Liontown tweak the dials to save cash

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Righto Buddy Warders special
news announcement JD is back in

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the flesh.
Great to see you sunshine.

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Great to see you boys too.
Oh.

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Mate, we've got a bit happening
today.

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What do we got the Lyontown pre
updated mine plan to order

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things out.
It's not the updated mine plan.

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Bit more colour though.
Bit more colour of what's

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happening in the future.
JD.

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Oh there's oh God, some the
resolute story with what's going

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on in Mali.
We'll go over a bit of that.

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Oh, it's frigging horrible.
Yeah, I've gone down couple of

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interesting sort of rabbit holes
there.

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But we'll talk about everything
going on with with Resolute and

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their their boss and a couple of
employees being detained.

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And Trev, you've got one bit
closer to home as well.

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That's it, mate.
There's a bit of a kerfuffle

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going on at a, at a company.
Yeah, just it's right up my neck

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of the woods, this kind of argy
bargy.

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I call it behind the scenes argy
bargy.

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But I'm pretty, Yeah, I've got a
pretty grim outlook on the state

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of this company and I'm keen to
explore it.

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It's called Hastings.
And the commodity?

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Commodity, I mean like commodity
can't save them in this case.

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Oh yeah, before we get into 2025
is fast approaching mining

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services companies that want to
sell shit and get better and

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want us to bloody tell everyone
our goods are honey.

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Don't.
Don't leave it too late to want

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to be a partner.
Give us a buzz before 2025.

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We're shortlisting.
Don't.

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Be a stranger.
I leave, I take the favourites.

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That's it.
I would love nothing more to be

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your best friend.
Info out moneyofmine.com.

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That's all he needs tonight.
All right, Maddie.

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Line Town, As I said today, I
love it when there's something

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to do with, I don't know, Line
Town or any other Australian

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underground mining operation.
Or uranium.

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It's all uranium I feel, I feel
needed.

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It's a line town.
They've come out with I guess

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costs for the remainder of FY25,
Bit of a plan going forward

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about pretty much till the end
of 20-30 FY 2, FY 30.

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So it isn't the the updated life
of mine or updated mine plan

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that they've been talking about.
It's the I guess the first step

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towards it.
So were.

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We expecting this.
We're expecting the updated mine

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plan, but I think that's coming
out end of, yeah, I'd say

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another month or so.
Yeah, I think, I think by the

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end of the quarter they were
talking about the dated mine

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plan like which will be the real
specifics.

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Yeah.
But this is a bit of a a bit of

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an executive summary, you'd say.
He's caught me off guard, yeah.

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Yeah, I don't, I don't think
we're expecting this.

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Yeah, I think it was all just
supposed to come out with the

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the mine plan, I think, but the
whether that's sort of probably

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going to be a lot more detail
put into that.

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But everyone was still waiting
for the.

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Costs.
Yeah.

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Investors.
Investors wanted the costs,

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yeah.
Exactly.

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So the the cost, the infamous
cost so expecting operating

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costs for the remainder of this
financial year.

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Aussie 775 to 855 per dry
metric.

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Tarness that's.
FoB right?

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So it's before before shipping,
before royalties, you can leave.

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Yeah, yeah, that and I think so
all in sustaining which also, so

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they, they've said that all in
sustaining costs, they're

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actually reporting as part of
the gold standards effectively

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which you don't see with
lithium.

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So they've said all in
sustaining costs 1170 to 1290.

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So that's on on top of the
operating costs you've got I

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think royalties, lease payments,
shipping, all that sort of stuff

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and the sustaining capital and
sustaining capital as well and

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not growth capital.
So if you look at if you compare

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the operating cost to say
Pilgrim Minerals, Pilgrim

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Minerals, which larger scale
open pit already been gone for a

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while.
So they're at 606 bucks a tonne

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for the last quarter.
So that's just where and

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remember this isn't long town
fully ramped up, not stopping

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yet, but they are open pit
mining.

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So if you look at the the
current Platts spot price for SC

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six that we've seen, so that's
converted to Aussie 1160A tonne

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and they lined down did recently
do that spot price sale for a

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bit over 1200 bucks a tonne,
which was a bit above spot.

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The spot price you see on Platts
and fast markets.

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So effectively the all in
society cost they've got for the

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remainder of the financial year
is effectively a bit above the

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sale price.
Then at another, you know, 46

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mil of growth capital and and
then the corporate costs of lots

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of outlawed another 46 to go out
the door.

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So you don't really need to harp
on much anymore about the fact

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of where the pricing environment
is.

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So but there apply a bit from
the call this morning right at

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the end which this question was
asked directly about the cash

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burn coming up.
So hold on to that.

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Hold on for that one.
So remember they got two 62163

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mil of cash in the bank at the
end of the last quarter.

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They got that 661 million of
debt.

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We'll talk about that as well at
the end.

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So yeah, because that that 300
mil Ford facility, Ford facility

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isn't reputable until five years
after the commencement of the

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off tax.
So they say 2029, the US 250

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convertible from LG that's also
payable in 2029.

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They will have to capitalise
that the interest for the first

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two years can be capitalised or
can be paid in shares.

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And then I think after that
there's a they have to pay cash

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and then they're whilst
maintaining a minimum cash thing

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and they can capitalise or issue
shares.

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So the better interest will
start kicking in, possibly after

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two years from now.
And there's still, there's still

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capital to come out the door.
There was they provided CapEx

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guidance for the remaining kind
of half year to come out in the

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second half of FY25 including
sustaining and growth is 97 to

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113.
That guide in the footnotes, you

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can see there's payments in
relation to the PACE plan, which

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is still to come out as well.
It's not not included in there,

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but it's already been real.
I think it was 65,000,000 too.

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So yeah.
Yeah.

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And I think they've got, but
then they're obviously I think

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they said by the end of the
year, end of this year they'll

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be up to about 100,000 tonne of
spot being shipped.

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But then so there'll obviously
be a bit of revenue coming in

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the door next year.
So you won't you wouldn't get it

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on the spot.
So on the spot.

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That's funny, right?
So for full year F-25, if you

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add it all up, so they're
guiding the 2.3 million tonne at

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1.2% head grade.
So it's going to be 260 to 295

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thousand tonnes of SC 6.
So they haven't given colour yet

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on whether they're going to be
producing a 5.2 product 5.3 or a

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5.6 or anything.
I think that's still coming up

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in the updated mine plan.
They're probably still figuring

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out the balance between the
SPOD, yeah, the concentrate

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grade and the recovery and
everything like that.

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As you know, if to get the high
spod spod con grade, you're

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probably going to sacrifice
recovery to get you might be

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able to push the push more
tonnes through the plant, get a

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lower spod con grade, but
effectively get more lithium

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units.
So I also think they're still

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doing a lot of balancing to
figure out bloody and we'll go

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into God, there's a fuck, Jesus
Christ, it's a bloody bugger

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being a metallurgist.
It's frigging hard work, even on

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paper.
Imagine saying the real thing.

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So now you can see a big
reduction in development metres

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for the next six years.
So they said they're going to

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reduce about by about 38,000
metres.

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So that's about 6300 metres per
year.

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And it, because if you look at
the DFS had it had it had about

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15,000 metres per year of total
lateral development, they're

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pretty much wiped off about well
by that number.

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It's 42% of lateral development
or above 40% of what they're

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going to mine.
So they're effectively shit can

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in that NW flanks area until
post FY31 or if there's a

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significant pricing environment
change.

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So look at say seven and a half
1000 bucks a metre, that's

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saving possibly 50 bucks $50
million per annum in mine

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development just by doing that.
So I guess where the

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developments being cut you, you
can say that Northwest Flats, I

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think I said flanks before
Northwest flats.

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So I think that's where that's
where that how they put the six

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portals in.
You had twin decline plus return

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air for Mount Man and another
set for the northwest flat.

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So they're effectively I would
assume only using three of them

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and the others are sitting there
ready to go should they choose

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to go develop that area.
I think that had already sort of

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been put on hold.
Not sure, but now and you can

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see up the I'll show you bring
up the picture of the the

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schematic.
They're up on the sort of four

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of the top levels.
You can see they're going to

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start leaving rib pillars in
four of the in those levels

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instead of mining all the
lithium and pace filling they're

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just gonna do.
You know what you do without a

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place plate?
Mine the state, leave a, you

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know, the big 4-5 metre pillar
and then start the next start.

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So it's the the thing with that
and this is where where they

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talk about sterilising and
everything you sort of do if you

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are doing that, you're they call
it sterilising the ore.

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If you can't get it later on,
you could just go fill the whole

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thing up with pace fill and then
develop back into it later on in

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the life.
But when you've got that much

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ore and that big of an ore body,
you're not really it's friggin

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1015 year later problem.
It's not like it's not doesn't

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affect it now.
It's not like you're losing or

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out of this year.
So it's.

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You just see it as a strategic
way to minimise cost in the.

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Next.
Oh yeah and it's like the only

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the not pace filling is it does
2 main things.

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It's like besides leaving those
pillars there, it increases your

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production rate and lowers the
cost.

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It's a it's as simple as that
because you you don't have to

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shock Crete pace walls.
So you don't even I wouldn't

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unless there's shock Crete and
all development stuff.

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Like you don't need a shock
Crete rig spraying bloody cement

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to block it all in.
You don't have to bring a jumbo

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back in to develop back through
the pace to get the pace feel.

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You don't have to put the ray
tick in that area like it and

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it's quick as any.
You pretty much bog the stop

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out, come back bloody, leave
your pillar and start drilling

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the next one.
It's just so much quicker.

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But you can't.
It can't do it.

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Forever.
It's sort of shortens the life.

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Oh, yeah.
But when you're looking at how

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much frigging lithium they got,
it's bloody.

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As you said, it's like in terms
of you're shorten the life, but

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it might be 15 years instead of
16 or 17 years.

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So it's like, it's not, it's a,
it's a lighter, lighter problem.

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So it has no effect on right now
other than increasing the rates

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and lowering the cost.
So it's a when you got when you

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got an old body that big, you'd
be mad not to in this pricing

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environment.
But it looks like once I do get

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down to the high grade areas and
in the coming years, because

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that that schematical board UPS
about a 5-6 year plan, that's

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00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,560
when they'll start pace filling.
So it just looks like they're

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delaying that and we'll get more
colour on it when the mine plan

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comes out about which years are
targeting which area.

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00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,960
That was just a bit of a a bit
of an overview.

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And the other thing about if
they go into this and I'll bring

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up some high level Excel
drawings that I've done, which

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is Jesus Christ, talk about the
mining Picasso right here.

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How you did this in excel?
Ohh.

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00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:17,880
I just rectangles and shit.
Bloody beautiful, isn't it?

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So if you if you are pace
filling and this is like when

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you got a big bulk ore body,
when they say the first picture

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I'll bring up is when you
transverse mine it So you you

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come in from, you know, the
transverse perpendicular to the

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00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,080
ore body and then you take out
you'll take out every second

224
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:36,400
stop.
You'll pace fill it.

225
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,840
Once that one's pace filled,
you'll come in between and take

226
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,200
out the other one.
But when you're leaving red

227
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,880
pillars like they're going to
you, you can just effectively

228
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,320
mine it like a a bit of a
goldmine, come in the guts, go

229
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:53,720
left and right and then retreat
back to the centre.

230
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,160
So if you look at, if you
compare those two pitches, look

231
00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,800
at how much less development
goes in.

232
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,880
So those rectangles are the
development drives.

233
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,800
You can see how much less
development you have to do.

234
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,440
You can you can still pay, you
can still go longitudinally and

235
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,280
pace fill and it just means you
probably have to wait a bit

236
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,240
longer because you haven't got
as many mining fronts.

237
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,680
So there's I, I would anticipate
there is a lot less development

238
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,320
going into mine those with a red
pillar strategy.

239
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,440
Now that's another area they'll
do a lot less, lot less jumbo

240
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,120
development and you get to the
oil quicker.

241
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,760
So you can whether you get
productivity improvements from

242
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,400
pace fill by having multiple
mining fronts going

243
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,160
transversely, the fact that you
got less development means you

244
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,200
start stopping quicker anyway in
those areas because you just get

245
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:40,080
there quicker.
Yeah.

246
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:44,040
So it's it's a bit of a, it's
win win just yeah.

247
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:49,960
So I suppose if you look at the
development metres, but it's

248
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,680
like 6 1/2 thousand metres a
year because I think it's about

249
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:57,480
so rough numbers, 10 split sets
per metre or something for a big

250
00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,440
drive and I'll forget it.
I've been fucking put one in for

251
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,080
ages. 6 1/2 maybe that's like
for for 6 1/2 thousand metres

252
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,200
that's like 65,000 Sandvik split
sets and plates and maybe, I

253
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,320
don't know, 6 1/2 thousand
sheets of Sandvik mesh that is

254
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,840
now on the market ready to be
put to a new home in an

255
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,560
underground mall.
Derek's herds herds phone and be

256
00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:19,800
like a book build today in a
broker shop.

257
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,360
Everyone would be ringing up
trying to get access to all this

258
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,960
but I don't know why because he
could have gave it to him

259
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,560
anyway.
Like, because it's not like

260
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:29,480
they're frigging like got a
finite amount, they'll just

261
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,080
start making more so.
They've got factories all across

262
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,560
Australia and distribution.
Warehouses everywhere.

263
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:35,920
Yeah, they'll just give it to
you anyway.

264
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,640
Go see the show, Derek.
Heard it's like a a day

265
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,640
delivery.
Here in Australia, it'll find.

266
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:43,080
Somebody can just swoop in on
this one.

267
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,920
Someone's crisis, somebody
else's opportunity.

268
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,400
Hey, I'll.
Guarantee that it's already

269
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,920
found a home already.
Good on them now. 3,000,000

270
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,600
tonne per annum was the number
we were thinking of before for

271
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,440
the run rate, not the number
anymore.

272
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:56,960
No, it's.
Not much different.

273
00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,120
It's 2.8 tonne so they're
scheduled to hit that by the end

274
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:06,320
of FY20 7 and so that'll say in
producing 530,000 tonnes SA

275
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:11,000
equivalent, SA six equivalent.
So which if you because there's

276
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,040
been that many bloody movements
in this.

277
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,320
If you actually go back to the
the 2021 DFS, it's not that much

278
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,880
different.
They're actually running at two

279
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,920
and a half million tonne up
until the end of 2028.

280
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,920
But then come, you know, 2023
with all the mania and all the

281
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,160
interest and thinking right
where ramping this up and

282
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,800
everything you can see from a
Prezzo here though went from 2

283
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,600
1/2 to 3,000,000 tonne and and
everything so.

284
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,040
Yeah, the key career is they've
got those commitments to meet

285
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:38,880
now, right?
Yeah.

286
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:43,600
But they said on the call that
this plan, yeah, meets all the

287
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:44,960
commitments.
It's built around those

288
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,760
commitments, right?
There are, there are assumptions

289
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,760
as well there and that's the,
the recovery will improve over

290
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,160
time, yeah.
So, yeah, and, and I think it's

291
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,760
part of that LG facility, like
one of the conditions is in the

292
00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,320
six months up until the end of
27, they have to be mining above

293
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,560
2,000,000 tonne per annum.
So they're locked into a minimum

294
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:08,120
of 2,000,000 tonne to not breach
that covenant.

295
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,520
That's one of the covenants on
it.

296
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,960
I think it's some probably
should have write that down

297
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:13,360
since it was.
Yeah, I read that.

298
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,600
I thought, I thought I read it
in such a way that they have to

299
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,880
at least reach a minimum of
2,000,000 tonnes per annum

300
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,800
mining rate.
Yeah, in any, in any like

301
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,640
annualised monthly mining.
Mining rates.

302
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,600
Yeah, in any month.
Yeah, it was, yeah.

303
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,920
Look, it was for the six months
leading up to this to a date.

304
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,720
I think it's like before that
date they have to be out of

305
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,560
2,000,000 tonne per hour, right,
which they're guiding to 2.3

306
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,240
already.
So for this financial year so

307
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,160
that that won't be a problem.
Mining's not an issue.

308
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,040
Yeah.
So stopping or they've said to

309
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:53,680
commence Q4 FY25 so bloody you
know April next year they're so

310
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,360
I don't know if that's been
probably delayed and it's it's

311
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,720
understandable if it has because
if they are targeting high grade

312
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,600
areas and being more selective,
it means you're not just

313
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,360
developing into the closest
bidder or as your decline goes

314
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,520
past it's going to take you
longer to get to those selective

315
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,840
areas.
So that's evidently going to

316
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,800
push out that possibly that
first stopping if they're

317
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,200
targeting high grade first.
So it just takes them longer to

318
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,520
get there so.
Everything's a trade off.

319
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:21,640
Right.
Oh, there's so many.

320
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,440
Speaking of trade offs, JD
lithium processing, holy snap

321
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,320
and duck shit.
There's some trade offs in here.

322
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,960
So recovery is always the
biggest ticket item for a

323
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:33,960
lithium plant that everyone
looks at.

324
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,440
So now remember this plant has
only been gone for three to four

325
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,240
months.
So and it's a whole of all

326
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,960
flotation.
So no DMS you would say the more

327
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,120
complex processing solution you
would have for lithium.

328
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,000
So the fact that they're they're
at 52% for October after three

329
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,320
or four months considering what
Pilbara and that are in the 60s

330
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,120
and what down pretty well I
reckon for that time.

331
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,440
Think of what Pilbara took 18 to
24 months or so to get their

332
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,200
flight circuit fine tune.
So I'd say, I think it's like

333
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,359
probably in line or exceeded
expectations in the short

334
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,319
period.
So it says.

335
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:14,119
Like can they reach the DFS
target recovery?

336
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,440
Hope life of mine was 78. 78 I
don't think that's an even

337
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:19,480
applicable anymore.
You think you think just

338
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:20,640
expectations should be lower
now?

339
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:21,920
I think.
I think the market's

340
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,280
expectations of like, you know,
78 was the number that just

341
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,680
everyone chucked in a DFS then.
But I think with so much more

342
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,240
lithium processing physicals out
since that point, I think

343
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,200
everyone's adjusted what the
practical recovery is.

344
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,480
Like, fuck, I'm sure they could.
I'm sure they would if they

345
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,160
could, yeah, keep everything
balanced.

346
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,440
But I just don't think the
market even expects 78% now

347
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:49,840
unless it's a like a freaking
yeah, just a really optimal

348
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,360
mineral mineralogy to achieve
that.

349
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,680
I think.
I think if they get in the 70s,

350
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,360
they'd be like, fucking go you.
Yeah.

351
00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:59,760
Like if the market will be like
that is a positive.

352
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,320
Pressure.
So this 52% Lithia recovery, we

353
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:07,160
were confused because it was 52%
Lithia recovery and then the

354
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,480
flotation recovery peaked at
81%.

355
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,880
Yeah, yeah.
So and I think because everyone

356
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,600
thought well how's the Lithia
recovery 52%, but the monthly

357
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,800
average flight recovery was 68%
when it is all flotation.

358
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,360
Yeah, so well sit back and enjoy
boys.

359
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:31,200
All my own ideas obviously there
before it goes into the flight

360
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,520
circuit.
There are lithium losses in the

361
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,080
circuit before it goes into
flotation, even though flotation

362
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,920
is the main mechanism to recover
the lithium.

363
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,000
So there you lose some in the in
the magnetic separation circuit.

364
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,120
So that removes all the iron
bearing minerals cause iron is.

365
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:48,800
Bad for covering.
Iron is.

366
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,680
What would you compare iron to?
Iron is like getting a rock in

367
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,840
your shoe.
Like your shoes fucked.

368
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,680
Like no point.
No point wearing it like it's.

369
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,760
That's what iron is not allowed
in batteries effectively.

370
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,000
Yeah, unless it's a lithium iron
sulphate 1, but in the in the

371
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,520
lithium component.
So in, so when they're removing

372
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,560
some of the iron bearing
minerals, there's some lithium

373
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,120
contained in that.
But in in Lontown's case and

374
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:20,720
probably most of them, it's the
day slimming of the slurry that

375
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,840
occurs before it goes into the
flotation.

376
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,040
That's where the biggest loss of
lithium is, so.

377
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,280
Is a D slime do that.
Will D slime.

378
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,200
So when they say slime, they're
talking about the really, really

379
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,560
fine particles.
So after it goes through the

380
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,800
grinding circuit, like your ball
mill and that anything, I think

381
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,680
it's about 20 to 30 Micron or
below is considered your slimes

382
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,480
like you really, really fine
shit.

383
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,760
So if you if you leave that shit
in there, it doesn't it, it

384
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,920
floats about as good as fat
bastard, you know, pull without

385
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,040
an inflatable lounge below him.
Like it just doesn't float.

386
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,800
Even he probably popped that
thing so effectively.

387
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:02,520
So you have to do slime it.
You have to get rid of that fine

388
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:03,960
shit before you Chuck it in the
float.

389
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,320
So obviously those really,
really fine particles will have

390
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,760
some lithium in it.
So you lose, you're losing

391
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,920
lithium for for your from your
overall.

392
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,200
All plant recovery before it
gets into the flotation circuit.

393
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,720
But then that's where this this
whole thing is like the balance

394
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,520
that they will be still trying
to optimise.

395
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,600
Because let's say you grind the
living piss out of it, you're

396
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,880
going to get better flotation
recovery because it's it's

397
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,000
grinded finer.
So you're going to it's going to

398
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,160
float better.
Like generally in a, they say in

399
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,840
a gold plant, like if you grind
it more, it's going to the

400
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:43,040
cyanides going to attach to the
bloody gold easier put it into

401
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,080
solution easier be the same with
lithium.

402
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,600
So but by grinding the piss out
of it to increase your flotation

403
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,880
recovery, you're increasing the
amount of slime because you're

404
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,240
getting you're grounded grinded
it more so you got more fine

405
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,560
material.
So you got more lithium being

406
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,160
removed in the de sliming
process which lowers your

407
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,000
overall plant recovery.
As well as energy being a big

408
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:06,880
cost, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.

409
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,720
Yeah, So and then, but then if
you don't grind it enough, so

410
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,040
you've got much less slimes, it
might be too coarse to get an

411
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,560
optimal flotation recovery
because it's coarser.

412
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,680
So it's, it's finding it's
about.

413
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,920
So they they said they've hit
80%.

414
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:26,600
What'd they say?
81%.

415
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,040
Peaked at 81% flotation
recovery.

416
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:34,760
So I think the numbers of found
if, if you're getting around 80%

417
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,840
flotation recovery, you'd take
off about 15 to 18% for your

418
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,280
losses in the magnetic
separation and the day slimming.

419
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,840
So 80% float would give you
about 60 to 65% Lithia recovery,

420
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:51,880
overall plant recovery, whatever
recovery.

421
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:57,640
So their, I think their goal is
so to get up to that sort of 90%

422
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,880
flotation recovery with the
minimal amount of slime and

423
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,280
hopefully that would see him
start getting towards that 70%

424
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,240
overall plant recovery.
So that that is the difference.

425
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,920
So because as you said the
21/20/21 DFS was aiming for 78%,

426
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,240
which I don't think but if they
can get it, they can get it.

427
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,280
But that might be also a
function of the spot, the

428
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,440
concentrate grade they sell.
So if they they go for opt for

429
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:30,600
more of a 5.2% S spot con grade,
that might give them the

430
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,240
opportunity to get up to 78%.
But the trade off is the salable

431
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,160
price of that spot con.
As well as the fact that in

432
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,160
these first six years, call it
they're high grading it in a

433
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,240
sense they might be having
versus the DFS higher average

434
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,840
head grade in the first six
years might have some role on

435
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,640
recovery.
Well, but I think it was weird

436
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,880
they they did say because I
think when they say I think open

437
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,760
pit mining thesis in feed
thesis, I think it's FY20 6.

438
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,000
But they said they're aiming for
one point 2% this year and

439
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:08,200
gradually ramping up to 1.5% by
FY30 so that it's not AI.

440
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,920
Don't think they're going
straight to like 1 1/2 percent.

441
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,280
OK, It's like I think it's like
1.21 point 3 and 26 one point.

442
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,600
I think it's gradually sort of
lifting up.

443
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:23,680
So now, now that another comment
as well about and you can see

444
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,800
this is probably around the cost
optimization side when I

445
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,560
mentioned about trialling new
reagents in the plan.

446
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,280
So and you'd think like, yeah,
your first first perception

447
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,480
might be, oh, why aren't the
reagents working?

448
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,040
Or is it something wrong with
the plan?

449
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,800
Is it not fucking working like
but of you wouldn't believe and

450
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,600
I didn't believe this one.
I heard it either.

451
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:49,520
Reagents are actually around 25%
of the processing cost, which is

452
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,000
fucking phenomenal.
Yeah, not sure sure if that

453
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,240
includes power or what's put in
the it's reagents are very, very

454
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,520
costly.
It's amazing.

455
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,000
Yeah, so and I think previously
when lithium was just the

456
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,720
greatest thing in the world and
bloody everyone's bidding at you

457
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,360
and just giving you money for
nothing, you're like, what would

458
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:09,680
you do?
You if there's because reagents

459
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,360
are very, you can get real good
reagents, real shit ones for

460
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:18,600
different prices that so you can
pay shit loads for a reagent and

461
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,320
guarantee the best recovery,
which is what I assume Lontown

462
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,000
would have done when they did
all the testing, but obviously

463
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,680
cost you more.
So now it's like, well, the

464
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,640
pricing environments changed so
they can either trial different

465
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,600
amounts of reagents.
So I'd allow the cost by using

466
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,240
less or trial different types of
reagents that might be a bit

467
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,040
cheaper to see, right.
Can we still maintain the

468
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,480
recoveries that we want while
saving a bit of cash on the

469
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,560
actual reagents in the plant?
So that'll be something there.

470
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,200
So fine tune that with every
all, every other 65 things of

471
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,840
fine tune and to do so if you
can get in the all just to put

472
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,760
one number on a quarterly report
to keep us bastards happy.

473
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,520
And it's to keep the mining
operations.

474
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,440
It's.
The theme is is is cutting cost

475
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,840
to try and last the cycle.
So yeah, save every buck you

476
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,720
can.
Oh, and I think and you know, I

477
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,440
mentioned to be out like and
under understand why when you're

478
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,800
in construction and ramp up
locking because there was talks

479
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,920
about like, you know, the people
on site and like reducing the J

480
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,840
and I and obviously the the
amount of people you're paying.

481
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,360
But you think, right, and this
is what every ship mining

482
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:31,960
company should do.
It's like, yeah, you might

483
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,040
overman during construction,
like because you got a, you need

484
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,560
obviously a shit load of boots
on ground to try and guarantee

485
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,480
delivery of the project in the
most optimal, safest fashion.

486
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,360
But when you get to the point
where you know your CapEx spend

487
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:46,560
and your construction's dying
off and you're getting into more

488
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,600
of a steady state, you don't
need the same amount of people.

489
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,240
Like, yeah, a lot of those
people are there for the perp.

490
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,640
A good chunk of the people, not
all of them are there for the

491
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,280
purpose to get that project
going.

492
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,720
And you don't need all those
people once you get in to

493
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,400
approach a bit of a steady
state.

494
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,400
So hence why I've probably seen,
I think I saw the articles.

495
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,080
I don't know how many people
they've made redundant, but it's

496
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,440
probably something more to come
to because that's, you know,

497
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,440
why.
Just cost a lot, buddy.

498
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:14,880
Unless you're in Zimbabwe,
buddy.

499
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:16,760
Yeah, what's happening in
Zimbabwe?

500
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,840
I said like you know Bakita
which is a lithium there, which

501
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,160
is ramping up.
So their costs are lowering 20%

502
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,400
quarter on quarter for the last
few quarters and wages there are

503
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,600
like literally $300.00 USD per
month.

504
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:34,120
Jesus crossed.
Yeah, I'm not working there.

505
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,040
Yeah, no.
We did see a Zimbabwe and

506
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,680
lithium mine shut down though,
yeah.

507
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,000
It was, yeah.
Arcadia.

508
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not, not all mines in locations

509
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,640
are the same, but we'll use
general terms to talk about it.

510
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,800
But yeah.
US Aussies want to get paid too

511
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:49,400
much.
It was.

512
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,960
It was 300 bucks for 300 bucks
to borrow an all drive when I

513
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,120
was on the Leafs.
Bloody.

514
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,240
There you go.
Back in the die.

515
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,720
I'll, I'll finish it, snip it.
I'll finish off.

516
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,840
I'll play this question from the
conference call and we'll follow

517
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,160
with a bit of a discussion this
from Baron Joey's Glenn Lawcock

518
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,400
to Big Tony O about the
potential cash burn coming up,

519
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,760
Take it away.
Oh, Tony, good morning.

520
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,480
We haven't had a lot of time to
digest all this, but I just want

521
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,240
to try and understand the cash
flow.

522
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,800
Your guidance for the second
half, if I look at it probably

523
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,120
suggest you're going to burn
about $50 million.

524
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,880
Then if I think about this
quarter, we're in giving you

525
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,000
65,000,000 of CapEx as well.
You've disclosed in the

526
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,240
footnotes and it probably going
to be an even higher, you know

527
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,240
it'll burn more than you will
from an operating cash flow

528
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:43,600
perspective.
So it looks like you're going to

529
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,680
burn through 150 to $200 million
between now and the end of the

530
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,160
financial year and you've got
263,000,000 on the balance

531
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,440
sheet.
I mean, how comfortable are you

532
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,840
with the balance sheet given
that outlook if, if, if current

533
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:03,000
prices hold?
Well, a couple of things, Lynn.

534
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:07,040
I think you're right.
We've given guidance that, let's

535
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:12,480
take the 263 that we outlined at
the end of the September

536
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,040
quarter, We've got about
65,000,000 of further tail into

537
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,360
the CapEx, which we've disclosed
today.

538
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,320
The operating costs, I think you
can use what we've given you as

539
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:31,320
guidance for FY25 second half as
a good driver of what they're

540
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,840
likely to be for the next few
months.

541
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:41,000
And and then on the other flip
side, we've got revenue coming

542
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,280
in.
So we've for the 1st, for these

543
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:50,080
first six months, we're going to
have about 100,000 tonnes of

544
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,520
spot.
You mean sales over 100,000

545
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,760
tonnes of spot, you mean sales.
So I think from the modelling

546
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,240
we've done, we've done modelling
at various price scenarios,

547
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,200
we're good.
OK.

548
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,480
But I mean basically spot
pricing against your all in

549
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,480
sustaining costs to mean spot
prices are at the very bottom

550
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,960
end of your all in sustaining
costs.

551
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,080
But that excludes your growth
capital you're spending in the

552
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,720
second half.
So you will burn cash in the

553
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,960
second half, but when do you
expect to be cash flow positive

554
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,320
then on an all in basis?
Well.

555
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,160
That depends, that depends on
your on your price outlook.

556
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:38,640
As I said, we've we've done a
series of scenarios both

557
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:45,120
consensus would Mac our own
price forecast.

558
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,640
We've extended today's spot
price for a period of time.

559
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,120
So you know, we've looked at
this.

560
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,720
That's such a telling response
there.

561
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:56,880
It's.
Like that last bit.

562
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,400
Totally.
It's like when do you expect to

563
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,960
be cash flow positive?
That depends on your price out.

564
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,320
Glynn was trying to get in the
point at current lithium prices,

565
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,000
yeah, but at that point.
Yeah.

566
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,000
Well, you did say they've, I
suppose they've extended that on

567
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,160
the model, the current current
price, the current price staying

568
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:13,560
this way.
For a period.

569
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,080
For a period, we don't know how
long that that period it is, but

570
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:24,720
I think it just comes back to
that point like yes, they're

571
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,440
they're distressed at the moment
because of the price, but you do

572
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,560
not want to be raising money
more distressed.

573
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,040
Yes.
And it's, it's there will come a

574
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,560
point where and whether it's
going to whether this

575
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,160
announcement today is the admin
information that they're

576
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,520
releasing.
Claims.

577
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,960
In the lead up to A to a rise
which would make a lot of sense

578
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,160
in the coming days.
And as we as we said would not

579
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,400
be, I'd be, I'm not a
shareholder, but I'd be, I'd

580
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,600
find it a lot more comfortable
that that 660 million debt isn't

581
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,360
as large with this pricing
environment.

582
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,640
What do you think?
Yeah, yeah, I.

583
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,840
Agree.
Like you, there's a real chance

584
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,440
that lithium prices are lower
for longer.

585
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,280
And yeah, you don't want to, you
don't want to play the waiting

586
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,760
game.
And then sort of what, June next

587
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,600
year, you've just, you've burnt
through all your cash.

588
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,120
You're you're super low on cash
and the market's not dumb.

589
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,040
It'll price in the fact that you
can't raise.

590
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,720
And guess what, your share price
will be $0.20, not, not where it

591
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,360
is today.
And if you want to raise 200

592
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,720
million bucks at $0.20, it's a
lot more dilution than it is

593
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,920
doing it.
Well, it's tomorrow as an site

594
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,800
to I think it's up 2% today.
Yeah.

595
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,160
There hasn't been a negative
reaction to this.

596
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,280
And like whether, you know,
they've effectively, well,

597
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,480
they're taking a bit of taking a
bit of lithium out of the

598
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,880
market, not much, but they've
obviously reducing their Co and

599
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,480
that's probably something that
everyone was looking for.

600
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,880
It's like, are you going to like
use a, you're marketed as a very

601
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,400
like come across as a very
sophisticated company, but you

602
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:02,960
know, the pricing environments
change.

603
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:03,720
Yeah.
You're going to sort of

604
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,400
unsophisticated yourself on the
cost and expenditure front,

605
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:08,560
which it looks like they're
doing.

606
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,000
So I don't know.
I'll be watching out for the in

607
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,360
the coming week to see if there
is a bit of a book bill going

608
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,120
on.
God, you'd be mad not to.

609
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,240
Yeah, well, you wouldn't be mad
not to, but what would I?

610
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:20,840
Know you'd be taking a big risk
not to.

611
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,160
It's the the way to summarise
it.

612
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,480
Yeah, but what do we know?
Who cares?

613
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,040
As I said, if anyone doesn't
like it start your own podcast.

614
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,400
Until we get competition we will
not be judged compared.

615
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,120
No one to compare us to.
That's good, Maddie.

616
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:37,120
That was really interesting.
Oh.

617
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,880
Bloody hell, I love it.
Go underground.

618
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,000
Bit of a different one now,
resolute.

619
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,120
We're going to West Africa with
some pretty concerning stuff.

620
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,840
So for those that haven't caught
what has happened, Resolute

621
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,320
Mining W African gold miner with
a couple operations, their CEO

622
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,880
and a couple other employees
have been detained in Mali by

623
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,240
Mali's military government.
So first and foremost, thoughts

624
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,800
go out to families of those
detained and everyone at the

625
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,520
company must be pretty
distressing at the moment, so we

626
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,640
hope they all come home safely.
Yeah, a bit shocking, yeah.

627
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,040
The the company came out with an
update.

628
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,600
So this happened on the back of
events on Friday.

629
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,280
The company came out with an
update this morning to the

630
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,680
market there, of course, London
listed as well as ASX listed.

631
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,160
The stock has subsequently come
off some 30 odd percent.

632
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:32,920
I think started the day off 25%.
So this is to do with their

633
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,480
Sayama goldmine in Mali.
There are other mine that they

634
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,920
operate is isn't in in Mali, but
this is a chunky gold mine.

635
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:47,040
210,000 oz was the FY24 target
and expansion work was underway.

636
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,040
So it was to get bigger and
resolute has been a real turn

637
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:56,320
around story that had a a very
sort of tough 2020 to 2022

638
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:57,840
period.
And then they've been on the

639
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,280
March onwards and outwards since
then.

640
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,480
Stocks gone from the, the kind
of low teens in on the ACEX to

641
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,040
over $0.80 now and it's dropped
back to a bit below 50.

642
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,960
As you know, the the balance
sheet got cleaned up, the

643
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,080
operational outlook improved and
they started to actually really

644
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,719
make money.
That did involve IN2022A big a

645
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,280
big yeah cap raise and
restructuring of the of the

646
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,520
balance sheet.
But yeah, it's what, 13 cents?

647
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,719
I did that up, yes.
Restructure, yes.

648
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,280
So it's bloody. 6-7 X since
then?

649
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:31,800
Yeah, until today.
Exactly.

650
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,600
A good, good two years ago.
So there were actually some

651
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:38,719
murmurs at the quarterly, which
was a couple weeks ago now from

652
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,000
the company that they'd been put
under a bit more pressure from

653
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,239
the countries that now it's both
Senegal and Mali.

654
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,440
Obviously this wasn't expected,
but word on the street is that

655
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,560
the government of Mali have come
out and they want 250 million

656
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,880
Aussie dollars.
As sort of was reported in the

657
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,280
Australian newspaper, Terry
Houlihan, the CEO and two other

658
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:02,200
execs were arrested at their
hotel in Bamako, the capital.

659
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,600
So they had gone and they were
discussing tax related matters

660
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,760
with the anti corruption and
financial crime unit in the

661
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,440
country.
They were there talking about a

662
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,960
whole bunch of different issues.
There was this sort of in

663
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,480
quotation marks tax audit that
was going to take place at the

664
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,600
country wanted to do over the
the company.

665
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,160
And there were some other sort
of claims that were made against

666
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,240
the company, which Resolute
maintained were completely

667
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:33,040
unsubstantiated.
They said they'd played by the

668
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,400
book, paid their taxes, paid
their royalties, paid dividends,

669
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,760
given the joint venture
structure that the mine is held

670
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,920
in with the company and the
government.

671
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,720
So they're saying none of this
is founded in kind of reality.

672
00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:51,160
Is the context here that they,
but they, the government

673
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,400
introduced a new kind of regime
for, for, for new mines, which

674
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,280
you can see kind of yeah, that's
it applied to some developers.

675
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,960
But but is is there, is there an
extension of that that is

676
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,480
desired from the government to
an existing mine that might not?

677
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,440
So that that's exactly what I
was going to sort of build to.

678
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,720
And yet you're dead right.
There is a new mining code that

679
00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:12,200
was developed in 2023 in, in
Mali.

680
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,520
Now if the the ruling was that a
lot of the older mines,

681
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,280
everything in operation was
going to be grandfathered and

682
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,120
this would apply to all the new
exploration projects and and so

683
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,880
on.
Did did the military junta gain

684
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,160
control before that new mining
code or the mining code was

685
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:31,360
before?
Yeah.

686
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,920
So the new mining code was the
result of the military taking

687
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,000
over the country.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

688
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,160
So it's worth talking a bit more
about Mali.

689
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,360
We'll we'll flash up a map now
and kind of give a a fairly

690
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,960
rough overview of where you can
and can't really operate.

691
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,640
To start with.
Mali is a big country and it is

692
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,800
sort of region by region.
But if you want to simplify it,

693
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,440
the North East of the country is
dangerous.

694
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,480
The southwest of the country is
where you'd choose to operate if

695
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,400
you were operating in Mali.
That's not to say that

696
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,360
everything in the cell.
Well, it's, it's not that the

697
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,560
mine has been taken off them or
overthrown by a terrorist

698
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,080
organisation.
It's that it's a tax related

699
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,520
type of challenge.
Now Russia's presence has built

700
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,480
and I'll talk some more about
this as well.

701
00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:22,120
So to, to go through the other
operations, and I think this is

702
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:24,200
pretty relevant to get a feel
for the country.

703
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:29,440
You've got Barrick who have the
Lulo Guncoto operation that's a

704
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,000
sort of complex, they're right
on the border with Senegal,

705
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,240
produces 550,000 oz per annum.
So it's a big, big mine.

706
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:39,480
And that makes Barrick the
biggest taxpayer in the country.

707
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,000
Gold is the biggest export of,
you know, any commodity or

708
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,800
anything that the country of
Mali produces.

709
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,520
So the money that they earn
through royalties and, and taxes

710
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:54,160
from gold is very important.
So they paid US $380 million in

711
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,360
taxes, royalties and dividends
to the government, which

712
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:02,240
actually led to a bit of
controversy as a few sort of NGO

713
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:06,680
type reports that were put out
accusing Barrick of funding a a

714
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,440
military junta.
You know, it's like, I mean.

715
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,600
I wouldn't buy it if I didn't
have to.

716
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,840
Yeah.
And they they're kind of in in

717
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,080
the country before this
happened.

718
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,880
So it's a you're in a rock and a
very hard place.

719
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,120
But yeah, this government
doesn't exactly have the most

720
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,640
upstanding human rights track
record.

721
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,800
Yeah.
Barrick to have been at odds

722
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,680
very recently with Mali.
So they saw four of their

723
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,360
employees detained in late
September.

724
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,880
Obviously, this all relates to
to money, but very similar,

725
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,120
although it wasn't the the CEO
of the company, this was

726
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,200
eventually quote unquote
resolved.

727
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,960
They ultimately said they would
pay US $81 million to the

728
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,760
country, although Mali just
recently came out and said

729
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,240
Barrick didn't honour this
agreement.

730
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:52,640
And again, it ties in with the
new mining code, which I'll

731
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,320
touch on in in a moment.
Interesting.

732
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,000
What about the other players in
the region?

733
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,160
Yeah.
So you've got B2 gold obviously

734
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:04,440
known known entity in in Africa
with Fecola Big mine 590,000 oz

735
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,640
last year at US 1200, all in
sustaining cost.

736
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,160
Allied Gold Sadiola 200,000 oz
similar sort of all in

737
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,640
sustaining cost of Fecola
Hummingbird there a London

738
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:20,040
listed group they play in West
Africa got the Yanfolila

739
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,800
operation in Mali specifically.
There's another one I have to

740
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,640
mention not owned by a company
but supposedly owned by the the

741
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,880
government.
Now there was a a wacky wacky

742
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,560
history with this one.
So the mine is called Code Coda

743
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,800
Run, and there was a Bloomberg
article I read from 2017 talking

744
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,080
about how Airbus, the plane
maker, had taken a stake in

745
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,840
this.
It had sort of been looped

746
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,520
through Switzerland and the
British Virgin Islands, I think

747
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,000
in a few other tax havens.
It's really interesting.

748
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:54,680
It's got this sort of connector,
if you like, in Malia, Malian

749
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,800
businessman who was involved,
who then floated 2525% interest

750
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,280
on the German Stock Exchange of
this.

751
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,800
There was a big ceremony opening
in 2012 of this mine.

752
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,880
Even though the mine wasn't even
operation and they just got the

753
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,640
gold from people who'd been
panning gold nearby and this was

754
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,720
the official opening supposedly.
I chucked that one in the

755
00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:19,040
director special tomorrow.
It's a it's a good read.

756
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,200
Yeah, if they're, well, if
Airbus invested in it, they

757
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,040
must.
Their production output must be

758
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,240
what, a three 80,000 oz per
year?

759
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,720
Very, very good.
Supposedly one of the biggest

760
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:32,880
operations there, though
obviously numbers are hard to

761
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,240
come by.
But the article did say Airbus's

762
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,800
investment was written down to 0
or close to it.

763
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,400
You've got Gulamina and Marilla,
don't think we need to flesh

764
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,720
over the history of those ones
again.

765
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:46,560
And interestingly, Endeavour,
they've got a development

766
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,040
project there and they were
meant to run with Scotiabank, a

767
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,400
site tour quite soon.
So we'll see what happens on

768
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,080
that front.
Yeah, bloody hell.

769
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:59,440
So that, and when you're talking
about that map, I think was

770
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,160
notoriously like the the
northern part, the southern,

771
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,240
more southern parts of Mali
would consider on a like a

772
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:09,720
government and a terrorist side,
probably safer areas.

773
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:13,680
But like Siami, like the bot,
like the far South, which is, is

774
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,200
that sort of surprised people
out there that this has sort of

775
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,360
come in under pressure.
But all it's more the government

776
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,440
operates as the government for
the whole country.

777
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:23,800
Yeah.
It's more the government

778
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,400
operates as the kind of
government, so.

779
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,960
So for most of those operations
I mentioned the, the classic

780
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,720
structure was with the old
mining code, 80% owned by the

781
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:35,480
company, 20% owned by Mali, the
country.

782
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,800
But Mali and Russia have been
coming closer and closer.

783
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,200
And that you, you kind of have
to discuss this because it's

784
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,440
it's highly sort of relevant.
There was a deal last year that

785
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,560
was in between Russia to build a
gold refinery in Bamako, the

786
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,680
capital.
The interim president who's the

787
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,160
leader of the military junta,
Asimi Gota, he actually went to

788
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,960
Saint Petersburg.
There's a photo of him shaking

789
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,720
hands with Vladimir Putin.
The crux of the relationship

790
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:03,640
between Russia and many W
African countries, this isn't

791
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:09,960
just Mali involved, is that they
sort of say we will support your

792
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,480
regime militarily if you need,
and in return you'll give U.S.

793
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,040
military rights.
And this is applicable in the

794
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:22,840
Central African Republic, in
Nigeria, in Mali, in Akina, in a

795
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,040
number of countries.
And, you know, that's that's

796
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,840
loosely how it kind of operates.
And this formally happened

797
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,600
through the Wagner Group, who I
think most people will be

798
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,440
somewhat familiar with.
But then, of course, there was

799
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,840
the the kind of uprising of the
Wagner Group trying to sort of

800
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,400
supposedly March on Putin in
Russia itself.

801
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,520
And then mysteriously the leader
of the Wagner Group, his plane

802
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,680
gets, you know, just falls out
of the sky.

803
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,600
He's gone.
So the Russian government has

804
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,520
essentially taken over the work
that the Wagner Group was doing

805
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:59,160
that these mercenaries were
doing throughout West Africa and

806
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,080
taken up that, you know,
relationship with the military

807
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,040
juntas there and how they kind
of get compensated.

808
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,320
An example we saw earlier this
year is that the government will

809
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,840
kind of in quotation marks, give
a mine, in this case an

810
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:17,200
artisanal mine into Hakka was
given to what was the Wagner

811
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,640
Group, which is now kind of the
Russian defence department type

812
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,680
of thing.
So they get this mine, which,

813
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,800
you know, in that case was a
mine, an artisanal mine that had

814
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,760
been fought over by civilians by
terrorist groups, by government

815
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,440
forces for for a long time.
That was the biggest artisanal

816
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,200
mine in the country.
So that's kind of how they want

817
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,920
to get compensated.
And there's articles out there

818
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,360
throwing up that barracks mine
could be next.

819
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,520
I think that would be a quite,
quite a stretch to go from an

820
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,280
artisanal mine to take a mine
off of barrack.

821
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,920
I don't think that's quite going
to happen just yet, but that

822
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,720
that is a gist of the
relationship between Russia and

823
00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:57,360
these these governments.
What used to be the role that

824
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,640
the French did, they've now fled
or been booted out of the

825
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,160
country.
Yeah, exactly.

826
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,640
So the new mining code, super
important 2023.

827
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,040
The the summary of it is that
Mali's on a very bad trend,

828
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,680
unstable fiscally, which doesn't
attract any sort of investment

829
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,320
with the hided threat of
terrorism.

830
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,400
But the the gist of it is that
the government interest has

831
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:26,680
jacked up from 20% to 30% plus a
5% interest that has to be

832
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,600
transferred to local Malian
investors.

833
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,120
There were some tax exemptions
in the first few years after the

834
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:33,440
miners built that have been
wiped.

835
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,280
And the big one was that like
you asked before Trav, a lot of

836
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,440
these companies thought that
they would get grandfathered.

837
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,440
That was supposedly the ruling
given the actions we've seen in

838
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,080
recent times, you know, that is
still the ruling on paper, but

839
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,560
you start getting the feeling
that, hey, that might not be

840
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,680
what's actually happening in in
reality.

841
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,120
And they might be having to, you
know, make if you catch up

842
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,920
payments to to make the new
reality that we're now in.

843
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,440
So what before you get into I
guess what, how this like you

844
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,800
know, the chart and how much
it's going down.

845
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,920
But what do they want?
Are they are they literally

846
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,800
going to have to pay?
Because I saw there was what the

847
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,120
Australian article said, might
have to cough up 250 million or

848
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,560
something to the government and
to get they're, they're not

849
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,120
going to, they're being detained
for money.

850
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:21,840
Yeah, effectively they want
money.

851
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,120
This is a, you know, this isn't
a tax audit.

852
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,640
This is, this is a, a shakedown
like that.

853
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,480
That's simply what it is.
It's a, it's a horrible sort of

854
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,080
strategy.
And they did it a month or so

855
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,120
ago.
They just detain people and

856
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,560
they, they want to get paid and
it, it scares off a lot of sort

857
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,600
of investors.
Like you said, 250 million bucks

858
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,920
is what they want.
We'd sort of heard on the on the

859
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,480
Grapevine that that's at the,
the higher end and maybe they

860
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,040
just sort of settle somewhere in
between.

861
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,560
Maybe it's a cash payment, maybe
it's gold over a period of time,

862
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,760
maybe it's a slight change.
Exactly.

863
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,120
It could take many different
forms and how that's kind of

864
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,840
paid, but I think the from a
market perspective, a lot of the

865
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,080
people will be asking is it, is
it a kind of buy the dip

866
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,200
opportunity like we've spoken
with W African in West African

867
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,960
resources that is in the past
and my sort of our default as

868
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,520
we've spoken about it in the
past has been by the dip.

869
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,000
That's the sort of default
stance when something like this

870
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,360
happens.
Obviously, every situation has

871
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:26,280
its unique little quirks to it.
I think it could take a while to

872
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,520
recover from something like
this.

873
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,440
I do expect there to be an
orderly outcome here.

874
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,440
And let's hope that that happens
and everyone is, you know, gets

875
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,800
home safe.
But you got to remember everyone

876
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,400
is incentivized for the mind to
be operating and just be

877
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,040
humming.
Then the government is earning

878
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,320
royalties, earning taxes, the
company is making money.

879
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,600
So that is the incentive for all
parties involved.

880
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,560
And maybe there is a slight
readjustment of of the goal

881
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,360
posts, maybe there is a payment.
But what what are you exactly

882
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,520
going to do if you're if you're
resolute, you got.

883
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,680
More kahunas than me mate.
Because of what?

884
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,440
There's effectively been What
about four?

885
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:04,760
Not an investment
recommendation.

886
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,760
There's been.
About what 400 odd million wiped

887
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,600
off the market cap today I
think, yeah, they're, they're

888
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,360
one, they're 1 billion when we
checked and that was down 30%.

889
00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:15,960
So it must have been 1.4 ish
before this.

890
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,560
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, I'm, I'm not

891
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,520
exactly saying that the stock
price is going to jump back up,

892
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,000
but I, I'm not thinking that the
government is going to yank the

893
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,040
mine off them and, and run away.
And it be a sort of, you know, a

894
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,960
0 on this one for, for them.
Like it's, you know, a tough

895
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,840
situation.
You got to have a super, super

896
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,320
high risk tolerance to, to
stomach any, any of this sort of

897
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,720
stuff.
But even when the mine, you

898
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:44,400
know, say things go back to
normal, the, the, the economics

899
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,560
of the mine could be very
different if they're playing

900
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,520
with different rules, you know,
and maybe a, a wiping off just

901
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,800
sort of is appropriate given
that it's a less profitable

902
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:53,520
operation.
I.

903
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,320
Think the other part too in the
in the in the way you have to

904
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,480
value this company now is you
have to apply bigger a bigger

905
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,000
discount on the like the
geographical kind of component

906
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,680
of this now about. 20%.
Like whatever, yeah, whatever

907
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,240
you want to, you know?
MPV 20.

908
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,160
We're talking about a country
that isn't is comfortable to to

909
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,440
literally just like take Aceo of
this mining company out of his

910
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,960
hotel room and to detain him and
God knows what kind of stand.

911
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,920
It's like there's deplorable
kind of things and.

912
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,320
But there's no, there's no
status over there, is there?

913
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,840
Doesn't matter if you're ACEO
like you get traded.

914
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,600
Like this, it's phenomenal and
it's and like investors want,

915
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,320
they want, they want just like
stability.

916
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,080
Now, if you, if you could say
give me $100 million once, what

917
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:36,840
stops you from, you know,
putting the knife to someone

918
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,520
said and saying give me $100
million again and then give me

919
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,920
an extra percentage of the mine.
The risk, the risking, the

920
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,400
risking of this, this operation
is now, you know, a fair bit

921
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,680
higher than it was, you know, a
month ago, unfortunately.

922
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,240
So it's not as simple as, as you
know, deduct the payment from

923
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:54,160
the market cap and happy days A.
100% these things happen in in

924
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,160
cycles as well.
I think Tanzania is an

925
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,960
interesting example.
They had the big tax kerfuffle

926
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,040
in the late twenty 10s.
Can't go there for five plus

927
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,040
years uninvestable and now
slowly.

928
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,720
Illustration and all that sort
of stuff, yeah.

929
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,480
And slowly it, it, it comes back
into the, the mind of investors.

930
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,360
And I think, hey, they've
learned from that.

931
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,800
It might not be what it be what
it is, but that downward trend

932
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,720
can, can take a long time to
play at.

933
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:21,520
And, you know, I think that the
Russian influence grows here,

934
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,240
which is also not an attractive
proposition.

935
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:29,040
If anyone kind of involved from
a Western perspective and you

936
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,640
know, retail investors, they're
just going to be put off.

937
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,880
Like why take a punt on this
when?

938
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,120
There's all this other thing,
there's a cynical like what I

939
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,400
think about it too is like, what
are they asking for more money

940
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:39,280
for?
What are they going to use the

941
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,240
money to do?
They're going to buy more, more

942
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:43,840
guns with the money.
Does that create more more

943
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,240
stability or instability in the
country too like?

944
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,480
And the the quantum's
interesting.

945
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,360
If they've asked, they've got
Barrack to pay them, which is

946
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:52,920
Barrack is obviously a huge
company.

947
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,680
So if they shut this mine off,
it's not the end of Barrack.

948
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,680
But they've asked for what US
81,000,000.

949
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,840
So it's that 120 bucks Aussie
they're asking resolute if this

950
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:08,440
figure is correct for double
that 250 because you know, if

951
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,680
this mine shuts down for
resolute, that ruins resolute.

952
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,800
So they've resolute have got so
much more pressure on them to

953
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,440
sort this out than a barrack
would and whether that's being

954
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,800
used against them as a like
they're a multi asset company,

955
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,280
but this is a big part of it.
It's yeah.

956
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,280
So we'll we'll wait and see.
Yeah, it's a, it's a tough one.

957
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,760
And you know, so many inserts
already would have been put off

958
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,600
by by Molly as a jurisdiction.
And I am curious about the

959
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,160
investors that that have been OK
with, with Molly, whether this

960
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,120
you know scratches it off for a
few more of them.

961
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,400
It becomes even more
uninvestable.

962
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:51,160
Then it's becomes a very, very
tough investment proposition if

963
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,200
you're, if you're the likes of
Resolute or any of these other

964
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:56,800
miners.
That's why that's why so many of

965
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,440
the the miners out there go on
that diversified model of having

966
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:05,080
operations in multiple countries
seems to be the the smarter way

967
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,080
to go about things.
But that takes time as well.

968
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,920
Yeah, yeah, right there.
As we said, thoughts of a

969
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,800
peaceful resolution for this,
though.

970
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,320
Definitely.
Right, Trav.

971
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,680
Now another masterpiece is
coming up from Trav.

972
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,960
Trav's masterpiece is always,
they always come third because

973
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,960
it's captivating.
And you, you don't, you can't

974
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:27,800
follow it.
That's how I've determined it.

975
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,800
You can only follow it with
sponsors.

976
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:35,360
Now this is regarding, as you
said, for Hastings, the some

977
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,320
potential issues around the
seniority of the debt.

978
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:45,000
Now I'm not sure if debt
seniority insurance from CRE

979
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,920
would be a possibility because
this is a funky 1.

980
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,520
I don't know if this is even out
of their realm of expertise.

981
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,720
As good as CRE insurance and
they are the best, they will

982
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,560
like insure you against a litany
of of issues.

983
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,600
I'll I'll say it here even
though I can't say Hastings.

984
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:06,280
Really mining, construction
experts, I don't know, maybe

985
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,520
financial insurance might be up.
So when you're ringing up, you

986
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,400
are ringing them up about their
expertise in Carl Metalliferous

987
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,600
mining, even African insurance,
especially experts in Africa,

988
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,200
see if they do financial debt
insurance wouldn't put it past

989
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,480
them.
So Mr Ricard Didier, what is

990
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,320
actually this is coming out a
couple of weeks ago, but there's

991
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,440
a bit going on in a couple of
stakeholders involved in this.

992
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,840
There are, I think it's, I think
there's a bit behind the scenes

993
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,520
and my personal read of the
situation is it's pretty dire

994
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,720
for shareholders.
But and you know, before I give

995
00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:42,440
you the rundown on the drama,
just remind, remind you guys in

996
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,840
the money miners that look
Hastings is, is in a very bad

997
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,280
financing predicament.
They are like whatever 30% of

998
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,760
the way through construction of
the Yanja banner project and but

999
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,240
they need another $300 million
to finish the job.

1000
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,400
The trouble they're cornered
with their ability, ability to

1001
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,640
actually fund the rest of that
CapEx there.

1002
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,240
Is it still going?
Is it still being constructed?

1003
00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:05,240
They've they've tape it.
I got no money, right.

1004
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,200
So everything's being tapered
off like, for all intents and

1005
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:09,840
purposes, still building it.
But you know, yeah.

1006
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,800
And the trouble is like, yeah,
like, like, they have to pay

1007
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,080
Wyloo 100 and $50 million next
year.

1008
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,560
There's a, you know, an
obligation to repay the money

1009
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,320
that has been lent to them by
Wyalu.

1010
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,120
And the market cap is a mere $50
million.

1011
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,520
So good luck relying on the
equity markets to help you raise

1012
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,600
$150 million.
You need to repay Wyalu plus the

1013
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:30,720
$300 million to finish the
project.

1014
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:32,280
Yeah.
OK.

1015
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:37,200
So in terms of OK, so that was
already existed, What's the new

1016
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,640
drama?
Well, you know when, you know

1017
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,600
when you'd like come into the
office and you're looking at,

1018
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,920
you're looking at the, the AFR
and it's like story posted 5:00

1019
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,720
AM on a Monday.
You kind of, I always kind of

1020
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:50,400
know something must have been
happening over the weekend when

1021
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:51,960
that happened.
So when I read Pete Kerr's

1022
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:57,760
article this morning, he, he, he
takes aim at, at a $5,000,000

1023
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,840
secured debt facility that has,
has been, has made its way into

1024
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,960
Hastings capital structure very
recently from an entity that is

1025
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:09,520
34.4% owned by Hastings
Executive Chairman Charles Liu

1026
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,040
himself.
The argue bargie here is, is

1027
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:17,000
about the, that little bit of
new debt being an explicit

1028
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,760
breach potentially of the
existing debt facility in place

1029
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,880
with Wyalu.
And if it's a breach, well then

1030
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,160
Wyalu could potentially issue
Hastings with a notice of

1031
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,320
default.
And if they've been issued with

1032
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,920
a notice of default, Wyalu can
actually demand early repayment

1033
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:36,160
of their money.
They don't have to wait till

1034
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,800
next year, they could ask for it
ASAP.

1035
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:42,280
And that's where things get
pretty ugly, because Hastings

1036
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:46,080
clearly does not have the money
to repay them or capability to

1037
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,280
get the money to repay them.
OK.

1038
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,680
So is it is it a breach of the
Wylo turns or is it not?

1039
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,360
Hastings today explicitly put
out their own announcement

1040
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,920
saying that these project notes,
which is the $5 billion debt

1041
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:02,600
facility, yeah, for the purposes
of funding project costs

1042
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,120
associated with the stage
development of Yanja Banner and

1043
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,760
they reckon they are not a
contravention of the Wilu notes.

1044
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,520
As you can see now when I first
saw the debt actually pop up a

1045
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:16,760
couple weeks ago, I, I assume
Wilu must have consented to it

1046
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,440
in all honesty, because I
remember going into the weeds in

1047
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,640
the detail of the terms of, of
the, the connect with Wilu like

1048
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:24,280
six months ago when we did an
episode.

1049
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:28,200
And my memory was that Wilu had
effectively had the right to

1050
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,160
veto any new debt that wasn't
kind of project finance debt.

1051
00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:35,440
So I dug back into the, the
notice of meeting from September

1052
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,920
2022 and I scrolled back through
the terms of that facility when

1053
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,920
it kind of got put forward for
shareholders to, to vote on it.

1054
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,000
And there's a negative pledge
clause there.

1055
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,400
And I'll just read out the
section that I've highlighted

1056
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:47,880
and you can make your own mind
up.

1057
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,480
Maddie, JD, it says Hastings
will be subject to a negative

1058
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:55,800
pledge on the granting of
security interests other than in

1059
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,880
the case of Hastings only in
connection with project finance

1060
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:03,520
obligations or working capital
financing agreements and without

1061
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,080
prior.
So you basically need prior

1062
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:09,560
consent of Wyalu and or subject
customary exceptions to be

1063
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,160
agreed during the documentation
phase.

1064
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,600
So when I, when I like read that
negative pledge to me it reads

1065
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:20,040
like while you need to OK any
secured debt, unless it was in

1066
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,640
connection with project finance
obligations or working capital

1067
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,680
financing arrangements.
And those two clear exceptions

1068
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,000
are capitalised terms, which
means, you know, they actually

1069
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,920
relate to a definition somewhere
in that document.

1070
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,120
But we only have an abridged
version of the agreement.

1071
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,160
So we can't find out what the
definitions are.

1072
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:38,760
But I'm I'm very sceptical that
a secured debt facility of

1073
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,920
$5,000,000 to a related party of
the exec chairman could be be

1074
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,920
considered project finance.
Like how is $5,000,000 deficit?

1075
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,280
Project for 100.
Yeah, it doesn't pays salaries

1076
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:51,720
for what?
However long?

1077
00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:52,920
Like it's not.
You're actually not building a

1078
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,440
project with 5,000,000 bucks.
So what?

1079
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,320
What did you find out about that
$5,000,000 facility?

1080
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,280
It's so this is secured debt to
Equator Capital, which is the

1081
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:07,680
vehicle that, yeah, obviously
that is, you know, 34% owned by

1082
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,480
Charles Liu, but it's been used
by Charles Liu in the past for

1083
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,640
investments into into Hastings
for various purposes.

1084
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:18,040
As part of the debt, Equator
would also get one option for

1085
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:22,680
every $3 of loan notes.
And get this if shareholders

1086
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:25,160
don't approve the grant of the
options at the upcoming AGM,

1087
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:29,040
then the board may choose to pay
the value to Ecuador in cash

1088
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:33,640
instead of getting the options.
So that's sign they get one 1.6

1089
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,440
million bucks worth of options,
is that right?

1090
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,960
They they do a Black Shores
calculation of the value of the

1091
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,960
options based on the exercise
price and term and all that sort

1092
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:42,800
of stuff.
But yeah, but you know how much

1093
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,760
that option is really worth?
If shareholders don't vote for

1094
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,720
it, then it's like, heads I win,
tails I win, too, like.

1095
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:50,960
Yeah.
And it's a strategy you'll see

1096
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,040
elsewhere in the same notice of
meeting Resolution 3.

1097
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,240
This is for performance rights
and shares to Mr Charles Liu.

1098
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,160
If shareholders don't approve
it, directors may instead give

1099
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:03,640
Charles Blu a cash bonus.
I don't have to tell you what I

1100
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,400
think of resolutions like that.
I'm sure you can read my mind

1101
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,080
here.
And and.

1102
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,480
For pretty good at it.
After months.

1103
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,640
Or so in operation with you.
For an exec chairman who has

1104
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:19,280
for, you know, over a decade put
equity into the company, you've

1105
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,320
got to ask the question why all
of a sudden are you keen to

1106
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:24,520
ensure it's secured debt?
Right.

1107
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,120
And if you can't tell, I don't
think it passes the pub test.

1108
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:33,960
If WAILU have issued a notice of
default, courts will determine

1109
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,240
the validity of that.
And you know, keep in mind that

1110
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,200
it says in the AFR article that
they actually asked Hastings if

1111
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,840
they'd been issued with this
notice of default and they

1112
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:44,920
didn't respond to that.
The announcement today, they

1113
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:46,760
didn't include whether or not
they'd been issued with the

1114
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,400
notice of default.
So like, go figure.

1115
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,120
Why would you not respond to
that question?

1116
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:52,640
Have they or have they not been
issued with the notice of

1117
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:56,600
default?
And if if they have right then

1118
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:58,680
and they don't, they just
disagree with the fact that

1119
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:00,680
they've breached it or not, then
courts are going to determine

1120
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:02,400
whether or not it is valid or
not.

1121
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,320
And if Hastings are in default
or have been, you know, then

1122
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:08,960
what the actual why are they
still trading?

1123
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:11,600
Like, just makes no sense.
So yeah, you don't have to be a

1124
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,560
genius to know how this ends for
Hastings.

1125
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,920
So, OK, so to be clear, we don't
know if while we have issued a

1126
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:20,520
default notice yet, we don't
know.

1127
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:22,240
We don't know.
We know that Hastings have

1128
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:23,640
chosen not to respond to that
question.

1129
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:24,600
To media, Yeah.
Yep.

1130
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:26,920
Right.
So let's OK, let's say that if

1131
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,120
Wyalu do issue a notice of
default.

1132
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,840
Or if they have.
Yeah, if they have and it gets

1133
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,000
taken to court.
Proven to be valid, yeah.

1134
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,240
Which would, I assume be a
lengthy process.

1135
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:39,680
I don't think so.
I think that's the record.

1136
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,240
Nah, I don't think so.
Yeah.

1137
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:44,440
OK, I'll give it a year.
No way less.

1138
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,960
No way less, yeah.
You reckon it'll be a quick one?

1139
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:48,760
Yeah, this should be like sorted
in a month.

1140
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:50,920
All right.
So OK, so if that's the case and

1141
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,880
it rules in favour of Wilu that
it is a breach, what happens

1142
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,960
then?
Does Wilu now have security over

1143
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,240
the assets?
Wilu can demand repayment

1144
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:02,840
immediately.
Hastings doesn't have it.

1145
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,080
The money Hastings insolve.
Yeah.

1146
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,200
And then Wilu then what Wilu
have I guess all the on site

1147
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,480
infrastructure in the neo shares
as.

1148
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,400
Well, it goes through the, you
know, the insolvency process,

1149
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:17,400
which.
Value all.

1150
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:22,760
Of it, the value so Wilu should
get is 150 million title.

1151
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,760
The value of the neo shares is
like 75 million.

1152
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,600
The rest is whatever like you
know, how much of the project do

1153
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:30,840
they get?
You know, there's a whole bunch

1154
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,720
of stuff that other creditors
that don't have to, you know,

1155
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:36,760
will be part of the process as
well.

1156
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,360
But regardless, like
shareholders aren't,

1157
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:43,000
shareholders aren't going to be
left with.

1158
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,400
Yeah, I won't say nothing, but
yeah.

1159
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,160
Sense on the dollar.
I wouldn't be happy as a

1160
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,560
shareholder.
So so but so definitely even

1161
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,680
even it looks like even why Lou
as the senior lender will be out

1162
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,800
of pocket.
I think it depends how much you

1163
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,120
value the projects are today.
Yeah.

1164
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,000
And like how much that project
can they get?

1165
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,640
You know, they, they for all,
you know, in all reality, they

1166
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,200
might end up with the, the
shares and, and the entire

1167
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,120
project, right.
And in that case, don't know, it

1168
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:14,760
all depends on like what the
project's worth.

1169
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,880
Can they can they are they just
going to treat the project as a

1170
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,600
bit of a call option and wait it
out for for a better, better

1171
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,720
environment?
Don't know, don't know.

1172
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,600
Right, as we said, depends on
your price outlook for rare

1173
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,600
earths.
Yeah, yeah.

1174
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,440
Tends to be the way for a lot of
the companies we talk about.

1175
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:34,560
Yeah, at least the.
The project's pretty advanced,

1176
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:36,080
Manny.
It's 30% constructed.

1177
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,600
Don't worry about the 300 bucks
you got to Chuck into an extra.

1178
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:42,840
Yeah, yeah, right.
Far out.

1179
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,200
Oh, keep an eye on that.
Bloody hell.

1180
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:48,680
Yeah.
Got the partners to think oh.

1181
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:50,240
Don't.
Don't we?

1182
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:53,600
Hey, doesn't matter if you have
any negative stuff in the

1183
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:55,760
episode.
Yeah, it's always positive at

1184
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,840
the end with the partners.
JD That's it.

1185
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,480
Our great friends at Mineral
Mining Services, Grounded, Cross

1186
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:05,240
Boundary Energy, Sambic, Grant
Sports, CRE Insurance, K Drill,

1187
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,120
Dash, SAT and Booteru Money
Miners.

1188
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:13,720
Booteru.
Information contained in this

1189
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,480
episode of Money of Mine is of
general nature only and does not

1190
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:19,120
take into account the
objectives, financial situation

1191
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:21,200
or needs of any particular
person.

1192
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,520
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

1193
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,600
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

1194
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:31,280
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.