Rick Squire on the Junior Miners That Can Actually Make It

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Sulphuric acid, one of the main
supplies for that are big

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refineries in the Middle East.
And so it's not just oil that's

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having trouble getting to
market.

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There's actually a supply issues
around sulphuric acid.

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JD returned guest today Rick
Squire, Portfolio Manager at

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Acorn Capital.
He manages the Next Gen.

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resources fund there.
Ricky's a Geo.

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If you haven't listened to Rick
before, he's got tremendous

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insights on on companies across
the entire spectrum of the

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mining complex.
And we talk about at least 30

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companies, I want to say.
Before we JD, we've got to talk

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about exceed capital.
I mean the money miners, they

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have heard us talk about the SP
property trust many times

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before.
But but the collective is their

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flagship fund.
This is these are these are

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commercial property investors,
they're pros and the collective

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is the the flagship vehicle by
which you know private investors

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participate in the commercial
property market.

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Trav, do you know one of the
reasons I love Exceed Capital?

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It is their alignment.
We touched on their alignment in

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the past, but we really need to
hammer home the point.

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Exceed Capital does not get paid
if the fund doesn't perform.

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This is the Warren Buffett
partnerships model.

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They get paid not on AUM, but on
a performance fees.

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So their interests are aligned
with you as an investor.

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That model speaks volumes.
They invest so much of their own

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money in the fund themselves,
hence the alignment.

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It absolutely does, Trev.
That's why we're proud to

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promote the name of Exceed
Capital.

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Find out more in the show notes.
Thank you Exceed capital to

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Rick.
What a what a first quarter that

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was.
Hey, yeah.

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It's the roller coaster.
The the geopolitical context

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start, Yeah, I shouldn't be so
surprised of how much it's

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informing markets and how how
how important it is.

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But my gosh, it just just keeps
going to a whole new level.

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Yeah, it does.
It could really wrong foot you

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at times, but then you know it
also creates the opportunities

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too.
And so that's what yeah, well,

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well, that's my job.
It's really to to to look for

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those opportunities and then,
you know, to see where the

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mispricing really comes from it.
And and so that's where, you

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know, we're we're working hard
to to see that.

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And sometimes the opportunities
pop up really quickly and, and

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other times, you know, you just
got to always say you got to

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stand in the fast moving stream
and you just got to watch for

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those things to come by and you
don't don't leave too early.

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You know, a lot of people get
anxious and go, you know, it's a

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tough month.
I've got to redeem it quickly.

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And you got to sort of jump on
that, that the first log that

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comes by and sometimes you got
to, you know, let things go and,

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and you stand there and watch
and, and you jump and, and other

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times it, you know, lands in
your lap a bit quicker.

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So it always happen.
I always hope for the the quick

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resolution.
But no, it's going to be

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exciting.
It's going to be exciting year,

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I think.
So hopefully a good year as well

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as exciting.
We, we all hope so.

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We do we do I I reckon we're
going to start talking about

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some some very good stuff.
So I might just start the start

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the recording Rick and we can we
can we can jump straight in.

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I thought we are here.
Rick Squire, thank you so much

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for joining us.
We're excited to chat.

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It's been a little while other
than the the predictions we got

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for for 2026.
But as we were just saying

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before we started recording what
a roller coaster Q1 has been and

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you know into the the first
little bit of of Q2 now.

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So I'd love to start the
conversation by just hearing

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what are the lessons imprinted
in in your mind from Q1?

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Yeah, it's a, it's a great
question because it's been such

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a, a wild ride that, you know,
at the end of far, well, late

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January, you know, I was
strutting around like a Peacock,

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pretty happy with how things
were going.

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And yeah, you could, you know, I
was actually, you know, happy

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with how the, the portfolio was
positioned as well as, you know,

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the performance 'cause the, the,
the fun from memory, it was up,

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you know, I was probably up a
bit over 15% in a month, which

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is just an extraordinary, if you
can do that in a year, generally

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you're really happy.
But to, to do it in a month was

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amazing.
So, you know, you look back and

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say, yeah, well, you know, I
should have been selling into

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it.
But, you know, so many times you

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sell into those things that, you
know, just legs up even more

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and, and, and, you know,
sometimes you just got to stay

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on the, the, the wild bucking
horse.

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And, and that was an example of
it that, yeah, it went up so, so

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sharply.
What we were thinking at the

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time or trying to do at the time
was really clear out, you know,

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that liquidity was actually a
really good opportunity to clear

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out some of the stocks that you
weren't particularly happy with.

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And, and that's something we
were trying to do in, in, in

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hindsight, I wish I pushed a lot
harder, but we're actually

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pretty happy with, with what
we're doing in terms of

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repositioning because we came
off for, for Acorn, at least we

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came off a Goodyear last year.
And you know, when you've had a,

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when you've had a good year,
there's a lot of stocks that

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have run well.
And, and sometimes you get in

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this trap of, you know, trying
to squeeze the last little bit

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juicer out of the lemon that,
you know, that's not really the

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best thing sometimes or more
often than not, it's best to

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sell out of the stock, go and
find the next one and reset and,

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and, and move on.
But you fall in love with those

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stocks that have done well.
You really understand them well.

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You see opportunities that are
still there, but it's not

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really, you know, did the upside
that you've, you you've had

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leading into that.
And that's, that's the real

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discipline around the, the, the
process.

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And so that's something we tried
to do in the, the, the, the

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first quarter also the first
month of, of last quarter in,

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in, in January and then in, in,
in February.

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We did the, we, we sort of
continue with that, that, that

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process.
But it was really then blown out

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of the water when the, the war
in Iran started at the end of

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February that, you know, come,
come March, there was a real

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change.
And, and for, for that, it was

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a, you know, a real reset in
terms of the, the thinking.

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But the way we look at it at, at
Acorn is rather than trying to

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sort of pick the top or pick the
bottom of the market, you know,

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we've been through many of
these, you know, bear markets

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in, in, in resources before.
And, and March was a really

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sharp pull back.
You know, you, you look at the,

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I think the GDXJ was down, you
know, nearly nearly 30% for the

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month of March.
You know, that's a really savage

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pull back in, in, in the price.
And we look at our stocks that

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you know, they, they've pulled
back, a lot of them pulled back

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really sharply.
But the fundamentals when you

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look at them, you say, well,
gold is still, you know, U.S.

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dollars.
It's, it's well over 4 1/2

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thousand bucks US.
Now that cost base has come up

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because of the the price of
diesel and, and, and also the

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price of some of the reagents
that we're we're seeing that

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going into some of these
operations.

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So you got to be careful that,
you know, the margins are not

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going to be as good as they,
they were before, but still the

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margins are really healthy on
those producers.

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And so, so we're now thinking
more about, well, where are the

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opportunities, but it's probably
tilted us a little bit more back

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towards some of those producers.
And I think what's happened is

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there's been a big sell down,
particularly, you know, in those

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producers and and developers and
that's where it's creating an

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opportunity.
So we're tilting a little bit

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more towards those producers,
those companies that are making

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money and thinking about those
that are actually best

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positioned to to write out this
uncertainty.

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When you when you think of the
like one of your many

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expertises, Ricky's as a as the
technical background is was

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picking, picking discoveries
early.

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And sometimes when you're in
those stocks in times of like,

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you know, market sell downs, you
just, you just lose all

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liquidity in some of those
names.

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Like how do you, how do you
manage that in, you know, when

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you've, when you've got an
attraction to the types of

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stocks that have, you know, 10
bag of potential because they're

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they're they're early, but, but
you know, at the same time

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you're kind of they just they
become illiquid.

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Yeah, that's that look a great
question.

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And and, and sometimes you've
just got to ride out that pain.

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That's just part of the the
process, particularly when

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you're you're a larger farm with
a reasonable amount of money

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invested.
You know, when you, when you're

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managing, you know, you know,
somewhere around $200 million,

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you know, your mindset is, yes,
you go into these companies, but

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you have to write it out because
when you, you, when you own,

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when you're substantial in a
company that's going down, you

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can start selling, but you know,
it's going to drop a lot more

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if, if, if you start ratcheting
down your, you know, change

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lowering your, your, your
substantial holding in in that

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company.
And so that's pretty diabolical.

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So if there's a good reason to
exit it, well, that's what

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you've got to do.
But you know, if it's just the

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market pulling back, well,
you've got to ride that out.

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And the way we balance that is,
is we always keep that, that,

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that amount of exploration,
that, that, that percentage of

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explorers, it's always very
similar in the portfolio.

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We, we, we sit around that, that
2025% range and we're still

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there today.
And at that, that range now the

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whole market's pulled back.
So that percentage is the same.

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But as you said, Trev, the the
explorers can fall a lot, a lot

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harder and a lot sharper, but
then it, you know, it creates

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some really good opportunities.
So a great example of that is

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Midas.
So we just had substantial

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today.
Yeah, just put in the

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substantial on that one.
And so there's a company that's

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exploring for for copper in
Namibia.

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I was fortunate enough to
actually go to site in February.

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I went on a trip to Namibia and
Malawi and, and, and had a look

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at a number of operations and
projects out there.

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And the, the first one I went to
was, was Midas.

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And so we, I went out there, you
know, I had a look, you know,

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they put out some really
exciting drill results in, in

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January, this new project
Spatsu, they literally spun the

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rig around.
They're drilling back in the

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other direction, thinking
differently about the geology,

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coming up with some great
results.

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And so that the the companies
share price it run really nicely

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and it got up one point.
It had got up a bit over a

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dollar, about a dollar $7.08 I
think it was.

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And then suddenly in this pull
back it was down under $0.70.

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And it's like, well, that's
incredible value in terms of

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where we see that company
position copper, it's really

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hard to find quality copper
projects.

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And these guys are under
something.

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And this is, you know, when I
talk about, sometimes I talk

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about when you're in the fast
moving stream, you know, things

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are going difficult.
You're, you're really worried

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about your, your, your survival
that these opportunities come

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by, these big logs come by that
it's like, man, you got to jump

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on that.
And, you know, for, for, for me,

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that was one of those
opportunities.

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So we, we, we, when it got down
to that, you know, 6970 cent

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range, you know, we really went
in and started to move

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aggressively to pick that up
because it's fallen from nearly

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$1.10 to, to, to bid under
$0.70.

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That's big enough pull back.
Now you look at that company and

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I think what the market was
thinking is, yeah, they need to

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raise money.
Off the top of my head, they had

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about 6 or 7,000,000 bucks at
the end of December.

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So you know, they've got 4 rigs
going.

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You can see there's a raise
coming, but you know, it's a

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00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,120
pretty tightly held register.
Really high quality project,

221
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,880
high quality management team,
you know, if, when the race

222
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,480
comes, you know, you really need
to be on the register to get a

223
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,960
decent position in that, in, in
that upcoming race.

224
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,000
So we, we thought that's a,
that's the sort of opportunity

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00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,560
that, you know, we, we, we jump
on.

226
00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:22,200
So that's where we, you know,
actually increasing that

227
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,200
position so that this pull back
has actually created a great

228
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,200
opportunity because we were
buying the stock and then Ram,

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00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,600
we let it go as it went up over
a dollar and then it pulled back

230
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,120
and then we went back and we
went quite aggressively at it

231
00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,520
again.
And so that's where, you know,

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00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,680
we really like to take advantage
of of these sorts of pull backs

233
00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:43,440
because when others are getting
nervous, that's when we jump in

234
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,360
and we we see great opportunity
and things like, you know,

235
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,680
stocks like Midas.
How do you kind of think about

236
00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:51,960
the opportunity set?
I remember when you last spoke

237
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,640
with us, you were, you were
really pumped up about the the

238
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:59,040
developers, you know the the
ones behind the, the producers,

239
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,200
be it on an acquisition outlook,
be it on getting into

240
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:03,880
production, these types of
things.

241
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,960
How do you think about them
right now in the context of

242
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,800
potential cost pressures that
you just mentioned there and

243
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,480
other challenges that might be
on the horizon?

244
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,720
Yeah, look, it's a, it's a
great, great, great question.

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00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,920
When we think about it, we
actually break it down into into

246
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,440
commodities because, you know,
it's really important not to,

247
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,560
you know, pigeonhole all
resources stocks is the same.

248
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:26,720
So what what I mean by that is
when, when you look at gold, for

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00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,400
example, gold's been on this
incredible bull run for for two

250
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,880
years.
It was like beginning of 24,

251
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,440
it's around 2400 US then went up
over, you know, 5400.

252
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,960
So more than doubled over a two
year period.

253
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,960
And then sure, it's pulled back
to, you know, 4647 hundred where

254
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,640
it is today, but it's still, you
know, an incredible run that

255
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,720
it's occurred over 2 years now.
The first stocks to run in that

256
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,240
bull run were the the producers.
That's, you know, the

257
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:57,200
intuitively you think about it,
well, they're producing, they're

258
00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,080
just getting more revenue for
the same, same output, assuming

259
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,440
the cost base is, is similar.
And so the producers were the

260
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,240
first to go.
And then then once they became

261
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,760
fully valued, then the
developers really, really came

262
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,120
in.
The developers, those developing

263
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,960
a project or even still ramping
up, you know, those companies

264
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,280
like new Murchison and Bellevue,
which I've, I've spoken about in

265
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,200
the past.
So we, I still classify them as

266
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,680
developers because they're not
at steady state production, you

267
00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:28,240
know, like a Regis or, or, or,
or or the like.

268
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,840
So they're, they're not going
through that expansion or, or,

269
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,360
or ramp up phase.
So, so I really like that part

270
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,320
of the market.
Now, normally in a, in, in a

271
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,400
long bull market like that, you
would see those developers

272
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:47,320
getting really well, well valued
and then they would progression

273
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,920
into the explorers.
Well, what we're seeing in, in,

274
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,680
in gold is because they're
making so much money.

275
00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:58,480
Those are those producers.
And yeah, they, they, they've

276
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,960
some of these whole trading
arrangements that are quite

277
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,120
lucrative, like new merchants
and golds got on.

278
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,360
There's no need to actually take
the risk to go down into those

279
00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:09,360
really small explorers.
You're, you're actually better

280
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,920
off being in those developers
because there's a really strong

281
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,360
read rate as they come into
production and new merchants is

282
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,200
a, a, a great example of that.
So, So what what I'm thinking

283
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,960
about is you're actually better
being in those developers

284
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,920
because that's where you get
that rewrite.

285
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,800
But you don't need to be in the
really small explorers.

286
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,600
Sitting in that middle part of
the pack is definitely the place

287
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,160
to be.
Now, if you then flip that and

288
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,480
go to another commodity, have a
look at lithium, for example,

289
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:43,560
you know, lithium came out of
its doldrums mid 2025 had a

290
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:48,280
great second-half of of 25.
But the winners in that were

291
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,000
actually the producers.
It was the the pilgrims, the

292
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,480
levers, the lion towns.
They did really well.

293
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,720
And just at the end of the year,
you start to see a few of those

294
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,240
developers take off there.
So there was actually no point

295
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,280
going into a developer in mid
last year.

296
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,160
You, you, as soon as they went
up at PM, it's a great example.

297
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,200
As soon as the price went up,
they did a raise and the price

298
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,000
went back down again.
And so there was actually no, no

299
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,840
opportunity to, to make a gain.
Now towards the end of last

300
00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,400
year, there was a bit of a
rewriting and some of those like

301
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,400
the Wildcats started to, to, to,
to lift.

302
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,560
But again, that's part of that,
that wave that that goes

303
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,680
through.
And then eventually you'll move

304
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,040
on to the Explorers, but that's
going to be a long time away

305
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,120
because there's, you know,
there's two too many good

306
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,760
opportunities in that
development phase.

307
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:43,000
So, so, so the point I'm making
is you start with those, those

308
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,400
producers.
That's where the opportunity is

309
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,560
in the early part of a a rising
commodity market.

310
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,880
But then it goes into the
developers and they all behaved

311
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,640
differently because that
progression from producer to

312
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,320
developer happened very quick
quickly in in lithium.

313
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,880
It was probably a four or five
months when the, the handful of

314
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,000
producers became well valued,
the Lion Towns, the Pilburas,

315
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,200
the Allegra's, then it moved
into those developers, the, the

316
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:14,000
Winsome's, the lift powers, the,
the Wildcats, those sorts of

317
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,040
stocks.
And then and, and that's where

318
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,160
the, the market, so the market's
sort of oscillating between the

319
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,640
two of them right now.
And, and you know, you can go

320
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,680
to, to, to other, other
commodities.

321
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,560
It's the same thing.
You've got to understand where

322
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,200
that commodity is in its
individual cycle.

323
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,000
Trav, we're talking lithium.
You know that the lithium spot

324
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,440
price is an absolute mess.
You can look across all the

325
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,600
different indices out there and
every single one will show you a

326
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,800
different price.
It's the Wild West mate.

327
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,320
I, I get confused by myself, I
say flat, I say Fastmark, I say

328
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:47,800
GFX.
I'm just confused.

329
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,840
But how do you know that you're
getting the best price?

330
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:51,560
Like if you're a producer, how
do you know you're getting the

331
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,640
best price with all these
different numbers and with

332
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:55,680
market that we know you're so
illiquid?

333
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,480
I'll tell you how mate, the big
guys out there, think of Blind

334
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,200
Town, think of Albemarle, think
of SQM.

335
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,160
They're not just sitting around
waiting for a screen to tell

336
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,440
them what their product is
worth.

337
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,440
Mate I know what they're doing.
They are using metals hub.

338
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,280
They're running structured
bidding processes like a

339
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,119
marketplace to let the free
market decide what the best

340
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,920
price for their product is.
They're turning this horribly

341
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,160
opaque process into a
transparent auction.

342
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,760
Game changer that sounds like
made for pricing dynamics.

343
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,960
Instead of just guessing, you're
getting real time price

344
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,560
discovery that reflects the true
clearing price of the day.

345
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,360
If you want to stop leaving
money on the table and start

346
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,200
trading like a like a real
producer, JD, you've got to be

347
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,520
on Metals Hub.
Lyontown is hosting a webinar in

348
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,280
mid-May, so sign up and find out
more.

349
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,400
That's hit medalsub.com/money of
mine to register link in the

350
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:46,320
show notes.
Go medalsub.

351
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,160
Richard, I'm wondering if your
like your preference for certain

352
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,720
commodities has has morphed in
the last quarter?

353
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,960
No, I, I think it's similar.
We're probably, you know,

354
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,920
tilting in terms of where the,
the, the opportunity set is.

355
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,440
You know, when I look at, when I
look at gold, I think that the

356
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,480
fundamentals are, are very
similar.

357
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,840
You know, the, you know, this
whole, you know, debasement,

358
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,920
debasement trade in terms of,
you know, government debt in

359
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,880
the, in the US, you know,
government debt globally.

360
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:21,960
And, and, you know, how do we
deal with this?

361
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,280
And the, the US really doesn't
want that that strong, a strong

362
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,880
currency that they they had in
the past because it had made

363
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,920
them less, less competitive in
terms of their manufacturing

364
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,080
base.
So, you know, when I think about

365
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,560
that, that to me, the
fundamentals say that, you know,

366
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,120
gold will still be strong.
And so for that reason, you

367
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:42,880
know, it's still a big part of
our portfolio.

368
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,280
So for our NextGen resources
fund, they're that's still

369
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,760
sitting around sort of, you
know, low 40s in terms of

370
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,360
percentage of fund that's in, in
precious metals, so which is

371
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,520
probably gold.
So, so we keep keep that as a

372
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,000
core part of the, the holding.
So if I look at the, the

373
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,480
percentage of the commodity
exposure today, it really hasn't

374
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,400
changed much to what it was in,
in, in, in January.

375
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,040
You know, the cash holding is a
little bit bit higher, but it's

376
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,040
not, not, not largely not
enormous.

377
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,320
It's probably off the top of
head 5 or 6%, whereas you

378
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,360
usually are running around 2%.
So, so you know, I'm always

379
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,880
investing, you know, I, I have a
problem with always finding

380
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,840
something worth buying that I
never have the cash levels too

381
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,480
high.
But, but you know, that the, in

382
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,800
terms of the, the, the, the
commodities, we still are still

383
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,160
really like a, a gold.
I think the fundamentals for

384
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,480
copper are really interesting
because this AI build out, I

385
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,040
think that's really interesting,
but I think it's more from the

386
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,160
supply side is where the other
strength is for copper.

387
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,200
And even this disruption that
we're seeing now in the Middle

388
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,160
East could even influence what's
happening in copper because a

389
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,320
lot of the, you, you probably
know that the, the listeners

390
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,840
probably know that, you know,
when copper they're, they, you

391
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,600
can produce as a copper
concentrates.

392
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,920
They have, you know, minerals
like chocolate pyrite that you

393
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,360
produce a concentrate, send that
off to a, a smelter and they,

394
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,280
they, they produce the metal
from there.

395
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,280
But there are, there are other
operations that where they

396
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,800
produce copper cathode on site.
But to produce that cathode, a

397
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,600
lot of them need quite a bit of
sulfuric acid.

398
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,560
And the sulfuric acid.
One of the main supplies for

399
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,800
that are big refineries in the
Middle East.

400
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:35,680
And so, so it's not just oil
that's having trouble getting to

401
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,040
market.
There's actually supply issues

402
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,120
around sulfuric acid.
And so a large percentage of

403
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:45,120
those, those producers, if
they're not going to have supply

404
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:48,600
issues, there's going to be cost
issues because in the US there

405
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,680
are, there are examples of the,
the, the sulfuric acid price,

406
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,000
you know, going up to almost
three times.

407
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,440
And so that's going to put
enormous pressure on, on, on a

408
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,640
lot of these operations, which
could potentially curtail some,

409
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,520
some of the production.
That'll be hard to see read

410
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,200
through the exact timing of
that.

411
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,320
But you know, you've got to
think about it in terms of, you

412
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,920
know, cost based availability.
You know you might you might be

413
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,400
profitable leaving at these
prices, but if you can't get

414
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,240
yourself uric acid, it can be
just as big a problem as as

415
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,640
availability of of diesel.
If if we go deeper on that, I'm

416
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,840
I'm really curious to understand
how, how you, your history, your

417
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,840
experience, Rick has, has shaped
how you think specifically about

418
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,360
the, the copper cycle because
you mentioned what could be a

419
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:37,600
shorter term challenge there.
But if we just cast their mind

420
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,640
back over the past couple years
in copper, there's challenges at

421
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:48,160
El Teniente, Grasberg, Kamowa,
Constancia, just just to name a

422
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:49,760
few that come to the top of
mind.

423
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,680
Is that something you think is
going to be a longer term

424
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,160
challenge across the complex?
Because, you know, these minds

425
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,560
are getting older, they're in
complex parts of the world and

426
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,320
so on.
Yeah, it definitely is.

427
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,920
So that supply side, exactly
what you you spoke about JD,

428
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,040
that's that, that's the thing
that concerns me most.

429
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,800
And a lot of people, you know,
you read a lot of commentary,

430
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,440
they talk about, you know,
demand, but I think you've got

431
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,360
to actually look at the, the,
the supply and, and, and that's

432
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:20,720
what you know, you think about,
you know, the copper price had a

433
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:25,520
great run from about August last
year through to January, but we

434
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,240
didn't see a lot of new
production starting out.

435
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,680
There's a few sort of tin pot
mines that talked about getting

436
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,800
into production, but it's
actually very difficult to

437
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,800
actually bring new production in
online in copper in, in all the

438
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,600
base metals.
And so that, that's, that's to

439
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,720
me, what, what makes the sector
really interesting.

440
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,080
And then, you know, it's really
difficult to actually go from a

441
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,640
discovery to put it in
production.

442
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,840
You know, a lot of the, the, the
list has been around for a

443
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,080
while.
Would probably remember a

444
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,280
company, Staveley Minerals.
So they made an incredible

445
00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:01,680
discovery in, in Victoria
probably six or seven years ago.

446
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,120
It was really exciting, this
discovery, really high grade

447
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:07,320
near surface.
They drilled it out.

448
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,360
It didn't really go anywhere,
you know, and, and it's, you

449
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:13,160
know, they've still got that
discovery and still, you know,

450
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,680
there's nothing wrong with what
they've found apart from the

451
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,880
fact that it's not big enough to
get it into production.

452
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,800
Company's market cap's less than
10 million nowadays last time I

453
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:21,640
looked.
It's crazy how.

454
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:22,760
Much.
Yeah, that's right.

455
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,080
That's a company that was, you
know, won all sorts of awards

456
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,080
for its discovery.
It was, like really exciting.

457
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,160
But it shows you how difficult
it is to go from discovery

458
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,360
through to, to production that
you couldn't sort of put it on a

459
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:39,600
small scale because you can't
operate a small scale mine.

460
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,960
And I'll always say to people,
it's like, you know, if, if, if,

461
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,520
if BHP's got to make a decision,
you know, we need to add a bit

462
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,040
of copper production.
Do they want to go and take all

463
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,960
the technical risks to go and
start up a brand new operation

464
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,720
or do they just put an extra 30
million tons per annum onto

465
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,880
Escondido or something?
You know, it's like, it's like

466
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,040
you just go for a 10% expansion
of what you've got and you can

467
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,640
add another, you know, 20 or 30
million tons per annum to to to

468
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,840
a, to an operation.
Well, that's a lot lower.

469
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,800
You know, technical risk in
terms of your understanding of

470
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,840
the resource doesn't change, the
mining method doesn't change.

471
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,080
Just a little bit larger
processing at same plant.

472
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:23,760
We're just going to put a couple
more ball meals on and make it

473
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,920
run a little bit longer, a
little bit higher rate.

474
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:31,440
Yeah, that is much lower risk to
expand something you've already

475
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,960
got now as Trevi just point out,
then you're going to go, you

476
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,240
know, deeper into the
underground mine or deeper into

477
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:39,880
the pit.
You know, there are, you know,

478
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,240
other challenges in, in, in
doing that.

479
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,720
But you know, that's, that's
where the the expansion's coming

480
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,120
is, is from things like that.
And you know, that is lower to

481
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:52,800
me that if I'm at BHP, that is
lower risk than trying to start

482
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,840
something brand new or, or
moving into a, you know, a

483
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,200
trickier jurisdiction to start
up.

484
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,680
And you, you can see, you can,
you can see, you know, so many

485
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,680
examples of, of, of the
challenges of starting up.

486
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,680
And I think I really enjoyed
your, your podcast with Mark

487
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,640
Conley recently.
And he's talking about the

488
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,640
advantages of those small
companies starting up new minds

489
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,280
that when large companies go in
and large country, the companies

490
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,720
go into a, a tricky
jurisdiction.

491
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,160
You know, it's a difficult
conversation for them to say

492
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,920
that, oh, look, you know, that
tax is going to be hard.

493
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,520
That's going to be make it
difficult for us.

494
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,080
But if you're a small company,
you go and say, well, the

495
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,440
project doesn't start unless we
can, you know, be competitive on

496
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,520
the, on the terms here.
And then the government actually

497
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,800
gets that conversation.
But if BHP walks into a, you

498
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,840
know, a new, new jurisdiction
and has that that conversation,

499
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,600
they'll go, yeah, but you've got
plenty of money in the bank.

500
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,880
You know, it's why do we need to
give anything here?

501
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,000
So, so, you know, they're
they're it's actually difficult

502
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,600
for them to actually move into
those new places.

503
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,800
And so that that's why it needs
to be, you know, left to others.

504
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,480
I.
Think thinking of those newer

505
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,760
places in in the world like West
Africa where where Connelly was

506
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,120
operating is, is one part.
But I'd love to know how you

507
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,480
think about the, the evolving
geopolitical and jurisdictional

508
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,040
risk landscape, because we're
seeing things pop up all the

509
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,720
time.
Ghana is the one that recently

510
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,160
comes to mind with the, with the
changes they made.

511
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,880
But are there are there pockets
you're you're pretty hot on and

512
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,200
and others that are that are
cooling in your mind right now?

513
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,320
Yeah.
The the way we think about it

514
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,800
is, is actually reasonably
simple as it it we always prefer

515
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,000
to invest in in countries where
there already is large scale

516
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,640
mining.
And one, one of the key reasons

517
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,680
for that is, is when you have
large scale mining, the, the

518
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,520
education system, the
bureaucracy is all set set up

519
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,720
for it.
So, so Ghana's a, a, you know, a

520
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,880
good, good example or Cote
d'Ivoire, even places like

521
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,320
Guinea in, in West Africa,
they've got an education system

522
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,080
where they're actually producing
geologists and mining engineers

523
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,360
and metallurgists.
So that makes really sense.

524
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:02,440
But really importantly, they're
also producing an accountant

525
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,320
that actually understands
mining.

526
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,000
Whereas if you go off to Uganda
or, or, or Malawi, for example,

527
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,640
it's like, oh, OK, they've,
they're producing accountants

528
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,760
there.
But the accountants are

529
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,600
understanding, you know,
accounting in, in, in government

530
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,640
or in agriculture.
And then something you or a

531
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,360
construction and then you put
them into a mine and they, they

532
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:24,320
don't understand it.
And, and then the, the

533
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,000
bureaucracy is, is set up in a
way that, you know, the

534
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,320
permitting and everything.
Oh, yes, let's, let's run out.

535
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,760
Like it's a construction site.
And it's like, well, what, what

536
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,040
you do in construction is very
different to what you do in

537
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,040
mining.
And so that's where you can lead

538
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,400
into it just challenges in terms
of explaining to the government

539
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,400
what it is you're trying to do.
But it also opens you up for,

540
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,560
you know, the potential for,
for, for corruption, because no

541
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,520
one really understands the
system properly.

542
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,920
And that's where you get into,
into problems.

543
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,880
So, so the only country where
that rule breaks down, I think

544
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,600
is South Africa.
And that's just a country that,

545
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,840
you know, we, we, we just don't
have any interest in and great

546
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,280
place to, to, to visit, you
know, love going down to Cape

547
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,640
Town in, in February.
And I think there's a, a, a, a,

548
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,240
a better city on earth than,
than Cape Town in, in February.

549
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,840
It's just beautiful down there.
And, you know, I've been to

550
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,680
South Africa probably, you know,
a dozen times and visited all

551
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,520
sorts of operations there.
But just the, the social issues

552
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,120
and the tensions and stuff
there, it just makes it, you

553
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:26,000
know, really difficult to, to,
to operate.

554
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,720
And so that's, that's the
exception to the rule.

555
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,880
But then if I look in, in, in,
in West Africa, you know, we're

556
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,320
we're actually comfortable.
We're very comfortable with Cote

557
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,200
d'Ivoire.
We are pretty comfortable with

558
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,080
Ghana.
Yeah, there are challenges with

559
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:45,680
the military junta in, in, in,
in Mali, in, in, in Burkina.

560
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,320
Oh, Burkina, I think it's
probably no go.

561
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,240
Well, it is no go for us at the
moment.

562
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,640
But Guinea, I think it's not too
bad.

563
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,160
And Guinea, I think as, as much
as they've got a juncture in

564
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,920
place, they seem to actually be
doing the right things and

565
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:03,280
progressing things in, in in a
sensible way.

566
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,400
Now we in Australia would prefer
if there were free and fair

567
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,920
elections, but but you know, I
think they, they're getting to

568
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,680
that point where it will happen.
So some as we limit the, the

569
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,280
amount of exposure in, in the
portfolio that's not too

570
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,440
correct, not not too large that
you know, we can handle.

571
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,960
We're we're comfortable with the
risk in, in, in countries like

572
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,480
that.
Rick, you, you mentioned Midas

573
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,360
as one of the one of the you
know, copper, the you know,

574
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,200
discovery plays that you're,
you've taken a keen interest in.

575
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,480
I'm going to throw a few others
your way, like, you know, that

576
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,120
small cap copper type of
company.

577
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,200
And I understand it's hard to
pick when it's in small cap

578
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,760
copper.
But Solstice, what do you make

579
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,960
of their their discovery?
Yeah, I think that's really

580
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,160
interesting.
And I, I was a little bit slow

581
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,720
picking up on that because, you
know, they, they got some copper

582
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,480
in, in, in the arcade in, in WA
and I've seen it before.

583
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,880
You probably remember Lafroy
exploration made a little copper

584
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,720
discovery not far out of
Kalgoorlie or between Kalgoorlie

585
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,360
and Cambalda in WA.
And, and you know, the share

586
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,600
price ripped up.
And, and I've seen those things

587
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,720
before, these potty high grade
things.

588
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,960
You get a couple of good drill
holes and it falls away.

589
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,720
And you know, unfortunately for
Lafroy, that's what that's what

590
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,120
happened to, to, to them.
But you know, I, I caught up

591
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,560
with Nick, Nick Castleton
recently and he was showing me.

592
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,920
He goes, no, no, Rick, it looks
like a magmatic system.

593
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,800
And I was like, you're joking.
He goes, yeah, I said, what?

594
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,680
In the arcade He goes, yeah, it
was really unusual.

595
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,520
I said, oh, I've got to see the
chips.

596
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,520
And so, so Nick being the the
nerdy geologist like me, comes

597
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,120
along.
So he comes to Melbourne with a

598
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,680
box of chip trays.
He's showing me chip tray so so

599
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,240
he got a massive tick from me
that he's rolled up.

600
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,240
I don't think everyone brings a
bit of call, but now Nicks the

601
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,760
first person to come into my
office with a box of chip trays.

602
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,120
Awesome with a chip tray.
And he's not just one.

603
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,040
He had a couple of them and he's
showing me that the rocks and

604
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,680
because they just don't ask
drilling, they didn't have any

605
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,840
diamond core into it, but it was
really good.

606
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,400
So I think that's actually quite
interesting.

607
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,760
So then my next questions for
Nick and Matt Gates was at the

608
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,280
meeting too.
They we're talking about the

609
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,880
size of these magmatic systems.
And so I've done a lot of

610
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,040
research on these things in the
past.

611
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,000
And you can form these deposits
in small systems.

612
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,840
But yeah, small magnetic systems
produce small magnetic deposits,

613
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,840
but large magnetic systems
produce those larger deposits.

614
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,560
And so, you know, looking at the
scale of that, that's actually

615
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,800
something that I think it's got
potential to to grow.

616
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,000
So, so that was something, you
know, you know, we, we, we, we,

617
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,720
we, we quite like.
And I think, you know, that's

618
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,160
got potential now.
You know, it's early days, you

619
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:48,560
know, you have a look at the
sections.

620
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,120
There's some, you know, really
good intercepts and there's

621
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,720
some, you know, sort of softer
lower grade ones around it, you

622
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,520
know, in these magmatic systems.
And I've gone and visited a few

623
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,600
in South Africa.
You know, you can get these

624
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,600
things called potholes in there
where you just drill it and

625
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,880
there's just like nothing.
There are no sulfides around it

626
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,160
and the next thing is really
high.

627
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,480
So, so it can be difficult
pulling together resource.

628
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,520
But yeah, there's there seems to
be that continuity of, of metal

629
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,440
distribution.
It's just the grade can be a

630
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,880
little bit variable from one
hole to the next.

631
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,680
But, but, you know, I think
that's actually a really

632
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,120
exciting discovery.
That's something that's unusual

633
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:30,720
and, and, and, and sometimes,
quite often, that new discovery

634
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,920
opens up what Jon Ronski would
call a search space looking for

635
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,120
for something that no one's
looked before.

636
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,600
And that's where you've actually
got a really good chance of

637
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,080
making a good discovery.
Whereas if you're looking for

638
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,680
something that's everyone's been
looking at for 150 years, you

639
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,240
know, it's hard to find
something new.

640
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,440
But when you're thinking
differently, that's where you've

641
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,640
got a real edge.
And I think that's also

642
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,920
discoveries, you know, quite,
quite exciting.

643
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,280
These these ones aren't copper
discoveries per SE in recent

644
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,280
history.
They've probably been around a

645
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,240
while, but they just kind of fit
fit in that bucket.

646
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,160
I'll throw a bunch of them at
you all at once.

647
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,960
That I don't know, like peers in
the copper developer sector.

648
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:18,720
Prospect Resources.
Cyprium Caravel true true North

649
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,440
Astral Austral get I'm confused
all the time.

650
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,240
Yeah, yeah.
How like how do you, how do you

651
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,880
think of of that, that cohort of
of of copper companies?

652
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,400
Yeah, there's a really
interesting mix in there.

653
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:35,000
Like, you know, I'll cover them
all if you want, but you know,

654
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,240
think things like Caravel for
for example, you know, you know,

655
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,440
really large, low grade system,
you know, I that's the sort of

656
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,760
thing that I don't like.
And the the reason is it's, you

657
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,960
know, that's really big company
material.

658
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,200
And when you're a junior trying
to do that, you know, like, you

659
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,720
know, billion dollar plus a
start, now you're seeing some of

660
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,280
these billion dollar things get
off the ground in rare earths

661
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,200
with gigantic amounts of
government support, but it's

662
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,200
really difficult for a, a junior
company to, to, to get off the

663
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,280
ground.
So even though the NPV looks

664
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,360
fantastic and, and can be really
big, you know, that, that to me

665
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,560
is, you know, a, a, a stock that
when you talk about the Lausanne

666
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,880
curve, that the valley of
despair is incredibly long and

667
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,280
deep in a, in a stock like that.
And so, so that when, when I'm

668
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,159
thinking about investing that
that's, that, that's not the,

669
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:32,719
the, the, the sorts of stuff
that, that, that I, that I like

670
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,600
now, you know, good luck to Don
Heimer and, you know, I hope he

671
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,320
does well.
So not, nothing against, you

672
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,239
know, the management, you know,
they've got good aspirations,

673
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,320
you know, to, to, to, to do
this.

674
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,199
But I, you know, that's not the,
that's not the best way for a

675
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,320
junior, a junior to actually
cross that divide.

676
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,120
Now every now and then one of
them will will sneak through.

677
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,600
But you just need massive
tailwinds in in commodity price

678
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,280
to to lift it, lift it.
And if they can raise enough

679
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,640
money, yeah, they might be able
to, to, to, to make a fist of

680
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,960
it.
But if there is a pullback in

681
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,520
the, the copper price, yeah, the
copper, the project that needs

682
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,520
the, the, the, the billion
dollar CapEx that they're the

683
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,400
ones that fall the hardest.
And you go back and have a look

684
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,120
at the, the, the, the lithium
boom, you know, those really big

685
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,120
low grade, you know, lithium
projects, they're the things

686
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,040
that just went down to, you
know, that they feel like by

687
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,320
9598%, you know, that that's
where you can really do some

688
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,680
damage on the downside.
So that's the sort of stock that

689
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,840
we don't, don't, don't like.
But you know, in terms of, you

690
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:39,840
know, stocks, we we, we do do
like what was the.

691
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,800
Prospect was one of them.
Oh, prospect, yeah, prospects

692
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,200
are really interesting in in
terms of that's the Zambian

693
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,880
copper project.
So yeah, really good.

694
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,920
Zambia is like a good
jurisdiction.

695
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,960
Like we're not invested.
I don't think I've ever I couple

696
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,400
little juniors had some things
in in Zambia, but you know,

697
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,880
that's a good a good mining
jurisdiction.

698
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,440
You know, it's neighbors, the
DRC.

699
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,640
So it's, you know, it's part of
that, that copper belt, but it's

700
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,760
just on the the Zambia and it's
just stretching into Zambia.

701
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,720
And so they've got like, you
know, quite a quite a good

702
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:17,720
project and you know, those
sediment hosted copper projects.

703
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:19,560
So I think they're really
interesting, you know, because

704
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,520
you can get decent grades, you
can get the scale, it's got the

705
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,200
potential to do that.
So, so that, that's something

706
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:27,680
that's, you know, quite
interesting.

707
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,240
Now we're, we're, we're not
there on that one.

708
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:33,040
But I think, I think that's a
really interesting type of

709
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,240
project.
You know, good management team.

710
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:36,920
They've been there.
You know, they're, they're

711
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,400
progressing well.
I haven't, I'm not not fully up

712
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,120
to speed in terms of where they
are, you know, in, in the last 6

713
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,320
or so months.
But I you know I do like that

714
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:49,440
project and another one.
Yeah.

715
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,120
I mean, I think I threw Cyprium
out there, you know, True North.

716
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,400
I'll throw Anex in there as
well.

717
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,720
Yeah, I'll, I'll tell you
Cyprian, Cyprian said, you know,

718
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,360
sort of had that, you know,
mixed history be that, you know,

719
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,600
in, in terms of, you know, when,
you know, initially mining, they

720
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,040
had all sorts of issues with the
the underground that they then

721
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,800
tried to do the the the hate
bleach.

722
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,200
You know, that obviously didn't
go well well either.

723
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,600
I think one of the challenges
with, with that project is, is,

724
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,440
is actually the, the, the
location it is, you know, very

725
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,760
remote.
It's very difficult to, to, to

726
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,280
get out there.
And, and so when you have mining

727
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,920
operations, small scale mining
operations, you know, it's the,

728
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,520
the, the cost base on that is,
is much higher.

729
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,560
The, the other, you know, big
challenge that you got to think

730
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,440
about is if you're a fi fi
worker and you can hop on a jet

731
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:51,720
and fly up to Kabuli or Laven
and, and, and you're, you're at

732
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:53,680
work really quickly, that's
fine.

733
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,600
But if you've got to hop on a
small plane for, you know, sort

734
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,840
of three hours and then, you
know, travel to side, it's, it's

735
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,800
a less appealing.
And so I think they actually

736
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,520
struggled to, to attract the,
the, the better quality workers

737
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,360
to the site and to retain their,
their, their workers as opposed

738
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,640
to, you know, I see getting in a
nice big jet and, and flying

739
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,400
quickly.
So that, that sometimes those

740
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,720
elements of the, of the, the,
the work environment can make it

741
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,680
really, really difficult.
But I think in terms of going

742
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,400
back to the geology, you know,
it's actually really prospective

743
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:31,800
area.
There's some really good

744
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,040
targets.
Yeah.

745
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,640
I just wonder sometimes whether
you're you're better off doing

746
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,280
like a Spartan and just halting
everything, going back to the

747
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,160
the exploration and just sort of
building out that story and

748
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,880
leaving that restart potential
as the as the incentive.

749
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,360
You know, I think the, so I'm
not so confident around the, the

750
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,760
strategy for, for, for Cyprian,
whereas I think if they, they do

751
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,960
something a little bit more like
Spartan, they leave the

752
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,280
optionality there.
But they're really focusing on

753
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,360
the, the, the, the, the
drilling.

754
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,680
That's where I think they'll,
they'll, they'll have better

755
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,720
success.
So that that's where I prefer

756
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,440
that company to go.
If we, if we look at some of the

757
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,320
gold explorers as opposed to the
developers we touched on

758
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,640
earlier, I'm curious like Trev,
just to to throw some at you

759
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,480
starting with Altair, I'm not
sure if you're familiar, but in

760
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:26,320
in South America, you know,
Guyana, Guyana exactly OCO OCO

761
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,200
West near what J2 and J mean
have there.

762
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:30,400
Is that one you're familiar with
at all?

763
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,080
No, it's I have spoken to them,
but it's not not so I was

764
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,520
talking to someone about them
only a couple of weeks ago, but

765
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,160
no, that's not one I'm I'm
really that familiar with

766
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,680
actually.
I'll I'll throw one at you.

767
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,480
Ballard Mining.
Yeah, Ballard, that's really

768
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,120
interesting.
I really like Tim Manners.

769
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,600
I think he's, I think he's great
actually.

770
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,520
And he's he's got onto a really
interesting project in that, you

771
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,440
know, they've got some tenements
with, you know, really good,

772
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,280
really good prospectivities
building up that resource base.

773
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,640
There's a processing plant near
mine nearby, which, you know, we

774
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,280
most people have heard about
that, you know, they literally

775
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,040
just.
You got the dirt and stick it in

776
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,120
there.
There's not too much of A

777
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,360
resource base, so it's privately
run, but it's obviously been

778
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:25,200
very profitable to now.
So there's generally that's the

779
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,320
sort of project that I really
like that you can actually, you

780
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:33,440
talk about the Lisson curve that
you can go from drilling out on

781
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,560
that expiration phase, you can
actually leapfrog across to

782
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,840
being in production very
quickly.

783
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,200
And there's an incentive for the
owner.

784
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,160
I can't think of the owner's
name, but it's a real incentive

785
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:45,680
for them.
I.

786
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:50,120
Think it's a Ren group and it's
like John and Margaret Bryce is

787
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,200
there the people behind it.
Yeah.

788
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,000
So, so it's a real incentive for
them to actually, you know, find

789
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,960
a liquidity event to to get out,
but to also to, you know, get

790
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:02,320
onto a vehicle that could could
be quite successful.

791
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,160
So, you know, really strong
management team, you know, well

792
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,720
cashed up, having great success
with their with, with, with

793
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:13,880
their drilling.
So, so really, I really like

794
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,600
that one.
You know, we were looking that

795
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,000
we, we took a very close look at
that early in the year.

796
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,080
We just, you know, saw a few
other opportunities that we, we,

797
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,840
we went with instead.
But, you know, like I said, I

798
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,240
think they've, they've, they've
drilled out probably the only

799
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:31,200
negative I'd I'd say on that, on
that project is, you know, some

800
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,120
of the zones are a bit skinnier
and, and, and not as continuous

801
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,440
as, as, as I was like, but you
know, the with additional

802
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,560
drilling, you'll get more
confidence around that.

803
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,040
And we would, would build that
out.

804
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,840
But yeah, that's, you know, good
project, great management team

805
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,320
and, you know, great, great
potential.

806
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,840
So that that's certainly one
we're, we're, we're watching.

807
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,160
What about golden horse?
I think I've heard you mentioned

808
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,600
this one in the past.
Yeah, Yeah.

809
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,280
We're a shareholder that you
know, I like that I caught up,

810
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:04,160
went out to side with Nick and
the team mid last month.

811
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,760
And you know, I think that
that's another really

812
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,800
interesting 1.
You know, there's no processing

813
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,040
plant on on, on site, but
there's, you know, Remilius has

814
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,880
got in a male kid and
maintenance up the road.

815
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:22,120
The, the Chinese have got the
plant in Southern Cross which is

816
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,560
running under capacity.
So, you know, there, there is

817
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,840
some optionality in terms of
them being able to, to feed, you

818
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,040
know, 1 potentially 2 processing
plants in the, in the region

819
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,120
that are, you know, could be,
you know, expanded or, or

820
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,080
restarted very quickly.
You know, I think hopes Hill is,

821
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,520
is, is shaping up really nicely.
What, what those guys are

822
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,200
working on now is really trying
to understand the, the geology a

823
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,240
little bit better to, to, to,
you know, better target and, and

824
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:53,680
to, you know, really build out
that resource.

825
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,200
So, you know, at the moment
it's, you know, a bit under

826
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,440
1,000,000 oz.
They need to, you know, get that

827
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:03,320
up over the over the one 1 1/2
me announce top scale.

828
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,760
So if they can grow that
resource and they've got a

829
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,800
really big drill program this
year, you know that they can do

830
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,680
it.
And you know, I think I think

831
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,200
Nick's doing a fantastic job
leading the company, you know,

832
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,520
positioning it, you know, at one
stage there they had a bit over

833
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,920
50 mil and 150 mil market cap.
So he he's raising plenty of

834
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,240
money.
He's now got that runway to to

835
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:26,240
go off and and and do the
drilling.

836
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:30,360
And so now it's a matter of of
actually generating some good

837
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:31,880
results.
So I think, you know, the

838
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,720
company's in a good position,
but they they really need some

839
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,680
some good drill results to come
out over the next six or nine

840
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,480
months.
Forestania.

841
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:47,880
Forestania in terms of like
Medallion and and those guys

842
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,720
down there.
FRS, the ticker, my goodness,

843
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:54,080
it's like, it's like a $600
million company now out of

844
00:43:54,080 --> 00:44:00,520
nowhere.
Yeah, yeah, Look, it's, it's,

845
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,160
it's not, it's not my, my, my
favorite style probably just in

846
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,360
terms of, you know, when we
looked at some of the, some of

847
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,160
the the section stuff for a
little bit skinny in terms of,

848
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,280
you know, the we we're also
always look very closely at the,

849
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,320
the, the continuity of grade
when you look at on section on

850
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,240
from one section to, to the
next.

851
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,840
And really, you know, to get
that, that confidence to when

852
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,800
you that when you come to mind
these things, you can actually

853
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,720
get the, the, the scale out.
You know what we've seen, you

854
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:32,800
know, too many companies in the
past, you know, talk about, you

855
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,520
know, high grades and I can get
these things and, and, and

856
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,840
produce a a a lot of a lot, a
lot of answers.

857
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,880
But whether you can actually,
you know, produce at the volume

858
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,320
you, you, you, you forecast is
one of the great challenges.

859
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,160
And so for Forest AU, it's one
of those that we've, we've

860
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,240
looked at and it's like, Yep, I,
I can see the potential, but

861
00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:54,840
their ability to execute on that
because of the geology.

862
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,000
That's that's, that's probably
where, you know, I've got

863
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:04,000
concerns around those guys.
If we change commodities now and

864
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,120
to start naming exploration
companies in in general.

865
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,720
You mentioned a few lithium
names, but there's a couple

866
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:12,360
other specifically I'm curious
to ask you about.

867
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,440
I'm not sure if they'll be on
your radar because some of them

868
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:22,560
aren't ASX listed companies, but
Q2 up in Canada is the the one

869
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,400
that really catches my eye in in
lithium.

870
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,360
I'm curious to to hear your more
technical perspective on it, if

871
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,480
you're familiar.
Yeah, yeah, Q2.

872
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,880
I think it's a really exciting
discovery.

873
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:39,200
But when you know, I went out to
I went over to Quebec, probably

874
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,520
I think it was only months ago
and you know, we went out to a

875
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,320
couple of sides.
We went out and had a look at

876
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,840
what what was Sayona now Alevra
had a look at their operation up

877
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:54,240
to Winsome's project, to
Patriots project and a couple

878
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:57,680
other things.
So, so when I went out there,

879
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,760
the, the, the one thing that I
really picked up was, you know,

880
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,600
how remote some of those
projects are and the logistics,

881
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,800
the, the challenges of, of
bringing that commodity to

882
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,040
market.
And that's the really big

883
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,400
advantage for, for Q2.
They've got a large high grade

884
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,680
system, but it's actually in
the, in the, in the South of

885
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,560
Quebec there.
So it's got, you know, potential

886
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,840
to get to market a a a lot
quicker.

887
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:25,000
And that is so important in, in
terms of, you know, produce a

888
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,680
splodge main concentrate, you
know, to get that to, to market

889
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,440
the, the cost, the logistic, the
the challenges around doing that

890
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,160
is, is so important.
And so that's what I really like

891
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,640
about the, the other thing is,
you know, we went through a lot

892
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,120
of the, the, the sections for Q2
as well.

893
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,920
It's a, you know, it's a nice
big broad system.

894
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:48,280
So it's something that can be
mined, whereas you see, you

895
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,800
know, a couple of these smaller
lithium projects where they've

896
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,880
got, you know, narrow a series
of narrow pigmatites that that

897
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,400
they're going to be, you know,
really difficult to to mine.

898
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,000
You've got challenges around
contamination that will will

899
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,280
come up with them.
And so Q2, you know, doesn't

900
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,160
have those issues.
And that's why I think it's

901
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,000
really good.
Probably the, the challenge

902
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,800
there is, you know, around the
the management, you know,

903
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,320
they're, you know, they're
always worried about dilution

904
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,400
and not raising much money, but
then they always look cum issue

905
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,560
and they're not growing the
company quick enough.

906
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,160
And it's, you know, it's a, it's
a strange mindset, yeah, where

907
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,760
they're just worried about
dilution rather than growing.

908
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,000
And you know, Steve Parsons is a
great example where you know,

909
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,840
the first thing he does, it goes
out and and raises as much money

910
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,360
as he possibly can and the share
price keeps going up.

911
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,720
Yeah, because it doesn't look
come issue, whereas Q2 always

912
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:47,880
looks come issue.
And then you know, the the stock

913
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,680
has not really taken off and
achieved what it really could

914
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:56,080
really because I think of poor
strategic thinking on behalf of

915
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,080
management.
Do do you think any of that has

916
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,400
to do with them just being a
Canadian company and and the

917
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,200
challenges with that market
right now?

918
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,360
No, I don't think so.
It's probably just the, the

919
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,920
mindset of, of the measurement.
You know, we came in, we had a

920
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:13,880
chat to them.
We chatted about that strategy.

921
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,800
We talked to them through, I
talked through examples of, you

922
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,680
know, companies that have been
successful and, and raising

923
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,880
money and, and, and, and
growing, growing value, growing

924
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,000
the share price and value for
all shareholders.

925
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,000
But you know that they had a
very different mindset and

926
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,560
that's and, and that they, they
just wanted to hold on to, you

927
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,280
know, the the, that that group
wanted to hold on to their

928
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,280
percentage of the company in
that control.

929
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,960
And so that's a decision.
I think that's just an active

930
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:41,560
decision they've made.
Yeah, yeah.

931
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,720
Interesting.
If we if we change tech to

932
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,080
Australian lithium, what do you
think about Wildcat?

933
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,440
I know you touched on them them
earlier, but they're kind of

934
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,080
growth prospects and you know
bulk Cutter central and and

935
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,120
whatnot that they've been
developing and discovering.

936
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:58,400
Yeah, I think, I think Bob Cut
is, you know, one of the terms

937
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,880
of the developers.
It's it's, it's one of the sort

938
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,560
of top two or three developers
when I when, when I look at them

939
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,520
in terms of the, the
opportunity, you know, the

940
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,680
initial, the initial deposits
were, you know, constrained

941
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,960
within that Pigma type that it
was a, you know, it was a

942
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,200
mineralized zone that was, you
know, just cross cutting it.

943
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,480
And so you could see that the
limits of, of, of that.

944
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,280
But now, you know, Bob Cutter,
they've, you know, made that

945
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:25,720
discovery.
It looks like it's grown.

946
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:28,360
They put out an announcement
this morning saying the strike

947
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,440
instead have been expanded
again.

948
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,200
Now I'm not a shareholder of the
the stock, but we, we are

949
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,840
looking really closely.
I think that they're doing a

950
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,880
great job.
You know, they've probably about

951
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,920
off the top of my head, about a
500 mil market cap, probably got

952
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,600
close to 50 of cash.
So, you know, they're just in

953
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,960
that, that comfortable range in
terms of, you know, not looking

954
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,720
too obvious in terms of, you
know, the next capital raise.

955
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:53,960
But you know, to advance the to
advance the project, they need

956
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,920
to raise more cap, need to raise
more capital.

957
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,240
And so they're in that awkward
position where, you know, they

958
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,640
they're still exploring, you
know, they're trying to build

959
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,840
out the resource, show the scale
of this project.

960
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,000
But what I really like about it,
you know, really good management

961
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,360
team, you know, reasonable cash
position, but it's in a really

962
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,320
good location.
You know, it's, it's somewhere

963
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,680
where it's, you know, it's close
to the infrastructure.

964
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,840
They can, you know, if they when
they do start the mine, it's not

965
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,880
going to be too far away that
they could get it up, You know,

966
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,440
they, they could mine the thing,
you know, pretty much from

967
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,240
surface and, and, and get into
that project quite, quite

968
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:30,680
quickly.
So I think that's definitely a a

969
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,720
quality, a high quality lithium
developer.

970
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:40,880
Ricky, you made a bold non
consensus prediction when we

971
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,880
spoke with you for our finding
predictions and that was that

972
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,680
Darren Strala would become more
popular than the Mark Clark and

973
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,640
Bill Beaman and and Raleigh
Finlayson combined.

974
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:53,920
So I've got to I.
Think I went over to the skate

975
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,680
tips on the bond.
You made a point, even if it was

976
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:02,560
a bit of my own, but you still
is a high conviction on the on

977
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:03,720
the turn around story of
Bellevue.

978
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,320
Yeah, I think, I think he's
doing a good job.

979
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,080
You know, like when we, we, we
spoke, it was early December and

980
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,760
I, I think the share price has
done pretty well since then and

981
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,440
it's gone up.
And I think there's, you know,

982
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,680
they're, they're, they're
executing on the plan that

983
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,920
they've, you know, revised that
plan right back from what, from

984
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,040
where it was to, to, to where it
is today.

985
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,960
Yeah, they, they, you know, it
was too, too ambitious.

986
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,960
There's no doubt about that.
And they were probably a bit

987
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,840
aggressive in terms of, you
know, trying to achieve that

988
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,440
for, for too long.
But now they've reset the plan,

989
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,200
raise the capital, they've put
the infrastructure in.

990
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,920
And what I really like about it
is they're now moving into the

991
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,120
better parts of the deposit and
they're actually mining that

992
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,400
the, the best parts.
Whereas when they had the

993
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,760
trouble, they didn't have the
capital.

994
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,960
So rather than putting the money
that declined development down

995
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,320
and getting into the best pass,
I went to rent a parts of the,

996
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,720
the, the old mine and tried to
cherry pick some of that out.

997
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,160
And that's where they ran into
problem with, with, you know,

998
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,920
those old Stopes at the, at the,
at the ends of some of the, the,

999
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,840
these loads, the strike extent
of the load.

1000
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:14,960
That's where, you know, it
pinched out a little bit earlier

1001
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:16,920
or there was a little fault
there that they didn't know

1002
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,680
about and it didn't, didn't
deliver the grade or the, the,

1003
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,680
the tons.
So, so I think, I think they're

1004
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,640
getting better.
Probably what, what, what

1005
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,880
worries me a little bit is, you
know, the stockpiles are quite

1006
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,680
low that, you know, there's not
a lot of breathing room in that.

1007
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:37,120
So it's not, it's not a high
conviction call, but it's, you

1008
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,440
know, something that we, we
think there's definitely risk

1009
00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:42,840
around there.
But you know, that's where the,

1010
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,960
the, the opportunity is.
But they've paid out the, the,

1011
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,920
the hedge.
The hedge book is, you know,

1012
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,080
they're pretty much hedge, hedge
free for six months and and

1013
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,320
then, you know, so if they do
have some problems, they're not

1014
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,160
going to get called on that,
that hedge in, in, you know,

1015
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,960
this quarter or the next one.
So they're paying down that

1016
00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:03,440
hedge for, you know, their cost
base will come up like everyone

1017
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:04,640
else.
But you know, the really good

1018
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,000
thing is the, I think someone
was telling me it was like 90%

1019
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,600
of the the energy costs is all
energy is on, on renewables.

1020
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,560
So, so yes, they still use
diesel, but it's not a big part

1021
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:22,040
of not as big a part of the of
the cost basis a lot of mines.

1022
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,480
So they, they, they they're
actually reasoning well

1023
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,560
positioned that the cost base
won't be as impacted as some of

1024
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:33,560
the other miners as we go
through this big escalation in

1025
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:38,280
diesel price.
So, so the, the availability of

1026
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,280
diesel will be a challenge for
them as it is for everyone.

1027
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,080
But you know, if they do have a
challenge, you know, that

1028
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,920
stockpile is probably the thing
to, to, to, to be mindful of.

1029
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:52,360
But if they can keep getting
diesel that I think they'll come

1030
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:58,280
out and be in a good position.
So yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll stick

1031
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,600
with my prediction that that
that Darren could be the hero by

1032
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,000
the end of the year, but fingers
crossed.

1033
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,920
If we speak in one year's time,
do you think they're still a

1034
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,320
stand alone entity or do you
think they'll have been scooped

1035
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,000
up?
Yeah, good question.

1036
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,680
I, I think there is, yeah.
We, we usually don't worry too

1037
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,120
much about M&A because I, I
always get it wrong.

1038
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,400
But I think that's, you know,
that that is a prime candidate

1039
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:24,480
for it.
Just in terms of where the

1040
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:28,040
valuation is that if you can see
them start to get into, you

1041
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:33,440
know, good part, if they string
together the, the next 3/4 are

1042
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,800
good, then I think it's
definitely on the cards because

1043
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:41,400
that that, that that operation
sits in a multi asset mine

1044
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,880
because it's going to be
variable that there's always

1045
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,320
going to be a a great quarter,
there's going to be a bad

1046
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,200
quarter and two that are hard to
predict.

1047
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,600
But you can sort of hide that in
a, a, a multi mine company and A

1048
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,760
and A and a continue to perform
well.

1049
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,560
But as a a single asset company
that the market is just laser

1050
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,720
focused and just doesn't like,
excuse me, just doesn't like

1051
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:05,200
any, any bad news.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1052
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,840
Rick, the last one I want to
talk to you about is nickel.

1053
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,440
Nickel is what you had as your
worst performing commodity for

1054
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,240
2026.
But I think we're starting to

1055
00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:18,600
see all the, all the rumblings
of the, the lower end of the,

1056
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,800
the commodity cycle.
Indonesia is turning the screws

1057
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,120
on the miners.
The, you know, these are

1058
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:27,880
latteridic mines, as you'd know
better than I do that in time

1059
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,680
they'll, they'll be further from
the, the mill of the plant,

1060
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,720
these sorts of things.
They'll work through the, the

1061
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:35,000
higher grade.
All the while the royalties are

1062
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:36,920
creeping up, the taxes are
creeping up.

1063
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,880
So I'd be curious to to hear how
you sort of see the the next,

1064
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,800
you know, the medium term of of
nickel playing out and what

1065
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,760
you're kind of looking for that
would get you excited to start

1066
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,320
picking up some names in that
space.

1067
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,880
Yeah, it's a good question.
Well, you know, I, I, I gave it

1068
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,720
the kiss of death.
But I'm, I'm, I'm quite open

1069
00:55:56,720 --> 00:55:59,440
about the fact that I've, I've
just about made a career out of

1070
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,120
eating my words.
So, so to walk back from my

1071
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,480
nickel call, but but wouldn't be
any problem for me at all.

1072
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,080
I'm, I'm, I'm quite happy to, to
acknowledge when I'm wrong.

1073
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,440
But but you know, all it takes
is, you know, that like you

1074
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,440
mentioned, JD, all it takes is
changing government policy and,

1075
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,720
and it can really up in the
game.

1076
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:20,160
And, and I think that's what
we're witnessing in, in in

1077
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,040
nickel right now.
So the way then I look about it

1078
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,400
as an investor is, you know,
comes back to, I was describing

1079
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,040
that wave early on.
You know, nickel's been through

1080
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,880
this Big Bear market.
How do you position for that?

1081
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:36,440
Well, you're actually best to be
positioned in those producers

1082
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,480
and there are not, not too many
out there.

1083
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,360
Nickel mines is probably the,
you know, the best way to to

1084
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:46,280
come in into that.
Now there are some really nice

1085
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,880
development projects like like
Centaurus, but you know, they

1086
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,320
require the capital to, to get
into, into production.

1087
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:57,840
And so, so my, my thinking is,
you know, you look for those

1088
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,480
producers and unfortunately
there's not, not too much choice

1089
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,720
in the, in the market for that,
But that's, that's really where

1090
00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:06,480
you want to be positioned
initially.

1091
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,160
And just see how, how it plays.
Because the, the, the flip side

1092
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:14,560
on, on, on government policy,
which is positive is, you know,

1093
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,160
they can change it or water it
down as well.

1094
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,800
And, and just as quickly as
you've got that uplift, you can

1095
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,360
have a, you can have a drop.
And you know, we've seen that

1096
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,040
time and time again.
You know, CSIRO is a really good

1097
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,800
example of that that, you know,
we talk about, you know, the US

1098
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,320
wanting to, I'm sure a lot of
this manufacturing base.

1099
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:33,920
So that's exactly what sore has
done.

1100
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,720
They've gone and built a plant
in, in Louisiana.

1101
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,920
They, they're, they're trying to
put that in into production.

1102
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,480
And then the, the Trump
administration says, oh,

1103
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,880
actually, we won't put the
tariffs as steep as we once

1104
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:48,920
thought on that.
And then, you know, Tesla, you

1105
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:52,560
can have a bit longer to, to,
to, to get through that

1106
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,280
commissioning and, and suddenly
that puts enormous working

1107
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,400
capital pressure on them.
So, so that, you know, the

1108
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:03,400
changes in government policy,
you can, can, really can benefit

1109
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,200
you, but that they can really
kneecap you at the same time.

1110
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:09,240
So, so I've still got a little
bit of caution around around

1111
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:14,080
that because at the end of the
day, for Nicholas, I don't see

1112
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,800
Indonesia as as as big a
geopolitical concern as, say,

1113
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,800
China to it.
So if, if, if, if measures to

1114
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,240
continue dominating the
production, I don't think the

1115
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,360
world be too concerned about
that even though a lot of that

1116
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:32,280
production is going to going to
China that you know, I don't, I

1117
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:37,920
don't see the that the concern.
So I'm still still neutral on

1118
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:39,680
it.
But we are watching it because

1119
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,280
you know as you mentioned JD, it
can turn very quickly and you've

1120
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,800
got to be positioned, got to be
ready and and understanding the

1121
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:50,880
market when it does.
I got my last one for you, Rick.

1122
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:57,040
Now imagine, imagine you could,
you could privatize any, any

1123
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,560
company on like you know, in
your investing universe at its

1124
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:04,120
current market cap.
And then, you know, go to go to

1125
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,520
sleep and wait for the boom in,
in that commodity or whatever.

1126
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,520
Like which like what?
What company would you choose to

1127
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,960
privatize at its existing market
cap today and wait for the

1128
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:16,080
opportune moment?
That's a great question.

1129
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:20,000
You know what I you know what as
an old favorite of mine would be

1130
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:24,680
meteoric, but that that you
know, that whole rare earth

1131
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:27,600
market.
The way I think about that is

1132
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,000
it's not the best quality
project in the world.

1133
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:32,880
You've got to have you've got to
be able to get into production

1134
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:37,520
quickly and, and if you can, you
have the right mix, which is the

1135
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:42,600
disprosive and turbium and and
meteoric is so much further

1136
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,640
advanced in terms of where it's
project is relative to anyone

1137
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:49,200
else in, in, in the market.
But it's one of the few that

1138
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,160
could actually get into
production quickly.

1139
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,040
Like a look at Arafura big
project, yes, they're talking

1140
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,480
about going to the rare earth
oxides.

1141
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:00,360
But yeah, the build on that and
then the commissioning time to

1142
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,920
to get through, to get into
production is just enormous on

1143
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,480
that thing, whereas.
Mid arc right now is actually

1144
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,920
got a pile plant that's going
the producing product.

1145
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,760
They could scale that up.
You know, the, the Brazilian

1146
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,920
government's really interested,
really interested in in, in this

1147
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,400
space because you know, they see
this is a a great opportunity

1148
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,800
not just for the mining, but but
also for the the downstream

1149
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:23,560
manufacturing that could sit
behind that.

1150
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,120
And they see that as
strategically really important

1151
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,080
to them.
I think the US government can

1152
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,360
recognize that, you know, this
is the material provider of

1153
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:35,160
dysprosium and turbium, which,
you know, for those who don't

1154
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,440
know, they're the rarest that
are really important in the high

1155
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:40,440
strength magnets that are
important for, you know,

1156
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,760
robotics and humanoids and
military applications.

1157
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:47,400
But you know, Linus and and MP
materials that they're actually

1158
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,760
producing very little of the of
the disposing of and turbium.

1159
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:56,280
So so you need a project like
meteorites got and you know,

1160
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:57,800
it's just been sitting under the
radar.

1161
01:00:57,800 --> 01:00:59,960
It's probably just been in that
valley of despair in the

1162
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,880
Lausanne curve that people have
sort of forgotten about it and

1163
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,320
had a few permitting challenges
that upset a few few

1164
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,360
shareholders and, and, and it's
really gone sideways.

1165
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:14,440
But I think, you know, it, it
that, that to me is the deepest

1166
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,720
value.
And, and, and if, you know, if

1167
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:20,000
they could get a, you know, a
bit of funding through a grant,

1168
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,680
whether it's from the Brazilian
government, the, the US

1169
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,680
government, whoever it is, if
they can get some money, get it

1170
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:30,720
in place, that's something that
I think could jump really

1171
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:32,840
quickly.
And then that would be really,

1172
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:37,640
really attractive to to to a
Linus or an MP or, or even a big

1173
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:42,760
chemicals company that's wanting
to get a world class asset in a

1174
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:48,000
good, good mining jurisdiction
and to really dominate, you

1175
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:49,920
know, that ex China part of the
market.

1176
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,920
That's a fascinating pick.
Really fascinating, Rick, as

1177
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:57,480
always, it's awesome chatting.
I look forward to checking in

1178
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,040
with you down the track just to
see how all these these names

1179
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:01,880
go.
But we've had a blast as always,

1180
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,120
so thanks for joining us.
Great.

1181
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:05,800
Thanks very much, guys.
Really enjoyed the chat.

1182
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:07,600
Thank you, Rick.
A massive thank you to our

1183
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:09,120
sponsors that make it all
possible.

1184
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:13,920
Trav, Exceed, Capital Metals
Hub, Sandvik Ground Support,

1185
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:16,760
Intralinks and Focus the
platform by Market Tech.

1186
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:18,160
Hoodoo.
Hoodoo.

1187
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,320
Now remember, I'm an idiot.
JD is an idiot.

1188
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:24,760
If you thought any of this was
anything other than

1189
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,360
entertainment, you're an idiot
and you need to read our

1190
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:27,880
disclaimer.