Massive Disruption Coming to the Mining & Investment World (Rusty and Brice)

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Let's get spiritual, boys.
I, I, I genuinely believe like

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for AI to me, what is it?
What's the most important thing

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in human history this is?
You cannot overstate how fucking

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mega what is going on it is to
humans.

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Our last invention.
Yeah, well, we're about to be

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the second most intelligent
species on the planet.

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We haven't seen anything like
this, not since World War 2.

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The the Cold War was nothing
compared to what this

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represents.
They have a very serious

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competitor and they're losing.
Roydo Money Miners what a what a

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what an intro Rusty Bryce, I'm
very excited to have both of you

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in a studio as we've got the the
dulcet tunes of stone Jesus,

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here come the robots.
A a timely suggestion, Rusty.

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I love it from you and the the
both of you are with us because

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you happen to have different
lenses on a topic.

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We're very keen to explore and I
reckon our, our warnings to be

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really keen to, to explore.
And, and that's, that's here

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come the robots.
I mean, we're, we're, we're

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looking at the forefront of some
really big kind of technological

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changes happening.
And these changes, they happen

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in an exponential way.
And before you know it, you

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know, the universe looks pretty
different as a result of that.

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The, our, our world looks pretty
different.

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Mining, mining looks different.
Mining investment landscape

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looks different.
So there's three themes that

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we're, we're going to explore.
These are three giant growth

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megatrends in that tech space.
And we're going to just try and

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think like 15 years out from
now, think AI, robotics and

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compute efficiency.
Those are the three kind of

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growth mega trends going to have
a drastic impact on, on all

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parts of our life.
And I think we're going to try

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and explore the implications of
that to, to, to the, the world

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that, you know, we, we operate
in being the, the mining space

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and the, the investment side.
Both Rusty you and Bryce next to

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us have been thinking about this
from yet respective lenses.

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Thank you so much for joining
us.

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Thanks for having us.
Yeah, cheers mate.

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I should say should clarify for
the audience.

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Don't know either of you, Rusty,
You are a, you know, a legend in

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the in the resource fund
management game with with with

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performance that makes everyone
kind of just be envious.

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Well, that's 50 bucks well
spent.

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And you know, one thing I pick
up having known you for, for the

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last couple of years is you're,
you're always thinking big

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thematics ahead.
You're trying to kind of be

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early to the, to the trends and
then you kind of work, work

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backwards with your portfolio
allocation.

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And I know you've been thinking
about, about these things a lot.

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And so we've, we're hoping to
couple you with, with Bryce, who

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comes at it from a different
perspective, not the funds

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management space, but instead,
you know, he, he's armed and an

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entrepreneur in the mining kind
of AI and technology space.

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But strangely is also fit for
the conversation because you've

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got, you've got, you've had
experience in the robotics,

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humanoid robotic side too, with,
you know, a previous iteration

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of you if you start up Bryce.
So both of you, I think we're

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going to hope you bounce off
each other and explore some of

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these topics, the real world.
Yeah, you're in the real world.

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Yeah, well, look, when we
started AI mining, that was

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definitely a non consensus call.
That was a bad idea pre 2016,

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but now it's all the rage and
it's a popular thing.

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So yeah, non consensus calls is
the way to do it right?

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Get after it.
Do they even call it AI in

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mining back then?
Well, yes, it was, it was, yeah,

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data science was really,
especially because we like to

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work with geologists.
And so for them, a lot of this

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stuff was made in the 80s.
This wasn't new at all.

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And so the real innovation was
the compute, right?

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It actually wasn't AI science.
And we we kind of point to an

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innovation in 2016 where Alexnet
was the first machine learning

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neural network to be ported onto
a graphics compute card.

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So making it work on a GPU
instantly made it 250 times more

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compute power applied to the
problem, and from there it's

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scaled out of control.
And NVIDIA is what it is now

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because you know, that's the
most efficient way.

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So whilst we can talk about
software improvements in AI

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tech, right, like the the
hardware, the compute is a

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massive part of it too.
You don't get the software

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without hardware.
We we should just define some

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terms just to start with.
Kind of big picture.

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What?
What the fuck do we mean by AI?

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Well, I think it means it means
a lot of things for different

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contexts.
So you, I think you're right,

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you could really simply just
call AIA non linear multivariate

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model, right?
It's it's not linear, it's not

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rigid.
And neural networks are really

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common, but LLMS use a
transformer architecture, which

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is kind of different.
And in the past, there's a lot

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of architectures that have
become not popular now, right?

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Like graph networks and LSTMS
used to be all these different

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options.
So really as far as we see it

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from a commercial landscape and
when we're looking for change, I

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think the way to look at it is
that there is now a new level of

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software algorithms that can
alley vast compute power to our

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problems.
And so part of our thinking

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needs to be about what are these
long standing problems that

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maybe we've even forgot the
problems and we've just so used

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to mitigating and working around
those things that now we can

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revisit with this step change in
application of compute power.

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I found myself doing that in my
own head with with AI, just

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things I've parked.
I'm like, oh, that's too hard.

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Oh no, I need to come back to
that.

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Because you can think about it
differently.

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I mean, I think, like, for Full
disclosure, I'm a fool layman,

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right?
This is not my area of

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expertise.
It fascinates me enormously.

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And I hope this is like the
first of many chats that you

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guys do on it because I think
this is the most Seminole thing

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we've all seen in our lives.
I genuinely believe, like for

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AI, to me, what is it?
It's the most important thing in

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human history.
This is you cannot overstate how

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fucking mega what is going on it
is to humans.

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Our last invention.
It, it, it.

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Yeah.
Well, we're about to be the

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second most intelligent species
on the planet, and that has

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never that.
For all of modern human history,

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that has not been the case.
So.

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That we know of.
Yeah, well, that we know of.

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Yeah, that probably another.
Another track, another show.

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Aliens.
At the end, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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yeah, yeah.
When so so AI to me is like just

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absolutely the most important
topic you can consider right now

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as a business person in your
personal life that you can't

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understate how mega it is to to
get with the program.

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It there will be two types of
people.

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I think in in, you know, as
short a time frames, like maybe

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three to five years.
There'll be those that worked

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out how to utilize AI and you
know, empowered themselves in a

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vertical in that sense.
So from underneath themselves,

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they then multiplied out there
capacity to do things.

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And then there'll be those that
didn't and those that didn't

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will, will will by and large be
displaced and they'll have an

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opportunity to perhaps catch up,
but you'll be a long way behind

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individuals that did.
And I'd and I'd and I think to

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think about this, it's it's a
non linear sort of thing.

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Like I, I think the example I
gave before and it's probably a

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poor one, but I'll, I'll try it
again.

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You know, if your mate starts
learning French a year before

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you, you can start a year later.
You know, there's things you can

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do to catch up.
It's you know, you're, you're

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set distance behind him.
It's another human being him.

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It's another human being.
You know, you generally learn at

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a similar pace, etcetera.
It's pretty fixed.

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It's different in AI, the whole
thing.

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If you if you make this work,
the ramifications are

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exponential.
You can have million people

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working underneath an individual
mind and so the sooner you get

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with that, the the better
because the the the gap from you

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to another human being in terms
of your effective output is

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going to be so fucking big.
Put in a grounded camp to get

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maximum human output on your on
your mind site.

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Sorry to interrupt mate.
Check out check out this bloody

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accommodation expansion and and
Wellness centre they've put

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together for FM G mate, I'll
tell you what, it's even making

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me would not want to drink and
get healthier.

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We're block got it bloody got
yoga mats nice stone.

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The just good quotes on the wall
of friggin look at the look at

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the grass.
Look at the gym mate this.

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Work out.
There mate, I want to get

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healthy on a mind site buddy.
How good is that?

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Facilitated by grounded mate.
They don't even need AI.

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They are the AI of
accommodation.

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Accommodation.
Abuse.

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Intelligence AI.
Let's get back to it.

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So that that's a really well
explored philosophy called an

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intelligence explosion.
And whilst you can definitely

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look at what would happen if AI
was able to iteratively improve

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itself, which is one of the
things open AI is doing at the

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moment with chat CPT.
But we also don't actually know

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what the spectrum of
intelligence looks like, right?

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You can look at our human
intelligence compared to a

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chicken and say is, is an AI
going to be that much more

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intelligent than us?
But it absolutely is

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exponential, and we can't really
even fathom what 1000 times more

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intelligent really means.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that, yeah,

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there's some fascinating, but I
mean, arguably depends on how

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you measure intelligence.
Arguably there's in many ways

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it's past most of us already.
I think someone asked a question

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like what is the most unique
thing about humans or I can't

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remember exactly how it's framed
and it's sort of spat out that

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we're all self domesticated.
We we self domesticate

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ourselves.
I was like, Oh my God, that's so

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insightful.
I can't imagine a human being

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ever actually coming up with
that level of reflection.

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So yeah, I don't know.
It depends on how you measure

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it.
Arguably it's it's already

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passed a lot of us.
And the reality is it's going to

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get to a level very quickly in
every field of endeavour where

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it's as good as the best humans.
On Earth, yeah.

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So artificial super intelligence
is a is a good way to define

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that, right.
And you know, you can talk to a

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lot of LLMS at the moment where
if you're asking narrow in the

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field, you kind of are getting
masters to PhD level responses.

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But the next step of AGI is
about that overlap of having a

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PhD in everything and what can
you put together that these

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individual experts never could.
So, yeah, like I, I think that

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that is going to be upon us
before we know it.

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So a horizon of 15 years is a
probably a really great one to

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speculate over.
Yeah.

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The interesting development I
think with AI is like what is

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the human interface look like?
No doubt that will evolve.

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No doubt there will be
components of the human

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interface today that also
disappear as as AI gets to

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manage AI with agency and
derivatives thereof.

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But as far as I've sort of
understood it, the human lens,

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certainly here and now, it's
absolutely required.

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AI is not perfect.
It makes lots of mistakes.

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You need to keep guiding it.
And so we're going to go through

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this evolution of the human and
what value we bring to the table

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with how to manage AI like that.
I think that's going to be the

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measure of how much utility you
as a person has in the future is

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how well you can manage AI.
Yeah, and.

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And not just manage, but grow
personally with it and use it to

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augment your capability.
Augmentation is the right word.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is a.

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This is a, a point you make
price and that's the, you know,

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the, the AI we, we, we, we all
think of when we had the word AI

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is our, our interface with, with
LLMS at this point, because

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that's been like incredibly
useful tool for anyone doing any

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sort of research and trying to
disseminate their, their

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thoughts in a coherent way that
people can explore quickly.

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But it's self improving, like
you say, Ross, And and because

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it's self improving, what
industries are most vulnerable

224
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:29,160
to disruption?
Look, I think there are some

225
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,120
really core skills to being a
human and and having

226
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:38,640
personality, and I like to map
those out as intuition,

227
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:44,280
hospitality and artistic
expression, right?

228
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,840
Those are things that are
uniquely human and it art isn't

229
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,600
necessarily like songs or or
painting, right?

230
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,680
I think your finance work
picking junior miners, that's an

231
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:55,680
art, right?
And definitely.

232
00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:01,720
More out than song, we all know.
That so those elements, I think

233
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,080
are intrinsically human roles,
but there's a lot of things that

234
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,840
are actually really much better
for machines and, and those are

235
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,880
things that are monotonous,
highly repetitive things that

236
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,320
need to be very precise, right.
These shaky hands are, are only

237
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,960
good for so much and dangerous,
right.

238
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,560
If, if we can remove a human
from a dangerous role, then

239
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:24,000
that's a win all round.
So you'll find that there's this

240
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,280
really good overlap of those
skills and, and that really is,

241
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,800
I think where AI is going to
augment a lot of people, right?

242
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,880
And where a human can still have
their intuition.

243
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,120
Where do I wanna dig?
Where does that drill hole go,

244
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,960
right?
What political region do I feel

245
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,960
like I can handle?
And you know, take those

246
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,000
overwhelming driving
preferences, the completion

247
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,840
right is going to be quite
monotonous to go through that

248
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,480
process where you want to be
precise, avoid dangerous work.

249
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,720
You can see robotics and AI
actually allowing a lot of

250
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,000
people this freedom to move
forward.

251
00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,520
But what that means for capital
structures and how you find a

252
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,840
lot of this stuff I.
Think I think the answer to that

253
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,480
question is actually everything.
Like literally fucking

254
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,880
everything.
Every single thing is pretty

255
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,400
much going to be impacted by by
AI and and and then it's like

256
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,000
really just like a hit list of
what comes first.

257
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,200
And I think mining and why the
discussion today is so pertinent

258
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:24,320
is mining makes sense as one of
the priority places to go,

259
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,920
right, Because the human
interface in mining is high risk

260
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,600
and high cost.
So and and it is quite

261
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,080
monotonous.
Yeah, labour intensive or or you

262
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,520
know, Yeah, yeah, I guess so.
Yeah.

263
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:40,840
Load.
Load to plan, right?

264
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,160
Dig to these lines every time.
That's the job.

265
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,360
Yeah, there's, it's certainly,
it's very well suited to

266
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,840
adoption there, particularly
around cost and risk.

267
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,320
And I think if you're a board
and you're sitting there and

268
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,520
you're, you know, we know how
risk averse that all is, there's

269
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,160
personal liability etcetera.
If you've got a, a place where

270
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,800
you can choose between a machine
versus putting a human at risk,

271
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,720
you're immediately going to move
to the machine as soon as

272
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,200
there's any sort of cost parity
or close enough.

273
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,400
And on top of that, as soon as
there's an economic incentive,

274
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,080
it's not just parity.
It's now like, oh, well,

275
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,120
actually this will work much
more efficiently then.

276
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,560
I think it's like a no brainer.
And, and, and the way you

277
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,080
started the chat today is, is
the key thing because there's

278
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:23,760
these three things happening at
once.

279
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,400
We've got AI evolving at this
rapid rate.

280
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,760
We've got processing power, one
of a better word as I understand

281
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:37,640
it, evolving at this rapid rate,
plus a whole different landscape

282
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:42,760
in processing capacity alongside
it, which is quantum, which is a

283
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,920
whole nother thing, not even a
progression.

284
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:50,120
It's a whole universe different.
And with those two things are

285
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,760
processing capacity and AI, you
then those are already happening

286
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,440
and they're being applied in the
digital realm.

287
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:02,160
Those will then transfer and
morph into the physical realm

288
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,480
and they're already happening.
So they're already happening

289
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:09,280
with robotics, but we'll see
humanoid robotics applying those

290
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,040
two and then all of this
transfers across to the

291
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,920
physical.
And that's when I think it gets

292
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:21,040
really real for mining, because
that's when you say, well, what,

293
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,960
you know, if particularly like
as an underground ore body, for

294
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,200
example, if I can send machines
in to do what humans were doing,

295
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:33,040
I don't have to run vent or, you
know, say, say air and cooling.

296
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,600
And I don't, I don't need all
the stabilisation that I

297
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,200
currently require because, OK,
if I detonate 100 grams worth of

298
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,600
robots, who gives a shit?
You know, if I kill a human, it

299
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,280
matters.
So suddenly those risk

300
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,560
tolerances against the cost of
ground support and all of those

301
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:54,000
things, CapEx on your, on your,
your, your, your front end camps

302
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,200
and all the rest of it, fly in,
fly out, HR, IR, all of these

303
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,760
things lighting you don't you
know these things operate in the

304
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,000
dark, so dark.
Minds, Yeah.

305
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,599
There will be dark minds.
There's already dark factories.

306
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,440
So we're seeing those in China,
like pretty amazing, pretty

307
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,400
dystopian.
But why, You know, lights are a

308
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,599
human necessity.
They're not a these things don't

309
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:18,839
they don't see, not with, not
with vision like us, I think.

310
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:21,680
That the other part to dark
minds in the context of

311
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,000
underground, right, is, you
know, something you guys have

312
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,440
covered a lot recently is that
we're running out of resources

313
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,040
at the surface, right?
We've kind of found all at least

314
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,520
the tier one big long life
assets and now we're forced to

315
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,800
explore deeper and deeper
underground.

316
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:40,520
So I think 1 angle that this may
manifest in, in that 15 year

317
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,200
horizon is that the economics
have to change.

318
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,840
The reason we can't even explore
at that depth is because if you

319
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,640
find something the cost of
ventilation, that deep transfer

320
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,200
haulage, it, it all starts to
just exponentially get more

321
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,200
expensive that you go.
So if you're able to remove

322
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,280
ventilation immediately from the
mine designing CapEx structure,

323
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,360
big cost remove, right?
Remove all of the, the safety,

324
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:09,760
the shelters, the the O2 sensors
and the camps right now all of a

325
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,160
sudden when you're doing that DF
study, right, you can actually

326
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:17,040
have a completely different
sustaining cost.

327
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:20,320
And so then you throw on these
new technologies.

328
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,040
So Muon sensing is a really big
one in underground exploration

329
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,280
at the moment.
It just penetrates further and

330
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,080
sees in a more cost effective
manner is a simple description.

331
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,600
But I, I think that these are
the kind of things that are

332
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,640
going to shape mines that will
be different.

333
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,600
And in a 15 year horizon, I
don't expect that's to what the

334
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,800
mining industry will look like,
but I do expect there to be a

335
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,400
couple innovators out there that
have actually got at least one

336
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,760
dark underground mine working
like that.

337
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,280
I.
Reckon it's going to be much

338
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,080
sooner.
Alright, it's going to, it's,

339
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,560
it's, it's coming so fucking
rapid.

340
00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,520
Like, so I think this is going
to blow everyone's brains apart

341
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,840
in the next three years.
Like so rapid.

342
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:07,600
I mean, Elon's talking and I
think Elon is a guy you have to

343
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,200
listen to, right?
He, he, I think he's the most

344
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,200
important human being.
That's, you know, in my

345
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,240
lifetime, the things he's doing
with governance and, and the

346
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,040
like a whole different topic of
conversation.

347
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,520
But I absolutely, this is a
human.

348
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,520
You have to pay attention to his
ability to think forward is

349
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,080
there's no one else on earth
like him.

350
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,240
And and he is saying 90% of
everything, every good, every

351
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,000
service is fundamentally
changing in terms of a cost

352
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,200
structure, like almost to the
point of there's a front end,

353
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,640
you know, a humanoid has a CapEx
component and ongoing

354
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,640
maintenance and an energy cost
and that's it.

355
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:49,440
So like, once you apply that to
everything you make, do you know

356
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,800
any product, any service saying
90% of things are effectively

357
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,520
nothing, they don't cost much.
Now that's a fucking mind

358
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,440
blowing place to go.
And I think it's happening.

359
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,200
It's going to happen far quicker
than we than we realized.

360
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,720
These aren't that expensive to
build.

361
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:08,000
And, and, and that's the bit to
watch.

362
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,560
It's the it's the robotics.
Because the AI and the the, the

363
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,960
processing power, I don't I
don't think there's any argument

364
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,640
on that, that that is it.
It's right in front of you every

365
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:18,280
week.
It's all.

366
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,120
Theoretically possible today,
right?

367
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:22,520
But I guess the the mining
industry has kind of got a

368
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,880
reputation for not adopting
technology quickly, right?

369
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,840
Like, you know, you, you kind of
expect an oil and gas company

370
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,040
will give that a go before a
mining company would.

371
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:34,200
But I absolutely agree with you
on the theoretical level.

372
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,480
I don't think there's many
blockers that mean it's not

373
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,880
possible today.
So what's the catalyst for this

374
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:39,480
to happen?
It'll be.

375
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,040
The board, it's the board and
it's risk, so it'll be it.

376
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,680
So there's carrot and there's
stick.

377
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,920
And yes, mining companies
respond much more to stick than

378
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,400
they do carrot.
No one wants to take a risk.

379
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,520
It's a big, cumbersome, poorly
run, generally speaking,

380
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:59,040
bureaucratic organisations.
And you know, why take a risk if

381
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,080
it's only going to result in you
losing your job if it doesn't

382
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,600
work and, you know, no praise if
it does type of thing.

383
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,720
That's kind of the mentality in
big bureaucracies.

384
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,480
And, and, and I think where
that'll change though is at the

385
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,880
board level when they sit down
and they read a board paper that

386
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,480
says I have to choose between
sending a human underground to

387
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,920
do that or a humanoid.
How can you justify something

388
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,800
that is cheaper, more effective,
and critically doesn't put

389
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,600
anyone's life at risk?
That is the rub.

390
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,920
And that is where I think we
will see this move quickly.

391
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,840
Just a quick one, Rusty.
Which country does it happen in

392
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,280
first?
The highest cost countries, the

393
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,000
most so Australia, Canada,
wherever your labor rates are

394
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,640
highest and wherever your
regulations and how it relates

395
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,840
to you as a director in your
personal liability is is most

396
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,280
extreme.
So yeah, Australia.

397
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,600
In that right, we we're
positioned pretty well both for

398
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,280
the innovation.
As a country, we're doing

399
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,200
everything possible to be as
unfucking competitive as we can

400
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,560
right now.
Like the the federal government,

401
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,800
the state, you name it, right,
They are doing everything under

402
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,760
the sun to make us as
uncompetitive as possible.

403
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,360
With energy policy, IR policy.
It is.

404
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,880
It is mind blowing how bad we
are going.

405
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:20,960
And don't even start about
native title and and the voice

406
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,960
and these these types of things.
Thank God we dodged those

407
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,280
bullets.
But but we are heading

408
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,320
absolutely the wrong way on
every metric.

409
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:33,000
This will be an antidote to some
of that in in first world mining

410
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,480
and and fuck do we need it.
Let's I just want to we're

411
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,240
getting real like futuristic
here.

412
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,880
What is this?
What is a mine 15 years from

413
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,000
now?
Like look like, what are we?

414
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,240
So it's a dark mine you think is
a this is a possibility.

415
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,440
Humans don't even need to be
there.

416
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,440
Couldn't be anywhere near the
face well.

417
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,880
For underground absolutely
right, so surface mining open

418
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,320
cut mines have a really good
level of autonomy going right

419
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,840
like you can see all the tier
ones have basically got their

420
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,600
haul trucks driving around on
them on their own.

421
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,000
And even then the the light
vehicles have amazing collision

422
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,680
avoidance tech, which is all the
kind of stuff you want to see in

423
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,440
our current state.
But even when that gets to full

424
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,760
autonomy, the design of open cut
mines doesn't really change,

425
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,640
right?
Like it's still quite, it's,

426
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,920
that's the way it is.
So yeah, that the opportunity I

427
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,560
think in surface mining is
really going to be about the

428
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,360
current metal coal factor.
So one of these problems that I

429
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,280
think the industry kind of
forgets about is that when you

430
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,000
look at what's in the reserve
and what's actually making it

431
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,040
into the mill, right?
Not even talking about

432
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,280
processing efficiency
downstream, there's a big gap

433
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,920
that goes missing and people
have those contingency factors

434
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,640
even built into, you know, PFS
studies that they pitch at PDAC

435
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,200
because they know that's what
they've seen in their career.

436
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,880
So as we start to reassess some
of these massive problems, the

437
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,200
industry has just been
mitigating, right?

438
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,160
I I can see the metal core
factor converging to almost

439
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,800
exactly what's in the reserve is
actually making it out the other

440
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,120
side of the plant.
And so that that is really where

441
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:15,600
surface mining's going to go.
And you know, the OEMs in terms

442
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,760
of that automation have got to
make that cost accessible to the

443
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,440
Tier 2 and three smaller miners
that can't afford that big CapEx

444
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,760
layout.
So that that is a big part of

445
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,920
where the capital structure
coming back to your key point,

446
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,000
right, it's, it's all about
access to capital and cost

447
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,520
effective capital, yeah.
For sure, yeah.

448
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,760
It's going to be fascinating who
wins, who who like it's, it's,

449
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,680
it's all relativity, right, As
to who's a winner and who's a

450
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,680
loser.
And yeah, I'd agree with you.

451
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,800
Like the, and we're all guessing
at the moment, right?

452
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,040
Like this is guesswork at best.
Speculation.

453
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,480
It's speculation.
So but the, yeah, the marginal

454
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,000
return feels like underground.
You're going to get a lot, lot

455
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,920
more dividend than than, you
know, squeezing the lemon in

456
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,160
something that's already big and
semi autonomous and low labor

457
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,400
per unit moved from a tonnage
perspective, you know, with your

458
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,760
big open cuts feels like less
juice to squeeze on that lemon.

459
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,240
So yeah, for sure, it feels like
underground.

460
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,920
It's going to be so fascinating
watching how this plays out,

461
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,320
right?
Because like for physical metal

462
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,480
prices, do they go up or down?
I think there's a debate about

463
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,960
that, like depends on how fast
this all comes in.

464
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,000
There's a lot of deflationary
factors at play here around the

465
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,240
cost.
And and I think if you just step

466
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,000
right back and go big pitch, if
you take what Elon's saying as

467
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,120
as correct, that 90% of
everything goods and services

468
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:39,840
becomes far cheaper, then humans
have a great history of just

469
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,560
consuming more, right?
I would almost guarantee that is

470
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,400
going to mean we consume more.
That's going to mean we need

471
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,800
more inputs And and so we're
going to need more raw materials

472
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,120
what the cost of producing them.
Those should, theoretically.

473
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:01,520
Drop but the.
Margin made should stay the same

474
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,560
because at any given point in
time you need an incentive price

475
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,520
off the cost so that the cost
and the, the, the realized

476
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,560
price, the costs aren't the key
factors.

477
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,680
It's the margin, it's the
incentive margin.

478
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:17,960
So I've been thinking about this
because it's like, oh, do you

479
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,400
buy physical commodities?
I'm not sure about that.

480
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,600
Like I don't, I don't know that
that plays out that well.

481
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,960
The history.
Of of technological innovation

482
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,880
or productivity improvements in
mining just makes more ore

483
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,360
economic we've had we've.
Had 100 years of deflation in,

484
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:36,440
in, in, in commodities, that's
the reality.

485
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,920
And I think that continues in
real terms, right?

486
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,320
Inflation adjusted and I think
that continues and, but, but

487
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,400
what does it mean?
Something's worth in the ground?

488
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,800
If you think of something, what
something's worth in the ground

489
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,040
is a function of the margin that
it will attain when you pull it

490
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,840
out.
That margin by and large has to

491
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,600
stay somewhat constant.
You know, there'll be, there's

492
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,880
always commodity price swings,
but in in order to get it out of

493
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,720
the ground, there always has to
be that margin, whether it's a

494
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:09,360
15% ROI, whatever the number is.
So the value of that ore body

495
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:12,440
shouldn't move too much.
I'm still trying to unless

496
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,200
there's.
That change between open pit and

497
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,960
underground, right, If
underground improves on a cost

498
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,720
basis, like I said as a.
At a relative level, yeah, as as

499
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,760
opposed to absolutely and those.
Ones become more cost

500
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,720
competitive because that's.
That's how a lot of pit design

501
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,600
works at the moment, right where
you look at a resource and your

502
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,000
ideal is that it's it's a
massive open cut mine, because

503
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,120
typically that's where your
scale will allow the lowest all

504
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,600
in sustaining cost.
But if it's just that little bit

505
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,640
below the surface, that's that's
not an option.

506
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,120
And you've got this kind of like
hybrid of, well, we'll do a

507
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,480
small pit and then a portal, and
then we'll make it underground.

508
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,040
Or if it's completely
underground, then it's portal

509
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,920
from day one.
But that's all an economic

510
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,560
decision making factor, right?
If the cost of moving rock

511
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,480
changes, then all those shapes
and the distances of depth,

512
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,960
depth of the ore defines that
design and the effective all in

513
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,480
sustaining cost you can achieve.
And it's like, what are the

514
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,400
constraints in underground
mining?

515
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,400
Often it's how many interactions
are you having?

516
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,320
What's the event?
All of those things kind of

517
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,560
disappear in a world where it's,
yeah, automated and robotic, I

518
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,080
think.
So I think they'll probably come

519
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,960
in and out of your little
infrastructure, you know, you

520
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,520
more efficiently, you know I.
One of the pretty good, but

521
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:26,280
we're not.
We're not.

522
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:30,320
I mean, machines can do a lot of
this stuff a lot better than us.

523
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,600
Yeah, I would have thought
they're going to, you know,

524
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,040
going to work it out what I
like.

525
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,000
About your ad point right, is
one of the other pit design

526
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,040
techs we're seeing, which is
less robotics and more just

527
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:47,040
actual the design of your
haulage fleet is this ultra

528
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,120
light class right?
So a lot of open cut mining went

529
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,920
to ultra heavy class right.
You see these 400 ton capacity

530
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,000
trucks hauling or and it's it's
amazing because you've only got

531
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,000
so many drivers, but you know,
if you've only got three of

532
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,680
those trucks and one goes down,
you've just plus 33% of your

533
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,760
capacity.
Whereas in an ultralight

534
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,600
paradigm, imagine you've got 50
cyber trucks, right?

535
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,720
And the cyber trucks all have
their own tonnage equivalent.

536
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,280
Couldn't agree more that when
one of them breaks down, it

537
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,040
barely affects your capacity,
right?

538
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,880
Look, look.
At look at the changing

539
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,920
landscape in warfare over the
last three years or whatever

540
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,320
it's been now we've we've, we've
Ukan and Russia, right?

541
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,040
All of it has gone micronized.
Everything's gotten smaller.

542
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,360
Everything's gone to drone tech.
So it's going to be small,

543
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,320
lightweight, you know, look at
the insect world and how it

544
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,600
operates.
I think this is where we, we end

545
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:39,200
up.
This is you.

546
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,160
It'll be once you pull the human
out of it as a as a necessary

547
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,400
input, then I think you can
reshape how you think about

548
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,040
things quite dramatically, yeah.
The the war equation is also

549
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,200
quite troubling, especially if
we're talking 15 years in the

550
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,360
future, right?
I think to to keep it on the

551
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,000
tech end of this discussion,
right, You guys are put in your

552
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,000
newsletter we as acquisition of
Micromine.

553
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000
Like that was great to see you
guys talking about the mining

554
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,920
tech space.
But I'm not sure if you saw, but

555
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,040
Microwind actually tried to sell
in the past recently to Aspen

556
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,600
Tech and that deal was in the
way.

557
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,680
Yeah, that deal was, you know,
official as far as the party's

558
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,280
concerned.
It was at the governance stage.

559
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,080
But the sanction phrasing is is
about anything that could

560
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,560
support military activity and
obviously mining they just look

561
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,640
at that and they go, yeah,
that's sanctioned.

562
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,480
So it's really interesting to
now think of cybersecurity and

563
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:37,000
cyber attacks and where that
actually may lead in a tenser

564
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,840
geopolitical environment and the
fact that mining companies in

565
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,440
this 15 years in the future
paradigm, they may actually have

566
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,040
to regularly defend their
operating infrastructure.

567
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,400
So, you know, in our autonomous
ideal, I think remote operated

568
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,720
is still a big part of that.
And so these Irocs, whether it's

569
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,760
autonomous or remotely operated,
right, we're going to still have

570
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,320
to have these IROC centres.
And I love that so much.

571
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,840
Much of the Pilbara is operated
from the Perth CBD, right?

572
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,400
It's, it's showing how Perth is
such a pinnacle of mining tech

573
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,600
at the moment.
But when we evolve these new

574
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,600
texts like quantum, right?
Quantum technology may be seen

575
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,040
as a beautiful lock that's very
secure to encrypt everything and

576
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,160
keep your data safe, but it's
also a lock pick, right?

577
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,480
And the, the current RSA 256
hash encryption will just be

578
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,640
unfolded by quantum tech.
And so it's kind of this an arms

579
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,440
race when one person has a
working quantum computer,

580
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:34,880
everyone else has got to have
one.

581
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,560
And I think it'll be another one
of those overnight changes,

582
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:38,720
right?
Nothing's going to happen.

583
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,840
Quantum's kind of still with
fusion in that it's so many

584
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,480
years away that there'll be a
catalyst, right?

585
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,920
And it may be less than 15 years
before you'll see it come into

586
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:48,880
play.
Yeah.

587
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,200
It's such a yeah.
What's happening with Quantum is

588
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,480
like a whole nother level of
just mind explosion.

589
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,440
Like I still don't understand
it.

590
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,920
I still can't watch a YouTube
video that makes it

591
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,360
comprehensible to.
Me.

592
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,640
It's so you can ask plexity to
I've.

593
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,600
Tried, I've tried so many times.
Does that make it make it

594
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,000
simpler?
So, yeah, but you're right,

595
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,760
there's there's a whole realm
there to unlock even if quantum

596
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,480
doesn't happen.
I think all of this around, you

597
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,320
know, AI processing capacity and
and humanoid robotics, that's

598
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,720
all happening anyway.
Quantum's just another level of

599
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,880
things to consider, which is
pretty psychotic.

600
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,320
Yeah.
So, yeah, it there are so many

601
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:31,560
big picture things happening all
at once.

602
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,920
The, the, the geostrategic
elements to this are, are really

603
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,360
important to consider.
We're in a multipolar world now.

604
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,320
The everything that's going on
is about the USV, China, we

605
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,640
haven't seen anything like this,
not since World War 2.

606
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,360
The, the the Cold War was
nothing compared to what this

607
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,240
represents.
Russia, I don't, I don't think

608
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,920
was ever really a genuine
competitor to the US.

609
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,240
They have a very serious
competitor and they're losing in

610
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,920
many, many fields.
So, you know, this is a very

611
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,800
different landscape.
I would argue that the interface

612
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,760
with Russia and all those things
are actually derivatives of the

613
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,000
bigger picture play, which is
China V the US.

614
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,200
And there is clearly a
technology arms race that has

615
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,840
been declared.
War has been declared on that

616
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,120
front.
And I think on mineral security

617
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,480
and mineral processing, we are
going to see war declared as

618
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,600
well.
For for what?

619
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,240
A better words without trying to
be, you know, too hyperbolic

620
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:38,920
about it.
But the, the last, the, the, the

621
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:45,080
Western liberal sort of groups,
be it EU, be it, you know, the

622
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:51,080
Democrats within the USI think
they had a very, very poor

623
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,480
policy set to try and take this
on.

624
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,880
The IRA was one of the worst
named, worst executed policy

625
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,560
pieces ever.
It was like a trillion dollars.

626
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,560
And I think China went from like
65% of the refined lithium

627
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,320
market to 70% in the five years.
So it's like you fucking you

628
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,360
spent all that money and you and
you went backwards.

629
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,199
If, if, if the end game was to,
you know, pull China's market

630
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,239
share lower and, and I think
that is the end game.

631
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,480
And, and so I think we're going
to see a lot more radical policy

632
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,080
from, from the Trump side of
things.

633
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,320
And we're, and, and this, this
game is only just begun.

634
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:35,239
And, and that involves feedstock
security and processing and, and

635
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:40,360
how that plays out.
Like, you know, there's a lot on

636
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,440
that, but but I would argue
this, if you, if you, again, if

637
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,679
you big picture and you say 90%
of all goods and services

638
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:48,800
getting a lot cheaper, then
where are you going to put

639
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,840
capital to work?
Well, you're going to chase hard

640
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,080
assets, you're going to chase
property and you're going to

641
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,040
chase minerals.
I, I, I, I, I think you know,

642
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,560
and you're going to chase
collectibles, things that can't

643
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,280
be replicated.
Putting more capital to work

644
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,080
Chase and minerals that's a
bloody exploration playbook The

645
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,240
the K drill can facilitate for
you.

646
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,920
Absolutely it's bloody by
quality sample management, cost

647
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,320
per meter drill, budget
management and just the long

648
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:20,440
standing exploration drilling
expertise of Ryan O'Sullivan.

649
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:21,960
Ryan O'Sullivan, a man.
Himself.

650
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:24,960
Get him up to find some
minerals.

651
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:29,320
And you'd like?
You to riff, riff off if, if, if

652
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,600
AI and like robotics is in a lot
of ways as long as you have

653
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,880
access to it.
This is a tremendous equalizer

654
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,840
in terms of capability, right?
Yeah.

655
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,040
So what can actually
differentiate the prosperity of

656
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,880
a of a nation is the governance
settings to let that capability

657
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,960
prosper.
Ask the AI to build your lithium

658
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,440
refinery.
Ask the, you know, like what?

659
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:48,480
Yeah.
But as long as the governance

660
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,880
can enable.
Well, we'll ask AI to fix

661
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,640
governance for stars.
That'd be fucking right.

662
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,600
And I think that's what Togi's
already doing, right?

663
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,400
Like that, that arguably that's
what they're doing.

664
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,360
They're they're going
transparency, awareness, change

665
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,760
and and that has to happen.
I would argue the governance all

666
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,360
over the West, we are hopelessly
governed, hopeless and it's

667
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,720
getting worse.
And, and our competitive race

668
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:15,640
with China, bizarrely, we're
losing to a quasi communist

669
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,040
structure like that is
unfathomable from a western

670
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,200
mindset.
And, and we're having to eat a

671
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,680
lot of humble pie.
And I think there's a lot of

672
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,160
hubris in the West.
We're struggling to accept this,

673
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,160
to struggle to accept that we're
not the smartest guy in the room

674
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,360
and and they're a non democratic
system is beating us.

675
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,240
We have to get much better.
And I, I think what Elon and

676
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:42,160
Trump represent is the is the
one chance we have to get much

677
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,880
better and it better happen soon
or we are so far behind and the

678
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,400
EU is already fucking gone.
Like they're so far behind,

679
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,240
they're hopeless.
So sorry, sorry, I know that's a

680
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,360
a long way off topic on AI, but
no, no, that's a lot of these

681
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,760
issues are they're conflating
and they're all happening at the

682
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,000
same time.
And the chaos in markets that

683
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,680
we're seeing at the moment, I
think it's because everybody is

684
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,800
like, wow, this is tectonic.
Like everything is changing

685
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,160
underneath our feet and it has
to the US.

686
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,040
The West has been on a path of
just self destruction.

687
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,000
We have de industrialized.
We've got horrific balance

688
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,680
sheets.
We're spending money.

689
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,520
We don't have Social Security.
We don't have an illusion of

690
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,520
democracy in many respects
under, you know, trench

691
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,000
bureaucrats that don't move,
that aren't accountable, that

692
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,880
there's there's a lot to this
and bizarre that it that the

693
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,320
change agent is is Donald Trump.
I'm happy to admit that that's

694
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,880
an odd an odd character to
choose, but but it is so

695
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,760
necessary.
And you know, fuck, I hope, I

696
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,280
hope, I hope they get it right.
I just hope they they execute

697
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,400
quickly.
We wear the pain.

698
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,720
We've been living this
unsustainable, you know,

699
00:37:54,720 --> 00:38:00,520
government funded GDP growth
between fiscal looseness and

700
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,000
immigration that are both
unsustainable, whether it's

701
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,680
Australia, the US, take your
pick.

702
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,520
These things have fed GD
preprints and false senses of

703
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,080
economic growth.
And I think we're going to wear

704
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,880
this pain quickly.
They're going to do it quickly.

705
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,520
They got a midterm to get ahead
of.

706
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,360
I think that's a good thing.
It feels bad in financial

707
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,600
markets, but I think it is going
to translate eventually to

708
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,360
rotation to capital out of the
US.

709
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,520
You know, 70% of every global
equity dollar sits in the US.

710
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,760
Having some of that go outside
and, and look elsewhere, whether

711
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,920
it's, you know, EM and, or, or
hard assets like that's a good

712
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,480
thing.
So, so, yeah, so sorry, there's

713
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,520
a lot of big picture stuff going
on and all at the same time

714
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,880
we've got, we've got AI playing
out and, and big arms races and,

715
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,320
and the cool thing for humanity,
because that sounds very

716
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,680
stressful and very change
oriented and everyone struggles

717
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,840
with change.
No one, no one goes yay change.

718
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,840
But but the good thing is I
think ultimately this is going

719
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,680
to make us far more productive
humans like, like at a global

720
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,680
level.
And and I don't think anybody

721
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,680
sits here today and goes, oh,
you know, everybody should go

722
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,120
out and cut wheat with a sickle
because that employs more

723
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,480
people, right?
That's not a good idea.

724
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,760
We all know that.
So equally, the idea of AI

725
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,840
displacing jobs is a good thing
as long as we go find other

726
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,120
things to do.
So I, I think there's a lot of

727
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,080
positives in this.
It feels very uncomfortable, but

728
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,160
I think there's a lot to be
super excited about.

729
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,520
And I think AI just, you know,
in the here and now, even

730
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,280
without getting too, you know,
forward-looking, just at a

731
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,080
personal level, I know I've felt
it over the last two months,

732
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:37,080
just embracing and retraining my
brain and being able to attack

733
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,280
things that are otherwise would
park or put off because I feel

734
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,880
now empowered by this army of
intelligence and processing

735
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,640
speed behind.
Yeah.

736
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,280
And, and you know that that
that's here and now, right now,

737
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,800
right now, today, you as a human
being in your personal and your

738
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,640
professional existence, you can
optimize yourself so you know,

739
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,920
so quickly and and you can be
such a more effective version of

740
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,720
yourself right here, right now.
That's fucking exciting.

741
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:07,480
Like I I love that.
I don't think there's any point

742
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,160
in getting too scared or or or
or worried about dystopian

743
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,520
outcomes because it's happening
anyway and it may all blow up in

744
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,120
our faces.
This may be more dangerous than

745
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:17,760
nuclear weapons.
It'd be very well maybe, but

746
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,600
yeah, but.
One of the things that is

747
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,720
interesting about an AI kind of
paradigm when you put it as a

748
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:29,160
weapon is that, you know, a
nuclear bomb does a lot of

749
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,640
damage and it's a very terrible
event and it's pretty clear who

750
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,120
launched it, right?
Whereas AAI cyber attack can

751
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,680
actually do no damage to assets,
right?

752
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,800
And it's also very difficult to
trace where it came from.

753
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,840
So the threshold physical.
Damage, yeah.

754
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,720
You can essentially turn off an
asset and then maybe use it

755
00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:49,400
later if you like the asset,
right, right.

756
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,560
And I think that's coming into
that cybersecurity point where

757
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,200
we really do need to to take
that into consideration with the

758
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,600
the risks that we're looking at.
And I think there's lots of

759
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,960
opportunities to focus on in the
landscape.

760
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,960
But your point about
democratizing and equalizing

761
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,040
mining proficiency is a really
beautiful one, right?

762
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,840
Like when you're trying to
collect data for geological

763
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,800
observations, you know, you
don't want to be precluded from

764
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,320
using certain instruments and
measurement devices because

765
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,160
that's proprietary and you know,
it's it's some nation is

766
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,200
hoarding that tech, the better
we can come towards the way to

767
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,680
operate a mine has uniform
vendors, very well established

768
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,920
offering to ensure that you can
customize it to that resource

769
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,640
because it's our Earth that's
precious and unique, right?

770
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,840
The way to mine it should just
adapt in terms in terms of the

771
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:47,160
best science possible.
The implications on this like

772
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:52,880
pretty substantial technological
seismic shift that is underway

773
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:57,760
from like an investment lens.
Underground ore bodies become

774
00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,680
more attractive on a relative
basis.

775
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,080
There's maybe interesting
optionality there.

776
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:07,520
What else comes to mind from and
investment plans, Rusty, You

777
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,000
make money as a as a contrarian,
yeah.

778
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,640
Probably a few ways to think
about that one's at the asset

779
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,040
level.
So yeah, for sure, I think

780
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,680
underground V open cut has a,
has a, has an, has a relative

781
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:26,440
advantage.
Jurisdictional application will

782
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,200
be interesting here.
I can't help but feel like the

783
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,760
first world is going to win on
this one because it is high.

784
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,280
It's a higher cost environment
so it it makes a bigger

785
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:36,960
difference.
So that's a salient.

786
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:43,040
Point right because we like take
lithium for example, a huge

787
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,360
thing that kind of has been an
overhang on on that that entire

788
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,680
industry has been the fact that
like there's a lot of near

789
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,760
surface really capital light
like tons that can just kind of

790
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,680
get up like that.
But if we're uncompetitive doing

791
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,520
so like capital light kind of
model in, in, in, in WA because

792
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,080
our labour got so enormously
high, yeah, you need these

793
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,440
higher, higher picks, high CapEx
as a result.

794
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,000
But you have the equalizer, be
it the technological

795
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,360
productivity applied to the
West, where you yeah, easy, easy

796
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:13,320
winds are gone.
Are it be.

797
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,800
Worth asking Billy Beeman, what
do you thinks of some of this

798
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,240
stuff?
There's an argument here that'll

799
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,920
I know I'll get lots of knocks
for this one, but there's an

800
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,800
argument here at some point
where you say, well, do you even

801
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,680
allow open cut mining?
You know, if you look at

802
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:33,600
mining's impacts
environmentally, the scar tissue

803
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:39,360
is the, is the the hole itself
and the waste right next door to

804
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:40,480
it.
Typically speaking.

805
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,360
And in in big open cut settings,
you know your copper and you

806
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,040
super pits and like they're not
insignificant.

807
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:51,640
I think mining's reputation gets
like it's overstated what an

808
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,600
impact it has on the planet.
It's about 1% of the continental

809
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,720
landmass is impacted by mining,
50 plus percent impacted by

810
00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:00,200
agriculture.
So I'd say that upfront.

811
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,840
But in terms of getting, you
know, better results as an

812
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,880
industry, I think there'll be a
big argument to say, well, why

813
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,880
if you can suddenly cost
effectively pull this stuff out

814
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:15,040
from underground and a huge
chunk of the processed waste

815
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:20,240
then gets fed back in, well,
isn't that going to be a like

816
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,880
significantly better
environmental outcome?

817
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,120
I think that's always kind of
been the Holy Grail of mining.

818
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,040
It's just that it's, it's been
very hard to justify.

819
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,560
And if you look at like an asset
like next Gen's, you know that

820
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,400
that tells you, right, if you've
got the margin, you can do it.

821
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,960
It's just a cost function.
And if suddenly those

822
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,760
underground OPS become way more
cost effective on a relative

823
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,560
basis then that I think that
could be a really great thing.

824
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,680
Like I think we'd all love to
see that.

825
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:48,560
Nobody would.
Say no to that, right?

826
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,840
Yeah, I.
Wouldn't think so like be so

827
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,480
hard to justify going and
ripping big, you know,

828
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,120
generational scar tissue on the
surface of the Earth if you

829
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,600
don't need to.
I'm not here to throw stones at

830
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,800
that either, right?
That's been a necessary part of

831
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,840
human endeavour.
And as I said, it's it's 1% of

832
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,680
the surface of the Earth that
gets impacted.

833
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,680
So and it's.
A reflection of humans demand.

834
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,960
That's well, right it.
Totally, totally.

835
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,360
And, and you know, those things
will remediate over time and

836
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,200
that will, and you know, the
Earth will do its thing.

837
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,760
You know, in a geological sense,
in any sort of universe sense,

838
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,600
we're irrelevant.
It doesn't matter.

839
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,680
But, but without getting too
esoteric, I think it, it, it,

840
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,080
it's just going to be a far
better outcome.

841
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,320
If you, if you're running
underground mines and you're

842
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,320
putting, you know, a good, a
really high portion of your

843
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,440
waste back into that environment
in a solid manner that's, you

844
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,200
know, it's not water soluble,
etcetera, then then that's going

845
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,960
to be a great outcome.
And, and mining all of a sudden

846
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,800
as an interface at the surface,
which is where people feel it

847
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,600
where like competing land use
issues, whether it's like

848
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,720
tourism or agriculture or
whatever, suddenly there's very

849
00:45:56,720 --> 00:46:00,440
little surface expression
suddenly like, are you really a

850
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,680
competing land use?
You shouldn't be.

851
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,280
So, you know, I feel like social
acceptance towards mining could

852
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,520
get a lot greater.
That would be a great thing too.

853
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,680
Yeah.
And that again, first world

854
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,880
because because that's where
these things get roadblocked the

855
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,080
hardest.
Yeah.

856
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:16,440
And maybe it speeds things up,
right?

857
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,480
We go back to the government and
getting approvals and all these

858
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,120
things.
And you know, we all know that

859
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,080
it takes 15 plus years in, in
the Western world from discovery

860
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,960
to getting a mine started.
You can cut that down.

861
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,160
It's relevant to everything
we've said, economics, the the

862
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,760
whole suite of it.
Yep, it, it all kind of ties in

863
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:33,840
there.
So it'd be.

864
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,760
Yeah, if I reckon it like if
you're running a big mining

865
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,600
company today, this should be
your the first thing you talk

866
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,600
about it every quarterly.
I can't see how AI is not the

867
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,760
most important thing you're
discussing.

868
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,200
Like I've said to all my staff
quite brutally, hey, I will make

869
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,840
you redundant before AI does if
you don't do your AI training

870
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,600
every day.
So we have like, and I have

871
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,960
been, I like thinking of pretty
mellow person to work with up

872
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,600
until now.
And, and, but I'm so passionate

873
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,080
about this.
Like if you don't embrace it and

874
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,840
you know, we've got people that
are 70 years old in our

875
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:15,800
organization won't name anyone
Dougie and, and and you know,

876
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,800
embracing AI and just doing it
day in day is going to

877
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,320
differentiate where you land.
And, and that applies not just

878
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,120
to the individual, but to the
organization.

879
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,200
And big companies need to be
talking about this front and

880
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,840
center.
And and it's going to be

881
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,680
fascinating how these lands,
competitive landscapes evolved

882
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:39,160
because small teams, single
person teams, small human teams

883
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:44,680
are going to be so much more
efficient than big bureaucratic

884
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,720
encumbered organizations.
And it's I'm going to love

885
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:51,480
watching that journey like that
is going to be so fucking cool.

886
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,360
When did?
You come to this realization,

887
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,880
I'm really curious, like when
did when did it hit you that AI

888
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,880
is the thing?
Like before, I rang you guys and

889
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,160
said let's do it, let's do a
piece, come on.

890
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,280
It's certainly over the
Christmas break.

891
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,680
I had the, you know, I feel like
Christmas is just such a great

892
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,320
time of the year to just sit
back and watch as much cricket

893
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:18,960
as possible and just clear the
brain and just think as

894
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,680
laterally as you can.
And I, I do that in a few

895
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,800
different ways, but but it was
probably over.

896
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:28,960
It had been simmering away for
probably six months.

897
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,360
And then at that Christmas
break, I felt like I had time to

898
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,400
crystallize a bunch of things.
And as it turned out, you know,

899
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,200
the, the, the team, Dan and, and
James in particular came back

900
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,840
from the break with the same
landings, which I, I was stoked

901
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:42,280
about.
So I was like, hey, guys, this

902
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,560
is, this is where my head's at.
This is how I'm seeing things.

903
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:46,800
Do you think, am I off pierced
here?

904
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:49,040
And, and, and yeah, it wasn't
the case.

905
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,680
And I think, you know, we have
for us as an organization, you

906
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,280
know, we're doing an enormous
amount of work at the individual

907
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:56,640
level.
So like mandatory daily

908
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,800
training, like we are all
starting just grassroots, you

909
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,880
know, the, the Google online
academic sort of platform, just

910
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,160
get the basics right, build the
foundation at an individual

911
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:08,840
level.
And you know, James is ex

912
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:10,760
Goldman Sachs data analytics.
So he's at a different level,

913
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,000
but we're all working together
at the basics.

914
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,560
And then we'll find, I think
routes where we can specialize

915
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,400
in it and, and training areas
that are going to help us within

916
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,120
our own specializations.
But but yeah, you know, as an,

917
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,200
as an organization, that's where
we've started at the individual

918
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:28,280
level.
And then we've done a huge

919
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,640
amount of mapping around our
systems and processes and trying

920
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:38,320
to prioritize where it is.
We embrace AI and spend time and

921
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:44,280
some capital to, to make that
happen as quickly as we can.

922
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:46,960
And it's so we're already using
it.

923
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:54,360
And, and specifically, this is
around real time data analytics,

924
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,920
so to speak.
So it's, and I'll, I'll use

925
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:01,240
words wrong and probably get
lots of comments about this, the

926
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:02,760
vernacular.
I'm sure I'll, I'll cook it.

927
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:07,640
But, but, but the, the, the
premise is like our job is

928
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,400
pretty simple, right?
We have a, a chunk of capital

929
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,680
to, to invest at any given point
in time and we ask 2 pertinent

930
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:19,120
questions through the day.
And that is, first of all, do we

931
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:23,360
own something that we no longer
should or And and then secondly,

932
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,720
because the first thing you want
to do is look at your portfolio.

933
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,440
That's the that's that's the be
all.

934
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,680
The rest of it's just noise.
It's what you own that matters.

935
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:31,480
So first of all, do you own
something that you no longer

936
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:33,640
should?
And then secondly, is it

937
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:35,920
something that you don't own
that you now should?

938
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,040
And that's how we're thinking
about it.

939
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,280
And that's very simple, but it
needs to happen in real time.

940
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,360
And so where we're trying to get
to is like this army of

941
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,960
analysis, if you like, that is
in real time telling us we've

942
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,440
with a different lens.
So you can conceptualize an

943
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,440
investment model in many
different ways.

944
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,320
And I would say in different
macroeconomic climates and

945
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:03,160
commodity climates and market
climates, different models might

946
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,200
work.
Like for example, in a, in a

947
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:11,040
fizzy bull market where you
know, uranium is 150 a pound and

948
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,200
any urine, you know, you're
going to just chase any deal you

949
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:15,760
can.
So you're going to optimize for

950
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,080
like access to deal flow.
And that's a very unique, you

951
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,960
know, that's not my DNA.
But at a certain point in time

952
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,360
that might make sense.
And there'll be a lens for that.

953
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:31,640
Then then, you know, our DNA is,
is more in deep value kind of

954
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,520
cyclically looking at things.
So tell me something that's deep

955
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,040
value as we perceive deep value
to be.

956
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,720
So let's define that.
That's like, you know, pristine

957
00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:43,920
balance sheets, ideally the
commodities trading into the

958
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,440
cost curve because that's when
we tend to find associated low

959
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,080
valuations, prove that we have
low valuation.

960
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,880
Show me, you know, PES or
whatever the case may be.

961
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,120
Ideally they're also in AQ1 or
Q2 or the cost curve.

962
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:57,960
So they're bulletproof if this
gets worse before it gets

963
00:51:57,960 --> 00:51:59,600
better.
So it's like defining those

964
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:04,040
characteristics that, that that
are a model and then trying to

965
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,000
sort of press the button at any
given point in time and say that

966
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:08,960
model, that model and that
model, I think are relevant in

967
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,880
this climate.
And tell me all day, every

968
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:16,400
fucking day, wherever, whenever,
when something is, is of

969
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:17,960
interest.
And that's a sort of screening

970
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,840
process.
And, and then it still requires

971
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,160
the human interface to check
that screening and make sure

972
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,120
that that's done the way you
think it should be.

973
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,000
And it's been, you know, it's
got the right answers.

974
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,800
And then you go get your your
three best ideas and then go

975
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,280
have the bottom up, you know,
workflow where you start with

976
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,880
three pieces of analysis from
from from research houses or or,

977
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,000
you know, brokers sell side
shortcut your way around that,

978
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:42,520
that work stream as much as
possible.

979
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,440
Chuck that into your own model.
Have the meeting with

980
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:46,160
management.
Do it.

981
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:50,320
You know, do that ground up
work, but do that.

982
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,280
But but critically, shortcut
your way to that list of three

983
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:58,680
names really fucking quickly on
like a daily basis that.

984
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,720
That perspective reminds me so
much of Stanley Druckenmiller.

985
00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:04,840
Absolutely.
You know, legend in all respects

986
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:10,600
in our investment game and
clearly traded the whole AI

987
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,320
automatic phenomenally himself.
But he talks about, you know, in

988
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,320
a recent interview that the
ability to integrate AI into

989
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,320
decision making as an investment
manager, anything it's like the

990
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,560
ultimate, the ultimate
investment decision making.

991
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,920
It will happen with the
augmentation.

992
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:28,280
It's augmentation for sure over
the intuition that comes with,

993
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:30,600
you know the the reps like this
is.

994
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,120
Fascinating, right?
And, and where I think, you

995
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,280
know, getting with the program
so important because there is a

996
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,040
role for humans here.
We will be displaced if we don't

997
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:45,160
embrace the augmented AI.
But but there is a role and, and

998
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:50,400
I think AI is a, is a construct
of us and it's a reflection of

999
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,640
us in many ways.
And it works within certainly as

1000
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,120
I've understood.
Tell me if I get this wrong, but

1001
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,640
within the language models it
works within a set of data.

1002
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,960
Here's a reflection of
everybody's thoughts, so to

1003
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,160
speak.
Yeah, one, one of the earlier

1004
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,920
ChatGPT bots was basically just
Reddit, right?

1005
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,720
And Reddit had some real curly
opinions in dark corners that

1006
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:11,480
would come out from time to
time, right?

1007
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:16,280
So a big part of the modern LLMS
is something called human

1008
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,360
feedback reinforcement learning.
And it's where they've kind of

1009
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:23,720
really essentially guided it to
respond in a certain way, you

1010
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:26,120
know, the way that it'll repeat
back the question and.

1011
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,800
And you know, yeah.
So interestingly, like what

1012
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,720
we're seeing at the moment in,
in, in our experience is like,

1013
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:37,120
it's not, I don't think it's in
a place where it can think

1014
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:41,160
counter cyclically because it's,
it's, it's digesting what's out

1015
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,520
there that's a reflection of the
other human thoughts.

1016
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,000
So let's say everybody hates
PGMS at the moment.

1017
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,880
There's any amount of analysis
that says PGM sucks, you go put

1018
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,960
your AI through that and it's
just going to reflect that.

1019
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,000
So in many ways, I think AI at
the minute is kind of a

1020
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,920
reflection of consensus if
that's the thing you're trying

1021
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:06,160
to do with the AI.
So I it's helpful, but it just

1022
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:08,840
boils down consent.
It doesn't help you think

1023
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,080
counter intuitively or counter
cyclically.

1024
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,160
And I think that's where the
human interface plays a real

1025
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,040
role.
And if you can then, yeah, guide

1026
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,600
it in that direction or, or just
do it yourself and say, well, I

1027
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:19,880
don't give a fuck if you think
that.

1028
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,480
Like just go and give me the
best name you.

1029
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,200
You give it the data of how
you've invested historically and

1030
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,840
maybe it can understand your,
your style that.

1031
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,560
How that that's really extreme
where where I've been asking for

1032
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,200
for nearly a year, Yeah.
And we haven't been able to get

1033
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:35,320
there yet.
I think it's a.

1034
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,800
It's not as easy as it sounds
like I just keep banging the

1035
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,120
table and saying why can't I
just Chuck in the?

1036
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:43,760
Yeah, you know.
The spreadsheet with all the you

1037
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,000
know, it should go correlate
what were the commodity prices

1038
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:48,880
at the Nero.
That's definitely you know

1039
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,000
that's your one that's in our
work stream.

1040
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:55,520
Yeah, in our sort of checklist
of things we want to get done,

1041
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:56,960
that's that's right up there.
So this.

1042
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:58,800
Is this is part of the
innovations that I'm seeing in

1043
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,760
our current moment that are
really exciting.

1044
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,840
So one of the more recent papers
is about a model consensus

1045
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:08,240
protocol and this is essentially
this protocol for how large

1046
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:11,040
language models in particular
should be accessing certain

1047
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:12,920
platforms.
So you should see this

1048
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,320
integration on, you know, maybe
Slack or Notion or any of your

1049
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,040
other big apps.
But the purpose of it grander is

1050
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:25,280
to go to those on Prem databases
where like a drill hole analysis

1051
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,520
database would be a good example
in mining where you want the

1052
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,600
mining company to have their own
LLM that's still got a lot of

1053
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,040
the language and skills from the
base level, but it can access

1054
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,720
your data.
And if you can imagine

1055
00:56:37,720 --> 00:56:41,280
integrating that with a data
lake where the mine plan is

1056
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,160
there, where you've got all the
operating specs and even your

1057
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:48,560
maintenance and CapEx, that is
where accessing that large

1058
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,960
language model.
This is where there's like a bit

1059
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,840
of a CapEx piece for the.
So there's like a heap of third

1060
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,800
party stuff, right, which you
can grab and plug in and

1061
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,040
optimize yourself with right
now.

1062
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:00,400
Yeah, deep.
Seek in there.

1063
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,440
Open sourcing is a good example
for today, yeah.

1064
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:05,160
Yeah, and and I think what
you're talking about is really

1065
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:10,520
interesting because there's also
your own universe where you can

1066
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:15,200
create your own learning.
And I will fuck this up with

1067
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:16,760
with vernacular and how I
explain this.

1068
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:21,920
But yes, your own pool and then
and then and then utilize AI to

1069
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,280
analyse that in real time.
So we are looking at exactly

1070
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:25,760
that.
But it is a CapEx that's.

1071
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:26,800
Alpha, right?
Yes.

1072
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,560
You've got to keep alpha on your
own service and don't let anyone

1073
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,280
else have access to alpha.
Exactly.

1074
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:34,320
So what what defines like a
fund's competitive advantage?

1075
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:39,640
It's it's, it's the funnel of
information that you as a fund

1076
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:43,320
get that with, you know, that's
deal flow and information.

1077
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,160
You as a fund get better access
to that theoretically than than

1078
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,320
than other people.
If you don't, then you shouldn't

1079
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,040
be doing it.
It's then it's then taking that

1080
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:57,520
funnel and distilling that to
competitive advantage.

1081
00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,240
So that's you've got to
translate that to a knowledge

1082
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,760
and then you've got to translate
that to a competitive advantage.

1083
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:11,120
And, and sorry, but to do that,
that's your own ecosystem.

1084
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,360
And that's all your inbounds,
like you guys would say this,

1085
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,520
right?
Like your daily inbounds on

1086
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:17,840
e-mail, all the different
investment banks, all the, and

1087
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,240
you know, it's real time.
That stuff doesn't turn up in

1088
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:25,640
Bloomberg necessarily or S&P in
these data banks that you can

1089
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,760
plug AI into.
Now that's not necessary that

1090
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,720
that real time flow isn't
necessarily hitting those data

1091
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:36,440
banks at at in real time.
They're sort of backward looking

1092
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,400
and I would argue they probably
remain so.

1093
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,280
Whereas you as a fund have this
flow of information, you're then

1094
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,760
exchanging it internally,
whether that's through WhatsApp

1095
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:48,160
or whatever other means of
communication you have e-mail,

1096
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,960
etc.
But you should have AI plugged

1097
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,680
into that unique ecosystem of
your own.

1098
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:55,280
And that's, that's exactly what
we're mapping.

1099
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:55,840
Yeah.
And.

1100
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:59,040
And the that same concept of the
alpha for investing is, is

1101
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,920
exactly what I'm seeing in
mining tech solutions as well,

1102
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:05,640
right, is that if you have a
domain expertise and you're able

1103
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:10,200
to serve the entire global
mining industry, you develop

1104
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,480
this capability that is just
unparalleled just the.

1105
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,120
Miner or do you own the data?
Well.

1106
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,080
I think that when you talk about
the raw data, that the miner

1107
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:20,760
always just needs to own the raw
data.

1108
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,680
And that's really a big part of
what things like GDPR are doing

1109
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:25,720
for personal data at this point
in time.

1110
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:29,720
But when it comes to the process
data, right, the actual wisdom

1111
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,320
that can be imparted on by a
domain expert, which at this

1112
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,480
point is still a combination of
a human and AI.

1113
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,800
But in the future, right, you
could have completely autonomous

1114
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:45,480
organizations offering services
to minds, which is basically

1115
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,240
just input your data here and
your knowledge comes out this

1116
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,280
side and, and that could be
almost completely autonomous,

1117
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,080
right?
It's a big part of where I, I

1118
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:58,000
see the mining tech landscape
going at the moment.

1119
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,160
And especially when you look at,
you know, what could be

1120
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,880
happening in surface mines,
there's a lot of autonomous tech

1121
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:08,240
now that's going down the
production drill holes and

1122
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:11,040
scanning them, right, the
production drill holes.

1123
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,480
Way cheaper because they're
they're just, you know, big air

1124
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,600
drills, they're not diamond core
and they're in a really tight

1125
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,960
spacing.
So from a geologist point of

1126
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,360
view, it's an amazing
opportunity to get a much

1127
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:27,000
tighter view of the resource and
make sure that you are actually

1128
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,880
sending the right material to
the mill and getting this higher

1129
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,400
metal core factor recovery of
your reserves.

1130
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:39,120
But at the moment, you know,
where a lot of this tech is

1131
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,720
going is that it's got that
regulatory hurdles.

1132
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,760
And so that's really exactly
where we've got to come back to

1133
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,400
this core point of how do we
ensure that the the board is

1134
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:51,560
going to look at these
opportunities and go, we're

1135
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,720
going to push for this, we're
going to do this innovation.

1136
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:54,760
Yeah, it's it's.
Interesting.

1137
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:58,280
I reckon like the darker here is
going to be whether whether you

1138
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,080
know, you're an investor like us
or, or, or a corporate and an

1139
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,640
operator, you know, a mining
company, it's going to be like,

1140
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:09,960
how do you, how do you utilize
AI in a bespoke way to your own

1141
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,280
data lake?
That's your, that's the only

1142
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:16,240
Moat that you own here.
That as far as I can see, it's

1143
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:19,520
not going to be like, how do I
apply, you know, some really

1144
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:24,320
smart thinking to a universally
available pool of data that that

1145
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:27,280
anybody, everybody's going to be
racing at the same time for

1146
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,160
that.
So it's like, how do you, how do

1147
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,520
you define your own data lake?
And then how do you, you know,

1148
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,360
build the AI infrastructure into
that?

1149
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,600
And it's, it's a hard one.
Like we're working through all

1150
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,560
of that because there's a
component of capital required to

1151
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:41,680
do that.
These things aren't cheap.

1152
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,120
And then you don't want to
invest that capital in six

1153
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,840
months, 12 months later have it,
you know, redundant because

1154
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:49,920
there's something off the shelf
or, or whatever.

1155
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:54,000
So yeah, yeah, I I don't have
all the answers where there's

1156
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:56,320
not working.
Like to the to the point of of

1157
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:58,920
the technology being an
equalizer in some respect, like

1158
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:01,880
to our markets not just get
tremendously more efficient

1159
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,880
because kind of everyone's got I
know, I know there is still a

1160
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,280
Moat in the fund with its own
information and synthesizing all

1161
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:09,880
of that, but you would.
Think so.

1162
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,080
I reckon the really interesting
part for commodities is that

1163
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:17,160
it's such an unsexy part of the
equity world, you know, as an

1164
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,200
asset class, no one want, no one
gives a fuck.

1165
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:26,560
Yeah, commodities, we've got 70%
of every equity dollar globally

1166
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:29,480
sits in the US and some huge
fraction of that in in the mag

1167
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,760
7.
So like, the concentration of

1168
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,080
capital is massive.
No one's really looking at the

1169
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,720
sector.
It's an enormously specialized

1170
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,920
space.
Like the knowledge required to

1171
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:45,720
really land somewhere informed,
I think is enormously

1172
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:46,880
specialized.
And.

1173
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,040
And so I reckon there is this
window here to get this right.

1174
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:51,720
That's what excites me.
I reckon coming back from

1175
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,800
Christmas and being like, Oh
yeah, no, you know, I'm pretty

1176
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:57,760
pumped about getting this right
in our, our space because it

1177
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,800
isn't sexy.
And resources, commodities,

1178
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,280
mining, it's never been sexy.
So I feel like we're going to

1179
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:09,120
get a bit of a longer window
maybe to apply all the stuff

1180
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,520
that the tech side of things is
bringing because the tech side

1181
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:14,800
naturally applies it to its own
environment.

1182
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,760
So that where have we seen a,
where have we seen AI applied

1183
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,120
first?
It's like, oh, it's in coding,

1184
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:25,640
it's in graphics, it's these are
all like tech places because

1185
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,240
it's their, it's just a natural
thing for them.

1186
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,880
It's their ecosystem.
I feel like we get an

1187
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:36,400
opportunity, particularly in
mining finance to get really

1188
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,280
lateral and I think we'll I
don't think mining is going to

1189
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,840
become sexy tomorrow.
So, so that that excites me.

1190
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,080
I feel like, you know that, that
that's cool and like you guys

1191
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:49,840
would know this so well, right?
Like information asymmetry down.

1192
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:54,160
There's nowhere I don't, I know
of where it exists more than in

1193
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,200
than in mining.
And maybe that's a function of

1194
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,160
how many small caps we have.
I'm not sure.

1195
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:02,280
But without question, it, it, it
exists as you go down the market

1196
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:04,600
cap curve.
And I think that talks like

1197
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:07,040
incentives and, and why it
exists.

1198
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,040
I think that will stay that way.
And if you can apply, if you can

1199
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:14,440
get even better at thinking
outside the square, then then

1200
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,000
then great.
The next step is probably like,

1201
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,880
how do we then how do we then
interface that?

1202
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:21,960
And that's certainly something,
you know, I know we need to do a

1203
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:23,320
lot better.
It's like, how do we then

1204
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,560
interface that back to the
market to say, Hey, hey, you've,

1205
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:29,200
you've missed something.
This is, this is you should

1206
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,600
allocate capital here.
That bit, I think in small cap

1207
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:36,000
mining we could do way better.
I, I would argue that we see

1208
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,800
companies and assets that
shouldn't get funded, funded all

1209
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,040
the time.
And we see companies and assets

1210
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,040
that should get funded, not get
funded.

1211
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:47,280
And and so I would say like the
efficient allocation of capital

1212
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:51,520
in, in metals and mining it,
there's a huge room for

1213
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:56,800
improvement in in doing that.
Is is mining not being sexy just

1214
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:58,640
from that capital allocation
perspective?

1215
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:00,240
No one.
Wants to go to a fucking dinner

1216
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:01,800
party and say I invest in
mining.

1217
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:03,720
No, no one.
It's like saying I pick up the

1218
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:04,800
garbage.
I try.

1219
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:09,120
Saying you're a podcaster.
It's not working for you man.

1220
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,440
Yeah, I just, I, I find I really
have a love for mining, right?

1221
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,040
And maybe, maybe I'm one of
those rare people who think it

1222
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,240
is sexy.
But when I look at everything in

1223
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,200
this world, especially the, the
more tech we've got, right,

1224
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:25,080
there's so much copper we need
for this clean energy transition

1225
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,520
and and nuclear is a massive
part of that, right.

1226
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:30,640
So we've got to get our hands on
all the nuclear resources to and

1227
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,320
work out that supply chain to
turn these raw minerals into the

1228
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,120
products we need to advance and
grow.

1229
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:39,360
Yeah, right.
It's, it's an immensely,

1230
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,240
immensely cool journey that I
think I'm really proud to play a

1231
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,520
role in.
So particularly when you see it

1232
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:50,360
from the perspective that all of
these resources are one in a

1233
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:53,600
billion occurrences, freak
events that happened millions of

1234
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:56,720
years ago in our Earth's
formation, you see them as

1235
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,840
unique.
And I think that's why I love

1236
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:02,440
working with geologists, right?
They have this real respect for

1237
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:05,720
the resource.
They love not only to discover

1238
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:10,280
and define it, but protect it
right when when we're mining I I

1239
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:13,360
know that some people can see a
giant hole in the ground as a

1240
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:17,720
scar on the earth, but I've seen
some massive pits in my time and

1241
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:20,040
they are feats of engineering I
reckon.

1242
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:21,440
I come across cheerleaders all
the time.

1243
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:23,720
They don't want to see it mine,
they they love the ore body

1244
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:25,440
itself.
It's a bit like the the golf

1245
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:27,440
course curator.
He doesn't want to see anybody

1246
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:29,720
out there playing fucking golf,
cutting up his course.

1247
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:34,440
I I share the love and and like,
I like being in a unsexy

1248
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:35,800
industry.
I reckon it's rad.

1249
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:40,400
I love going against the grade.
I think it it takes way more.

1250
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:43,200
I guess I just got mad respect
for anybody who does it.

1251
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,960
Well, yeah.
And so, yeah, I agree with you.

1252
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,600
I think the sector is so
important.

1253
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:53,160
This this you know, this fallacy
that we're, you know, we see

1254
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,240
permeated time and time again
from groups like the EU that we

1255
01:06:56,240 --> 01:07:00,000
can live in some, you know,
world of of, you know, fully,

1256
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:03,680
fully self-sufficient recycling
is just fucking fantasy.

1257
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:07,040
It is utter fantasy.
And, and yeah, we've barely

1258
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:09,120
scratched the surface of the
earth really with mining.

1259
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:14,440
There's no true limitation to,
to what we can access.

1260
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,160
It's just a cost function.
You know, there is no peak oil,

1261
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,640
There isn't.
There are enormously abundant

1262
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:25,160
quantums of, of resource
available within the planet and

1263
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,040
it's purely a cost function to,
to access them.

1264
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,760
And without question, I think
we're going to need a lot more

1265
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,520
energy and a lot more
commodities because we've got a

1266
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:37,800
lot of people still to pull out
of poverty, a lot of people just

1267
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:40,640
to, to get to a reasonable
living standard.

1268
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,400
And then we've got the first
world going to a place of energy

1269
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,960
intensity that it never had
before.

1270
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:50,000
We're taking, we're about to
jump a big quantum leap in

1271
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:54,160
energy usage per person because
of data and because of AI and,

1272
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:57,280
and I unashamedly think that's a
good thing.

1273
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:01,360
There's nothing bad about that.
I, I know we'll get lots of

1274
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:06,080
climate change arguments.
Climate change is probably the

1275
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:10,920
worst used vernacular I've ever
seen climates change.

1276
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:15,760
That is a fundamental tenet of
existence on this earth change.

1277
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:21,560
And so it's, it's one of the
worst misuses of, of verbiage

1278
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,800
I've seen.
And, and, and, and, and you

1279
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:28,520
know, the, the things that we
can do is just get, get, get

1280
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:31,640
better at being industrial.
If you're a true

1281
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:36,880
environmentalist, mining is a
key function in, in a lower

1282
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:39,800
impact on the planet.
And I know that sounds very

1283
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:43,600
counter intuitive, but a true
environmentalist in my mind

1284
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:50,120
wants the most energy efficient
system, agricultural efficiency.

1285
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:55,000
So get the fuck off the land
intensively farm, get the most

1286
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:57,960
out of, out of your, your, your
interface with the land as you

1287
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:03,520
can live in, in cities and in
urban environments, and then,

1288
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:05,720
and then leave as much nature
untouched as you can.

1289
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:07,439
That, that, that's a real
environmentalist.

1290
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:12,200
And that involves nuclear and,
and, you know, energy efficiency

1291
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:14,680
and, and, and all of these sorts
of modern things that we're all

1292
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:16,880
doing.
And yet bizarrely, the left

1293
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:20,520
continues to seem to fight us on
and sell this idea that you

1294
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:24,399
know, you know, this fatalism
and we're all fucked and humans

1295
01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:27,680
are it's just garbage.
The best thing we can do is keep

1296
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:31,800
being progressive, keep keep
digging holes, keep getting

1297
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:34,439
better at it, keep educating
people.

1298
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:37,359
If you want to get human impact
lower.

1299
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:40,200
Well, less people is probably a
start.

1300
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:45,200
And the key to getting less
people is actually rising GDP

1301
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:48,279
and education.
So sorry, I know that's way off

1302
01:09:48,279 --> 01:09:50,560
topic, but let's.
Get even more philosophical

1303
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:58,400
trustee in a in an AI augmented
society, where does where does

1304
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:03,840
capital flow?
Oh, this one's I think we

1305
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:05,120
touched on this a little bit
earlier.

1306
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:11,240
Like so I saw Elon made some
comments like, do we even need

1307
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:16,120
money?
Like I was like, whoa, OK, I

1308
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:21,000
think I think that might be, we
probably don't have to jump

1309
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:23,440
there.
Let's let's say on the path to

1310
01:10:23,440 --> 01:10:26,640
90% of everything getting
fundamentally cheaper and you've

1311
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:28,480
got this pool of capital.
It's like, well, where do you

1312
01:10:28,480 --> 01:10:29,920
allocate it?
What do you do with it?

1313
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:35,000
I would say in terms of asset
classes, you're going to chase

1314
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,760
assets that you can't create,
goods and services that you

1315
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:45,800
can't just create.
So collectibles, IE pieces of

1316
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:49,240
art, they're going to, you know,
you're going to chase those.

1317
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:54,440
They're one offs by definition.
Hard assets, I would think

1318
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:58,000
property like you're going to,
you're going to scramble for

1319
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:01,400
property globally.
You can't, you're not making any

1320
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:06,280
more earth.
And, and, and I think that that

1321
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:09,360
equally applies to, to
commodities and, and all bodies,

1322
01:11:09,440 --> 01:11:13,520
things that are in the ground.
So I I and then beyond that, I,

1323
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:19,680
I, I, I don't know, extending
your existence for a few

1324
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:23,600
thousand years and, and these
lots of concepts, you know, it's

1325
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:25,520
going to be a fucking mind
blowing world.

1326
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,760
I mean, like you can, you can
start having conversations

1327
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:31,000
around this concept of human
ascension and like, you know, do

1328
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:32,560
you move from the physical to
the.

1329
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:38,120
Yeah, 1 interesting AI concept
is to replicate your

1330
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:40,320
consciousness on a computer,
right?

1331
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:43,400
And you can have this debate
about whether it is conscious or

1332
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:45,680
not.
But what's interesting is that

1333
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:48,280
it's a program running on a
computer that's powered by

1334
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:50,040
electricity and that costs
money.

1335
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:54,240
So even if you can emulate your
consciousness, you still have to

1336
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:56,840
have a job, you still got to pay
outgoings, right?

1337
01:11:56,840 --> 01:12:00,960
And you kind of ascension in all
these AI sensors always still

1338
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,040
constrained.
And so I like that idea of

1339
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:06,720
exploration, right?
And hopefully where the capital

1340
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,640
flow when real estate starts to
get really high and if we

1341
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:12,600
struggle with our commodity
problems is to colonize on other

1342
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:15,240
planets, right?
And another potential part of

1343
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:17,560
that commodity mix is asteroid
mining.

1344
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:20,640
You know, there's so much metal
out there in the rest of the

1345
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:24,280
solar system and it doesn't have
those environmental constraints.

1346
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:26,120
As far as we know, there's no
life out there.

1347
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,560
And it's really interesting to
think, you know, how a supply

1348
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:32,800
and demand curve could change if
you all of a sudden discover 10

1349
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:35,520
times the amount of copper
that's ever existed on the Earth

1350
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:37,760
in a low hanging asteroid,
right?

1351
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:41,800
And so you add that in with also
trying to expand throughout the

1352
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:43,360
solar system.
You know, there's some pretty

1353
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:46,280
cool moons near Saturn as well
that we could colonize.

1354
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:51,360
And it really is important to de
risk our only one planet that

1355
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,520
we're currently not looking
after the best by by expanding

1356
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:56,440
and colonizing the rest of the
Galaxy, was it?

1357
01:12:56,440 --> 01:12:58,240
Bezos that was talking about
that, were you guys?

1358
01:12:58,480 --> 01:13:00,880
Yeah, 100%.
Bezos was saying get rid of all

1359
01:13:01,440 --> 01:13:04,560
the emissions intensive
industries, put them out there.

1360
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:07,680
Yeah, because everyone that's
ever gone out there looks back

1361
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:10,720
at Earth and says, hey, it
doesn't get better than this.

1362
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:12,280
This is the this is the one.
So the planet.

1363
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:16,960
Becomes a National Park and
then, yeah, it's interesting.

1364
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:20,280
I, I, I, I don't mind like the
starting premise that the planet

1365
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:22,080
becomes a, a kind of a National
Park.

1366
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:23,800
I think, I think there's some
merit to that.

1367
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,280
But I think if we step back
through the conversation we just

1368
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:30,080
had around like underground
mining and, and how low impact

1369
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,840
you can make it, you know, how's
that going to compete from a

1370
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:37,040
cost function point of view with
going all the way to a bloody

1371
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:41,520
asteroid or another planet and
pulling, you know, but our vast

1372
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,920
sums of rock back to, you know,
even refined metal back back to

1373
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:48,160
planet Earth.
I to me that intuitively feels

1374
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:49,520
like that could be a long way
away.

1375
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:52,440
And and I feel like we can, we
can interface with the planet we

1376
01:13:52,440 --> 01:13:57,080
have far better and and with
with much less impact, but.

1377
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:59,880
If if we're trying to live in
low Earth orbit, actually

1378
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:02,560
lifting the metals off the
ground to put them into low

1379
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:04,560
Earth orbit is incredibly
expensive.

1380
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,720
So it makes more sense to pull
them out into orbit.

1381
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:12,680
So that whole low Earth orbit
kind of habitable zone, it's got

1382
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:14,440
to come from asteroid mining,
right?

1383
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,480
And like again, you know, you'd
essentially have those two

1384
01:14:17,480 --> 01:14:19,880
commodity prices of where is it
located?

1385
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:22,760
Is it on growth Earth and the
gravity well or is it in low

1386
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:25,280
Earth orbit?
Any any any colonization

1387
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,480
elsewhere like any any other
place other than planet Earth

1388
01:14:28,480 --> 01:14:32,440
and the the the raw materials
required for that process will

1389
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:37,040
will not come from planet Earth.
I wouldn't have thought, yeah, I

1390
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:38,800
hope we're all around to see all
this stuff.

1391
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:41,600
Like I think this goes like
where do you spell spend your

1392
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:45,440
capital will other than sort of
asset allocation and and trying

1393
01:14:45,440 --> 01:14:48,880
to get to you might what I just
explained people might as well I

1394
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,320
don't give a fuck.
Like I don't need any return on

1395
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,240
capital.
I'm pretty self-sufficient or,

1396
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:56,960
you know, it doesn't cost me
much to to to live.

1397
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:01,000
Maybe you're prioritizing your
illness and and your longevity

1398
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:06,040
and and we're seeing huge floods
of capital into into living for,

1399
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:09,720
you know, massively extended
periods of time in various ways,

1400
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:12,080
shapes or forms.
I, I, I could definitely see

1401
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:15,640
that as a place that people
start really getting after and

1402
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:19,480
particularly when you apply AI
into that like the medical

1403
01:15:19,480 --> 01:15:21,480
space.
I, I would love to, I'm sure

1404
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:24,680
there'll be many podcasts out
there on, on that I'm sure, but

1405
01:15:25,440 --> 01:15:28,040
without question, right, we're
going to advance those fields

1406
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:30,400
pretty quickly I I think from
here.

1407
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:33,200
So living.
Forever sounds a bit dystopian

1408
01:15:33,440 --> 01:15:34,560
to to me.
Rusty, but well.

1409
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:38,440
You get stuck in concepts like
what is this and, and you know,

1410
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,680
what's on the backside of this
and should you really live here

1411
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:44,480
forever?
And yeah, all sorts of weird and

1412
01:15:44,480 --> 01:15:47,800
wonderful stuff.
So, yeah, there's, there's so

1413
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:51,360
many fascinating big picture
questions.

1414
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:53,040
And I think we're going to get
so many more answers to the

1415
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:54,640
universe.
Like it's such a it's such an

1416
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:57,720
awesome time to be alive.
Like, you know, we've gone

1417
01:15:57,720 --> 01:15:59,960
through this period where I
think science has like

1418
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:04,840
demystified the Mystic part of
humanity, if you like, so that,

1419
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:06,880
you know, that it used to be
like a lot of faith, like a lot

1420
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:10,280
of religion and a lot of these
sorts of things dominated human

1421
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:12,960
thinking.
I think science has has smoothed

1422
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:14,680
a lot of that out, if you like,
at the time.

1423
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:17,640
I think that fascinating part of
science at the moment is like in

1424
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:20,800
the quantum realm, it's sort of
re mystifying things.

1425
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:23,040
So we've gone from this place of
like, oh, we, we sort of

1426
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:24,840
understand it all.
We get how it works.

1427
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,280
You guys are fucking you guys
are dreaming.

1428
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:29,640
You know what you're thinking
with your 3000 religions.

1429
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:33,280
Suddenly we're like, oh, quantum
is telling us that a particle

1430
01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:36,240
can communicate with another
particle in some other part of

1431
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:39,000
the universe or, you know,
without it, without any sort of

1432
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:42,440
physical tangible cause and
effect.

1433
01:16:42,480 --> 01:16:45,400
Like, what the fuck?
So it's a.

1434
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:48,080
Simulation layer, Yeah.
The simulation, The simulation

1435
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:50,240
layer, yeah.
There's there's such cool stuff

1436
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:52,840
coming out of science now,
ironically, that he's almost re

1437
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:54,920
mystifying our existence in our
universe.

1438
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:58,400
And you know, I find it faster.
I'd I'd sort of always grown up

1439
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:02,320
quite sort of atheist in a way.
And I and I think as times going

1440
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:08,440
on, I look at like every human
civilization that we're aware of

1441
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:12,160
has found some form of deity.
You know, why is that?

1442
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:16,160
That's a remarkable coincidence.
Now, clearly they can't all be

1443
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:19,880
right, but an atheist suggests
they're all wrong.

1444
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:24,240
Is it just an interpretation of
the same thing in different

1445
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:25,760
ways?
And then, you know, religions as

1446
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:28,160
they do anything that controls
people gets manipulated,

1447
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:32,320
etcetera, etcetera, and they
they form these different

1448
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:34,880
things.
But, but the sheer fact that

1449
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:40,600
every, every civilization finds
deity and why is that?

1450
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:42,440
That's, that's a fascinating
concept.

1451
01:17:42,440 --> 01:17:46,800
And so I, you know, I, I wonder
if science is actually leading

1452
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:49,480
us to a place of, of
reacquainting ourselves with,

1453
01:17:49,480 --> 01:17:51,800
with, with this Mystic side of
the universe.

1454
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:56,320
If you like, and, and through
quantum and, and, and, you know,

1455
01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:59,240
sacred geometry and these sorts
of places that they're fucking

1456
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:00,880
awesome.
There's there's so much cool

1457
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:02,600
shit.
Do do you ever worry?

1458
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:04,040
I've thought a bit about this
lately.

1459
01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:07,600
You go back sort of 3 or 400
years and you think about, say,

1460
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:11,520
Europe, the Catholic Church,
people like Galileo getting

1461
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:14,360
completely chastised because
they didn't agree and he was

1462
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:18,880
coming from a scientific sort of
basis and that wasn't what the

1463
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:23,640
herd thought was right.
And I reflect on like where we

1464
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:26,800
are today, and this is really
paraphrasing.

1465
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:29,800
People's far smarter than I am,
but they think about their

1466
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:33,720
scientific community and how
much people can be chastised for

1467
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,360
climate change, like you said
earlier, and thinking different.

1468
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:37,920
Is that something you think
about much?

1469
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,440
It's a huge.
Issue it's like anyone who says

1470
01:18:40,440 --> 01:18:44,440
the science is settled is
immediately unscientific Science

1471
01:18:44,440 --> 01:18:49,640
by definition is the constant re
questioning of of kind of

1472
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:54,400
assumptions and and anything
that has a forward prognosis,

1473
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:57,200
which climate change does, you
can't say it's it's never

1474
01:18:57,200 --> 01:18:59,640
settled.
It's all, it's, it's, it's

1475
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:02,720
correlation, causation.
These are all models and

1476
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:04,120
guesswork.
And, you know, I grew up, I

1477
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:08,400
mean, you guys would have
experienced acid rain and CFCS

1478
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:12,080
and, you know, we, we, we moved
from 1 fatalist concept to the

1479
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:14,080
next.
And it happens at this time.

1480
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:15,240
They've called it climate
change.

1481
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,400
I, I, I think that, yeah, yeah,
there probably is correlation

1482
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:20,400
around global warming.
Is that going to eat the planet,

1483
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:20,960
love?
No.

1484
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:24,240
The planet's had heaps of carbon
throughout its history, much

1485
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:27,000
higher than it does today.
Got on just fine.

1486
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:29,600
Crop yields actually go higher
places greener.

1487
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:32,440
Like I, I, I think we're going
to get in a, in a, in a

1488
01:19:32,440 --> 01:19:36,560
conversation that's hopefully
far more open minded and, and

1489
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:40,320
questions things and even like
COVID and you know, I feel like,

1490
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:44,080
and I don't want to sound too
conspiratorial, I'm sure I do.

1491
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:47,520
I'm sure I'll get lots of shit
for this, but I, I think you,

1492
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:51,000
you have to question a lot of
the authority regimes in the

1493
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,520
West and how, you know,
groupthink gets applied and

1494
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:56,200
you're not allowed to question
things.

1495
01:19:56,200 --> 01:19:58,360
Well, as it turns out, like a
lot of those questions were

1496
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:03,480
pretty fucking well founded.
So, so yeah, I think, I hope

1497
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:07,360
that we are in a place where we
can have more honest

1498
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:10,600
conversations around things that
aren't set, they aren't defined.

1499
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:13,980
We're constantly learning.
We should be constantly re

1500
01:20:13,980 --> 01:20:16,920
evaluating.
And that's OK, Uncertainty is

1501
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:19,040
fine.
I think humans very naturally

1502
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:21,360
gravitate towards this want for
certainty.

1503
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:24,600
And it's a bullshit illusion.
They're, they're the only

1504
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:26,240
certainty we have is
uncertainty.

1505
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:29,680
And, and we have to just live
with probabilistic estimations.

1506
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:34,560
There are no actual hard things.
I, I, I mean, like, like you

1507
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:36,760
said, 400 years ago, everybody
thought the Earth was flat,

1508
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:39,560
right?
That was like the best minds on

1509
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:42,560
Earth assumed that that was the
correct way of thinking.

1510
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:44,320
When you look at that now, it's
like laughable.

1511
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:45,960
These weren't unintelligent
people.

1512
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:49,880
We haven't like remarkably
gotten smarter over 400 years.

1513
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:53,040
There was, it was just dogmatic
thinking.

1514
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:56,920
And I hope that I think, I think
the connectivity of the

1515
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:59,000
Internet.
I think things like podcasts,

1516
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:04,680
like I'm really, I feel like
media has LED us down in so many

1517
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:06,400
ways.
It's become such a part of the

1518
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:09,520
establishment.
And I feel like now there's so

1519
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:12,880
many more ways to connect and
have conversations that are a

1520
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:16,960
bit awkward and a bit difficult,
but be far more open minded

1521
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:21,120
around possible outcomes.
And I reckon that's that's such

1522
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:22,840
an awesome thing.
You guys are like, case in

1523
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:25,240
point, you guys are literally a
case study in that you know,

1524
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:28,240
you, you.
And I think when I first even

1525
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:30,320
rang you guys and said, Oh,
fuck, I would really love to

1526
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:33,560
meet you because I the thing I
love, the thing I was drawn to

1527
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:36,240
was like, you're having
conversations in the open that

1528
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:38,200
we were all having behind closed
doors.

1529
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,800
No one was brave enough to come
out and talk publicly about a

1530
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:45,640
bunch of this analysis.
And, and, and, you know, I think

1531
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:49,200
that's an awesome thing like
transparency and back to like

1532
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:54,760
Elon and Doji, transparency
brings awareness and awareness

1533
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:56,840
brings change.
And all we're trying to do, I

1534
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:58,800
think is a species is just get
better.

1535
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:01,080
I think we can all agree on
that.

1536
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:05,920
And I think the key elements to
that are transparency, awareness

1537
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:10,320
and change.
And I think the modern era is

1538
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:12,800
bringing the, those levels of
transparency.

1539
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:16,280
We're no longer getting dictated
to by, by governments and

1540
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:18,800
central organizations.
And I reckon that's a fucking

1541
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:21,240
remarkably good thing.
The smaller we can make

1542
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:24,080
governments, the better.
The more efficient we can make

1543
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:27,960
them, the better.
The more we can freethink and,

1544
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:31,840
and innovate and, and be human,
the better.

1545
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:35,080
So yeah, I'm pumped.
I, I, I love where we're going.

1546
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:36,640
It feels very uncomfortable for
some people.

1547
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:39,800
I, I, it blows my mind that very
rational people feel very

1548
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:41,480
uncomfortable about these
things.

1549
01:22:41,480 --> 01:22:43,840
I think that's.
A pretty mystical place to end

1550
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:47,440
the conversation, Rusty Price.
It's been an absolute pleasure

1551
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:50,560
having the both of you to
explore this new territory.

1552
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:52,640
Thanks.
So much for for having us and

1553
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:55,480
thanks so much for being open to
having these chats.

1554
01:22:55,480 --> 01:22:58,760
Made it I I love it.
Appreciate it guys, anytime.

1555
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:00,920
Gents, thank you so much for the
route.

1556
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:07,960
Right, there you go, Rusty's
looking better than ever.

1557
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:12,320
It was plenty for for people to
chew on in there.

1558
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:16,160
It should have got me thinking.
All right, so I reckon we can,

1559
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:18,640
we can leave it at that.
And I'm keen to hear what the

1560
01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:20,920
money miners think.
There was, there was so much in

1561
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:23,960
that, such a a different style
of conversation.

1562
01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:28,320
So it's good to to hear what
people like Rusty and like Bryce

1563
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:31,240
think about the the industry and
where it's going and everything.

1564
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:34,200
I it was a truly wild
conversation.

1565
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:36,960
I thought, yeah.
I was, I was watching CNBC last

1566
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:38,960
night.
They had Jensen Hong on from

1567
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:46,280
NVIDIA and mate, is the, the
feeling you get talking about

1568
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:49,560
their growth and everything with
their IR chips that they've got.

1569
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:54,600
And that it is, yeah, it's
friggin interesting to listen

1570
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:56,640
to.
So you're talking about NVIDIA

1571
01:23:56,640 --> 01:24:00,160
growth outlook.
It's like, well, they're leading

1572
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:03,280
the pack with these friggin AI
chips that are all going to be

1573
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:06,720
feeding these data centres.
So yeah, it is a fascinating

1574
01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:08,640
industry.
Without.

1575
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:11,880
Doubt without doubt came to see
what it does to does to our

1576
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:13,040
industry.
Hey, yeah.

1577
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:16,160
Very much so right there's you
don't need AI to get 100 bucks

1578
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,400
off an Aussie MMM underground
operators ticket.

1579
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:20,200
You don't need it.
Go to the link in the show

1580
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:22,160
notes.
That's coming up soon mate.

1581
01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:26,480
We've also got mate, we've got
JRX discounts for the Osmo and

1582
01:24:26,480 --> 01:24:30,760
Aussie MMM conference in Brizzy
in mate mate, there's just

1583
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:33,840
discounts flying everywhere, 190
or 160 off that.

1584
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,680
If you remember right.
You know, our great partners as

1585
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:40,240
always that just I don't need to
do discounts because they're so

1586
01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:41,840
bloody good, but they'll
probably do it anyway.

1587
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:46,400
Mineral mining services grounded
CNB ground sports CRE insurance

1588
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:50,800
guy drill WA water balls Swig
Quattro project engineering

1589
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:55,920
cross boundary energy.
The information contained in

1590
01:24:55,920 --> 01:24:58,720
this episode of Money of Mine is
of general nature only and does

1591
01:24:58,720 --> 01:25:01,480
not take into account the
objectives, financial situation

1592
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:03,560
or needs of any particular
person.

1593
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:06,880
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

1594
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:09,960
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

1595
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:13,680
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.