineering
company based right in the heart

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of Perth.
They've got 5000 square meters

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in the middle of North Bridge.
There's an old Toyota facility

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there and what they do is really
cool. 25 engineers working in

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the company and they are a bunch
of problem solvers mate.

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So if you are running a process
plant, you're at a mining

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company in one form or another,
and you've got problems you want

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solved, which is the team you
need to get in in touch with.

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So they turn ideas into.
Into solutions, that's it.

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They execute the ideas and I'm
sure there's people at mining

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sites right now that have a
bunch of ideas and they just

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don't have the bandwidth to
execute on them.

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So Switch are the team you need
to get in touch with.

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They've got Mike's details in
the show notes which you can

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check out, but they've also got
a bunch of solutions that

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they've put into the market out
there right now.

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So they had this Wicked project
with Pilbara Minerals.

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They retrofit a CAT78550 ton
dump truck, put this wicked

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hybrid system in there.
So a bunch of.

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Really existing mechanical yeah
truck with with a hybrid hybrid

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retrofits it's.
Really.

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What happening here in Perth
mate?

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Cost savings off the back of it.
And that is that is a big part

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of the message here, mate.
These are cutting edge kind of

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tech where there's a commercial
business case and it saves

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dollar per ton because this is
their expertise, their

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capability.
JD, I thought here's here's

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here's my pitch to switch.
This is to you, Mark.

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I've got some gears myself on
how you might be able to save

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some dollars per ton in your
processing facilities.

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First one, I call this one the
stop running it till it explodes

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alert system.
So you have a little sensor box

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and it warns you when a pump or
a gearbox, it's about to become

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a crime scene instead of being
run proudly into the ground

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because it survives, survived
the last shift.

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That sounds like a problem
Switch can help you with.

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Second one, I don't know if this
ones better.

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I call it the stop over grinding
everything meal whisperer.

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So it's just just a control
overlay system that stops the

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meal from, you know, turning
decent 200 Micron feet into baby

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powder.
Not bad, not bad, I'm sure.

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I'm sure the folks out there at
the mine sites have hundreds of

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these problems.
They're probably better problems

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than economic.
They're probably very real world

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problems mate, and it's a good
thing we've got people like

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Switch solving these problems
for us.

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If you've got an idea, just
e-mail

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mike@switchtechnologies.com.
We will come up with well, that

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will come up with the solution
for your problems to save you

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money.
Go switch.

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Go switch.
All right, let's RIP in.

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We've got a hell of a story to
tell.

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How do we, I don't know how to
intro this story other than to

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say, Kev, through knowing you've
lured us into the appeal of a

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very intriguing South Australian
undeveloped copper stock called

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Havila HIV.
We are in stock in this.

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We are conflicted.
Anything that comes out of here,

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like just assume that that, you
know, we have every incentive

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for the for, for an outcome
higher than where the share

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price is today.
So just count everything we're

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going to say from that
perspective.

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But we bought shares on market
with our own money.

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So hopefully there's some
alignment on that front.

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I don't even know where to begin
here mate, because.

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I actually did check my notes
and I'm like, where did it begin

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for me?
Like it was kind of one of those

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stories as a S Australian and
someone who's caught up in the,

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I guess the man year of copper
and everyone trying to find a

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copper asset to develop.
You kind of look at everything

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that's available, right?
And it turns out the first I

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guess instance that I had with
the company was actually April

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2022.
And it was in kind of the

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madness of it was one of the
lockdowns in Melbourne where a

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lot of people couldn't actually
get out of the state.

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And I was in Adelaide at the
time with my family and UBS had

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organised a, a visit to some
Adelaide companies.

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A lot of them were at the time
you'd say subscale and semi

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economic.
But amongst it, you know, when I

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saw I was minerals and we saw an
aspirin, a few of the other

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larger plays, but in the mix was
Havilah.

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And so at the time it was like a
$60 million company.

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And I remember going out there
and seeing all the optionality

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of the assets and just turning
to a few of the guys going.

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That was really interesting.
But like, it's a $60 million

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company.
Like, what the hell is going on

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here?
And as a family member of mine

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who'd previously mentioned it to
me and I called them up and I'm

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like, what?
What were you telling me about?

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Haven't they like, oh, yeah,
it's my only PA position and I

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think you should really take a
look at it.

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I'm like, oh, look, it's
probably too small for us,

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really subscale.
And on that same day, we saw Oz

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Minerals later in the Arvo.
And Oz Minerals was talking

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about how they've done these
deep dives and all the copper

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assets literally globally, not
just in Australia.

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And I couldn't help but think to
myself, maybe there's something

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in it.
Like the conversation we'd had

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from Havilah needing a big
capital partner to help develop

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that asset to Oz Minerals
needing a ready to develop

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copper asset that literally had
done all the exploration work,

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they just needed to get into
production.

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I was kind of like, at the time,
it was one of those thoughts you

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never really do anything about.
It's just like, geez, there's

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something probably there, but
nothing's going to happen.

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And I can't remember when
exactly the deal got

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consummated, but it would have
been say six months later down

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the track that OZ Minerals ended
up kind of putting an offer on

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to that asset in Kakaru.
Yeah, there's an option, an

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option agreement that they they
entered there from memory.

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Yeah, 100%.
And at the time I was just like,

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wow, like one of those instances
where just fortuitously you saw

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the two companies in the same
day, both South Australian

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companies.
You thought maybe you'd be great

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synergies to see those two
together, one needing capital,

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one with capital, one wanting a
growth project, 1 needy

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desperately a growth partner.
And then they come together and

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you're like, oh, wow, we were
there.

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And I'll send a message to some
of the guys that are on the same

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site because they're going.
Isn't that neat that that kind

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of happened together and kind of
nothing came of it at the time.

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And just like, yeah.
And I mean, I think at the time

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it was probably around a $400
million deal.

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I know there was different
structures to it.

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The, the recent Samphi deal has
been announced.

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But lo and behold, obviously the
BHP as minerals takeover

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occurred and in the mix was kind
of like this small asset that

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probably didn't really fit
within the BHP portfolio,

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obviously didn't the way kind of
transpired.

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But at the time you're like,
what's going to happen with the

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with that asset?
And I started getting interested

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probably as the potential
investment thesis when I've got

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a feeling that Havilah had gone
to $0.27 at the time, which

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would have been, I'm going to
say about 100 million market cap

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maybe.
No, no, probably even less.

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When it was kind of almost, it
felt to me 5050 almost where the

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BHP was going to kind of
progress with that option that

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that OZ Minerals originally
entered into once they'd taken

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over OZ Minerals.
But yeah, and then BHP kind of

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reneged from that option.
And it kind of, I think I, I, I

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should pull up my chart, but
from memory, Haveler went down

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to like, I think 15 or 16 cents.
And everyone just thought

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there's, there's nothing here.
But all the information that I

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was hearing from everyone
involved was that Haveler was

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going to be, well, technically
it stood up.

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It's just that it was too small
for BHP.

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It had no technical flaws.
There was a lot of interest in

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the asset because of the grades,
because of the oxide layer that

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sat on the top, because the
location and because of some of

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the exploration hits nearby that
almost, you know, became a

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province play in have a look.
But it kind of nothing really

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was ever going to happen at that
stage because it just was became

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one of those small cap companies
that just didn't have the

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capital and didn't have the
eyeballs And no offense the

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management team, but I don't
think it was marketed

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appropriately.
So we I'm having to have to go

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whatever direction you want to
take those kind of comments,

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but.
I remember, I remember you first

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like mentioning it to us like,
yeah, must must have, must have

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been subsequent to that option
lapsing that would that BHP let

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lapse.
And I remember you saying like,

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I still think it was a good
trade because you know, what was

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the probability that BHP
exercised that option or not,

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yada, yada.
And even if the stock failed,

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like you still remember
articulating to ask that you

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still thought that was a good, a
good, a good bet to have made.

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Then another bit of context on
this.

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I'd heard from someone that the,
the, the BHP, like, you know,

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deal with Oz Minerals is part of
the rationale why OZ Minerals

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signed the option agreement in
the 1st place.

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Would have like maybe, maybe
that option agreement was

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actually part of the defense,
you know, value negotiation

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stance from, from Oz minerals in
the 1st place.

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Maybe they didn't actually
necessarily have the view to

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exercise that option, but at
least having that on the table

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gave them some links to
negotiate an uplift in price

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from, from BHP, which ultimately
did come to fruition.

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But you still zoom out and you
think there were two 22 copper

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projects in Osmond's backyard
that they could have chosen

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from.
And, and the knock on both of

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them for the longest period of
time is that they haven't come

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knocking on, on either of them.
And that was that was Rex

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Mineral Hillside and that was
Havilus Kalkuru.

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And the one that they they did A
at least a paper deal on was was

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Havilus Kalkuru.
Yeah, I I definitely heard

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something similar.
So in amongst my interest in

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this company, I've spoken to
most of the key players I think

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that have been involved with it.
Excellence Mineral staff

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members, other people associated
with the deal, geologists who've

224
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,280
who've looked at the data,
people within the South

225
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,920
Australian government, all types
of different parties.

226
00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,200
Just to understand why this
asset still sat there as like

227
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,280
this undeveloped asset that has
approximately .9% copper

228
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:53,640
equivalent grade for another
pit.

229
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,600
It almost became a semi
obsession of mine to understand

230
00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,680
why this asset was still left
undeveloped.

231
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,520
I think it might have those
conversations might have

232
00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,640
progressed one night over dinner
when there was another money in

233
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,880
mine guest that kind of been on
your show when I was discussing

234
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,120
with him what his thoughts were
and potentially trying to

235
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,920
progress a deal with them.
And, and I could, I could take

236
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,560
you through a story, but I don't
necessarily want to reveal who

237
00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:19,800
that was in case they, they
don't necessarily want their

238
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,920
name to be associated with it.
But certainly worked our own

239
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,040
angle to try and help the
management team, I guess

240
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,520
liberate value from this asset.
And there was probably, I would

241
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,680
say at least three different
approaches so that for the

242
00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:42,240
management team of this company
between let's say 2020 like 2023

243
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:47,640
and probably early to mid 2025
in different forms.

244
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,120
And that's three from three from
you and and your group Kev, not

245
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,800
to mention the the others that
we correct that have sort of,

246
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,440
you know, we've been inferred
that have approached the company

247
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,160
with with alternate proposals.
Yeah, correct.

248
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,720
So I would say that I, I kind of
almost had a investment

249
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,840
consortium and I was inspired by
someone I'd saying that put

250
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,760
together a few deals of a
similar type of, I guess

251
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,600
methodology to what I was
thinking.

252
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,080
And that like, if we could help
them, I guess build out their

253
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,560
management team a little and
also kind of help capitalize the

254
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:22,840
balance sheet.
It might give them a bit of a, a

255
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,000
stronger footing to go approach
the investment community with a

256
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,160
more institutional type of
company than than what they,

257
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,160
what they have.
I mean, they've, they've

258
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,480
operated a pretty shoestring
budget as long as I've known

259
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,040
them and gone by piece meal with
their own drill rig.

260
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,960
And I kind of thought to myself,
well, if you can actually have

261
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,120
the money behind this company
and actually be well capitalized

262
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,360
with a pathway to getting a, a
fee completed with your own

263
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,440
capital and you actually bulk
out the management team.

264
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:55,040
You know, there was a few guys
at Oz Murals.

265
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,240
I would have loved to say that
we were able to get Andrew Cole

266
00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,560
and convince him to come join
the, the board or the, OR the

267
00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:01,600
management team of Haveland,
which was my original, original

268
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,640
thought.
It wasn't to be, but there was a

269
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,960
few guys in the mix.
And I don't, I don't want to say

270
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,320
who they were in in case they
didn't want to be named either.

271
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,800
But we've spoken to a few guys
that we thought might have been

272
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,320
appropriate to, to help with the
management team there and, and

273
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,840
thought what, what we had was a
good proposal, including maybe a

274
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,440
corporate that might have given
some added credibility to the

275
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:25,200
project and to the asset.
And so, yeah, the most recent

276
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,520
approach, and I might have
alluded to it on your Christmas

277
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,200
crackers special like I, I did
mention the fact that I was, I

278
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,800
was pretty interested in a
couple of cover plays and, and

279
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,280
one of them was this potential
deal that we were, we were

280
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,760
thinking about at the time.
But obviously that deal didn't

281
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,200
eventuate.
And at the time I was kind of a

282
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,920
bit confused as to why
management would rebuff such a,

283
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,280
such an approach.
I mean us potentially helping

284
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,480
them fund their balance sheet
and and take that project to A

285
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,960
to a PFS level and also do some
further exploration drilling,

286
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,840
which is kind of what the
Sapphire dealers look like.

287
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,320
So maybe they did learn
something from from our our

288
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,240
approaches is kind of what the
Sapphire dealers kind of come

289
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,960
out with.
But we were going to help them

290
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,720
to basically develop that to a,
to a PFS sage themselves or to a

291
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,840
prefit Sage themselves.
Yeah.

292
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:21,560
So there's a lot to it, but what
I think is transpired ultimately

293
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,120
is that there's been a lot of
people that have have looked at

294
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,720
the asset and most of the
feedback I've had is that

295
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,960
there's been no technical flaws
with the asset, which is the

296
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,720
same feedback that we've had
from our independent technical

297
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,880
experts that have looked at it
they've.

298
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,240
Had an open data room for for a
very long time here, right?

299
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,280
Yeah, correct.
They have had an open data room

300
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,480
and there's been quite a number
of parties I believe that have

301
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,480
gone through that data room.
Our fund had personally been

302
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,560
approached by two or three of
those parties asking for

303
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,360
opinions, advice, asking for
someone that might actually be

304
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,560
able to push management in a
certain direction.

305
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,760
So I was certainly around
diggers expecting that maybe

306
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,160
something might occur of, of
this type of standing.

307
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,720
That's not to say we're 100%
happy with the price or the way

308
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,680
the share price has reacted
since, but there's certainly

309
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,280
been a number of parties that
have expressed interest and done

310
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,760
the detail as far as I'm aware
on, on the asset.

311
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,280
And I mean, my, my, my business
colleague and I, Rob, we, we

312
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,200
were in Perth 12 months ago, I'd
say now.

313
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,000
And I remember having the
meetings with most of the

314
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,400
companies in Perth.
You know, your, your standard

315
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,320
companies and you know, your S
30 twos, your sand fires, your

316
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,800
even some of the gold names.
And the consistent feedback we

317
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,840
kept getting was that everyone
would have loved a developable,

318
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,560
developable copper asset in
Australia, right?

319
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,480
And it just was consistent over
and over again.

320
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,440
Oh, we just love a 50,000 tonne
per annum asset in Australia for

321
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,040
copper.
And obviously, you know, Mac was

322
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,960
there, but you know, that was
already developed and you, you

323
00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,880
had to pay a pretty full price
tag is what we're seeing in

324
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,680
Harmony to acquire that asset.
But everyone just consistently

325
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,640
said we'd love a developable
copper asset in Australia.

326
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,360
And I just kept thinking to
myself, well, has anyone

327
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,040
actually looked at this asset?
I mean, I know that there's been

328
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,000
some assets up in Queensland
that have transacted and

329
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,160
obviously the Rex Minerals deal.
But my understanding of Rex is

330
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,320
it's, you know, probably more
pristine pastoral land than than

331
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,720
what they have in Broken Hill.
The Gray is probably a little

332
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,920
bit lower and it's probably a
bit bit more complexity in the

333
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,000
build it at Rex's project and
there is a Kakaruso it was it

334
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:31,560
was that.
Coming.

335
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,760
Yeah, it was that Rex deal that
got JD and I very interested in

336
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,120
Havelock because the moment you
saw this, you know, yeah, $400

337
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,160
million deal for Rex, it was
like, well, if Oz thought that

338
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,040
Havelock was the better asset
then and and this company's got

339
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,800
a market cap, I think at the
time was like 6065 million bucks

340
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,400
or something like that.
We touched on the the winner one

341
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,040
as well, which you.
Know has got.

342
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,280
Strengths to it, but.
You stole my winner Thunder,

343
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:54,960
right?
I think I was half the winner.

344
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:56,760
Deal got announced.
I think I sent you a message

345
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,560
similar to the line of if we
know he's worth XXX, then Kakaru

346
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,760
is worth dot dot Don.
I think he used that and put out

347
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,720
a tweet at the time.
But at the time you were trying

348
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,079
to kind of, I guess yeah, he he
discrete the fact that like

349
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,880
paddler and Kakaru were the
companies and the and the copper

350
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,280
name that I was talking about in
my Christmas crack.

351
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,920
But anyway, yes, what will be
will be, but unless we see that

352
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,599
today, I mean, we could we could
delve into the deal because I'm

353
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,359
I'm still sitting here going.
Before the deal, let's talk

354
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,319
about the the share registry of
have a lot like why has there

355
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:29,920
been an impediment to to, I
don't know, do a deal like

356
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,600
what's the the shareholder
dynamic and the influence on the

357
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,840
company.
And it's not necessarily like a

358
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,960
bad one.
There's just a hold out on on

359
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,040
value, yeah.
Someone actually asked me about

360
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,520
this today and they're like, oh,
what can you tell me about the

361
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,480
the havless share registry?
And I'm, I'm like, well, he's

362
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,680
pretty devoid of institutions.
I think there might be one or

363
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,320
two.
Some of them aren't necessarily

364
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,520
institutions in your black and
white scheme of institutions.

365
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,960
There's an interesting character
called Bob Johnson.

366
00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,640
And I, I don't think we've got
enough time to go through the

367
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,280
whole history of Bob, but Bob
was the founder of, of Haveler,

368
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,040
also the founder of Chemical Map
Tech, the company.

369
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:08,800
The company.
Yeah.

370
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,560
And Bob has a lot of influence
within the company to the point

371
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,200
where I had presented to the
board previously some of my

372
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,160
thoughts on on Habler and Bob
was in the room at the time,

373
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:23,960
which I thought was interesting
because I think he he's

374
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,800
basically as a material
shareholder and an ex founder of

375
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,160
the company, he still has a fair
bit of sway with the with the

376
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,520
current board and the management
team.

377
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:36,040
So sometimes to the point where
it's extremely influential.

378
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,960
So and he's his position on the
share register has been

379
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,400
questioned at times in terms of
how much stock he actually

380
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,400
controls.
So I think that's an interesting

381
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,800
aspect to the whole register.
And I think sometimes the

382
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,240
companies end up doing some
things that aren't necessarily

383
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,640
interested of all shareholders
might be the best interest of

384
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,920
Bob.
But when you're a founder of a

385
00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,680
business, sometimes that's what
happens.

386
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,640
We've seen plenty of examples of
founder LED businesses doing

387
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,680
some things this, this year in
particular that might not

388
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,240
necessarily be for all
shareholders, but I think he's

389
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,440
gotten really interesting past
Bob.

390
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,560
And I think I, I believe when I
presented to him and the board

391
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,000
that we shared some similar
philosophies and into what

392
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,000
Haveler and Kakaru could be for
particularly SA and, and the

393
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,320
industry at large.
I generally see kind of Kakaru

394
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,480
and the province that they're in
has kind of almost been a

395
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,120
foundational asset for copper in
SA beyond obviously there's

396
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:36,840
Olympic dam, prominent hill and
Carapatina, but I, I think SA

397
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,800
could be a lot more than that.
And, and this province, the

398
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,640
Carapatina province that sorry,
the Kunamara province that

399
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,120
they've got has the potential
for a couple of Kaparu look

400
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:49,480
alikes.
I mean, we've seen some really

401
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,000
interesting hits that have been
there that just haven't been

402
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,600
followed up because they've had
the capital to drill.

403
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,840
And I'm really excited as to
what could actually transpire

404
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,920
from some of the some of the
drill holes that might be

405
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,920
drilled with the expiration
money that Sanfi is throwing it

406
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,160
at the province.
So, yeah, like, I mean, there's

407
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,280
so much, so much to it, but I
think that, yeah, Bob.

408
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,400
Bob Johnson is very super.
Interesting to, to, to the the

409
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,520
credit of management, it's not
like they were like spending a

410
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,960
crazy amount of money and, and
diluting, diluting existing

411
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,000
shareholders a massive amount
along that way.

412
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,960
They've just been there's been a
holdout for a deal that has been

413
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,440
somewhat comparable to the one
that was was tabled by by Oz

414
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,440
Minerals.
And and now as of a couple weeks

415
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,480
ago, we've finally gotten a deal
that is comparable to the the

416
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,960
one that was tabled by Oz
Minerals in 2022, which you want

417
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,400
to run us through what what that
deal was Kev with sapphire?

418
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,640
Yeah.
I think, I think as to your

419
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,080
point, some of the challenges
have been that like that deal

420
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,000
being a couple of years old now,
that was at a copper price I'm

421
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,840
guessing now about 3 bucks, 50 a
pound and obviously we're about

422
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,400
5 bucks today.
And I'd say gold prices are

423
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,560
probably 1500 US and and we're
you know 4th around 4000 today.

424
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,480
So you've had a pretty strong
commodity price environment

425
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,720
since the OZ Minerals deal when
the deal implied was $400

426
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,920
million.
So I can understand management's

427
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,080
I guess anchoring to thinking
that maybe they should be

428
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,560
holding out for a $600 million
type of price tag.

429
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,920
But this probably comes to your
original point, Trev, when you

430
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,200
mentioned that some people had
suggested that HAVA was almost

431
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,280
used as a bargaining chip to BHP
where some people might have

432
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,400
suspected that maybe the price
tag that which OZ Minerals have

433
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,080
struck that that deal might have
been probably 100 or $200

434
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,680
million higher than.
So what might have otherwise

435
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,360
been the case if BHP wasn't
lurking there as a, as a

436
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:40,520
takeover bidder that they were
trying to I guess push in One

437
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,840
Direction.
So that probably created some

438
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,120
issues for management and the
expectations from I guess

439
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:49,560
shareholders and even themselves
going well, geez, $400 million

440
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,280
price tag with copper price and
gold price now higher, you know,

441
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,440
how can we how can we transact
on anything in you know, and

442
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,640
some of the price tags that I
suspect have been floating

443
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,480
around have been two $300
million, right.

444
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,160
So this this deal that they've
now got with, with Sandfire $105

445
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,440
million upfront script and cash.
So that 105 does swing around a

446
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,160
bit with a Sandfire share price
that literally gets them an

447
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,800
option to potentially acquire
another or 80% of the asset for

448
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,240
another $105 million.
So that in itself is I think

449
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,440
extremely interesting for have
the shareholders.

450
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,800
I think the price tag itself,
even though the headline looks

451
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,880
like it's $210 million for 80%,
you've got to remember they're

452
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,760
also funding Atfs which could be
anywhere $50 million, I think

453
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,240
could be a little bit higher
than that even they're they're

454
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,360
putting $30 million into
expiration into into ground that

455
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,000
otherwise wouldn't have seen
that that type of capital spent.

456
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,080
And then at the end of all of
that, people have said to me

457
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,280
that the biggest risk is that
Sam file might do all that work,

458
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,440
work and then walk away.
I mean, if they did spend that

459
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:02,000
money, let's call it 100 and
what, $185,000,000 including the

460
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,680
PFS costs and the expiration
costs and then walked away, I

461
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,240
mean, is that a risk to tablet?
Because then they would end up

462
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,760
with 100% of this asset, right,
That has had a fair bit of

463
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,040
interest beyond just sand, fire
and oz minerals.

464
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,360
That upfront is non is non
refundable.

465
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:19,680
They get to keep.
Worth, yeah, 100% is binding,

466
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,360
yeah, and it's non refundable as
long as at the EGM the

467
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:25,200
shareholders vote for it to
occur, right.

468
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,520
So yeah, that is itself
extremely interesting.

469
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,760
If then Sand Fire wants to
progress with the 80%, they then

470
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,440
need to spend another $105
million in cash and script,

471
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,280
which is in itself extremely
interesting.

472
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:42,200
So that then sets the price tag
85 plus 105, he goes, what

473
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,480
what's that 200 and a bit, let's
call it $300 million for round

474
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,400
numbers and that's for 80% of
the asset, right.

475
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,920
So then Havla are then free
carried on the remaining 20%,

476
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,680
almost like the Onslow situation
for the joint venture partners

477
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,120
to min res.
Now you'll need to pay back the

478
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,120
capital.
So let's let's say that this is

479
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:06,280
AI don't know $1.2 billion
project 20% of that, you're then

480
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,920
going to be talking $250 million
that needs to be repaid from the

481
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,440
cash flow of the asset might
take two years to to repay it if

482
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,240
I'm I'm being optimistic and
generous, but.

483
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:15,960
Importantly, Havlet don't have
to fund that.

484
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,080
They don't have to.
Havlet don't have to fund right.

485
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,880
So you're talking about a
company that's, you know,

486
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,360
literally gotten by on a
shoestring.

487
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:24,760
And you rightly pointed out that
I think management have done a

488
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,280
really good job in controlling
costs.

489
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,240
Like people can call this a
lifestyle company, but it's not

490
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,040
a lifestyle company that's going
been going out there and

491
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,160
spending a lot of money.
I think Chris has done really

492
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,880
well for the the budget that
they've had.

493
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,360
I just, I just think maybe at
times they could have been a bit

494
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:39,920
more market facing and kind of
driven a lower cost of capital

495
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:41,640
for themselves and had the
ability with more capital.

496
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,880
But what will be, will be that's
in the past, but they've done

497
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,560
really well with the, with the
budgets they've got.

498
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,120
They're now in a position where
they're going to be fully funded

499
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,960
for that asset, don't have to
put any dollars in themselves,

500
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,000
gets to a point where they're
going to have 20% of it.

501
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,880
That's free carry, don't have to
put in any capital.

502
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,840
And you're getting a 20% stake
in what is originally going to

503
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,280
be probably a 40 to 50,000 tonne
per annum project, maybe could

504
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,120
get upscale to an 80,000 tonne
per annum project with a 20

505
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:08,680
million tonne per annum mil.
I don't know.

506
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,120
But at the same time, in a small
cap copper space, you know, as

507
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:15,240
well as I do, there aren't a
huge amount of ways to play it

508
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,120
like we're playing develop
because you know, we, we love

509
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,720
everything that Bill's doing.
Maybe not so much the Woodlawn

510
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,360
ramp up today, but I think it's
going to come good.

511
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,480
But there's not, there's not
many ways to play copper, right.

512
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,080
And this is kind of almost to
look through it a stand fire

513
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,880
type of asset, a non operated
position in an asset that's

514
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,440
operated by Sand Fire in
Australia.

515
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:41,720
So yeah, I still think at these
prices, if the look through

516
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,240
before you even think about the
20% is $300 million for that 80%

517
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,840
stake.
And then that 20% stake you'd

518
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,680
assume would get transacted
close to MPV.

519
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,880
You know if you've got Japanese
or Korean money looking to buy

520
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,480
into that project when it gets
to an FID decision, I'd assume

521
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,720
it a transactor close to NPV.
Now our MPV are the project

522
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,000
using gold prices close to where
they are now and and long term

523
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,320
commodity prices in line with
consensus like a copper price of

524
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,320
4:50 to 5:00, we get $1.5
billion Australian and 10%

525
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,680
whack.
So that 200, so that 20% sorry

526
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,240
could be worth as much as $300
million in its own right, which

527
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,720
gets you to about a $600 million
type of valuation.

528
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,360
Now, this is a small cap company
that has always struggled for

529
00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:26,680
capital and, you know, has got
a, an interesting register, as

530
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,000
you said in the management team
that I guess a lot of people in

531
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,400
the market don't necessarily
bat.

532
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,120
So you've got to trade a
discount to that $600 million.

533
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,000
But I was still seated today and
I think I said it to you guys

534
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,000
the day of the deal.
I thought the day after the,

535
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,120
the, or the day the deal had
been announced, particularly

536
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:44,400
when it opened up at I think
3334 cents was cheaper than it

537
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,960
was the day before.
Even I was up 30%.

538
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,440
I think it's a funny thing to
say, but on a risk reward basis

539
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,880
when the asset is potentially
now going to be operated by sand

540
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,320
fire with a clout that they have
and and their ability to develop

541
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,280
projects as as we've seen with
Mathiary, I I just think it's a

542
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,200
completely different company to
what it was before.

543
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,080
So Kev, with, with all the work
you did over over the years

544
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,560
looking at it, the the proposals
you put together, what did you

545
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,040
actually think of the deal that
that Sandfire and and the

546
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,400
company agreed to?
I've had a couple of people ask

547
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:20,760
me this and I, yeah, I, I don't
want to go too detailed as to

548
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,520
why I got asked this by someone
in particular, but I actually

549
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,720
said to this person, I, I
thought it was a really good

550
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,360
deal.
I thought it was a really good

551
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:33,000
deal in the fact that Sand Fire
have entered into a binding

552
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,040
situation.
Whereas the Oz Minerals deal,

553
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,800
there was an option over the
asset for one or two years.

554
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,280
He kind of was sitting half
pregnant.

555
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,040
Whereas this, once the EGM gets
voted on, assuming it hasn't

556
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,600
been an interlope bar, then it's
binding, right?

557
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,320
So Sand Fire are obligated to
give Havilah that that that

558
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,560
capital upfront.
Yeah, you can still say there's

559
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,800
a question mark where they're
going to take the other 80%, but

560
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,440
that puts Haveler in a very
strong position at that point.

561
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,920
I would say that the the the
fact that they've still been

562
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,560
able to retain some of the
southern tenements 100% owned

563
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,440
like that was one of the
sticking points with anyone

564
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,640
trying to approach the company
for a full company takeover.

565
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,360
Is that the management team and
and Bob genuinely believe in the

566
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:14,200
southern tenements.
There is going to be a cavalry

567
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,680
look alike.
Now I haven't seen all the data.

568
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,000
I, I, I can't confirm or deny
whether that's going to be the

569
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,240
case, but like Bergscape for
them stands as a really

570
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,840
interesting prospect.
And, you know, they almost have

571
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,480
dreams that it could be bigger
than Kakaru.

572
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,560
I think the fact that they're
still able to retain a stake in

573
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,480
Muturu, which I haven't even
mentioned when I was talking

574
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,920
about the $600 million in value
they've potentially got at

575
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,880
Kakaru.
Muturu for me, you know, 20

576
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,560
million tons plus, you know, one
plus percent copper or some

577
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,320
cobalt and a little bit of gold
I think stands as a really

578
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,480
interesting asset as well.
And JX Advanced Metals from

579
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,560
Japan have been negotiating with
them on that asset.

580
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,320
I think the exclusivity period
has expired on that, but I still

581
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,400
think there's optionality for a
deal to occur there and maybe

582
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,360
that could be $100 million of
value in its own right.

583
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,280
We certainly see value 100 plus
particularly thing come up with

584
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,160
a an infrastructure solution.
So I actually think the deal

585
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,560
picks a lot of boxes in my mind.
I would have loved to see a

586
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,680
higher price, but at the same
time, you know, compared to the

587
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,280
Oz Minerals deal, you know, we
can, we can argue how I've just

588
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,920
cut it that maybe there is $600
million worth of value here,

589
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,760
which you know, means that Bob
and Chris did the right thing

590
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,960
in, in not kind of selling out
the company for a cheaper price

591
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,480
or selling the asset at a
cheaper price than what they

592
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,560
have.
Because you know, if they if San

593
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,600
Fi can get this project to an
FID decision.

594
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,280
And then if they did want to
sell that 20% stake, which is

595
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,880
free carried and maybe you can
get 200 million plus for it,

596
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,640
then yeah, maybe we can see five
$600 million worth of value,

597
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,640
which with where the share price
is trading.

598
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,280
Like I get it's a small cap.
I get that there's been a

599
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,800
discount for this team and and
everything associated with it,

600
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,600
but I don't know what the
appropriate discount is.

601
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,080
I just think it's way too much
at the moment, right.

602
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,320
Like, yeah, I mean.
I think of the data trading the

603
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,920
day the trade was announced, it
was $0.34 and the upfront

604
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,840
consideration alone was it's
$0.30 per share on the on you

605
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,120
know, it's just it was a it's a
table banger.

606
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,160
And now it's like like trading
like 4340 ish 4344 cents per

607
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,480
share.
And yeah, the C, the C through

608
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,800
even after tax you can you can
be constructive on and.

609
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,800
But yeah, yeah, $150 million,
right.

610
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,680
So, you know, you're literally
paying for the upfront capital

611
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,880
and maybe mood row not even like
you're paying for the upfront

612
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,560
capital, you're paying for the
expiration that you're going to

613
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,640
spend and you're paying some of
it TFs costs.

614
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,400
So yeah, like you've literally
got a free option at their 20%

615
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,120
free carried holding.
You've got a free option that

616
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,400
sand fire comes on, gives them
another $105 million, which was

617
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,440
what's that is $0.22 I think.
Yeah.

618
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,480
So like I, I still see kind of a
dollar as being reasonable line

619
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,920
in the sand, right?
And that's 350 million bucks at

620
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,000
this stage of where they're at.
But maybe the market's waiting

621
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,720
for the EGM vote to go through.
Because I know if you look back

622
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,400
at the the history of this
company, there has been some

623
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,280
some funny situations with
assets in the past where deals

624
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,600
have been voted back.
But yeah, I mean, it's extremely

625
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,000
interesting where it's sitting
today There's.

626
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,800
An EGM vote end of Jan and and
if there's, if there, if there

627
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,200
were any other like interest in
the asset, you've effectively

628
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:31,360
got a you've got to move before
that EGM. 300% So like when I

629
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,080
said I like the deal, I think
another aspect I like about the

630
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,120
deal is there's been question
marks whether the process that

631
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,440
they've run has been as thorough
as it could be and whether it's

632
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:40,680
create enough competitive
tension.

633
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,160
I don't know the insurance and
outs of that whole process

634
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,240
because it's you know, subject
to confidentiality agreements.

635
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,320
But now we've got a very live
option, right.

636
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,920
So if you are really interested
in this asset and you want to

637
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,720
acquire it, you've got until the
end of January.

638
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,280
And what will be will be, right
as as a shareholder, like if no

639
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,200
one else bids for the asset and
it comes the end of January,

640
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,080
I'll say then Sanfi won the
auction and fair play to them.

641
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,480
It's still a really good price
and the share price certainly

642
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:07,720
doesn't reflect what that price
is.

643
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,400
But if someone else is
interested, then we're gonna

644
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,360
find that out hopefully before
the end of January.

645
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,720
And yeah, and and and we'll see
what what will be.

646
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,520
One, one of the other
interesting details here is that

647
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,400
the stock just doesn't trade
that much.

648
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,440
The, the liquidity is pretty low
and obviously you've got the

649
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,160
massive shareholders and, and a
few others speaking for a good

650
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,440
few percent here and there,
which all culminates in a good

651
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,320
few.
But as always is the case on the

652
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,920
day of the deal, you see
heightened volume.

653
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,440
But even on that day it wasn't
massive.

654
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,520
It's, it's a few percent of the
company and that's completely

655
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,840
died down.
So to that end, if, if somebody

656
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,560
were to come in and, and try and
buy a stake there, they're not

657
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,440
going to have an awful lot of
luck without pushing the share

658
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,920
price up, in my mind at least.
Do you see that the same way?

659
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,440
Yeah, I think that's right.
And I think, yeah, what can I

660
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,440
say?
I would suspect that maybe

661
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,840
parties might have tried to
consider acquiring the whole

662
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,080
company and, and maybe that
might have been a bit too hard.

663
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,720
Hence they've had to negotiate
in this type of fashion.

664
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,400
Like if, if I was San file, I
would have thought it'd just be

665
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,440
easier to, to try and acquire
the whole business, right?

666
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,320
And I, I don't know if they
approached him with that

667
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,320
proposal.
I, I know other parties in the

668
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:22,120
past have done so and it's been
harder because of like some of

669
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,960
the desires of and Chris and,
and you know, they pretty much

670
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,440
don't want to see this asset go
at almost any price, but

671
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,360
eventually they've got to
realise the limits of their

672
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,680
capital and, and, and other
shareholders desires.

673
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,680
So, yeah, I think that the
right, if the right approach was

674
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,120
made, I think they'd have to
entertain the consideration of

675
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:42,680
the whole company being
acquired.

676
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,560
But I mean, if we can see $600
million worth of value in that

677
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,840
deal, like you're going to have
to see a price a fair bit higher

678
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,080
than where it is today to at
least entertain an offer.

679
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,040
Can we talk about Knox?
Knock Knox to the thesis, Kev,

680
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,320
One that comes up a bit is, is
is met?

681
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,320
What do you say to that
critique?

682
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,120
I'm just going to say I'm, I'm
not technical, I'm, I'm not a, a

683
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,480
Geo, I'm not a, I'm not a
engineer or any, any stretch of

684
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,800
the imagination that the people
that I have spoken to and, and I

685
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,400
have kind of, I wouldn't say
what's the, what's the correct

686
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,639
word.
I've certainly asked a lot of

687
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:24,000
people who've looked at this in
detail, their opinions and

688
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,719
people that I trust, family
members that have the expertise

689
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,520
and the technical know know how.
And I'd say that a lot of the,

690
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:31,639
the commentary that I received
back is that a lot of the, lot

691
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:34,600
of the mistakes that get made is
that people just think you can

692
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,159
just blend the oxides and the
sulfides at the same time, the

693
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,440
carbonates and the sulfides.
And it just, that's probably

694
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:41,719
where you're going to get
tripped up.

695
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,040
Like you, you probably need 2
separate processing circuits for

696
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,480
the oxides and, and for the
sulfides.

697
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,840
And if you are to process them
separately, it's my

698
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,400
understanding and, and all the,
the work that has been done on

699
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,600
recoveries and even probably the
work that BHP did that supports,

700
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,880
you know, some reasonable
recoveries.

701
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,240
You're not talking high 90s, but
you're talking 90% types of

702
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:05,600
recoveries comes from processing
those in, in, in separate kind

703
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,480
of circuits.
But yeah, I mean, a number of

704
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,360
people have mentioned it, but
it's not a like the reason why

705
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,880
the asset is where it is.
It's is, it's not as simple as

706
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,480
as it could be.
You know, if it was an amazing

707
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,520
piece of geology and it was an A
grade asset, it would have

708
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,760
already been like bought by
someone.

709
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,760
I would say that we've heard
plenty of other, I guess assets

710
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,400
that, you know, during certain
markets that most people

711
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,280
question them, right.
Like I think we've thrown out

712
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,520
different examples where people
questioned Doug Ranger, people

713
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,840
questioned, you know,
Capricorn's color window asset,

714
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,560
right?
Like a slow grade, it's, you

715
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,840
know, tough ore body, whatever.
But like in the right

716
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,680
environment and the right
operators, you find solutions to

717
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,240
these types of things, right?
There's plenty of examples

718
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:54,080
where, you know, in the right
priced environment that these

719
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,080
assets work.
You know, at gold prices of 1000

720
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,360
bucks an ounce and copper price
of 3 bucks 50 today, maybe

721
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,400
Kakaru would be a bit more of a
challenging asset.

722
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,760
But like with that oxide layer
that they've got on top, there's

723
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,760
500,000 oz there that's in the
pre strip.

724
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,320
But if you can get the right
processing circuit, that can

725
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,720
create a pretty attractive
income stream to help you do the

726
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:16,320
pre strip.
That can help you get into the

727
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,320
sulfides that you know.
Then hopefully you can process

728
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:26,320
at the right economics.
The the do you get get any

729
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,720
comfort out of the fact that
like, you know, sand fire under

730
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,120
under Brendan Harris has
obviously been looking at a

731
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,280
bunch of different growth
options.

732
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,800
This is the first first deal
that they've, you know, publicly

733
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,920
come out with since since
Brendan's been MMD there, you

734
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,080
wouldn't think that they they
pay themselves upfront non

735
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,120
refundable component of of of
one O 5 without having some

736
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,240
degree of comfort on on the met
themselves, even if they

737
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,440
they're, you know, proven to be
wrong over time, like they

738
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,040
themselves must have a view that
they're constructive on on the

739
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,680
met to pay a non refundable one
O 5, right?

740
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,360
Yeah, I mean, I get that
everyone wants to have an

741
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,080
opinion, but sometimes I'm I'm
almost surprised that like guys

742
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,360
on X who'll come out and and
knock the project fail to

743
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:14,120
recognize the fact that Oz
Minerals, BHP, Sandfire and

744
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,680
probably at least three or four
other parties that maybe can't

745
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,920
name at the moment have gone and
done the network and said, you

746
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,120
know, give them the thumbs up.
And yet, you know, they've

747
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,920
looked at old feasibility
studies and some of the data

748
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,800
that they've seen and, you know,
from from old announcements and

749
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,360
going, oh, the Met doesn't work.
And it's like, well, to your

750
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,160
point, yeah, Sandfire invented a
non binding agreement, right?

751
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,680
And people say, Oh yeah, it's
$105 million, it's an option.

752
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,480
They'll go, yeah.
But this is what they're putting

753
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,200
their name to, as you said, like
they've, they've looked at, I

754
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,360
don't know how many projects
they've looked at, but quite a

755
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,800
number of projects.
And Oz Minerals, I, I sat down

756
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,400
and they've literally looked at
every single copper asset that

757
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,760
was available.
And, and whether or not it was

758
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,400
just a bargaining chip for BHP,
you're not going to enter that

759
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,040
type of agreement if you didn't
believe in it and you hadn't

760
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,800
done the work.
So, yeah, yeah, I agree.

761
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,200
Like there's, there's, there's
enough credibility and behind

762
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,480
the names that have put their
name to it to go, well, you

763
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,840
know, there's enough detail to
show that it does work.

764
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,200
So, so you've, you know, you've
made the, the opportunity pretty

765
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,840
clear to us.
We've spoken about it a bunch,

766
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,520
Cav It's it's super kind of
interesting.

767
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,560
I'm, I'm really curious to hear
about how you think about

768
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:24,360
sizing, positioning in, in the
name right now, because we've

769
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,320
spoken about it for so long.
But the story has really changed

770
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,240
the the past couple weeks.
And you've always been very

771
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:32,920
disciplined about how you think
about sizing and, and the like.

772
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,080
But obviously we touched on the
fact that we, we personally

773
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:37,840
bought more after the the deal
came out.

774
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,960
How do you think about that?
Yeah.

775
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,960
I mean, like we kind of think
twos, fours, sixes in our in our

776
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,680
fund and and this is this sits
within our smaller opportunities

777
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,640
fund rather than a big fund that
at times when we were talking

778
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,640
about potentially helping them
with a capital solution, we were

779
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,480
entertaining the idea of, of, of
maybe entering into our our

780
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,400
larger fund.
But within our smaller

781
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,640
opportunities funds.
It was originally a kind of a 3%

782
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,400
position.
Like when we got comfort that

783
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,280
maybe they were going to come
along and and potentially accept

784
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,320
our proposal to kind of fund the
the company.

785
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,120
Then with with the capital
raise, then we're thinking of

786
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:16,560
potentially taking it higher
because I could see the

787
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,200
potential on the day of the
announcement, even though I was

788
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,840
only a 3% position.
I just, we just thought it was

789
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,320
just too attractive an
opportunity with the risk reward

790
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,000
having improved from the deal
and potentially like at least a

791
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,000
dollar worth of value sitting
there at you know, 30-3 cents

792
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,080
that we just had to upsize it.
Now whether it stays in the

793
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,400
upsize state.
So it's got, it's gone above a

794
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,120
4% position now, which is one of
the larger positions in that

795
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,720
opportunities fund.
But yeah, it's not, we haven't

796
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:46,080
bet the absolute farm on it.
We're not taking a 10 to 20%

797
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,200
position because that's just not
how we we position size at

798
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,160
Chester, but it is one of the
larger positions just because we

799
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,240
say the risk, risk reward is
extremely attractive.

800
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:55,760
Yeah, I like it.
Kev.

801
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,320
Is there is there anything in
the, in the narrative, in, in

802
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,400
the story or in the thesis that
we that we kind of haven't

803
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,800
touched upon?
I'd love for you to guys do a

804
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,680
deep dive on Bob Johnson and and
some of the interesting kind of

805
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,200
history that he's had with map
tech because it is a pretty

806
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,240
interesting story.
I think the whole map kept story

807
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:16,480
and then I think there was some
interesting kind of court cases

808
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,760
that might have evolved revolved
around Bob and I'm not quite

809
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,880
sure where they all got to, but
there was there was certainly

810
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,120
some late night reading that I
did that was pretty interesting

811
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,040
on the matter.
I'm not sure how much that has

812
00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:33,000
impacted havless decision making
positively or negatively, but

813
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,800
there's certainly some
interesting features around him

814
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,160
and what else, what else around
the story?

815
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:44,160
I mean, I, I just think that
maybe we might see some other

816
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,880
interlopers, maybe.
I mean, that data room has been

817
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,800
open in a long time.
And, and you know, we were

818
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:51,600
personally approached by a few
parties that were, were

819
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,920
interested in that asset.
And the conversations we'd had

820
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,280
with other parties in Perth
suggest that maybe there are

821
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,040
others that are extremely
interested.

822
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,400
And I don't, you know how
things, these things work.

823
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,520
When one person's interested,
all of a sudden you've got other

824
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,400
people interested.
You know, like I remember when I

825
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,120
was a single guy, as soon as you
had one girl that was interested

826
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,160
in you, all of a sudden you get
a few more other offers.

827
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,120
So yeah, mate, maybe there's
going to be a couple of parties

828
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,600
that come out, but I mean, you
know, we've got two months and

829
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,720
it'll be interesting over
Christmas to see what unfolds.

830
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:21,440
You know, if not, if nothing
else unfolds, then I'm pretty

831
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,480
happy with the way that Sanfi
deal looks on on paper, right.

832
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,320
And and hopefully we'd see that
de risk over time as as people

833
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,760
see them kind of I guess enter
into that, that binding and you

834
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,680
get hopefully get a Sanfi share
distributed to you as a, as a

835
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,960
HABLA shareholder or, or, or
whatever it is and see how

836
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,960
things play out from there.
Yeah, absolutely.

837
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,840
How the the company goes about
allocating the the funds is is

838
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,240
the kind of next step to think
through if if no interloper

839
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,800
emerges.
Kev, it's always awesome to to

840
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,160
have you on the show to to chat
through your ideas and your

841
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:52,400
thinking.
So appreciate you coming on

842
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,200
again mate.
I, I do like to say that I, I, I

843
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,280
don't usually like to peg myself
to one stock, but I mean, I did

844
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,080
promise you guys during the
Christmas cracker special that

845
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,000
like whenever something
transpired with this company,

846
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,320
because I was a bit mysterious
about it.

847
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:06,800
I don't like being too
mysterious.

848
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,640
I'm usually pretty transparent
with everything that I do.

849
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,800
But I did say that when
something happened with this

850
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,520
company that had come on.
So this was as, as I promised, I

851
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,240
didn't expect to honestly take
November till it occurred.

852
00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:19,200
I honestly thought it was going
to be a couple of months away at

853
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,520
the time when we filmed it.
But as you know, with all these

854
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,600
things, sometimes everything
takes a little bit longer than

855
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,680
you hope.
But let's see what happens.

856
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:27,960
I, I seriously think there might
be another chapter to this

857
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:29,880
story, but there certainly will
be.

858
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,880
But it's just whether or not
there's another chapter in

859
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,240
between kind of the end of end
of January in terms of another

860
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:37,280
bid.
So fingers crossed and let's see

861
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,400
how we go.
Fingers crossed mate, let's see

862
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,080
if the the next Christmas
prediction is as good as this

863
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,000
one.
Crossed for a for a special gift

864
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,160
from Santa this Christmas.
I don't even mind if it comes in

865
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:48,760
January.
Well.

866
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,360
Yeah, I don't know what I mean,
Maybe maybe getting an M and a

867
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,800
specialist on to to figure out
what's the best kind of time to

868
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,640
lob a bid.
But I know some people that have

869
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,640
tried over Christmas when it's,
it's hard work.

870
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,000
It's it's pretty, it's pretty
inconvenient for some people.

871
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,320
But you know, it certainly puts
pressure on other parties during

872
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:08,800
that time.
So we'll see what happens.

873
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,440
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it absolutely does

874
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,240
put pressure on.
No, Appreciate, appreciate.

875
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:16,440
What's the next Havilah, Kev,
you got anything else in the

876
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,000
works?
Anything for us to study?

877
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,400
Up.
Oh, I can.

878
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,360
I can recycle some of the old
names that we've got.

879
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,120
I mean, like we still think
there's a deal to be done on

880
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,760
Comet Ridge and I, I get what
you're saying about the trim

881
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,720
through, but I, I seriously
think there's still a deal to be

882
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:31,480
done there.
I think, you know, 400 BCF worth

883
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,840
of gas that you know, is still
unencumbered apart from one

884
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,200
small contract on it.
I'm also really interested in

885
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,320
this Equus gas that's coming
into the market in December.

886
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,120
I think that looks really
interesting.

887
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,920
You know, it's almost 2 TCF
worth of gas with 40 million

888
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,400
barrels of condensate that's
coming on with a, oh, an EV of

889
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,920
maybe twenty $25 million, which
I think might be a bit

890
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,520
mispriced.
I think it's complexity with

891
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,440
that asset as well.
But I think the price tag that's

892
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,480
coming on that is it's pretty
attractive.

893
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,280
I still think there's a lot to
come from, from developing bill

894
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,200
or just was without a Woodlawn.
I guess I did kind of make a

895
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,040
joke about his, his ramp up, but
I, I think that's back on track

896
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,760
now.
I think I think the, the ramp up

897
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,960
is looking pretty good and I'm,
I'm looking forward to the next

898
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,360
couple of quarters that they
produce there.

899
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,880
Oh, what else?
There's, there's quite a few.

900
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,520
I mean, Antifa, we're still
waiting on some, some resolution

901
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,040
there maybe.
So there's a few.

902
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,280
There is indeed, mate.
I need to read up on there,

903
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,160
appreciate.
Appreciate you.

904
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,800
Yeah, being being willing to
Bang Bang the table on this.

905
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,160
One mate, there's there's one
thing I'll I'll never stop doing

906
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:33,920
that's banging the table on on
the on the stocks.

907
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,920
I know I should have, I should
have done the big Ding Ding

908
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,880
Ding, but obviously you can tell
I'm a shower, so.

909
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,000
Ding Ding Ding around.
If that is not completely

910
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,080
obvious, just.
Put the dinging gong through the

911
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:45,800
whole episode, all right?
Just make sure that people

912
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,400
realize that this is a
completely biased opinion.

913
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,320
Yeah, but.
Like brought to you by biased

914
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:52,800
people.
Yeah.

915
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,760
Like I'd love to, I'd love to
hear some retort like because

916
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,320
when you see it on paper and you
see it's binding and you see

917
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,360
like the deal that's been
struck, I mean, obviously there

918
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,480
are retorters because people are
selling the stock at 4243 cents.

919
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,960
But I just kind of think the
risk water here is pretty

920
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:08,320
pretty.
Pretty attractive, I think

921
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,440
putting your views out there is
the best way to get the feedback

922
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,000
mate.
So keen to hear what comes back

923
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:13,080
our way after.
This I'm sure.

924
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,120
I'm sure I'll get some stuff.
One way or another.

925
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,320
See how we go.
Ding Ding Ding if it wasn't loud

926
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,480
and clear.
There we go mate.

927
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,000
Fantastic to have Cav back on
the show.

928
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,880
It's been far too long.
I always love chatting with our

929
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,640
good man and all made possible
thanks to our fantastic

930
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,400
partners.
Switch Technology new one at the

931
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,280
beginning of the show there as
well as the classics sandwich

932
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,040
ground support focus the
platform by Market Tech and

933
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,440
Infralinks.
Hoodoo money minus hoodoo.

934
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,520
Now remember, I'm an idiot.
JD's an idiot if you thought.

935
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,720
Any of this was anything other
than entertainment.

936
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,920
You're an idiot and you need to
read out of.