Finding 10-Baggers in Junior Mining Stocks (with Vukasin & CrimsonCarp)

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Righto money miners.
We've got a early stage junior

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exploration episode here.
Jesus Christ.

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Did someone say Kay drill far
out?

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Is there a better Segway?
Mate?

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This has got their name all over
it.

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This is, this is, this is like,
you know, figuring out where the

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next discoveries are, are, are
going to come from.

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And also when a, when a good
drill hit is actually going to

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turn into something really,
really, really, really

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profitable.
Mate, Kate, you'll need to talk

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to Vukan and Carp to to get
right across this 'cause that's

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where they gotta put the rigs.
Well, when they figure out where

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it's gonna be, that's when they
figure out when they're gonna

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ring K drill.
So yeah, mate, 'cause if you

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want, you don't want the bloody
grade coming out shit after

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you've drilled it due to poor
sample management quality drill.

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Take that away.
You know what else they take

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away?
Budget blowouts, they bloody

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they work with you on the cost
per metre, they bloody they will

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make sure the board isn't saying
what the hell happened to that

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drill budget.
Yeah, mate, just and there.

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Is transparent invoicing.
There is 3 truths in life,

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death, tax and nobody dislikes
Ryan O'Sullivan.

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That is why he is the greatest
man in the world.

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Give him a bloody yell, right?
Oh, who we got, boys, we have.

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Crimson Karp, who we're going to
call Karp or CC for short

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throughout he he writes a sub
SEC Geo Aussie based.

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So we're going to sort of run
through his and focus in a

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character known to the the
Twitter folk out there who's

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also super, super competent in
the way he goes about finding

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sourcing various exploration
junior companies across the

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world.
So these guys have kind of

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contrasting styles, but I think
there's plenty to be to be

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learnt from both of them and
that's what we really get at in

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this in this chat.
They're market animals, you

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know, and, and the, the skill
that they are honing or have

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honed and continue to hone is
just, yeah, like when a, when a,

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a discovery or a drill hit comes
out, is this, is this going to

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be meaningful?
And also kind of predicting

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which companies are doing proper
exploration in the 1st place to

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warrant a potential discovery?
Yeah.

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Clean up that watch list to
start with and then you can sort

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of understand their different
styles.

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You know, getting in before the
discovery, waiting till the hits

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come out and jumping on.
It's it was interesting to have

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them both on at the same time
and hear the differences from

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from two people who are quite
good at it.

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Or getting out before the hits
come out.

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Whatever gets the job done,
that's.

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Another one right now.
Let's get into that.

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Right on money miners, we've got
a wonderful conversation that

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we're about to have with with,
with two people we've we've kind

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of come come to know in, in
recent history 11 Vukison and

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Vuk is, is yeah, a, a character
that I'm keen to bring his voice

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to the to the podcast.
He's done as about as much as

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anyone I I can think of to, to
get up to speed on geology and

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focuses so much of his time
trying to to figure out the the

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you know, where can you actually
have alpha in early stage

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expiration?
Even though he's, he's not a

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Geo, but he when he sounds and
talks and speaks, he kind of

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convinces me.
And alongside him, we've got

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Crimson Karp who writes about
geological Alpha under under

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that pseudonym for Substack
Crimson Carp, or we'll call him

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Carp for for the remainder of
this conversation is a is a

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geologist and, you know, spends
a lot of his time trolling

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through the ASX announcements
and, and finding Alpha on the

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1st drill hole.
Vuk has a much more part of TSX

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focus, which we'll we'll tease
into.

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And I know the two of them spend
a lot of time talking to each

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other as it relates to those
geological alpha opportunities.

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Thank you so much for for
joining us Carp and Vuk on Money

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Mine.
Thank you guys for having us.

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Pleasure is all ours.
We're we're keen to talk to you

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for a bunch of reasons, not
least of which is I kind of just

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want to learn how to do what you
guys do.

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I mean, we, we cut our teeth on
the on the, on the finance side

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of things, Maddie covers mining,
but we definitely have a weak

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spot on, on the geological
alpha.

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But we all know that's where the
real money in this industry is

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made is when you're onto a good
thing early is for you guys to

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the equation to focus your time
on that is it as simple as this

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is the best return on investment
of your time you can you can

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have.
You see, you want to go first.

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Yeah, yeah.
I think in my case I just sort

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of worked out I sucked at
everything else so.

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It's sort of like.
OK, I kind of went through, you

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know, 10 years, 15 years with
the trading and playing with,

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with the sector and then looked
at what worked and it's like,

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OK, well, what worked was buying
discoveries on the day.

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And I just sort of said, OK,
well, let's optimize for that.

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And you know, the other part of
it was sort of the appeal that

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one in 1000 prospects will
become a will become a mine and

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that sort of, you know, pays for
the entire industry and

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everything that's otherwise lost
making an expiration.

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So just sort of went, OK, well,
I'll just buy those and then

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yeah, it'll be sweet.
And yeah, I never made a mistake

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or had any troubles, so lost any
money.

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And obviously that's a joke.
So yeah, it took a long, it took

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a long time to learn, you know,
all the tricks.

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But yeah, that was that's
essentially it.

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Luke, why don't you share a bit
of colour on, on your style

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because you know, we've, we've
spoken a bit in the past and and

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it does differ a bit.
You guys go at the the same sort

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of style, but from a bit of a
different approach. 100 percent,

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100% and I I think CC has a has
a big, big advantage on me and

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pretty much all of us here with
a with a really strong

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geological background.
And before just diving into this

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a bit there, there is one one
detail that you might want want

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to highlight here with regards
to what's the best way to to

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make money in the sector, right?
Well, the best way is not

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usually not hard work, man.
It's usually to get the cheapest

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paper and be the earliest one in
a certain deal, usually on the

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private side.
And then, you know, looking to,

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to take it to take it public a
year or two, two years later or

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something like that or be a
project vendor, right.

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But if you're a market animal,
then you should prepare to do

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some hard work.
And so basically my, my approach

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is very, very similar to CCS
with we, we do have, we do have

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certain differences.
And I'm, I'm saying this with

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with utmost respect.
And I think boiling down,

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boiling down, our strategy is to
just, yes, it is.

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It is nice to put it simply like
just by, by on the first day or

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the discovery or by pre
discovery or anything like that.

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But the word discovery can mean,
can mean different, different

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things in, in different
circumstances, right?

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And it is actually in my mind,
what I actually look at is in

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in, in very rough terms, like
skiing where the puck is going,

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right?
And you can have certain

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situations, certain companies
that are certainly in certain

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situations, depending on their
valuations, depending on their

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stages of development, where the
the market is asking a different

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question from that company.
And so if that company, if you

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can predict that the answer to
that certain question at that

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certain point is going to be
positive, then your stock is

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likely likely to do well, right?
A very blunt example would be a

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nano cap 5 million market cap
drilling of let's say, a very

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good looking target, right?
Is the question at that point

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like is this quote UN quote
discovery that we're about to

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make going to be a mine or is
the question that the market is

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asking, is there anything here
at all?

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Right.
You just need a sniff of

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something to for your stock to
perform well.

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So, yeah, sometimes you're in
the business of actually

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figuring out if something can be
a mine or not, but something

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some in actually in the majority
of other cases you're you're in

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the situation business of finger
ring out.

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Or is there going to be a
positive event for this or this

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or a catalyst for this
instrument that I'm looking at?

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Right.
And I'm just speaking strictly

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in finance terms here.
So yeah, that's, that's that's

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the way I say it.
You just you just looking at

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what the actual question is for
a certain situation and finger

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ring out, if you can quote UN
quote predict.

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And what I say predict is assess
the probability of the outcome

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going into your favor if you do
not have an edge.

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And this is usually a geological
edge, right?

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It we can, we can talk, we're
certainly going surely going to

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talk about it a bit later.
Which type of geology is quote

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UN quote predictable.
CC has actually some some on his

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sub stack has some really,
really good historical examples

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where he shows that when you go
retractively, some some things

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were absolutely obvious in
advance and other things were

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not obvious at all.
So.

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Let's let's talk about that
Duke, because you know, I know

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from our conversations, you,
your focus is on copper and

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gold.
You think that's where you can

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actually have an edge here.
Why?

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Well, first of all, the, my, my
personal bias towards copper

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gold is the macro backdrop, not
that I'm some kind of macro guy.

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I'm not going to take you take
your hand now and tell you about

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the, the green revolution or the
dollar going to 0 or anything

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like that.
It's just that for whatever

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reason, we seem to be in secular
bull markets for both teams,

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right?
And when you are in a sector

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that is as cyclical as mining,
you better hope that you have

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the tailwind or the cycle behind
your back.

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Otherwise you're going to, in
certain situations and certain

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time periods, periods of time
you're going to end up wondering

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like, is this thing going
actually going to go to 0,

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right?
Like nickel, like lithium at

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some point and, and, and, and
similar, similar commodities.

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So the problem with that is if
you are using companies to bet,

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to bet on the, on the underlying
commodity, even if you get the

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discovery, right, not not
necessarily discovery, let's say

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a situation, right?
You, you actually figure out the

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potential potential alpha play
in a, in a certain stock, you're

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likely not going to attain the
returns that you quote UN quote

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deserve if you do not have or at
least if the cycle is not

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neutral behind you, right.
But if you do not have the

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tailwind of the cycle, if it's
going against you, you're

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probably not going to do that.
Do that.

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Great.
And I mentioned this at, at

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another podcast, you can see for
example, Q2 metals, actually a

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massive lithium discovery in
Quebec, very similar, very

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similar to Patriot battery
metals, but it just doesn't have

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the tailwind of the cycle behind
it right now.

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And people, people who were
early in it have not been

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rewarded extremely well so far,
right.

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But if you look at the last, I
would say four or five years, if

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you made a serious copper
discovery or just had a

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perception of it or having a
serious copper discovery, your

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stock would have done really
well irrespective of you, you

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know, if you were listed on the
ESXV on the SX, irrespective of

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whether copper was 3.6 dollars
or 4.5, right?

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So that's my, that's my personal
bias #1 let's say, let's call it

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macro.
And the second bias is the

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geological 1 where first of all,
copper and gold that are related

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geologically, right?
And yes, I'm referring to to

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porphyries here mainly.
And the Australian audience will

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probably going to, we're
probably going to be thinking

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about ICGS and but, but if you
were to put put these things

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into into just one basket, you
would call it intrusion related

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geology, right?
And why I'm personally biased

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towards this is, well, you could
say math.

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And when I say math, I would, I
would simply simplify that as I

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guess predictability, right?
Because when you make let's

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let's go with a simple one.
When you make a porphyrit

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discovery, if it's, if it's a
good, good, solid, fertile

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system from maybe even two or
three drill calls, you can hang

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your hat onto the fact that you
have the tiger bar, the tail,

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right?
Once you step 5000 hundred, 50,

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maybe even 203 hundred meters
into a certain direction, you're

223
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,840
not, you're not praying to God
that that the system is still

224
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:37,360
going to be there, right?
Unlike drilling, say or Jenny

225
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:42,880
Gold or, or, or or similar
geologies where the, the, the

226
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,560
inconsistencies, the, the, the
variability of those of those

227
00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:49,280
geologies are significantly,
significantly higher.

228
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,320
And then there is the later risk
of, you know, developing it,

229
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,040
figuring out what it actually is
in terms of the resource, what

230
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,880
the actual grade is and so on
and so forth.

231
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,920
So yeah, those, those would be
those would be the two main

232
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,400
things from my end.
CC just to throw over to you

233
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,520
quickly, have you got
commodities or particular

234
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,120
deposit types of styles that you
prioritise in your approach?

235
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:16,080
Yeah, there's, there's certainly
things I I like and that changes

236
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,760
over time, how much macro
impacts it and it's probably a

237
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,160
fair bit, you know, don't have a
huge interest in lithium at the

238
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,520
moment.
But the other side of that is,

239
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,680
is, is really a matter of those
systems that can produce, you

240
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:32,120
know, very high grade, high
marginal bodies.

241
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,080
You know, so for example,
something like a like a nickel

242
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,080
ladder eye.
If you go out there and make

243
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,720
lots of capital investment and,
you know, build out what what's

244
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,840
happening in Indonesia, you can
probably make a lot of money.

245
00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:46,920
But if you're talking about a
junior as a, you know,

246
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,600
speculative vehicle pursuing
that sort of ore body, it's,

247
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,720
it's kind of difficult.
So, yeah, in, in what, in what I

248
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,160
look for, it's, it's generally,
it's generally those ore bodies

249
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,800
that can, that can drop in those
lowest cost quartiles.

250
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,160
And there's certain, there's
certain deposit types that are

251
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,560
amenable to that and there's
certain deposit types out there

252
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,520
that just aren't.
And this, this goes across, you

253
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:14,800
know.
All commodities.

254
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,680
Sandvik Ground Sport keeps the
roof up.

255
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:18,680
Across all commodities, that's
another thing.

256
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,160
Across all commodities does.
It doesn't matter whether you're

257
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,040
mining the shittest ground in
the world.

258
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,560
Sandvik have the bolt for it.
There'd be no there'd be no

259
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,400
explorers to even play that with
if Sandvik didn't support the

260
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,240
whole industry and make these
mines possible.

261
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,160
Oh but have you 2 ever known so
much about bolts in your life?

262
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,760
More than I ever thought I would
know Maddie.

263
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,800
Thanks Sam Victoria and Derek
Urd like for just just from you

264
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,520
2 like right the from the old
school friction bolts all the

265
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,800
way up to their new dynamic bolt
for the seismic areas.

266
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,760
Mate, we're talking
state-of-the-art reengineered

267
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,320
dynamic bolts that have learnt
from the past and you would say

268
00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:01,520
they the bolt bonds to the resin
with these new bolts like a

269
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,040
mummy's boy on his first night
back from school camp.

270
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,400
That is just that is the best
way I can explain it.

271
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,640
For all I've learned about
ground support, there is only

272
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,520
one thing you really need to
know, and that is use Sandvik

273
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:13,800
ground support.
Exactly.

274
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:19,560
So.
Now, Cece, I, I know that, you

275
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,520
know, you have a kind of
strongly held philosophy as

276
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,640
written up in a, in a, in a
recent sub stack post of yours,

277
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,680
that, that the, the, the best
kind of risk reward you can have

278
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,960
in in investing in, in
geological alpha comes when you

279
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,000
you buy kind of immediately
after the the first drill hole.

280
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,400
And other people in the industry
might have a different view on

281
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,000
you to this, but I'd love to get
your your perspective on why.

282
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,480
Yeah, Yeah, certainly.
So I mean, if we if we look at

283
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,120
any junior resource company,
they they're out there, they're

284
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,400
they're doing exploration.
You know, it could be good

285
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,320
exploration could be bad.
It's it's they're putting the,

286
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,360
the qualitative question aside.
I mean, what they're doing is

287
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,360
they're is they're risking
capital to to provide a

288
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,960
discovery and they're
ultimately, you know, finding

289
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,560
themselves through dilutive
phrasings, right.

290
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,160
And, you know, it's, it's in
effect in the absence of a

291
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,600
discovery of value destructive
enterprise.

292
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:25,680
Now, one of the, one of the, you
know, things that happened to me

293
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,880
once is I came across, I came
across a, an Excel file in which

294
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,520
I essentially reviewed the
entire ASX, every single

295
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,680
company, right?
And I ranked them from from best

296
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,680
to worst.
And what I found is I came

297
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,160
across sort of about five years
after I made it and I found that

298
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,040
about half of the companies in
the, in the top ten that I

299
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:45,600
actually placed there had made
discoveries.

300
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,080
So the thing was I clearly had
an edge.

301
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,240
I discovered I had an edge in,
in defining what a really good

302
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,840
exploration company looks like.
But you know, some of those

303
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,400
positions were minus 90s, right?
And 10 bagging of -90 you don't

304
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:08,400
actually make any money.
So in terms of the risk reward,

305
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,200
you can go out there and
identify companies that do good

306
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,079
exploration, but that doesn't
mean that within any one year or

307
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:16,000
three month period or six month
period, they'll make a

308
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,640
discovery.
So the best thing to do from a

309
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:23,119
risk reward perspective is
actually to, you know, it's what

310
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,720
I do sit out.
And once you see those

311
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,600
discoveries, once you see those
first hits, you can make the

312
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,400
assessment of, OK, does this
have the potential to be

313
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,640
something?
And, and you essentially enter,

314
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,080
you know, at a point of, of what
I describe as as reward

315
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,600
asymmetry, right?
Because the company, even if it

316
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,000
goes up 50%, it's still trading
within orders of magnitude of

317
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,360
of, you know, something that
doesn't have anything.

318
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,520
And then from there, you know,
as it evolves and, and the

319
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,200
drilling evolves, you can assess
and, and sort of make the

320
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,920
judgement of, OK, this is going
to keep getting better.

321
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,680
Or is this as good as it kind of
get?

322
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,680
And yeah.
That's it.

323
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,320
The the minus the -90 that you
had on predicting kind of

324
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,400
exploration success.
So you you'd buy a junior and it

325
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,120
would go down -90 before having
the the discovery.

326
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:14,640
So I had the 10 bag in order to
even break even.

327
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,960
But along that journey of -90
it's not always intuitive that

328
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,840
it might have been a $10 million
market cap when you put money

329
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,680
into it and it was still a $10
million market cap when it had

330
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,360
its discovery.
It's just the impact of of

331
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:30,640
dilution to be kind of, you
know, fund fund drilling and

332
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,920
keeping the lights on over the
course of a couple years is

333
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:34,480
that's what that's where you
get.

334
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,040
Minus 5%.
Yeah, absolutely.

335
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,880
And it's and it's really hard.
You know, the, the thing that I,

336
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,600
and I'm, I'm sort of started
writing a piece about this at

337
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,040
the moment, but the thing that I
described is the greatest

338
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,000
competitive advantage in, in
exploration is actually the

339
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,600
stability of funding.
Because if you're a company and

340
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:58,240
if you're able to confidently
fund yourself chasing, you know,

341
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,200
good targets and, and great
geology and all of those things

342
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,560
and, and get, you know, just
doughnut after doughnut after

343
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,120
doughnut with the understanding
that eventually doing what

344
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:09,680
you're doing, you will hit it
and your investors understanding

345
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,600
that that's just how the process
works.

346
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:16,400
Eventually you, you do see these
companies make discovery, you

347
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,520
know, I guess Oz Quest as a, as
a recent example in Kongola and

348
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,520
Peru is a great example because
you, you look at the company

349
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,520
over the last five years and
it's just, you know, 0 after

350
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,320
zero.
But you can see that in the way

351
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,920
they ran their exploration that
we're eventually going to find

352
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,520
something.
The style is obviously super

353
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,400
risky because of what you said
right at the beginning there.

354
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,280
That one in 10,000 maybe
actually becomes a mine.

355
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,960
So even after that quote, UN
quote discovery, there's heaps

356
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,800
of risk and, and you write about
this in a, in a post where you

357
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:53,280
outlay the, the risk mitigation,
the techniques and there's a

358
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,440
sort of four point plan that
you've got.

359
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,240
I think it'd be super important
to just talk through each of

360
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,760
those and just learn about how
you minimize the risk when

361
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,840
you're sort of in a way jumping
on the momentum, jumping on

362
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,680
after the the hole has been hit
and you know, good results have

363
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,400
come up.
Yeah, yeah.

364
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:17,720
So I guess that that whole post
was a bit of passive aggression

365
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,800
on my part towards the Lausanne
curve because it took me back to

366
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,960
a point where I was actually
trying to use it to, you know,

367
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,440
run my investments and it wasn't
particularly useful, right.

368
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,640
And ultimately, if you're sort
of in this very early discovery

369
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,480
space, what you need to
recognize is that, you know,

370
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,040
even though someone calls
something a discovery, it it's,

371
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,000
you know, there's different,
there's different kinds of

372
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,600
discoveries.
And that's why I sort of make

373
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,880
mention of something and they
call the discovery spectrum,

374
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,160
right?
Which, you know, it could be a

375
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,440
really obvious big discovery or
it could just be, you know, a

376
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,800
flesh and a pan that once you
follow it up with a couple of

377
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,320
drill holes will turn out to be
nothing.

378
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,600
So the way I sort of imagine
this is, is, you know, you'll

379
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,960
get that first drill hole and
then that will that will spare

380
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,440
the share price.
But until the company goes

381
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,440
through these gateways of
actually proving that, you know,

382
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,040
OK, this hangs together, the
grade is half decent and all of

383
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,800
these different factors, you're
constantly going through these

384
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,760
gateways.
And if you, and this is, this is

385
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,200
something I've done, if you
actually look at, you know, how

386
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,960
many companies have that initial
bloop and then carry on to a

387
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,480
secondary bloop going through
these gateways, it's it's

388
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,800
something that, you know, if
it's, you know, power law

389
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,200
distributions and statistics,
it's it's all Pareto

390
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,280
distributions, which, you know,
one in 10 that has an initial

391
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,120
discovery will go through the
next stage, right?

392
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,640
So then you need to think about
it in terms of, OK, how do you

393
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,720
manage your portfolio or
whatever amount of money you set

394
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,640
aside for this type of
investing, right?

395
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,880
And the maths is pretty brutal
because you know, let's say

396
00:21:53,880 --> 00:22:00,440
you're talking about that
initial discovery and post the

397
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,040
initial discovery and that first
peak, you've got about a nine in

398
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,280
10 chance of a 50% plus
drawdown.

399
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,360
All right?
So your portfolio goes from 100,

400
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:18,720
fifty, 2512 and a half 6.75.
But if you put much higher risk

401
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,320
tolerances on there and actually
sort of take a little bit off

402
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,800
and put a lot more on, once
things are confirmed, the

403
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:33,800
arithmetic goes 10100 and so on.
So you can actually in terms of

404
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,760
a wider portfolio have greatly
different outcomes depending on

405
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,040
how you take care of that risk
mitigation I.

406
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:49,560
Think I know, I know you have a
maybe a bit of a different, you

407
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:54,120
know view on on the opportunity
set to to capture exploration

408
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:56,720
success from discovery.
And I know your portfolio.

409
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,200
You've got a few positions where
you know the company you think

410
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,360
is highly perspective to have a
discovery rather than than has 1

411
00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:06,320
immediately.
Where do you differ to to carp?

412
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,960
Right.
I was listening this to this

413
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,840
very carefully and there are a
couple of things to be said if

414
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,760
I, if I may, may make just a
small digression.

415
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,520
It's really pertinent to to what
CC just said.

416
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,640
CC you were you were a head of
on your sub stack.

417
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,320
You were ahead of the recent
Ozquest discovery.

418
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,560
I don't know if you if you had
bought the stock, it doesn't

419
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,480
even really matter, but it it
was clear and I was commenting

420
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,000
on this to you that it was a
pretty, pretty beautiful target

421
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,480
there in Peru.
There were there were plenty of

422
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,000
reasons to be cynical about it,
right?

423
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,440
But cynicists don't win at this
business.

424
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,960
And would you say that at
whatever it was 5 million

425
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,000
Australian or so market cap,
would you say that before the

426
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,680
recent news came out that it
that it had been obvious that

427
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,560
they would put something out
that was tangible and that would

428
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,840
bring the share price up?
When I say obvious, let's say

429
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,920
50% plus probability.
Yeah.

430
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,520
No, it was.
It was obvious they would hit

431
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,720
something.
It wasn't obvious that they

432
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,640
would hit something as I guess
big as they have.

433
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,000
Yeah, you mean continues, right?
Yeah, Yep.

434
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,240
OK, OK, that that's, I can, I
can definitely agree with that.

435
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,640
But I would, I would just
highlight that that's, that's I

436
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,600
think a situation, a very good
recent situation.

437
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,720
By the way, I, I, I did not buy
the stock, it's on the ASX.

438
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,160
It is something that I would
have to watch pretty much every

439
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,280
night and my bandwidth has been
quite, quite packed recently.

440
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:42,160
So I, I did not buy it on that
target, but it's, it's a very

441
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:48,080
good recent practical example of
the question being posed onto

442
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,280
that stock by the market onto
that company not being, is this

443
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,600
a mine or is this the best
poultry ever?

444
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,600
Is this, you know, Escondida?
That's not, that was not the

445
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,360
question at all.
The question was, is there

446
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:00,040
something here at all?
Right.

447
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,640
And the answer was yes.
And you know, there we go.

448
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,440
That was the performance.
So that's, that's one comment.

449
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,600
Another another quick comment.
I would have what you guys

450
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,600
brought up with regards to all
the dilution that happened and

451
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,440
all the Donuts that that Uzquest
had had put out in the past.

452
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:22,000
You know, I, I had, I, you know,
I had not been following the

453
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,280
company.
But when you just open the five

454
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,560
year chart or, or, or, or a
longer term chart, let's say

455
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,640
three years, even two years, you
would see all the dilution.

456
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,760
You can see the stock, the stock
was consistently going down

457
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,680
right on a per share basis,
obviously.

458
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,880
And so the the way, the way to
avoid this in my mind and and

459
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,120
try, I'm just just bouncing off
of what you briefly mentioned is

460
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,240
somebody would have in in the
past, somebody who likes these

461
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:52,560
guys.
And I don't know the, the, the

462
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,800
Osquest people.
Somebody, let's say three years

463
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,760
ago would have pitched you on
betting on this great group of

464
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,560
geologists and people that they
were going to find us, find a

465
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,040
discovery somewhere at some
point, right?

466
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,160
And it would, it would have been
phrased to you and pitched as a

467
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,320
people bet, right?
And this is actually the very

468
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,200
one of the, one of the very,
very, again, practical examples

469
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,800
why I don't really like want to
quote betting on people, right?

470
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,680
Because it's not just about
people in the business and

471
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,280
people can't bend rocks and they
they certainly can't bend the

472
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,560
share structures.
And yes, there is some financial

473
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,400
alchemy that can be done from
time to time, but you can't

474
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,000
really, you can't really bend
reality.

475
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:37,440
And so let's say three years
ago, if Ozquest did not have as

476
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,320
compelling of a target and as
cheap of evaluation as it had

477
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,920
recently, right, with this Peru
target, why, why would you why

478
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,280
would you even have considered
that in the past, right, Trev?

479
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:55,720
So, you know, losing sitting in
that getting an 80% prolonged

480
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,320
drawdown or a 70 plus percent or
whatever, let's call it, you

481
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,200
know, 50% plus it was, it was
avoidable.

482
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,840
So I'm just, I'm just touching
on those things.

483
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,640
And with, with regards to CC's
approach of quote UN quote

484
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,960
buying on the 1st hole and maybe
maybe if I may call it chasing

485
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,160
up right.
I, I have, I have a couple of

486
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,240
biases against that, though, at
the same time, I think there are

487
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:31,000
perfectly, perfectly good
examples where it is, it is

488
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,720
reasonable to do so.
And I'm going, I'm going to give

489
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,640
you 1.
And so my, my first problem

490
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,320
with, with it and the personal
bias against it is that I'm just

491
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,480
too cheap, right?
And if, if something is getting

492
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,120
through a period of say two
weeks consistently more

493
00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:50,240
expensive, I'm really reluctant
to pay up.

494
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:54,480
Yes, this can this can result
in, in missing, missing stuff

495
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,960
out, but it just again, it's
just a personal bias and I'm

496
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,640
perfectly aware of it.
Second of all, I started doing

497
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:08,120
this years ago, a couple of
years ago because and I, I

498
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,520
picked mining because I realized
I wanted to get into finance,

499
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:12,440
right?
I have an engineering

500
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,080
background.
I wanted to get into finance.

501
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,360
And yes, of course, I have my
own portfolio as well.

502
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:21,880
But whatever I do and whatever,
whatever I learn, I do with the

503
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,880
intention of being useful to
some more serious people and

504
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,320
bigger, let's say bigger
portfolios and more serious

505
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,840
people in the business, right?
And my problem with buying on

506
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:37,720
the 1st hole is that it is not
reputable for serious portfolios

507
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,600
and, and for, for bigger
tickets, right?

508
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,360
How, how do you, how do you use
that strategy when, when you are

509
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,600
not even that big, let's say
$100 million fund, right?

510
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,120
How do you build a significantly
sized position in a, in a

511
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:56,680
basically a nano cap when it
already has, when it already has

512
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,320
a catalyst and everybody else is
looking at it and there's money

513
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,800
flowing in.
So it's a perfectly, perfectly

514
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,040
good strategy for for us plebs,
right?

515
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,720
We, we have relatively,
relatively small portfolios.

516
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,560
I mean, I, I would say for, for
most recent guys, maybe even I'm

517
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,520
now maybe have have decent size,
right.

518
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,880
But in, in serious business,
it's absolutely peanuts.

519
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,120
And you can, you can swing
around even 6 figure positions

520
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,680
relatively easily, right?
Sometimes not, not, not always

521
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,200
in nano caps, but low 6 figures,
of course.

522
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:38,040
And so my, my again problem #2
is, is it really replicable in,

523
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,320
in serious business?
And is it serious business in

524
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,720
the 1st place, right?
Do I really want to be chasing,

525
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,800
chasing something up?
And, and if I may play devil's

526
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,680
advocate to myself here, at the
same time, there is this, as I

527
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,440
said, I was going to give an
example.

528
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,400
There is a perfectly good set of
circumstances where you should

529
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,440
be actually chasing up and, and,
and it's it's actually

530
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,480
completely justifiable to do so.
And I think it is success

531
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:12,040
stories that already had a lot
of credit given to them in

532
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,560
advance.
And what I mean, well promoted

533
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,800
companies that I mean, it can
happen like even the, the, the

534
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,240
stocks that get severely pumped
by whatever, whatever source of

535
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,040
promotion can actually be very
legit companies and, and have

536
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,720
very legit assets.
And let's say that on top of all

537
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,200
that pricing or valuation
premium, you actually get a a

538
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,480
real success.
On top of that, the stock is

539
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:35,920
just going to keep going up,
right?

540
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,960
And, and that's the in my mind,
that is the point where you

541
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,880
should overpay, you should chase
up.

542
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,720
Again, a blunt example would be,
let's say you have something

543
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:51,240
that arrived to 80, ninety $100
million market cap prediscovery,

544
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,000
right?
And these things do happen.

545
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,080
Like you can literally have
juniors with 00 drill holes

546
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,520
with, with close to triple
digit, triple digit market caps.

547
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,920
And so triple digit millions, of
course.

548
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,920
And so if they do get that, that
discovery, why, why would you

549
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,080
not be?
Why would you not be buying up?

550
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,640
And what's what's interesting
when they do get that catalyst

551
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,160
onto say 100 for simplicity, 100
million market cap, it wouldn't

552
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,520
be a + 400% in two days or one
day.

553
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,480
It would be maybe plus 20% of
the day, right.

554
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:31,240
So the, the uptick that, that
the uptick is not not really

555
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,120
running away from you, running,
running away from you that hard

556
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,520
on the, on the once once the
positive event already happened.

557
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,960
So I would I would definitely
trace up, but that that is the

558
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,880
situation where where I would
like to see it.

559
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,440
How do you think about just the,
so you, you fleshed out the

560
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,840
differences there vogue in
potentially scaling up, you

561
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,840
know, in a, in a fun sort of
context, how do you think about

562
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,400
the limitations there?
There's of course only a limited

563
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,280
number of options.
You know, certain markets aren't

564
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,120
as strong as they once were.
Australia and perhaps Canada

565
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,240
attract most the sort of
capital, but there's a, there's

566
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:09,720
a handful of well, not a
handful.

567
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,920
There's limited numbers of good
teams out there doing, doing

568
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,520
great work.
What, what is the kind of size?

569
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,600
I'm sure you've sort of thought
about this in your own mind in

570
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,280
the past of a, a potential
portfolio that just chases

571
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,720
these, these juniors and gets in
nice and early and then, you

572
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:27,640
know, exits somewhere along the
way.

573
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,960
Yeah.
So first of all, 100 percent,

574
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:37,400
100% junior portfolio or 100%
like exploration portfolio.

575
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,080
Again, in serious business, I
don't think that's doable,

576
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,160
right?
But what is doable in, in hedge

577
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,080
fund terms that you have at, I
know, a bigger mining mining

578
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,720
fund or somebody or a fund that
invests natural resources that

579
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,000
you have, quote UN quote, a pod
that's going to, that's going to

580
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,720
do, let's say nano caps, micro
caps, small caps.

581
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,040
And how I thought about this in
terms of, let's just hone in on,

582
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,200
on, on on exploration and really
early stage stuff.

583
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,640
Well, I, I think in most of the
cases you would have to switch

584
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:15,760
up, you would have to switch up
the, the business models a bit.

585
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,840
And what I mean by this is when
you're big, you're certainly not

586
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,680
going to place all your bets
into juniors that own projects.

587
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,720
100% yes, there are some
situations that are so special

588
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,840
that you know, it is just a
matter of time.

589
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,400
I mean, no, let's say 7080% plus
probability that they're going

590
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,200
to have a positive, very
positive catalyst in 12/18/20

591
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,040
four months, right?
There are these things in the

592
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,000
market.
And I, I, I also can, can give a

593
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,640
practical example from, from,
from the last two years or so.

594
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,480
Yes, there are these special
things, but generally speaking,

595
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,880
you're not going going to be
doing large positions.

596
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:56,800
What I mean by this like 10%
plus of the into things that own

597
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,400
a project on 100% basis that are
going to be diluting themselves

598
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,840
all the time to advance that
project IE drill it.

599
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,760
So what I mean by this is
switching off the business

600
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,960
models is looking at prospect
generators, right.

601
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,760
And you very nicely pointed out
like there is a, there is let's

602
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,360
say a small number of teams
doing really good work.

603
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:23,440
But if you can find several
prospect generators or prospect

604
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:28,800
generator like junior businesses
and you can actually, and it's

605
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:33,280
not some lifestyle crap, you
can, you can hang your hat on to

606
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,600
the fact that you like their
portfolio, that you see a lot of

607
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,159
potential, you know, in say 5
assets that they have.

608
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,320
Maybe they have two partnered
up, maybe they are spending some

609
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,120
money in one.
And but they're still not going

610
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,159
to be diluting you into Infinity
over a say a three-year period,

611
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:49,880
right?
Then that is something where I

612
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:56,199
think a fund could could could
build, could build a position of

613
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:58,400
say 5 to 10% of the company,
right.

614
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,280
And these are companies that can
easily grow 102 hundred 300

615
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,800
million market caps with serious
discoveries.

616
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,880
And note that I didn't say here
just bet on the people.

617
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,160
I said actually look at the
portfolio, right, because there

618
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,720
are a lot of these situations
not not to get into the prospect

619
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:18,800
generator model too much, but it
is it is a kind of appraised

620
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,760
model because quote, UN quote
those other people who are there

621
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,560
in the company are going to do
the work for you.

622
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,680
They're going to find the
discovery and at the same time,

623
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,680
you know, great deal, they're
not going to dilute you.

624
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,160
But what what tends to happen
and what I noticed have noticed

625
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,360
is that these things tend to be
just become not so obvious

626
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,560
lifestyle vehicles, right?
And they go on for, I don't

627
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,000
know, 345 plus years without
actually doing anything tangible

628
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,080
and not having, not having a,
not having a flagship asset even

629
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,600
they're just, they're just
willing and dealing right.

630
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,560
And nothing serious is going on
in there.

631
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:55,920
So there is a caveat to that as
well.

632
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,320
But that is, that is how I
would, how I would think about

633
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,960
it.
And if I may, if I may give one

634
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,640
example, there is a interesting
exploration story that's, that's

635
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,840
in Australia.
It's, it's actually a CSC listed

636
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,600
company.
I don't own it.

637
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,000
I don't own it and like I don't
even know if we have it in our,

638
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,040
in our database in our, in our
company, we don't even cover it.

639
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,080
I think it's called inflection
resources and they're doing,

640
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,760
they're doing some exploration
with, with Anglo Gold in

641
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,560
Australia.
So they had some, some

642
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,840
interesting news recently.
And, and so for example, that is

643
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,520
a situation where you have a
partnership set up with a major

644
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,600
company in a joint venture that
is very favorably set up.

645
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,000
Actually, that's very rare.
It's very favorably set up

646
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,160
towards the junior.
So maybe this, this, this kind

647
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,480
of a stock or this kind of a
company will be something that

648
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,000
could be a small position for a,
for a, for a bigger portfolio

649
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,560
where they can, let's say for
two or three years, set it, set

650
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,840
it and forget it, right?
Like you're not going to get

651
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,080
diluted.
And then then yes, you still

652
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,160
take risk, but it's much, much
lower and much better than than

653
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,720
going, going like on something
that's that's just 100% owned

654
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:10,360
and going to they load pretty
much every six months.

655
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,840
Yeah, it's a wicked point.
And we we, we don't often talk

656
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,920
about those types of, of
companies, the prospect

657
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,200
generators, but like relevant to
the Asxi think like, you know,

658
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,040
encounter resources.
They were a prospect generator

659
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,640
type of company up until the, up
until they, you know, sort of

660
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,480
pivoted to to focus on what was
what was a new discovery in the,

661
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,560
in the restaurant to there.
They're very, very high quality

662
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:33,360
company.
Yeah.

663
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:34,440
Thank you, Anna.
Totally.

664
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,520
Yeah, Yeah, on the board, I
believe.

665
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:43,120
Yeah, that's right.
No, he's, he's exceptional.

666
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,000
Yeah, John.
I'd love to, to ask you as well

667
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,760
while we're in the sort of post
code up in the West to run to

668
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,160
there.
You've also written it at length

669
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,800
about opportunities that you
jumped onto.

670
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,680
And you know, Adria was a
another one you mentioned as

671
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,480
well where you said you sold out
too early and you were, you were

672
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,200
very honest with yourself in
that assessment.

673
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,880
I'd love to hear what the what
the sort of lessons and the

674
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,520
takeaways and the refinement in
your approach having, you know,

675
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,880
caught the right ones,
acknowledged that things were

676
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,760
going well and then perhaps left
a bit on the table.

677
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,800
Yeah.
Look, I mean, this is one of

678
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,000
those things that no one really
teaches you when you actually do

679
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,400
do well, you know, when you're,
when you've sort of I

680
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,160
successfully bought in at A at a
very good price and the things

681
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,360
taken off and you're sort of
sitting there and you're

682
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,600
watching sort of intraday
volatility and it's manifesting

683
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,280
through your portfolio as a
couple of years take home pay.

684
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,640
You know, you get a bit nervous
and you sort of start to think

685
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,200
like, oh, should I take some off
the table?

686
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,720
And that's, that's certainly
what happened.

687
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:57,520
What happened with me and WA 1
you know, I was I was the first

688
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,760
trade to go through, you know,
on open 22 and a half cents and

689
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,080
then topped up all the way to I
think it was 2027.

690
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:11,080
And ultimately, you know, sort
of wrote it out to to 7 dollars.

691
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,760
Well done, you know, well done.
Yeah, that was great.

692
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,920
But ultimately what, what you,
what you get to is you sort of

693
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,960
start looking at it and you sort
of start going, well, you know,

694
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,880
if it was a copper deposit, it
be easier to develop if the

695
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,360
location wasn't quite there.
Is the metal edge.

696
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,640
Are you going to work out and
all of these things?

697
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,160
It it, it looks like it's all
going to be fine, right.

698
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:37,920
And then you sort of start
thinking about the market.

699
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,040
Well, you know, it's 130,000 ton
sort of specialty market.

700
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,360
You know, how much are they
going to bring on board?

701
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,800
How's that going to transfer to
what, what the price is gonna

702
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,000
do?
And ultimately, you know, the

703
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,880
challenging thing that you you
arrive at is you start to sort

704
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,600
of develop all these doubts in
your mind, or at the very least

705
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,520
I did.
And you just sort of go, well,

706
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,400
I'm gonna cash my chips in.
I've done well.

707
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,880
And then, you know, we'll wait
for the next 1, so.

708
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,480
Yeah, what, what are I'm just
super curious to get, you know,

709
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,280
how the both of you when you see
a fit like an initial

710
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,480
announcement pop up and a lot of
announcements say new discovery,

711
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,040
but like what are the
characteristics that you really

712
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,240
look for to, to have the the the
confidence to then buy stock?

713
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,080
What's and what's the process as
well?

714
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,280
Let's start with the UCC.
Yes, certainly.

715
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,000
So I'm, I'm pretty well
acquainted with the, with the

716
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,320
ASX and I, I sort of know that
the players involved and I'm

717
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,800
familiar with the company's
histories and, and this is, this

718
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,280
is, you know, with the sub SEC
and all that.

719
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,280
It's actually been really useful
writing that out and, and taking

720
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,200
all the significant advancement
announcements from the week and,

721
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,160
and sort of putting them in a,
in a format where, you know, I

722
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,800
sort of remember him again, but
but ultimately look, you get an

723
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,200
announcement and the first thing
you think, you know, is this

724
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,040
real, right?
So you look at the images, you

725
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,680
look at the plans, you look at,
you know, how they arrived at

726
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:06,680
the targeting, you know, and
then ultimately, you know what

727
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,440
what's drilled?
Are they nearby holes?

728
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,200
Is this something that's
pre-existing that's sort of

729
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,600
being drilled from a from a
different angle?

730
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,160
And then and then ultimately,
once you once you sort of go,

731
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:21,720
OK, no, this is new, this is
real, then you start to think

732
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:25,440
about ultimately the
concentrations involved, but you

733
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,600
also just try and think about,
OK, well, what are the data

734
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,800
points can I actually use to try
and infer a volume here?

735
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:39,640
You know, so to use use WA one
as an example, you know, that

736
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,520
was a, that was a gravity
anomaly, right.

737
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,040
So they're out there looking for
Icgs dense material.

738
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,000
So as a gravity anomaly, OK,
we're going to drill it.

739
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,600
Ultimately they drilled into,
you know, a dense carbonatide

740
00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:55,000
and you know, I think the I
can't remember what the initial

741
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,360
intersect was.
I think it was like 54 meters at

742
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,520
.63 niobium pentoxide.
And then, you know, if it's a

743
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,560
weird commodity, then the first
thing you do is you convert it

744
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,880
to something you understand,
which is, you know, gold or

745
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,800
copper or whatever.
And I think at that point that

746
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,480
sort of came out to be like 5.1g
gold equivalent, you know?

747
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,640
And then straight away you go,
OK, well, this is a big deal,

748
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,400
right?
And then you you go, OK, well,

749
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,000
are there any other drill holes?
OK, there's some drill holes

750
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,080
over there that appear to have
pierced the same gravity

751
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,120
anomaly.
They're getting similar results

752
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,560
and all of a sudden you start to
go, OK, well, this could be

753
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,440
quite big.
This could be quite significant.

754
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:41,120
And, you know, in those early
stages, you get a really good

755
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,360
opportunity to, you know,
purchase it at what is, you

756
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,240
know, a price that is at that
point was very, very close to to

757
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,360
what the, I guess the initial
IPO price was.

758
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,440
But the other aspect of, of sort
of keeping track of of these

759
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,800
announcements and, and the
discoveries in particular is,

760
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,160
you know, you're it, it, it's
very honest with anyone's

761
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:13,400
capability to actually predict
where the next discovery is

762
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,200
going to come from.
And perhaps in my case, given

763
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,280
that, you know, I'm so
Australian ace eccentric,

764
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,040
everything or most things of
consequence that are happening

765
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,080
in Australia are actually
happening on the cover.

766
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,200
And in those sort of instances,
you don't have huge numbers of

767
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:35,000
data points to actually try and
interpolate and extrapolate out

768
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,680
to a discovery.
So it creates this really

769
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,280
interesting set up where in
Australia you can have all these

770
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,400
companies that have four $5
million market caps going out

771
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,080
and drilling, you know, blobs on
a geophysical image.

772
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,600
And yes, most of them will turn
out to be nothing, but some of

773
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,200
them will actually turn out to
be ore bodies.

774
00:43:55,200 --> 00:44:01,760
So you have the dual combination
of extremely low entry price and

775
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:03,800
the potential for huge
discoveries.

776
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:11,800
Touch on that feather, Vic.
I mean, what, what CC brought up

777
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:16,960
just 5 seconds ago, it's those
are examples and ASX is

778
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,320
actually, I think much is much
more abundant in these things

779
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,400
just again, because just just
because of the geology where

780
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,040
you, you genuinely don't know,
right?

781
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:34,880
But you can maybe make a watch
list for yourself or 10 to 15

782
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,360
names that you think are doing
are doing significant work and

783
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,080
significant programs that may or
may not amount to something,

784
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,680
right?
So at least you are getting

785
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,360
you're doing some work that's
going to put you ahead of the

786
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,040
hurt, right?
You don't know any, you

787
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,520
generally don't know on an
individual basis here.

788
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:56,640
So I 100% agree that in these
cases, these things are not

789
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,080
quote and forth predictable.
It's just how it is, right?

790
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:06,160
And but, but I would just take
one step back from that as well.

791
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:12,720
And CC mentioned the question of
that he asks and poses, is this

792
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:14,360
real when something happens,
right?

793
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:19,360
And what I personally like to
do, and this might just be just

794
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:26,680
again, a personal bias.
I like to do all of these work

795
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,400
in advance, right?
And, and what I, what I mean by

796
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:34,760
this is just a lot of this game
is guessing.

797
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,800
We're basically trying to guess
probabilities when they are

798
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,960
guessable, right?
Not in this case that we just

799
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,240
mentioned, but you are what
you're doing actually you are

800
00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:44,920
positioning yourself to get
lucky.

801
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:48,680
And if I, if I also may touch on
what I, what I just talk

802
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,120
regarding fund strategies and
maybe bigger portfolios and what

803
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,520
not.
There are many, I believe there

804
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,760
are many situations where many
companies that are completely

805
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,000
unloved and not, not in terms of
just not having a $20 million

806
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,160
budget to, to drill, to drill
whatever they want.

807
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,840
I mean like they're not even,
they don't even get attention.

808
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,760
Like nobody even asks them what
their ideas are, what they want

809
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,680
to do, right?
So in my mind, what, what, for

810
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,680
example, funds can do.
And this is not what, what the,

811
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,160
what the sell side in the, in
this industry does in any

812
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,960
regard, what the funds can do is
build relationships with teams

813
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:29,800
and companies where they may not
be able to get to get the

814
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,480
position immediately or want to
get a position immediately.

815
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:37,320
But you can, you can, let's say,
make make a list of 20 names

816
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,360
where you, where you see that
they're all nano caps That where

817
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,920
you see in the 20 is a stretch
at this point.

818
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,760
But let's say 20 where you can
see the real work being done, a

819
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,960
huge, huge potential, very low
valuations.

820
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,080
And they have, let's say one to
$2,000,000 financings, right?

821
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,960
So a serious fund wouldn't care,
but mining fund at that point.

822
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,160
But what if they do have do have
that, that positive catalyst?

823
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,080
If you had already built a
relationship with the guys,

824
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,200
maybe, you know, help help them
with sharing, sharing their

825
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,680
story and, and what not, then
you would be the first in line

826
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,080
to get into a financing while
they do a bigger one, right?

827
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:16,640
So that is, that is some work as
well.

828
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,560
So you're, you're positioning
yourself ahead of time and, and

829
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:23,760
I definitely believe that
there's a bunch of these

830
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,280
companies that nobody even asks
them what they do, right?

831
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,560
So that that's, that's one
thing.

832
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,160
And just on a personal level, as
I said, positioning yourself to

833
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,160
get lucky and doing, doing all
of this, all of this work in

834
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,200
advance.
And so barring from these, let's

835
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,120
say extreme examples where you
actually like, it's so deep

836
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,080
undercover that you generally
don't have an idea of what's

837
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,640
going on.
It just, it's literally just a

838
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:53,360
just a BLOB.
There are there are instances

839
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:59,080
where you can, you can have your
certain certain suspicions that

840
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,200
something could be special or
could have that could have that

841
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,600
positive answer to, to a
question that's being asked of

842
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,000
the company.
And what I mean by this is, and

843
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,560
this is very, very dependent on
location and CC may want, may

844
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:15,480
want to correct me on some of
these things, but I gave this

845
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,840
rough example in a recent
podcast as well.

846
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,560
For example, if you're looking
at and this is a mature district

847
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,480
at this point, but if you're
looking at say early stage

848
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,640
copper targets in the Carahas
district in Brazil, you wouldn't

849
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,960
consider a 5500 PPM copper
anomaly.

850
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,680
And I'm just talking about
copper soils here.

851
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,080
I know this is this is very,
very rudimentary, but let's just

852
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,160
simplify it.
You wouldn't consider A500 PPM

853
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,240
copper anomaly in soils.
That's significant.

854
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:47,600
If you talk to geos who work
there, they would tell you like

855
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,720
1000 PPM plus, which is .1% plus
in soils would be considered

856
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:53,600
something.
Hey, we should definitely drill

857
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,160
this.
It is a coherent, say 1

858
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,160
kilometer BLOB of this.
Like this could be nice.

859
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,320
But if they see 500 PPM, they're
not gonna get excited, right?

860
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,080
While on the other hand, while
on the other hand, let's say

861
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,600
that you had 500 PPM very
coherent BLOB with all the

862
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,840
following geochemical
characteristics for a porphyry

863
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,360
deposit in BC, right?
Well, you know, if you were

864
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,320
trading at say 4 million
Canadian or whatever and you

865
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,760
have that kind of a target that
had never been drilled in the

866
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:23,160
past.
By the way, this basically

867
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,640
doesn't exist in BC.
But if you had that, like what

868
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,800
would, what would be your, your
expectation of getting an

869
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,240
absolute zero from the first
safe four or five drill holes,

870
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:35,960
say first 5000 meters of
drilling on that target, right.

871
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:42,320
So again, my, my point, my point
with this is just that there are

872
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,280
situations where you can't have
your suspicions that something

873
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,400
could be, could be an oddball
among among a sea of other

874
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,560
targets.
And this, this, this pertains to

875
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:55,360
the I think it's actually
exactly what CC said regarding

876
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:56,840
the power line paradise
principle.

877
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,520
But you can, you can take this,
you can invert this and say that

878
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,800
the, the math, I mean, this is
how you go generally mining in

879
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,520
like in the whole business, not
just in the early stage

880
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,880
exploration where it is much
easier to quote, UN quote,

881
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,040
predict that something is a zero
than to predict that something

882
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:19,200
is really good, right.
So if you just had a blindfold

883
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,560
on and somebody tells you, you
have a list of 10 stocks, you

884
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,960
have no idea what they're doing.
If you say that seven of them in

885
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,160
junior mining and you say 777 of
them suck, you're probably going

886
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,040
to be right.
And so this is the very reason

887
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,840
why I think cynicists and and
the people who are just jaded

888
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,640
from losing money in mining for
years and years don't really

889
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,440
have success.
Like you need, you need to be an

890
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,120
optimist.
You need to, you need to see the

891
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,800
upside, not at all times not be
unreasonable, but you need to be

892
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,560
be, have a positive attitude,
right?

893
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:52,640
Because it's very easy to be
negative.

894
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,680
It's very easy to find flaws in
literally everything and very

895
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,880
easy to find find find reasons
for for failure, right?

896
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,000
And yeah, I, I went off on
attention there a bit, but

897
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:06,800
that's that's basically what I
think off of that.

898
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,120
Yeah, you, you have to, you have
to be really, really well tuned

899
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,920
in terms of that balance between
reality and optimism, because

900
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,120
not everything you ever see is
going to turn into a great old

901
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:24,680
body, but some of them will.
And being able to spot those

902
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:30,120
signs of, OK, this is going to
be a big ore body is a really,

903
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,080
really difficult skill to
master.

904
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:35,320
Yep.
And you know the other.

905
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:36,760
But it's global.
It's global, right?

906
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,160
You would agree that it's
global?

907
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,040
Yep.
You can get better at it.

908
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,440
I don't think you can affect it.
Because it's.

909
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:45,920
Yep.
Yep, yeah, every, every single

910
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,000
one of these discoveries just
has so much situational

911
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,240
uniqueness in it that that
they're almost uncomparable.

912
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:58,000
And and to your point earlier,
like every, every tiny

913
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,440
geochemical anomaly can in the
right circumstances be the

914
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,200
manifestation of a great ore
body.

915
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,640
You know, one of the, one of the
things that I wrote about was

916
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:12,720
the discovery of, of Gruyere
and, and the things that that

917
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:15,400
you saw there is when they went
out and, and, and did the, I

918
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:21,480
think it was the Orgagir Chem A
target South of grew air called

919
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,160
I think it was Yam 14 was
actually throwing up anomalies

920
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,880
that were much stronger than
grew air itself.

921
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,080
But in that particular
circumstance, the geologists

922
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,760
worked out that, you know, this
anomaly over grew Air was

923
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,680
actually penetrating through
they're all Permian sandstones

924
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,520
and they upgraded it much more
than they otherwise would have.

925
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,880
Then the other anomaly or
ultimately just turned out to be

926
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,200
sort of super gene enrichment
of, you know, what was low grade

927
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,040
mineralization.
So there is, there are huge

928
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,320
amounts of of sort of
situational uniqueness and and

929
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,920
that's why you kind of have to,
you know, go out and test these

930
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:02,960
targets. 100% and this is
exactly why why I said that just

931
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,800
bringing up say copper soils in
the Karaka district only that is

932
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:12,040
like a very rudimentary, you
know rough example of what I

933
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:19,280
what I meant meant meant to say
there is a you you brought up

934
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,280
you brought up what you had on
your sub stack.

935
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,880
There is something that I have
been mentioning to multiple

936
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:30,280
people, including Travis.
The first time when we talked, I

937
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:34,120
I brought up the caucus of
discovery in Namibia.

938
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:35,920
That was that was made by via
right?

939
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,760
And I think that what's, what
you, what you covered regarding

940
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,320
caucus of was I think that's a
textbook example of something

941
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,800
that was, let, let's not say
that you, you like, you couldn't

942
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:53,520
know that it was going to be say
2,000,000 + 2 million oz plus in

943
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,360
advance like or at a certain
grade like there's no way to

944
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,280
know that.
But it was very obvious that

945
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,680
there was a discovery shaping up
there before any, any, any drill

946
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:02,760
holes happened.
Absolutely.

947
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,000
So that, that would be, that
would be an example.

948
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:15,080
And there is also an, A, a very
significant gold ASX success

949
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:20,160
story that that has been, has
been progressing in Guinea, you

950
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,920
know, in West Africa.
And when you, when you

951
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,840
retroactively go go through the
data, go through the geology and

952
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,520
what the guy generated there,
you would have seen that.

953
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,120
And by the way, this discovery
was, was officially made kind of

954
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,120
before my time, but not too long
ago.

955
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,000
Obviously it's predictive
discovery right in Guinea.

956
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:43,760
And if you, if you went, if you
went through the data, yes, yes,

957
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,400
exactly.
But very, very interesting.

958
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,000
Yes, yes, 100%.
That's, that's exactly what I

959
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,840
thought when I, when I reviewed
it.

960
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,080
And I'm going to tell you in a
moment why I was reviewing it in

961
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,000
depth.
So when you go retroactively

962
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,880
through what they were doing and
how, how that was like, you

963
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,560
literally can go just news
release to news, news release

964
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,640
and you can look at the numbers,
you can look at the data.

965
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:09,360
And like it was obvious that,
that, yes, you couldn't know,

966
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,040
again, you couldn't know that
it's 5,000,005 million oz,

967
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,120
right?
But it was very obvious that

968
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,960
once you drill you, you, there's
a high probability that you

969
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,920
weren't going to, to, to get a
zero out of the horse, right?

970
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:28,200
And and if I just may give
another rudimentary example and

971
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,520
I'm I'm gonna go into a bit more
slightly more detail.

972
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,360
For example with Ivory Coast in
West Africa.

973
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,920
The general rule of thumb that I
have noticed so far is that if

974
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:43,360
you have 100 PPB, which is .1
gold .1g per ton if you have 100

975
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:47,200
PPB soil anomalism very nice
continuous yes this depends on

976
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,320
the whole struct.
This depends on the geology on

977
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,160
on the on the geological
intricacies of course.

978
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,400
But if you have that 100 PPB
anomaly, generally speaking in

979
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:59,800
West Africa right now, the
likelihood is that once you

980
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,520
drill, you're not going to be
turning out dusters, right?

981
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,840
Yes, there is still significant
risk for continuity for this

982
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:10,120
that, but you're likely not
going to be turning out dusters

983
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,120
with that kind of anomalism
tenor.

984
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:16,520
And again, I'm just simplifying
and by the way, the reason, the

985
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,400
reason why, if I may just bring
up, I'm going to bring up a

986
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,320
company, yes, I own this.
But the reason why I, I, I'm

987
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:27,040
bringing it up is exactly
because of this predictability

988
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,680
factor that we're talking about.
The reason why I was reviewing

989
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,120
predictive really in depth is
because there is a, there is a

990
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:38,280
TSX junior that is on the same
structure in West Africa, OK?

991
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,760
I'm not even going to bring up
the name that was on the same

992
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:47,120
structure in West Africa as as
Predictive's bank and project,

993
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,840
right?
And So what I was wondering, OK,

994
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,680
what, what else can I find here
that is already a success?

995
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:58,160
And I'm looking at this, it
looks quite special, but what

996
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,600
else can I find in this region,
maybe even again, on the same

997
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,600
structure that is a success
right now that I can compare the

998
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,520
data to and just just, you know,
see if I can find any, any

999
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,200
signal, extract any information
of the signal.

1000
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,240
So when I, when I reviewed
predictive and I saw the

1001
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:17,480
numbers, then I compared it to
the numbers on this other

1002
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,560
junior.
And by the way, this junior was

1003
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,920
trading the when I picked it up
for the first time, it was and

1004
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:25,880
again, I'm not bragging here.
I'm just talking about the

1005
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,120
predictability of this, right?
This was a very special

1006
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:31,120
situation.
So they were trading at 3.6

1007
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:36,320
million Canadian with a, with a
very shitty management team that

1008
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,240
run the company to the ground.
But they had a joint venture

1009
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,280
with Newmont on that project and
they had other licenses around

1010
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:46,760
that, the joint venture as well.
So if you just for a moment and

1011
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,040
by the way, we remove the
management later we fix the

1012
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:53,640
company and whatnot.
And when I say we, I had a bit

1013
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,400
of a role in that, but that's a
completely different topic.

1014
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,840
So what I'm saying with this,
when I was pitching this and

1015
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,480
trying to find people to
literally put some money in and

1016
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:07,960
first of all, get the CEO out.
I, I, I, I literally, I wasn't

1017
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,680
this aggressive, but in
hindsight, I should have been.

1018
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,880
And in the future I'm going to
be, but this was easily for me.

1019
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,880
Yes, this may sound like I'm a
moron, but 80% plus probability

1020
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,360
of making a discovery on that
license, a real discovery.

1021
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,200
Like I'm not saying 5 million oz
plus.

1022
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,880
I'm just saying something that's
going to amount to a deposit,

1023
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:27,480
right?
And there was that abundance of

1024
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,760
abundance of really strong
targets and some special factors

1025
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,200
like discovering corporate in
West Africa, which you know,

1026
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,360
hasn't, hasn't, hasn't been a
thing so far.

1027
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,680
Interestingly enough, there is
some corporate anomalism in, in

1028
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,800
Bankon's because it's, it's an
intrusion related deposit.

1029
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:47,240
There is some corporate
anomalism in Mali as well, Mali,

1030
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,520
Bismuth, that kind of stuff in
at Bankon.

1031
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,400
So these these things were very
comparable and you could see,

1032
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:55,880
you could see plenty of
similarities between Bankon

1033
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:58,840
itself and some of the targets
on this joint venture license

1034
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,000
with Newmont, right.
You've listed three companies.

1035
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,560
Yeah, for two at night, Not
between.

1036
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,040
Between Ohali, Yep, Predictive
and we are and I can.

1037
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:08,080
Think of.
OK, you're more than.

1038
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,200
Just more than just the geology.
I can think of a common

1039
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:11,520
shareholder across all three as
well.

1040
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,240
Yeah, yeah.
Look, look, you, you brought up

1041
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,600
you brought up the name.
I didn't want to say to say a

1042
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:18,280
Wally.
I don't want to overstep my

1043
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,000
welcome, right.
I don't don't like, don't like

1044
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,360
just, you know, pumping my book
too, a bit too hard.

1045
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,640
But so as I said, like that one
in my mind was was super

1046
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:29,720
predictable, right.
And what what was funny and so

1047
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,680
special about that situation?
Yes, you could say, come on,

1048
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,960
like this joint venture is super
annoying.

1049
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:43,320
Juniors don't really end up with
a lock in hand by getting into a

1050
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:44,760
partnership with a large
partner.

1051
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:50,840
But again, this was superbly
ideal situation for a especially

1052
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,760
for a small investor.
And maybe we can talk about the

1053
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,360
potential for bigger ones, but
let's not, you know, to talk

1054
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:01,080
about the Wally only.
But it was a very special

1055
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,000
situation because you would
trading at the literal 0.

1056
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,080
With somebody else spending
money on your project where you

1057
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,160
could see that there was a
discovery coming one way or

1058
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:12,920
another, right?
They already actually had

1059
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,120
discovery on one of the smaller
Southern targets, but the other

1060
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:20,800
targets were undrilled at that
point and trading at 2 million,

1061
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:22,320
two and a half million U.S.
market cap.

1062
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:24,200
That's absolutely ridiculous,
right?

1063
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,840
And that happened for other
reasons, of course, like it, it

1064
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:28,760
got run into the ground by
previous management.

1065
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:30,800
That's that's all.
That's that was also a very

1066
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:32,360
tangible problem, but it was
fixable.

1067
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,920
You know, you can, you can, you
can bend people.

1068
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:40,000
You can't bend rocks.
And I do please.

1069
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:41,640
You go, you go carve.
No.

1070
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,960
No, I was just going to say I I
really do enjoy a good

1071
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,800
exploration set up when a majors
footing the bill, you know,

1072
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,160
particularly when they're
bringing in expertise as well

1073
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:51,920
and and all of that.
So.

1074
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:55,440
In in the case of why it was
predictable that that, you know,

1075
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,400
we would have a discovery, that
predictive would have a

1076
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,960
discovery and that and that
Wiley would have a discovery.

1077
01:00:59,960 --> 01:01:03,600
Was it was it that 100 PPM
anomaly you were talking about?

1078
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,480
That's the defining feature that
is kind of like why you were so

1079
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,960
confident or are there other
other factors that were cut, you

1080
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,480
know, kind of evident I.
Think there was an alcohol that

1081
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:17,720
finished that, like 10 meters of
5g or something right?

1082
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:19,600
I can't remember what the exact
numbers were.

1083
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:22,040
CC, we are, we are talking about
banking here, right?

1084
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,040
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's 100%.

1085
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:25,880
There was another call with 5
grams plus.

1086
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,760
Yes, I I remember that.
I remember that in the data it

1087
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,920
is there was an Algar call, I
don't know how long, but a small

1088
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:38,480
call with in part in part of the
in the best part of the OR the

1089
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,720
in the bullseye of the target
there was a 5G + 1 basically

1090
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:47,320
from surface.
And and then on you know your

1091
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,240
focus in in Australia car
because of the cover, are you

1092
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:56,280
saying that the ability to have
such kind of predictive

1093
01:01:56,280 --> 01:02:00,040
capability of deposits ahead of
time is much more diminished

1094
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,440
than in Africa?
Yeah.

1095
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:08,120
I mean, it certainly varies by
the deposit type, but if we kind

1096
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:12,040
of go through, I mean, what can
we, what can we look at in the

1097
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:15,280
major, you know, the, the
lithium stuff, that was all, you

1098
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,640
know, kind of outcropping and
known about and, and whatever.

1099
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,880
So that's, that's, that's
anomalous for Australia.

1100
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:25,200
But if we, if we look at, you
know, the big goal discoveries

1101
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,560
in Australia, if we look at
Tropicana, if we look at Hemi,

1102
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:31,400
if we look at Gruyere, they're
all essentially undercover

1103
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:36,680
discoveries that were done on.
You know, it's funny when you

1104
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:40,360
when you step back and you look
at who who was involved a lot of

1105
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,720
these, you know, so I watched an
interview with with John Roski,

1106
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,120
who was talking about doing
nickel exploration and finding

1107
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,800
the Tropicana gold anomalies
back in WMC days.

1108
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:53,800
And then if you go look at the
the targeting that was done for

1109
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:58,440
grew year, he was involved and
Doug Haynes was involved as

1110
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,240
well.
So these, you know, I don't know

1111
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,400
if these names mean anything,
you guys, but they're big shots

1112
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,640
here, sort of, you know, made
previous discoveries.

1113
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:11,040
And then, you know, certainly up
in up in Hemi the likes of of Ed

1114
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:12,760
Ed Odysseus of his name.
Was.

1115
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:14,240
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1116
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,360
You know, he discovered Jundi
and I think it was a few of

1117
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:21,560
those ore bodies.
But really in all of those

1118
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:25,480
cases, it was looking at, you
know, belt scale architecture,

1119
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:31,280
picking places where you think
deposits could form, you know,

1120
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:36,000
where those spots of maximum
heat and, and thermal and, and

1121
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:37,880
hydrothermal fluid flux could
be.

1122
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:42,000
But then you had to follow it up
with with, you know, air core

1123
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,320
where, you know, you couldn't
just go over the top and, and,

1124
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:48,600
or in the case Guru air had to
be RC because you had to go

1125
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:52,240
through the cover right now.
That's, that's, you know,

1126
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:56,880
origenic gold systems where you
don't have these whopping big

1127
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:01,400
geophysical anomalies.
Certainly in, in ICGS in South

1128
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:04,800
Australia, you do have them, but
you get a lot of, you know,

1129
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:08,880
false positives.
And then it, it's sort of, it

1130
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:12,680
really does become a case of OK,
well, the cost of exploration in

1131
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:16,880
Australia is slightly higher
because you can't just go over

1132
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:19,800
the surface and collect that,
you know, soil sample and, and

1133
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,520
have that pick up an ore body.
So.

1134
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:26,480
Guys, you've been generous with
your time.

1135
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,280
We don't want to take all of
your your evening slash morning,

1136
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,720
but I do want to fire a couple
more questions that each of you

1137
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:36,320
as we sort of wrap up here.
I'll start with you book what?

1138
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:39,200
What are some of the regions or
a region you're particularly

1139
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:44,000
excited by at the moment?
It's funny, I literally wrote

1140
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,800
the wrote the short list of
countries I was interested in

1141
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,440
last night.
So that, that's, that's a very

1142
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:55,960
interesting question.
I would say Ivory Coast, OK, but

1143
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:57,560
there everybody knows about that
already.

1144
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:03,160
I think Colombia if the next
year's early next year's

1145
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:08,040
election goes in our favor,
quote UN quote is gonna get very

1146
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,120
interesting.
There is a very nice success

1147
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:14,840
story going on there.
I don't own it, but as a country

1148
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:20,320
I think Colombia, PNG, nobody
cares about PNG right now.

1149
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:22,280
It's very prospective.
There are things to be done

1150
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,840
there.
There is some junior activity

1151
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:34,640
picking up.
There is Guinea, Guinea, you can

1152
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:37,440
surely say Zambia, but Zambia is
really tough for juniors.

1153
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:42,920
Argentina as well.
Also I think underrated how

1154
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:45,600
tough it is for juniors.
But let's say Argentina as well

1155
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:49,720
if if the recent Malay scandal
doesn't blow out of proportion.

1156
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,520
And yeah, let's let's leave it
to that.

1157
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:58,760
That's a that's a good bunch to
to look at and say, say outside

1158
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:01,320
of the the mighty Australia,
anything catching your eye at

1159
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,480
the moment?
Oh, no, I was going to say WA

1160
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:07,240
got to be WA.
You find a big wool body, you

1161
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,560
can turn it into mine.
There's a good regulatory

1162
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:12,080
framework.
I mean, you know, market process

1163
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:15,080
it at a premium.
But you know, apart from that

1164
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:20,360
one, one, I'm looking at
Northern Norway, There's a

1165
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,880
company there that doesn't
release too many announcements

1166
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:30,120
that is in with with BHP and
they're doing, yeah, they're

1167
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,080
doing very nice.
Yeah.

1168
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:36,200
No, I mean, they've, they've
sort of gone through the the

1169
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:40,360
process of going from producer
to explorer, which is kind of

1170
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:44,320
the opposite of.
But anyway, now look, I mean,

1171
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:46,880
they're they're doing excellent
exploration from what I can

1172
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:48,320
tell.
And it's all, you know, big

1173
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:50,920
target, big boy stuff that BHP
is funding.

1174
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:55,240
So start looking at that.
Speaking, Speaking of majors,

1175
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,040
maybe bring up Kazakhstan there
as well.

1176
01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:01,200
We we had recently the news of
Robert Field and going going

1177
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:05,120
into Kazakhstan with Ivan Ho, so
not as controlling anymore.

1178
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,280
Everyone's everyone's pretty
excited about Kazakhstan these

1179
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,120
days, I find.
Agree.

1180
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:12,080
Yeah, I.
Think one more for for you.

1181
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:16,040
You've obviously made-up a
phenomenal amount of ground

1182
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:19,360
without having done a a
university education in in

1183
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,840
geology.
Have you got a sort of a book at

1184
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:26,080
all kind of hack about how you
got up to speed with geology

1185
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:28,960
that was, you know, really,
really something that stood out

1186
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:33,480
from the pack?
I'm actually not sure.

1187
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,440
I'm very happy to share my
geology folder with anybody who

1188
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,200
might ask for it.
But there are books in there,

1189
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:41,720
there are graphics, there's a
lot of stuff.

1190
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:46,720
So the way I approach this is
more kind of mosaic piercing

1191
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:50,800
together a mosaic and a shotgun
approach of looking at and a

1192
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,680
brute force approach to be
honest, where I was literally

1193
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:56,280
reading technical reports and
news releases until I was able

1194
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:58,160
to figure out what it actually
says, right?

1195
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:03,160
But if somebody actually has
absolutely no clue, I would

1196
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:07,680
start from going on YouTube
finding there are some very

1197
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:12,680
basic geology video series or
say basic quote and quote the

1198
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:15,480
course going through that in
detail.

1199
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:21,439
That's step number one.
Step #2 is there is a Sprott

1200
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:26,479
series on ore bodies.
It's called I think or, or or

1201
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:27,960
body formation or something like
that.

1202
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,800
Yeah, that's it covers the yeah.
So there is a Sprott series.

1203
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:32,319
Or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1204
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:33,399
Correct.
Yes, and it's free.

1205
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:35,240
That's on YouTube.
So that's number two.

1206
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:41,880
And also perhaps with with
regards, if I, if I may, pun

1207
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:46,080
intended, pump somebody else's
book by Tom Woolwich's book on

1208
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:47,680
on basic geology.
That's a good one.

1209
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:51,520
We'll have a plug of Tommy
Warridge Travel show up now, but

1210
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,160
it's got a great time.
Behind me it's right here.

1211
01:08:54,279 --> 01:08:57,240
There you go, Tom by the book.
Someone told me they bought it

1212
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:59,479
after watching Tom on the party
and they read it to their son.

1213
01:09:00,279 --> 01:09:01,680
My son came interested in
geology.

1214
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:03,760
That's a very happy story.
That's beautiful.

1215
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:05,680
So you see one more for you
mate.

1216
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,560
What's the sort of biggest towel
as you see people without the

1217
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:12,640
Geo background making sure
you've sort of spent a bit of

1218
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:15,960
time on on Twitter or hot copper
throughout your education sort

1219
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:18,040
of process?
And is there a glaring mistake

1220
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:22,800
you think people kind of make
that you know can can be learnt

1221
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:26,640
from?
I, I think it's really important

1222
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:31,160
to, to know where some, some
medals come from, right?

1223
01:09:31,399 --> 01:09:36,680
Because you know, there's been a
lot of buzz about, you know,

1224
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,399
critical medals and, and things
like that.

1225
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:46,880
And a lot of them are actually
sourced from byproducts of

1226
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,800
smelter slags and, and, you
know, things like that.

1227
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:54,640
And I think, I think people kind
of that that should be a first

1228
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:58,000
step when you, when you start
thinking about a metal, just

1229
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:01,080
find out where it's actually
coming from because you know,

1230
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:05,120
there's, there's a lot of
there's a lot of metals that are

1231
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:08,160
actually produces byproducts and
not necessarily as primary

1232
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:11,360
mines.
And if you then start looking at

1233
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:15,520
those, you, you, you start to
realize that, well, you know,

1234
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,000
let's say we look at this
critical metal over here and

1235
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:19,640
then there's elevated
concentrations.

1236
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:24,160
Well, yeah, OK.
If that was to be put into, put

1237
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:28,600
into production on the basis of
a, of a primary zinc or a copper

1238
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,600
or something like that, then the
mine likely wouldn't actually

1239
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,320
get anything for it.
I mean, that's, that's the most

1240
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:36,320
obvious sort of own goal that I
see out there.

1241
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:40,520
But the other part of it is, is
just sort of understanding, you

1242
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:45,600
know, how much of A given
commodity or deposit type is

1243
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:49,800
actually a mine and how much of
it is actually a chemical plant,

1244
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:53,040
right?
Because if you're wanting to go

1245
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:56,080
out there and educate yourself
about geology, but you're

1246
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:59,720
dealing with something where the
majority of the margin and the

1247
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:03,760
majority of the smarts involved
is actually, you know, all in

1248
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,400
chemical processes, then you're
probably looking in the wrong

1249
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:10,800
space.
So it's a a great bit of advice

1250
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:15,200
to to end on carp.
Want to thank yeah, the both of

1251
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:19,240
you so much for for for joining.
You can find find Ferguson on on

1252
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:22,080
Twitter.
You should post a lot and and

1253
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:24,280
you can find Crimson carp on on
sub stack.

1254
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:26,680
We'll put the links to both in
in the description.

1255
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:31,560
Any parting words gents?
No absolute pleasure.

1256
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:33,360
Thank you so much for for having
me.

1257
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:35,640
Not really, guys.
Thank you for having us.

1258
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:37,000
Yes.
Wicked.

1259
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:38,320
Thanks a lot guys.
This has been great.

1260
01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:40,160
Good route.
There we go, gents.

1261
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:44,320
A exploration bonanza, Maddie.
Oh mate, I've got to stop doing

1262
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:48,200
the outros without listening to
the fucking episode, but I, I

1263
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:51,160
will, I will, because that
sounds right up my alley.

1264
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:55,040
Listen, all you need to know
Maddie is when you start a mine

1265
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:58,040
after you have a massive
exploration success to use

1266
01:11:58,440 --> 01:12:02,600
Grounded for your site to use
MMS to move any dirt that you

1267
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,960
want to use sandy ground
support.

1268
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:09,560
Once that goes underground, use
CRE insurance from the from the

1269
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:12,040
beginning right to the end.
Just sleep easy at night.

1270
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:13,840
K drill.
You'll be using them in your

1271
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:20,320
exploration stage.
WA water balls to rest all your

1272
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,040
your water worries.
Put them all to bed.

1273
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:24,320
Just put them all to bed.
Use WA water balls.

1274
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:28,560
You can use an exploration side
if you don't use them.

1275
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:32,920
Swig swig.
Yeah, underground drilling, you

1276
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,040
want to kick on, you want to
find that next door body swig is

1277
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:38,400
the go to.
Just about 18,000,000 meters.

1278
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:41,040
Drilled the team there.
Not yet confirmed, but on the

1279
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,040
way.
On the way on the way Botro

1280
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:47,120
project engineering, these are
the go to whatever sort of paste

1281
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:48,760
you want to be a paste.
They're the go to name in

1282
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:51,520
designing the pace plants.
They could.

1283
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:55,000
They can do anything cross
boundary energy mines don't run

1284
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:56,960
without power.
No, and when you make shit loads

1285
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:59,600
of money out of mining, don't
waste it.

1286
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:03,080
Save 100 bucks off yours on them
Underground operators tickets.

1287
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:05,520
There we go, don't give it away
right there.

1288
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:06,600
Rd.
Rd.

1289
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:09,080
That's the longest outro I've
ever done.

1290
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,880
Information contained in this
episode of Money of Mine is of

1291
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:16,960
general nature only and does not
take into account the

1292
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:20,560
objectives, financial situation
or needs of any particular

1293
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:22,600
person.
Before making any investment

1294
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,640
decision, you should consult
with your financial advisor and

1295
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:28,800
consider how appropriate the
advice is to your objectives,

1296
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,000
financial situation and needs.