Lots of confusion with Liontown... and with Money of Mine

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JD.
Hey mate, it going on?

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Not been looking forward to this
one.

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Not at all.
Not at all.

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It's been, yeah, an interesting
past little, little period.

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And yeah, first and first and
foremost, we'll just address the

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the elephant in the room, the
the big presence that's not on

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the show today.
And yeah, a massive thank you

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to, to Maddie.
He's no doubt been integral to,

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to what we've done today.
I will, yeah, certainly miss

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and, and absolutely learnt A
heap from his, you know, his,

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his humour, his character, his,
his energy, his liveliness, his

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underground mining knowledge.
You know, the the list could go,

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could go on.
His enthusiasm to pick up the

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phone to, to, to get in touch
with people to, to make things

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happen.
Yeah, it was a blast.

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It was an awesome run we had and
obviously at a bit of a

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crossroads now, but.
How have you been, how you been

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thinking and reflecting in the
last few days?

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Yeah, lot, lot, a lot to reflect
on.

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I think it wouldn't be any
surprise to to anyone listening

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out there that Maddie's the
natural podcaster, not not

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myself.
And yeah, plenty to to Stew on

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for, for all of us and just have
a think about what we want to do

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going forward.
And as with the podcast, looking

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back over the past couple years,
I think the the guiding light is

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like, what what interests us?
What, what do we want to talk

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about if that is on a podcast or
what do we want to do with our

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time?
How about yourself?

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Yeah, it kind of sucks.
The yeah, this week sucks.

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Few last few weeks have sucked.
2 odd years ago, we kind of, we

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all, we gave this a crack and we
were lucky enough to, to find an

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audience that resonated with
the, the content that we

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collectively put out there.
And I think our audience kind

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of, you know, grew accustomed
to, to the, to the style that

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was largely a, a style that, you
know, Maddie kind of made magic

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in, in his, his, his charm and
his way that he, that he does.

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And that was the thing that kind
of, you know, you and I were

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drawn to when we when we wanted
to start, I mean mine too with

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Maddie was the way that he can
kind of bring out, he can, he

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can bring out a really like he
can just make everyone of these

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when he talks to them and he can
bring out that kind of energy

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that he does combine that with a
bit of finance and I and you and

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I thought that would be wicked
content and an audience kind of

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built around that.
Can't believe that anyone would

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would sort of listen, listen to
myself.

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I think it's mainly driven by
yourself trap and and what

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Maddie brought to the to the
podcast and just endlessly

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thankful for for the opportunity
people listening provided.

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And that extends to the
fantastic partners that we've

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had that that made it all
possible, made us, you know,

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able to, to meet the people we
did, able to do what we did, do

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it kind of on, on our terms,
which was fantastic.

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I don't.
I don't, I think there was a

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time in the last couple of years
where we envisaged doing a

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podcast without Maddie and here
we are.

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A few questions have come in
when what are you doing with the

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podcast?
When's when's the show?

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What are you guys doing to that?
I think like we are, yeah,

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we're, we're, we're winding
content frequency down for sure.

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We sort of, you know, we're
committed to doing two to three

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shows a week for the remainder
of May, June, next financial

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year.
Kind of everything's on the

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table a bit.
I, I don't know.

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It's, it's an opportunity to
reflect on, on what the podcast

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is, but I know you and I work.
We're kind of keen to focus on a

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lot more on the written parts of
the business as well, like

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really growing the director
special, putting time and effort

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into into that.
Maybe peeling back a bit from

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the public light as much
recognizing that a lot of people

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still have desire for the type
of content we put out there.

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And, and I think we're kind of
open to exploring like what what

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that is.
It's going to be different.

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There's no doubt.
There's no way the taste and

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flavour of our podcast is going
to be the same.

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There's no like we, we've always
said it for like longest of time

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there.
There is only one Matt Michael.

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And if the the type of person
that he is, there's only one of

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him.
Undoubtedly agree.

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It's a it's a natural point in
time to to, to reassess and, and

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like, like I mentioned, just
think about what is what is most

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appealing?
What is the what's it that

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really grabs your time, makes
you jump out of bed in the

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morning?
I know you're the same.

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I know Maddie loves being pumped
for for the challenge and and

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the challenge that he's got
next.

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So yeah, that's that's all part
of it.

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The the underlying kind of, you
know, values point of difference

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of of what the podcast is that
stays the same or the what money

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of mine is.
But you know, all all of our

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mediums, that's the that's the
same.

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We're committed to unbiased, you
know, unconflicted commentary

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analysis on, you know, the
mining news that matters in

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financial markets.
That's kind of what we do, what

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we look at, where, yeah, where
we think we can be

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differentiated and add value and
what we think people like.

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But we want to focus on the
stuff that is most valuable.

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We've got less, yeah, less
manpower, less like natural

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podcasting, you know, that
personality, all that sort of

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stuff.
But I'm just super keen to know

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what the audience wants as well.
To to everything's a bit on the

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cards.
We we've got.

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Yeah, we, we recognize our, our,
the audience that is here and

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does listen and acknowledge that
it's probably going to change

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now too.
There'll be people that aren't

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interested in continuing to
listen or, or might want to

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listen more, whatever.
But the, the audience we have is

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wicked and to the extent we've
got that audience, like want to

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give them the most value that we
can in the way that we think is

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like most appropriate given our
industry.

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But I want to know what they
want as well.

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Like I, I'd love as much
feedback as possible from

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everyone.
If you're a new listener or a

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long time listener, just e-mail
us.

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You can, you can reach both of
us by emailing GC at

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moneyofmine.com and let us know
your thoughts, your feedback,

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what you'd like to see more of.
We might experiment with some

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new stuff.
We might, might try some stuff

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that doesn't land.
I think it's going to take a

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while for us to find out Groove.
And we just ask for your

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patience as we as we do that.
The future's a bit uncertain,

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but but we're, yeah, we're, we
are going to look forward in an

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optimistic way.
We're eager to eager to hear,

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eager to learn, and want to have
a good think about what happens

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going forward.
One, one other part about all of

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the business changes here, we're
dialing back, dialing back the

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content frequency.
We're, you know, focusing more

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on on on written Yeah.
A a consequence of all of this

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kind of restructuring and, and
and shuffling that that has has

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happened at money of mine means
that we've only got a wonderful

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LEGC with us for a for a few
more weeks.

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But wanted to like express a
very sincere like gratitude and

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thanks to to Ali for the
tremendous tenure that she's

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like given us and tremendous
reliability, tremendous output,

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tremendous ethic, tremendous
analysis, tremendous like

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everything about what Ali does
is tremendous, but super, super

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grateful and thankful for
everything Ali's done.

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Money mine goes from 4 down to
two by the end of this month.

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JD But but I think that you
know, the impact that both

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Maddie and Ellie have had on on,
on money of mine will certainly

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kind of live on beyond both of
their their involvements in our

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business.
Yeah, Ellie, you took a risk on

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us.
You have been, you know, ever,

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ever dependent.
You've been a phenomenal part

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part of the business, the value
you've added, you know, the

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business, the the the podcast,
the newsletter would not have

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been what it was without you.
And we are, you know, all all

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three of us are just endlessly
thankful.

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And yeah, we need, we are
confident that the future is

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very bright for for the talented
person you are.

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So thanks, thanks for.
Hey, Paley.

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She won't be a free agent for
long, so get in touch with her

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if you want to hire her.
That is, that is for.

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Sure.
All right, mate.

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Should we talk about some mining
news?

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Yeah.
Get that out the way.

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Let's.
It's been a while since we've

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done a Daily Show or a new show.
It has been and there is a fair

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bit going on.
I'm, I'm very curious mate.

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I, I, I look at, I look at like
the stocks that have moved every

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day and lawntown keeps going up.
It's on an absolute raw like the

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the last week or so.
It is.

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So market cap is close to to 1.9
a bit below that now sort of up

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and down ish day today.
That's an enterprise value of a

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bit under 2 1/2 billion dollars,
a big number for all the

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question marks around the
company.

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So the share price is call it 75
ish since it's been bouncing

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around a little bit.
So a far cry from from the good

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old days, but it's a it's a hell
of a run since the lows of of

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April.
Just look at that chart there.

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Remarkable.
All the while, lithium price

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seems to grind to new lows.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's pretty

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sombering for for all the
players in the lithium space.

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Looking at that.
If you look at the Platts price

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US 660 for 6% spot fast markets
quoted 685 S just a few months

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back.
We were we were in the mid 8

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hundreds and I think there was a
few very interesting dynamics at

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play regarding the futures
market and and what was going on

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with various players in the
market.

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And we're going to release an
interview over the next couple

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of days that actually taps into
that a little bit.

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So I'll put a pin into that for
now.

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But online town, obviously
you've got the the ramifications

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for future earnings of this
price, but you could also have a

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couple price adjustments given
the way they sell product like a

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lot of bulks, bulk sellers,
meaning by the time the the

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product actually reaches the
buyer, there could be a bit of

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an adjustment there.
So yeah, that that's a tough

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blow to take for the company.
But nevertheless, they've just

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got to got to push on.
Give me a recap on like where

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where Lion Towns OPS are at
right now.

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Yeah, Let's give a bit of a run
through on this.

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I think it's a good question
before we get into to the cash

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flow on the the state of the
business.

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So as we discussed when we, we
last spoke about the company,

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which I think was right after
just briefly after the

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quarterly, we had a little chin
wag about them and there was a a

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sort of clear lack of visibility
on costs given where they are

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ramp up, not having called
commercial production at the at

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the mine, all these sorts of
things.

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So every punter is eagle eyed
on, on what costs are going to

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be and it's kind of hard to get
a clear read through given the

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accounting treatment at the
moment.

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So operationally, things still
have been moving forward.

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They've got call it, 3/4 of a
year left of the open pit.

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They've started pulling out dirt
from underground and I guess

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they'll call FY20 6 another sort
of transition year as they

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become a fully underground
miner.

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Clearly, they have used the
accounting tools at their

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disposal, tools, tools as anyone
would in their in their

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position.
Sustaining CapEx is 1 sort of

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point of note.
They've got a bit of catching up

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to do, which they spoke about in
in the quarterly expecting

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potentially 3X the amount that
was spent in Q3 of this

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financial year to be spent in
this quarter.

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So that it could be a figure in
the $45,000,000 range.

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Now they they did discuss
potentially pushing that down

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the road.
You know, these these sorts of

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things you can't push down
indefinitely.

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That was sort of spend at the
plant as well as a, a cutback

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that had to be done.
Now given where they're at, like

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I mentioned with open pit that
can't be pushed back too much

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further, but their language was
a bit sort of cautious here.

223
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,000
So we'll see.
But that'll have impacts on all

224
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,720
in sustaining costs.
Now obviously they were eager to

225
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,520
show that all in sustaining
costs had had a step down at

226
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,520
that things were progressing in
the right direction.

227
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,320
And they also spoke that they
would make their guidance and

228
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,280
that guidance had been given for
the half year that we're

229
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,160
currently.
So I would be expecting OpEx in

230
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,400
the ballpark for this quarter
around 900 bucks to balance out

231
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,440
that that would see them meet
the high end of their guidance

232
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,480
which was kind of call it 850
is.

233
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,840
That Aussie US.
That is Aussie, yeah.

234
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,880
Yeah.
So all of this makes operational

235
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:48,880
cash flow or positive
operational cash flow in

236
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,320
quotation marks harder to
achieve.

237
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,440
Now obviously this isn't a
figure you really want to focus

238
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,800
on because money is spent on the
investing part of the, the cash

239
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,120
flow statement, but it is
something that they have

240
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,800
emphasized in the part in the
past.

241
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,880
And there was also work done on,
on stockpiles, movements done on

242
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,600
stockpiles concentrate at port,
which they sort of speak to

243
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,920
which you know, as as the
company ramps up, it's just

244
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,480
going to be part of life and
that they are going to draw down

245
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,640
on those stockpiles as they
transition.

246
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,400
That's that's a known thing.
But you're always kind of going

247
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,880
to have concentrate at port and
these sorts of things.

248
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,760
And yeah, shipments will slip
into the next quarter.

249
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:29,000
That's, that's part of being a,
a bulk operator and and just the

250
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,920
logistics involved.
They're going to get to higher

251
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,840
grade dirt as well, which
they've already started to do.

252
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:38,440
As I mentioned, pulling stuff
from underground now per ton

253
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,000
that's going to be sort of more
valuable product they're pulling

254
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,160
out.
But obviously it's going to come

255
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,680
with with higher costs as they
go.

256
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:48,240
So they have to face up to that.
But they did mention the 1.5%

257
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,040
grade product that they're
pulling from underground, which

258
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,000
perverse the the reserve is
quite high.

259
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,520
They think they can maintain
that through FY20 6 now that

260
00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,160
that would be quite an
achievement that would be good

261
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,040
for seeing them through.
Although I think in time you

262
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,800
know things are going to mediate
and it'll track back down and to

263
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,600
average out below that sort of
1.3 ish percent measured grade

264
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,440
that they've they've got down
there with all.

265
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,560
Things, mate, it's, it's cash
flow that that really matters

266
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,040
here.
And yeah, especially ramp up,

267
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,040
it's like, yeah, Cash, Cash
flow, cash management, cash

268
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,080
funding flexibility.
Yeah, how?

269
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,800
How, how are they coming?
Cash flow is all that matters

270
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,720
and you know like like we spoke
about accounting, you can do

271
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,720
what you can do right, but it's
all going to come out in the

272
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,040
wash sooner or later and that's
what all the analysts are

273
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,560
focused on.
I'm going to play a a question

274
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,080
from the quarterly a couple
weeks back to give you a bit of

275
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,000
a give listeners a bit of a
sense of where they're kind of

276
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,120
at.
If I just look at the cash flow

277
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,440
statement for the quarter, $94
million roughly spent excluding

278
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,280
the.
Money on CapEx and there's

279
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,720
obviously a little bit of
sustaining in that, but but if I

280
00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:00,600
take the top 94,000,000 and
divide by your SC 6 volume, I

281
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,000
actually get closer to 1200
Aussie A tonne, not the 1100 is

282
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,440
is that because you're
capitalizing some costs that are

283
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,960
not coming through so on a.
True cash basis, it's actually

284
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,080
higher than what you're
reporting.

285
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,120
Let me look, Glenn, perhaps I'll
give you a call after this.

286
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,440
That's a that's a tricky
question to answer on the fly.

287
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,680
I can certainly assure you that
AISC is calculated correctly.

288
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,320
If there is some differences to
to cash flow, obviously you've

289
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,520
got the differences between cash
and accrual.

290
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:43,040
So not the most convincing
response on on the part of Lyon

291
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,720
town.
I mean, it was a it was a blunt

292
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,120
question.
It was a great question from,

293
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,000
from Glenn as as always.
But yeah, I think, I think money

294
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,280
miners can sort of read into
that what they want it, you

295
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,640
know, the the job is in front of
them and they've got a bit of

296
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,560
work to do.
Daddy, I'm feeling I'm feeling a

297
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,520
different style of ad today and
we're we're not Maddie.

298
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:07,119
We can't bring his same X Factor
when delivering the pizzazz in

299
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,319
in ads promoting sponsors of of
our show.

300
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:11,760
The energy doesn't feel right
today.

301
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:18,359
It doesn't it doesn't and and I
don't think anyone can do ads

302
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,680
like Maddie either thought that
is a a a special talent.

303
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,839
But it's yeah, it's been it's
been a somber week.

304
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:30,800
I so I think in in lieu of the
the two money of mine ads today

305
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,440
that we'd ordinarily do in a
show, I'm kind of just came to

306
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,560
use the time to genuinely thank
and highlight two of our long

307
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:45,600
term sponsors of money of mine.
The first first is K Drill JDII

308
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,360
think K Drill were our second
ever sponsor from my memory.

309
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,960
That's it.
September 2023 or maybe August

310
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,760
if my memory is serving me, I.
Reckon it was.

311
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,480
I reckon it was August.
I think it was August.

312
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,600
Early yeah they were pipped they
were that yeah Sheamus at any

313
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,080
time got in first yeah.
But Kaiju were not legend.

314
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,640
Oh, right there.
And they reached out to us

315
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,560
around a similar time at least
like nearly two years ago.

316
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,800
And you, you remember what it
was like those first few months

317
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,720
of the podcast trying to get
traction.

318
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,240
We, we had no real idea if there
was a, a business model we

319
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,200
could, we could wrap around it,
but we knew there'd be no

320
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,480
business model if we didn't have
traction.

321
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,960
So we were just focusing on.
Shaking behind the microphone.

322
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,480
Yeah, we.
Were focusing on just trying to

323
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,080
put out some good content and
build build build listenership

324
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,680
but not not thinking too much
about the business model at that

325
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,400
point in time.
But they came and backed us and

326
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,160
they've backed us ever since and
we are unbelievably thankful for

327
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,640
that support.
It's been, it's been, it's been

328
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,040
a hell of a journey and they've
been, you know, week after week

329
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,240
after week with us there and we
are, we are so thankful to, to

330
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:49,960
cater for that.
Big time, mate.

331
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,480
It was like those early mining
services companies all the way

332
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:58,920
back then that kind of changed
the game for us because all of a

333
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,720
sudden we, well, we certainly
didn't think we'd have the

334
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,560
ability to monetize, to show in
a way that would actually pay

335
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,200
the bills with mining services
companies and remain completely

336
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,320
unbiased and all that sort of
stuff.

337
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,040
We thought we'd have to build
out a subscription component,

338
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,240
puts up on paywall, all those
sorts of things.

339
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,120
But it was the, the backing from
like, you know, yeah.

340
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:18,880
Like the, the Paddy's, the
Ryan's of K Drill, the early

341
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,560
days that was unreal.
Then the myth of Ryan O'Sullivan

342
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,240
was born.
And we've always had a bunch of

343
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,720
fun talking about K drill.
They've been like tremendously

344
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,680
good spirited and having two
years of tenure and duration and

345
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,240
backing kind of entire time is,
is is remarkable.

346
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,760
We're super grateful.
Yeah, they, they let us have fun

347
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,160
with it and it was, it was
awesome.

348
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,960
So yeah, a big thank you to to
Kay Drew, the team there for for

349
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,280
everything over the past couple
years.

350
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,480
Secondly, JD Sandvik, ground
support.

351
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,400
But back when they kicked off
sponsoring us, they were still

352
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,520
called DSI Underground.
Before the big acquisition?

353
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,600
Before, before the big Sandwich
acquisition, they came aboard

354
00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,840
November 2023.
So it's only a couple months

355
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,360
after Cadre, which is a long,
that's like 18 months ago,

356
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:04,720
right?
Been with us a long time.

357
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,640
A long time, Derek Heard who
heads up the the business.

358
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,520
It's now the business division
of Sandvik Grant.

359
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,480
It's it's possibly the
friendliest guy in mining.

360
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,840
He he's just an absolute
pleasure every time you're with

361
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,400
him.
He's got phenomenal energy.

362
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,120
He's like chirpy, he's cheer.
He's like, it's just awesome.

363
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,920
And despite being the
friendliest guy in mining JD,

364
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,120
when, when, when we when we
called our sponsors up and

365
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:34,680
notified them of the changes
money of mine, I'm still nervous

366
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:39,000
about telling Derek, not because
he's a a grumpy guy, but because

367
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,800
it's DSI.
It's it's ground support.

368
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,520
Like we've lost our underground
miner.

369
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,000
We're not.
Yeah, we're, we're, we're

370
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,000
finance guys.
We're going to be talking about

371
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:50,920
ground support.
The best ground support in the.

372
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,960
Business the best ground support
in the business and Derek was

373
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,760
wicked.
He was yeah like the the you're

374
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,560
just a legend to to kind of put
his own continued yeah, trust

375
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,720
and support behind us to to to
really kind of support them.

376
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:05,800
You know what what we've built
and and think that there's a

377
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,600
future in it, even if we're
going to be financed.

378
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,160
Guys talking about ground
support.

379
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,400
He's he's he's yeah, that meant
a lot.

380
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,240
It was it was a wicked I think
it was a it speaks volumes to

381
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,400
the type guy.
Derek is the team and business

382
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,880
culture that they've got there
at Sandy Ground Support and why

383
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,440
they are truly the best ground
support mate.

384
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:29,320
Absolutely, thank you from from
all of us over over this period.

385
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,960
You know the the support that
they provide, like they provide

386
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,720
the industry just phenomenal.
But you know, DSI now, now Sandy

387
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,720
Ground support, you guys have
been awesome.

388
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,680
It's been great getting to, to
meet parts of the team as well

389
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,800
when they've sort of been in
been in Perth and whatnot.

390
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,720
And yeah, massive thank you to
to Kay drill sandwich ground

391
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,760
support and and all that sort of
partners over the journey.

392
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,360
We are.
Yeah, we really mean it.

393
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,360
Big time.
If you focus in on that cash,

394
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,880
where is it today?
So cash is at a bit over 170

395
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,560
million bucks right now.
Now people might have read they

396
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,560
just got 15,000,000 bucks in the
door via a government loan that

397
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,440
is unsecured from the government
interest free cash, very, very

398
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,240
friendly sort of stuff.
Plus they got a free kick on

399
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,000
port charges and certain
tenement fees for a kind of

400
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,800
undefined spell.
But repayments will start mid

401
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,880
next year at at the latest.
So very friendly from from our

402
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,520
state looking out for a local
miner.

403
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,080
There were, there was sort of
talk that you know, and some

404
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,080
analysts had penciled in that
they might get up to 50.

405
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:34,640
So on that front, it was a bit
of a blow against expectations,

406
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,800
but it is what it is.
They're also looking and in

407
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,920
talks with EFA to release this
$25 million kind of bond.

408
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,280
Think of it kind of restricted
cash that they have over a power

409
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:51,000
contract with Zenith.
So that 25 bucks not included in

410
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,720
the 170 number that I mentioned,
but they are hoping that they

411
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,280
can free that up and use
something else as security.

412
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,480
Can they add any more?
Any more debt?

413
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,800
They can add up to 100 bucks if
they if they want, they can sort

414
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,520
of get that through with their
existing facilities.

415
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,760
I mean that reading into that
kind of gives an indication of

416
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,960
their view towards a capital
raise.

417
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,520
But you know, that's the Max
allowed and we'll see if that is

418
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,880
actually a possibility in time.
All that's to say, I wouldn't be

419
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,600
surprised if the actual cash
balance all things considered is

420
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,600
sort of in the low $100 million
range come the end of the the

421
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,280
financial year.
Looking forward a year though

422
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,360
things you know, if you flush
through a spot which granted is

423
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:43,640
is pretty low, but they would be
severely negative.

424
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,040
If we do see a tick up, maybe
they can be in a positive cash

425
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:53,280
position come June 2026.
But yeah, question Marks and

426
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,960
obviously huge talk to to what
the commodity price does.

427
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:02,000
This is, this is yeah, kind of
irrespective of what has been

428
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:07,000
impressive operational outcomes
like there's no kind of denying

429
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,560
that there's there's a lot of
operational wins that line downs

430
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,960
had, but the reality of the
market, the reality of kind of

431
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,400
cost, irrespective of how much
you've grown performance, it

432
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,120
looks tough in these at these
lithium prices.

433
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,080
Yeah.
I mean, we've, we've got to talk

434
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,560
about debt and where the debt
position is at because that's

435
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,280
that's half the reason they're
in this pickle, right.

436
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,680
So total debt is just under $750
million.

437
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,640
The Fords facility, Aussie, 300
million when they first signed

438
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,720
it up.
Principal repayments are going

439
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,040
to start in the September
quarter.

440
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,160
Now we don't know exactly
because there's a balloon

441
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,520
payment at the end.
They haven't revealed exactly

442
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,000
what's going to be paid.
OK, Yeah, but you're going to

443
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,320
have cash interest payments as
well, which they indicated at $4

444
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,280
million per quarter, so
16,000,000 bucks for the year as

445
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,720
that won't be capitalized
anymore.

446
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,080
So a lot of money going and you
bet they are negotiating and

447
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,240
they're trying to work something
out.

448
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,920
I don't think they have all the
cards in that negotiation, but.

449
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,960
Let's be tricky to pay interest
on that one.

450
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,960
It's yeah, pretty friendly.
Pretty friendly already.

451
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,000
Yeah, I just want to keep that
the Bank rate plus 1 1/2% that's

452
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,360
yeah friendly.
So anything you won't be won't

453
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:14,680
be quite as nice, right?
Yeah.

454
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,880
Then you've got the LG facility
Uus 250 million, that's a

455
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,520
convertible note with a five
year maturity.

456
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,560
They of course signed that one
up last year and they can

457
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,480
capitalize interest until mid
next year.

458
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,720
As Tony O put it, the covenants
on these are very, very

459
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,000
flexible.
They've also got to that figure

460
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,320
to to kind of round you up to
$750 million, fifty million that

461
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,000
has been capitalized over the
periods since they they signed

462
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,240
them up.
So yeah, hence hence our

463
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,320
previous discussions about debt
in a single asset company.

464
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,000
It's it's where it kind of leads
you, unfortunately.

465
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,880
So if, if everything's kind of
like not changed so much on the

466
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,160
cash, right on the cash funding,
why, why is the stock ripping?

467
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,240
Why?
What's going on with evaluation?

468
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,520
It's, it's a super interesting
one, right?

469
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,240
It's, it's hard to, because
we're, we're having this

470
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,400
conversation, aren't we, about
like whether they can kind of

471
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,680
break even and, and what price
they can kind of break even at.

472
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,960
I feel that's the framing of a
lot of these discussions, but

473
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,880
it's kind of only half valid
when you've got this, this debt

474
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,440
balance.
And maybe it becomes more valid

475
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,200
if lenders can see light at the
end of the tunnel and they can

476
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,520
refinance you and these sorts of
things.

477
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,960
But I mean, look at the broker
valuations as a bit of a, a

478
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,320
guide, given that, you know,
it's forbidden to put a cell on

479
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,640
unless you've got no corporate
work happening.

480
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:35,800
You still see a lot of
underweights.

481
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,960
You see some cells, you see
neutrals.

482
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,200
Can I call it to go hold?
I think they're on a sell now.

483
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:48,400
Yeah, unheard of stuff.
So yeah, it, it's those sorts of

484
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,480
things.
I mean, some of them are even

485
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,080
buffeted by a a bit of a
takeover kind of premium if they

486
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,560
factor that in.
But let's cut right to the chase

487
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,840
to to the crux of why we're
having this conversation.

488
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,240
Like why has the stock run so
hard?

489
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,840
It's up 70% in about a month.
If we look at what's happened in

490
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,080
that period, they had a sort of
marginally positive quarterly.

491
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,120
I'd say there has been de
escalation in the trade war

492
00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:16,120
which new energy if you like was
no doubt going to going to get

493
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:18,320
hit to an extent maybe that's
temporary.

494
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,680
The short interest has hovered
at about 12%.

495
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,560
The the run up especially in the
last week has not been for a

496
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,640
lack of volume like the the
volume has been maybe double of

497
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,480
what it has been in in the sort
of previous kind of periods.

498
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:35,400
It's certainly from no tick up
in lithium price as we discussed

499
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,560
like yes, we saw futures in
China jump up a little bit, but

500
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,160
that's not what we've seen on on
Aussie spot.

501
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,480
And yeah, maybe we see a bit of
a bounce.

502
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,720
It's it's tough for converters
in China as well to even make a

503
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,640
margin.
Perhaps to an extent the

504
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,800
movement in the stock is
justified as a a kind of high

505
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,600
beta move given everything
markets around the world have

506
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,520
have bounced back.
A lot of lithium's all

507
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,240
correlated to yeah, it's not the
only stock that's, but it's just

508
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,720
the one that sends out the most.
Absolutely.

509
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,600
And then more specific to, to
Lion Town, again, you've got

510
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,200
this takeover potential.
You know, these, these rumors

511
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,560
have been nonstop for for quite
some time.

512
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,440
Then you've got some more
colorful rumors.

513
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,640
Now, the one that always cracks
me up, mate, is that a pod shop

514
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,800
that was short in this case blew
up.

515
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,720
And I think that is the default
answer where nobody has any clue

516
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,400
what the fuck is going on.
They just say A, a, a.

517
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,880
Pod shop look.
Yeah, yeah, a pod at one of

518
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,000
these, you know, Millenniums or
whoever just blew up.

519
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,080
It's hard to falsify or prove
that one, but it is.

520
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,120
It's quite a funny.
Yeah.

521
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,760
It's a funny when you hear it,
you know that share price

522
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:37,880
doesn't make sense right now.
Yeah.

523
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,120
Yeah.
And then, and then we, we kind

524
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,360
of heard one right.
That is like scraping every

525
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,000
rumour you can possibly find
together.

526
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,640
So that, that's that the pod
blew up.

527
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,120
Yep.
The stock started running.

528
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,840
Then momentum piled in.
And then because momentum piled

529
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,320
in, retail started piling in as
well.

530
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,560
Yep, which you know, I think
and.

531
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,480
Jean is going to buy it.
And Jean is going to buy it on

532
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,720
top.
So yeah, I mean Chuck in another

533
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,080
rumour as well that the upcoming
site visit was cancelled.

534
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:04,520
Yeah, I think that's true.
Yeah.

535
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:05,400
That's not a rumour.
That's true.

536
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,240
Yeah.
June site visit.

537
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,160
Yeah, exactly.
So these are yeah, the little

538
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,000
whispers you need to get people
excited and yeah, and get the

539
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,800
the the bulls running again and
it.

540
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,640
Is it's.
It's a it's a big retail stock.

541
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,480
A lot of retail people like
Online Town.

542
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,560
They've written a wave up,
they've held it down.

543
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,360
They're still invested and can
see it a lot.

544
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,040
And as a result, minimize free
float given the massive

545
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,040
shareholders, which amplifies
what you've just said?

546
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,440
Totally, totally.
The people that are still

547
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,200
holding it, they're like, you
know, holding on for life, you

548
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,080
know, kind of like the
Bitcoiners and yeah, yeah,

549
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,440
exactly.
And the yeah, a little float as

550
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,120
a result of that.
So kind of, yeah, like a little

551
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,600
bit of volume or irregular
volume can move things a fair

552
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:44,800
bit.
Yeah, yeah.

553
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,120
And you've got, you know, other
sort of facts like a lot of the

554
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,720
the trading being done through
ITG, which is a kind of

555
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,720
liquidity provider in the States
that lends a bit of credence to

556
00:29:54,200 --> 00:30:00,440
the the pod rumor as opposed to
like an Aussie broker just doing

557
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,960
the volume there.
Other things we've kind of heard

558
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,400
which we should kind of chat
about is whether they should do

559
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,400
a capital raise or whether we
think that's likely.

560
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,360
You know you can take that
question whichever way you like.

561
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,200
Or alternatively an asset sell
down which is you know you hear

562
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,720
that one a bit less than just an
out and out takeover, but a

563
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,160
takeover is super hard given the
big sizes like the buying can't

564
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,320
really be Gina given limitations
on what she already owns

565
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,840
etcetera.
And then you've got the the

566
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,640
other major shareholder.
So a deal would have to be

567
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,560
friendly.
So I think that nullifies a few

568
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,760
rumors.
Yeah, there's what like I said,

569
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,160
I think like when we heard the
news that the there was interest

570
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,960
from like it was an Indian
capital in acquiring like a

571
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,480
minority stake in SQMS Australia
and lithium like operations.

572
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,640
If, if, if, if some of that
materialized as like a minority

573
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,360
interest in Kathleen Valley,
then like I think that's kind of

574
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,960
that's interesting and that that
maybe maybe that could be a

575
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,080
thing.
But I haven't heard anything to

576
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,200
that effect.
I don't think anyone, like, I

577
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,240
don't think there's a credible
suitor other than Gina here.

578
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,000
And I don't think anyone has
credible insight on what Gina is

579
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,880
thinking or wants to do.
Yeah, cards.

580
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,400
Cards are close to their chest
at Hancock House.

581
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,000
We've tried.
They don't let us.

582
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:24,360
They don't let us find out
anything.

583
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,040
Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a tough
nut to crack.

584
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,400
So I think most people are just
guessing on that front if they

585
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,600
are, you know, sounding, yeah,
educated.

586
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:40,240
But yeah, it it like they just
haven't shown any interest, like

587
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,840
to ever do the capital raise
part of it that they're so

588
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:49,160
reluctant, as you'd kind of
suspect, you know, and I, I, I

589
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,600
think they would find that very
hard to stomach.

590
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,840
No surprise there.
But yeah, that makes me doubt

591
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,040
that.
But maybe I look like an idiot

592
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,200
and they come out and do a do a
capital raise given the tick up,

593
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,560
who knows.
Strategy today has been to to,

594
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,160
yeah, like, like drive costs
lower, minimize spend, endure

595
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,320
and hope that the the market
kind of rebounds, but

596
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,960
interesting the share prices
rebounded, but the market

597
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,880
hasn't.
And yeah, that dislocation is

598
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,080
actually an opportunity to, to
raise capital and have a buffer

599
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,080
if they needed to.
But I don't like to date every

600
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:20,960
time we said they should do
that.

601
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,800
They they haven't.
And I don't have any reason to

602
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,400
think that they'll they'll
change their mind on that.

603
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,880
Yeah, yeah.
So you know, so let's watch this

604
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,440
space like like we sort of said
earlier today, this is one of

605
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,960
the most interesting companies
on the exchange.

606
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,040
It's been for a long time and
came to keep watching the the

607
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,040
ramp up and hope that the team
keeps sort of executing bit by

608
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,320
bit and the the mind kind of
gets there on that front.

609
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,440
I think we should wrap.
It there mate.

610
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,560
Massive thank you to all the the
partners that have been with us.

611
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,080
First up the the conference, the
GRX conference.

612
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,880
Get your tickets.
It's in Brisbane May 20 to May

613
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,280
22nd.
There's a discount in in the

614
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,160
show notes.
Big thank you to to GRX and AUS

615
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,520
mine and extend that thanks to
MMS Grounded Sand, Big Ground

616
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,320
Support, CRE Insurance, K Drew
KCA Site services, Black Diamond

617
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,600
Drilling services and Cross
Boundary Energy.

618
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:21,120
I kind of think the bit that we
might not have done perfect was

619
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,360
just a bit on the.
Future.

620
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:30,800
A bit on what?
Like how to explain it?

621
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:38,800
The bit that kind of taps into
what the the audience might be

622
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,680
thinking about what happened,
thinking about what happened,

623
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,360
thinking about yeah, thinking
about what happened, thinking

624
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:56,080
about yeah.
I don't know, like I think some

625
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,560
things you can keep kind of
internal out of respect to all

626
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,360
involved.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

627
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,440
Yeah.
Like, yeah, people always want,

628
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,159
want inside, you know, they
want, they want a bit of drama,

629
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:11,280
they want a bit of ghost.
But like a lot of things are

630
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,719
kind of person as well.
And I think people, people

631
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,600
respect that.
If you kind of address that to

632
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,280
an extent, like can't some
people avoid it entirely?

633
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:25,199
But like anything other, it
almost feels a bit disingenuous

634
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:29,480
because like, I don't want to
talk about everything that

635
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,320
happened and Maddie doesn't kind
of want that either.

636
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,120
So I don't know, I think
anything other than all of that.

637
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,719
Maybe I'll just find it hard.
To actually talk about it.

638
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,440
But I totally understand that
people will be curious.

639
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,080
Yeah.
And I think like, you know,

640
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:48,920
we've all, we're all grown-ups.
We've made a decision.

641
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:54,719
I think kind of like speaking to
it, you know, whatever.

642
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,920
The opposite of like, ruthless.
Kind of manner is just being

643
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,080
personal about it is it's a
challenge to convey.

644
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,200
Doing so feels like we're
concealing something.

645
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:06,600
Yeah.
And then that's why I.

646
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,080
Think addressing it and saying
like there are things we're not,

647
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,040
we're not going to share out of
respect to all involved.

648
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:15,640
How do you think?
How do you think it'll be

649
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,880
received?
I think there's going to be.

650
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,680
A range of different
interpretations.

651
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,920
Some people will think it's way
too soppy and just get on with

652
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,720
it like some people will.
You know have picked aside.

653
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:34,680
Even though they have no idea
what's going on, some people

654
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,360
will love that.
We, we sort of spoke about it

655
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,520
and shared like honest thoughts
like.

656
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,160
Find it very.
Hard to sort of think about what

657
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:53,200
consensus kind of is, but what?
Yeah, what?

658
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,840
What I kind of is optimal to me.
I think what would make me sleep

659
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:04,040
at night peacefully is knowing
I've spoken very, very highly of

660
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,080
the experience I've had and of
Maddie and acknowledge it was an

661
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,120
awesome run and it's a natural
crossroads.

662
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:17,280
And also acknowledging that, you
know, we might not do the

663
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,160
podcast like that, that that's a
thing, you know, that that is

664
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,760
something we're contemplating
right now.

665
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,000
That's something I want one
included in it because that's a

666
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:30,480
super genuine thought and.
Yeah, I mean a lot of.

667
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,640
Snippets of what we sort of said
before what?

668
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,560
About you How do you?
Sort of think about how it's

669
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:43,480
interpreted.
Oh, it's just.

670
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,400
It's uncomfortable.
And yeah, I don't know, like

671
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:47,840
you, we put out content all the
time.

672
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,280
And even that I'm uncomfortable.
Yeah.

673
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,800
Let alone this the content we
put out.

674
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,440
Is not personal.
And this is like, this is

675
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,360
tremendously personal and and
that's the fear.

676
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,040
It's like the yeah, what?
What is the fear?

677
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,720
Specifically how it's
interpreted or just think it's

678
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:05,800
just like.
Like the?

679
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,720
The interrogation.
Of your character, like the

680
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:18,240
there's assumption about your
character as a result of a like

681
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:20,680
a working relationship.
That's that's you know,

682
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,680
absolutely it's lapsed.
I find that I find that part.

683
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,720
Very interesting because I'm
very at pace.

684
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:28,160
With that part.
Because I've like.

685
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,120
I've got no no regrets.
About how I've carried myself

686
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,240
and if, like, people are going
to make assumptions on stuff

687
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:37,600
they've got no idea about.
People that I've never even met.

688
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,640
And then I couldn't really care
less because I know like, yeah,

689
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,600
maybe on maybe on the margins.
It's kind of annoying for

690
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,800
someone to think you're a
dickhead even though you kind

691
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,280
of, you know, they're wrong or
you think they're wrong.

692
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:49,600
I mean, people can think what
they want.

693
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:58,200
But like, I don't regret, you
know, my actions over over this,

694
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,760
this process at all.
Like, yeah, it would have been

695
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,800
awesome for us to all be doing
or something to be kind of

696
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,120
different about how it's how
it's happened.

697
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:08,920
But.
For some dickhead to write.

698
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,720
A comment on the LinkedIn that
obviously I haven't even looked

699
00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:15,480
at, but I know it's there.
Like I'm not losing sleep over

700
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,080
those sorts of people like as.
Long as like my mates and my

701
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,360
family.
Like know.

702
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:22,520
And think that I carried.
Myself.

703
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,360
Well, that'll have.
Me sleep well at night.

704
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,120
It is what it is, but deeply
uncomfortable talking about this

705
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,760
on the podcast.
Maybe I'll include that snip,

706
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,760
mate.
I genuinely might include that

707
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,520
by the way, because that was
that was genuine as opposed to

708
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,480
like feeling.
Yeah, yeah, it depends if you're

709
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,400
comfortable.
I'm absolutely.

710
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:46,920
Comfortable with you, do you
think?

711
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,800
Do you think we hit home on the
notion that?

712
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,480
Every.
Everything on the table, like

713
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,560
we're tossing up everything, you
know, money of mine as a

714
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,800
company, let alone a podcast,
could be quite a different

715
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,880
thing, yeah.
Yeah.

716
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,240
It might be worth.
Like, yeah, reiterating that

717
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:15,040
point, like the uncertainty with
what the future looks like.

718
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:18,920
Yeah, yeah, the invitation to
anyone to.

719
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,560
Provide input those kinds.
Of things yeah, might be worth

720
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,120
it again, I feel like a lot of
the.

721
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,080
Input is.
The podcast though?

722
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,880
And I guess in a sense, I'm
trying to say that like as we've

723
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,680
kind of discussed, we don't
necessarily know that we will do

724
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,280
a podcast which we mentioned in
the new financial year.

725
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,160
I think the.
The like the reality.

726
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,120
Is like.
There will, there will,

727
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,400
undoubtedly.
Be less shows.

728
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,760
That's like that's a certainty
whether beyond June there is

729
00:39:54,760 --> 00:40:00,440
like one show a week, 2 shows a
week or literally no shows a

730
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,280
week.
Don't don't know.

731
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,080
And if there are, don't know
what it's going to look like,

732
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,760
but.
But yeah, it'll just be you and

733
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,280
I and.
We'll be keen to.

734
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,640
Build tangible value.
Outside of personality and a lot

735
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:23,080
of that's going to come in the
form of of yeah, the director

736
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,680
special, the that kind of stuff.
Yeah, definitely.

737
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,240
It's always been hard with.
It's a podcast as well, right?

738
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,120
Like our faces totally recognize
that.

739
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,080
Unless you're Joe Hogan and you
can.

740
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,040
Get paid 20 million.
Bucks a year or whatever do.

741
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,840
You have any reflections on the?
Business model like that you'd

742
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,360
be speak to when.
We started this like 2 years

743
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:59,400
ago, a bit years ago.
I yeah, speak, speak for myself.

744
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:07,840
Was just keen to do something
entrepreneurial like like yeah

745
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,440
fuck thinking it's going to be a
podcast with.

746
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,480
That took a couple weeks to.
Think through, even though I

747
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,760
said yes, like straight away
like that, that part took a

748
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:26,200
couple weeks that that ties in
with why I have like no regrets

749
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,320
because like, you know, the
people we've met, the

750
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,520
opportunities that have come up,
the experiences we've had, you

751
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,400
know, we got essentially like a
trip paid for to, to go to

752
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:40,600
Sydney to go to South Africa and
stuff like awesome, like.

753
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,880
Wouldn't, wouldn't swap.
Any of that out and like all of

754
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,440
us have have opportunities ahead
of us now because of what we've

755
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,400
done.
Like, yeah, it was all very

756
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,600
public and everything, but
you're doing other business.

757
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,120
It's not a podcast and maybe
you're toiling away for years

758
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,240
and years and years.
It's like in a sense, like if

759
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,840
you look on the bright side of
the road, it was like AI wait a

760
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,200
fast.
Track kind of things.

761
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,160
Yeah.
But I don't.

762
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:11,960
Know reflections on the business
model, yeah.

763
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:14,280
Yeah.
It was.

764
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,160
It was.
Like the pod, the podcast was a

765
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,320
wicked way to get.
Validation that there was

766
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,920
product.
Market fit very soon people

767
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,840
people tuned in and they said
they like the content they that

768
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,200
we didn't have to wait for long
to know that there was like a

769
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:36,600
demand for the content we were
putting out there that like we

770
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,000
did have to wait a few more
months to figure out how to kind

771
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,520
of rapid and ethical business
model around it.

772
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,000
I think like my reflections are
just like the limitations of

773
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,000
that business model in some
respects to like it's a self

774
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,240
like not self perpetrating, but
it's it's like a never if if the

775
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:55,000
entire business model is revenue
driven off producing lots and

776
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,240
lots of content, then you kind
of you're kind of stuck to that.

777
00:42:58,320 --> 00:42:59,880
It's not timeless content.
It's.

778
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:01,320
Not timeless.
We talk about the news.

779
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:07,400
Yeah, yeah, it's a killer and
and the revenue can be like like

780
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,200
good.
You know we our sponsors are

781
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:10,960
phenomenal.
They, you know, they, they pay a

782
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,320
healthy amount, but it's, but
you're kind of stuck to that

783
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,640
business model and it and it's,
and it's bandwidth that kind of

784
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,600
might, might distract you from,
yeah, making like bigger,

785
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,120
bolder, longer term decisions,
working on other parts of the

786
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:24,400
business, all those sorts of
things.

787
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,600
Yeah.
And I think just getting that

788
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,920
balance right.
Going forward, he's he's going

789
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:31,600
to be.
Important.

790
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,880
It's not.
It's not, it's not a four four

791
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,240
show a week thing.
It might be a 0 show a week

792
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:39,760
thing.
It might be a one show a week

793
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:44,840
thing, might be an ad hoc thing.
I've always thought the.

794
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,720
Sickest business model in.
Podcasting was what acquired do.

795
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,440
Yeah.
And that's because I love what

796
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,240
they do.
But one episode a month and in

797
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:55,280
laid up, you just get to read
like 10 books.

798
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,440
Yeah.
And then you're in America.

799
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,120
So it's a freaking massive
audience.

800
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,120
Yeah.
And the content is timeless.

801
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:04,800
Yeah.
And you know.

802
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,200
I'm partial to reading a book.
So they hit the.

803
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,480
Nail on the head, but that's
been 10 years in the making.

804
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,680
For those guys and what they
started out was talking about

805
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:22,000
tech acquisitions.
So yeah, what they do is barely.

806
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,920
Relatable to what they.
Started at It's kind of funny on

807
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,240
a quiet as well because I think
at the end of every year they

808
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:29,880
would speak about the business.
I would sound it so cool.

809
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:32,800
They would do 1 episode.
It was a Christmas special or

810
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,680
whatever they call it, and they
would talk about everything they

811
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:41,200
would talk about there, yada,
yada, yada, or the insurance and

812
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,680
outs.
I think people appreciate that,

813
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:44,240
yeah.
Yeah.

814
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:46,800
I mean, it's like it's
transparency, it's authenticity,

815
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,520
it's yeah.
You're you've bought into them.

816
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,920
That's huge.
It's actually a genius marketing

817
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,400
strategy for them too.
The Authenticity part 100.

818
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,760
Percent, it's such a hit, like
talking about how they felt in

819
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,240
the lead up, kind of like
listening to like an athlete in

820
00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:02,720
the lead up to like the
Champions League final or

821
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:04,240
something, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

822
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:05,960
There's still this one.
Example where?

823
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,000
One of the get one of.
The hosts Dave talks about

824
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,640
leading up to the Nike episode
because he was so pumped about

825
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,920
the company fumbled.
You know, I didn't get my words

826
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:20,680
out right.
I was so excited.

827
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,880
I had spoken to like whatever
30-40 people at the company,

828
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,040
read every single book ever
published on the company and.

829
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:30,720
It just didn't.
I didn't.

830
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,120
Execute, right?
I reckon that's.

831
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:35,360
I reckon that stuff's.
Clever.

832
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,360
Like I do think that stuff is
clever.

833
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,360
I think you get well, you know
what, Maddie did that very well

834
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,440
with his life of mine.
Like he was transparent in life

835
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,000
of mine about where he was at,
what he was doing.

836
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,680
He was, you know, he was
telling, telling the listener

837
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,520
that he was quitting Fire Phone.
He was going to go full time on

838
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,440
it, yadda yadda.
And mine started and that's how

839
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:56,480
that was the.
Buy in you.

840
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:01,400
Know, like I think you, yeah,
you invite people to be along

841
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,240
with you on the journey.
The more kind of open and and

842
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:07,080
transparent you are.
If you, if you, if you didn't

843
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,120
talk about that, then we, you
know, yeah.

844
00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:11,600
I don't, I don't know if we
would have had money in mind in

845
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,880
some way, like it would have
been a bit more of a barrier to,

846
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:19,200
to, to reach out and yeah.
Yeah.

847
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,200
It's always such a a hit as.
One when people talk about stuff

848
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,040
that they like, like those got
like, you know, people will talk

849
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,760
about whatever a book they love
to show they love, you know, and

850
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,040
it gives that bit like.
Like a quad Duke carve out.

851
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,440
Obviously, like founders, it's
about a book or he might

852
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,880
reference other ones.
And, you know, other interviews

853
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,360
wrap up by saying like, what's
something you've loved reading

854
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,640
or what's ATV show and those
those little bits of

855
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,960
authenticity, you know?
On on.

856
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,840
Super spiked, you know the
energy sub stack people we know.

857
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,760
We interviewed the host.
He'd finish every episode with

858
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,120
something I've had his, like,
family or his life, really, his

859
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,760
last golf game or something like
that, or a concert he went to.

860
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,520
Yeah, yeah.
And I remember he Congrats his

861
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:07,880
wife on her like.
Yeah.

862
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:08,880
And scoring golf.
Yeah.

863
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,760
And I remember chatting with him
and he.

864
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,320
And he was like, nobody ever
talks to me about the podcast,

865
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:17,040
but they always talk to me about
that little, that little bit

866
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,200
that he does at the beginning or
the end of the podcast makes

867
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:20,360
you.
Yeah, yeah.

868
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,320
Relate well.
Makes Arjun relatable and that

869
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,440
guy's smart as all hell.
So you're like super smart.

870
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:25,360
Yeah.
Yeah, it's so.

871
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:30,520
Funny people love that that that
authenticity, a personality,

872
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:36,000
that's the the.
Yeah, holding on to some

873
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,360
authenticity.
Like post Maddie I think will be

874
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,640
like the the yeah.
I hope we can do well.

875
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,280
I think I.
Think like if people would have

876
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:46,960
like you.
Know, think of what Maddie

877
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,480
brought to the podcast.
It was like it was non

878
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:54,040
negotiable authenticity.
You know, that was it radiated.

879
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:55,720
He couldn't be anyone other than
himself.

880
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,200
And that was, yeah, his appeal,
absolutely.

881
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,200
Goes a long way I mean.
You look at in the.

882
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:03,600
States the people that now have
Mega.

883
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,560
Podcasts, the ones that maybe
have stepped away from Fox News

884
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:11,240
or these sorts of things.
I get, you know, ten $20 million

885
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:14,880
deals to run a podcast because
of the personality they created,

886
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:19,520
the personality that the legacy
media shaped around them like

887
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,520
Tucker Carlson or whoever.
They just go do their own thing,

888
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,240
take take all the top line for
themselves.

889
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,920
They are the businesses.
It's incredible when it's built

890
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,520
off that, that relatableness,
the.

891
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,840
World we live in now, well it it
differentiates.

892
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,080
Content like anyone can do like
research anyone can do, analysis

893
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,880
anyone can do touch EPT can
fucking do better than most

894
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:48,280
analysis.
And yet it's still not like

895
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,640
personable.
It's still like it's like at

896
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,440
least the difference between
listening to an audio book

897
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,960
written by the author versus
like a narrator.

898
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,240
There's something like about the
original voice of the view that

899
00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:02,560
makes a difference to the like,
did you emphasize that bit?

900
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:03,280
Right.
Yeah.

901
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,880
All that stuff.
Oh man, an audio.

902
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,720
Book is like, narrated by the
author, like, oh fuck, I'm

903
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:15,200
staying up till at 4:00 AM.
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

904
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,160
Absolutely.
Yeah, Yeah.

905
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,640
Think of like Joe Aston.
As well, the awesome work that

906
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,640
he did and you know, hopefully
he's on to a bit of success now

907
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:25,960
with what he's doing, but I
think there were a bunch of

908
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:30,040
learnings from from what he did
and that was like a 10 year

909
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,840
journey as well, right?
Like from 10 years, yeah.

910
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,440
Oh. 10 years of free window,
probably before before that

911
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,280
longer, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.

912
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,400
Man, I bought this peer Pont.
Book the other day.

913
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,160
It's like the best of Peer Pont
arrived.

914
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,280
I'd cover.
That's it.

915
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,240
That's I was reading something
on the weekend.

916
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,360
It's actually you talk about
like the yeah, like making a

917
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,160
list of like 5 people you'd want
to interview more than anyone

918
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,040
else, Trevor.
Sykes is on that list for.

919
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,800
Me, yeah, would.
Yeah, I would.

920
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:05,600
Yeah.
Froth, Froth over that

921
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,400
opportunity.
Go to his house, have a cup of

922
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,880
tea with him.
That'd be fantastic.

923
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,880
Yeah.
Yeah, it's going to probably be

924
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,680
a couple of hour edit I reckon.
So we should.