Gold Goes Vertical, We Hunt for Value (Ben Richards)

1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,720
JD, you got a preferred pick for
gold M and.

2
00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:06,480
AI do have a preferred pick.
Yeah, I think this is the best

3
00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,119
kept seeker on the ASX this
month.

4
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,040
My my gut feel is to pull some
chips off the table but enjoy it

5
00:00:12,040 --> 00:00:19,160
while it lasts.
I'm exhausted JD Ben I'm like

6
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:20,800
the market is moving so
fast-paced.

7
00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,440
I feel tired just keeping up
with it.

8
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,360
It's hard to it's almost hard to
lose money in this market at the

9
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,960
moment.
Things are that like fun and

10
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,680
crazy and awesome and we're,
we're, we're kind of hooked in a

11
00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,480
way that only happens in a bull
market.

12
00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:38,840
But even if it is only for a
period of time, who cares?

13
00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,280
It's fun.
We I'm I'm, I'm loving it.

14
00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:42,600
Are you loving the bull market,
Ben?

15
00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,560
We are it's it's always good to
be a small caps fund manager in

16
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,840
a small caps bull market,
especially when you do resources

17
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,280
and and gold is going vertical
by the day it seems.

18
00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,520
So now it's good market
conditions.

19
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,480
Hopefully can make some hay
while the sun shines.

20
00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,640
Could you imagine how like how
much you would be hating life if

21
00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,440
you didn't cover resources as a
small cap fundy?

22
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,040
And I know there's heaps of them
that do that.

23
00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:08,760
Like don't know why it's.
It's a big risk in the Aussie

24
00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:13,400
market, I think to kind of
ignore a 30% plus chunk of the

25
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,640
market.
But yeah, you do see a lot of

26
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,680
the East Coast guys tend to shy
away from it.

27
00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,360
Unfortunately.
It's working while tech and a

28
00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,280
lot of the other things that
dominate the small cap universes

29
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,000
are working as well, but for how
long it remains to be seen.

30
00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:30,680
What's your kind of natural
positioning to it, Ben?

31
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,200
Like personally, for instance,
I, I'm kind of scared, you know,

32
00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,320
it, it kind of terrifies me.
And my gut feel is to pull some

33
00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:40,840
chips off the table, but enjoy
it while it lasts all the same.

34
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,800
What's your kind of natural
feeling toward this type of

35
00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,000
market?
Yeah, I think it's probably the

36
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,560
right approach.
Having said that, I think if you

37
00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,520
look at a lot of the the flows
into the small end of the

38
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,920
market, that's kind of come full
circle since sort of 2022 when

39
00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,640
we saw interest rate rises,
money came out of small caps and

40
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,680
micro caps particularly.
And although it's kind of smalls

41
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,280
about performed large in the
last few months.

42
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,199
There's still a fair bit to go
in that catch up trade to kind

43
00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:12,640
of get back above on a on a
multi year basis.

44
00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:15,080
So bit of retail returning to
the market.

45
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,920
But I still don't think we're
quite at the, the heady days of

46
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,840
maybe peak kind of 2020-2021
where you had, it's felt like

47
00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,960
every capital raising was going
up and you had to be in

48
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,160
everything and, and your, your
taxi drivers making money, your

49
00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,760
neighbors making money.
And yeah, it's a, that was a

50
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,240
crazy time.
But I don't think we're quite

51
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,400
there yet.
My taxi drivers making making

52
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,120
money.
Yeah, I can.

53
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,880
I can hear him just like wow,
Uber jock.

54
00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:43,480
I could see him watching like,
you know, financial YouTube

55
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,800
videos as he's whilst driving
well as he's driving mobile.

56
00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,720
I had a friend sent me a a
picture inside of his own in

57
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,920
Uber in Singapore and he was the
Uber driver had the Uber screen

58
00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,800
plus the markets that he was
trading and the gold price all

59
00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,680
in one.
So I don't know what that tells

60
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:02,000
us.
I don't know either.

61
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,480
I should probably point out to
our our our audience who might

62
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,240
be unfamiliar with your your
voice, Ben Richards is your name

63
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:12,240
of of our Seneca two years into
running the fund there like

64
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:13,960
really, really impressive
results in that in that two

65
00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:15,520
years.
So congratulations to you mate.

66
00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,120
I know you're a bit of a market
animal.

67
00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,480
And yeah, you've you've, you're
across a lot of the, the names

68
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,160
in our sector.
We're going to talk about a lot

69
00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,920
of the gold companies, the small
cap golds, the gold miners,

70
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,040
energy stocks, mining services
stocks.

71
00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,400
And we're of course going to
cover the news of a week.

72
00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,760
This is a weekly wrap.
JD what have we got to start?

73
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,080
Right, we've got heaps.
I reckon the logical place to

74
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,320
kick off.
Like you said earlier Ben is

75
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,440
gold.
So gold smashed through US 4000

76
00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,200
bucks an ounce, hit 6000
Australian dollars an ounce,

77
00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,200
which is just something to
behold.

78
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,360
And there's so many interesting
pockets of the market.

79
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,200
Trev, I know, I think we should
start here with, with Tether.

80
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,920
I know you did a bit of reading
on, on what tethers done and

81
00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,240
everyone's focused on the, the
central bank aspect and has

82
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,480
that's undoubtedly been massive
since since Russia, Ukraine

83
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,800
really kicked off.
But the the presence of Tether

84
00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,000
and the amount of gold they're
buying, I don't think it's fully

85
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,320
appreciated.
Yeah, it's, it's all just an

86
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,440
expression of the same thing.
And, and what is that like?

87
00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:19,240
You know, it's like everyone's
kind of awake to the the, the

88
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,360
debasement that is clearly,
clearly underway.

89
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,880
And it's funny, like things are
gradual and then all at once.

90
00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,160
And I think Ted is just like an
expression of that from people

91
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,840
who, well, you know, yeah,
people who have been thinking

92
00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,680
thoughtfully about the way the
world transforms over time

93
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,680
because they're entrenched in
the monetary system.

94
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,720
And if you people kind of get
confused when you talk about

95
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,920
Tether and you talk about like,
Tether's relationship with gold

96
00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,080
because they think it's all
about Tether gold, it's not.

97
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,080
That's like a very, like, small
kind of part of the equation

98
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,280
here.
Talk about Tether the company,

99
00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:50,880
Tether the company, which is a
cash machine.

100
00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:52,440
And people hate when I say that
I don't care.

101
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,680
It's true.
There's no order.

102
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,600
I don't care.
There's attestations like so, So

103
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,960
you'll, yeah, if you just look
at like what the attestations

104
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,160
for BDO point out that Tether
has actually, you know,

105
00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,440
purchased of gold in in the last
six months.

106
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:09,720
So this is in the first half of
the year.

107
00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,000
It's 19 tons of gold.
The 15 of that came in the in

108
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,720
the second quarter of that first
half.

109
00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,840
So like dialing up massively on
the gold like purchases

110
00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:22,720
specifically.
And that's like comparable with

111
00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,800
what the, you know, World Gold
Council's numbers attribute to

112
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,120
China's own central bank in the
same period.

113
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,680
China's own central bank in that
first six months bought 20

114
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,080
tonnes of gold, or to the to the
bought 19.

115
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,640
And he's dialing up faster.
That that like needs to be

116
00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,160
underlined.
That's astounding.

117
00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,240
Massive, massive.
Now, Now China like has many

118
00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,280
different sources and they're
not all kind of captured

119
00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:45,080
probably by the World Gold
Council.

120
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,000
And maybe, yeah, maybe there's
like much more than than is

121
00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,320
attributed from their survey to
central banks because you don't

122
00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,040
always get the right number.
But but I think it's a pretty,

123
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,440
pretty important point to the
now has more gold, you know,

124
00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,480
bullion reserves than
Australia's own central bank by

125
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,920
by two tons.
And a couple couple weeks ago, I

126
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,360
think, I think like, don't
people miss this or not, but

127
00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:14,600
like Tether, the company, they
raised $20 billion at AUS $500

128
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:20,080
billion valuation, making it
like the the most valuable or

129
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,920
the second most valuable private
company in the world, which is

130
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,240
a, a staggering, staggering kind
of thing to point out.

131
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,600
And that, that $20 billion, it's
not like they needed to raise

132
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,800
that money because they, you can
see in the, in their

133
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,720
attestations, actually paid out
$7 billion of dividends in the

134
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,520
six months before that.
And they've paid consists like

135
00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,920
pretty big dividends in the
years before they didn't need

136
00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,360
the cash.
But it's in my mind, I'm pretty

137
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,680
sure it's the, the money you
raise and you place it to, to

138
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,280
instos before you go public.
This is the, you know, the, you

139
00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:55,040
get instos or whatever set at
some price and then and the IPO

140
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,040
comes at a higher price.
So people are up on, on the

141
00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,600
listing they won.
Happy days.

142
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,320
It's the raise you do before the
the public listing.

143
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,480
Yeah, this is not an
unprofitable tech company by by

144
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,080
any stretch of the imagination,
but.

145
00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,120
Cash flow is not an issue.
I think to tie tie it all

146
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,720
together, we're at a super
interesting point in time in the

147
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,400
gold market.
Even even before that, where's

148
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:15,800
that $20 billion going?
Right.

149
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,320
So they raised $20 billion.
They didn't need the money.

150
00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,680
Where is like, so they have to,
they have to deploy that $20

151
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,920
billion.
Where is it going buying gold?

152
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:25,320
It's fine.
It's clear as day they're

153
00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,760
buying.
They're buying so much gold.

154
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,680
Like gold is getting bid at
every price there is.

155
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,040
Like there's no dip that doesn't
go up because you've got like

156
00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:39,920
you've just got insane, insane
support from huge pools of

157
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,120
capital that are rotating into,
into the real assets,

158
00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,960
specifically gold, because the
like, you know, the, the, the

159
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,160
debasement of Fiat currencies
is, is it's kind of happening

160
00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:51,960
all at once.
Now people are cleared on and

161
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,120
they're positioning accordingly.
You.

162
00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:56,920
What do you think, Ben?
Yeah, well, I think you've done

163
00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:02,160
some good work, Trav, looking
into Tether and yeah, obviously

164
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:06,480
a massive player now.
Love Mohidem, but I think it's

165
00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,520
interesting that they're
pivoting to gold physical assets

166
00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,800
like royalties is another one
they're kind of chipping away

167
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,800
out through through elemental.
So yeah, I don't know what that

168
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:22,720
says for kind of the prospects
of of crypto as a store of value

169
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,840
or if it's or if it's more just
a a bullish thing for gold.

170
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,400
But yeah, this price
indiscriminate buyers, like I

171
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,280
was talking to a broker this
morning who was saying I was

172
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,480
saying all gold looks, you know,
pretty hot here at US 4000.

173
00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,799
And they were saying I just
don't see what changes though in

174
00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:41,840
terms of, yeah, this price
indiscriminate central bank

175
00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:42,960
buying.
Like what's going to be the

176
00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,040
catalyst to actually to actually
stop that?

177
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,040
So yeah, it's an interesting,
interesting juncture, really.

178
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,480
So, so how do you think about
putting money into the the gold

179
00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,760
names out there?
And we'll rattle through a bunch

180
00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,240
of the the ones that pre
reported on, on the quarterly

181
00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,160
announcements, but are you more
inclined to to take chips off

182
00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,200
the table at the moment?
Well, I think it's just about

183
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,240
how you play it.
So there's the producers and the

184
00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,200
unhedged producers, which have
kind of been the first to run.

185
00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:15,320
And you know, we we're on
Genesis and one or two others,

186
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,640
but that's kind of the the
poster child, I suppose.

187
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,360
And then I think now we're
starting to see money flow down

188
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,040
into the developers that haven't
really moved as much and maybe

189
00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,640
the explorers.
But yeah, there's probably

190
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,840
multiple ways to skin the cat.
Like we quite like some of the

191
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,480
services names and the trickle
down beneficiaries of a higher

192
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,840
gold price that aren't just
necessarily buying your favorite

193
00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,800
unhedged miner, which already
trades at a, you know, premium

194
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,880
valuation.
Well, why don't we start running

195
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:41,960
through some of these names,
Trev?

196
00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,720
Kick us off with with Capricorn
mate.

197
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,480
Mixed mixed week for Capricorn
not not because of what they

198
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,800
reported Like, you know, it was
a record record for oz record

199
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,000
throughput for fresh material,
color, winter expansion

200
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,200
construction fully ramped up now
and yeah, like they you know,

201
00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,920
reserves are now 4 million oz.
I saw so, so why the mix week on

202
00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,640
the on the share price?
Well, it came as a result of the

203
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,200
that the bump for war of our
shareholders, which we'll get to

204
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,600
we'll talk, talk a bit about bit
more about that.

205
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,480
But what was in effect like a
$20 million bump.

206
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:17,400
The immediate reaction was a
$225 million fall in Capricorn's

207
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,440
market cap, which always, always
makes sense, right?

208
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,200
But you know, it's a relative
ARB that kind of happens in

209
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,600
short term gyrations.
Anyway, they recovered all gains

210
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,320
and and Capricorn's now $14.00
stock for the first time.

211
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,200
As you can see on our focus
chart mate, right behind you,

212
00:10:29,560 --> 00:10:30,960
everybody's focused by market
tech mate.

213
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,360
I've been loving it, loving
using the ability to do screens,

214
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,080
loving the heat maps, loving
just feeling like a pro while

215
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,520
observing the market, reading
the market, making trades.

216
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,920
It is an institutional platform.
Retail price link is in the show

217
00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,440
notes if you if you want. 10 day
free trial by the way mate.

218
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:48,880
Couldn't have said it better
myself.

219
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,360
Institutional grade product at a
retail price.

220
00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:54,360
Check out Focus, the platform by
market tech today.

221
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,520
It's.
Even like money and money is on

222
00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:57,280
them.
How cool is that?

223
00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:01,120
14 bucks.
Yeah, 1414 dollars stock.

224
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,640
It's pretty, pretty remarkable.
Is it 1?

225
00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,880
Is it a name you've owned in the
past, Ben?

226
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,800
Not it's, it's always had that
kind of management premium.

227
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,800
Everyone knows that they're good
operators.

228
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,640
They've had, you know, Carla
Windows going well, they've

229
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,360
obviously got Mount Gibson
growth project kind of coming

230
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:19,840
online.
So it's easy to kind of

231
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:25,000
extrapolate the the current
production forwards at a, you

232
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,520
know, reasonable level of
confidence.

233
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,360
So you can kind of understand
why it trades there.

234
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,440
I would say it's probably one of
the two or three names that you

235
00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,760
do get the the generalist fund
managers piling into that can do

236
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,920
gold.
But yeah, here on a 6 billion

237
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:45,680
market cap, it's kind of, I
mean, what what more can can go

238
00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:49,240
right for for Capricorn is kind
of my argument.

239
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,400
Or even if, even if they
continue to do well and gold

240
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,960
continues to do well, is it the
best way to express that view in

241
00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,520
the current market so we don't
own it?

242
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,600
I thought the same at 5 bucks
but yeah yeah.

243
00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:03,920
But I I totally see your point
then.

244
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,600
Speaking of another another one
that like has always just been

245
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,920
too expensive for me to ever
think there's an opportunity.

246
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,880
And then it just continues to
defy gravity Emerald.

247
00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:14,880
But in a week where God went
bananas, Emerald Emerald were

248
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,840
pretty flat.
Another kind of disappointing

249
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,320
production number.
So Emerald Emerald has, yeah,

250
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,560
maybe maybe had some
disappointment in relation to

251
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:24,200
production.
They've talked about this for,

252
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,600
for a, you know, period of like
10, I want to say like 9-10

253
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,640
months now.
I, I think, I think this quarter

254
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,320
will be the last of the very
disappointing quarters.

255
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,440
But the, the rest of the pit,
what's to come isn't going to be

256
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,320
as strong as what's been mined
before.

257
00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,640
And because Emerald's one of
those companies that they never

258
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,280
provide like a three-year
guidance, it's like it's very

259
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,320
short dated guidance.
So whether or not like the

260
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,600
market's expectations of what's
to come out of ochre, the right

261
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,440
expectations or or not yet, like
all of that sort of play out.

262
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,160
So they've been been thrown
around, you know, you know, in a

263
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,000
in a week where gold is
absolutely sought, everyone's

264
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,720
pretty flat.
Hopefully the yeah, the worst of

265
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,960
the woes at Occovia for a brief
period of time are over.

266
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,280
But but you know the the best
part of the pit's always the

267
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,320
beginning.
Yeah.

268
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,840
Well, three production
downgrades in a row, I think in

269
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,880
the last three quarters, they
reckon they're going to get into

270
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,840
that ore in December.
But it's always, you know,

271
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,520
downgrades never come in in
once.

272
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,520
But three, I think it's just
under a 3 billion market cap.

273
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:23,560
It's been a bit left behind as
you said.

274
00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:25,960
So it's kind of to the point
where it's maybe interesting,

275
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,960
but it's quite interesting to
stack it up versus Capricorn.

276
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,240
I think like you've got a
currently about 100 oz, 100,000

277
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:37,080
oz per annum going to about 303
fifty if you include the

278
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,200
Cambodian growth project memos
and Dingo range and WA.

279
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,280
So you can kind of see like this
is probably the first time that

280
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,960
we've looked at Emerald in in
recent times and thought it's

281
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,160
potentially value.
But you're also like, it's

282
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:52,800
Cambodia.
It's what's the jurisdiction

283
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,160
discount relative to say a
Capricorn?

284
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,440
And now you've got potential
production issues.

285
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,720
So maybe cheap for a reason.
Don't own it, but it's

286
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,400
definitely on the watch list.
They, they, they've also got

287
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,280
that it's like a 20% stake in
Golden Horse.

288
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,520
Like I want yeah.
And, and I mean, like Emerald's

289
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,600
an interesting miner in that
they, they can take a view on a

290
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,640
like a, a smaller resource than
most miners will and actually

291
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,040
build a plant and develop it.
Like how many miners are willing

292
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,600
to build something on a, you
know, 500,000 oz reserve?

293
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,360
And but, but like, that's, you
know, emerald will.

294
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,040
So yeah, I don't know if I don't
know if Golden Horse is like a

295
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,200
more curious way to play play,
you know, Emerald's growth

296
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,240
story.
Yeah, potentially.

297
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,320
It's just kind of one of those
ones in the bucket of WA

298
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,480
developers.
Explorers probably can't earn

299
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,520
them all, but yeah, it looks,
looks sort of interesting.

300
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,920
Well, we'll go on to another one
now, which is a pretty hotly

301
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,720
controversial 1.
And I know we we had a bit of a

302
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,560
chinwag about it recently, Ben,
but Bellevue Gold.

303
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,240
So I'll run through the the
highlights from the quarter.

304
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,040
They announced free cash flow
before hedge book deliveries,

305
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,240
which kind of rings out as a bit
of a bullshit number, but you

306
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,560
need to get into the details a
bit.

307
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,880
That number was 33 million, but
they delivered 9 1/2 thousand oz

308
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,320
into hedges that were actually
meant to come over the following

309
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,320
couple quarters.
So the the gist of what they're

310
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,280
doing is just trying to smooth
out the ups and downs that we're

311
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,240
going to see over the coming
quarters having had that capital

312
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,680
raise and pushing out of that.
The hedge book throughout 2025

313
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,800
already on the physical side of
things that produced 30,000 oz

314
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,520
and there was some records in
their record production

315
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:35,200
processed volume 300,000 tons at
3.2g per ton, 3.2g per ton

316
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,040
sounds a lot lower than the the
numbers we had years ago

317
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,320
expected from Bellevue.
But you know, things evened out

318
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,360
in the wash here because the
tons were a bit higher than than

319
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,960
anticipated.
But ultimately 30,000 oz coming

320
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:53,640
out and guidance is about
140,000 oz for the year.

321
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,160
We're going to expect kind of
stronger numbers going over the

322
00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,160
next quarters.
When you, when you sort of take

323
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,480
this all into account, Ben, are
you, are you disappointed?

324
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,160
Are you happy with how things
have progressed?

325
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,600
I mean, they've had a bit of a
run lately, you know, and they,

326
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,000
they hadn't done so they hadn't
followed the rest of the Goldies

327
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,360
for quite a while there.
Yeah, I think you can probably

328
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,960
bucket the Goldies into ones
that have just been following

329
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,000
the spot price and ones that
haven't.

330
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,840
And for the ones that haven't
that have just been kind of

331
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,120
trading sideways, Bellevue's one
pretty interesting one.

332
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,760
We own a small position in our
small caps fund at Seneca.

333
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,040
It's probably just a production
story.

334
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,240
So I think, yes, they're
probably not making that much

335
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,760
money if you strip away all the
head, if you include all the

336
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,800
hedges.
But on a look through basis, I

337
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:43,760
just think if you've got a high
grade asset in WA with good

338
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,840
scale potential, yes, you
mentioned 140, but probably you

339
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,800
can squeeze a bit bit more
production out of this asset in

340
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,040
time.
I think they're kind of still

341
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:57,080
looking at that one 5200
thousand ounce per annum range.

342
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,720
So yeah, just think the
strategic value can't really be

343
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,079
ignored.
It's interesting that nothing's

344
00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:06,200
happened yet and the stock price
has kind of run.

345
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,839
So I don't know if that changes
the dynamics per SE.

346
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:13,440
But yeah, still think just the
strategic value that you could

347
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,400
get an offshore acquirer or a
local having a good look at it.

348
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,480
So yeah, don't mind it for a
small position there.

349
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:23,920
Yeah, it's potentially telling.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

350
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,760
I mean, they, they were pretty
public about a public process.

351
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,360
So, but, but you know, like
things, things are dynamic,

352
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:32,080
things change, gold price
changes and when you

353
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,560
underperform it everyone else on
a relative basis, then you kind

354
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,720
of are more, more attractive on
a relative basis.

355
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,560
But then at the same time, like
it's all about, it's all about

356
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,680
volume for, for Bellevue because
the hedge books, the overhang, I

357
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,520
think I've done like a really
clever thing in, in, in pre

358
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,680
delivering like in, in this
quarter.

359
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,880
You need to address that hedge
book with maximum volume at this

360
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:56,440
point in time as, as is
possible.

361
00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,280
And yeah, like hopefully things
keep keep joining the right

362
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:01,840
direction.
Yeah, totally.

363
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,240
People hate those, those shocks
to the to the downside to the

364
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,240
upside there, right.
But to, to, to do the best of

365
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,360
their job and and smooth that
out is, is a good thing.

366
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:13,080
I think if we go to another one
that's had a couple

367
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,360
disappointing quarters of light
or a band, and I know again,

368
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:19,320
Ben, you've you've held this one
in the past.

369
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,600
Now the numbers look way better
when you compare them to the

370
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,360
previous quarter because the
previous quarter was a bit of a

371
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:27,080
stinker and it was below
expectations.

372
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,920
This one still came in a touch
below expectations at, you know,

373
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,400
call it 31,000 oz produced, but
free cash was 38 million.

374
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,320
So they're in a healthy
position.

375
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,280
And that the part that stuck out
to me.

376
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:41,920
Curious to hear what you think
of this, Ben.

377
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,600
They paid 7,000,000 bucks in put
option premiums.

378
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,520
So they've locked in the option
to sell, call it 33,000 ounces

379
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,680
in the back half of next year at
5000 Aussie.

380
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,600
Now that that's an interesting
type of risk management.

381
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,400
That's not the the classical
hedge book way that has been the

382
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,840
traditional way in which goldies
have have played this.

383
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,480
But when you come at it from a a
generalist perspective, looking

384
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,840
at gold names, is that something
you're you're a fan of or not so

385
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,320
much?
It's a bit of a curious one.

386
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,080
I mean, the exact hedging
strategy is probably your boys

387
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,520
department in the sense of it's
one for the bankers to to get

388
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,040
the best bang for bark and maybe
if they think the the put

389
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,760
options are like, yeah, hedging
the downside tail risk.

390
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,200
And then other than that you
leave it unhedged.

391
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:30,640
Like I think it probably makes
sense.

392
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,640
Would I be doing it?
Probably not in this

393
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,440
environment, but you know,
that's always famous last words

394
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,840
in a sense.
So yeah, I think are a band.

395
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,640
It's it was a touch below, but
the trajectory is still pretty

396
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,920
attractive.
You're talking yeah, 100 and

397
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:54,000
4155 guided for FY20 6.
We've actually never owned this

398
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,240
one.
Kind of on its first run up,

399
00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:00,360
everyone kind of banged on about
the, you know, how good

400
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:04,000
management is and how it was,
you know, a simple production

401
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,000
growth story, all those things
that are kind of well known in

402
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,880
the market now.
It's.

403
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:13,760
Kind of one that was always
comped to like Pantoro both on

404
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:19,440
that 100,000 oz with growth
potential, largely unhedged way

405
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,520
to play gold except for when
yeah, our band pulled back a

406
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:27,600
fair bit and it basically traded
down to kind of a more peer

407
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,880
average value valuation.
And that's kind of when we took

408
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,960
a look at it when it was
probably 70 or $0.80.

409
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,480
We met with with Luke Cray and I
kind of can see why everyone

410
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,320
backs him in so hard.
Pretty impressive operator.

411
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,200
And he just pretty clearly
stepped through like what

412
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,520
they're what they're doing to
deliver that growth with

413
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:48,920
reasonable confidence, I
suppose.

414
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,760
And yeah, I think they've got a
bit of optionality there at the

415
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,200
2 underground mines.
So yeah, yeah, continue to like

416
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,960
that one.
Yeah, Yeah.

417
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,600
I think that's sort of well said
optionality and expectations as

418
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:01,800
well.
I mean they checked in the line

419
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,040
that they are forecasting to
improve quarter on quarter

420
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,600
throughout the the rest of this
financial year.

421
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,240
So I think they're going to kind
of be held to that.

422
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,440
Obviously 4 * 30,000 oz doesn't
get you to your 150 number.

423
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,440
So need a bit of an uplift in
the in the back after this

424
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,800
financial year.
Interesting You comp them to, to

425
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,880
Pantori and I think like 1
observation I've had in like the

426
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,560
yeah, the gold, the gold bull
market today is like, you know,

427
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,040
yesterday's underperformers,
today's outperformers and and

428
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,920
vice versa.
You know, like the, when our

429
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,520
band was outperforming, Pantori
was underperforming or when our

430
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,920
band underperforms, Pantori
outperforms similar with like

431
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,320
yeah, like a vault genesis or
whatever comp.

432
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,920
Like even if like the recent,
recent like larger producers or

433
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,280
mid tier producers that have
outperformed to be like a vault,

434
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,480
a vault in a westcoat.
And they were underperforming

435
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,520
pretty substantially in the
preceding kind of 12 months.

436
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,240
And yeah, like this mean
diversions of thing as gold

437
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,120
price goes up, the higher cost
producers also experience more

438
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:03,160
talk in that environment.
And and it's not a bad strategy

439
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,400
to kind of try and screen for
the the Goldies that maybe

440
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,040
haven't had the greatest
performance of like sometimes

441
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,800
just in this kind of market.
Yeah, I think vault was a

442
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,960
classic example where you know
it was the cash vault and no one

443
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:19,320
never going to pay the cash out.
I can't believe I've never heard

444
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:20,040
that.
That's great.

445
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,720
I mean, for, for all the
financial analysis and all we

446
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,080
end up doing is just screening
through these names and oh, this

447
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,960
one hasn't run yet.
It's got to be next to go like

448
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,160
it's a bit.
Simplistic.

449
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,840
It's funny like it is kind of
you can be a bit simple and

450
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,720
dumb, can't you like yeah, we we
we literally ran a screen the

451
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,600
other day just on yeah like gold
juniors with greater than

452
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:46,640
600,000 oz resource and a market
cap less than 60 million bucks

453
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,400
and we're like, oh, let's just
buy three of these They look.

454
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,400
Pretty cheap.
We'll see what goes.

455
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,080
I think we got one, one more
great land.

456
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,360
Did you want to chat about great
land, Trev?

457
00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,960
I am, I actually I've observed,
I've observed your discourse.

458
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:04,120
Well, your popularity amongst
the the great land gold share

459
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:08,040
shareholders isn't isn't it
interesting?

460
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,200
I mean, they're I think they're
as far as like like retail

461
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,480
community shareholders go.
I've got a real soft spot for

462
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,120
the greater than once.
They're, they're all very like

463
00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:18,920
polite and civil and they want
to convince you of their thesis

464
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,120
as opposed to like antagonize.
Good on you, Grayland

465
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:22,480
shareholders.
I think it's like the, the

466
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,640
London kind of, well, the, the
English politeness that kind of

467
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,400
shines through.
But you've antagonized them

468
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,200
because of your bullishness that
they're going to buy and

469
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,040
cheaper.
Has anything changed?

470
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,400
Nothing's changed.
Well, actually no things have

471
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,160
changed.
Grayland has recovered, so the

472
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,120
equity value is higher and the
cash is building.

473
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,680
I think it's now 750 as of the
last quarter.

474
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,120
So if I think you know what's
changed in the last few months,

475
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:51,680
I would say it's actually more
likely that they've got more

476
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,160
firepower to do a deal.
Obviously Trav's referring to

477
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,600
Antifa minerals, Azy, which
we've we've been pretty public

478
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,160
on that we think is a is a
takeover target.

479
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,400
But yeah, more broadly, I think
it's just a a question of can

480
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,200
can you get find those answers
that actually have a meaningful

481
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,040
path to product, realistic path
to production in the next in the

482
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,000
current cycle, I suppose, which
maybe explains why some are

483
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,720
running and some haven't.
But yeah, I still think that

484
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,520
deal gets done.
It's interesting you mentioned

485
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,520
the great land shareholders
because it's just, it's just

486
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,960
always interesting to see what
criticisms you kind of get to

487
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,680
test your own thesis.
And yeah, there's been nothing

488
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,400
there that really makes us
concerned when you're when

489
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,880
you're copying things like, oh,
maybe they'll do it at some

490
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,280
point, but they definitely don't
won't do it now.

491
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,640
And just things like that from,
you know, and some, you know,

492
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,320
you get accounts coming back at
you that only have ever posted

493
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,360
about Greiteland.
And it's like, well, I'm not

494
00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:53,640
sure who who this is anonymously
on an anonymous media platform,

495
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,800
but yeah, it's just it's always
interesting to kind of get the

496
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,640
the feedback from all kinds of
people across the market.

497
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,520
Yeah.
So one of the one of the

498
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,520
interesting theories, I don't
know where we heard it or we

499
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,800
wrote about it, but is there a
potential that Greiteland very

500
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,960
well could actually do a deal
with Cyprium somewhat in the

501
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,520
neighborhood, you know, spare
milling capacity, capability to

502
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,280
do something with copper rolls.
Is that a theory you've kind of,

503
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:24,960
and also by the way, like much
faster permitting ability versus

504
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,840
Antipa where your timeline's a
bit bit longer.

505
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,080
Have you, have you really
thought through that potential

506
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,640
as an alternative?
Yeah, a bit.

507
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,880
I mean, there's not too many
other projects around there,

508
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,040
like I'd say Anteaper and
Ciprianum.

509
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,680
And then there's probably only
really earlier stage ground of

510
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,720
of any meaningful scale.
I think with Ciprian, it's

511
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,040
probably a case of they've got
their own plans.

512
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,840
They've pretty I doubt they'd be
too open to maybe I'm wrong, but

513
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,080
I think they, you know, they
just raised a big chunk of

514
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,160
equity and kind of seem to be
trying to do it themselves.

515
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,640
And it's probably more the
copper angle.

516
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,920
So you can never rule anything
out.

517
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,560
But I think the key with an
tapir is it's it's actually

518
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:11,560
closer than, you know, haver on
distance wise, I believe, and

519
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,400
it's gold dominant.
It's kind of the same, you know,

520
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,240
same as they've already got, but
just kind of extends, I suppose,

521
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,040
the the scale and and confident
mine life that they can put

522
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,040
together the market.
And, you know, they're trading

523
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,040
on probably a discount, many
would say to to the ASX peers, I

524
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,200
would argue because of that kind
of mine life and and development

525
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,560
uncertainty.
So yeah, I think the other thing

526
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,320
with Antapr is it's actually
covered under the the existing

527
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,640
Telfer radius native title I
believe.

528
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,560
So potentially that could
accelerate permitting as well if

529
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,720
if there was to be a deal done.
So yeah, I mean it it's to us,

530
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,840
it's probably the the cleanest
or the clearest gold takeover.

531
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,080
Like there's a lot of, you know,
your Astros have always come up

532
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,880
in kind of takeover discussions
of, you know, decent scale

533
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,160
resource in a region where
there's a lot of million

534
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,400
capacity or a lot of meals at
least I should say.

535
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,560
So there's definitely a few ways
to play that kind of M&A angle.

536
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,120
But yeah, Azy is our still our
preferred pick.

537
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,200
JD, you got a preferred pick for
gold M&A?

538
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,120
Gold M&AII do have a preferred
pick.

539
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:25,800
Sunstone, AH.
Ding, Ding, Ding.

540
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,920
Yes, Ding, Ding, Ding.
The company's been pretty,

541
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:34,400
pretty open about pursuing
various, various forms of M&A

542
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,080
slash joint venture
arrangements.

543
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,120
But we're talking Ecuador here,
copper, gold, early, early stage

544
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,960
like not, not such a demanding
market cap, you know, so that

545
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:45,960
that's my one.
Have you got one?

546
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:53,560
Yeah, Ding, Ding, Ding, Emerson.
Well, like been long since the

547
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,360
JV partner was taken out by Pan
African Gold.

548
00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:00,360
MSN was was 6 sensors.
It's now 24.

549
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:05,120
Gold's moved a lot a long way.
But but the yeah, I mean MSN put

550
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:08,880
out this MSN's like a it's got a
funky kind of JV relationship

551
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,720
with the JV partner.
It's kind of tricky to wrap your

552
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,680
head around, but effectively,
you know, there's an earning

553
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,920
relationship, there's a 6% gross
royalty on certain deposits and

554
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,840
then they can also be in some
when some things are classified

555
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,280
as a larger mine becomes a 40%
contributing interest.

556
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:30,160
Now why does all this matter?
Because early next year MSN will

557
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:36,160
receive a like a an $18 million
payment from from Pan African

558
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,960
who's the the new operator of
the mill that's in production

559
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:40,840
there.
It's everything's commissioning

560
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,040
is going really well there.
It's just much cleaner to clean

561
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,840
up that that joint venture clear
synergies.

562
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,320
The big attractive thing is the
fact that with MSN has a has his

563
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,560
white Devils project to put out
a scoping study on that you run

564
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,120
that Spot gold today and it's a
very, very attractive project at

565
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,080
Spot gold.
There's no, no, no doubt.

566
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:06,680
And it will displace yeah, feed
at the at the Nobles Mill like

567
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,440
that much earlier in the mine
plan.

568
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,880
I feel like Pan African are
going to try and deploy as much

569
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,720
of their cash that they're
making in Africa into Australia

570
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,960
as they possibly can.
And MSN is the most logical

571
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,240
thing they can do.
I like both of them.

572
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,160
I think Trav, bang on with that
thesis from from what I've seen

573
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,400
at least.
And JD, I'm, I'm not as familiar

574
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,720
with Sunstone, but I know
there's been a, a fair bit of

575
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:33,280
M&A activity in Ecuador.
I looked at Titan TTM, which is

576
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,080
also just another one of these
developers that kind of you

577
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,560
think is there an M&A angle?
But yeah, a lot of money flowing

578
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,080
around in that area, so.
I think they just.

579
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,400
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, there's there's

580
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:46,800
another one we should chat about
as well.

581
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,720
And it doesn't have the kind of
same populist zeal that I know

582
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,000
you love, Trev, but Minerals 260
was flying very much under the

583
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,280
radar from when they did the
recap took on the the bullet

584
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,040
bullying asset within the last
year or so.

585
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,280
But then they did have a kick
up.

586
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,480
And then you've you've followed
this one for some time.

587
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,720
So they went from, you know,
12:00-ish cents from memory now

588
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,720
over $0.30 all of a sudden on
the back of this gold run up and

589
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,080
everyone kind of taking
attention and perhaps now other

590
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,360
companies running the ruler over
it.

591
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,120
Is that part of the thesis here
or is it sort of just sort of

592
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,640
screening cheap on the
development basis?

593
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,960
Yeah, I'd say it's more the
latter.

594
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,600
I mean, it's yeah, as you said,
it was a, it was a really chunky

595
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,080
rise, 220 million bucks.
The stock was just trading at 12

596
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,760
to 14 cents in that range for
ages, despite it being, you

597
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,520
know, pretty, pretty good
assets, particularly in a, in a

598
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,240
gold bull market.
Yeah, of scale well over 2

599
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,680
million oz.
And that's probably, I think

600
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,280
it's almost 4 million oz on an
unconstrained basis, which, you

601
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:53,320
know, read.
Is that what you will?

602
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,520
But I think the point is that
they've identified it as an

603
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,360
asset where there's some easy
wins, like put out some drill

604
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,320
results, extend the resource
boundary, a long strike and a

605
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,560
depth.
And yeah, just super cheap.

606
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,040
So bought some of that at I
think 14 and maybe 16 cents

607
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,040
around there and it has run, I
mean to be honest, it's actually

608
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,360
run a lot harder and in a short
amount of time than we would

609
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,040
have expected.
But I think it's just kind of

610
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,760
one of those ones where, yeah, a
few people get onto it, then a

611
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,480
few more people get onto it and
all of a sudden it kind of

612
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,360
rewrites at least closer to fair
value.

613
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,240
But yeah, I think that's pretty
good project and and maybe we'll

614
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:35,280
attract M&A, but it's, it's not
a, you know, the make or break

615
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:36,360
for the thesis, I suppose.
Yeah.

616
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,400
I like it.
I like it.

617
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,200
So one, one of the things that
we were, we were chatting about

618
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,880
here, Ben, throughout this week
and over the weekend doing a bit

619
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,120
of research was the, the
commodities that haven't been so

620
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,840
hot.
Obviously the the whole basket.

621
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,320
We've spoken out there, gold is,
is on a tear.

622
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,320
And it's an interesting time to,
to look around the field because

623
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,400
commodities is all we kind of
know here and think about where,

624
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,440
where could we park some money
that will do well in, in the

625
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,440
medium to, to kind of long term.
And the energy complex is the

626
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,000
one that kind of jumps out at
you.

627
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,720
So came to talk about a couple
names throughout the, the oil

628
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,880
and coal space to start with
Karun.

629
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,480
Now I'm excited to talk about
this one with you because you

630
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,680
said you went on a site visit
there.

631
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,160
So came to hear how that how
that all went down and and what

632
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,880
you're thinking on, on the
company is after that.

633
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,240
Yeah, we did.
It was a super interesting site

634
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,040
visit.
So obviously they've got

635
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,880
offshore Brazil and then they've
got Gulf of Mexico slash America

636
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,240
more recently.
And yeah, they did an investor

637
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,240
site visit to both offshore
platforms.

638
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,320
And I'd say the main take away
from the site visit is that we

639
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,120
were the only other, the only
fund manager there, there was 1.

640
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,520
So myself and Luke, Larry that
is there was one other private

641
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,240
investors, quite a large
individual shareholder of the

642
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:05,000
company and then there was a
bunch of investment bankers as

643
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,600
well both in the US and here
that are all kind of sniffing

644
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,560
around potentially for US
listing or whatever event they

645
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:14,760
are looking for.
But.

646
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,120
That's pretty telling, isn't it?
It's telling in the sense that I

647
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:24,040
think the sector is hated.
I mean, who likes oil and gas at

648
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,840
the moment?
I mean, all I'm hearing is gold,

649
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,360
gold, gold, maybe copper, maybe
one or two other things, but I

650
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,880
think you'd be pretty hard
pressed to find a a less liked

651
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,120
sector of the market at the
moment.

652
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,800
We'll flash it up now, but
there's just like chart of the

653
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,920
the yeah, gold to oil ratio
throughout history.

654
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,840
And it's I think I saw that it's
it's pretty startling when you

655
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,120
look at it with the exception of
COVID, like we're we're in,

656
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,000
yeah, uncharted territory.
And anytime you get these, these

657
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,560
like, you know, big spikes in
this, this, this ratio, it's

658
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,440
it's not like, you know, things
just work like that forever.

659
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,400
Yeah, you have a yeah, commodity
like gold leads the way

660
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,040
commodities commodities are in
vogue and focus.

661
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,360
And yeah, oil price often comes
if people people talk about the

662
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,480
similarities between this period
in the 1970s.

663
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,280
Well, yeah, gold led the way,
and then then oil took charge.

664
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:24,600
Yeah, it's I think oil it's even
at $60.00 or so, 65 looks pretty

665
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,400
good.
And yeah, Karun, I suppose the

666
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,719
other thing to mention is that
pretty low cost producer, even

667
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,000
though it kind of gets lumped in
this bucket of probably lesser

668
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,760
quality names sometimes.
But yeah, we checked out the

669
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,600
assets and I mean, if there's
probably a bit of nuance in the

670
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,560
sense that it's hard, it's super
hard, like going 200 KS offshore

671
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,800
in a helicopter with massive
capital intensive equipment.

672
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,480
Like it's no wonder that they
have production difficulties

673
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,000
every now and again.
And if you're an analyst

674
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:56,320
modelling 95% production uptime,
like you're kidding yourself.

675
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,760
But the thing we've seen with
these capital intensive

676
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,080
businesses is they do obviously
have a lot more inherent

677
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,960
leverage to the cycle.
So when the cycle does turn, it

678
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,400
can make some good money.
Yeah.

679
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,920
And it yeah, lots of lots of
lots of lots of push around the

680
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,960
governance of this company like
18 odd months ago.

681
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,840
A lot of that's resolved now.
So you're, you're getting the

682
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,000
benefit of more thoughtful,
yeah, like engagement with

683
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,640
shareholders, more thoughtful
returns to shareholders like

684
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,160
not, not MNA for the sake of MNA
and and a register that that is

685
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,840
thinking long term about return
to to shareholders.

686
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,480
I'm pretty sure Stan is a is a
big shareholder there, joined by

687
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,480
some friends you know.
Yeah.

688
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,960
I think they've got that mix
right now in terms of capital

689
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,640
allocation.
I think that was super receptive

690
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,000
just to general discussion and
feedback from shareholders.

691
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,080
So, yeah, I think the management
team's actually really good

692
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:52,680
there.
I mean, you've got the CEO,

693
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:57,840
Julian, is actually departing.
So we'll see who they bring in

694
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,280
as the replacement top dog
there.

695
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,960
But yeah, I think all the the
pieces are in place there too to

696
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,720
get a rewrite here.
Yeah, totally.

697
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,640
And should say Ding, Ding, Ding
on that one as well.

698
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,240
Going into the coal space,
Stanmore is a really interesting

699
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,040
name.
So quick numbers for the first

700
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,760
half, six and a half million
tonnes they did at 89 US bucks

701
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,760
FoB cash costs.
So the, the balance sheet is,

702
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,520
you know, net debt, 100 million,
call it U.S. dollars now.

703
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,720
So it's looking a lot healthier
than it once was.

704
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,600
And we're, you know, we're at a
pretty low ebb in the, in the

705
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,160
coal space.
Are you starting to do a bunch

706
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,600
of work?
Have you held names, be it

707
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,720
Stanmore or similar type names
for a while now, Ben?

708
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,800
Yeah, I mean to varying degrees.
I think right now we're probably

709
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,080
a bit higher weight than we have
been in the past if it all.

710
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:58,280
So yeah, Stanmore is probably
the stand out think probably

711
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,520
Stanmore and New Hope management
are quite high quality, probably

712
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,640
best in class New Hope's
obviously got the the low cost

713
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,080
thermal.
Stanmore's got mainly the PCI

714
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,400
stuff.
So it's kind of a different

715
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,120
dynamic and out of Queensland.
So you got obviously factor in

716
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,080
the royalty rates.
But if, if they're producing

717
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,240
14,000,000 tons per annum of
coal at that quality, at that

718
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:27,240
cost of, you know, 100 bucks a
ton, maybe touch more than you

719
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:29,920
know, they're, they're making
decent margin even at current

720
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,920
prices, which I think it's
pretty clear that that's, that's

721
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,280
kind of well into the cost
curve.

722
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,760
Now you've got some of the
marginal players, Bowen coke and

723
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,440
coal couldn't get it to work.
You've had BHP cutting back

724
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,440
workers at at Soraji.
So yeah, I think that there's

725
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,680
probably on a, on a medium term
basis good upside in coal

726
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,720
prices.
And yeah, again, it just kind of

727
00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:59,280
comes back to the oil argument.
It's it's like, well, energy is

728
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,720
hated.
We saw what happened when that

729
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,400
be it a supply shock like in
2022 or even just people not

730
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,640
pricing these things as terminal
decline.

731
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,880
Like it's pretty easy to get
Stanmore looking at like a four

732
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,040
or $5 stock and that's not even
really incorporating any growth

733
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,160
projects that they could kind of
have a have a crack out of the

734
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,880
cycle turn.
So yeah, it's one we kind of

735
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,840
back management in and and just
ride it out from here.

736
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,320
I'm.
With you on this one, I think

737
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,720
even though like the the the
guys who love coal, they love

738
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,200
coal and even they're pretty
quiet like the last, you know, 6

739
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,400
odd months.
And you know, I mean Stan

740
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,480
Stanmore has had some great
green shoots in a very short

741
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,120
period of time.
But but but it's yeah, it's

742
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,880
still too quiet.
Things things look tricky to get

743
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,520
worse from a Costco perspective
like yeah, yeah.

744
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,360
Well then then you hope you kind
of touched on as well.

745
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,600
I find that super interesting,
but, but I really want to peel

746
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,640
into your, your views on the
mining services companies as a

747
00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,120
way to, to play a, a, a broader
kind of commodity boom, like

748
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,840
extra, extra activity mining
services companies.

749
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,320
There's a a plethora of
different types of companies.

750
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,120
Some are capital intensive and
can often be just pretty bad

751
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:10,800
businesses.
And some of them are not capital

752
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,280
intensive and can be magnificent
businesses.

753
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,920
What's your, what's your rate?
Having done a bunch of work in

754
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,080
this this space mate.
Yeah.

755
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,000
I think there's a couple of
names that kind of stand out to

756
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,720
us from a quality perspective
and an earnings perspective.

757
00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:28,360
Whereas some of them, as you
said, like it's just hard to get

758
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,640
comfortable with some of these
contractors, especially after

759
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,400
they've run a fair bit recently
that have the construction risk.

760
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:41,960
Like I remember we saw NRW
earlier in the year a conference

761
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,800
and they were kind of had a
temporary pullback based off

762
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:51,200
that that steel recover ability
of potential might lose money on

763
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,480
that contract.
And yeah, that was probably the

764
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,720
time to buy it.
But instead we actually bought

765
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,360
Amoco AHL.
We also met with them around the

766
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,960
same time.
And this to us was like it was

767
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,640
really important to meet with
management because we needed

768
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,440
confidence that the sins of the
past, like going into

769
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,760
underground mining services and
a bit of misallocation of

770
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,000
capital was was in the past.
But yeah, we met with them and

771
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,000
got a lot of confidence that
they were just like sticking to

772
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,440
their knitting.
Yeah, a few easy wins within the

773
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,400
business to kind of get
utilization of their rental

774
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:26,800
equipment.
So it's rental equipment for

775
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,680
mining in Australia.
So pretty broad exposure across

776
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,600
gold, coal, iron ore, other
other minerals.

777
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,960
So, yeah, it was, it was more of
a case of are they on the right

778
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,520
track EVs, what's the right
price for it?

779
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,280
And we thought, you know, 70 in
the $0.70 range was not the

780
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,160
right price when NTA was over
$1.20.

781
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,080
It's now $1.36 trailing NTA.
And the interesting thing here

782
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,560
is, yeah, you've had rumours of
takeover in the press.

783
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,120
I mean, whether that happens,
it's hard to say.

784
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,160
It's hard to see who the obvious
acquirer would be.

785
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,200
But you'd think any, any
takeover bid would have to start

786
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,040
with start at NTA and that's
probably going to improve to

787
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,080
$1.40 like high dollar 40s on
our numbers.

788
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,520
And you potentially got capital
returns coming in the next 12

789
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,080
months given they're generating
over 100 mil free cash flow.

790
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:24,320
So still think it's bit of a,
it's a, it's a good risk reward

791
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:25,520
I'll say from here still I
think.

792
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,200
The mining services names are
super, super interesting.

793
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,040
And I think they're, they're a
kind of way, you know, broadly

794
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,360
mining services, I'm talking
including mining tech in here in

795
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,720
here as well.
But they're, they're that kind

796
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:39,600
of way of playing the, the
resource cycle.

797
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,560
Once people start looking to see
what, what goes next.

798
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,840
In a sense, you've spoken about
Index and XRF as well.

799
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,120
Why don't, why don't we kind of
start with Index for a moment?

800
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,160
Because they are, you know, at
the grassroots, at the

801
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,560
exploration stage, They, they
can really do well.

802
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,880
And when you start to see all
these capital raises happening

803
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:02,760
in the gold space and other
commodities, you mentioned

804
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,840
copper as well there before you
start to think, hey, maybe a

805
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,080
company like Index could get a
bit of a tailwind.

806
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,920
And they've just been an, an
interesting kind of indicator

807
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,040
of, of exploration action.
Is is that part of the thesis in

808
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,480
in playing this one?
It is.

809
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,120
I mean, if you're a gold miner
making record cash flow, suppose

810
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,720
where's that cash flow going?
Dividends.

811
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:26,520
I don't think so.
I.

812
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:29,240
Don't I?
Don't think so.

813
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:32,240
Sandvik ground support.
Yeah, of course, of course

814
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:34,160
that's the that's the rational
capital allocation.

815
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,480
But you.
Mate, you the the ground needs

816
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,160
to stay up, people need to stay
safe.

817
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,800
You need to invest in Sandvik
ground support to get more gold

818
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,520
out of the ground.
Like you can't, you can't have

819
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:43,640
expansion without it.
In fact.

820
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,720
In fact mate, I know a guy who
you should just get in touch

821
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:48,520
with.
Sandy Ground support.

822
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:49,960
Derek Kurd, is that Derek?
Kurd, Derek.

823
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,000
Kurd.
You know Derek.

824
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,200
I'll introduce you to Derek
after.

825
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,120
This time of season I've heard
but yeah, wouldn't mind that

826
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:54,920
it's.
Stellar guy.

827
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,120
I'll, I'll, I'll hit you up.
I'll hook you up with Derek.

828
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:58,840
If anyone else wants to be
hooked up with Derek, just get

829
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,280
in touch with JD and I.
We'll, we'll hook you up.

830
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,080
We'll hook you up with.
Go Sandy ground support.

831
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:07,480
Sorry, back to index mate.
I think anyway, I think the

832
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:08,920
dollars are going back into the
ground.

833
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:14,760
Index is kind of the market
leader in drilling technology

834
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,640
and yeah, they've kind of
consolidated that position over

835
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,880
the last couple of years by
acquiring the the number two

836
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,960
player.
And yeah, I think they've just

837
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:23,760
got got really good leverage
too.

838
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,160
I mean not only gold, but kind
of across all medals, to be

839
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,000
honest.
I think we've owned this for a

840
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,680
while now and probably been a
bit early on it like it's done

841
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,600
well, but I thought you'd see a
bit more like I think they

842
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,120
disappointed at the full year
result, sold off a little bit,

843
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,720
bought a few more shares.
But yeah, it's kind of

844
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:43,880
surprising that it hasn't fully
flowed through yet.

845
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,720
But I think there's probably
just a a couple of years of lag

846
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:52,120
before you really start to get
these drill programs kind of

847
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,560
chugging, especially at the
bigger company level, which is

848
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,960
predominantly where they are.
But yeah, I think, you know,

849
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,920
I've been seeing numbers on
these, some of these gold

850
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:02,520
developers that they're finding
new gold.

851
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,880
I'm always a bit SUS on these
metrics but they're finding new

852
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,920
gold at a discovery cost of you
know, 10, 2015 $20.00 an ounce.

853
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,840
But the point is it cost us zero
to lower the cut off grade.

854
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,480
Exactly.
But I think if you're having to

855
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,440
pay, you know, well over 100
bucks an ounce to acquire any

856
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,280
development project, well
potentially you could just get

857
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,440
that those dollars put into the
ground and any index is a good

858
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,440
way to play it.
Yeah, it's a super interesting

859
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,560
way way to play it.
If if we touch on one more in

860
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,040
that related kind of space.
This one's really interesting.

861
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,760
Before we jump into grade
control, EUR Hartley's now the,

862
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,160
the, the playing of the, the
broker or the, the gatekeeper,

863
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,840
the capital in the mining space
has always kind of fascinated

864
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,560
me.
But you know, talking about

865
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,760
Sprott overseas or any of the
other brokers here.

866
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,480
And similar to Amico, we've
started to see M&A rumors in

867
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,160
this space.
So BMO rumored to be looking

868
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,800
around here in, in Perth looking
at the, the other names.

869
00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:08,640
And then we also saw the, the
financial numbers come out of,

870
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,480
of Argonaut.
And you know, brokers love to

871
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,760
know how much the other shop is
making, you know, who's doing

872
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,200
well on, on the street and
they're all doing pretty well at

873
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,840
this moment in time.
But how much of you thinking

874
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,440
here is just an alternative way
to to play the the capital cycle

875
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,200
versus a company that might be
building out its private wealth

876
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,560
platform etcetera?
It's a bit of both really.

877
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,800
I mean, we initially invested
with the predicated on the fact

878
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,040
that you're, you had a big chunk
of cash, you had this wealth

879
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,600
management business where, you
know, having worked in this

880
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,920
industry, it's, it's clear that
that's probably more valuable or

881
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,560
at least acquirers are willing
to pay a higher multiple for

882
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,480
that revenue.
And then you've got this

883
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:55,120
cyclical kind of capital markets
exposed revenue, which maybe was

884
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,240
low in the cycle a couple of
years ago, a year or two ago,

885
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,360
but you're essentially getting
that for free.

886
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,640
And I mean, we just thought that
was kind of ludicrous given

887
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,360
that, yeah, gold price was
actually starting to creep up at

888
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,840
that point.
And yours, Hartley's, I think

889
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:15,680
well known for their their gold
analysts and the deals that come

890
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,000
with that.
So, yeah, that was the initial

891
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,440
thesis.
I mean, now it's, it's run a

892
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,400
little bit, it's returned a bit
of capital.

893
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:27,160
Still think it looks very cheap.
And now it's probably an earning

894
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,640
story where, yeah, Argonaut's
printing money, you've got

895
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:35,760
Canaccord over there as well.
And yeah, EUR Hartley's is the

896
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,520
other kind of key player we see.
And, and yeah, just kind of

897
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,680
having dealt with their people
think that they're pretty good

898
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,600
quality.
It's the only one that's listed

899
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,880
on the ASX of those as well.
So potentially gets a bit of

900
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,520
strategic interest.
But otherwise given the

901
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,560
alignment with with staff that
you probably just get good

902
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,520
dividends and maybe more capital
returns in the future.

903
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,880
Super interesting one.
They're they're I think they all

904
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,560
I think they all get gobbled up
in time and become part of the

905
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,200
yeah, the Canadian extension.
Like, like how successful was

906
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,160
that for for Canaccord buying
Pattersons I think was

907
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,000
tremendously successful.
I think it's like, yeah, kind of

908
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,520
like a no a no no brainer way to
to get real synergies.

909
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,400
And you can point to point to
that one pretty clearly.

910
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,800
But the, but yeah, the, the,
it's, it's not like a hard thing

911
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,640
to, to see from your
perspective.

912
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,000
You're just getting like
notifications every day of a new

913
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,320
capital raise from these
brokers.

914
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,480
And like 6% of every one of
these is going to these guys.

915
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,640
Like of course the business is
going up.

916
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,480
It's amazing.
Indulge us, Ben, we're going to

917
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,320
very quickly talk about some of
the, some of the news that came

918
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,280
from the week from maybe some of
the bigger end of town.

919
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,440
I know you're a small cap's fun.
So it's all right if you, you

920
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,040
don't have too much to say on
these things because I mean, I,

921
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,080
I don't blame you for not paying
attention to Rio Tinto.

922
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,640
I'll have a look at the opinion
on something that.

923
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,640
That's important.
One thing we saw this week in

924
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,880
guide control Rio and it's Robe
River JV partners, they approved

925
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:05,640
the US $733 million sustaining
project at West Angeles to keep

926
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,520
that hub at about 35,000,000
tonnes per annum.

927
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,520
So look, Rio's cashier is US
389,000,000.

928
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:16,120
The plan sustains Pilbara system
capacity around 130 million

929
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,120
tonnes per annum.
There's plenty of construction

930
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,520
jobs of course, and they also
target autonomous holy from

931
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,720
2027.
I think the the couple of

932
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:27,000
interesting things, one is that
if they're going to deploy all

933
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,840
this capital into the the
Pilbara iron ore stuff, I'm for

934
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,360
it.
I think that's an that's an A in

935
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,440
my books just because I think
that's the highest returning

936
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:39,760
return on invested capital that
Rio, BHP, Fortescue can all do.

937
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,320
Rather than like there was, I
think Travia share that there

938
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,960
was a slide in BHP's investor
deck where they had return on

939
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,640
capital across iron ore, which
was like 40%, copper, which was

940
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,160
in the 30% and then coal was
basically 0%.

941
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,120
So probably I think they should
be allocating more to iron ore

942
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:00,480
and the coal piece is more of a
step.

943
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,000
That's how you play Stanmore,
who's buying off these guys.

944
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,360
But yeah, I can't quite like it
in in general.

945
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:12,080
I think they've got a lot of
good projects there and yeah,

946
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,280
don't mind that area of the
world.

947
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:18,240
Yeah, it's going to be
fascinating and like call it 15

948
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:22,440
years time when we look back at
the deal that that was was done

949
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,520
on on Roads Ridge with the with
the Bennetts and and the

950
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,360
Japanese.
And we can ask ourselves the

951
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,640
question, could Rio have done
that deal in a bigger way

952
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,040
themselves?
And should they not have bought

953
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,360
arcadium and instead go on ham
at Rhodes Ridge?

954
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,000
It's the last of the best iron
ore that we have.

955
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,160
Big question, big question.
Yeah, I think that's that is

956
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,680
absolutely one that's going to
take a bit of hindsight to to

957
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,920
look back to and we we won't be
able to grade now.

958
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,720
But the the detail in in what
you said there that I want to

959
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:57,240
under score is the the Japan
Australia relationship.

960
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,560
We saw that with with this deal
as well.

961
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,440
Obviously Robe River is an
exemplary sort of example of of

962
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,720
that relationship and and long
may that kind of continue.

963
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,520
Another one for the majors was
Fortescue's refi.

964
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,280
So they came out with an
announcement that they're going

965
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:15,960
to buy back.
I think it was sort of 600 odd

966
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,400
million of their notes.
We spoke a little while ago

967
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,280
about what they have done in in
China in terms of financing

968
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,880
themselves and this broader
trend of companies refinancing

969
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,080
themselves is a big one that we
we should talk more about.

970
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,480
We touched on it with, with Min
Res, but you know that that cost

971
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,800
of capital debate is, is huge
and the, the rates these guys

972
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,720
are going to pay.
It's not quite as cheap as

973
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,960
perhaps the, the Japanese in, in
the Rio E example there, but

974
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,560
it's coming down and it's coming
down for a couple reasons.

975
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,640
Obviously you've got headline
rates falling in, in the US and

976
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,760
around the world and you've got
spreads tightening massively.

977
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:00,120
So over the, over the past three
years, the, the, the spread as

978
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,600
in the difference that these
riskier companies, the higher

979
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,560
yielding companies have to play
above the, the safer, the

980
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,960
government debt is shrinking.
And for a min res to come out

981
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:16,160
with a sort of 7% number and for
these, these miners to be paying

982
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,840
under 4% is magnificent.
So I think we're going to see a

983
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,600
lot of it.
It's undoubtedly an A for the

984
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,120
companies and they should just
jump at that opportunity.

985
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,640
And, and the flip side of that
is obviously if you, if you drop

986
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,440
the, the cost of capital, the
valuations for all these

987
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,960
companies go up, which is almost
a scary thought in the face of

988
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:35,720
the market where we're seeing
right now.

989
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,440
But that's, that's something
we're kind of contending with it

990
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,760
at a global level.
Ben, you, you look at things

991
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,880
from a generalist perspective.
I'm not sure if you've got, I'm

992
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,520
curious to hear if you do have
big thoughts on on what these

993
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,440
rates are going to do to to
perhaps supercharge an already

994
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,400
kind of frothy market.
Yeah, not, not really, but I

995
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,320
mean it is interesting as you
say, like do you start to run a

996
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,520
lot lower cost of capital
through your models and that's

997
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:06,320
probably we saw that 2020-2021
when rates were low near 0 and

998
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,000
then you can just kind of
continually bump up your your

999
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,040
price targets if you're an
analyst trying to try and chase

1000
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,240
the share price.
I'm waiting for this these these

1001
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:16,680
stories to come out in the coal
space.

1002
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,360
Like if you just think where's,
where are the stocks mispriced

1003
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,080
from a cost of capital
perspective?

1004
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,840
Like, yeah, like everyone has
the cost of equity through the

1005
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,040
roof for coal stocks.
Like things are changing on that

1006
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,440
front.
And then if you, if your

1007
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,200
composition of your whack is, is
weighted heavily towards debt

1008
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:36,680
and all of a sudden you replace
your, your, your, your 10%

1009
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,520
coupon debt with a, with a, with
a 6%, like, yeah, that makes a

1010
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,240
pretty meaningful impact to your
whack.

1011
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,760
And and maybe there's a lot of
mispriced equities out there as

1012
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:52,200
a result of that then derivative
of the iron ore world that

1013
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,080
you're a bit of a value hunter.
Talk to me about Red Hill

1014
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,080
Minerals.
Yeah, I think this is the best

1015
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:04,520
kept secret on the ASX, This
one, they've got a .75% royalty

1016
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:08,360
over Min Res's Onslow Iron
project, which has obviously

1017
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,520
been super well covered by you
guys and I'm sure everyone's

1018
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:16,000
familiar with.
But the bottom line is that the

1019
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:21,480
royalty holder isn't exposed to
the same set of risks that min

1020
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,040
res is as the operator.
And you know, whether you like

1021
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,880
it or not, I think they've shown
that they can get to this

1022
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:33,680
35,000,000 tons per annum run
rate, which all that expansion

1023
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:35,360
comes at no cost to the royalty
holder.

1024
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:40,960
You run 35,000,000 tons per
annum through your model, $100

1025
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,120
iron or less, a bit of a great
discount.

1026
00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:47,160
You're probably spitting out 30,
five, $40 million per annum of

1027
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,960
royalty revenue.
Red Heel as the original, they

1028
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,320
originally found the Onslow
project as it's now known.

1029
00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:02,680
They trade on a 215 mil market
cap, 160 mil EV, which is a lot

1030
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:07,080
of numbers, but I mean it's four
times effectively EBITDA.

1031
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,280
I think you're probably going to
get more production growth there

1032
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,360
as you tack on another
transshipper.

1033
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,520
And I mean, originally when they
were Min Res was developing this

1034
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,520
project, they were always
targeting a higher production

1035
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:21,680
rate.
And I think they did that whole

1036
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:26,960
Rd. deal with Morgan Stanley,
which gave them gave Min Res the

1037
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,680
upside.
So it was always kind of a plan.

1038
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:31,280
And I think in time you do get
there.

1039
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,520
And yeah, this is just a super
interesting company.

1040
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:39,080
I mean, what's a royalty worth
in a small or mid tier company

1041
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:43,440
like this?
Certainly not, not the current

1042
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,680
valuation, I would argue.
I mean the other question marks

1043
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,160
which which you'll obviously
you'll be, I'm sure you'll be

1044
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,080
asking me is well, they're still
spending a bit on exploration

1045
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,760
and kind of are they going to,
are you actually going to see

1046
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,320
that cash?
Well, which is obviously, yeah,

1047
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,160
the big question.
And when you got Josh Pitt kind

1048
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,520
of controlling this company
34.4% plus some of his

1049
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,720
associates, I think.
So they kind of largely control

1050
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:11,480
the register.
But I suppose where we get

1051
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:14,120
confidence is there have been a
big dividend player in the past.

1052
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:20,160
So they paid out a lot of that,
that other 200 mil payment that

1053
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,720
they got from Min Rez as well as
kind of ongoing dividends.

1054
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:29,000
They've committed to 50% of
Onslow profits as their dividend

1055
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,840
policy, which was a bit of a an
interesting one.

1056
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:36,240
But yeah, even on those numbers,
the stock still looks quite

1057
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:39,600
cheap.
And I think yes, we would

1058
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,200
probably like to send and spend
less on exploration and more on

1059
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,320
becoming a dedicated royalties
player because you could almost

1060
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,080
double the share price from day
one in our opinion.

1061
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,200
And they've they've maybe taken
some strides towards doing that.

1062
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,600
Like they acquired a couple of
other small royalties. 1 looked

1063
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,320
quite good one, it's just
earlier stage 1.

1064
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,440
So there's potential to kind of
go further down that route.

1065
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,400
But regardless, I think you'd
probably still get paid at the

1066
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:06,240
current share price.
I.

1067
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,800
I don't.
I actually, I went to this

1068
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,560
company's AGM last year and I
don't, I don't have any concerns

1069
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,840
about governance or, or capital
allocation.

1070
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,520
Like just you've got, you've got
long term thinking, long term

1071
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,240
alignment.
There's not excessive

1072
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:25,000
unnecessary spend.
I mean, like, yeah, people

1073
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,360
should do a bit of Googling and
figure out how successful an

1074
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,520
exploration Josh Pitt has been
throughout history.

1075
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:32,160
It's phenomenal.
Like even if they're spending

1076
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,440
money on exploration, like I
don't, I don't think that will

1077
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:39,440
be necessarily a completely
comparable thing to other

1078
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,000
companies who spend money on
expiration.

1079
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,120
Yeah, completely.
And they've kept the budget

1080
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,360
quite tight, like consistently.
Totally.

1081
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:47,880
They've watched the dollar.
You can tell that.

1082
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,120
I think it's a really
interesting company as well.

1083
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:53,360
I I don't even mind the strategy
of buying like like the deal

1084
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,920
they did to buy those sandstone
God worth it.

1085
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,720
I thought it was AI thought it
was a good deal and like I

1086
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:00,400
thought it must have been a
bilateral deal, but apparently

1087
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,520
they, they run a process and
they just they just won the

1088
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,120
process.
So anyway, maybe they'll maybe

1089
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,640
they'll actually be be a
competitive player when it comes

1090
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:13,080
to you know yeah creating
royalties themselves or or or

1091
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,800
acquiring royalties if there's
one trend I'm kind of pretty

1092
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,800
pretty, pretty confident about
in our industry over there.

1093
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:25,240
The coming, yeah, wave of
whatever's going on, royalty

1094
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,680
companies, small scale royalty
companies, like they become

1095
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:29,440
super attractive.
There'll be a consolidation

1096
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,080
there.
And yeah, like, yeah, I think

1097
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,440
they're, they're very, very,
very, very attractive ways for a

1098
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,680
lot of people to have exposure
to our industry.

1099
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:42,400
Yeah, I mean, I know you've had
Spencer call on the on the

1100
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,960
podcast before, and I think Vox
is another really interesting

1101
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,080
one.
It's not ASX listed, so, you

1102
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,400
know, no skin in the game, but I
think their strategy is super

1103
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,960
interesting, like hoovering up
these smaller royalties, which,

1104
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:59,800
you know, one in every X becomes
Onslow.

1105
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,880
And yeah, it's a huge value
uplift and no one's really

1106
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,120
looking at them.
Yeah, well, they just did this

1107
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:07,440
deal like a pretty
transformational deal for them

1108
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:12,280
buying a pretty, pretty sizeable
gold royalty book off of of the

1109
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,600
terror.
And that maybe gives them like

1110
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,080
sufficient scale to to be quite
attractive to.

1111
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,120
Yeah.
I mean, elemental is now going

1112
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:26,520
to be the a bit of a vehicle for
tether to round up a bunch of

1113
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,000
things.
I feel like Fox is a natural one

1114
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:33,560
on the list there for them.
But yeah, sweet deal sale deal.

1115
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,680
Let's predictive Robex.
This was a big, big bit of news

1116
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,760
in the week.
Predictive Robex joining joining

1117
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,600
together predictive the
technical acquirer 5149 split

1118
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,640
serious synergies here
operational team of of Robex

1119
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:51,920
clearly apply that to to to
predictive and you've got a a

1120
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:56,160
pretty interesting company
Guinea synergies like happy

1121
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,440
happy happy days here.
This deal makes tons of sense.

1122
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:00,440
You think the same thing?
Sweet deal.

1123
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,040
I do.
I mean, my only other point to

1124
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,160
to add would be that if you're
not reading the director's

1125
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:11,200
special daily newsletter and
what the bloody hell are you

1126
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:12,880
doing?
Because this, I was trying to

1127
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,720
think when the deal got
announced where I swear I've

1128
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:16,600
seen this before, searched my
inbox.

1129
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:20,200
And sure enough, it was I think
it was in June that you guys

1130
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,400
reported that there was
potentially A merger.

1131
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:25,800
Yeah.
And yeah, I mean, can't really

1132
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,400
make any money out of it from a
fund manager perspective, like

1133
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,320
these merger of equals, it's
just maybe get some synergies

1134
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:32,840
and it probably makes sense as a
deal.

1135
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:36,440
But I mean that that kind of
area is tricky for us anyway,

1136
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:37,440
but.
Yeah.

1137
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:39,560
I'd say this one's a sweet deal
as well.

1138
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,240
Obviously not massive to your
kind of point, there been

1139
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,760
jurisdictional spread here.
It's still Guinea and Marley

1140
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,000
kind of focus, but the the
talent to get these assets off

1141
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,000
the ground, super keen to to
watch that company grow.

1142
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:58,080
Capricorn and Warda had perhaps
final chapter play out this week

1143
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,360
as well, Trev.
Bit of a bump for for the word,

1144
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,360
our shareholders instead of
getting one Capricorn share for

1145
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,640
every 52.75, they'll get one
Capricorn share for every 62

1146
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:08,520
word shares.
I think I think this is a pretty

1147
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,320
interesting precedent just
because like we, we Jimmy

1148
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,440
Nichols join us a few weeks ago
and he said if come down to the

1149
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,800
independent experts report, if,
if, if it says it's very

1150
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:19,480
unreasonable, might be tricky
for an uplift.

1151
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:20,600
And I said I'll take the other
side.

1152
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,560
And take that, James, I was
right.

1153
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,400
But interesting part about this
deal, There was no, there was

1154
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,800
no, no best and final like
within the the docks yet.

1155
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,640
I think that probably probably
makes sense not to not to put

1156
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:35,760
that there just yet just because
there could be some, some, you

1157
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,200
know, who knows if there's more
corporate interest in, in Word

1158
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,240
that could still play out.
So you reserve, reserve the

1159
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,400
optionality.
But I wouldn't be surprised to

1160
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,640
see a best and final come out
from from Capricorn as the as

1161
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,760
the yeah, as the deadline kind
of approaches on things.

1162
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,080
But yeah.
Sweet or sour?

1163
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:51,880
Sweet deal.
I think this is good for

1164
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:56,040
everyone like yeah, like like
the peers to word I had had run

1165
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,040
between the deal announcement
and and like it's time going on

1166
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,320
with gold price running like I
think this just acknowledges

1167
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:06,000
that and yeah, it it keeps I
mean these the the word

1168
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:07,920
shareholders are going to be
future shareholders like this.

1169
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,120
This is just like, you know,
it's good for them too.

1170
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:11,920
You kind of want them on side,
yeah.

1171
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:17,640
Yeah, I'm with you to to round
off sweet and sour deal, there

1172
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:20,920
was a heap of capital raises
across the market, far too many

1173
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:24,640
to jump into to all of them.
But the one that stuck out

1174
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:26,600
actually happened at the tail
end of last week and then got

1175
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:30,800
upsized. 600 million was the
Aussie only component plus the

1176
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,520
400 million Canadian for next
Gen.

1177
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,000
Taking that one on board in the
uranium space.

1178
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,600
Ben, thoughts on this one?
Yeah, I like this one.

1179
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:42,520
I'll give this one a sweet deal.
I mean, there's a lot of other

1180
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:47,240
raisings that we've said no to
and probably goes to our EUR

1181
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,360
Hartley's thesis.
But anyway, the next Gen. quite

1182
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:54,280
like the look of that asset as
I'm sure everyone does.

1183
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,600
It's kind of well, well known
that's probably the best

1184
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,560
undeveloped asset, uranium asset
globally.

1185
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,480
But still think the numbers
probably stuck up if you're

1186
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,200
bullish on uranium.
And the other way is to play

1187
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:11,720
uranium we're not too keen on,
be it Boss or Paladin or some of

1188
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,680
the smaller developers that are
hoping for AUS government

1189
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:17,920
handout.
But yeah, quite like next Gen.

1190
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,360
Think they're entering into a
catalyst rich period now where

1191
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,560
you've got permitting.
Kind of reminds me a little bit

1192
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:27,320
of Degray, which kind of it got
bought into that period.

1193
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:31,080
Think Next Gen's strategic value
means they'll probably get bored

1194
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:35,040
as well, and I think it's a
reasonable chance over the next

1195
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:36,560
six months.
So we took a bit of that

1196
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,520
placement, bought a bit more.
So yeah, like it.

1197
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:43,560
Interesting part of this to me
was was learning, I don't think

1198
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:45,560
it's actually been reported
outside of the director special,

1199
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:50,880
but Gina well via Hancock
prospecting it for 200 to $300

1200
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,920
million a stock and that's why I
got upsized in Australia wearing

1201
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:56,440
on the decline apparently,
allegedly.

1202
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:58,760
Yeah, and a lot of scale back
too, Yeah.

1203
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:03,000
Yeah, I, I can imagine.
So I think like the, the

1204
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,920
permutation I'm running in my
head is, you know, at the

1205
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,680
permitting point, that makes my
sense for a corporate outcome,

1206
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:12,880
like for sure, because because
shareholders probably don't want

1207
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,880
existing management to be the
ones who develop the project.

1208
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,720
And they're I'm pretty invested
in, in an outcome in that sense.

1209
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:21,800
Now, when, when you might get a
corporate event or, or, or some

1210
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:25,400
sort of bid and it's revealed,
what's Gina going to do, right?

1211
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:29,840
Like is she going to buy a
blocking sake on market very

1212
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:31,640
quickly?
And then all of a sudden it'll

1213
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:34,680
be a deal with an uplift and
it'll be a joint venture with

1214
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,400
Gina.
I I I just think that's a pretty

1215
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:40,680
real possibility too, yeah.
Yeah, there's probably a few

1216
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:42,320
ways it can play out, but I
think the good thing with

1217
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:45,760
NextGen is it's probably got a
range of potential acquirers

1218
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,600
rather than some of these more
niche, niche metals that, yeah,

1219
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,440
may be a great project, but like
the majors realistically aren't

1220
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:55,360
looking at them.
Yeah, hidden gems.

1221
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:57,640
What do you have to share, JD?
Hidden gems.

1222
01:03:57,720 --> 01:03:59,720
I've got a couple things to
share.

1223
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,960
Firstly, Trev, we started we
started watching this doco

1224
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:05,920
yesterday.
It's one I'd watched years back.

1225
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,320
It's called it's a financial
type of people out there will

1226
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,560
will love this one.
It's called Trader now it's the

1227
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:17,000
the documentary that focuses on
Paul Tudor Jones and his correct

1228
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:21,400
calling of the 1987 crash.
It is it's eye opening.

1229
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:25,280
It's kind of hilarious.
It's very 1980s and it's also

1230
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:27,280
pretty insightful.
Like Paul Tudor Jones is a

1231
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,200
massive name in in the trading
business.

1232
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,080
So that's one if you're into
those types of things to to

1233
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:34,280
check it out.
And he's of course making waves

1234
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:38,280
with an interview he did earlier
this week saying we're in 1999.

1235
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:41,280
So read into that what you will.
And the second thing I'll call

1236
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:45,760
that is a podcast.
The podcast is on the tape and

1237
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:48,440
it was an interview with Michael
Lewis, obviously the the famous

1238
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:50,400
author of the big short and lies
Poker.

1239
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:55,040
And the podcast itself is hosted
by a few of the guys that were

1240
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,560
in the Big Short.
So Danny, Vinny and Porter.

1241
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:01,240
And they, yeah, they do this
kind of weekly or kind of bi

1242
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,200
weekly podcast.
Super interesting.

1243
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,960
But yeah, their reflections on
getting to to know Michael in

1244
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,360
the process of the book being
written, their reflections on

1245
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,400
the financial crisis, as well as
trying to take the pulse of

1246
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:14,520
where we are in the market right
now.

1247
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,520
Ben, have you got something else
for Hidden Gems?

1248
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,960
On the big Michael Lewis fan JDI
recently watched rewatch

1249
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:26,200
Moneyball again and can't be
calm enough for that that movie.

1250
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:32,280
But what I do have for you is in
terms of holiday spot.

1251
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:38,440
So in mid year I went to
Iceland, which I think I I want

1252
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:42,880
to call that for the money minor
community because it's got just

1253
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,320
incredible natural landscapes,
geothermal.

1254
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:50,960
It kind of just like has a bit
of, yeah, geological beauty

1255
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:52,360
about it.
I think it's just a stunning

1256
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:56,720
place to Roger up around there.
It is expensive, but when the

1257
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,680
market's running, hopefully
you're invested in sending

1258
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:02,240
goods, bonds, then you should
have enough discretionary income

1259
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:04,360
to to put to work there.
So that's my one.

1260
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:08,360
Awesome mate.
Mine is Mine is the book that

1261
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:12,880
yeah, our audience is, is we, we
call that one the money miners.

1262
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,600
This book the money miners.
I think it's I think it's an

1263
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:16,800
interesting thing to reread at
this period of time.

1264
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:22,600
Not like 1 reflection of the the
the the crazy nickel boom at the

1265
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,920
the late 60s, early 70s was no
one rings a bell at the top.

1266
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,480
But but it's very interesting to
like just like read about, you

1267
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:31,520
know, bubbles and human
psychology, human sentiment as

1268
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:34,000
things kind of get more and more
excessive and narrative kind of

1269
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:35,440
rebases higher and higher and
higher.

1270
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:39,960
And like, you know, we're all
everyone, everyone, everyone's

1271
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,720
making loads of money in a bull
market heaps.

1272
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,960
But but it's always just like
good to just check and try and

1273
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,720
like compare where are we?
Like, where are we at any point

1274
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:52,480
in time.
So yeah, yeah, it's just

1275
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:54,920
refreshing to read this point
period of time, I think.

1276
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,840
Fantastic.
Ben, thanks a bunch for joining

1277
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,520
us and sharing your thoughts on
Jeez, we must have covered two

1278
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:02,600
dozen stocks there.
So I really appreciate that.

1279
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,600
And a massive thank you to Sandy
Ground Support Focus, the

1280
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:07,720
platform by Market Tech and
iMac.

1281
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:09,480
Get your tickets Hoodoo money
miners.

1282
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,600
Better now remember, I'm an
idiot.

1283
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:16,320
JD is an idiot.
If you thought any of this was

1284
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,840
anything other than
entertainment, you're an idiot

1285
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:20,400
and you need to read our
disclaimer.