Gold Mania, Niobium Dreams, and Antimony Nightmares (Datt)

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We're sort of a firm that really
values the optionality of

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holding cash and limiting your
market exposure.

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It's very rare that we've
invested, you know, even a high

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90% basis.
So we tend to be pretty cash

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heavy.
I, I reckon we like what you

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were saying there, Manny, let's,
let's jump in with everything

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that's happening in, in the
market right now.

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It's just, it's just bonkers.
It's, it's crazy.

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There's so much to to see and do
and read and, and keep up to

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speed with.
So how, how, how are you sort of

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feeling about the markets at the
moment?

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Yeah, I think markets have been
incredibly strong and in true

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sort of risk off risk on mode I
should say.

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And and yeah, it just feels like
there's a real sort of flight to

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being long assets, not not only
in commodities, but across the

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spectrum, I would say.
And a lot of that is of course

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driven by, yeah, very
accommodative US monetary

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policy.
And yeah, well, it's great to to

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see, you know, to, to, to see
market so buoyant.

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Yeah, after some years of, you
know, being not so buoyant,

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especially in the commodity
space.

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Are you feeling pretty
preoccupied with the with the

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macro environment at the moment
and then just trying to trying

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to break down and do your
research on on the company

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specifically as much as you can
too?

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Yeah, absolutely.
So I think the, you know, it

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reminds me of, you know, years
past in many ways.

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And I think that, you know, when
I think back, this reminds me a

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lot of, let's call it the years
2006 and 2007 where which was

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truly sort of in, in risk on
mode across all asset classes,

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even things like, you know,
metals technology that we've

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seen so much of and defense
stocks ripping so hard.

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You know, it truly feels like,
you know, history's rhyming here

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in some degree, but it it you,
you really as an active sort of

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investor, you've actually got to
be very careful about being

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overly bullish.
You know, you can make a hell of

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a lot of money in these sort of
environments, which is why we're

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all here.
But you've also got to be

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protect.
Thinking about well, how do I

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get good at liquidity if
required.

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Let's jump into that 2006 seven
analogy a bit a bit deeper.

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What are the other sort of
things that that ring sort of

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similar?
I think that I always recall at

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the time we had disruptions in
uranium supply at that stage.

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Today we're seeing sort of this
a similar sort of dynamic in

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copper.
Most prominently I'd say we've

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seen, you know, I think it was
Grasberg, you know, an accident

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there that that looks like it'll
affect production over the in,

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in just in the last few days.
Then we've also got a number of

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other very, you know, globally
significant mines that are, you

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know, producing at lower levels
than anticipated.

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So it's a similar sort of setup
in, in that respect.

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And you know, I, I think also,
you know, things like, you know,

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new and novel methods of metal
recovery.

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That was something that was
actually very, you know, popular

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back in 2000 and six, 2007 and
this.

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Is before our times you got
Yeah, like I'm so curious about

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this because I know history
repeats and it looks like

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similar but different.
But that is absolutely a theme

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at the moment is is yeah.
The kind of hype around new

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technologies that can that can
come in lower on the cost curve

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for some niche metal or multiple
metals.

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And these stocks are the flavour
of the month.

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They fly.
They don't have to prove

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anything just yet.
They just need some contract or

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or government support to say
that they they might work.

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Yeah, that's absolutely right.
And, you know, just that metal

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recovery angle is something that
has become, so, you know, it

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seems like it's very
strategically important,

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particularly for, you know, the
US sort of supply chains.

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Back in O6O7, it was, you know,
the same sort of thing.

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It was more sort of to do with
tailings recovery and, you know,

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other sort of, you know, SEC
resources or technology

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breakthroughs.
I don't think any of those

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companies ever were successful
incidentally, but you know,

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tech, techno technology has
advanced since then.

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So you just never know, right,
with these things what might

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come about.
You know, investors have clearly

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bit up a whole range of stocks
in this sector because they want

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to have exposure.
Should you know these various

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forms of technology trans last
be able to scale up and achieve,

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you know, a commercial size,
which is going to be a tough

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job?
You know, it's not not a given

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that.
And that's what I've learned

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from experience, yeah.
I'm so curious, I'm so curious

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if you how you interpret those
like, yeah, investment

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opportunities.
Do you still participate on the

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premise of like, OK, I can see
there's going to be hype.

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I can see that there's going to
be, you know, retail interest.

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I can see that there's going to
be a rewrite on these things

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alone.
I'll get in and get out.

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Or do you just, do you just sit
on the sidelines?

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We tend to sit on the sidelines.
I think a lot of that ultimately

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comes down to experience.
It's like, you know, it's almost

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like you, you can often make a
lot of money by being naive,

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which is what I, what happened
to me basically, you know, 06/07

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and but you know, you, you have
to be very conscious of that.

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You know, you couldn't buy the
ticket, take the ride, but

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you've got to have a very
clearview of when you're going

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to get off the bus Ultimately in
you know me today.

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I think that we're not you know,
we're we're we're more

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disciplined, I guess, than than
I was in the past in investing

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in these sort of technologies
and, you know, having having

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scars from from the previous
experience.

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That's definitely sort of made
me a lot more sceptical of

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so-called claimed technological
breakthroughs and new processes

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and all the rest If.
If we think about the government

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intervention as opposed just to
the quote UN quote tech

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breakthroughs, how do you think
that actually permanently or at

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least in the medium term changes
the the playing field for

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commodities?
I think that ultimately it

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depends a lot depends on whether
these, you know, breakthroughs

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actually work in the medium
term.

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I, I believe that, you know,
recovering secondary sources of

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metal, if you would rather than
primary is always going to be a

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harder sort of task to do just
purely because to recover

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primary metals from ores, it's
basically, you know, a lot

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cheaper to do.
And it doesn't come with the

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same sort of logistical issues.
And the number of counterparties

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that you need to deal with in
let's call it, you know,

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sourcing circuit stock, circuit
board feedstock, for instance.

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There's a lot of hoops to jump
through just to secure the

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supply.
Whereas with primary metal

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recovery, you're typically
dealing with only a couple of

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authorities, if you would, and
from a single source, right?

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That's just what I how I view
things from from the top down

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and through a very, you know,
practical common sense approach,

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right?
Yeah, one of the the, the points

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you're going to, you know, hit
on, hit on earlier was just

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having, having the ability to
have liquidity when you know,

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when, when things kind of fizzle
from go from froth to fizzle.

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I for you, does that just look
like a substantial defensive

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positioning in gold stocks or or
more liquidity or like what,

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what, what, how do you think
about that part?

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Yeah, sure.
So I guess at the portfolio

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level, I we're sort of a firm
that really values the

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optionality of holding cash and
limiting your market exposure.

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It's very rare that we're, we're
sort of invested on a, on, you

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know, even a high 90% basis.
So we tend to be pretty cash

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heavy.
We're probably fairly cash heavy

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at the moment.
You know, we're probably holding

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about 20% cash.
But you know, pleasingly we've

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been able to sort of keep up
with the broader market despite

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having, you know, sort of low
market exposure.

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And you know, if, if things go
South quickly, we'll be in a

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really good position.
So that's where you really make

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your money by buying well when
everyone else is a for seller.

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So that sort of philosophy has
worked really well for us over

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many years.
So part of that keeping up with

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the market has been your
allocation to gold, which you've

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done really well in.
And we've spoken about this over

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the years, but things really
accelerated recently.

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How are you thinking about it?
Like right right here right now

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about your allocation?
Yeah, sure.

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So I think that Gold has just
had a fantastic run.

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You know, there's been so much
demand that's basically been

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pushing up spot prices.
And I read a really interesting

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observation just in this last
week and it was just comparing

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the, the sort of weight of
capital and the number of tons

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being bought on the gold market
by passive ETFs relative to

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central banks.
And it was just enormous, the

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sort of passive flow that's
coming that appears to be coming

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into, you know, gold ETFs.
So, you know, perhaps this

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strong gold price performance is
actually being driven by greater

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awareness, you know, from means
from investors that are, well,

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maybe we need to have, you know,
a small like 2 or 5% position

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allocated to gold in our
portfolios.

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So that's pretty exciting, I
would say, because, you know,

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central bank bank buying, it's
such a black box, right?

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You just never know what may
happen despite, despite, you

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know, long term strategic plans
and, and rhetoric, if you would

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from, from the major central
governments.

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But you know, what if you have
sort of embedded in the

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mainstream investor psyche that
oh, well, maybe My Portfolio

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does need to have a 5% gold
allocation, the upside is

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actually significantly more or
could be significantly more in

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terms of future gold, gold price
upside.

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But you know, saying that I'm
not a gold permeable by any

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means, but, and you know, there
are other asset classes to

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invest in, you know, in, you
know, what's clearly an age of

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financial vization and and
debasement of of currencies

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worldwide, right?
Doesn't doesn't necessarily

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matter what the asset is, as
long as it's, you know,

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something like a hard asset and
is recognized by other investors

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as having value, then those are
the assets you want to be long.

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And everything else is sort of
all the all this, you know,

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punchier stuff on that we
mentioned is really what would

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you call it?
Yeah, it's an ancillary effect.

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That's that's how I view it.
The within the the, the gold

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kind of you know, part of part
of the, you know, the hard asset

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equation.
Today's underperformer is

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tomorrow's outperformer.
It it appears with the gold

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names like for example, Volk
since just announcing A buyback

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up 55% in the space of like a
matter of weeks.

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Truly remarkable that that,
that, that, that happens and

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they were one of the the
underperformers before then

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where, where are you seeing
relative value in the producers?

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We had exposure to sort of a
broad suite of those midcap

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producers like Bolt and Genesis
from Elias.

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All the rest of them, I think
that they've had incredible

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performance in in recent times
as you pointed out.

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So I guess you know, the the
problem for the the sort of

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challenge for us is that where
is the value now that these have

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become the multiples have
increased, they've become

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probably more fairly valued than
they were, let's call it three

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months ago.
And I think that there's a lot

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of value in the next or sort of
the smaller producers.

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I'm thinking producers like
Meeka Metals, for instance, that

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are just going through their own
sort of ramp up and they're sort

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of in, you know, the Murchison
belt, which is being sort of a

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secondary belt in the in in
recent years.

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But now we're seeing obviously
production out of companies like

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Catalyst and West Gold in that
region.

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And if you're a producer being
sort of valued at, you know, a

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significantly higher multiple
than you were, let's call it six

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months ago, how do you capture
or enhance the value in your

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company, right, in, in a way
that's independent of the

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commodity price in isolation?
And I think to me, that means

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that, well, a, the most obvious
way is to secure more oil,

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right, and really kick out those
LOMS effectively.

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And yeah, so I think that, you
know, in the Murchison in

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particular, you've got probably
you've got a a couple of smaller

223
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,000
producers like Mika.
Then you've got sort of small

224
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,200
companies that are sitting on
deposits that weren't really

225
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,520
considered too valuable, let's
call it, a year ago.

226
00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,560
But now all of a sudden the the
equations really change.

227
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,800
So like the great boulder, you
know, the odysseys of the world

228
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,880
that are that are, yeah, fairly
small, but they hold, you know,

229
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,720
a valuable sort of resource now,
effectively.

230
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,000
Great bold is very interesting
in the sense that you could

231
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,760
totally understand the value
proposition of the value of

232
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,080
those ounces to a nearby meal.
But they, they, they haven't had

233
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:07,200
the same like yeah, share price
rewrite of many of the other

234
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,960
undeveloped projects in the
vicinity.

235
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:18,640
Yeah, I think that it's, it's
always, you know, it can be

236
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,240
tricky with the small players
because if I mean, they're

237
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,440
obviously they're clearly not
sort of #1 on anyone's list for

238
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,000
if if someone wants gold
exposure, full stop, right.

239
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,080
So you've re.
So the teams of these sort of

240
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,560
smaller companies really have to
be out on the road and, you

241
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,440
know, providing comfort to
investors that they've got a

242
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,360
plan.
The plan has, you know, probably

243
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,760
a shorter term sort of range of
catalysts that will add value to

244
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:53,720
shareholders to attract, you
know, the money effectively, you

245
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,520
know, you know, roaring gold
bull market.

246
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,440
No one wants to be in, you know,
the stock that doesn't move

247
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,600
ultimately.
And that's always the the tricky

248
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,080
thing as an investor, right,
That you don't want to be, you

249
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,200
know, if you want exposure, you
have to really take a, a

250
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,040
portfolio sort of approach with
it all just to mitigate that

251
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,720
risk.
Now Trav investors might be

252
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,840
having a tough time picking
goldies because there's so many

253
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,760
good ones to pick from, But good
thing for the gold companies

254
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,240
themselves, picking ground
support is easy because there's

255
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,880
only one name to know.
Sandvik ground support.

256
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,640
Sandvik Ground Support product
produced here locally in

257
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:34,000
Kewdale, WA for the whole of WA
and the broader Australian

258
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,160
mining industry.
There's only one name you need

259
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,520
to know in Ground Support, and
that's Sandvik Ground Support.

260
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,400
But I don't think there are
other names in ground support.

261
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,000
No, it's it's Sandvik or it's
Sandvik.

262
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,720
It used to be DSI.
So that that name, that was the.

263
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,320
Name.
Yeah, that name still lingers in

264
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:50,160
the memory.
Yeah.

265
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,720
But it it is Sandvik ground
support.

266
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,920
And we, we had the, the
privilege for the money miners.

267
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,440
We did a bit of quality
assurance and quality control

268
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,240
down at the facility a couple
weeks back just to suss out that

269
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,080
what they're doing is the
highest quality work.

270
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,200
And rest assured, it is.
I was super impressed mate.

271
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:09,119
People that work there take a
lot of pride in what they're

272
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:10,520
doing.
They do look at the.

273
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:11,760
Footage we're overlaying right
now.

274
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,920
Check that out.
Unreal mate, I was.

275
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,359
What did you learn there?
I learned what the process of

276
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,880
galvanization is like mate and
it is quite special.

277
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,960
Biggest facility in the southern
hemisphere here locally on the

278
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,400
outskirts of Perth.
Doing God's work for the mining

279
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,240
industry in Australia.
Mate you need galvanization if

280
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,840
you want to be, you know, just
durable throughout want.

281
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,400
Stuff to last forever.
It kind of does last forever.

282
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,400
That's it. 456 coats.
Just like Sandy, ground support

283
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,000
lasts forever in our minds.
Your minds, and you're going to

284
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,440
remember them.
When you need Sandy ground

285
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,120
support, go Sandy.
Have you gone all the way down?

286
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:49,160
I know we'd spit previously
spoken about some real explorers

287
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,320
and juniors.
Are you still allocating much to

288
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:56,120
to that end of town?
We do have a very a small

289
00:17:56,120 --> 00:18:02,240
allocation to that I guess sort
of company.

290
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,640
You know, perhaps another belt
that would be good to talk on

291
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:10,440
would be, you know, the Southern
Cross Belt, which is, you know,

292
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,600
you know, once again, it has
been a secondary belt in the

293
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:19,720
past that you've got sort of a
range of juniors, Golden horses,

294
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,160
probably one of the biggest ones
there, and you've got FRS and

295
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,600
TG6 as well.
What the heck is going on with

296
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,520
FRS?
This is just what I can't

297
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,080
believe.
It's this company's kind of just

298
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,520
yeah, doing deals.
Every day there's a new deal

299
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:35,760
and.
Yeah, yeah.

300
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:41,040
I don't know like.
I I can't stocks ramped to crazy

301
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,640
on and just seems to be doing a
new deal every day just buying

302
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,120
everything in the vicinity.
Yeah.

303
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,200
Well, well, it really goes,
comes down to the management

304
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:56,160
teams, right, that, you know,
we've seen the new MD there join

305
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:01,040
in A and in a very short space
of time put put his foot on, you

306
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:06,600
know, what's growing to become
a, you know, a reasonable size

307
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,200
of asset ultimately, you know,
in a gold bull market.

308
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,240
And they've been very aggressive
about it, right.

309
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,600
So that that's generally viewed
favourably by investors that,

310
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,480
well, you know, if yeah, if
someone's not just going to sit

311
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,280
on their hands and do nothing,
right, you've got someone who's

312
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:28,000
clearly motivated and aligned
to, to bulking out, you know,

313
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,720
the inventory of the company
itself.

314
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,960
And with with Golden Horse,
yeah.

315
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,800
What's the the the core thesis
with with their their portfolio

316
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,880
at this stage?
Do you see it kind of just

317
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:46,040
supporting one of the the nearby
mills in in either the something

318
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,920
cross operation or or Ramirez's
plant?

319
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,040
Yeah.
I think that, you know, they,

320
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,440
they clearly hold a dominant
position in the belt and they've

321
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:02,440
sort of gone about trying to I
guess firm up that resource

322
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,880
base, which they seem to be
doing reasonably successfully.

323
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,240
I'd say there's still, you know,
some way to go though.

324
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,480
I think that, you know, could
they be a stand alone?

325
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,480
What the standalone, yeah, how
how big the standalone need to

326
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,240
be in this gold price
environment?

327
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,040
That's what I my first thought
is previously, you know, it was

328
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,160
1,000,000 oz, but you know,
could it be lower?

329
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,000
I think it could be.
But then, you know, how do you

330
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,960
ultimately, let's just say you
can get yeah, milling capacity

331
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,840
or buy a plant or whatever it
is.

332
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,880
How does that look and how can
it be supported?

333
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:45,160
So there's a few different
factors there, but what we like

334
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:50,600
about the company is that, you
know, the land position is, is

335
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,440
significant and that's going to
be of significant value, you

336
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,680
know, ultimately.
And and they've been sort of,

337
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,480
you know, grilling successfully
for, for, you know, some time

338
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:07,320
now and they still seem to be
sort of fairly under owned, I

339
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,280
would say purely just because
they've obviously just shifted

340
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,440
across the ASX whereas from
from, from the DSX listing that

341
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,920
they were on in the past.
Yeah.

342
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,120
Another belt that I know you had
some some exposure to in the

343
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:31,640
past was the great Yandel belt
fire the company Yandel who

344
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,200
who's yeah had had a bit of a
run in the the last couple of

345
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,200
days on the on the back of Yeah,
yeah, proving up your car's

346
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,640
discovery.
Are you, are you, you still

347
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,400
pretty buoyant about the the
outlook for for Yandel?

348
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,920
I think the latest results out
of the ruckus were interesting.

349
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:56,600
I think that it shows that there
is some level of continuity

350
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,720
there.
And whether it is sort of very

351
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:06,040
early days there, I would say
still, you know, it's going to

352
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,920
take time, effort, money, all
the rest of it to, to really

353
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:16,600
sort of determine if Iraq is, is
a economic resource.

354
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,760
And yeah, I, I think that, you
know, they've got, they've got a

355
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,560
good team, they've got, you
know, a reasonable amount of

356
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:30,160
funding for my understanding
and, you know, a good register.

357
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,080
So are.
You worried about that register

358
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:37,200
component with with gold gold,
yeah now gold fields effectively

359
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:43,520
owning a a stake which yeah
could could could be could be

360
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,520
monetized that previously where
gold red row supporter.

361
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,360
Yeah, Yeah.
I think that.

362
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:53,560
Look, I think that to me, it
makes sense that Gold Fields may

363
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,000
divest if someone, yeah, comes
knocking the door looking for

364
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,960
stock, then it's really, yeah,
not at their sort of scale as

365
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,880
yet.
It could, you know, still get to

366
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,040
be proven.
But yeah, you know, I think

367
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,560
that, you know, it's, it's been
such a prospective belt over

368
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:16,320
many years that it, it, it's,
it's difficult to say, you know,

369
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,280
I'll predict the future with
these things, but, you know,

370
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,080
great sort of.
It's all about location, right?

371
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,520
And they they put in a great
location and it's just going to

372
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,720
take time and effort and money
to, to determine if there's

373
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,640
anything worth finding there.
Manny, if we, if we zoom out for

374
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,520
a moment, how do you actually
think about the, the portfolio

375
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,960
allocation to gold and how you
sort of size the positions for

376
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,120
all the companies we've we've
just mentioned in amongst your

377
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,520
broader portfolio?
Yeah, sure.

378
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:50,240
So I think that, you know,
obviously with supporting

379
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,680
explorers, you've got to be
conscious about how much or how

380
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,520
large a size you're willing to
run in your portfolio.

381
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,640
So for a junior will typically
be yeah, fairly small.

382
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:09,160
I would say probably like sub
sub 3 or 4% is probably yeah,

383
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:15,560
where we top out from a
portfolio level, whereas you can

384
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:20,160
take more risk sort of the, the
further you get all the closer

385
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,120
you get to producer.
So you know, development

386
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:27,280
companies, we'd be happy to
take, I don't know, 5 or 6%

387
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,920
producers.
You might go up to, you know, 7

388
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,320
or so percent, seven 8%.
Just just really horses for

389
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,880
courses and and what you're
actually trying to capture.

390
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,400
Yeah, from a portfolio
perspective.

391
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,320
Yeah, Yeah.
There's actually one more

392
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,920
individual, Goldie, that I
wanted to chat with you about,

393
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,120
Manny and I know you've spoken
about it in the past.

394
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:50,240
It was predictive discovery over
in in West Africa.

395
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,720
You still long that one.
No, we are not.

396
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,680
And that was a sort of a very
conscious effort, oh conscious

397
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:05,240
decision, I should say, to to
trim African gold stocks

398
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,240
thankfully just before things
got a bit dicey.

399
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,960
And the way I thought about that
is that, you know, you see great

400
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:19,120
asset assets like PDI and WAFF
was one of our exposures in the

401
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:23,240
past.
And one thing that's not often

402
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:29,280
thought about is that, you know,
as gold prices RIP in

403
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:35,000
jurisdictions with, you know,
weak rule of law, if you would,

404
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:41,040
that's when these assets become
increasingly attractive for

405
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:46,080
governments to, you know, put
their foot on or, you know,

406
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:50,080
nationalize or get involved and
just be a disruption basically

407
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,160
to to the assets owner.
And, you know, we've seen that

408
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:59,480
play out in with WAFF, you know,
and there's not too much you can

409
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,520
really do about it,
unfortunately.

410
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,960
We've seen other instances like
Kingsgate, KCN, you know, where

411
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,520
the Thai government basically
tried to nationalize their mind

412
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,120
and it took many years to
resolve, right.

413
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:21,360
And they, they managed to sort
of thankfully, you know, get,

414
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,640
get control back of the asset
and seem to be, you know, doing

415
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,920
quite well these days.
But you know, that's a real sort

416
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,000
of risk when you're investing
overseas.

417
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,800
So I think about, you know, you
see development projects that

418
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,760
actually really they, they seem
to be really sound like Tesoro

419
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:46,600
is what I can think of or
Santana Tesoro's in Chile, which

420
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,560
is a sort of, you know, a well
recognized mining jurisdiction.

421
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,200
But you, you see the presence of
majors and the ability to do

422
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,000
business there.
It it's a lot lower risk than

423
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,360
Africa and and Santana that I
mentioned is New Zealand, so

424
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,920
almost like Australia, but comes
with its own sort of almost

425
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,920
risks almost, Yeah.
So, so these are sort of, if I'm

426
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,560
going to invest in a developer,
these are probably the sort of

427
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,800
assets that I'd rather have
exposure to than APDI, right,

428
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,760
which is probably in a, in a
spicy jurisdiction in my view.

429
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,400
Makes sense.
The I am kind of curious like if

430
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,240
you were like of all of the
types of commodities, like all

431
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,960
of the commodities out there
right now, like on a if the if

432
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,760
the asset quality was was all
the same, like what would you

433
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,280
most be tempted to allocate
towards kind of right now if

434
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:51,400
every opportunity was equal?
It just really depends on your

435
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,840
time, on your duration, I guess
your investment horizon.

436
00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:01,360
I think that gold can continue
to be pretty provide punchy

437
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:05,680
returns in the short term.
But you know, over the over sort

438
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,640
of the medium term and onwards,
that's when you really have to

439
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,960
think about, well, where's
what's the demand going to be

440
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,200
for your house, technology going
to progress, what does the world

441
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:22,280
need, etcetera.
And that's when you know, you

442
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:27,840
come back to things like copper
that's obviously, you know, it's

443
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,520
sort of mineral that's hard to
find in in good quantities and

444
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,000
in good resources.
But then you have things like

445
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,160
niobium that are clearly going
to be extremely important to

446
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,200
future technology and material
science and all the rest of it.

447
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,160
So.
You've you've had a layup to

448
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,800
talk about WA 1 Ding Ding, Ding,
Ding, Ding.

449
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,560
You've ever had a conversation
with you where we don't talk

450
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,480
about WAY It's been a a name
stay of your portfolio and of

451
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,280
you, yeah, your fun's
performance, of course.

452
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:06,880
But yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's
really interesting to watch the

453
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,920
consistency of, of your, your
support kind of, you know,

454
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,920
through, through what is an
orphan period in the, in the

455
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,160
Lisson curve.
Are you, are you a believer that

456
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,720
the Lausanne curve kind of
doesn't, doesn't matter when you

457
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,400
have the asset quality?
I think it matters irrespective.

458
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,480
I think we saw, we've, I mean
we've obviously seen WA 1 trade,

459
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,480
you know, almost I think the
peak was about 22 or 23 bucks at

460
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,720
one stage and you know, it
pretty much halved from there

461
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,880
and has come back quite, quite
strongly now that they've de

462
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,800
risked their funding etcetera.
And look, you know, I think my

463
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,880
views are, are very clear on,
you know, just the absolute

464
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,840
Unicorn quality of this oil
deposit and that's only

465
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,440
strengthened over time.
Like we've seen catalysts like

466
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:09,480
the ability to, to produce
niobium oxide from the deposit

467
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,800
itself, which is just, it's an
enormous, you know, breakthrough

468
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,800
and one that was totally
unexpected.

469
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,200
I thought that will take him,
you know, two or three years at

470
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,920
least.
But it just happened, right?

471
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:29,880
And that to me, it, it really
demonstrates how great a quality

472
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,400
this this resource is.
And but, you know, these things

473
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,440
only get more valuable over
time, right?

474
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,320
And they haven't even defined
the extent of the resource.

475
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,280
So that's, you know, one of
those problems that you just

476
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:51,280
said and forget and come back in
10 years and yeah, just just has

477
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,080
all the, you know, factors that
we love.

478
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,800
And all we need is a Department
of Defence contract right from

479
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,560
the US.
So hopefully the the team

480
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,000
working on that.
Do you, do you think something

481
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,440
like that is, is likely?
Like do you think it it, it

482
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,320
lends itself to a, a, a, you
know, a strategic, you know,

483
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,880
deal with all of the, the US
activity at the moment?

484
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,480
Yeah, well, look, it's only,
it's, it's going to be the

485
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,040
world's only producing niobium
asset with no Chinese ownership,

486
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,160
right?
And that's a that's a, you know,

487
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,200
it's just flambergasting when
you think about it, right, that

488
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:40,880
every single producing niobium
mine on earth has, you know,

489
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,120
Chinese owner owner in the
ownership structure itself.

490
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,040
This is the one that's only, you
know, it's the the the

491
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,920
jurisdiction, the ownership
structure, everything sort of

492
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,640
speaks for itself.
So that makes it highly

493
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,120
strategic in its own right that,
you know, reminds me of little

494
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:04,800
made this analogy for that Linus
and the highly strategic nature

495
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,360
and value in in the resource
itself.

496
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,440
So I view this as being, you
know, an analogy, but you know,

497
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,280
if not better because rare airs
are hard to deal with as as we

498
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,920
all know.
But they seem to have really

499
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:23,800
been able to sort of crack the
niobium recovery for this all

500
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,120
deposits.
So all really exciting.

501
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,160
Yeah, over, over the medium
term.

502
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,680
I'm super excited to to talk
about Linus, but a couple more

503
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,640
on, on WA one first, when do you
think the, the timing would make

504
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,760
sense for an arrangement like
this?

505
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,840
Like we are still relatively
early in the, the discovery,

506
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,760
understanding and study process
of WA 1.

507
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,840
So how do you think about that,
that evolution and when joint

508
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,160
ventures with, you know, be it
government or major strategics

509
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,480
make sense?
Yeah, it's a good question.

510
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:03,960
I would probably intuitively say
that it would probably be post

511
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,640
studies.
I would say, I think the

512
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:12,400
challenge is with this resource
is just so tremendously huge,

513
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:17,480
over 200 million tons.
It's sort of a major sized

514
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,000
asset.
So that means it'll have

515
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,160
probably a longer time frame
than if it was just like a yeah,

516
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:29,360
little numb 20 million ton, you
know, resource that that was

517
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,120
constrained.
But you know, I think that that

518
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:38,800
does kick out the the time frame
somewhat, but it only increases

519
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,280
the value, right?
As as we've talked about, like

520
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,360
life of mine isn't going to be a
problem.

521
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,200
This will, this is some an asset
that will be producing longer

522
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:53,640
than any of our lifetimes,
right, ultimately and true, true

523
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,400
sort of multi generational
assets.

524
00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,960
So you know, I, I think that as
a shareholder, yeah, I'm happy

525
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,720
to let the team do things the
right way and take their time.

526
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,719
And that's ultimately going to
be a benefit to all shareholders

527
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,080
and the nation as well, right?
How do you think about the the

528
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,120
neighboring encounter, which
which is has now demonstrated

529
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,239
that they, you know, they have
high grade diobium themselves?

530
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,280
Would would you prefer to see
some form of, of consolidation

531
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,600
so that there's like we know,
11X China champion and you don't

532
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,520
have the, you know, maybe extra
supply come on to the market

533
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,480
that would be in a very small
market.

534
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,320
Like would you prefer to see
consolidation in due course

535
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,159
there or or are you sort of you
kind of just happy for for you

536
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,239
know, things to run their course
if there are if there are two

537
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:41,719
players?
Yeah.

538
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,000
I don't think Encounter have a
commercial resource or an

539
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,159
economic resource at the moment.
I think a lot of it comes down

540
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:53,679
to the, you know, the difference
in methodology.

541
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:59,280
So you know, Encounter have
obviously made a resource

542
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:03,520
estimate primarily off air core
drilling very widely spaced.

543
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:08,000
So there's a lot of what I'd
call inference of what the

544
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,920
resource is.
So it's a it's a much lower sort

545
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,600
of con confidence estimate, but
it's also, you know,

546
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,240
significantly smaller than what
WA one have.

547
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:24,560
And I think probably another
sort of small pet peeve I have

548
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,120
is that they haven't sort of
disclosed the multi, the full

549
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,480
multi elemental suite in the
assays itself.

550
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,040
So I don't know if they're, you
know, if they're always

551
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,560
radioactive, for instance, if
they're elevated, sorry, more

552
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,200
uranium results in there, who
knows, right.

553
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:51,840
So that to me sort of, you know,
downgrades the project or makes

554
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,720
it sort of less likely that it
is a commercial proposition if

555
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,840
if the company are not
comfortable disclosing, making

556
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,520
disclosures.
So, yeah, I don't think that

557
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,800
consolidation is necessary,
especially when you've got, you

558
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,320
know, an oil deposit that.
That is, yeah, it's an

559
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:11,800
interesting one to sort of
follow.

560
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,840
And yeah, they, they continue to
come out with bits and pieces

561
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,360
of, of results.
But the yeah, the the neurology

562
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,640
type plays and people jumping on
the niobium bandwagon as well is

563
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:27,000
not just limited to, to the
companies surrounding WA 1.

564
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,080
We're starting to see it more
and more across the world and in

565
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,000
in Brazil and in parts of Africa
as well.

566
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,040
So it's something to kind of
follow.

567
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:34,640
I don't.
Know now it's now it's antimony

568
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,800
neurology.
That one's taken off.

569
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,440
It's just.
MP materials Neurology.

570
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,360
Now that's.
The that's right.

571
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,240
And I think that look, you know,
and and you know, just to be

572
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:48,000
clear, I think encounter do hold
some great ground, but I think

573
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:53,600
that niobium was the flavour of
the month right at the time of

574
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,560
the discovery.
And they've obviously defined

575
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,320
some sort of resource.
But, you know, I like their

576
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,280
copper ground, for instance,
Encounter.

577
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,080
And I've always tell them that
don't talk about Nairobi.

578
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,360
I don't know about your copper
stuff.

579
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,800
And, you know, they seem to be
having some success there.

580
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:14,680
So, you know, I hope they do
find a big copper discovery in

581
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,080
the Western Runton.
And I mean, ultimately it all

582
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,560
comes down to infrastructure,
right?

583
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:24,000
This is such a remote part of
the world, but the potential for

584
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,280
big discoveries are so
significant, I do expect

585
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,600
there'll be more discoveries
bounty over time.

586
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:36,360
And you can see, you know that
in yeah, other other small

587
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,200
juniors, right, like Tarly
resources that are sort of the

588
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,240
little little brother or
considered the little brother of

589
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:47,360
WA one, but further to the South
there.

590
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:52,880
And yeah, I think that look,
these sort of propositions,

591
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,600
yeah, in terms of like encounter
entirely they're they're sort of

592
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:02,280
high risk, high reward.
And you know, the return profile

593
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,720
is is very and and nature of the
company is very different from,

594
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:12,520
you know WA one for instance.
The the elusive IOCG deposit was

595
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,600
what WA one were were hunting
for.

596
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,320
After all, if we if we jump onto
Linus now, Manny, what do you

597
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,280
think they're going to buy with
with all that money?

598
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:32,120
Oh, that's a good question.
I think that it feels like Eluka

599
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,720
are putting their foot on a lot
of resources and trying to sort

600
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:39,600
of get that feedstock for for
the rare earth refinery that

601
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,440
they're building in in WA.
What Linus do?

602
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,800
I think that Linus will probably
become more US centric given

603
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,360
that's where the market is at
the moment.

604
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:57,040
As you said, the MP metals deal,
they also had an agreement there

605
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,120
for, you know, a heavy reverse
recovery plant that they

606
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,920
announced, I think two or three
years ago.

607
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,840
So I think that that Linus
business will become

608
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:14,400
increasingly more US focused or
yeah, try and try and crack that

609
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,320
sort of, you know, supplying the
US given, you know, the clear

610
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,000
push towards re reinsuring to
the US.

611
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,560
So that's my sort of opinion and
what I think makes sense.

612
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,240
Yeah.
Very interesting.

613
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:37,520
I, what I, I feel like I've,
I've ages ago read your tweet

614
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,320
about antimony, maybe when it
was just like just kind of

615
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,520
becoming flavour of the month,
you know, like 18 months ago or

616
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,000
something.
And the persistence in, in the,

617
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,160
the, the retail interest and
attention in, in an antimony.

618
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:51,800
Maybe it was you that coined
antimony.

619
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,080
It might have been the first
time I've ever read.

620
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,920
Antimony.
I thought that was hilarious so.

621
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,640
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm kind of just like keen

622
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:05,080
to to, to peel into your views
on anti money or antimony.

623
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,760
Yeah, yeah, well, I should have
called it pro money because

624
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:12,960
going so well that was clearly
wrong there.

625
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:20,080
But yeah, look, I think Ant
antimony is, you know, just it's

626
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,960
a niche metal that is, you know,
the the, you know, highly

627
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:29,560
concentrated yeah in in Chinese
hands and and the industry

628
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,160
absolutely controlled by by the
Chinese smelters.

629
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,560
I think that, you know, I think
from my observation there,

630
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,480
there's a a lot of antimony
around it.

631
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,440
But you know, to really
commercialize these deposits,

632
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,840
it's hard work.
And look, it's, it's going to be

633
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,240
you.
You can't just develop an

634
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,440
industry overnight or in a very
short time.

635
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,800
That's my sort of feel about it.
So I think that, you know, it'll

636
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,200
take a very long.
Yeah, it'll only happen over a

637
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,440
very long time period, you know,
like and I'm going back to Linus

638
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:13,640
again because, you know, Linus's
view was was to basically

639
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,040
provide an ex Chinese, you know,
source of rare earths and to try

640
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,720
and break the stranglehold in
the industry.

641
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,920
You know, I look at it today,
Linus probably have about, you

642
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,320
know, 10% of production in
production globally or

643
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,600
thereabouts.
But you know, all the separation

644
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,440
is still controlled by Chinese.
So sure, they've made a small

645
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,360
impact in one part of the supply
chain, but not so much in sort

646
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,680
of the downstream separation.
So I think that despite, you

647
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:52,040
know, the move towards antinomy
that it's going to be a tough

648
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,360
nut to crack, you know, in terms
of supply or encouraging that

649
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,000
diversity of supply I should
say.

650
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,800
It's funny looking about all the
the explorers and juniors

651
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,320
hunting down and you think of a
company like Alkane that

652
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:09,360
actually produces in Victoria
Antimony and they're not getting

653
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,480
any of the the the rub of the
grain for it, despite actually

654
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,680
producing some of the stuff.
They've actually they've,

655
00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:17,920
they've had a big rewrite off of
the back of the completion of

656
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:18,960
the Mandalay.
It's.

657
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,280
Done super well, yeah, but.
It but it wasn't it wasn't

658
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,600
immediate, you know, it was
yeah, like, yeah, that was that

659
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,200
was kind of like a no brainer in
the in the the whole merit of

660
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:33,120
the deal was scale for index.
And that's exactly what

661
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,560
happened, right?
Yeah, absolutely.

662
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,400
And I think that, you know,
we've seen a number I guess of

663
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,640
these transactions just to, you
know, bulk up to get an index

664
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,640
inclusion.
So it really does sort of

665
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,400
demonstrate, right, how
important these passive flows

666
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:53,120
are becoming not only at the
company level, but at the

667
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,920
commodity level itself, right.
So it.

668
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,440
Probably underpins maybe like
the appeal of the the type of

669
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,880
company that is just below the
threshold, like you mentioned,

670
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,120
make it before, right, But like
if make your mind naturally

671
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,480
rewrite as they ramp up in in
the likes.

672
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,480
But there's, there's also like
pretty obvious merit for them

673
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,080
to, you know, to, to do a deal
with, with someone who's like a

674
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,880
$200 million market cap or, or
the likes and then.

675
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,680
Yeah, Yeah.
Well, you know, if you're a

676
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,560
catalyst, let's say that you
know, have been good at cutting

677
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:31,320
deals and you know, they're
they're right next door and you

678
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:36,400
know they could do with another,
you know, 60,000 odd ounces to

679
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,560
the portfolio, you know, next
next door to the Plutonic

680
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,480
operation for instance.
So that they're very and

681
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,840
they're, you know, multiples of
Meeka's market cap on, you know,

682
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,840
a larger production base.
But that's very, yeah, a very

683
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,880
obvious sort of candidate,
right, that I would expect.

684
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,840
Yeah, yeah, companies of nature
rather than.

685
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:03,280
And I think that those sort of
transactions in terms of, yeah,

686
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,960
larger companies buying smaller
companies is probably the way

687
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,840
I'm sort of seeing things
playing out rather than rather

688
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:18,680
than, you know, consolidation
of, you know, of small companies

689
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,200
like the Alkane Mandalay merger
that you discussed.

690
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,280
It's probably going to be more,
you know, big fish eat little

691
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,600
fish.
At this stage, I'd say if.

692
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,960
If we think about the other
inflation hedges and companies

693
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,040
that have done well for this
sort of same type narrative,

694
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,080
Silver Springs to mind.
Have you got any exposure to

695
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:37,640
silver?
Many.

696
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,440
No, because I think that just
the, I mean our last one was

697
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,760
Adriatic that is obviously part
of Dundee now.

698
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:54,600
And look, I'd probably say, you
know, the junior silverspace in

699
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,400
the ASX, you know, it's, it's a
pretty bare covered, right,

700
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:02,560
because just by the nature of
you know, the, the low value

701
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,560
nature, I guess of these
deposits, right.

702
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:09,880
And sure, they've become higher
value over the past year or so.

703
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:14,520
Platinum, Palladium, PGM's,
they're, they're a bit of a

704
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,560
flight, you know, like we're,
we're interested in them.

705
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,080
The, the, the rhetoric is, is
interesting.

706
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,200
Platinum's just best performer
year to date.

707
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,920
Have you been exposed to to that
as a real asset?

708
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,520
No, not at all.
I none of the Platinum or PGS or

709
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:34,800
anything like that, but it
really does sort of sort of

710
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:40,040
exemplify right, that the rush
towards any sort of hard asset

711
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,080
and I don't know how like I
don't, I'm not obviously not APG

712
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,840
or platinum expert, but I just
often wonder about what the

713
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,240
supply and demand dynamics are,
you know, what the justification

714
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:55,680
behind, you know, the price
rises has been from, you know,

715
00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:57,960
metals that are fairly niche in
nature.

716
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,200
Yeah.
Well, that, that's actually

717
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:04,640
really interesting point of
discussion because what we, one

718
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,760
thing we did here was like
there's been absolute plethora

719
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,840
of new, like new traders setting
up precious metals trading

720
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,600
desks.
And whenever that does happen,

721
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,840
there's, there's often like some
short term, yeah, like like

722
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,560
price, price squeezes in in a
smaller, smaller market.

723
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:26,440
So can might be able to explain
some of the, the, the health of

724
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,520
the, the prices in those metals.
Yeah.

725
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,600
Yeah, yeah.
If we keep going with the the

726
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,080
niche metal run around, we've
spoken in the past many about

727
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,920
metals.
XI believe you're you're you're

728
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,280
still a holder and that's
obviously one of only two

729
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,000
western ways to to get exposure.
But the tin narrative has been

730
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,960
fascinating the the last year.
Where are you sort of placed in

731
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,080
that and and thinking about it
going forward from here?

732
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,320
Yeah, sure.
So I think that tin is only a

733
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:59,920
small part of our portfolio in
Metals X And yeah, look, it's

734
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:07,360
one of those that I don't think
the supply and demand dynamic

735
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:12,000
has changed, you know, by
materially I would say.

736
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:17,040
And it just seems to be driven
more by, you know, this flight

737
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,600
towards miners than actually
producing cash, right.

738
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,760
And Metals X has been a value
plane for for a long time.

739
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,320
So I'm not surprised by, you
know, the recent uptick in in

740
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,680
the company's value.
And you know, we just hope the

741
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,280
management team, yeah, they've,
they've obviously gone out in,

742
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:43,160
in recent times to put their
foot on various tin or other

743
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,160
sort of development tin
development assets, which I

744
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:50,720
think really does show what the
expectation is, right.

745
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:53,840
In the coming years.
They're hoping or probably

746
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,360
expecting not want to be well
placed for a time, you know,

747
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,480
when in the future when, you
know, perhaps tin suppliers are

748
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,400
more constrained and they can
probably capture a lot more

749
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,800
upside assuming that that falls
to yeah or pushes up the tin

750
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,880
price.
So that's when these sort of

751
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,160
fairly marginal deposits and
projects become probably quite

752
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,960
attractive in a higher price
environment at some stage in the

753
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,360
future.
Totally, totally.

754
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,880
Yeah.
The in the, in the copper world,

755
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:30,560
there's just a real like
there's, so there's so limited

756
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,040
bite sized opportunities or
like, you know, copper

757
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:37,560
developers that are investable
for, for geologic reasons.

758
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:42,120
But I, you know, and I, I
suspect you're the kind of

759
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:47,680
investor that often does try and
play commodities via developers.

760
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,240
Are are there copper developers
right now that you're allocating

761
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:57,920
to or have allocations to?
It's yeah, I think that it's

762
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:02,920
quite difficult to find really
attractive copper exposure.

763
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,720
I would say on the ASXI think
there's, you know, there's a

764
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:11,280
whole sort of laundry list of
companies that have been working

765
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,160
development projects for a long
time.

766
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,720
I'm thinking things like Peel
or.

767
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:21,400
Management, yeah.
Yeah, or Hill Grove or Havilah.

768
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:26,560
There's, there's a whole, whole
range of, of, of companies out

769
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,280
there that are sitting on sort
of deposits that, you know,

770
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,760
weren't economic in, you know,
or have haven't been economic in

771
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:38,840
the past, but maybe they're sort
of getting towards Ding Ding.

772
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,560
Ding, Ding on both metals X and
however large should really

773
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,200
disclose but but yeah, so if
you've run the numbers over

774
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,240
these these companies and are
you, are you thinking that

775
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:51,840
they're interesting or are you
sort of maybe waiting?

776
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:53,120
For.
More catalysts.

777
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,280
Yeah, I think they're becoming
more interesting.

778
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,800
And this is where sort of, well,
I'd probably say we're sitting.

779
00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:03,640
We're involved in a very small
way, I would say at the moment,

780
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:08,960
but I think about, you know,
companies like Supreme, right,

781
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,560
which has had, you know,
significant expenditure on on

782
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,640
Nifty, which has been a bit of a
graveyard in the past, mind you.

783
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:20,000
But you know, it's, it's at
times like this where we're

784
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,120
seeing supply shortages that,
you know, may push up the copper

785
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,960
price in the future.
That's when these sort of

786
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,920
projects, you know, will offer
that promise of exceptional

787
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,240
rewards, assuming that the
management team are able to

788
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:36,640
execute and they can get it
funded and restart goes

789
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,520
smoothly, etcetera.
But those are sort of the, you

790
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,040
know, probably the more obvious
candidates, I guess.

791
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:44,760
The talkie stock, that one isn't
it?

792
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,840
Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.
But yeah, I mean, you, you've

793
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,080
got to be obviously conscious
about what you're investing in

794
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:57,280
and, and how the economics work
etcetera.

795
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,440
But you know, like going back to
something like Havilah tribe

796
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,800
that you mentioned, you know,
you'd look at the fact that,

797
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,200
well, you know, Once Upon a time
they they were in a sort of

798
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,040
joint venture with Oz Minerals,
right.

799
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:15,040
And that sort of demonstrates
that well, maybe there could be,

800
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,720
you know, some decent potential
there, right.

801
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:20,280
Well.
I, I, I agree and that's why I

802
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,080
earn the stock.
But I also think there's another

803
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:26,840
part of that option JV with,
with, with Osman rules, it isn't

804
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,920
immediately obvious and that's
that that option was part of the

805
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,520
defence strategy when Osman
rules were trying to negotiate

806
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,880
an uplift from, from BHP.
So they could, you know, well

807
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,120
look, whatever the sky high MPV
of this is, we've got to get an

808
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,000
up and they did get an uplift
eventually, but.

809
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,480
But it was.
I don't know if Osman rules were

810
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,800
motivated in the near term to
actually move there, but but it

811
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,680
does point out that it was
probably the best of a bad bunch

812
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:52,880
if if that makes sense.
Like I, I do think Cavalier's

813
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,240
probably better than Rex and we
saw what, what Rex went for,

814
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,040
like.
Yeah, Yeah, exactly.

815
00:51:58,120 --> 00:51:59,840
Yeah, that's right.
So there's plenty of

816
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,680
opportunity, I guess.
But yeah, you've got to pick

817
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,080
your battles like, you know,
sand fires, obviously the the

818
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:13,520
sort of high quality exposure on
the on the boss and you know,

819
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,920
but it's valued accordingly,
right?

820
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,200
Absolutely.
Should we wrap up with an

821
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,160
underrated overrated?
I reckon we should mate off the.

822
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,440
Top of our heads.
OK, I'll kick it off.

823
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:28,720
First up, underrated, overrated.
Many ionic clay rare earth

824
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:31,640
projects.
Overrated.

825
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:36,800
Shareholder activism.
Underrated gold.

826
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:41,600
At 3700 bucks.
Underrated.

827
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:52,640
Hard Rock Lithium.
I would say neutral.

828
00:52:53,560 --> 00:53:00,120
Australian Government support
for downstream processing in our

829
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,080
nation.
Income.

830
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,760
Yeah, I think commodity
dependent.

831
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:09,000
OK.
I would say.

832
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:18,760
Yeah, yeah, Falcon Metals.
I would probably say overrated.

833
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,760
I'm not sure if you've had the
chance to to look at this one,

834
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:27,800
but a little tin play Stella.
Oh, I would probably say.

835
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:37,960
I would probably say overrated.
Taking every meeting that is

836
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,120
that a brokerage has to put in
your calendar.

837
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:45,720
Oh, overrated.
Well, taking every OK,

838
00:53:45,720 --> 00:53:50,720
interacting with every every
kind of retail punter who might

839
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:57,240
reach out to you.
Oh OK, I think overrated.

840
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:04,840
Inflation concerns, specifically
in Australia, underrated.

841
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:12,360
Foreign capital moving into like
taking strategic stakes in in in

842
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,360
Australian assets.
Underrated.

843
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,280
The importance of having a a
major strategic shareholder when

844
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,800
it comes to an up and coming
mining company or junior

845
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:28,880
developer.
I would probably say UN

846
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,040
underrated.
Money Mine podcast.

847
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:36,120
Underrated.
Going to conferences.

848
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:41,560
Oh, I would probably say
overrated because I haven't gone

849
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,440
to 1 yet, so.
Interesting.

850
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,920
Yeah, Yeah.
You haven't gone to any.

851
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,320
No, no, yeah, never.
That's correct.

852
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,920
I like your different views on
on doing things.

853
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,120
Like I do remember the very
first time we spoke, you were,

854
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,560
yeah, you kind of were pretty
public in saying, yeah, don't

855
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,000
really meet with management too
often.

856
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,840
I like to make my own views.
And I also think maybe that

857
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,200
maybe that's changed a little
bit over time, but you were not

858
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:07,880
afraid to just do things a bit
differently.

859
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:13,600
Yeah, I think that that is
probably being relatively

860
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:19,520
consistent.
So I think that, yeah, I prefer

861
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:23,960
not to meet management a great
deal until we have a position.

862
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:30,360
But then, you know, if it's a
large position, then, you know,

863
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,640
you, you want to be sort of
really, you want, you want, you

864
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:38,160
want to have knowledge of, you
know, wanting back good people,

865
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:39,880
a good character and all the
rest.

866
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:45,200
And with the right sort of
incentives and, you know,

867
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:47,600
urgency I guess is probably the
right word for it.

868
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,160
So I find that it's very
valuable.

869
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:55,840
Once we've determined that,
yeah, we want to, oh, we want,

870
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,560
want this in the portfolio first
for a decent time horizon.

871
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,000
That's when you really get the
value.

872
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:07,000
But to make the investment
decision, it's yeah, it's the

873
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:11,040
same, same situation have.
Have you ever had that process

874
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:16,560
built a significant position for
for your fund met management and

875
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:21,040
then reverse your decision?
No.

876
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,760
Do you think it's overrated the
way that funds under management

877
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:30,400
can impact returns?
I think that you have to be

878
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,560
conscious of your capacity and
that because ultimately that's

879
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:39,880
what determines the size of
company that you can look at,

880
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,400
get involved, take seriously all
that sort of thing.

881
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:49,320
So if you if you're running sort
of like let's call it some 100

882
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:54,080
mil or or yeah, even some 50
mil, that's when you micro caps

883
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:59,920
become probably more attractive.
And yeah, it goes the other way.

884
00:56:59,960 --> 00:57:04,400
Obviously, there comes a point
when it's like, well, you don't

885
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,920
invest in, you know, the
largest, most liquid sort of

886
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,600
exposures.
And my last one, it's not really

887
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,080
an overrated underrated, but I
just want to know like if you

888
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:19,240
look back over, over the yeah,
every new investment you've made

889
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:25,800
over the last like 3 years, what
is the most common way that you

890
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:30,520
get idea generation?
Yeah, that's a good question.

891
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:37,000
I think that we read, you know,
a hell of a lot.

892
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:43,040
I think that we get a lot of
benefit in just staying on top

893
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:48,640
of the market news, you know,
just ASX reading ASX releases

894
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,160
every morning, right?
You get can get a real sort of

895
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:58,560
sense of how companies
travelling, you know, sort of

896
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,600
the the sort of ambitions of the
team.

897
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,560
That's sort of something that
isn't mentioned or talked about

898
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,880
a great deal.
But ultimately all these

899
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,600
companies run by people, right?
And you have to have that right?

900
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,640
Sort of everything else can be
perfect.

901
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:19,040
But if a management team doesn't
have ambition, that's, you know,

902
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:23,680
it'll never work out basically.
So that's what I found.

903
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:28,080
And, you know, in terms of idea
generation, you know, you've

904
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:32,120
just got to be really, you've
got to be really involved in the

905
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:36,080
present, I'd say, you know, not
only in the market sense, but

906
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:37,680
what's happening around the
globe, right?

907
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:42,480
Like we've seen this become so
prevalent that the market moves

908
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:48,640
so much due to what the, you
know, what the commentary of

909
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,120
President Trump is, right?
Every every day it feels like

910
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:57,480
almost, but you know, and and
that's a very stimulating

911
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,600
environment for an active
manager and for an active

912
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,800
investor.
So I think that's where you sort

913
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,720
of get the best returns by, you
know, keeping a constant pulse

914
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,400
on the market and what's
happening in it.

915
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,440
Manny, yeah, your results speak
for themselves, so appreciate

916
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,160
you coming on.
It's always great to chat.

917
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,880
And yeah, thanks for sharing all
your thoughts with us.

918
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,520
Yeah, no worries, guys.
Thanks so much.

919
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,800
There we go mate, another
fantastic bit of insight from a

920
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,840
favorite fundy of money of mine
manual dat.

921
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,760
And it's all made possible
thanks to our fantastic

922
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,480
partners.
Sandwich ground support focus

923
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,880
the platform by market tech
Check it out now and get your

924
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,480
tickets to imark.
October 21 to October 23,

925
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:42,120
investors go free.
We'll see you at Imark now.

926
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:44,880
Remember, I'm an idiot.
JD is an idiot.

927
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,320
If you thought any of this was
anything other than

928
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,000
entertainment, you're an idiot
and you need to read out a

929
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:50,560
disclaimer.