He Poured Drinks for Mining Legends. Now He Beats Them (Rick Rule)

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JD, the man that needs no
introduction today, Mr. Rick

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Rule, we ask him questions that
I don't think he gets asked very

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often or all the time.
We try and go deep about some

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historical things and I think
the money miners will get a lot

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about this because there's a lot
you can learn from history.

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Looking back and then reflecting
on where we are today, I.

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Couldn't agree more mate.
You know, I love my, my history

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delving back and we, we asked
him about some of the greats of

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the industry, some of the
stories, some of the

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characteristics that make people
successful, the ups and downs,

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the, the various cycles that
he's been subject to over 50

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years in the industry.
So I reckon the money miners are

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gonna love this one.
Mate, you and I just spent a

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week, a week over east really.
We, we flew into to Sydney, we

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drove to Newcastle and from
Newcastle we spent a few days

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there and then even ventured our
way to check out some, some

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wonderful, some wonderful coal
mines, you know, past, past the

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Hunter Valley to be honest.
Through the beautiful Hunter and

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it was all possible thanks to
our fantastic partners Sandvik,

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we got an even greater
appreciation for the beautiful

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work that they do in the ground
support industry.

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We got to see their Heather Bray
little operation there and the

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the rocks, the bolts, the plates
that they supply to this

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fantastic industry.
And we got to meet a lot of the

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team there as well in Fort
Scratchley.

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The wonderful team and most
importantly, mate, we got to

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give the billion dollar man, Mr.
Heard a check for a billion

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dollars in person.
The man, the myth, Derek heard

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the leader of DSI slash Sandvik
Ground support.

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If you're out there, you're
running an operation.

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Get an order in, use the app
that Derek coded up himself, The

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Wiz, and get on that today.
He loves being called the

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billion dollar Man too.
Just say, hey, Derek, I hear

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you're the billion dollar Man.
You'll love it.

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That's a thank you to Sandvik
Ground Support.

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Here we go to Rick.
How's the how's the last few

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months since we last spoke
treated you?

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You know, I mean, I, I wish
there wasn't a war and stuff

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like that, but the truth is
it's, it's sure been an easy

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three years to make money.
Oh, yeah.

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It's, it's so interesting you
you say that.

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I was, I was, I was reflecting
on like on, on some of your

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history, Rick.
And, and I mean, I mean, there's

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that, that, that precious bull
market.

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It was a between between O 8 and
2011 that you intentionally sat

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out of.
And I am so like curious, you

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know, why?
Why that one was was a decision

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to sit out and this one was easy
to make money in.

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Well, I made a mistake.
I mean, to be honest with you, I

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thought first of all that the
circumstance would be more

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deflationary.
I didn't understand that easy

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money would work as well as it
did and there were so many other

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opportunities other than
precious metals that appeared

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attractive to me.
Among other things, I was under

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invested in the broad economy
and the shares of Berkshire

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Hathaway fell by 52 or 53%.
And one of the things I thought

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is, well, this will be a real
easy way to rebalance.

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I can throw a bunch of money at
the best stock picker in

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recorded history and a guy who
by the way, buys stock in an

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insurance company wrapper so he,
unlike me, doesn't pay tax.

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That seems like a pretty good
deal.

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So, you know, I, I whacked a
bunch in there and the bank that

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we had then ever bank we went
into that early crash pretty

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cashed up.
And when the other banks weren't

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lending, we could and the FDIC
had a whole list of other banks

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that were empty that you could
take over for Dimes on the

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dollar.
So, you know, part of it was I

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made a mistake, plain and
simple.

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And part of it was there was
just too many other

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opportunities.
And now compare that to today,

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the opportunity set seems very
different, right?

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Because because a lot of stuff
the.

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Opportunity set is very
different.

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There is nothing that I know of
that's hated today.

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I mean nothing let me rephrase
that.

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There's nothing that I
understand well that's hated

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today You know, I have two
qualifications.

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I have to think that something's
a good buy, but I have to

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believe that I know enough that
I give a shit about what I

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think.
And the conjunction of those two

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circumstances is less rosy.
We do have a banking charter and

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I'm, you know, when the time
comes to add more capital to

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this bank, I will certainly do
that, but that's not going to be

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for six months.
So I don't know what I'm going

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to do right now.
I mean, I if we talked about, if

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we talked about this six months
ago, I was going to oil and gas

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business, but the oil price that
I was hoping for in 2029 is here

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with us today.
So I'm not complaining.

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You know it's just allocating is
getting harder.

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I'm curious on that, that period
of time as well.

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Rick, if we go back to the the
20 tens plus or minus a couple

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years with with the brokerage
business as well that eventually

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got wrapped up by Sprott.
How did that tie in with the the

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banking business that you had as
well at that point in time?

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The broking business was
different that that bank.

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Battle Bank was public or Ever
Bank.

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I'm sorry, it was public.
So I was just a shareholder, A

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founding shareholder, but just a
fair shareholder.

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The brokerage business was
private.

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It was owned by me.
And that means, you know, it was

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run by a coward.
It was in very good financial

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condition.
In fact, I wanted to run an ad

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in November or December.
No, no, I'm sorry.

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It was actually, it was in 2009.
I wanted to run an ad, you know,

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that the US government was just
giving away these TARP loans,

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and I wanted to run an ad in the
Wall Street Journal saying that

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global resource investment
neither needed nor would accept

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a TARP loan.
And I thought for my audience

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that that would be very good for
business.

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But you have to in the US
present brokerage industry

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advertisement to the self
regulatory authority for

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approval.
And they said Mr. Rule that ad

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is not helpful and will not be
permitted.

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But you know, we were, we were
able to do some things.

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We were able to press for some
types of business relatively

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aggressively when our
competitors couldn't.

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I think that ad, I think that ad
probably could have added 10 or

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15% to our client account had
we've been allowed to run it.

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I thought it was timely and
cheeky.

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It was true too.
You know, we, I remember our

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clearing firm used to say, you
know, you guys should have more

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debit balances, you should offer
more margin lending some punters

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money to speculate in penny
stocks.

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It's not my idea of a good time.
You know, I, I, I have credit

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criteria that are obviously
stricter than yours and you

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know, that served me well over
time.

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It did amuse me that our
clearing firm wanted us to allow

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people to use $0.50, you know,
50% margin to buy $2.00 stocks.

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And I didn't and don't think
that that's a good idea.

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The the the perspectives on
leverage have like certainly

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changed.
Remember, even starting in the

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industry, all the forms and
everything they still

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incorporate, you know, lead for
each margin.

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How much, but it's much less,
you know, pervasive these days

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than it was.
But all you speak with all the

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guys in the industry and
therefore, you know, from when

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they were our wage, like travel
my age, they were they were

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punting on God knows how much
time leverage and pay the price

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through the the various cycles
and and learn a few lessons.

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But it's interesting to see
that's still sort of ingrained

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in the industry.
My only guess is at that point

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in time with Global, it was
owned by me.

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I wasn't using somebody else's
money.

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There was this wonderful saying
on Wall Street, Wonderful is an

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illusory, but it's the phrase
when they do these goofy deals

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is I won't be here, you won't be
here.

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In other words, they were using
the firm's money to try and

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generate quarterly cash bonuses.
There was no real penalty for

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failure.
I, by contrast, owned 100% of

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that firm or 80% after bonuses.
And I would be here and they

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would be here.
And I had no incentive to do

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something stupid with my own
money.

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I think in a lot of financial
services businesses, the people

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who run the business have a very
healthy stake in the success and

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no stake whatsoever in the
failure.

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The consequence of that is that
they're may be more aggressive

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than they might be in a
different circumstance.

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You sold that business to Sprott
and by virtue became and still

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are there the largest
shareholder today.

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And you've got this wonderful
adage, Rick, which I remember

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from years ago, you talk about
your mentality verse verse

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Eric's and you, you say, you
know, your, your thesis for

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investing in resources goes
something like you always

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thought about protecting the,
the downside, the upside would

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take care of itself.
And, and Eric thought, if I, if

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I, you know, have a superb
winner and let it run, then then

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you don't have to worry about
the downside.

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And then you finish off that
adage by saying Eric's a

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billionaire and you're not.
But being the largest

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shareholder of Sprott with a $5
billion market cap, I dare say

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you might have joined Eric's
club lately, Rick.

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Well, Eric's done very, very
well.

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Eric's a unique human being in
that he is psychologically

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prepared and financially
prepared now to take loss.

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I would say my first two years
of Sprott and by the way, when I

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joined, I was the second largest
shareholder.

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He was the largest.
Were I the largest, he would

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have gone to work in a place
called Rule.

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I went to work in a place called
Sprott, which will tell you who

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is the largest shareholder.
I suspect that Eric's portfolio,

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and I don't know this for sure,
but I suspect in 2011, 2012,

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2013, Eric's portfolio lost 85%
of its value.

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There are not a lot of people
who either psychologically or

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financially could stomach that.
And Eric spent, Eric's been

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about six weeks in sullen
condition.

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I remember it well.
After that, he sort of dusted

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himself off and said, OK, let's
restructure this portfolio.

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We're going back to from where
we came.

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He's an amazing human being.
It is true that when he and I

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were visiting about our
respective styles, I said, you

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know, if you look after the
downside, the upside takes care

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of itself.
And he laughed and said, I

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believe the other way around.
I believe that a 20 bagger

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amortizes a lot of 35 or 40%
losses.

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The efficacy of his theory, if
you work as smart as him and as

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if you're as smart as him, is
proven by how much money he's

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made and by the way the money
he's made in this sector dwarfs

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the money he made in the prior
sector.

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He's just, I mean, the guy's
hitting long wall over runs.

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I'll tell you another funny Eric
story that's along the same

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vein.
When they took me over, they

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trotted me around Toronto to all
these institutional investors.

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And, you know, Eric and Peter
and them are basically saying

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that, you know, I'm the greatest
thing since sliced bread, my

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sweat doesn't stink, all this
kind of stuff.

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There was one, I think, pretty
smart Securities analyst,

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Chinese guy at RBC, and he said
so, Mr. Sprott, just out of

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curiosity, we've heard all the
stuff you like about Rick.

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What criticisms of do you have?
What's not so good?

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I think this guy's smart.
I got to see how Eric answers

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this.
And Eric started laughing and

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only Eric would say this.
He just has No Fear.

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He says.
The problem with Rick is that

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he's afraid to be right.
He has these wonderful answers

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and he hedges everything.
Some of the names he's talked

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about, when I hear about them,
they're his names.

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I'm coming in after him and I
buy five times as much, which

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says a lot, you know?
He's got, he's got marvelous

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risk appetite.
It's it's rare to say someone

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that he's that aggressive in
that size.

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And, you know, he's absolutely,
he absolutely regards being

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wrong as the price he pays to be
right.

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You know, when he reviews his
actions psychologically, he

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00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:35,280
says, I'd do them again.
Now, listen, I don't want your

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00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:36,920
people at home doing this, by
the way.

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00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:42,160
You know, we're talking about a
guy who works deceptively hard

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00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,720
and is really, really, really
smart, which is why he can make

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00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,680
this work.
And he has absolutely no

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00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:59,200
personal remorse if he loses by
now, if he loses $10 million in

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a deal, it won't change his
decision about anything.

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00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,040
Not the next deal, not what to
have for breakfast.

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00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:15,640
That requires a very stout
financial condition, but it also

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00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:20,480
requires an extremely mentally
stable human being.

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00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:27,880
There's no remorse around Eric.
I think his background as ACA is

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00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,880
chartered accountant is worth
understanding too, in that he

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00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,760
really, truly puts things in
arithmetic terms.

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00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,960
He is.
I don't mean this in a human

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00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,240
sense.
In a human sense, he's very

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00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,440
warm.
In a professional sense, he's

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00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:49,440
extremely cold.
If you'll remember the

241
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:55,400
Fosterville discovery in
Australia, that discovery, you

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00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,360
know, basically doubled the
stock.

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00:14:58,200 --> 00:14:59,880
And Eric made the point, which
is very true.

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00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,480
He said statistically it's much
cheaper now than before.

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00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,120
It doubled because you have the
information.

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00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,560
Other people's minds aren't
wired that way.

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00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,720
I'm also curious to hear Rick,
the the other lessons coming out

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00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,640
of that late China boom, 28 to
2012.

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00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,640
You know, taking an 85% haircut
for him would have been pretty

250
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,920
catastrophic for most people.
Are there kind of lessons you

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00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,000
noticed in how he he changed how
we went about the market and

252
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,000
came to, to hear your thoughts
in, in the lessons you learnt

253
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,880
coming out of that boom into the
next one?

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00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,720
Early on he was in denial.
You don't have to say that.

255
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,400
When I joined Sprott, I found in
my horror that amongst all of us

256
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,880
together we had 1000 names.
There was no way we could follow

257
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,120
1000 companies.
So in a directors meeting, I

258
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,160
said, you know, we're, we've got
to cut this to the number of

259
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,400
names that we know well enough
that we feel as honest

260
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,600
fiduciaries that we can
represent the people's money,

261
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,640
which is to say we had to get
rid of 85 or 90% of our names.

262
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,120
And that was pretty ugly.
And for a while, Eric frankly

263
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:22,080
refused to participate.
And I would say through 2011,

264
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,000
part of 2012, he really believed
in these companies.

265
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:33,320
He believed in the people.
He believed that the what he saw

266
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,920
as the aberrations of the market
were temporary and he was wrong.

267
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:44,320
But when he came around then he
began to allocate assets.

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00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,720
He said, OK, my mistake was I
own too many names.

269
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:48,880
I didn't know the names well
enough.

270
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,200
I didn't have enough conviction.
What I need to know now is

271
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,400
figure out the names that will
give me to the the best leverage

272
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,920
to recovery, eliminate the rest
fairly ruthlessly and redeploy

273
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,480
the money.
And when he said about doing

274
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,800
that, it was impressive to
watch.

275
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,720
There's lessons from, from that
period of time.

276
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,640
I, you know, what 11 analogue
that's consistently made about

277
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:17,880
the period of time we're in
right now.

278
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,240
And you mentioned oil, oil being
at $100 already.

279
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:26,240
I mean, the, the parallels to
the 70s is, is, is, is, is stark

280
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,480
and rising.
And if I go back to your

281
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,760
existence in the 70s, Rick,
which I understand is, is quite

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00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,840
some time ago, but I, I know
you've got great memory.

283
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,960
I was surprised to learn you're
actually a bouncer in the early

284
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,280
70s.
So I'm, you know, we, we paying

285
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,120
attention to markets enough to
to draw the, the parallels to,

286
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:51,160
to today.
Yeah, I mean, you know, I need

287
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,000
to say I went into the
hospitality business, if that's

288
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,520
what you want to call it,
because I needed to go to school

289
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,600
during the day and I needed
money and I had to work at

290
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:08,920
night.
The only skill I had was I was a

291
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,440
big guy and I'd boxed for 10
years.

292
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:14,400
So I was able to get a job
employing both of those skills

293
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:15,720
at night.
So I'd go to school during the

294
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,480
day, but I was going to school
during the day to study natural

295
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,480
resource finance.
You know, through an odd set of

296
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,480
circumstances I won't bore your
audience with.

297
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,120
I proceeded very quickly from
being a bouncer to a bar owner.

298
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,640
Probably too quickly in
retrospect, but that's OK.

299
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:37,040
And my bar was absolutely the
epicenter, as it turned out,

300
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,080
ultimately nighttime episode or
Vancouver Stock Exchange.

301
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,320
So it was interesting to me.
I'd go to school during the day

302
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,880
and these professors would teach
me the way that finance was

303
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:55,760
alleged to work in textbooks.
And then at night I would pour

304
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,960
whiskey to the movers and
shakers of the Vancouver Stock

305
00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:59,720
Exchange.
And I would learn the way

306
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,080
finance really worked.
And they were not particularly

307
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:10,360
well related.
And it turned out that some of

308
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:13,400
the empirical lessons I learned
during the day, in other words,

309
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:18,000
some of the tools that I was
taught to know how to know, I

310
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,920
used to this day.
But the skills that I learned at

311
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:29,120
night, I use every waking hour.
I joke that I left the

312
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:33,240
University of British Columbia,
which was where I was attending

313
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,240
then, because it got in the way
of my practical education.

314
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,360
Given that my chosen vocation
was natural resource finance,

315
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,480
and given that I was making so
much money and learning so much

316
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,920
more at night, my academic
activities really truly got in

317
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,920
the way of my education.
I'm not suggesting, by the way,

318
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,160
that to particularly my minor,
which was geology or some of the

319
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,120
lessons that I learned in
finance weren't important.

320
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,720
But I do believe that the
practical education that I got

321
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,680
with the Murray peasants and the
Adolph Lundin's and the Peter

322
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,600
Browns of the World at Night,
people who turned out to be

323
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,160
legends in mining finance,
weren't more valuable.

324
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:27,680
I had the extraordinary good
fortune of having a guy named

325
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,360
Peter Cundall, who was a
globally noted value investor at

326
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:35,320
that point in time, take me
under his wing, and he was

327
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,680
really responsible for the
synthesis of what I learned

328
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,120
during the day and what I
learned at night.

329
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:44,720
Did did you appreciate it at
that point in time, those

330
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,520
people, what was their
reputation in the in the early

331
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,440
to mid to mid 70s already?
I did appreciate them.

332
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,960
I'm embarrassed now when I think
about how aggressive I I was as

333
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:03,400
a young man courting mentors.
I was absolutely shameless and

334
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:08,840
I'm delighted that I did it.
I wonder to this day why some of

335
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,920
them tolerated it.
I suspect, as an old guy who

336
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:18,520
likes to mentor now, that just
the sheer energy and ambition

337
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,000
that I exhibited then made
people want to help me.

338
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,240
These are people who had a lot
of experience, and I've come to

339
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,120
learn at age 73, probably didn't
have very much by way of legs

340
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:32,600
left now that I'm in that
position myself.

341
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,000
And I think probably it was my
energy that amused me.

342
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:42,040
When people ask me today why I
spend so much money and so much

343
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,000
time mentoring, it's because
it's my way of acknowledging the

344
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,400
debt that I owe to those
incredible people who mentored

345
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,640
me.
And I absolutely understood at

346
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:57,240
that period of time that they
were doing me an incredible

347
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,000
favor.
And I'm embarrassed to say, I

348
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,720
think that I continued
relentlessly to ask them to do

349
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,640
me more favors.
I think, I think that hits to

350
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,480
something I actually wanted to
bring up at the end of that

351
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,800
chat, but I'll, I'll ask now
because there's, there's

352
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,320
something there about legacy, I
think.

353
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:18,440
And, and you, you, I mean,
you're, I think you understand

354
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,520
legacy better than most.
You invest in, in, in, in, in

355
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,240
mining companies where there's
family legacy involved.

356
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:31,920
It clearly it stands a lot for
you yourself are the 4th author

357
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,840
Richard Rule if I'm not
mistaken.

358
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,560
So there's legacy even built
into your name.

359
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,200
Tell me about legacy and your
philosophy behind it.

360
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,240
Well, legacy is one thing,
particularly for me.

361
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,880
The legacy involving the debt I
owe our community, the people

362
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,160
who taught me, that's important
to me.

363
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:57,240
Legacy as an investment strategy
is important too.

364
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,200
I think that the three of us
have talked before on your show

365
00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:06,760
about Pareto's law, the sense
that accomplishment doesn't

366
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,800
conformably align.
That's the social science dictum

367
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,760
around the 8020 rule, the
suggestion that in any given

368
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:20,800
subject, 80% of the utility is
contributed by 20% of the the

369
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,240
participants.
There are two things that you

370
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,400
need to know about Pereira's Law
to make it work for you as an

371
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,720
investor.
The first is that it's a bell

372
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,000
shaped curve and there isn't
20%.

373
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,600
There's 220 percents.
There's the good 20 that

374
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,960
generates 20% of the utility.
I'm sorry, 80% of the utility.

375
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,280
And there's the bad 20 that
generates 80% of the

376
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,080
aggravation.
And they're both there.

377
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:50,800
So your first job is to hang out
with a good 20 and avoid the bad

378
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:56,560
20 Legacy comes into play
because if you run either lip,

379
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,400
either good lip or bad lip that
20.

380
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,440
What you'll find is that if you
put them through the same

381
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,960
performance dispersal curve,
they conform will be a line

382
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:11,200
which suggests that to 20% of
the 20 does 80% of the 80 or 4%

383
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,400
of the population base generates
about 65% of the utility.

384
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,760
I found, and it took me till I
was 40 to figure this out, that

385
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,640
that dispersal curve conformably
aligns at least one more time,

386
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,360
which is to suggest that 1% of
the population base generates

387
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,680
between 40 and 50% of the
utility in any given activity,

388
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,440
including mine finance.
Which means that the legacy

389
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:51,720
contributions of the Lundin
family or a Robert Friedland are

390
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:58,000
just stupendous.
The value of aligning yourself

391
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,600
with someone and a team who has
a proven legacy of success at

392
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,240
the task at hand is of almost
immeasurable value.

393
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,280
And that's important.
You get tempted to invest in

394
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,800
early stage companies for a
variety of reasons, but

395
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,840
particularly efficacy of the
storyteller.

396
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,320
But the truth is that the most
important determinant of your

397
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:31,560
success is the applicability of
the team, particularly the

398
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:36,640
ownership team engaged in
solving the task at hand.

399
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,840
And that comes to legacy.
I'm having the good fortune

400
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:51,400
right now to study the operating
parameters of the third

401
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:56,560
generation of the Lundin family.
I started doing business with

402
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,680
the scion of that clan, Adolph
Lundin, in 1975, if my memory

403
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,360
serves me correctly, and I did
billions of dollars of business

404
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:10,160
with his sons, Lucas and Ian.
It amazes me that their

405
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:16,080
grandsons, the grandson of a
billionaire, is as humble and

406
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,720
hard working and smart as those
young lads are.

407
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,960
You would expect them to be, you
know, dissipated with white

408
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,520
powder coming out of their nose
in some brothel somewhere.

409
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,040
Not the case.
And you wonder about the legacy

410
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:40,080
of a family like that, the
cultural legacy that allows them

411
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,720
not merely to continue their
fathers and grandfathers

412
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,680
legacies, but in many senses to
improve on it.

413
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,240
I'm very interested in how that
works.

414
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,760
Can you, can you share a bit
more about, about Adolf and, and

415
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,480
what made him kind of special at
the time, Like the, the no guts

416
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:03,560
no glory, you know, family
tradition shines through and

417
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,480
people throughout the industry
kind of know that.

418
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,480
But I think perhaps sometimes
people take the, the wrong

419
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,480
lesson and they just go and and
gamble kind of dramatically.

420
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,680
So what was it that stuck out
about him?

421
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:17,800
A few things that struck me of
an Adolf.

422
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,600
First of all, he was deceptively
smart.

423
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,800
People paid attention to the
fact that he was a good

424
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,360
businessman and he was a good
negotiator.

425
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,800
All those things are true.
He was also a really good

426
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,280
geologist.
He was really, really smart.

427
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,840
Adolf loved it too.
Adolf like money, don't get me

428
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:49,680
wrong, but his goal was never to
spend money his money.

429
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,560
His goal for money was to be
able to get bigger, to invest

430
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,840
it.
Adolf knew in his heart of

431
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,840
hearts, all of the world.
Never did, 3 or 4 times he was

432
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:09,840
broke, but he kept going, you
know, And when he hit something,

433
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,080
I mean, occasionally he'd do
something nice for himself or

434
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,720
more more likely, he'd do
something for Ava, his wife.

435
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,520
But it was never about that.
I mean, absolutely, positively

436
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,360
never about that.
My finest meals with Adolf, and

437
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:27,920
we had many, we're not at the
world's finest restaurant.

438
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,760
It was some place that we could
duck in out of the rain

439
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,720
together, have decent food and
have a good time.

440
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,240
He was just, you know, he was
just not about that.

441
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,200
Adolf also absolutely revelled
in the success of others.

442
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,240
He was the boss because he had
to be the boss.

443
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,880
But the idea that somebody else
came out of a transaction with a

444
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:58,360
lot of money is something that
Adolf really, truly liked.

445
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:07,320
Adolf also had a he had an adult
sense, a measured sense of

446
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,440
political risk.
Adolf believed, which I believe

447
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,760
is very true, that the most
dangerous government is the one

448
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,200
closest to you.
And he didn't believe the

449
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,960
jurisdictions ruled by white
people in English, according to

450
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,720
the rule of law, were safer than
other countries.

451
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,400
So Adolf was perfectly
comfortable in Ethiopia or New

452
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:35,000
Guinea or Argentina or Sudan or
Congo or Russia, all places that

453
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,480
I did business with him in.
And that is to say, it always

454
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,200
worked out for him.
But nothing always works out for

455
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,840
anybody.
I remember Adolf telling me

456
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:48,760
once, having a great asset in a
country that you're afraid will

457
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,440
steal it is much better than
having an asset in a country, an

458
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,640
asset not worth stealing in some
country that wouldn't bother.

459
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,880
And that always struck me.
Adolf also told me the

460
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,880
exploration risk, no matter, no
matter what you do, is always

461
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,040
high.
So why would you take big risk

462
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,000
for a small project?
A small project can only ever

463
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,360
make you small money.
But they carry big risks.

464
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,960
While a big risk, although it
carries, you know, big deposit,

465
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,960
while it carries big risk, can
make you big money.

466
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,880
Why would you juxtapose small
money with big risk?

467
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,600
And Adolf and his son Lucas in
particular.

468
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,960
We're never afraid to be wrong.
I could remember probably 10

469
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,920
times in my life and discussions
with either Adolph or Lucas

470
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,320
where we'd be discussing
something, going through the

471
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,800
pros and cons with a group of
us.

472
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,600
Finally, a Lundin fist would
pound on the table.

473
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,840
Say, OK, enough talk.
We know as much as we're ever

474
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,840
going to know.
We have to make a decision, and

475
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,520
if we screw it up, we'll fix it.
Up or down, Yes or no, right

476
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,960
now, to the to the extent that
Lucas staff gave him a chair

477
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:06,680
that had stitched into the back
of it the decider at a certain

478
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,240
point in time.
The whole Lundeen family has

479
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,400
always been very pragmatic about
the fact that they make

480
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:17,400
mistakes, correct?
We talked earlier about Eric

481
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,840
Sprott, the same thing.
At some point in time, when you

482
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,040
figure out that the odds are
against you, you fold.

483
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,840
Or if you figure out the odds
are with you, you go and there's

484
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,040
no remorse.
If you leave lose, you fix it.

485
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,480
It, it reminds me of this, this
story that somebody told Trev

486
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,800
and I kind of recently.
It was about Chairman Chen, the

487
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,280
the leader of decision Mining
and they were debating, they

488
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,960
were endlessly debating to, to
build a decline or build a

489
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,760
shaft.
I think I might get the details

490
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,200
wrong, but directionally it's
kind of right.

491
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,240
And the team eventually sort of
says, OK, we're going to build

492
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,400
the decline.
And he just slams his first on

493
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,000
the table, but building the
shaft, you can see the ore body

494
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,000
goes on forever, end of
decision.

495
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,160
And they just crack on.
And that that kind of foresight

496
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,600
and ability just to make a
decision and get on with it kind

497
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,440
of stuck out to us pretty
dramatically.

498
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,680
I had a similar discussion which
I can share now that Lucas Rest

499
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,200
in Peace is no longer amongst
us.

500
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:23,720
I pitched Lucas exploration idea
in the 90s, maybe it was the

501
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,560
early 2000s, but you know, 20-30
years ago I said Lucas, you

502
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,960
know, I own all these prospect
generators and all of these guys

503
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,840
are turning up five or six
prospects a year.

504
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,520
You're a prodigious consumer of
prospects.

505
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,840
Why don't we Co invest in all
these things together?

506
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,680
And the condition of me
investing in you investing is

507
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,440
that you'll get informal first
look at every project that they

508
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,920
do, but they'll probably have an
easier time raising money

509
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,240
because you and I are invested
in them, which means that likely

510
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,640
they'll be able to do financings
at higher prices and we'll

511
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,840
leverage off other people's
money.

512
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,320
Lucas says, Rick, that's a
really good idea.

513
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,600
He says, but, you know, things
aren't the way they used to be.

514
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,880
Now we have to go to the board,
and you have to explain this,

515
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,560
and the board has to, you know,
vote.

516
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,760
I said, OK, yeah, I'm happy to
present to a lot of boards.

517
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,120
So we trundle into this board
meeting.

518
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,880
I figured what board it was.
But we sit down and Lucas says

519
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,560
to the assemble, OK, now here's
what's going to happen.

520
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,560
Rick has this really good idea
and he's going to explain it and

521
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,880
you're going to vote for it.
That was his idea of a

522
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,480
democracy.
He was in fact decisive.

523
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,560
It was it was a very amusing
incident in corporate

524
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,720
governments.
But I, I do think it said

525
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:41,840
something about the fact that
people who independent directors

526
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,000
who existed in the Lundin orbit
had to be confident enough in

527
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,640
what they do and understanding
enough that exploration involved

528
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,320
risks that they were willing to
do that sort of thing.

529
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,920
There's a, There's a, a lesson,
there's many lessons from the

530
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,160
London family and, and one of
them I think relates to like a,

531
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,520
a, a topic you've talked ad
nauseam about.

532
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,440
And that's the, the value of,
of, of mispriced or embedded

533
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,320
optionality.
And for them, there was this

534
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,199
geopolitical arbitrage in some
respects, they could pick up an

535
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,159
asset like fruit of the military
from a major for, for peanuts.

536
00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:18,440
And, and it was, it was clearly
mispriced in the fullness of

537
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,360
time with their own, you know,
wits and capability have, have

538
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,679
been able to build a
tremendously valuable business

539
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,000
off of, off of that asset.
That point of optionality,

540
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:34,360
though, I think about it a lot
today, like like to find

541
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,760
opportunities where there's
embedded optionality, there

542
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,719
needs to be very specific market
circumstances or, or, or

543
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,560
political kind of, you know,
disparities between

544
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,080
jurisdictions.
Like like where do you, where do

545
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,360
you kind of look for, for these,
these cases of mispriced

546
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:48,400
optionality?
Because.

547
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,199
Because there are spectacular
returns that can come off the

548
00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:54,520
back of that.
There also is a requirement that

549
00:34:54,520 --> 00:35:02,240
one acts.
Too many times I've seen

550
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:09,040
management's that were not
entrepreneurial and they an

551
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,680
opportunity is presented to them
by the staff and they consider

552
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,160
it and they consider it and they
consider it.

553
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:21,920
The American parlance is ready.
Aim, aim, aim, aim, fire.

554
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:28,560
One would suggest that some of
the great entrepreneurs, the

555
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:35,320
Lundins, Warren Buffett, folks
like that short circuit a little

556
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,040
bit.
Even Eric Sprott, ready fire,

557
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,160
aim.
But the truth is that you have

558
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,680
to have the maturity and the
confidence of the education and

559
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,480
the staff to look at
opportunities where they see

560
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:55,960
problems and act.
I've known some really, truly

561
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,120
great entrepreneurs, Jim Bob
Moffett, who built Freeport

562
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,720
Mcmoran.
It was the same circumstance.

563
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,880
Jim Bob used to say, Jay, I'm
sorry, that's American

564
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,920
Parliament, James Roberts
Moffett, not Jim Bob.

565
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,600
When he would see an
opportunity.

566
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,400
He absolutely had the courage
capitalize.

567
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,040
Amazing.
I mean, imagine seeing a bunch

568
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:31,400
of green copper stain at 13,000
feet above sea level, 550

569
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,520
kilometers from the coast in
Papua New Guinea, where a labor

570
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,880
dispute meant that some of your
workers wanted to eat some of

571
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,160
your other workers.
And you build the biggest copper

572
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,400
mine in the world up there.
You have a 220 kilometer long

573
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:51,400
trommel to carry ore at the time
that Jim Bob fought through

574
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:58,560
Hertzberg and Grasberg.
I mean, not 1000, not not one to

575
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,880
1000.
People thought he wasn't

576
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:07,800
utterly, utterly daft.
And I suspected that mine makes

577
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,360
3 million U.S. dollars a day.
After 40 years.

578
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:21,080
When Adolf Lundin went into
Argentina to do Baja de la

579
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:27,720
Umbrella, he had a fairly short
fuse to make that project work

580
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,560
or else the Argentine government
would take it back.

581
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,320
Every other company in the world
that had the opportunity said,

582
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,960
well, the project's been there
for 20 years, why didn't it

583
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,480
work?
I asked it all for that.

584
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,880
And he says because the
government wouldn't allow it to

585
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,800
work.
I mean, this is really simple.

586
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,720
The circumstances changed.
So your response to the

587
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:54,440
circumstance has to change that
ability to look at things

588
00:37:54,440 --> 00:38:01,760
factually, not let your own
prejudice and not let that part

589
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,080
of history which is no longer
relevant, guide your decision.

590
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,520
There's been a wonderful set of
circumstances in the last 15

591
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,920
years where entrepreneurs have
looked at assets that were

592
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:22,200
redundant in the bowels of major
mining companies, projects that

593
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:28,160
had been stripped for cash
rather than had cash, care and

594
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,280
attention spent on maintaining
the project.

595
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,280
And they have taken projects out
of majors where the majors

596
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,000
couldn't make them work and made
them work in spades.

597
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,840
What this has to do is looking
at an asset with different eyes.

598
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,520
And the great entrepreneurs, I,
I that I've seen have seen, have

599
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:54,720
had the ability to look at
assets with that same different

600
00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:58,800
eye.
I remember my own mentor, Peter

601
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,720
Kundle, when I was a very young
man throwing a case study down

602
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:05,320
on the desk.
And he said, I want you to tell

603
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,080
me why this works or doesn't
work.

604
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,360
And unfortunately for me, it
wasn't a resource thing.

605
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,400
It was a Brewing Company.
And I will admit that that at

606
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,160
that point in time, I did do
some due diligence on brewing,

607
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:24,000
but not from the producing end,
rather from the consuming end.

608
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,040
And I looked at this thing and
for the life of me, I couldn't

609
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,560
figure out the attraction.
I mean, it wasn't going to go

610
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,840
broke.
The company was, you know, a bit

611
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,800
over capitalized, but they had a
they had a brand that was, well,

612
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,880
durable.
The sales chart looked like the

613
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,160
electrocardiogram of a corpse.
You know, it's like just

614
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,480
sideways.
The brand wasn't growing.

615
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,680
It wasn't shrinking.
It was making OK money, but it

616
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,920
wasn't cheap relative to the
amount of money it was making.

617
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,440
And I was just mystified.
You know, there's something

618
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,800
here.
But my training doesn't allow me

619
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,280
to see it.
And finally, I mean, it probably

620
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,360
took me two weeks.
Going through the balance sheet,

621
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,400
I learned that this Brewing
Company owned a brewery.

622
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,720
And if I remember correctly,
that brewery was in downtown San

623
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:28,720
Francisco.
And the brewery was carried on

624
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:32,240
the books at the acquisition
cost in 1910.

625
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:40,160
And by 1971 or 72, that real
estate was worth a lot of money.

626
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,840
But given that the brand was
going nowhere, it made perfect

627
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,080
sense that you would use that
brand and have somebody else

628
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:53,760
contract manufacture your beer
and you could sell that real

629
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,400
estate.
What Peter Kundle was trying to

630
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:02,600
teach me was that there's often
virtue or risk hidden in plain

631
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,720
sight if you are willing to work
hard enough and be

632
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:10,360
intellectually flexible enough
to see the opportunity.

633
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,760
I remember very well in the
middle part of the decade of the

634
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,520
90s, there was a truly ugly
civil war going on in Congo.

635
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,440
If my memory sears me correctly,
2 million people died not merely

636
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,720
of gunfire but AIDS, Ebola, you
know, starvation, all that, a

637
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:34,280
truly ugly, ugly, ugly fight.
And Adolf, in the middle of that

638
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,240
went to Congo.
And he managed because there was

639
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:41,880
no competition or little
competition to get control of

640
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,520
the largest undeveloped copper
deposit in the world.

641
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:49,680
Take a food gurumi.
There were a whole bunch of

642
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,360
lessons there.
And I remember saying to Adolf,

643
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,680
I mean, what's the chance you
can pull this off?

644
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,680
He says, you know, at least
5050.

645
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,360
If I can't pull it off, I lose
X.

646
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:07,320
And if I do pull it off, I
change the fortunes of my family

647
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,320
and every investor who goes with
us for all time.

648
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,280
It seems like I need to try
that.

649
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:20,280
And he was absolutely correct.
The question is, to quote Robert

650
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:25,760
Decrepni, the size of the prize
and the cost of the test, That's

651
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,960
what it's all about.
And the really, really, really

652
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,280
good investors understand that
very simple juxtaposition, and

653
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,320
they don't create their own
realm for failure.

654
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:42,200
Similarly, when Adolf Lundin
went into southern Sudan, he

655
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,040
didn't make that big discovery.
Chevron had made it.

656
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:49,560
And I remember teasing it.
I remember teasing it off.

657
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,920
I said, also, you're financially
more durable than Chevron,

658
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,960
right?
And Swedish and Swiss foreign

659
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:01,680
policy is stronger than American
foreign policy in the in Sudan.

660
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,080
He said, no, I'm willing to try
and they aren't.

661
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,560
That's my competitive advantage.
For whatever reason, I'm much

662
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:18,080
more willing to lose 30 or $40
million than Chevron is, and

663
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:23,400
hence that's the success.
Another person that has ventured

664
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,560
into the Congo a bit more
recently is, is Rob Friedland.

665
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,800
I'm curious to hear how he first
came on on your radar.

666
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,120
You know, he tried his hand at
many different ventures through

667
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,640
the 80s into the 90s before
Boise Bay was in outrageous

668
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,680
success.
And he and he played his cards

669
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,640
marvelously there.
But what were the the first kind

670
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:43,800
of interactions you had with
him?

671
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:50,200
I first met Robert in the middle
of the decade of the 80s, and I

672
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:56,760
was struck first of all by the
fact that he was the single best

673
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,440
salesman I ever met, even that
early.

674
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,360
He was astonishing.
And because I lived in

675
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,440
Vancouver, at the time, a hotbed
of good salesman, I decided that

676
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,440
I would never give this guy any
of my money.

677
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:13,920
He was just too good, you know,
really, really, really, really

678
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:15,800
good.
I mean, the, the the the story

679
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,600
of just him convincing Steve
Jobs and they went to the same

680
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,480
college, university to go and
spend time on his uncle's

681
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,360
orchard farm.
Yeah.

682
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,640
I mean, there's just.
You will see in Steve Jobs

683
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,920
biography, wonderful biography
by the way, by Isaacson, that

684
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:39,880
Apple computer was named for
Steve Jobs internship at Robert

685
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,200
Friedland's Apple farm.
Amazing.

686
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:42,600
Unpaid.
Unpaid.

687
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,640
Now, it turns out it was an odd
commune.

688
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,720
All these other guys did all the
work and Robert got all the

689
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:54,400
money.
But Robert was very important to

690
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,520
Steve Jobs.
So, yeah, I, I, I think in terms

691
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,600
of qualifying Robert as a human
being, the fact that he was at

692
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,520
the same age a mentor of one of
the greatest businessmen in

693
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,640
human history, he says a lot for
Robert Friedland.

694
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,440
So I, I I came to watch him very
early on and he got an asset

695
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,600
that Hunter and Dickinson tried
to get the Summitville mine in

696
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,000
Colorado.
And he made for a while, a

697
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,920
spectacular market success out
of it.

698
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:26,600
I went and looked at Summitville
and I said, this just isn't

699
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,200
going to work.
You know, I mean, this really,

700
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,000
truly isn't going to work.
So I first met Robert by being

701
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:39,680
prominently short his first
company and at the beginning to

702
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,120
say that he wasn't fond of me
was a grievous understatement.

703
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,080
And it turned out that maybe for
the last time in my career I was

704
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,800
right and he was wrong.
He took the stock from a buck to

705
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,800
20 bucks and then he round
tripped it to 0.

706
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,120
So in my first trade I made a
lot of money with Robert, but

707
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:00,880
not the way that he would have
preferred.

708
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:08,800
His second swing at the bat was
something called Cornucopia that

709
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,720
I later took over as a shell.
It was a good idea, but Robert

710
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,440
in Canadian Parliament just
couldn't put the puck puck in

711
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,400
the net.
The third story was Quartz

712
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,960
Mountain, which was an OK
deposit, but it was in Oregon,

713
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,760
California, the state that he
loved, but a place where they

714
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,320
spell shop Shoppe, not a good
place to build a mine.

715
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,720
So I passed on that then.
And he wouldn't talk to me

716
00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:39,640
anymore, by the way.
But then he was going around to

717
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,320
people I knew very well, and he
had this thing called Fairbanks

718
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,920
Gold up in the tombstone terrain
in central Alaska.

719
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,120
And although Robert wouldn't
pitch me or because perhaps

720
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,840
Robert wouldn't pitch me, I fell
in love with it.

721
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:01,320
I just love the geology.
I love the fact that the market

722
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,400
was really skeptical of Robert.
The only reason I could think of

723
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,760
that the stock wasn't working
was because I thought the market

724
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,560
didn't trust Robert.
So I could see the problem.

725
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,560
And I absolutely fell in love
with the deposit.

726
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,360
And as the consequence, a
consequence of my falling in

727
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,760
love with the with the deposit,
I was redeemed in Robert's eyes,

728
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,320
which is very fortunate, more
for me than for him.

729
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,640
I have supported him at various
times in his career in bear

730
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:36,960
market when he needed it, but he
has made me look much smarter

731
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,360
than I am.
As an investor, he has been

732
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,960
responsible for leading and
financing teams that have found

733
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:49,280
more Tier 1 deposits than anyone
else I know in my generation.

734
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:54,040
If you look at what he's done,
the Fort Knox deposit, he

735
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:59,840
doesn't get credit for it, but
the gross Rose Bell deposit, the

736
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,680
Boises Bay deposit, the Oyo
Tolgoi deposit, the Flat Reef,

737
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,480
Kamoa Kakula, what's that, 6 or
7 Tier 1 deposits?

738
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:13,200
One guy, There's nobody else in
the world who's close in terms

739
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,440
of exploration.
The Lundeens, if you combine oil

740
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:22,960
and gas and mining, and if you
combine acquisition and

741
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,600
development and exploration,
have likely been more

742
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:31,520
successful, but no human being
has ever organized that much

743
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,360
success in my life that I know
of.

744
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,840
It's a it's a remarkable
contribution to society to to to

745
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,160
bring that you know that that
value on earth at via

746
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,160
exploration.
There's yeah, a lot of

747
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,120
reflections on these like great
entrepreneurs of, of our our

748
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,360
industry.
And what do you think of the

749
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:53,560
next generation of
entrepreneurs?

750
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,240
What do you see out there that
does give you?

751
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,160
They're better than we were.
Really.

752
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,400
Yeah, the youngsters are
amazing.

753
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,360
Every now and then I get
frustrated with some young

754
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,240
person in my domain, and then I
think back to what I was doing

755
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,920
at their age.
I've become much more tolerant.

756
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,520
You know, I, I didn't begin my
career knocking rocks or

757
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,240
pitching stocks.
I began my career whacking drugs

758
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:26,320
over the head.
And maybe that was useful for

759
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,920
the time and place I was in the
mining industry.

760
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:34,160
But the top tier of the
youngsters now, at least the

761
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,440
youngsters in finance are,
they're much better than we

762
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,240
were.
I think it's a sign of the

763
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:44,160
maturity of the junior sector,
the amount of capital that's

764
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,720
been available in the sector for
30 years, that we're attracting

765
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,280
a different caliber all the way
through.

766
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,280
And I also think of this is
going to sound politically

767
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,160
correct, which you 2 know I'm
not, but your audience may not.

768
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,160
But the industry is much more
inclusive.

769
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,760
When I was young, the whole
industry looked like me, which

770
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:15,280
is to say old, fat, bald, white.
You know, you have red, yellow,

771
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,200
black, brown, also white
entrepreneurs.

772
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,440
You have male entrepreneurs, you
have female entrepreneurs.

773
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,680
The truth is that we have in the
sector now every facet of

774
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,480
humanity.
And the idea that 5% of the

775
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,360
Earth's population was going to
generate 100% of the world's

776
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,840
utility was a pretty stupid
idea, but we were too dumb to

777
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:40,600
question it.
Now I'm running in.

778
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,040
And by the way, when I say that
I'm talking about the best of

779
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,000
the best, right?
I'm not talking about the length

780
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:52,280
and file of young entrepreneurs
or young people in the mining or

781
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,840
energy business.
But the best of the best are

782
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,480
more numerous than we are.
They're better, better educated

783
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,240
than we are.
With the exception of me, who is

784
00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:04,560
extremely well mentored, they're
better mentored than we are.

785
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,400
When I look at the human
resources in the mining and oil

786
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,680
and gas industry, I'm incredibly
encouraged.

787
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,400
How does that kind of contrast
with the numbers we say coming

788
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,440
out of WA School of Mines here,
Colorado School of Mines, Like

789
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,120
they're going in the wrong
direction for a lot of our kind

790
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,000
of perspectives, you think
people just getting different

791
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,280
educations along the way?
I was going to say, people in

792
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,640
finance, the entrepreneurs, the
business people seem to me to be

793
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,200
better.
Yeah, with the geologists, I'm

794
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,880
not so sure.
There used to be a lot more.

795
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,800
In the year that I entered
University of British Columbia

796
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:51,080
in 1970, if my memory serves me
well, there were 290 incoming

797
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,680
undergrads, and I think last
year there were 11.

798
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:01,720
That's a problem.
However, it's only a problem if

799
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:03,080
you limit yourself to white
folks.

800
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:13,880
If you look in India or Nigeria
or China or Indonesia or Brazil,

801
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,280
there's less of a problem.
And we have to look all those

802
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,520
places.
The future of the industry isn't

803
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:25,120
going to look like the three of
us, and that's good, not bad.

804
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,880
A different problem with
geologists is that I don't think

805
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:31,040
they're getting mentored as
well.

806
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:33,680
They're much better at using
tools.

807
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:37,040
They're much better desk job
geologists.

808
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,720
They have access to much better
databases.

809
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:46,680
The geologists of my epoch
usually had to spend five years

810
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:53,240
out in the field getting dusty
and getting beat up with other

811
00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:57,800
people that had seen those rock
sequences a lot in their life.

812
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,840
I think that the Geos, in my
experience, got better training,

813
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,800
even if they weren't inherently
as smart or well educated as the

814
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:12,360
geos today.
It may be that as a consequence

815
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:16,960
of the improved data sets today
and the improved tools for

816
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:22,320
analyzing them, that we can have
better outcomes than we did in

817
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,800
my day.
But I do think that the field

818
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,360
expertise of young geologists,
the amount of training and

819
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,280
particularly the amount of
mentoring that they're getting

820
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,320
is probably insufficient.
It used to be the young person,

821
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:38,560
I may as well say it, a young
man because they didn't have

822
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,360
young women doing it then that
would come out of school in WA

823
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,960
and they'd go to work for, you
know, CRA or Rio or something

824
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:51,480
like that.
They served a pretty rigorous 5

825
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:56,160
year apprenticeship getting
their boots scuffed before they

826
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,560
could do any real damage, and
that doesn't happen to my

827
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:04,200
knowledge very much anymore.
We, you know, we started, we

828
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,680
started this chat somewhat
talking about, yeah, how you cut

829
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:07,760
your teeth in the industry,
Rick.

830
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,960
And I do wonder, like if you
were, if you, if you were in

831
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,600
your 20s today, like the, the
financial institution landscape

832
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:16,520
looks, it looks different.
It's evolved.

833
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,160
They serve different purposes.
A lot of things have changed.

834
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,920
Like, like what would, what
would you be doing to carve your

835
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:23,640
way in an industry?
If you.

836
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,960
If you.
I would find, I would find the

837
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,040
best family office in extractive
industries that I could.

838
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,160
And I do exactly what I did with
Peter Condell.

839
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,480
I'd say I want to work for you.
So I'll work for free unless and

840
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,840
until at some point in time you
find an excuse to pay me.

841
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,800
Not the sell side guys.
The sell side guys may not know

842
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,160
the truth or they may know the
truth, but they don't always

843
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,680
have the incentive to say it
gets in the way of their fee

844
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,240
income.
And not the buy side guys using

845
00:54:57,240 --> 00:55:01,760
other people's money either, but
rather the buy side guys who are

846
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,680
using their own money
specifically.

847
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:11,080
I guess if I had the choice, I'd
go to work for the Lendeans or

848
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,160
Ross Beatty or Robert Friedland,
or failing that, one of the big

849
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:16,600
U.S. oil and gas private
families.

850
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:22,160
And I'd say you tell me what it
is I have to do to add value for

851
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,280
you and I'll do it.
And you don't have to pay me

852
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,400
until you've decided that I've
added sufficient value for you.

853
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:32,120
That's exactly what I did with
Peter Condell.

854
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,680
After I met him, he gave me some
career advice.

855
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,400
I went back and said, do you
know, I'd like to accept his

856
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,880
career advice and I'd like to
intern with you.

857
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:46,680
And I understand that my career
as a bar owner and restaurant

858
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:51,000
owner doesn't qualify me to be a
financial analyst.

859
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:56,760
But you told me yourself I'd be
a good one, so I want to go to

860
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,600
work for you, and you don't have
to pay me until you decide I'm

861
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,480
worth paying.
And that worked.

862
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,680
Rick, I've really enjoyed this,
this conversation, hearing all

863
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,200
the anecdotes of, of the history
get a lot out of it and I'm sure

864
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,680
the audience has as well.
I understand you've got your,

865
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,480
your course coming up in, in
July.

866
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,120
Why don't you just share share a
bit of the information about

867
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,400
that as tickets are running out
quickly last time I checked.

868
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:23,880
Well, thank you for that
opportunity.

869
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,960
The event is the Rural Natural
Resources Investment Symposium.

870
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:31,480
It's going on for about 30
years.

871
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,800
I'm sorry, I'm senile enough not
to know exactly when we started

872
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:39,120
it, but the truth is it's been
going on for that period of

873
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:40,800
time, which means we've stood
the test of time.

874
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,080
It's gotten a little better
every year.

875
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:46,120
So after 30 years, it's pretty
good, if I must say so myself.

876
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,840
This is a natural resource
seminar.

877
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,040
So if you come to learn about
crypto or AI or something like

878
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,640
that, please don't come.
This is also very hard work.

879
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,840
So if you buy the Sunday paper
for the funnies or the crossword

880
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,960
puzzles, please don't come.
But if you're prepared to work

881
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,000
and you want to learn about
natural resource investing,

882
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,000
please do work.
Please do come.

883
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,840
Here's why it works.
First of all, we have great,

884
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:15,400
great, great big picture
thinkers, people who tell you

885
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,480
about the word, the way the
world is, not the way that in

886
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:22,360
your country the the ABC would
have you believe it was, but

887
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:27,280
really the way the world works,
and that's important.

888
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,360
After that, we have great
natural resources analysts,

889
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,400
people who've been through bull
markets and bad people who've

890
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,640
made money for 40 years.
Then we have portfolio managers

891
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:42,040
who are different than analysts,
people who are where the rubber

892
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,400
meets the road, who have also
been there for 40 years.

893
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,720
At these conferences right now
you're getting newsletter

894
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,080
writers who made their career in
the last 15 months where

895
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,200
everything was up.
Of course they did.

896
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,480
OK.
You want to take advice from

897
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,960
people who've been there when
things are down, and we do that.

898
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:01,240
Our exhibitors are different
too.

899
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,680
At our conference, every single
exhibitor has to be owned in our

900
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,440
accounts.
At most conference conferences,

901
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,480
the qualification to be an
exhibitor is a check that

902
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,640
cashes, which in a bull market
is hardly a challenge.

903
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:17,720
Doesn't mean that every stock we
own goes up, but it does mean

904
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:20,480
that every single exhibitor has
been vetted.

905
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,920
We have a great feature called
the Living Legends where we

906
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:28,120
bring in entrepreneurs who both
built multibillion dollar

907
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:33,240
companies from scratch,
frequently named Quartermaine or

908
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:38,120
Friedland or Lundeen or I'll
give you an Australian, Stephen

909
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,880
Deans, people who've been
serially successful building

910
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,280
multibillion dollar natural
resource companies from scratch.

911
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,000
This is useful because they
teach you how they did what they

912
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:51,160
did.
They teach you how to find the

913
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,840
younger person, how to find the
$25 million market cap.

914
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,800
It's going to become a $5
billion market cap.

915
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,960
This year we're instituting a
new program called Future

916
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:04,160
Legends where we find people in
their 30s and 40s and 50s who

917
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:07,120
have already been serially
successful enough that their

918
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,600
past suggests that they'll be
successful in the future and

919
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:16,120
who, unlike me, have a future.
It's one thing to predict a 40

920
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,040
year it'll be a success.
It's another thing, sadly, to

921
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,280
predict to find a 70 year old
that's going to die.

922
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:27,200
It's going to be a very useful
feature finally at our

923
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,520
conference, unlike any other
investment conference I know on

924
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:32,600
the planet.
If you think for whatever reason

925
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,320
that you haven't got your
money's worth, no worries, I'll

926
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,320
give you your money back.
It's the only money back

927
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,520
guarantee that I know of in the
education business, but we've

928
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:45,960
been doing it for 30 years now.
Mercifully, our content's been

929
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,840
good enough that we've had to
refund about 110th of 1% of the

930
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:53,400
tuitions that we've charged.
Couple other notes, We're going

931
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,520
to give our attendees more
information in four days.

932
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,400
Then they can assume that they
can assimilate, that they can

933
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,560
get in 40 days.
We deal with that two different

934
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:07,840
ways.
I myself interview every

935
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,640
exhibitor and every speaker
before the conference, and I

936
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:13,280
post those interviews on
YouTube.

937
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:17,200
That means that you can allocate
your time at the conference

938
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,320
much, much, much more
efficiently.

939
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:22,280
Nobody else that I know of does
that.

940
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,680
Every single exhibitor and
speaker at my conference is

941
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,720
going to be interviewed by me
before the conference and all of

942
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,120
that data is going to be posted,
which is very useful.

943
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,280
The second thing is that the
whole conference is going to be

944
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,760
recorded, because when I say
four days, to get the most out

945
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:38,920
of the conference, you're going
to spend more than four days.

946
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:40,800
You're going to spend the four
days, you're going to take a lot

947
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:42,920
of notes, and then you're going
to go back and refresh your

948
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:51,080
memory on the conference notes.
I'm delighted to say for the

949
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:54,080
first time in 20 years that the
live seats at this conference

950
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:58,240
are sold out.
The conference is July 6th

951
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:02,840
through 10 in Boca Raton, FL.
But live stream, which is to say

952
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,000
the ability to attend the
conference remotely from

953
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,040
anywhere in the world.
Last year, by the way, 1400

954
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:09,920
people from 33 countries
attended.

955
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:14,680
That's open, that's available.
In order to get your money's

956
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,480
worth out of the conference,
though, it's important that you

957
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:19,400
pay attention to the pre
conference interviews.

958
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:24,480
It's important that you access
the conference recordings

959
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:29,000
because you cannot assimilate 46
hours of material in four days.

960
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,280
You cannot do it.
I put on the conference and I

961
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:37,280
have to view the recordings.
Finally, it would be advisable

962
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:41,880
if you use the conference and
the pre conference recordings in

963
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:45,720
conjunction with all of the free
material at the rural classroom.

964
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,880
For those who don't know the
rule classroom, Rule

965
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:53,840
classroom.com has over 300 hours
of recorded material including

966
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,440
introduction to Natural Resource
Investing, which is A5 and an

967
01:01:56,440 --> 01:02:01,800
hour 5 1/2 hour short course
using the information at the

968
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:03,720
classroom.
Using the tools that are caught

969
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,080
taught at the classroom around
securities analysis in real time

970
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,760
at the conference and before the
conference in the interviews

971
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:15,600
makes the conference an
invaluable resource for natural

972
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:17,320
resource investors and
speculators.

973
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:23,160
Thank you very much, Rick.
We've it's always a delight to

974
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,120
speak speak with you and we look
forward to doing it again in the

975
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,040
in the near term.
Thanks, Rick.

976
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,960
I look forward to that and by
the way, next year I'll be

977
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,200
coming down under the to the
conference season there.

978
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:36,600
I haven't done it for four or
five years.

979
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,640
So I look forward to catching
sight of you all in the flesh.

980
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:41,720
You tell us that every time and
we're gonna say that's.

981
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,960
True, Carrie Stevens has come
over to my conference for six

982
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,600
years, and I owe her.
While I'm there, I'm gonna do

983
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,920
the Imark conference and then go
up and visit friends and the

984
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:55,000
Atherton Table ones.
So I'm looking forward to it.

985
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:56,600
Fantastic.
We'll make it happen.

986
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:57,960
Cheers, Rick.
Thanks, Rick.

987
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,480
Rick, huge thank you to to Rick.
I love going into the the

988
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:02,960
history there.
And also a huge thank you to

989
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:06,240
Sambic Ground Support, XE
Capital, Intralinks and Focus

990
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:07,920
the platform by Market Tech.
Uduru.

991
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:11,440
Uduru.
Now remember, I'm an idiot.

992
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,160
JD is an idiot.
If you thought any of this was

993
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:16,680
anything other than
entertainment, you're an idiot

994
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:18,200
and you need to read our
disclaimer.