Russian sends uranium stocks flying

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I'm excited.
I don't want to stop a sort of

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do.
I'm excited about uranium.

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Yeah, for the last year or so.
Bit of news out Friday.

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Mate, there's lots to be excited
about today.

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Just bringing you a Christmas
present.

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Oh no.
Maybe, maybe, maybe not

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aluminium.
Aluminium, a bit of copper as

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well.
Super, super interesting news

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coming out sort of Friday over
the weekend, which we'll chat

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about.
Craig, you've got a couple

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cashbox companies.
Exactly.

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Yeah, I came to talk about some
funny special dividends from 2

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separate cashbox companies on my
radar today.

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Plus I've got 2 announcements
for the money miners.

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Maddie, first one along, you're
thinking of Christmas.

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We're going to have a Money of
Mine Christmas party, which

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basically means drinks at the
pub.

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If you're a money miner and you
want to talk mining stocks and

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just reflect on the weird wacky
year and look forward to the

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year ahead and maybe talk about
some word on the decline, then

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we want you to come along.
It's going to be at Brew Dog on

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the 3rd of December, 5:00 PM
onwards.

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It's pretty exciting.
Tuesday night.

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I'll happily talk about fishing
or golf or something because I'm

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probably sick of mine and by the
end of this year, very right.

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And the second announcement that
he is what's coming after the

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end of the year, that's the fact
that JD and I are going to go to

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in Darba this year, which will
be a first for us.

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Fuck, sorry, I keep, I keep
doing that.

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I'm coming for it.
It's 20/20/25.

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We're going to in Darba.
It's not just the fact that

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we're going to go to a buddy
mining conference in South

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Africa that we're excited about.
We're very keen to visit a bunch

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of mining operations that are
also in Africa on the back end

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of that trip.
So you know, we're, we're

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literally, we're keen to do a
bunch of site visits.

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We're keen to see what mining is
like in in Africa.

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We're keen to, you know, get as
close as we possibly can to some

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really interesting kind of
operations out that way and get

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some cool content about it while
we're there.

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So you know, if you have any
suggestions or ideas or you

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know, or even just contacts for
us to help make that happen,

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both from a logistics and a
funding perspective, get in

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touch with us at
gc@moneyofmine.com.

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I'm not going because it's not
safe for me to be drum drunk and

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obnoxious in South Africa.
It's better for the business,

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boys.
Let's get into it.

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The Russian uranium enrichment
ban, temporary ban that come out

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on Friday.
So she's all up and green on

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screen for uranium.
So what's actually happening?

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Also Ding Ding Ding, I'll do
hold.

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I have skin in the game for
Uranium Paladin and Spa.

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I never would have known you'd.
Have had some exploration so

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just letting you know God, if
you wouldn't be this keen if I

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wasn't exposed.
So no, I would be right.

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Let's let's paint the landscape
of what this means before we get

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into the news and everything.
So for those who don't know, US

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relies on Russia for about 20%
of their EUP enriched uranium

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products.
So Russia is responsible for

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about 40% of global uranium
enrichment.

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So and this temporary ban is it
is banning the export of

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enriched uranium from Russia to
the US.

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And this was on the back of US
previously announcing this year

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that US would have to apply for
waivers to import enriched

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uranium from Russia.
So that that was, you know, on

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the back of, I guess, US backing
Ukraine for the Russia invasion

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of Ukraine.
And that was sort of the start

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of this whole US really putting
the foot down to separate itself

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from Russia.
So it's retaliation to those

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sanctions.
Yeah, effectively.

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So now I'll I'll just go into
briefly the context of uranium

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conversion and enrichment.
So I guess like the platform of

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what the flow on effects of all
this is for might some of it

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might be repeated for first time
listeners.

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This is a mining podcast.
If this is your first time

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listening, anything you want to
know about mining, this is a

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place to be this.
Is this is this is more dense

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than mining mate conversion and
enrichment?

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Oh mate, mining, nuclear,
fucking upstream, downstream,

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bloody everything.
We are the men Vertically

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integrated, yes.
OK, so uranium that comes out of

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minds, U3O8, that's the the
powdered uranium product, they

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call it yellow cake.
But U3O8, it's actually the step

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after that it's a bit of an
olivey thing.

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So that's 99.3% U 238 and .7% U
235.

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So that is then sent to a
converter.

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You hear about converters, which
is turned that converts that

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powdered shit into U F6, like
the gaseous form.

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Now the biggest ones that do
this conversion.

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So Iran has tricastanside in
France.

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You got the Honeywell uranium
hexafluoride processing facility

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in Illinois in the US and that's
that partnership between General

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Atomics and Honeywell known as
Convidon.

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So you'll hear about Covidon.
So that's that one that was, you

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know, recently turned back on
Camico has got their Port Hope

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conversion facility in Canada.
So that's in Ontario.

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And then you've also got Russia
and Chinas conversion facilities

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as well.
I think Russia is about 20% of

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global conversion.
Don't quote me on that.

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Something like that.
So then that U F6, the converted

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uranium is then sent to an
enricher so that that's where

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the centrifuges spin the fuck
out of the gas to take away some

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of the U23A and increase the
concentration of the U235.

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So that takes that U235
concentration from about .7 to 3

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to 5%.
And that's the range it needs to

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be into work to go into a fuel
fabricated indoor fuel rod to

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power a nuclear reactor that's
referred to as low enriched

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uranium Lau.
So as you can see, as I said

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before, Russia's responsible for
40% of that global enrichment

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and US relies on 20% of their
needs for their nuclear power

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plants from the Russian
enrichment.

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The rest, the rest of it is done
from like Urano and Uranco.

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So enrichment expansion is going
on at the moment.

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It's not all just fixed to
Russia like that 40% to Russia.

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So you've got your Ranko
expanding their New Mexico

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facility in the US.
So that starts lifting in 2025.

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Irano, they're going to, they
announced they're going to build

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a new enrichment facility in
Tennessee.

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That's a bit bit away because
these things are like freaking

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football fields of centrifuges.
They're huge by the sounds.

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Irano also expanding their
Tricaston enrichment in France,

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30% left due in 2028.
Euranko also expanding their

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Almelo in facility in
Netherlands by 15% in 2027.

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So that's Uranco is the
consortium of its UK Neil Dutch

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and Germany.
So they're, they're the main

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ones, so.
So that Euranko one in New

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Mexico right now, my
understanding is that makes up

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1/3 of the enriched uranium
demand that the reactors in the

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US need in the US, Yeah.
And that expansion you're

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talking about is just a 15%
expansion by 2027, so?

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So not, not there yet.
And then obviously, so it's all

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in the pipeline.
And then from what they say

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about that's the enrichment and
then from what they say about

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the conversion at the moment,
like the conversion's going to

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be like pretty skinny for the
next few years.

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Because you look at the actual
like the U F6 price has

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increased fourfold since 2022.
Like the, which is essentially

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the cost of conversion, like
enrichment costs, prices tripled

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in the same period.
So you can see the graph of the

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relative increase in conversion
in enrichment to the actual spot

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price here.
And it's like really started to

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started to sky rocket.
But that makes the economics of

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building one of these things
better.

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Yeah, I would think from what
they say at the moment, and I'll

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get into this whole lot, the bit
of a U F6 bottleneck, you would,

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it sounds like if people really
need stuff converted, they have

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to pay through the nose, which
you would assume flies into the

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pockets of the converters for
that.

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So I think is if the conversion
is that skinny at the moment and

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they're having to overpay to get
it done and we'll get into why

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that is, I would imagine that
would flow into the pockets of

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the converters.
Yes, No, let's do another

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episode on it.
So I guess the big thing now,

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now on that landscape of
conversion and enrichment, the

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big thing to consider for this
AUP, import ban, import export,

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bloody Rusher and US ban and
each other.

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So when the US buys the AUP, the
enriched uranium from Russia, so

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namely Rosatom, they have to
send return U F6 feet.

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So that's a benefit for them.
So they get the enriched

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uranium.
Once they get it, they then have

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to send back the U F6 that would
have been effectively needed to

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create that enriched uranium.
So it benefits them because it

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delays that having the U F6
first, they can get the enriched

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uranium, then send it back.
But for the Western enriches

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Arano in France and the Uranco
consortium, they have to send

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the U F6 first for them to use
that U F6 to create the enriched

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uranium.
So they need the U F6 sooner for

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that enrichment to to occur.
So with this temporary being

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being invoked, it's there.
There is some there.

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They said there's some U F6 that
would be currently already

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converted in the US that is
owing to Russia for enrichment

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that they've already already
received.

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And then so they have to send
that back.

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But then they also need to get
more U F6 to presupply Iran on

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your Ranko now that they can't
get any more AUP from Russia.

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So it's a bit of a double whammy
on that supply of U F6 and

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temporary.
Temporary is probably the

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keyword here as well.
So I'm not heard commentary.

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Not sure if that temporary ban
is in place because US hasn't

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sent back all the U F6O2 Russia
as part of that the return feed

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contracts or if it's more in
line with the fact that US have

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import banned the import of
Russian AUP and now Russia are

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banning the export of it to US.
So might be a bit from column A

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and a bit from column B the.
Big question, Mattie is, you

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know, what does this mean?
Like how's it impact?

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Does it mean?
Does it impact the equities, you

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know, the physical price, all
that sort of stuff, right?

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So as I said, pretty green on
screen for the ASX 1, so Palatin

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boss, DPLA, Banneman all up
between 68% on the ASX today

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spot uranium price lifted from
79 to 8250 on Friday.

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As I said, spot is that I think
it accounted for 15% of uranium

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purchase last year.
So majority 85% is from long

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term contracts.
So it's a thinly traded liquid

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market.
But the spot price does sort of

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have have the role of like
setting floors and ceilings and

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what they're getting paid in
those contracts based on its

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fluctuation inside those floor
and ceilings.

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So it serves a purpose, but it
is very thinly traded.

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So if there is a bit of a
bottleneck of U F6 currently,

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because they've got to send some
back and they've got to create

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more U F6 to send to the western
enriches like you can't make U

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F6 without U three O 8.
So it's the the question is, is

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00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:57,920
like will will there be like
some short term movements in the

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spot market or however, for
utilities having to buy get

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uranium quicker to get the U F6
created to get the enrichment

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going.
So like you can't can't have one

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without the other.
So it's with that jump in the

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spot price.
I'll be interested to watch this

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week if this if that bottleneck
is sort of a short term thing

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that will require pounds to be
actually produced earlier than

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00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:26,960
utilities expected to produce
them.

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00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,480
Not sure that's that's the very
because it's a pretty firm

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fucking stance that's been put
that like you cannot get AUP on

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this anymore.
There's 20% of U SS enriched

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needs which they are no longer
able to access from Russia.

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00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,760
Yeah.
And even for the alternative

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like enriches to be able to meet
the requirements, they might

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00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,160
have a pound shortfall in in
order to even get that to there

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00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:54,760
is what you're saying?
Yeah, well they got to yeah.

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They just they need to get them
U F6 quicker if they want the EU

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pay back quicker which they and
they'll I would anticipate they

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00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,440
will need, but need to buy
pounds quicker to create that U

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00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,720
F6.
So it's going to be.

224
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,280
Hence price up Oh.
Maybe.

225
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,800
Maybe it's only one day and
because this happened mid during

226
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,920
trading on the Friday night in
the US.

227
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,600
So just going to be going to be
an interesting, interesting week

228
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,480
because you can't, you can't go
on Twitter at the moment without

229
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,840
saying something about maybe
it's just who I'm subscribed to,

230
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,880
but something about bloody
nuclear data centres, Friggin

231
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,720
Elon Musk promoting nuclear.
Like it's all friggin, it's wild

232
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,520
at the moment, but this whole
data centre talk, it's like it's

233
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,720
not really, it doesn't really
affect uranium supply and demand

234
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,240
today.
Like it's, these are obviously

235
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,760
long term things.
It's all like good for the long

236
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,680
term nuclear sentiment and, and
the whole flavour of it, but

237
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,160
it's, it's still a long way
away, still need reactors built

238
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,560
and all that.
Like it seems like the short

239
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:58,720
term things like the Three Mile
Island race start that we heard

240
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,280
not long ago, that seems to move
the needle because it's doesn't

241
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,200
take as long to restart an
existing plan as to build a

242
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,360
whole new one.
So that is shorter term pounds

243
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,720
that are needed to be purchased.
So it's it's a bit more bullish

244
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,240
like that.
I saw an interesting just on

245
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,360
that one quickly Maddie, a sort
of vote from the, the local

246
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,000
people that live around Three
Mile Island.

247
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:23,040
So 57% said they were in favour
of a restart, 43% said they they

248
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,560
were not in favour, which is
kind of interesting number that

249
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,280
kind of stood out at me just on
in terms of that one getting

250
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,200
going again just to get a feel
for the sentiment.

251
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,720
Well mate, if it was a scheme of
arrangement it wouldn't get

252
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,400
through 5757 in US or Australia.
It's.

253
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:39,640
True.
This is true.

254
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,680
It's greater than 50.
That's a good start.

255
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,440
Don't forget, I haven't heard, I
haven't been able to confirm,

256
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,120
but I haven't seen anything to
say that Olympic Dam has resumed

257
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,080
operations after they were
smashed by a tornado.

258
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,240
Tornado, so that was mid
October.

259
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,880
So that was another.
So that's about, they're about I

260
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,480
think 5% of global supply,
uranium around £8 million.

261
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,680
Did say it was just going to be
out for five to seven days.

262
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,320
No, but there's nothing.
Didn't say the restarting.

263
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,920
Nothing to say that it hasn't
that it's restarted yet and I've

264
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,280
heard I've heard come true.
They'll say and it was still

265
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:13,400
down.
I'm not I'm not sure.

266
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,960
So I can't confirm that, but
that's that's a some pounds that

267
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,560
have been taken out.
So yes, it's going to be very

268
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,760
interesting this way to see what
they say you pan in this U F6

269
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,120
feedstock thing has on the
market.

270
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,400
So it's because I've heard I've
heard people saying as well,

271
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,000
like everyone just puts a
friggin a graph up to find

272
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,120
something to support their
thesis.

273
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,000
They're like you're right, I'll
bring up the graph.

274
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,520
You're right.
Uranium spot prices back at the

275
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:46,120
same .1 year ago before it went
on the run from eighty to 105.

276
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,400
And so it's just a perfect craft
to support everyone's thesis.

277
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,840
Good time on to reflect on what
actually caused that last year

278
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,800
and you can weigh up what's
happening now and what's

279
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,560
happening then.
So, so that was sort of November

280
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,640
to February when it had its run
last year, because I because

281
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,320
September 4, that's when Kamiko
announced 2023.

282
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,240
Kamiko announced challenges at
Cigar Lake, Key Lake, MacArthur

283
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,000
River and drop production
guidance by about £3,000,000 on

284
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,360
100% basis that the political
upheaval in Nigeria commenced.

285
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:24,080
So that disrupted uranium
shipments to European nuclear

286
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,440
plants.
So that because Iran, I was 63%

287
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,120
owner of that Samir operating
the Alec mines, that was about

288
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,840
5% of global supply.
Yet Russia's invasion of Ukraine

289
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,560
was ongoing.
So the everyone trying to D

290
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:42,240
bottleneck from Russia day
couple from Russia, sorry. 12th

291
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,600
of Jan 2024, This was the big
one.

292
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,520
That's when Khazadimprom
announced adjustment to the 2024

293
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,320
production due to sulfuric acid
supply issues and construction

294
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,400
delays.
And then, you know, three days

295
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,800
after, that's when the spot
price actually peaked at

296
00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,960
$105.00.
So that's everything that

297
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:03,560
happened back then and this is
where we are now.

298
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,200
So another one.
You missed one there.

299
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,800
Another like, yeah, well,
December 9th, 2023.

300
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:13,000
That's when Daesat released
their new All Terrain vehicle

301
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,560
for Remote Gravity Survey.
So that was that was in that

302
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,800
period developed by their in
house engineering business

303
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,240
extreme fabrications might all
wouldn't underestimate Daish

304
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,640
that's influence on the uranium
spot price at all got it it it

305
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,000
it was in that window it.
It happened then.

306
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:32,160
Yeah.
That just want any sort of GFS

307
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,520
work They can do it all hey?
Well, they had just got planes

308
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,760
and helicopters JD there they
can go on the ground for

309
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,920
magnetics, gravity and seismic.
Bloody Nathan Daish is the man

310
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,320
you need to call his numbers in
the show notes and most

311
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,040
importantly, he is AGC.
Do you think JF is?

312
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,840
Do you think Dashet?
JC authority vehicles,

313
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,400
helicopter gravity control,
that's all you need to know.

314
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:56,160
So going to be interesting.
Wait for the ubles.

315
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,240
I love being I'm in a Twitter
chat now with all the ubles a

316
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,040
lot.
What do you what do you think?

317
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,400
Well, just to flesh out the kind
of bear, the bear side of it.

318
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,560
It's, it's another fragile point
in the whole nuclear supply

319
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,640
chain.
Like not only do you need to

320
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,320
race out or build all these
reactors as well, but you now

321
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,120
realising if you're in the
States, hey, we should

322
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:20,560
definitely be building our own
converting and enrichment

323
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,240
capacity because we can't rely
on the, the current, you know,

324
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,000
status quo.
Yeah, yeah.

325
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,280
And I think and it is happening
with the New Mexico and

326
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,400
Tennessee, interesting one's
going to be the you'd say it's

327
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:37,040
the DLA of uranium is the laser
enrichment as well with Silex

328
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,080
and that I haven't dug too deep
into that.

329
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,120
But they're up more than any of
the uranium miners today.

330
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,040
Silex How much are they up?
15 odd percent.

331
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,160
Yeah, yeah.
So that's going to feed into

332
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,760
that.
But that's, yeah, now that it

333
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,520
was interesting talking to
listening to that.

334
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:57,680
Mark Alcon did a potty on that
triangle investor and you know,

335
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,920
the whole fantasy around SMRS
and everything reckons that in

336
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,000
their models they don't
attribute anything to SMRS just

337
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,720
purely based on the fact they
don't know when they're going to

338
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,200
come online, how much they are
like, when are they going to

339
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,960
work as good?
Like don't attribute anything.

340
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:19,120
I mean, obviously Mike Alkin is
extremely bullish because he's

341
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:21,800
Mike Alkin.
He'd have to, he'd have to learn

342
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,640
too much other shit to go
bullish on something else.

343
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,520
So.
Very interesting that.

344
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:27,800
Was a good, that was a good
yarn.

345
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:33,200
So yeah, there we go.
That's Bob back and relax.

346
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,240
Yeah.
There's actually a bit of a

347
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,440
geopolitical kind of theme to
the show today.

348
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,080
So going to talk about aluminium
and a bit of copper as well.

349
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:45,320
Now.
Now this time it is China US as

350
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,560
opposed to Russia US.
But you guys might have seen on

351
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:54,120
Friday, the aluminium price
pumped over 5% on the LMA and

352
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:56,360
futures were up almost 8 1/2
percent.

353
00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:58,560
I think they settled about 6%
higher.

354
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,160
And conversely, the aluminium
price in China fell a couple

355
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,520
percent.
So here on the ASX Alcoa, the

356
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,360
CDI that trades here up 7% is
32, up over 5%.

357
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,040
And, and I think if there were
more names kind of like the

358
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,280
uranium space that are in this,
you know, supply chain, then

359
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,240
people would be talking a bit
more about it.

360
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,280
But there's just.
Not quite as much attention and.

361
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,080
My memory of the we've been
watching the aluminium price

362
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,760
expecting it to tick up in the
same way that we've seen the

363
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,920
alumina price, you know, just
just soaring up amid the

364
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,960
fragility in that supply chain
as we've sort of discussed with

365
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,200
with Alan Clark and been
following that since, but the

366
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,880
aluminium price hadn't really.
Moved.

367
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,160
Yeah.
It's just sort of single digits

368
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,320
up this year.
And was this the first time you

369
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,160
kind of like we sort of actually
said responded to just the lag?

370
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,920
Yeah, it is.
But it's, it's not because of

371
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,800
those reasons.
It's because something else has

372
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,520
come in.
So should, should flesh out what

373
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,160
what exactly has happened.
On Friday, China came out and

374
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,680
said they're going to reduce the
export tax rebates for a bunch

375
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,360
of products.
So you've got some refined oil

376
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:09,080
products, batteries,
photovoltaics, these were at 13%

377
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:10,640
roughly, you know, different on
some.

378
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,560
And for those products they're
going down to 9%.

379
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,800
Whereas for aluminium and
copper, again, all about 13%

380
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,360
rebates, they're being
cancelled.

381
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,920
So, you know, depending on the
specific semi finished product

382
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,600
that you're exporting, there was
a slightly different percent

383
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,280
rebate, but they've been wiped.
So traders on the LME have

384
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,920
essentially bet that less
rebates means there will be less

385
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:39,640
Chinese aluminium exports, hence
lower global supplier value.

386
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,680
And on the back of that, you see
a price bump on the

387
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,720
international prices.
Again, like I said, not in

388
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,080
China.
The the world's just not getting

389
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,680
along at the moment, are they?
I was thinking.

390
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,680
No one's, no one's working
together.

391
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,680
How much, how much easier would
it be if we all just got a lot

392
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,200
of things would be cheaper?
They need to get me in there.

393
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,120
Get some good vibes.
We'd have nothing to talk about

394
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:01,160
though Manny.
So these changes are coming into

395
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,760
effect pretty quick.
In two weeks time, they'll be in

396
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,560
effect December 1st.
And like you say, Trav, this has

397
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,680
all come at a time when bauxite
and aluminium markets have been

398
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,760
pretty heavily disrupted.
A lot of that came from what

399
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,680
we'd seen in Guinea straining
supply at the bauxite end.

400
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:22,040
We'd seen stuff in, in WA with,
you know, Kwinana being shut

401
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,080
down across the world.
There's been quite a few

402
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,840
disruptions.
So like I said before, aluminium

403
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,520
prices up single digits sort of
under 10%.

404
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,600
Guess how much the alumina price
has been up this year.

405
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:38,680
I'm.
Going to guess 45. 45. 70 fine,

406
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:39,920
that's way off.
Yeah.

407
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,960
So consensus expectations right
now take take these with a pinch

408
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,720
of salt because it's pretty hard
moving and you don't know when

409
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,440
these disruptions come and sort
of get get resolved.

410
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,760
But the expectations are that a
bunch more alumina will come to

411
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,880
the market and ease this price
spike that we have seen in the

412
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,920
next few months.
Early 25 a lot of people were

413
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:03,280
sort of pointing to but you
know, we'll see sometimes it can

414
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,800
take quite a while for these
things to to work their way

415
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,000
through the market all.
Right that that China aluminium

416
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,120
output is a very NE trending
thing, O isn't.

417
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,800
It it is pretty incredible.
Yeah.

418
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,800
So I mean, it, it kind of leads
to a bit of a chat about the the

419
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,560
history.
I found this pretty interesting

420
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,760
digging into why China set these
up.

421
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,600
So they, they set these tax
rebates up in the 80s with the

422
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,520
goal of just offering Chinese
products at lower prices across

423
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,240
the world, you know, targeting
international customers.

424
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,440
And that would obviously, like
you see in that chart, Maddie,

425
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,720
boost their export volumes as
well as economic growth in the,

426
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,680
in the country.
This year specifically, the

427
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,080
exports have been particularly
strong for, for one reason

428
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,400
that's weaker domestic demand
for products, leading these

429
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,920
people to to look elsewhere.
I know we'd sort of spoken in

430
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,760
the past, we'd seen it with
steel.

431
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,120
You've had people like Bluescope
here in Australia complaining

432
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,680
that the Chinese steel makers
are just dumping steel across

433
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,520
the world, lowering the prices,
making it a bit tougher, you

434
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,520
know, for companies like
Bluescope.

435
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,680
See the same for the domestic
steel producers in, in America

436
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,880
as well.
On aluminium specifically, in

437
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,640
the first half of the this year,
exports were up 13%.

438
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,480
Like, I mean, just look at the
trend on that chart.

439
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:18,960
These are, these are big
numbers.

440
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,040
This has been going on for
decades now and to still have

441
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,000
1/2 year, we're up 13% on
copper, which had, you know,

442
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,320
similar sort of story overnight
on Friday with the, the rebates

443
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,360
being cut, the exports of
unwrought copper were up 38%

444
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,400
year on year.
So a lot going on.

445
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,480
And these are, these are big
numbers on trends that have been

446
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,720
going on quite a while.
There's pretty, pretty eye

447
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,680
opening, not the sort of stuff
I'd expected to see.

448
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,200
And this has led to a bunch of
tensions with a lot of people

449
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,800
saying, hey, we need to slap on
tariffs on all the products

450
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,840
there they're exporting because
it's just making it super

451
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,240
uncompetitive for our domestic
industries.

452
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,200
You've seen that.
All over the world.

453
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,920
Cause the whole Trump tariff
thing is nothing's really been

454
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,920
announced yet.
It's all just theories and

455
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,240
everything, isn't it?
Yeah.

456
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,000
I mean, it's all just what he
sort of chipped up and and kind

457
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,800
of said, who knows what actually
gets put into legislation, but

458
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,800
that is that is why we've seen
this from the Chinese.

459
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,640
They didn't say specifically why
they've actually cut the

460
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,040
rebates, but you'd have to
imagine it's exactly that.

461
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,080
So we've seen similar stuff with
gallium, germanium a little

462
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:30,160
while ago, Antimony, obviously,
they're much, much, much smaller

463
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,240
markets like the aluminium
market, the copper market, they

464
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,880
are huge.
And if you just sort of think

465
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,960
about the implications of of
what these guys are doing, they

466
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,840
know around the world there's
pretty limited capacity to grow

467
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,920
aluminium production.
You know that that you can't

468
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,480
just turn that on overnight.
So they know that the Chinese

469
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,880
will be able to pass on some of
these costs.

470
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,880
And the the direct result of
that is the cost of

471
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,360
manufacturing products, say in
the US, say if you're a car

472
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:00,680
maker that needs aluminium, is
it's going to increase your

473
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,040
input costs.
It makes it more expensive.

474
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,000
And maybe that gets passed on to
consumers as well.

475
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,720
And you and you feel the pinch.
So it's the sort of starting

476
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,360
point of the negotiations
between the Chinese and the US

477
00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:15,480
when, you know, it comes to
comes to your country and you

478
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,200
realise everyone's paying a bit
more and they bought themselves

479
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,400
a bit of leverage, right, And
might have to negotiate the

480
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,000
other way.
A lot of this is also targeting,

481
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,240
there was a whole bunch of other
medals being targeted too often

482
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,720
those sort of jewel use ones,
which are both civilian and

483
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,240
military in their application.
So that's just kind of something

484
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,160
that that jumps out and is a bit
interesting.

485
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,480
But yeah, I mean, like, like we
kind of said, I think when Trump

486
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,960
takes office at the at the end
of January, I'm sure this would

487
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,360
be one of the top sort of
talking point or one of the

488
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:47,280
talking points in a bunch of
heaps that they're talking about

489
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,120
when they're sort of setting
these tariff levels that Trump

490
00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:52,680
has spoken about.
You know, said 100% of time,

491
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,840
said 60% at other times.
Who knows where, where things

492
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,960
will add up.
But ultimately, it does kind of

493
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,560
make things a bit more
expensive, at least in the

494
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,520
interim here.
Is do you reckon those tariffs

495
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,440
are going to be like a blanket
across the board thing or is it

496
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,200
going to be different tariffs
for different items?

497
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,880
Like would aluminium and copper
be different to other things?

498
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,720
You would think you would take
them differently depending on

499
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,480
what you can produce internally.
So you don't want to make your

500
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,800
own people suffer too much.
You kind of want to set the

501
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,480
tariffs to protect your
industry, but if you don't have

502
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,800
an industry to sort of speak of
in the certain production of

503
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,120
whatever product that might be
and it's only going to hurt you

504
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,680
to to ramp it up so.
Aluminium would have to be a

505
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,600
case there because it is so, so
bloody China.

506
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,680
Yeah, I mean China is more than
half the the global production

507
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,560
of aluminium.
No, no surprises on on that one.

508
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,760
You're dead right so.
Rare earths would be another

509
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,720
one.
Like, yeah, control they've got

510
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:50,360
there.
Yeah.

511
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:53,640
And it's not just.
It's not just and commodities,

512
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,000
it's a whole range of things.
You know, finished products,

513
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,360
yeah, like electric vehicles
will come into the discussion.

514
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:01,400
Heaps of different products will
come into it.

515
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,200
So to be.
I think it's pretty much

516
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,240
legislation and I think it's, I
think it's more than just

517
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,520
talking points.
I think there's like some

518
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,920
fleshed out kind of proposed
policies that were a part of his

519
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,560
campaign which, yeah, have
nuance to it.

520
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,680
So I should buy BYD right now
before the price?

521
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:17,880
Comes up.
I don't know if Australia will

522
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,960
follow.
Yeah, yeah.

523
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,880
I don't know if Australia will
Chuck on there.

524
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,760
We don't have a car industry to
protect, Yeah.

525
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,200
Yeah, Yeah, we might.
So their their tariffs won't

526
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,680
affect, do you think they'll
affect the price of things for

527
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,680
us at all?
Or potentially prices might all

528
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,280
trend north and just inflation.
But yeah, in terms of like the

529
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,040
the relative discrepancies in in
EVs, I don't know if where is it

530
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,720
like if Australia is as at as
much of A risk of having tariffs

531
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,800
put on Chinese EVs as the US?
Yeah, again, just just one

532
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,520
product.
So we'll, we'll wait and see,

533
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,240
but it's a very, very
interesting time.

534
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,760
Fun fact about aluminium, I
didn't, I didn't know this.

535
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,320
Aluminium is like especially in
coal mines.

536
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,240
It's like a bit of a frowned
upon, not allowed, heavily

537
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,640
regulated thing because
aluminium if it if there's

538
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:09,080
aluminium alloys and they strike
steel, it could create a spark

539
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,840
and there's heavy regulation
around how much aluminium can be

540
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,000
in things.
Risk of a fire Risk of fire and

541
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,200
the.
Gas or stuff, No, so I didn't

542
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,720
know that.
I didn't realise that aluminium

543
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,920
was a bit bloody, a bit bloody
Voodoo chat, cheap.

544
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,440
BT has actually informed me upon
this discovery that there is no

545
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,800
indication that Sandvik uses
aluminium in their ground

546
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,840
Support Solutions.
No, no.

547
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,320
I did try to call to confirm it,
but I don't know.

548
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,360
So I think based on, you know,
if you're thinking that possibly

549
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,480
aluminium, no prices could lift
with this China playing silly

550
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,160
buggers, I don't think it's
going to impact the ground

551
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,160
support division of Sandvik.
No, I don't think.

552
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:51,760
Do you know what what is in
there?

553
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,000
Alloys that Sandvik's ground
support division uses that Pixie

554
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,360
dust magic?
It it's just that is why they

555
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,160
are the best ultimat you could
ever use.

556
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,400
Yeah.
That's something that doesn't

557
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,200
change.
And it's quite the metaphor,

558
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:06,920
isn't it?
Because like, even if China are

559
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,760
playing silly buggers, the
durability of Sandvik's ground

560
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,240
support division is as durable
as the bolts themselves.

561
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,480
What they could like 1MCM VMDX
Bolt couldn't hold up the weight

562
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,040
of the underground mining
industry.

563
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,960
Like I'm getting philosophical.
Talk about heavy shoulders for

564
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:25,440
Derek.
Oh.

565
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,200
Yes, just and like when you
think seeing the ground support

566
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,080
division, you think Derek heard.
Give yourself a Christmas gift.

567
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,640
Get an order in.
Oh, get him in before bloody

568
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,560
even.
It doesn't matter when you put

569
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:37,920
it in, they'll just get it to
you anyway.

570
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaking of Christmas gifts,
Maddie, couple of unexpected

571
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,680
special dividends from some
listed cash boxes that I caught

572
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,760
my eye today.
I found a pair of announcements

573
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,480
which were kind of interesting
this morning because they're

574
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,680
both along the vein of, you
know, these listed kind of

575
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,880
cashbox companies paying out a
special divvy to to

576
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,680
shareholders.
How so?

577
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,280
I've got two companies to talk
about and they both became

578
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,040
cashbox companies in in in
pretty different ways.

579
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,400
So I thought, I thought there'd
be a story to tell on both of

580
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:04,720
them.
Oh.

581
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,160
Take it away.
First one is Red Heel Minerals.

582
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,640
This is the the company that
previously held a 40% interest

583
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,520
in the Red Heel iron ore joint
venture.

584
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,480
That is the project that Minrez
did the deal on and that is what

585
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,600
is, you know, Onslow Iron Ore
project today.

586
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,600
When we, when we talk about that
project, Minres paid, you know,

587
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,160
all up $400 million for that
project in the deal.

588
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,960
And Red Heel they basically
retained, in addition to getting

589
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,880
paid that much money, they
retained a 0.75% FoB royalty

590
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,240
over, you know, over the project
too.

591
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,000
Now Red Heel because they got a
bunch of cash in the door from

592
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,760
these big chunky payments from
from Minres They've they've

593
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,480
actually paid a series of
special dividends to

594
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,440
shareholders to kind of
distribute a good chunk of the

595
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,520
cash it received.
Today's announcement was that

596
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,080
they they're basically paying a
fully franked 30 cent special

597
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,440
divide to shareholders and you
know the stock price ticked up a

598
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,520
little bit so the shareholders
were happy with that one.

599
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,480
These days I find the company
kind of interesting, one of

600
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,560
those interesting vehicles
because like the shoe mine oil

601
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:09,360
prices are USA $100 a tonne.
Then you you'd expect Red Hill

602
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,800
Minerals to get about 25,000,000
Australian per annum in royalty

603
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,120
revenue from the Onslow project.
So that's already interrupt that

604
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,520
30 cent per share divvy, what's
the share price, how much

605
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,120
percent, what's the yield on
that?

606
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,840
About four low 4 bucks.
OK.

607
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,080
So I'll be a bit less than 10%,
yeah.

608
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,600
Up up 8% when I looked on the
day.

609
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,000
God, that's not bad.
Down, up, up after you release a

610
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,600
dividend A.
Pleasant surprise for

611
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,160
shareholders.
You don't say that.

612
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,440
Yeah, yeah.
Gotcha.

613
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:39,480
Continue.
Sorry.

614
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,200
Yes.
So they'll, you know, if all, if

615
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,280
all goes well at Onslow, then
you can imagine Red Hill

616
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,280
Minerals getting kind of $25
million in in royalty revenue

617
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,440
per year.
At the same time, they're using

618
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,920
some of that royalty revenue to
advance some greenfields

619
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,000
expiration programmes in their
portfolio.

620
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,160
So you can kind of imagine this,
this vehicle, they're spending

621
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,120
about $6 million a year on
Greenfield's expiration.

622
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,800
They receive a lot more of that
in the in the royalty revenue.

623
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,640
And so then, you know, I imagine
they'll probably pay like a

624
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,160
handsome kind of dividend to its
shareholders in addition to

625
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,480
doing it's, it's some expiration
endeavours along the journey as

626
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,400
well.
It's kind of like Talisman, if

627
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,560
you if you, yeah, which kind of
comes to mind just from that

628
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,440
royalty funding, the expiration
sort of sort of a model.

629
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,880
Bloody a high a yielding
exploration company that's

630
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,600
bloody that'll be on.
Oh, there you go.

631
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,960
I never heard of it.
Any other any other similarities

632
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,640
to the Great Talisman and?
There's there's other

633
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,000
similarities, Matthew.
So they're both both, like we've

634
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,960
talked about Talisman before,
both both both Red heel and

635
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,160
Talisman, they kind of got these
things, you know, major

636
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,000
shareholders, which are also the
the chair people of those boards

637
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,120
and they've been pretty
successful in the mining

638
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:51,480
industry.
For Talisman, it's obviously

639
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,880
Carrie Armanis of Jubilee fame.
For Red Hill Minerals, it's the

640
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,080
lesser known fella by the name
of Josh Pitt.

641
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,920
And while you probably haven't
heard of Josh before, he's being

642
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,800
associated with three
discoveries in WA, Golden Grove,

643
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,600
Thunderbox and Bounty.
So a fair bit more successful

644
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,520
than most punters out there.
Bounty, one of the most I've

645
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,920
heard, one of the most seismic
underground minds.

646
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,040
It was they were Yeah, right
frigging off, it said.

647
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,440
You people that worked at
Bounty, wow, I didn't job.

648
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:31,120
She's not opens, brother is.
He the other similarity to

649
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,760
Talisman.
So both Red Hill and Talisman

650
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,440
got their royalties thanks to
Minres.

651
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,560
For Talisman, it was one Mara
royalty that paid the royalty

652
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:41,719
income and that funded the
expiration.

653
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,960
That's actually coming to an end
if you read Talisman's latest

654
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,960
announcement.
So they're going to no longer

655
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,040
have that, that royalty paying
their their revenue to fund the

656
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,480
exploration.
In the case of Red Heel, it's

657
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,800
yeah, the Red Heel Lion or JV,
which has a pretty extensive

658
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,240
mine life ahead of it.
So that that that bloody that

659
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:01,440
was IGN was today, wasn't it for
a deal?

660
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,320
It was, and yeah, being 50
metres away from Money Mine HQ,

661
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,280
the Country Women's Association,
I popped my head in Maddie. 2

662
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,400
reasons why I went one.
Scones.

663
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,120
I had, I had.
No, it was.

664
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,640
It was sandwiches and wraps.
Not bad, not bad.

665
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,080
So 1, I just find it an
interesting vehicle, right?

666
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,680
Like when you can fund
expiration with the royalty, but

667
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,240
also you have it, it's kind of
interesting.

668
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:31,120
It's only 64,000,000 shares on
issue with this company.

669
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,520
You can see they don't raise
money.

670
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,400
It's not like, you know, the,
the 64,000,000 is not there

671
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,440
because they've had to do a
consolidation of shares.

672
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,320
They don't raise money.
Major shareholder owns like 40%

673
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,120
of the company, you know, so
it's an interesting vehicle from

674
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,640
that perspective.
Second reason I'm trying to

675
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,880
learn as much as I can about the
Onslow project because of the

676
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,240
significance it has to to the
min res situation right now.

677
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:56,600
So obviously, you know, these
guys have no shit load about

678
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,200
that project being it was in
their portfolio for a very long

679
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,480
time.
So I spoke with people and had a

680
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,400
yarn about, with people who are
all, they're all pretty

681
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,600
optimistic, to be honest on that
front in relation to us about

682
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,800
this, Albeit they do have a, you
know, a royalty that will pay an

683
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,600
annuity like income from, from
that project, but they seem

684
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,680
pretty confident in the cash
flow generation potential of the

685
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,040
project.
But, you know, they're, they're

686
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,880
candid and they talk about if
you even read their kind of AGM

687
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,480
addresses over the years, like
they, they talk about, you know,

688
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,920
they recognise that the project
has, is low grade and has

689
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,640
impurities.
Like they're, they're well aware

690
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,800
of all that sort of stuff.
It's, yeah, it's not like a

691
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,800
glowing, glowing review on that
front.

692
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,760
But they but you know, it's
they're positive about its

693
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,760
ability to make good free cash
flow when optimistic about

694
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,720
Munoz's prospects, too.
Very good.

695
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:44,520
Now, now the cashbox Trav.
What else have you got in the

696
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,800
Cashbox box?
The second one was Indiana

697
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,480
Resources, a bit different to
Red Heel.

698
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,280
They didn't become a cashbox by
selling a project for a lot of

699
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,880
money.
Instead they they had their

700
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,640
project expropriated by the
Tanzanian government and in a

701
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,080
lengthy arbitration process, the
courts have ruled, you know,

702
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,240
that, that they're in favour of
getting a healthy payout.

703
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,600
There's US $90 million
settlement owed to the

704
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,680
claimants, of which 60 million
has been paid so far.

705
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,720
The final 30 million is to be
paid by 30 March next year.

706
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,880
Indiana said that their, their
cash balance as of Friday last

707
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,200
week was was $48 million in
Australian dollars.

708
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,920
So what they're doing is they're
paying out a special dividend

709
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,480
that accounts for 32.6 million
bucks and you know, hence

710
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,600
retaining a cash balance of of
15.4 million.

711
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaking with some shareholders,
they, they kind of have high

712
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:45,840
expectations that there'll be a
decent distribution at the back

713
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,160
end once that kind of final
payment is made as well, you

714
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,680
know, to so, so let's hope
shareholders get what they're

715
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,280
they're hoping for in that
front.

716
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,920
And there is like a, a healthy
second distribution in, in due

717
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,960
course.
If you, if you look at both Red

718
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,800
Hill and Indiana, both of these
sort of cashbox companies, they,

719
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,400
they have a separate expiration
agenda that they're trying to

720
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,960
pursue.
One of them is able to

721
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,280
consistently fund that with the
royalty.

722
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,320
But you know, if you just look
at the the the two exploration

723
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,720
agendas, you know, Red Hills
team, at least with some

724
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:21,400
discoveries, have a few more
runs on the board with their

725
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,320
greenfields exploration though
versus Indiana, but interesting

726
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:26,760
nonetheless.
Their share price was flat

727
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,280
today.
Very nice trap.

728
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,120
Good digging mate.
Would never find that if you

729
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,560
paid me for.
It that that is a Jeremy rapper

730
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,080
company.
That's why it's on my agenda.

731
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:37,400
An interesting one.
Right.

732
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,120
But news out a update from
Resolute on the back of last

733
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,720
week with the detainee of the
seat with three employees, one

734
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:49,280
being the CEO in Mali.
What is going on?

735
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,320
Yes, we got an update today,
Maddie from from Resolute.

736
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,200
They went into a trading halt a
few days ago pending the update

737
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,320
that we saw this morning.
Unfortunately, the three

738
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,720
employees still being detained,
Resolute reported that they're,

739
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,200
they're safe and and all is
well, but hopefully they are

740
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,040
released shortly.
But Resolute, the company has

741
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,040
signed an MOU with the
government of Mali.

742
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,320
So there's a protocol that will
set out a framework to migrate

743
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,800
their assets in Mali to the 2023
mining codes.

744
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,080
That's the most recent mining
code.

745
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,240
There'll also be a couple
payments totaling US $160

746
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:29,920
million.
US one US 80 million is the

747
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,960
initial payment that's already
been made and that will settle

748
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,520
all outstanding debts between
Resolute and the government of

749
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,920
Mali.
So you'll see a further US $80

750
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,560
million to be paid in the coming
months.

751
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,680
And this will also be paid from
the existing liquidity sources

752
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,280
that Resolute say they've got.
So just tapping into the the

753
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,160
funds that they've got, Resolute
said that cash and bullion at

754
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,360
the end of the last quarter of
USA 188,000,000.

755
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,280
So 80 million of that is gone.
They also had US 43 million in

756
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,920
drawn debt plus the company had
140 million.

757
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,000
This is all in US in external
debt facilities.

758
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,320
They were with Ned Bank and
Citibank.

759
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,920
I don't know about this, but I'd
be curious about the bank's kind

760
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,800
of positioning and lending any
further cash.

761
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,320
I don't know if they've got any
sort of claims or can tell the

762
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,400
company they don't want to, you
know, if they want to pull that

763
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,840
sort of financing for further
cash to go in that's a sort of

764
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,320
open ended.
Kind of question, but is that

765
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,320
140 undrawn that yeah, that US
140 is undrawn.

766
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,880
OK, Yeah.
So not, not yet called upon.

767
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,240
So that the company now has an
$830 million in Aussie dollar

768
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:44,600
terms market cap net debt after
the second payment assuming that

769
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,760
goes through in a few months
time of US 15 ish millions, you

770
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:52,080
can call it an EV of about $850
million.

771
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,320
So it's in an interesting
position and the share price is

772
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,480
less than half of what it was
about a week ago trading in the

773
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,520
off a couple percent on on the
news today.

774
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,400
So just looking into the the new
mining code and trying to get a

775
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,440
feel for how things might look
going forward.

776
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,720
And you know, importantly, what
resolute might do the decisions

777
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:15,560
they might kind of make.
So the new mining code outlines

778
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,520
a minimum 10% free carried
interest plus the option to

779
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,080
purchase a further 20% for the
government.

780
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,760
That is obviously and it's not
yet clear on what terms you'd be

781
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,160
purchasing that extra 20% like
in the cases, so.

782
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,840
That's going up to 20% on top of
the 10.

783
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,960
So to go to 30% total or to go
to 20% total?

784
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,400
Yeah.
So that is how it will be for

785
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,240
new projects in Mali with Siama.
There is already a 20%

786
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:44,760
government interest there,
although they have another

787
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:49,120
deposit sits at 35 kilometres
away, Tabacaroni that provides

788
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,800
oxide feed to Siama that is 90%
resolute owned.

789
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,000
So that might be the first spot
we see a bit of change on in

790
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,000
country.
Yeah.

791
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,280
So and as you said how who
determines the price for the

792
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,120
extra well 10% in that one, but
other ones 20%?

793
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,880
Yeah, it's kind of interesting.
It's tough bartering.

794
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,480
Yeah.
And these are the sort of big,

795
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,520
big talking points.
There's also an obligation to

796
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,040
give 5%, a further 5% to local
Malian investors.

797
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,840
Again, pretty ambiguous what
sort of terms that would be on,

798
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,640
but they they stand out as the
big kind of talking points

799
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,720
because a lot of these changes
in the mining code, they're more

800
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:28,280
applicable to new projects
coming online.

801
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,280
You're talking about tax
holidays after you build a

802
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,400
project, all those sorts of
things.

803
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,640
So for projects already in play,
you know, bearing in mind that

804
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,520
they were under the assumption
that they were grandfathered,

805
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:40,880
that clearly hasn't been the
case.

806
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,200
There's a few more open ended
kind of questions and it kind of

807
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:45,960
leads me to think what what is
resolute going to do?

808
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,520
What's what's the the sort of
philosophy of the company going

809
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,600
to be on investing further cash
in country there.

810
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,640
So they have expansion plans
already underway.

811
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,680
The Siama sulphide conversion
plant is being constructed as we

812
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,640
speak scheduled to be
commissioned in mid 2025.

813
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,200
That was a $55 million CapEx
project.

814
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,880
This was the avenue to get Siama
from 210,000 ounces to 250 odd

815
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,320
1000 oz and they'd already
outlined plans to get themselves

816
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,320
up to that 400,000 oz per annum
number at Siama.

817
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,400
I I wouldn't be shocked if they
sort of put those bigger

818
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:28,120
expansion plans on ice, but
it's, it's a kind of delicate

819
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:29,480
position.
You know, maybe Mali will be

820
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,240
like, no, we want to see you
continue to invest in country or

821
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,200
we'll put the squares on a bit
tighter.

822
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,600
So that's pure speculation on my
end.

823
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,480
I don't really know.
Resolute had sort of spoken

824
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,360
about other growth projects.
Obviously they're mining in

825
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,480
Senegal as well.
They have sort of advanced ish

826
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:51,640
exploration projects in Guinea
and they've also spoken about

827
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,360
exploration in Cote d'Ivoire.
So maybe those things, you know

828
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,320
that it's a long process that
these are exploration plays.

829
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,560
We don't know where it goes.
Maybe they look at sort of

830
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,440
smaller scale given the sort of
trading values of some of the

831
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,440
peers.
There's not heaps out there, but

832
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,880
I wouldn't be surprised if
they're looking more at Cote

833
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,920
d'Ivoire Ghana, places they
think they might feel a bit

834
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,560
safer in.
That sort of said, they're not

835
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,920
completely flush with cash at
the minute.

836
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,680
After there's, there's, there's
something on the cash that

837
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,200
you're missing there and that's
there's a contingent payment

838
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,720
that will be due to them upon
the sale of of Ravenswood, which

839
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:28,680
is expected Q1 next year.
And I think it's like, it's like

840
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,240
100 million bucks or something
like that.

841
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,480
Yeah.
So there's a fair bit of money

842
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,080
coming in the door for them too.
But all accounts, this is a

843
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,280
pretty fucking disastrous
announcement in my opinion.

844
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,480
Yeah.
Like they've just been.

845
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,000
Yeah.
They've just like the government

846
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,560
has basically put the the knife
to their throat, demanded more

847
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,080
money and more ownership and
they've gotten gotten their way.

848
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,280
And the the execs are still are
still detained.

849
00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:54,400
Yeah.
It's a, it's a, it's a

850
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,880
disastrous outcome, I think.
And I'll be interested to know

851
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,640
how quick the process would be
to get CAT if they did choose to

852
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,560
sell.
If Marley took up the option to

853
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,960
buy the extra stake in the
project, how long would it take

854
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,480
for that cash to get into the
door?

855
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,120
What that process looks like?
It's, it's very, very tough.

856
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,880
It would also be interesting to
see what, what the other

857
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,160
companies in the country are
going to do.

858
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,800
You know, we, we saw the sort of
warning shots and some of them

859
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,000
try to sort of play ball and
write some cheques and stuff.

860
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,000
But that barrack is operating in
a much bigger scale and they

861
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,680
didn't kind of pay anywhere near
this much so.

862
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,520
They paid it earlier, but.
Exactly so.

863
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,120
Is there something to read
through there?

864
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:39,400
Who knows?
I mean, I saw with some media

865
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,760
outlets sort of reporting this
was a warning shot to Barrack,

866
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,960
which is kind of interesting on
the back of what had kind of

867
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,560
happened.
But what, what are you really to

868
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:47,920
do?
You just got to keep on going.

869
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,280
Once you've invested that sort
of capital and do what you can

870
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,960
work with the government, try
and make it a sort of cordial

871
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,680
relationship and beneficial to
both parties.

872
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,440
But if you just fly in the
country and they they detain

873
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,400
you, you know you're in a in a
rock and a hard place.

874
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,800
Yeah, I'd, yeah, I'd be
interested enough.

875
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,480
There was anything in the lead
up if they were asking not as

876
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,240
forcefully for money in the
lead.

877
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:14,600
Up, well they absolutely were
you.

878
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,800
You go back and look at the
quarterly report from Resolute

879
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,200
and there's wording to to that
effect.

880
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,080
There is, you know, tough
negotiations going on in Mali

881
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,440
and Senegal as well.
And, you know, we expect these

882
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,200
discussions to continue, these
challenges to kind of continue.

883
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:34,320
So there were thing, you know,
tax audits or whatever you like

884
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,480
to call it, ongoing in the
background.

885
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,640
They could have been pretty
forceful, who kind of knows.

886
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,360
But obviously if you're if
you're going to go in the

887
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,720
country and you'll see you've
got some sort of confidence that

888
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:48,640
you're not going to be detained.
So yeah, it's a it's a very

889
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,640
tough position.
I'm sure that you know the

890
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,400
company wouldn't want to really
be operating there anymore, but

891
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,000
it's not not really a viable
option.

892
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,720
I'm not sure if you could really
sell this thing for anywhere

893
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:00,960
near what you think it might be
worth.

894
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,680
But you'd think with those
expansions and everything like

895
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,000
it's obviously in both sides
best interests if those

896
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,480
expansions go ahead and like if
that expedites Mali taking

897
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,040
acquiring a stake to give
resolute the cash to then fund

898
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,840
those expansions.
Like that looks like a win win

899
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:18,600
for both sides.
But is it that simple?

900
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,280
I don't know.
Is it the best use of your

901
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,880
capital as well to like to keep
allocating your capital in a

902
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:28,560
country where yeah, you've
you're expropriating more of

903
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,440
your resource?
I suppose, but when you're when

904
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,360
you're already there and you're
already operating versus going

905
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,160
to build or yeah, greenfields
elsewhere that that's the way

906
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:40,840
up.
I imagine that's something out

907
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,400
of different countries as much
as possible, yeah.

908
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,080
Every country is different
though, so you got to you got to

909
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,480
weigh it up on its on its own
sort of propositions.

910
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,800
They don't want to paint all of
the countries there with the

911
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,120
with the same brush.
A lot of them have operated in

912
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,040
Africa and different countries,
you know, sustainably for a for

913
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,320
a long period and and done well.
Mali is a particularly tough

914
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,920
spot to operate and it's not not
gotten any better over the past

915
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,840
few years.
Was it good two years ago?

916
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,920
But it it.
It's been on a, on a downward

917
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,400
trend and it wasn't, you know,
stand out to start with.

918
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,360
Yeah, that's how you kind of put
it.

919
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,920
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

920
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,800
So I mean, just fingers crossed
they they, they release the

921
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,040
people and everyone is sort of
safe and sound and we'll sort of

922
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,080
see where it goes from there.
Drive the merchants or not?

923
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:29,920
Bit of a sombre note to wrap it
up on.

924
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,000
Yeah, very much so.
Oh God.

925
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,480
Well, thank you to the partners.
It's hard to like after talking

926
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,960
about that, just to put the
energy into the partners, but

927
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,480
that is a go team, go team.
December 3rd as well.

928
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,120
Remember it's up.
Yeah, that's it.

929
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,560
Down to the pub.
Hook, JD and Trav up with some

930
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,400
site visits for In Darba.
Yes, Touch.

931
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:52,200
Another good shout out.
I don't.

932
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,480
Want to go to Mali though.
Or the conga, no.

933
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:57,160
Kids go to DRC.
Definitely.

934
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:58,040
Go on.
Yeah, DRC.

935
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,200
We're going, Yeah, yeah.
That's actually, that's actually

936
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:01,080
safe.
Is it?

937
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:01,600
Yeah, that's fine.
Oh.

938
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,320
Good on you.
Anyway, we've got a couple

939
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,200
partners of that.
Stone site for West birth,

940
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,600
mineral mining services,
grounded cross boundary energy,

941
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:16,720
same big ground support.
CR sure it's catral, Dosa and

942
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,880
Hoodoo money miners.
Information contained in this

943
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,640
episode of Money of Mine is of
general nature only and does not

944
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,280
take into account the
objectives, financial situation

945
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,320
or needs of any particular
person.

946
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,680
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

947
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,720
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

948
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:38,400
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.