Is Australia Really a Top Mining Jurisdiction?

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Righto Money Waters, Welcome
back to another week brought to

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you by the trusted advisers and
consistent advisers in drill

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hole Survey, Instrumentation
Access Mining technology.

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Give them a call, they will
consistently pick up the phone

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with a guru on the other end.
On to some more inconsistent

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news.
The Australian government.

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Oh Jesus Christ, we're getting
political these days.

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Holy snapping duck shit.
It's a bit of a bit of a sad day

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for the mining industry, I'd
say.

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Yeah, she's buddy.
Talk about some potential

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precedents being set for the
future.

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Maybe.
Fucking lot happening.

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Lot happening.
We'll, we'll get it.

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We're talking about the Bloody
Mcfillimy's Regis project in New

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South Wales, pretty much getting
the foot put on it by the

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environment environmental
minister after they pretty much

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did everything asked for him.
So asked of them.

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So crazy.
Yeah.

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So we're going to get right into
that.

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This will be the.
This is the headline for the

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day.
Bloody.

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Yeah.
There's a lot of moving parts

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here, JD.
You've even got a bit of silver

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chat.
Yeah.

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Good.
Silver, I mean, it's a it's a

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pretty similar story at at
silver mines also in NSW also a

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project that's not going to be
going ahead anytime soon.

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So I think we can wrap the, the
two stories in and around each

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other and then just have a good
discussion about the, the

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ramifications.
I mean, you, you say perhaps a

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precedent for the industry.
Let's let's kind of hope not,

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right?
Yeah, God, we're literally

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talking about everything in NSW.
I've even got a sneaky one at

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the back about antimony which is
yeah another NSW 1 mate.

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Fucking as a proud New South
Welshman and we've won the State

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of Origin but only God they
could do better on the friggin

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mining front.
Far out driving me nuts.

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I think that Antimony one has a
strong bit of China about it.

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Yeah, interesting to chat about
it.

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But it's in NSW, Yeah, anyway,
anyway.

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Yeah, Yeah.
No, no, no, yeah.

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It's where I cut my teeth,
Jardo.

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Right.
Let's, let's get into it.

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So Regis's, Mcfilmy's project,
the, I think we've talked about

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it a bit.
It was, you know, going to be

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their, their growth story you'd
say, but you know, the DDFS sort

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of come back with, you know,
pretty hefty CapEx grade was

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sort of, you know, it's like A1
gramme joby.

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It's going to be a big
operation.

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They're going through a big
process with getting all the

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approvals for a lot of years.
Then there's Section 10.

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Come along.
That was the I guess 3.

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Four years ago, big.
Overhang and effectively now the

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environmental minister Tanya
Plibersek has pretty much put a

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foot on it and said parts of the
project which are is essentially

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where the TSF has to go.
Tiling storage facility is can't

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go there because of cultural
significance of the land to a

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set of traditional owners.
But there's a lot to go through.

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It's a lot.
Of nuance.

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Oh right, so for those who don't
know this Mcfillummy's project,

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this has they Regis actually
bought this back in 2012 from

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Newmont and Alkane. 150 million
bucks all in shares at 4 bucks

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20 a share.
So the share price is now $1.60

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today.
PFS was done in 2017, DFS come

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out this year 2024.
So look at 7 million tonne per

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annum operation for about I
think average 187,000 oz a year.

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You know, CapEx was sorted up in
the billions.

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It was one of those ones even at
a, you know, high gold prices, a

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bit of a lower IRR project.
But for this project to if it

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was ever gonna work it, you
know, it has to all be in the

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one spot and it doesn't it's not
like a you can just truck a bit

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up the road sort of thing.
And but we're in a rising gold

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price environment.
So but this was this is just

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really put a bit of a temporary,
temporary Nile in the coffin,

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unfortunately.
Yeah, but look, shit load to go

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through.
So 'cause they went into Regis,

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went into the trading halt on
Friday morning bit after lunch

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Sydney time, Yeah.
And announcement out today

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detailing that as we said, the
Federal Minister for Environment

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and Water, Tanya Plibersek, she
was, she was appointed in June

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2022.
So she's bloody made a

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declaration of protection over
part of the approved Mcfillimmys

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Gold project, which applies
primarily to freehold land

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ultimately owned by Regis but
under section 10 of the

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Aboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander Heritage Protection

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Act.
So pretty much where that TFTSF

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scan can't put it there because
of these, I guess the start of

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these, this river, the river's
name.

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And this game is like a huge
surprise to everyone, including

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Regis, who who had a call today
to sort of brief everybody about

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this.
I mean, this project had already

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been assessed and approved under
both state and Commonwealth

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legislation.
So this, this announcement sort

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of over the weekend from
Minister Plibersex essentially

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overridden conclusions that were
already made at those state and

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federal levels, including her
own office.

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Yeah.
The first part that comes

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through earlier last year was
the IPCI think Independent

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Planning Commission.
So that went through that whole

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process that was approved.
Then you had the EPGEPBC Yep,

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part of it, which was actually
which was approved by you guess

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the the head of NSW and ICT
environment and water, which is

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actually a, you know, part of
blipper second Chris Bowen's

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body division.
So they've they've actually

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approved it, but then she's come
in now and actually just shit

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canned the whole thing
effectively, but claiming that

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this will not stop the mine.
Just saying they have to find a

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another location for the TSF.
But if it was that friggin

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simple, you'd do it like Jim by
went through in the call about

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you can't just move it like
that.

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That area for the TSF being
assessed like geotechnically,

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water floor and fauna safety and
everything is the most

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appropriate place for that TSF.
And to go through the whole

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process again of finding another
spot for approvals is like

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essentially another five to 10
years.

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So it just ain't that simple.
It might be to someone, to the

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government, but practically it
just doesn't work like that.

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Yeah, we can.
We can keep that IPC in mind.

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They'll they'll come into play
with the the silver mines story

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in a little bit as well.
And to wrap a bit more kind of

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narrative around a lot of people
asking, you know, why can't you

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just sort of fence off this area
if it if it is like that on on

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the call.
And just for people wondering

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why or what the answer to that
might be, it is essentially the

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whole tailings area.
There is no way around this.

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Interesting looking at the like,
you can't help but look at the

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political side of thing of this,
because when one person just

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puts a foot down, you got to
look at the history of it.

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So this Tanya Plibersek,
Minister Plibersek seems like

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there's been a bit of done a bit
of both and Create had a bit of

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backlash last year because she
actually in terms of blocking

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mines because she blocked Clive
Palm as that central QLD coal

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project in 2023, citing
potential pollution of the Great

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Barrier Reef, which is 10 KS
away.

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Also rejected another two coal
mines in central QLD last year.

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But she also approved 4 coal
mines last year.

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But as a result of that, she and
the two companies that she

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approved and for Whitehaven and
Mack were then taken to the

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Federal Court by this Central
Environmental Council of Central

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QLD.
Regarding the expansion of the

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the Narrabri underground and the
Mount Pleasant mine, both in

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NSW, They'll sort, they're
talking about Great Barrier Reef

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protection, but those mines are
in NSW, so I can't figure that

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one out.
And then she also approved 151

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coal seam gas wells in
Queensland this year for the

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Cenex Atlas project, which is
Gina Rinehart backed.

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So whatever's going on here
after like, you know, approving

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that thing, going to court and
then not approving ones, it's

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like what is actually happening,
especially considering leading

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into a federal election either
at the end of this year or the

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start of next year.
So not consistent as we said.

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No.
And I mean even like looking at

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the the the media release from
the the IPC, this is from a from

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a state level back in March of
last year.

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It says the Commission finds
that on balance, the project

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this is Macphillum is is in the
public interest and the

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application is consistent with
the objectives of the

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Environmental Planning and
Assessment Act.

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And that the Commission noted
found that the positive impacts

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resulting from the project,
including employment, training,

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investment and additional
economic activity will outweigh

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the negative impacts.
So, and then you've had the the,

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the further approval here from
the Department of Climate

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Change, Energy, Environment and
Water as well also proved May of

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last year.
That's the sub one under bloody

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the the ministers for that are
Plibersec and Chris Bowen.

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Yeah, yeah.
And like, and you look at it

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there, it says like decision
approved controlling provision,

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listed threatened species and
communities and signed off by

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the branch head for
environmental assessments in NSW

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and ICT.
And I think I think there was a

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mention in the Regis
announcement here, what they're

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citing now wasn't even talked
about or mentioned as part of

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the whole approval process prior
to this.

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This has just come out now.
Yeah, from what I remember.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, you spot on.
Maddie.

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I can read a little snippet from
the announcement that kind of

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relates to that one, the
referral made by Regis under the

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EPBC Act, including an
assessment on Aboriginal

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cultural heritage, which at the
time the Minister's delegate did

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not note as a point of concern
for the project.

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Like back in the like the
Section 10 back in October 2020,

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like as we said, this was they
deemed like that any potential

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harm to Aboriginal heritage can
be acceptably managed through

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conditions of consent.
It was assessed and approved in

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May 2023 by the by the delegate
delegate.

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And then you had the Orange
local Aboriginal Land Council

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were engaged in the process and
they're the actual and we'll get

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to this bit.
They're the actual statutory.

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They hold the legal authority to
speak for this.

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Land that part, that part of the
land.

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And then so the the traditional
owners that they're talking

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about today are actually
different.

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They're not part of that orange
one.

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I think these ones are closer to
to Bathurst.

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So it's like a different set of
traditional owners that have

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like, you know, laid claim to
this being of cultural

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significance.
Like to my understanding,

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there's no like actual like
physical artefacts or, or

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anything that it is just like a
cultural significance.

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So Regis are essentially
claiming that, you know, the,

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the decision by the minister is
essentially unprecedented 'cause

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it's like contradicts both the
EPBC and the IPC approval

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process that was done by our own
department, the EPBC.

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And it's just vetoed them the
whole thing.

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And it's, it's worth tying into
that, Maddie, that they were

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pretty eager on the call to
stress that this is freehold

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land, essentially land owned by
Regis, which is, you know, used

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for, for grazing cattle and
whatnot, as it has been for a

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couple 100 years now.
It's not Crown land.

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That was just something that
really stuck out from the, you

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know, from the call today.
Yeah.

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So essentially cattle have been
eating there and shitting in

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that river for bloody hundreds
of years.

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And this, this what they've put
in place today.

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And the the way it seems like
the way and Jim mentioned it on

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the call, the way they interpret
it that even now what because of

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this, you can't even have cattle
on the land, which has been been

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there for ages, hundreds of
years.

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You can't do you can't even
essentially got to fence it off

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and protect it.
So it was all, all on the basis

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of the, the mining side.
So and that's setting a

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precedent for I know.
And look, we talked about like

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last year when that was
potentially we're going down

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this road in WA about the whole,
what was it like the traditional

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owner approvals for everything,
which could have applied for

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00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,000
bloody farmers and, and
everything to get all these

228
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,520
surveys done.
And like, this is essentially

229
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:31,640
pretty similar.
Yeah.

230
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,560
What what's happening here?
So because like, this land is

231
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:40,840
owned by owned by Regis.
So yeah, buddy.

232
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,480
Oh, so it's, we're fucking
learning a lot at the moment.

233
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:45,840
JC Learning.
A lot talking.

234
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,200
About politics, politics, I
never paid an interest till I

235
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,520
did this.
And this is, interestingly, on

236
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,280
the back of just recently, the
whole Jabiluka thing.

237
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,280
As well, Yeah.
Very only a couple of weeks ago,

238
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,800
like bloody putting their foot
on that side.

239
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,720
Now that's going into Kakadu
National Park.

240
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,080
We're just making the decision
right now and there's another

241
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:10,000
questions about who is actually
being properly engaged in this

242
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:14,680
process.
And who is the right people to

243
00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:18,920
engage as part of this process?
Because I think one one comment,

244
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,800
which which is quite important
is this is not so much an

245
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,880
argument of, you know, whether a
site is sacred and should be

246
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,160
protected.
We're all for responsible

247
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,600
mining, doing things the right
way and working collectively

248
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,600
with the traditional owners.
This is more so a discussion

249
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,240
about the process.
How can you say this is OK and

250
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:46,280
approved and then it's not?
That's what I don't understand.

251
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,720
If this was identified as part
of these, these processes that

252
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,320
are set up by the government,
say, hey, look, I know we've

253
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,920
identified a few sites for ATSF,
but this is not one that you can

254
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,600
do.
Regis would have then, you know,

255
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,000
done the work to, you know,
advance other alternatives at

256
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,440
that time.
But that's already been and gone

257
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,320
now.
So why are we talking about that

258
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,400
now?
Again, I'm just, I'm also

259
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:14,400
confused if there's this,
there's a process that's been

260
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:18,560
followed and you know,
supposedly the right parties

261
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:23,120
have been engaged, consulted as
they should and then this has

262
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,080
happened.
I just don't understand.

263
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,360
MMM and and cause the the were
were Rogery people that she's

264
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,600
cited as the you know, the T OS
that she's engaged with here.

265
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,320
But it sounds like then this
orange local Aboriginal land

266
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,320
council that were the people
that Regis were engaged with.

267
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,360
I'm not not sure if this the
were Rajory people were if Regis

268
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,960
engaged with them or they didn't
know that they were gonna claim

269
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:48,920
ownership of that part of the
land.

270
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,280
Like to say like.
Yeah, they couldn't.

271
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,080
Sounds like like Regis could not
have done any more than they

272
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,800
possibly could have done in
terms of very much following the

273
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,040
regular true process.
And.

274
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,360
That's that's super well said,
Ally.

275
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,040
Yeah, I totally agree with what
you've said there.

276
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,920
And I'll, I'll put a pin on it
'cause I think we can chat about

277
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,480
it more after the, the silver
mines 'cause I think there's

278
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,960
heaps of comments to be made
about the the process.

279
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,840
I just add that readers still
don't have a heap of

280
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,360
information.
They're they're still waiting on

281
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,120
the, you know, sort of quote
unquote official ruling or

282
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,040
whatever it's called from the
government to understand what

283
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,800
exactly is gone down and what
they can do going on forward

284
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,160
from here.
Because you look at the, I guess

285
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,320
we'd say the site, the impact of
it, the social and economic

286
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,920
impact.
So they're saying 500 and 80

287
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,120
full time jobs in construction,
around 290 when in production,

288
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,440
about 200 million bucks worth of
state royalties to the state.

289
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,360
The directed indirect benefits
it can provide to local

290
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,040
indigenous communities benefits
and opportunities to local

291
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,960
businesses, local communities
like You can just see the impact

292
00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:02,600
that a decision from 1
politician can have a. 100% and

293
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,720
you even had the the head of a
MEC, Warren Pierce sort of

294
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:10,440
echoed these comments as well in
an Amex statement.

295
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,880
And it was also in the AFR
around the decision sort of

296
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,240
claiming that sort of, as we
discussed before, Indigenous

297
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,920
groups in NSW had differing
views about the significance of

298
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,520
the side question if the right
people had been listened to.

299
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,040
And as Warren said, this
decision affects the local

300
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,520
community of Blaney.
The traditional owners and the

301
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,920
mining industry described it as
a lose, lose, lose situation.

302
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,240
That's when it's 3 + 3 + 1 = 1.
-5 or.

303
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:40,840
Something it's it's three.
So yeah, anyway, this has been

304
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,680
going on for frigging years.
Like as you said, asset purchase

305
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,680
in 2012, PFS from 2017, a bits.
A bits happened since 2017.

306
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,040
I mean, Trump has been and gone,
COVID has been gone, Brexit has

307
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,000
happened.
You were still on the jumbo.

308
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,000
I was just learning the jumbo.
You were just learning the

309
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,280
jumbo.
Me and JD were young

310
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,000
whippersnappers at Argonaut
still.

311
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:06,400
I mean a lot's happened since
then compared to other sort of

312
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,280
major projects and their
approvals in Australia as well.

313
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:17,000
So guys, sort of taking all that
information in, what do you

314
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,560
think this ultimately means for
Regis going forward with

315
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,600
Mcfillemys?
The the first thing that kinda

316
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,920
springs to mind and I mean
we're, we're at 2024 now this

317
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,560
investment was made in 2012 a
$150 million.

318
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,000
Of course it was in in script
like, yeah, you guys said at the

319
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,320
beginning there.
But it doesn't scream out as a

320
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:42,080
stellar investment.
And, you know, was this project

321
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,160
really going to go ahead?
We can kind of have another

322
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,480
debate about that.
We we spoke about this when the

323
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,840
DFS came out and the numbers
didn't look too good just a

324
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,800
month or so ago.
What do you reckon, Maddie?

325
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,800
Oh, and it look, it's to the
point it's like nearly the

326
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,680
project is irrelevant in this
this story today in terms of

327
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,080
just the whole process and the
precedents it sets.

328
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:07,600
Like it's heavily wided to.
I guess to say it's a a poor

329
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:13,160
investment is sort of impacted
by the fact of how long the

330
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,000
approvals and how difficult it's
been and the time and money

331
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,840
they've had to spend on that
side of things that it sounds

332
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,520
like was fucking out of their
control.

333
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:22,600
Absolutely agreed.
Yeah.

334
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:27,040
Yeah, but, and I do agree it's
like, and we'll get into the

335
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,160
like what other options they've
got, but it just looks like this

336
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:35,080
project is for it to work, it
has to all be there.

337
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:39,040
It has to probably all go right.
It has to like there's a, there

338
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,080
is issues with it in terms of
like it's a 0 discharge.

339
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,440
So that's a lot of capital has
to go into, you know, ponds and

340
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,000
can't just like run water out of
it.

341
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,240
What they went, they went
through all that to try and

342
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,400
like, and it's a, you know, it's
a big capital investment, but

343
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,160
potentially, potentially long
life and you might make your

344
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,160
money back from it eventually.
But it's, it seemed to has to be

345
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,160
done this way to work.
So yeah, it's why they could

346
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,440
have got the weather dependent
on the bloody gold price and how

347
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,320
they fund it.
And if there's bloody hedging in

348
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,600
place, determines whether
they're going to whether it'd be

349
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,160
a very profitable operation at
the moment.

350
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:22,280
But yes, it wasn't a wasn't
screaming out as a like a a low

351
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,520
risk play?
No.

352
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,880
But that's low risk from an
operational standpoint, right?

353
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,760
Yeah, yeah.
So I guess they're two separate

354
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,360
issues in a way.
Yeah.

355
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:38,360
And even like financially, right
as as you said JD, you know, I

356
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:42,400
think a lot of people out in the
market sort of discounted

357
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:47,320
Mcfillimy's as a true growth
option for for Regis on the on

358
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,480
the basis of, you know,
financials at least anyway.

359
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:54,400
I mean consensus NAV for
Mcfillimy's was about $0.20 or

360
00:20:54,400 --> 00:21:00,000
$150 million, which is about 12%
of Regis's market cap.

361
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:07,680
And you know finally that Regis
Mcfeely contributes about 60% of

362
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:13,600
Regis's reserve.
So, but I think there could be

363
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,880
as as difficult as as A and
shocking of the news as this is,

364
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,960
you could see it as a silver
lining for Regis.

365
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:28,720
I mean, given the sort of the
financial and the operational

366
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,920
elements, you know, was it
better for Regis to go, hey,

367
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:38,160
we've done the work and we've
actually got more interesting

368
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,480
and attractive options over
here.

369
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,800
So we're going to kill this one
or have the government kill it

370
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,640
for you to give, to give you a
good sort of, you know, not

371
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:51,200
excuse, but a reason to focus
your attention elsewhere rather

372
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,480
than making that call
themselves.

373
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,400
Yeah.
And it's, it's a go, it's a gold

374
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,400
price bet.
Like, you know, if gold's bloody

375
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,640
4000 bucks an ounce by the time
this is mined and they haven't

376
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,040
got too much hedging
commitments.

377
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,040
And you know, they probably
would make good money out of it

378
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,240
just because of the because of
the scale of it.

379
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,560
But it's like, you know, a
billion dollars worth of CapEx

380
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,160
to get it there.
And and a lot of that CapEx is

381
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,720
tied up in what the water
pipeline to get the sufficient

382
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,480
amount of water there to well, I
think it was about 100 odd mil.

383
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,480
And then as I said, the ponds
because of the 0 discharge the

384
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,080
mill like that there was about 6
or 700 million just in that sort

385
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:32,280
of key infrastructure to process
it and maintain the site.

386
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,640
So that's what the question is
right.

387
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,360
Is there any other option
outside of this because this

388
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:41,920
comes back to the hole.
It sounds like it's freaking.

389
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,840
It is becoming increasingly
difficult, and in this case near

390
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:52,680
impossible, to build and permit
processing plant.

391
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,480
Even if you do.
It by the book in Australia.

392
00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,200
So it's it's like the only one
the only one near there is

393
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,120
Cadia.
It's about 40 or probably 5040

394
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:07,720
to 50 KS away.
You know, big 36 million tonne

395
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,720
per annum plant owned by
Newmont.

396
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:15,440
Look would could Regis bloody
just they it sounds like they

397
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,480
could mine this mine.
They just can't put ATSF in

398
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,240
there, which means you can't put
a mill in.

399
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,720
Could they actually mine it
truck it bloody 50 KS.

400
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,160
If you negate, you know, half a
billion dollars worth of CapEx

401
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,720
to do that, would that work?
I think with the sounds like

402
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,720
they'd still have to put in a
lot of that pond infrastructure

403
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,600
'cause it's a 0 discharge site,
1 gramme dirt tracking it 50 KS

404
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,960
probably too small for a bloody
Newmont to even consider.

405
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:50,480
So it's probably just the
economics just don't really add

406
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:51,920
up.
It just as I said before, it

407
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,200
sounds like if this operation
was gonna work, it has to be all

408
00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,360
in the same spot run efficiently
on a big scale to actually bring

409
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:03,920
in the chalkies.
So it's they're very they're

410
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,560
essentially being they're on
hold until there's a bloody

411
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,720
either doesn't look like there's
going to be a backflip on the

412
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,880
decision from this government.
They're literally be hoping for,

413
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,640
like they said, they're going to
go down the legal route with it.

414
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,680
But it'd either have to be a
change in government that would

415
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,600
actually put this throat or
something in the High Court to

416
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,120
actually overturn it.
Which gigs you'd be bloody.

417
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:32,160
That could take freaking years.
Yeah.

418
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,640
And I guess so.
I mean, what's what's next?

419
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,800
I mean, there was sort of a lot
of questions on the call today

420
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:45,120
with with Jim about sort of, you
know, as how does you know,

421
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:47,480
capital get reallocated
potentially from, you know,

422
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,000
Mcfillimmys to their other sites
and things like that.

423
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,240
But they're I think they're just
trying to understand the

424
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,080
situation themselves and get
some sort of definitive plan and

425
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,800
timing on what this actually
means full of them.

426
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,200
But you know, of course we can,
we can certainly speculate about

427
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,840
what what that means for them
next.

428
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:10,000
I think my conclusion is it's
pretty much put an L in the

429
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,480
coffin for their growth project,
whether you believed in it as a

430
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,280
growth project or not.
They are even more desperate for

431
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,480
for something outside of you
know, Dukeden and Tropicana.

432
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:27,520
What it could be, I don't know.
Is it, is it organic?

433
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,480
Is it more work at, you know,
Dukeden, you know, that is their

434
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,280
only asset that they operate.
Tropicana they've got a non

435
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,440
operating interest in.
Do they do something inorganic?

436
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,560
You know, do they buy something
in and around their area or

437
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,440
around that Laverton, Leonora
region?

438
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,720
Who knows?
Yeah, God, that bloody God.

439
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,160
They could buy a spa, but that's
like fuck, that's like 1 1/2

440
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,360
billion dollars there.
So and then you've got to put

441
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:57,920
the capital in as well for the
for the mill and everything.

442
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:04,640
So it's like, yeah, there, this
is definitely the right, the

443
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,080
right disco Cos this is not
going to be a like if it did get

444
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:10,680
overturned or whatever, like
that's years down the road.

445
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,080
Well, after the time they need
the friggin gold.

446
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,880
But even if it was overturned,
you'd think like, what's the,

447
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,160
what's the chance like something
like this could happen again and

448
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,800
not just within, you know, we'll
probably touch on a bit more

449
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,160
later, not just within regions
portfolio, but other companies

450
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:27,520
portfolios as well.
It does.

451
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,560
It does make you a little
nervous.

452
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,480
Yeah.
So it's like I think the whole.

453
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:33,560
Even if you are trying to do the
right.

454
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,600
Thing what's been thrown around
Gold Rd's, the one that keeps

455
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,200
getting thrown around for Regis
tying up with them.

456
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,120
As I said, whether something
around that Laverton district.

457
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,240
We run the ruler over Bloody
Magnetic the other week and that

458
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,840
doesn't look like the most
that's that's two years away if

459
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,560
someone decides to mine that
'cause it's hasn't even got a

460
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,600
mining licence yet.
No it doesn't.

461
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,560
It needs a bit more work.
So unless it's something L's

462
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,040
pretty bloody left field.
JDJBD you got any bloody punts

463
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,800
on you?
Well, Jim seemed pretty fed up

464
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,560
with Australia and its entirety,
so I wonder.

465
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,480
If you don't blame him.
Looking overseas, the other

466
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,640
thing I'd add to your comments
earlier, Ali on the NAV,

467
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,520
obviously you know consensus
we're quoting there comes from

468
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,160
the sell side calling it kind of
12% of the market cap for 150

469
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,160
million bucks.
It's interesting to parallel

470
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,520
that with the share price today.
It's it's flat the, you know,

471
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,280
the buyers of the owners of the
stock clearly didn't attribute

472
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,880
too much value to Mcphillimy's.
So you know, that kind of bodes

473
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,720
with what we'd said about it in,
you know, on the back of your

474
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,520
analysis of all the undeveloped
projects out there and then

475
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,440
going back a little bit before
that on the back of the DFS as

476
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:48,440
well.
Yes, on a on a more positive

477
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,080
note, CRE insurance let's make
that isn't positive, that's just

478
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,320
more positive.
Holy snap and duck shit.

479
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,120
I never thought I'd I'd think of
Africa as a mining jurisdiction

480
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:02,840
to be similar to Australia.
It's bloody similar parallels

481
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,080
today.
Since Australia's becoming like

482
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:10,920
Africa due to the police like CR
ES, African insurance expertise

483
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,840
is going to be bloody handy for
this Australian mining industry

484
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,920
going forward.
Bloody JD, you heard about the

485
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,960
offer?
Mate inform me and all the money

486
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,440
miners please.
Any of these mining companies

487
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,480
out there that just just feel a
bit bloody, they're a bit risky

488
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,120
adverse, give a give bloody Dave
Adam or Atari a bloody call from

489
00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:35,120
CRE.
They'll do a free audit on your

490
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:36,960
existing insurance that you have
in place.

491
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,440
So if you've got any gaps or
exposures that you might not

492
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,640
even know about, that's awesome
for free.

493
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,600
And you just take it and say
cheers lads.

494
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,480
That's the bloody mate.
Caught up with them last week.

495
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,200
I've vetted them as JCS Jesus
Christ, I know insurance.

496
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,480
I've never been so interested in
insurance in my life.

497
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,800
I love it, love insurance.
Oh, I got got a couple extra car

498
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,200
policies last week.
I'll just I've got the bug so in

499
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,360
about to take a look for you
phone numbers in the show notes

500
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,320
and one of the owners picks up.
Go.

501
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:15,040
CRE Love it JD.
Another interesting Regency

502
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,240
style story.
Silver Bonds.

503
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,240
No, it's let's not keep the good
times going.

504
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:26,960
The company, just the company.
So SPL on the ASX, so similar

505
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,120
like you say to, to Regis mate,
also in New South Wales and also

506
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,280
a kind of project that won't be
going ahead anytime soon.

507
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,080
We'll start this one up by
flashing up the spark chart to

508
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,640
people can get a feel.
And here, you know, what you

509
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,640
really notice straight away is a
massive Candlestick down and the

510
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,200
risk of being a single asset
company.

511
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,760
That's where Regis has a, you
know, a bit of a saving grace.

512
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,040
So they have lost over 60% of
their market cap in a couple

513
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,720
months.
They lost you know about 50% of

514
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,160
that market cap in a couple
days.

515
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,920
So they're around a $250 million
company just last week and

516
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,880
they're now sort of 120 million
ish market cap company.

517
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,240
Yeah, right, buddy.
So what's what's actually what's

518
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,560
the sequence of events here, JD?
So I'll give you a bit of the

519
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,480
sort of legalese type first to
talk through what's happened in

520
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,840
the courts and then we'll give a
bit of background on what's

521
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,160
actually happened.
But essentially early last week,

522
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,960
they came in saying we're going
to get our, you know, an update

523
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,440
on these proceedings that have
been going on for a few months

524
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,560
now.
And on Friday they went into a

525
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,320
trading halt and then came out
with what had actually happened.

526
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,520
So they've got this group called
Bingman.

527
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,280
They had essentially been
challenging the development

528
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,600
consent, which is essentially
their right to get development

529
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,120
underway for the the project.
Where in this project it's also

530
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,200
down similar area is it JD?
Down near Mudgee, isn't it?

531
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,360
Yeah, exactly.
So 30 KS from Mudgee, 260 odd KS

532
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,200
from Sydney.
Yeah.

533
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,360
Yeah.
So we'll, we'll Chuck up a map

534
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:04,280
and people can, can have a look.
Now, I said that IPC group, the

535
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,400
Independent Planning Commission,
before now they were involved

536
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,000
here because that's who Bingman
was challenging as well as, you

537
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,000
know, silver mines in the same
sort of process.

538
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,200
And you know, lo and behold, the
appeal comes through and the

539
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,920
court has upheld the challenge
put forward by Bingman.

540
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,960
And what this essentially means
is that silver mines cannot

541
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,880
develop the project.
They need to go back to the

542
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,520
drawing board.
But to to get into the details

543
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,560
of what has actually gone on
here and what the kind of point

544
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,080
of debate is, I think it's worth
fleshing out what the project is

545
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,520
all about.
Because similar to what we've

546
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,720
just spoken about before with
Regis, you're in, you're in

547
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,480
farming country, you've got
towns nearby.

548
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,480
It's not like in the, in the
Outback in WA, there's, there's

549
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,560
a bit more to it.
It's rolling kind of countryside

550
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,440
and we're talking about a silver
mine with a lead zinc byproduct.

551
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,480
So that lead byproduct was a a
point of debate amongst the the

552
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,680
local community there, although
that isn't actually what you

553
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,280
know, ultimately stops the the
the project from going forward

554
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,120
on Friday all.
Right.

555
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,840
So give us what's the what's
been the timeline so far, how

556
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,000
it's gone?
So kind of like Mick Philomy's

557
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:21,040
this has taken ages to you know
go through all the steps in 2018

558
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,920
feasibility study came out, the
EIS was completed and

559
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,280
development application was
submitted in mid 2020.

560
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,640
State approvals came through in
April of 23, so last year and

561
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,880
they were going to launch, you
know their final investment

562
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,280
decision later this year.
So they were they were pretty

563
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,800
far along.
And then you get this appeal in

564
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,000
in March and silver mines win
that appeal to start with,

565
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,600
although or they they win the
initial proceedings and then

566
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,800
Bingman come in and appeal it.
And that's what's you know,

567
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,320
Chuck to spanner in the works
just on on Friday to give a bit

568
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,160
of.
Detail Who is actually this

569
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,160
Bingman group?
Who are they?

570
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,000
Thanks for breaking me up, Ali.
They're, they're a group that

571
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,080
came around in the in the 90s.
They're, they're a group that's

572
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,440
sort of local to the region
there.

573
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,560
And what they're kind of putting
forward is that the, the

574
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,440
potential environmental and, and
health disasters that kind of

575
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,640
relates to lead and all these,
you know, other aspects of the

576
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,840
mine dust and so on would hamper
the, the farming nature of the

577
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,640
region as well as the tourism in
the region.

578
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:32,280
But it's, it's much more of like
a kind of technicality on why

579
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,880
the project isn't going forward.
They put this environmental

580
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,760
impact statement forward in, in
2020, like I said, but they

581
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,520
didn't include this transmission
line.

582
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,680
So there's this 13 kilometre
transmission line and that

583
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,080
wasn't included in the
assessment.

584
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,440
And then the the Supreme Court
Justice has come out and said,

585
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,760
you can't go forward with this
because the plan of what you

586
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,640
actually want to do doesn't
include that transmission line.

587
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,320
And one way or another, whether
it's positive or negative, that

588
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,040
transmission line is going to
have an impact.

589
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,080
So that previous ruling is, you
know, to no effect.

590
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,360
And here we are the the
company's share price is halved.

591
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,080
They're going to speak with
their lawyers and all these

592
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:13,440
things.
And then on the flip side,

593
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,199
you've got the group that you
just raised their alley talking

594
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:18,440
about like, hey, this isn't
really what we actually wanted,

595
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,320
but we'll take the win.
You know, and you know, to be

596
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,800
clear, it's it's not done and
dusted because these guys could

597
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,080
potentially still look at other
power options.

598
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,280
But kind of like Jim was saying
at Regis that that is a lengthy

599
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,840
process.
You know it takes ages to

600
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,560
knuckle down on on what you want
and the plan you want to put

601
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,719
forward.
To ultimately decide and to

602
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,360
reject that whole plan can take
years.

603
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,080
It's interesting.
It's power lines, the things

604
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,199
that have squashed it.
Considering how many fucking

605
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:50,159
power lines are going to go in
for all these renewable plans,

606
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,199
Sure, we have the bloody state
through all these transmission

607
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,199
corridors they've got to put in
to make this whole renewable

608
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:57,600
thing work.
So it just completely

609
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,080
contradicts that.
Yeah, yeah.

610
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,000
I mean, I I don't.
Think this one.

611
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,120
Those haven't hit me up.
Yet I, I don't think this one,

612
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,640
Maddie is, is as grim as what
you went through with Regis.

613
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,000
I think there's, there's still
options, but you're in a you're

614
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,400
in a rock and a very hard place.
They're picking between to

615
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,400
pretty bad outcomes for for
these mining companies.

616
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,080
Yeah, I don't know the best.
I like silver mines.

617
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,440
What's that?
Well, the best thing about mine

618
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,840
and silver, it's the same colour
as these.

619
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,360
Check these out.
That's a TSI.

620
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,800
Bolt a bloody DSI friction bolt
and a DSI posi mix bolt but

621
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,000
bloody sent to us.
They're silver.

622
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:47,880
They're silver in colour.
These these look like some of

623
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,880
the bolts I tried to put in like
after.

624
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,920
A back in the day get the.
Fuck out of them and then

625
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,280
snapped them off and there just
wasn't much left.

626
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,480
Bloody, bloody brilliant.
If you think, if you think

627
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,880
silver, you think DSI.
You know why?

628
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,280
What is that?
Silver is like gold.

629
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,640
It's a safe haven DSI.
It is the safe haven for ground

630
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,320
support supply.
Mate, do you know silver is also

631
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,120
the best conductor of
electricity as out of all the

632
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,160
metals?
Oh, better than copper, better

633
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,160
than bloody aluminium.
It is the best.

634
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,480
Just like DSI is the best ground
support supplier in the world.

635
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,400
All exactly the same.
Don't think Silver, think DSI.

636
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,160
Think the best.
Think the.

637
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,200
Best cheers for the donation
there.

638
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,760
Love it.
Oh God, we got to put some

639
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,720
bloody.
That's why we've got to have

640
00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:37,200
bloody sponsors.
We've got to bring some

641
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,240
positivity to the mining
industry.

642
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,840
Fuck me dead God, that's that's
what the economy's backed on.

643
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,000
Hopefully the mining companies
can bring the positivity next

644
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,480
time, Maddie, But I think we
should get into a bit of

645
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,520
discussion.
I've, I've spoken about, you

646
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,040
know, enough what has actually
happened specifically.

647
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,520
But I think it's sort of time to
to wrap the two together and

648
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,760
have a bit of a yarn about what
this kind of means.

649
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,720
And I know you've sort of spun
up some thoughts about

650
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,800
investment, you know, investor
confidence in Australia.

651
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,000
Would that be, you know, foreign
direct investment or just local

652
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,720
funds and whatnot, look into the
mining industry.

653
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,200
What have you sort of come to on
on that front?

654
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,520
Well, I think we'll probably
quote old Warren Pearce from

655
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,400
AMEC, who's obviously Amec do a
bloody shit load for the mining

656
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,960
industry and with this sort of
stuff as the, I guess the, you'd

657
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,440
say, they're industry body.
They're an industry body, the

658
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:30,960
middleman.
So they're bloody heavily

659
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,320
involved in this and they do a
lot of bloody good work.

660
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,280
Forgive them for not giving us
the award that at that ceremony

661
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,320
they outweighed that boy getting
involved in this.

662
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,600
So this is what Warren Pierce
said.

663
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,120
So this is incredibly
disappointing decision.

664
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:48,280
This is in regard to Regis
incredibly disappointing

665
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,160
decision that lacks reason and
common sense and sets a truly

666
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,440
terrible precedent for
investment risk in Australia.

667
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:57,320
If any project, no matter how
thoroughly consulted,

668
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,960
negotiated, supported NSS can be
knocked over by the objections

669
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:07,360
of only a few people and at the
end of the process, then how can

670
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,040
any company or investor have
confidence to invest in

671
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,040
Australia?
So as he said, like one like 1

672
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,440
government official in this case
of Regis has contradicted the

673
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:23,320
entire approval process buy and
just put a foot down.

674
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,120
And it arguably under parallels
to friggin it feels like we're

675
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,200
in North Korea or Congo or
bloody Sierra Leone at the

676
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:31,440
moment.
Fuck me.

677
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:34,920
Like to think that you'd, you'd
class Australia to have

678
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,000
sovereign risk due to like
approvals and permits is friggin

679
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,880
absurd.
With mining's the like the

680
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,040
biggest contributor to our
economy.

681
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,640
It's it's just mad.
Yeah, I just think it's friggin

682
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,840
mad.
So what do you what do you

683
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,640
think, Jada?
Mate, I, I couldn't agree more.

684
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,240
I think talking about mining
investment in, in Australia, in,

685
00:38:57,240 --> 00:39:00,960
in NSW specifically, I mean,
there were so many fascinating

686
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,800
call outs in the call put on by
Regis.

687
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:08,840
And it was interesting the, the
concern they had about operating

688
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,600
projects and it was very raw,
you know, the, the core, it's

689
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,160
obviously been a, a very busy
weekend for the guys there.

690
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,080
But the, the concerns they had
about projects already in

691
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,840
operation, who knows?
You know, like I said, they

692
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,760
haven't got the official docs
and all that sort of stuff.

693
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,960
So maybe we'll sort of reserve
our judgement on that front.

694
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,560
But if this throws into risk
projects that are operating that

695
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,080
have been operating for a number
of years, then I think it's a

696
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,800
sort of serious cause for alarm.
And I mean, we, we need to look

697
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,960
at this whole process.
I think that's the the takeaway

698
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,240
from our discussion today for
both these sorts of companies

699
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:49,160
like these are processes that
take years and years and years

700
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,040
already way too long.
What gives anyone the the

701
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,400
confidence to go forward with
these once they receive the

702
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,240
approvals and then they can
still have the project or the,

703
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,280
the approvals or the permits or
whatever it might be.

704
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,520
There's so many different angles
to it pulled off them.

705
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,880
Who's going to come and and do
business in Australia?

706
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,800
Yeah, and and I'll just I'd hate
to think that this like this on

707
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,720
the back of the Jabiluka thing
and how abrupt all that stuff

708
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:15,800
was and the timing.
I'd hate to think this is actual

709
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,600
just political gamesmanship
going into an election.

710
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,200
Like just.
For.

711
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,000
Strategy and I wouldn't fucking
be surprised what these bloody

712
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,520
clowns get up to and like, but
the, the work that goes in by

713
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,120
these mining companies, which
is, you know, fucking funded by,

714
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,920
you know, operations, but
shareholder money as well.

715
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,000
And the time that goes into
these processes and then they

716
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,840
friggin treat it like this is
that fucking disrespectful and

717
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,120
demeaning to the to the mining
companies that fucking work

718
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,160
tirelessly.
And they're coming from people

719
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,960
that have got no friggin mining
or business experience at all

720
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,240
running the country.
Drives me fucking nuts.

721
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,680
What we spoke about Nimb ISM in,
in the Western world and we

722
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,560
spoke about it in the context of
Serbia not too long ago and

723
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,360
Canada before that.
It's a, it's a similar story in,

724
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,040
in so many different countries.
And we've spoken about it with

725
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,920
various guests on the show in
every single nook of the, you

726
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,040
know, the, the so called Western
world.

727
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,240
And obviously every project
shouldn't be developed.

728
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:20,800
There should be a rigorous
approvals process to get

729
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,920
projects online, but you
shouldn't have a small minority

730
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,880
of people over ruling projects
that have already received their

731
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,680
approvals processes because it
can shatter the investment

732
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,520
confidence.
And you know that that might

733
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,640
happen bit by bit.
You might chip away at that

734
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,280
investor confidence slowly, but
all of a sudden, you know,

735
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,120
you've wasted so much capital,
so much human capital, so much

736
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:52,840
energy and time from, from
people that it just, you know,

737
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:54,800
I'm a bit perplexed by the whole
thing.

738
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,440
It's, it's super frustrating.
And I think the pro, the

739
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:03,240
processing approvals, you know,
timeline needs a, a serious

740
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:07,720
reassessment in Australia.
I mean, look at, look at the,

741
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,080
the NSW government royalties
and, and what they've kind of

742
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,160
done on that front.
Mining brings in $6 billion in,

743
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:21,000
in royalties in NSW alone.
Now 90% of that comes from coal

744
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,000
projects.
And you know, they've again been

745
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,000
increased from the 1st of July
2024.

746
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,040
That's not specifically what I
want to talk about here.

747
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,280
But the, the repercussions of
this, you know, it, it shortens

748
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,160
the life, it, it lifts them on
the, the cost curve, it makes

749
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,200
them a bit more uneconomic.
And, you know, maybe it's, it's

750
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,840
right to have them adjusted over
time, you know, with inflation

751
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:43,640
and all these short sort of
things.

752
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,560
But it gives a, a sugar hit to
the government.

753
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,960
It, it gives a bit of a, a sugar
hit, but it, it puts into

754
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,000
question all the, the jobs, you
know, 40,000 people in New South

755
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,680
Wales are directly employed by
mining, another 7000 people in

756
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,320
the supply chain.
And whilst I think some of these

757
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,880
ministers think there isn't a
serious repercussion or there

758
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,920
isn't a repercussion beyond just
the the company they're talking

759
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,600
about, I think there actually
is.

760
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,880
I think, you know, it's not just
that company, it's not just

761
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,720
Regis in this case, it's not
just silver mines, but it is all

762
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:19,400
the other, you know, the majors
around in the world that might

763
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,400
look to come and invest in the
state and the thing and hang on,

764
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,000
we might not do that.
And that, you know, 6 billion of

765
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,040
royalties, I know hits of it
comes from coal.

766
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,200
But sooner or later those
projects will, will run out.

767
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,760
And that's going to be a big
hole.

768
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,120
And like we, we probably don't
even need to get into the, the

769
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,440
government debt that's exploded
fourfold in NSW alone over the

770
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,480
past few years.
But it is a key source of

771
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,760
revenue, royalties, taxation,
income from the employees there

772
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:54,840
that has heaps and heaps of flow
on effects that I just feel

773
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,560
haven't been totally taken into
account in this scenario.

774
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,920
No, I agree with you, JD and
even just Minister plebiscite's

775
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:08,240
comments about, oh, well,
they've identified, you know, 4

776
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:11,440
four other options for a, for a
TSF to put there.

777
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,880
So it's just move the TSFI think
that's sort of what come across

778
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,000
in that statement is a bit of
ignorance.

779
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,640
Oh, just move the TSF and it's
sort of, it's, I'm not, you

780
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,800
know, affecting the mind like
it's fine.

781
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,840
It's sort of like, well,
actually there's a lot more

782
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:31,480
involved than just moving the
TSF and for all the reasons Jim

783
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,760
outlined in his call that it's
not just that straightforward.

784
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,360
There's just, I don't know, a
bit of seems a bit of ignorance

785
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:46,400
with respect to how this
practically can impact a mine

786
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,600
site or the mining industry more
broadly.

787
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,960
Yeah, complete ignorance.
They wouldn't even know.

788
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,880
They probably know they would
never have worked on a mine

789
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,600
site.
And speaking about royalties,

790
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,240
JD, they need all the help they
can get.

791
00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,800
Look at all the royalties the
government aren't getting from

792
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,760
the durries now since the vipes
are coming.

793
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,760
Like that's we need the mining
industry to bring the royalties

794
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,800
back because bloody champion
Ruby ain't bloody getting sold

795
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,840
like it used to be.
That's mate.

796
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,000
We could talk for hours about
government debt, but I think we

797
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,560
should steer clear of that one
for today.

798
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:22,360
All right, bit of a random one
to finish on this is saw this.

799
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,560
Antimony.
Yeah, antimony.

800
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:29,200
Saw this article in the last
week that China are placing an

801
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:34,640
export ban on antimony.
So antimony's widely used in

802
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:36,920
ammunition and other military
applications.

803
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,880
I think it's flame retardant as
well.

804
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,760
It's on the Australia's critical
minerals list and it sparked my

805
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,480
attention because the first ever
mine I worked at was the Hill

806
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:50,200
Grove mine near Armadale, NSW.
It's a gold antimony mine.

807
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,640
It's the largest antimony
deposit deposit in Australia at

808
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:59,000
this stage.
And it recently got so I was

809
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,480
there when it was Straits, which
then I think Straits went into

810
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,160
Eris got put on care and
maintenance and sort of had a

811
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,840
had a bit of a like a pilot plan
he set up sort of thing.

812
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,000
Recently got bought by Lavato
resources who they that would

813
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,520
explore them for lithium down in
bloody South of WA.

814
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,120
Recently bought the hill Grove
mine and it's had a few few

815
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:26,160
people have a crack at this
thing, but the antimony price,

816
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,280
I'll bring up a chart has
doubled in the past few months.

817
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,160
So in La Voto, up 50% today on
the news, they've got reserve

818
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:38,320
grades of 1.2% Stibnite and then
you've also got Southern Cross

819
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,120
gold.
That's the bolter, that's.

820
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,000
Been dealing with.
Expiration down in Victoria.

821
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,400
So they've they're gold antimony
as well.

822
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,680
So their results today are .9%
and 1.7% Stibnite.

823
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,760
So Stibnite is the antimony
mineral.

824
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,360
So it's amazing how one news
article can come out and you

825
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,720
start looking at the grade of
antimony just like that.

826
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:04,120
So no, that was interesting.
Something that mineral that

827
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,120
never gets talked about, but
it's doubled.

828
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,480
So and there's not many options
for it in Australia.

829
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:12,480
So that's fine.
Very interesting.

830
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:15,120
The only good news story come
out of NSW.

831
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:16,760
Oh, that was good.
It was bloody.

832
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,480
God, of course I was literally
that was the first ever joined

833
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,440
on.
So I'm walking around with two

834
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,200
left feet as per usual and oh,
it's bloody.

835
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,920
Yes, I'll cause more harm than
good there, no doubt.

836
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,040
It's a fucking pain in the ass.
Sorry to all those people that I

837
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,240
worked with, shout out Jeremy
Rowlands.

838
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,920
You know that is a is a fun
fact.

839
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,520
The the Superintendent there,
the foreman.

840
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:48,000
He was part of the rescue crew
for Beaconsfield.

841
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,200
Oh, the the trap miners, Yeah.
Oh wow, he got he assisted

842
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:54,960
getting the two guys out of
there.

843
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,720
What a legend he was on the he
was overseeing putting the pilot

844
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:01,600
hole in and everything.
So.

845
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,320
Yeah.
So.

846
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,720
Love getting a an insight into
the young adulthood of Maddie

847
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:09,480
Michael.
Back in the day.

848
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,480
Back is fucking.
Cold there?

849
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:14,280
Yeah.
It's only an hour and a half

850
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,520
from your hometown in Burrell.
Oh, good on ya.

851
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,360
Hmm, OK, I might go back to get
it going.

852
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,200
Sure, love.
I'll get me on the jumbo there.

853
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,520
Go back down the D, Clyde.
Oh, very good.

854
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:33,720
Alright, that's bloody.
Bit more of a downbeat episode

855
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,320
to find something.
So positive.

856
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:38,240
It's good to talk about.
Tomorrow, but we're yeah, it's

857
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,760
downbeat, but we're fucking
sticking up for the mining

858
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,960
industry.
We're sticking up for Australia

859
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,600
too, mate, and Australia,
hopefully things can sort of

860
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,800
come to their senses.
Don't like getting too political

861
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,080
on the show and, you know,
really want to talk about it

862
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,720
from a yeah.
But you, you want to talk about

863
00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:00,000
it from a, you know, a non
partisan sense.

864
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,480
You want common sense in in
government.

865
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,600
I don't care who's who's in
power for that.

866
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,520
You just want, you know,
policies and procedures that

867
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,440
make the most of the the time
and effort and capital that gets

868
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,840
sunk into these things.
You know what else is common

869
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,200
sense, JD?
Using access mining technology,

870
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:19,160
Yeah.
Pretty.

871
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,880
Great segment, top of the show.
They're pretty much the anti

872
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,280
government.
That just makes sense.

873
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,040
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
A.

874
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,000
Common sense.
Who else makes sense to you,

875
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:30,480
Jay?
So ohh.

876
00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:34,080
Mineral mining services.
That's, yeah, a lot of sense

877
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,360
there.
Verify obvious smack power and

878
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,880
technology.
Did that make much sense to you

879
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:40,840
when you were getting?
Explained.

880
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:47,280
Initially no, but now yes.
DSI earlier in the show,

881
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,800
Silverstone CR insurance at the
top of the show as well.

882
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,640
Greenlands equipment K drill and
you spark.

883
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,560
Ohh Hodoro money miners.
Hodoro.

884
00:49:57,720 --> 00:49:59,400
Go Australia.
Australia.

885
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:02,840
Australia.
Information contained in this

886
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,560
episode of Money of Mine is of
general nature only and does not

887
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,200
take into account the
objectives, financial situation

888
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,280
or needs of any particular
person.

889
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,600
Before making any investment
decision, you should consult

890
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,680
with your financial advisor and
consider how appropriate the

891
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,360
advice is to your objectives,
financial situation and needs.