Ellison Speaks. What Really Matters for MinRes Now?

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Righto buddy miners.
The most bloody publicised AGM

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in freaking probably AGM
histories in the mining industry

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happened today.
Live feeds on the bloody news

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platforms and obviously you two
boys attended the men res AGM

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Chris Ellison back in the back
in the camera, facing the music.

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In a way, I think old James and
Clements would be a bit worn out

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after today.
He took the whole thing, pretty

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much.
Prime time, wasn't it, Maddie?

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What was the vibe like in the
room?

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Take us into the room.
Well, before you get in the

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room, a lot, a lot of media, a
lot of cameras, you know, like

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you're gonna see some superstar
athletes or something when you

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walk in the whole, I mean, I
guess we're part of the media as

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well.
But there's cameras, cameras and

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you know, heaps of journos
unlike any AGM that I've been

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to, not that I've been to
thousands of them, but yeah, I

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mean, there was a, there was a
pretty pumped up sort of feeling

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you got the got the impressions,
chatting with people beforehand,

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shareholders and other people
sort of interested, you know,

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investors and the like.
They were.

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They were pretty excited for
this one.

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It was, it was nuanced, I'd say,
Maddie, Like it was, there were

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like there were a lot of
visitors.

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There are a lot of shareholders
and like, yeah, it's a

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polarising stock.
And there was just like you were

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either emphatically progress or
you didn't clap to any of the

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parts where people claps.
It was just, it was just, you

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know, yeah, that's how I would
describe it.

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Yeah, yeah, we'll go.
We'll we'll get into next Gen

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after Min raised.
By the way, hold on uranium

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bulls, but we're.
Going on that one too.

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Leave the big, big news.
So anyway, we'll lay down Ali J.

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So Ding, Ding, Ding for the
JCETF bloody right.

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Where do we, where do we want to
take it away?

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What did you get from the
Prezza?

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And then we'll, we'll give our
individual takes on the whole

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thing.
It's like independent views

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within an independent podcast.
Yeah.

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Yeah, that's it.
I mean, I think we should sort

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of spell it out to people.
Obviously a lot of people

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working away wouldn't have had
time to to tune in and just get

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a feel for it.
So it was pretty long.

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So James Mccammon's came and
addressed.

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He spoke for a while.
You had a couple brief

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presentations from the the two
new directors that came on

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earlier this year, 1 early this
year, one late last year.

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Ellison gave a segment on the
business after addressing the

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you know, everything that's
happened in the last four or

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five weeks.
Lion it's probably It was

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interesting because it was his
first verbal display since all

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this has happened.
Let's play it now.

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I think firstly let me follow on
from James and I'd like to talk

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about the issues that are spread
across the news.

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Many years ago I was a partner
in a private company and made a

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judgement error with reporting
of personal tax.

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I later went on to self report
it.

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Subsequently I paid the
penalties interest in tax and

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that was that was all due and
payable.

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So I put that behind me and
there is, I deeply regret the

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impact this has had on the
business and our people.

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I can't stress enough how much I
hate what I've done and I'm one

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of a dark cloud in my life that
I'll live with forever.

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But regardless, I want everyone
to know I deeply regret that,

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that error and judgement that I
made back there.

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I want to assure the
shareholders also, as James

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said, that any personal expenses
I've ever had in the business

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have always been paid for by
myself and always repaid, repaid

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promptly.
Looking back, I accept things

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could have been and should have
been a lot different,

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particularly around corporate
governance.

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There's no question of that.
We grew rapidly, particularly

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over the last five years.
But I've got a great board.

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They've put those measures in
place.

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I've got a very experienced,
diverse board that know exactly

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what to do.
Those measures are in place now.

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I've made some mistakes along
the way.

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I own those mistakes and I'm
standing here.

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I take full responsibility for
them.

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That won't change.
Here we go, the first time we've

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seen it since him in the in the
flesh since all this has

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happened.
Would you make of it, Maddie?

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I you can, my take was like, you
could tell there's scripted

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components, but you can tell
when he wasn't reading about how

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much he hates what he did and
the cloud that'll he'll add for

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the rest of his life over it.
So that I take that as sincere

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and you can tell he's fronted up
to go on beyond this point for

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the business and the
shareholders.

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That's my take.
Yeah, Chris, clearly, you know,

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Minres means the word to him and
it's not the the actions

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specifically, but it's what this
has done to to the brand, to the

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name, the scrutiny that it's
drawn that has clearly, clearly

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worn at him and, you know, done
a number on him.

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And I, I I felt that was pretty
heartfelt from him.

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I think he, you know, is not,
not at all pleased with what

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what's going on and the, the
attention that that's brought

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to, to mins.
Yeah.

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Different different
interpretation as the events

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feel it's all the same thing.
But my mum always taught me to

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say sorry I'm sorry, not I
regret doing it.

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She said make sure you say I'm
sorry if you are sorry and and

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that was a notable absence.
I also just think is does he

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regret doing it or does he
regret getting caught?

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Yeah, that, I mean that ties
into dragging the the brand

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through through the mud or
actually the the actions itself.

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And yeah, that's I'm sure
everyone will have a sort of

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slightly different
interpretation on how, on how

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that sort of went down.
What was noticeable though after

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that and after he gave the
business update the the round of

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applause in the room there.
You clearly, you know, the

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majority were with Chris
Ellison.

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They were on his side.
They have as many of them spoke

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in the in the Q&A, in the
comments section.

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Love what he's done for the
business and want him to to

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continue on.
Yeah.

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Well, I'll play a few of them
later, but you can we can go

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through everything prior to that
because there's there's there's

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two sides to it.
There's all the questions that

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were asked about everything
that's been in the media.

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But then there's the other side
of the there was shareholders

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and questions that were
advocating on the other side for

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what he's done and what they
want him to do in the future.

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So.
Yeah, and one thing we've missed

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here as well is just like James
Mcclements took control of this

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meeting, He he hasn't taken
control of the min res Agms in

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the past that I I'm I'm aware
of, but he'd like so he answered

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every single question.
The Q&A, he gave a massive

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address at the beginning and it
was basically almost entirely

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scripted stuff.
It seemed like it seemed like it

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flowed or didn't feel like he
was reading something, but and

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he was always making eye contact
with the audience.

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But, but you know, he, he played
a very big role in, in the

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meeting today and, and, and
Chris was sort of, I think

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intentionally positioned to be,
you know, the, the side showing

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to the extent they could control
that as well.

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Yeah, definitely.
So.

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So how do we think gents about
the the board's actions?

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You're obviously, you know,
you're in the room or you're

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watching it and you can see the,
the whole board in front of you.

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And obviously a couple of them
presented as well.

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But in some of their comments,
you know, they, they have taken

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on a bit more than they thought
they were taken on when they

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stepped on this board has taken,
like they said, a lot of their

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time in the last one to two
months, a lot of them obviously

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being on, on numerous other
sorts of boards.

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How do they look coming out of
this?

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What do you guys reckon on on
that sort of point?

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What prior to this or from when
the actions got put in place?

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From the actions they've taken
since all the the news surfaced.

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Well, as I clearly, Mcclements
clearly states daylight even

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though the the information came
to light two years ago like that

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wasn't, I know they kept up and
on about the material nature of

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it, but it's there was obviously
investigations in place that

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weren't concluded yet and they
can't release information until

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they've got firm evidence of
everything proofed is that?

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Strange to you?
Like, yeah.

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I see, I see where they come
and. 1/2 years ago they got

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information and they still talk
about needing to Get the facts.

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Like we've all had kind of
negative surprises in our life

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from time to time where you've
got to do some digging to figure

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out what's going on.
It only take 2 1/2 years.

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You can't.
You've got no proof of putting a

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timeline on that.
They say to another has say mid

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2022 and then at another point
in the meeting they referenced

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late in 23 is when a bigger
chunk of news came to it.

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I mean, if I'm on the board, I'm
interrogating the shit out of

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what's just been brought to me.
Because your name is Yeah,

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here's a.
Party tech firm, you must give

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complete access to every single
email that has ever been sent to

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this company.
And then like, you know, you

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don't have to manually read them
all, but there's a this stuff

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doesn't take 2 1/2 years.
Like that's a strange timeline

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in my opinion.
Yeah, I can't get past that.

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So I can't look at like, I think
they're in damage control.

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They've done kind of like, well
to control the narrative in

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this, in this scenario, but I
can't get over the fact that

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information was revealed 2 1/2
years ago and it was the, you

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know, the, IT came to light not
from a, a, a disclosure from the

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company, but came to light from
the media.

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And that pulls back to one of
the questions that was asked,

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which was essentially saying,
would you have come out and said

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all of this stuff if the media
hadn't reported it and the

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question was batted off with a
pretty straight bat.

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I didn't get a a clear answer on
yes or no there.

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I'm not sure if you guys
interpreted that one any

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differently.
Yeah.

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But the one I wanted more
clarity on which they really

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batted off was the was the Kelly
Metals one.

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Yeah, which and it was a lot of
that was more related to the

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indirect relationships
personally with all the

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shareholders.
We were talking with a

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shareholder at the end of the
meeting, Maddie, and, and he

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referenced that one
specifically.

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And he's supportive, supportive
of career, supportive of the

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company.
And he's like the most damning,

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the most damning of everything
is the Kelly Metals.

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And that's the one I can't wrap
my head around.

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Yeah, yeah.
And they were sort of saying to

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the effect that they'd stopped
staff from selling afterwards,

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but.
They weren't the people ticket

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item.
Yeah, on the yeah, that there

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and that that's probably the one
on oh, that's the one that

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sticks out to me the most for
the for the whole history, to be

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honest, just and we highlighted
that when it happened as well.

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So that's probably one that's
just going to get swept under

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the rug in.
The future, I think so I think

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like I mean ASIC, ASIC said that
they've initiated and

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preliminary inquiries.
I think, I think that's in

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relation to that, yeah.
I think you're right.

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And that might also tie in with
how the news that came out on

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Wildcat it, it could be while I
don't know when, but I'd imagine

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Asik was pulling that in with
the perspective of looking at

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Mints, not Wildcat.
But that is a a rough guess from

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the outside.
We don't really know what's

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going on.
But yeah, I mean, I think Mints

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would be very happy to to not
have that one.

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Brought up again, but we sort of
see those are gonna affect that

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the Cali metals thing 'cause
they, what are, what are they,

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they're trying, they, they've
got to obviously try and prove

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that OK, all these, all these
shareholders were given

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allocation preferentially in
this IPO by who?

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It's not just that, it's like,
did they did they want to buy

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the IPO with direct knowledge
that min res would buy on market

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the next day and push the share
price high?

224
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:26,280
Yeah.
And then that's the thing.

225
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,720
That's front running.
Right, Oh yeah, it and that's

226
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:33,000
like how they how how if they
proved that, but that's that's

227
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,720
what the yeah, pretty blind,
blind Freddie can't would say

228
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,400
that that is the allegation
here.

229
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:40,920
Yeah.
I mean, we'll see.

230
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,680
We'll see if there was any
emails on that front, although

231
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:47,480
emails were deleted in the past
on on other things.

232
00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,000
So who knows where that one kind
of goes.

233
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,080
Before we get into some of the
other questions, there was a few

234
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,040
other that came to chat about,
but there were a few other

235
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,440
comments that Chris made in his
segment that I thought were kind

236
00:11:58,440 --> 00:11:59,960
of interesting.
I'm sure we'll touch on the

237
00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:02,960
balance sheet in a moment.
But again, he said this time of

238
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,520
the year people will be saying
what was the problem or sort of

239
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,760
what was the fuss with the
balance sheet?

240
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,200
Again, that sort of rhetoric
that stood out to me and one

241
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,080
other one which I thought was a
bit funny, talking about how

242
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,640
these guys still deliver fixed
price contracts, their mining

243
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,120
services and their builds, you
know, and we're one of the last

244
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,080
businesses to do fixed price
contracts.

245
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,160
Other contractors have gone soft
and fluffy, hence costs get

246
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:28,720
blown out and things don't get
delivered.

247
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,880
So that was another one that
kind of stood out to me at

248
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,480
least.
Any other components from from

249
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,880
what Chris said or should we
jump into the AQ and a guys?

250
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,240
There was.
There was one, one slide in

251
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,120
Chris's address which looked
very new to me.

252
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,440
And when it, when it popped up,
I'm like squinting, I can't say

253
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,920
too well, but I was squinting
to, to make sense of the slide

254
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,960
and I realised I could put up my
phone and do it better.

255
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,000
But it was slide 12 in the AGM
deck.

256
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,200
And it's actually, I think it's
a very fucking important slide

257
00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,080
to be honest.
So it's it's the Onslow Minarez

258
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,480
kind of EBITDA bridge.
Last time we saw this chart, it

259
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,960
looked like this in the in the
half year results and I've been

260
00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,560
kind of banging my head on this
chart because I couldn't get the

261
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:13,520
numbers to work with the
assumptions sort of provided in

262
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,560
the footnotes.
It's two big issues I took

263
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:18,040
looking at the old one.
The first one is you can't get

264
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:24,320
that number US 1.053 billion in
in EBITDA to pop out from the

265
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:29,160
assumptions in the footnotes.
You can get the Aussie 1.053

266
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,000
billion EBITDA to pop out
though.

267
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:33,720
So I'm doing it in the
spreadsheet.

268
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,440
I'm trying to make it all work.
And that was the only, the only

269
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,560
way I could do it.
And so I thought there's a

270
00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:39,200
currency era here, Not that I
should be critical.

271
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,040
I've been a currency era on
minerals before in the past.

272
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:46,880
But you know, it's a slide deck.
And the second issue I had was I

273
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,440
put in the director special 2
days ago.

274
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,200
The footnote said royalties of
9.5%.

275
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,920
You can kind of see I
highlighted it there, but we

276
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,440
know about royalties adding up
to 10.75% being the Red heel

277
00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,120
Lion 0.75%, Taurus 2.5% that
bought that off Anglo earlier

278
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,880
this year, and the state
government royalty of 7.5%.

279
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:06,520
Yeah.
Just just quickly for those

280
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,880
listening in, what you've just
sort of shown is an an older bar

281
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:15,960
chart showing 1 billion.053 in
EBITDA in U.S. dollar terms in

282
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,760
an old deck.
And then the deck that comes out

283
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,720
today shows that same figure in
Aussie dollars.

284
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,080
Yeah, they fixed the title and
said Aussie millions, which is

285
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,240
what I thought it was.
Both of the concerns have been

286
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,040
addressed in this new EBITDA
bridge.

287
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,680
The currency is now AUD which I
thought it should have been and

288
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:34,560
you can see the footnotes there.
It's now expanded to say 9.5%

289
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,240
life of mine average royalties.
And that's, that's actually an

290
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,240
important, an, an important
point because because the, the,

291
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,280
it's, it's, it's 10.75% in the
early, earliest phase of mining,

292
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,240
I think the first at least
couple of years, the tourist

293
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,200
royalty is applying to the, you
know, the Ken's Boy area, where

294
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:52,760
they're where they're mining
from at the moment.

295
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,680
The tourist royalty doesn't
apply to every single tenement.

296
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,760
Whereas the Red Hill and the
state government obviously do do

297
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,280
apply.
But what we care about is the

298
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,600
early years, right?
That's when you have fragility.

299
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,160
So yeah, it's good, good to get
an expansion on that.

300
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,880
Good to get the chart fixed, but
you know they've, they've also

301
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,680
included for our benefit in this
updated chart and the EBITDA to

302
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,200
min res associated with the
whole road and the mining

303
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,280
services contract too, which is
super helpful.

304
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:22,400
So you've got 2280 from mining
services and 144,000,000 Aussie

305
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,520
from, from the, from the whole
Rd.

306
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,000
That's per per annum regardless
of the spot price, right.

307
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,560
But you know, an analyst I think
also needs to sense check the

308
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,480
other assumptions in the
footnotes here too.

309
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,080
This is the, in my opinion, like
we talk with the governance, we

310
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,280
talk all of that sort of stuff.
But when I'm like, when I'm at

311
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,720
the AGM and I'm like, what's the
new information here?

312
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,360
I care so much about the, the,
the economics of this project

313
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,720
that determines everything.
Like that's, is it a buyer or is

314
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,520
it a seller?
It's it's this slide.

315
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,920
This slide is what whether it's
means is a buyer a sale.

316
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:56,120
In my opinion, this this is this
like the price discount for

317
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,160
grading impurities on their on
their product they put in the

318
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,960
footnotes.
There is is 15% and I question

319
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,040
the reasonableness of that
because I went to Min Reza's own

320
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,480
reserve statement on the project
and you can say that, you know,

321
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,760
the reserve statement assumes a
life of mine, you know,

322
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,800
deduction of of 18.6% instead of
15%.

323
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,200
Another really important detail
that's that's absent is a detail

324
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,920
you'll find inside Minreza's
disclosure documents.

325
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,360
When they they did the big debt
offering to to the US

326
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,200
bondholders.
It's really hard to get hold of

327
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,080
these documents, by the way, but
I managed to get hold of, yeah,

328
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,960
the, the documents that they had
to disclose to the US bond

329
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,200
investors.
And here I'll, I'll bring it up.

330
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,400
But we all know that, you know,
Baru gets at least 50% and up to

331
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:45,200
75% of Minreza's share of iron
ore out of Onslow, but you might

332
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,360
not know that Bastille is
entitled to a discount of 2.5%

333
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,920
on that iron ore that it takes
for its own use.

334
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,320
So it's like it's kind of like
another punitive kind of royalty

335
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,160
on top of the, you know, the
price received for min res on

336
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,720
its product in some ways when
you think about the lower price,

337
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,960
because Bower is entitled to a
discount.

338
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,280
And then then you've got to
stress test the other

339
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,359
assumptions that are actually
provided to, I think should you

340
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,800
assume a linear realisation
percentage as price goes lower

341
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,440
or is that going to kind of get
more severe?

342
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,599
Should you assume US 9 bucks per
wet metric done shipping is the

343
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:19,720
right number?
What about FX sensitivity?

344
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,640
What if, what if costs are a
fair bit north of of you know,

345
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,880
45 bucks per tonne FoB in the
end, like they say they're gonna

346
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,600
be moisture of 8%.
They, they assume there, but the

347
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,400
reserves, they say 8.8%.
What if getting 35,000,000

348
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,800
tonnes per annum is, is
constrained in some, some way?

349
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,120
We don't, we don't know that yet
until they kind of get there.

350
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,160
What further deductions could be
applicable to the ore if it

351
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,400
doesn't meet the impurities
thresholds set by Bawu in the

352
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,360
offtake, which I found, I found
this detail in the reserve

353
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:50,800
statement looking specifically
at the alumina content.

354
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,360
It's extremely close to the
project reserve.

355
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:55,960
So you can see these thresholds
in the, in the Bowery offtake

356
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,720
contract, you've got to have a
Lumina less than 3.5%.

357
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,240
That's super close to the, to
the, you know, the percentage of

358
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,600
Illuminate in the reserves of
the Onslaught project.

359
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,280
And there's a whole bunch of
deposits and I think there's

360
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,480
only like 2 deposits that have
lower than that.

361
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,360
But you know, on a great tonnage
curve, you can selectively got

362
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:13,720
to get stuff that meets it.
You know, I'm not saying Bow we

363
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,800
won't take it, they'll take it,
but there'll be more deductions

364
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,960
if you don't meet the
contractual thresholds, right?

365
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,080
So just like forget all the
governance and all of the media

366
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,320
speculative stuff for the
moment, if you're savvy about

367
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,440
this stock, this is what you've
got to focus on.

368
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,080
In my opinion, the right
question to ask is what is min

369
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,400
res's all in cash flow, break
even iron ore price at Onslow.

370
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,840
That's the that's the most
important thing to figure it

371
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,320
out, in my opinion.
Yeah, who would have thought

372
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,160
their success will be on
commodity prices for a mining

373
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,840
company?
Absolutely.

374
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,080
That's what it, that's what it
comes down to iron ore and of

375
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,480
course you know lithium as well.
Big one there, so.

376
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,080
It's more more leveraged iron
ore, do you believe, than a

377
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,120
lithium turn around with what
they've got at the moment if

378
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,520
Bald Hill was operating still.
I think they're more leveraged

379
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,920
to iron ore, but I think the
stock moves more to lithium,

380
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:00,960
yeah.
What's that?

381
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:02,480
Don't know.
I think it's just like that.

382
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,440
Sentiment.
Yeah, yeah.

383
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:11,600
And probably the A margin thing
like because lithium like.

384
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,640
If you lose a.
Lot when they're losing money on

385
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,560
lithium, effectively.
Like fucking talk about talk

386
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:18,960
when you're losing money to
something.

387
00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:24,360
Time the Q&A kind of it kicked
off with you could you could

388
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,080
tell there were these pre
submitted questions by which we

389
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,920
read out initially.
And then you can see James

390
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,200
Mcclements just kind of get into
rhythm answering those those

391
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,440
questions and you could see
scripted they were all scripted.

392
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,520
They they were, they were
largely all directed at the

393
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,320
governance things and they they
were, they were basically a

394
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,000
scripted response to those
questions which gave I think

395
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,360
James Mcclements ammo in
subsequent questions.

396
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:48,840
To say I've already answered
this question, refer back.

397
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,960
They're 100% that's what they
were trying to do.

398
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,040
Group them together and say
we've addressed that.

399
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,240
Don't have to speak to it.
I mean, to, to their sort of

400
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,240
benefit, they did hear at
everyone.

401
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,840
You know, we, we thought maybe
they'll just sort of cut it

402
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,240
short that that wasn't the case.
They heard at everyone, but you

403
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,440
know, it was James McLean
answering every single question

404
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,520
and they did bat off.
Heaps of them are the ones that

405
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,480
sort of stood out.
This one, I'm sure that to you

406
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,040
guys as well was a question on
Chris Ellison's personal

407
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,400
leverage.
We got no insight to what the

408
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,360
actual answer was.
At all, James Clement said.

409
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:26,800
You know, it's not his position
to talk about Ellisons personal

410
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,000
financial dealings, but I
thought that was a a super

411
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,160
interesting question.
We've seen it with, you know,

412
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,800
mining moguls if you like in
Australia in the past where

413
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,600
leverage has has brought them
crashing down.

414
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,040
Short sellers have piled on the
stock 'cause they see it coming,

415
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:46,000
the lenders take the stock, you
know, they don't really want it,

416
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,120
all these sorts of things.
So that was it.

417
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:50,760
But like you gotta like he's
been fucking doing this for 30

418
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,680
odd years.
Like he was getting a salary as

419
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,680
well.
Like there it was like that.

420
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,840
That's his stock value they were
talking about.

421
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,800
And like as he used that to let
margin to leverage other stuff.

422
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,640
But it's hard to you can't dig
into his personal finances.

423
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,600
Like considering he's been
getting a pretty good fucking

424
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,120
salary for the whole time he's
been running min rez, I'm sure a

425
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,160
lot of that went to personal
science.

426
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,080
You can't, and obviously that.
Didn't tend to be more, but

427
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,200
yeah, then there's like the the
other related party stuff, but

428
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,080
there's also like, does it
matter to you as a shareholder

429
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,840
if there's if like, let's say
there's a certain threshold

430
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,320
where you could get margin code,
Would you want to know what that

431
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,560
threshold is?
Is that the question you want to

432
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,400
know the answer?
I, I agree it's probably a bit

433
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,280
of, you know, a breach of like
what's what's you're allowed to

434
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:33,760
ask.
But of all the questions that

435
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,840
got asked, he wanted to answer
that one the most.

436
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,240
You could see he was like he and
the James sort of, you know,

437
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,920
said no, I've got this like,
yeah, but he was killing to

438
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,560
answer that question himself,
whether it was to to to show off

439
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,360
the the the questioner for the
asking the question or if it was

440
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,640
to answer it, you know, I don't.
Know, and my take on that one

441
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:58,960
is, is manager like there's the
select few MD's and CEOs in

442
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,200
history that you could nearly
put your fucking all your money

443
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,720
on that, that never sell a
share.

444
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,440
And it's these these some of
these founder ones that go

445
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,120
forever.
You'd bet your bottom dollar

446
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,360
they don't want to sell a share.
That is that is how they run the

447
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:14,960
business.
That's how they they just don't

448
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,960
sell shares.
He has some shares in the IPO.

449
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,480
There was a a a shareholder sell
down component of that.

450
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,960
Oh, back, but yeah.
Oh, OK, but not privately.

451
00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:26,080
Like are you talking before it
went public?

452
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,920
In the process of becoming a
public company, there was an IPO

453
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,720
proceeds cash in the company but
also a shareholder sell down of

454
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,880
the shareholders at the time.
Yeah, but while it's been

455
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,840
public, never, never sold a
share.

456
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,640
I don't know if that's
necessarily 100% true, but yeah.

457
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,400
That notable sell down anyway
so.

458
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,040
Yeah.
The couple other questions that

459
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,120
stood out to me was on the
energy assets.

460
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,040
There was a good few
shareholders that were pretty

461
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,040
rolled up saying you've sold
these too cheap.

462
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,280
That sort of stood out to me and
the company essentially saying

463
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,320
there was no way we could meet
any of the CapEx requirements

464
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,480
given the position we're in.
We we had to get rid of them and

465
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,400
you know, it appealed to
swallow, but there was no way

466
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,800
around that from the company's
perspective.

467
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,200
Another sort of group of
questions that stood out also

468
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,520
addressed in the statements that
they gave was around the

469
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,920
Northern Gateway.
This sort of thing around bulls

470
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,680
broke this industrial area that
made the media on Friday last

471
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,360
week, no apology from the
company.

472
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,760
They believe that is firmly in
their, you know, commercial

473
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,480
responsibility to look after the
future of the business.

474
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,680
They said that wasn't a related
party transaction taking it from

475
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,560
Goldman.
So we didn't see any response to

476
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,760
the media earlier this week
after the article broke last

477
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,320
Friday.
So it's good to get a bit more

478
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,640
colour after we've learned a bit
more about that specific topic.

479
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,160
Right.
Why don't why don't we?

480
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,080
How about we sum up what we
bloody think from from here,

481
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,760
because this is like this has
been going on for fucking bit

482
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,640
now and it's it's it's the
media's been consumed by it.

483
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,760
But like I just said, it is one
of the biggest corporate stories

484
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,040
for a long time, if not the
generation, and could still well

485
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,160
be if they're whether more comes
or not, we don't know.

486
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,080
But he's, as you said, there's
there's this the critical side,

487
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:14,440
but then there's the other side.
You know, we've seen, you know,

488
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:19,560
L1 capital and RAF Rafi Lamb get
behind him in the media as as a

489
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,840
supporter.
Then I'll just going to play a

490
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:28,400
few from the the actual IGN
questions over that were written

491
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,560
in and in person and just have a
have a listen to the reaction to

492
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,360
some of these.
Next online question is from

493
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:36,720
Noel Johnson Superannuation
Fund.

494
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,560
Why has the Board reduced future
Mineral Resources profit by 1

495
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,440
selling our gas fields too
cheaply and two, removing ACEO,

496
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,320
whose results are hard to match
16% plus return on invested

497
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:55,160
capital over the last four years
and who has 11% shareholding and

498
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,800
a vested interest in the
company's future on ESG grounds?

499
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,600
I'll just keep them rolling.
I'm a private shareholder and a

500
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,760
company director who through
various nominees own 1295 and

501
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:13,600
91,200 and 9058 min shares.
Whatever happened a long time

502
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,240
ago before min IPO D I'm not
interested in.

503
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:20,560
Chris has realised the error of
his ways a long time ago.

504
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,120
He made amends to the Ato, the
board is aware and followed up

505
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,960
and now there is additional
scrutiny and tightening of

506
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,600
protocols under the review of
the governance committee.

507
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:35,200
As a shareholder, I'd like MIN
to get on with its core

508
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,920
business.
I fully support Chris Ellison

509
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,520
and know many other shareholders
who do.

510
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,840
Many of us don't want him to
leave in 18 months.

511
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,360
We are confident in the business
direction he is taking with Min.

512
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,320
He built the company and it
needs his continued vision for

513
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,280
at least two years.
The continued historic naval

514
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,200
gazing by AFR and others has
only diminished shareholder

515
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,960
value for things that happened a
long time ago, things that have

516
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,640
been atoned for.
Min's got a bright future.

517
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,360
So I would encourage the board
to get on with the core business

518
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:09,320
of mining and building
shareholder value.

519
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,800
I for one would support Chris
continuing in the role.

520
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,040
After 18 months on the proviso
board set, KPIs are achieved.

521
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,440
How about it, Board?
Can the shareholders vote on

522
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,240
Chris's ongoing role the next
AGM rather than the board make

523
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,440
making a unilateral decision?
We, the shareholders, own this

524
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,040
company.
Chris is the one who led its

525
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,600
creation.
I think he deserves another

526
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:35,160
chance.
The.

527
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,280
Last one.
OK.

528
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,240
My name's David Bowden.
I'm a shareholder since the

529
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,840
company I'm listing.
Backer out there, travelling is

530
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,760
fine.
Investment in MRL has yielded

531
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,680
none other than impeccable
financial performance and

532
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:04,280
renumeration to shareholders
continuously since 2007.

533
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,320
This should not be forgotten.
Under the stewardship of the

534
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,440
Board and the Managing Director,
the company has achieved many

535
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,040
other significant important
milestones, providing a culture

536
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,040
that delivers on time to budget,
proactive to globally changing

537
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,560
circumstances, a very safe
workplace, established carbon

538
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,400
reduction programmes and
sustainability.

539
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,800
A leader in female participation
and leadership.

540
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,880
A leader in cultural heritage.
As a shareholder, I am proud of

541
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,880
all of these achievements.
Of course, none of this can be

542
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,120
achieved without strong
leadership from the top.

543
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,120
It saddens me that the media
have conducted their own trial

544
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:49,640
by media and that there is a
general desire to bash a tall

545
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,840
poppy.
This is unnecessarily diminished

546
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,680
shareholder value.
I had the option to sell out

547
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,080
when they're 80 bucks.
I haven't sold a share.

548
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,000
I don't intend to.
Some mistakes have been made in

549
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,600
by by by the managing director.
They have been publicly

550
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,200
admitted, acknowledged and with
remorse.

551
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,920
Financial errors have been
corrected and significant

552
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,680
sanction and penalties have been
imposed and paid.

553
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:17,640
As a shareholder, I was
surprised to learn of the

554
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,680
board's decision to accelerate
the succession of the managing

555
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,000
director.
If it's absolutely necessary and

556
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,120
personally I'm not in favour,
the timeline must be driven by

557
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:31,960
finding a suitable replacement
knocked by some arbitrary time

558
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,680
limit.
In any case, there should be a

559
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,520
role for Mr Ellison's continued
service to the company to ensure

560
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,480
its ongoing success.
As current shareholders, let us

561
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,240
celebrate the success of this
entity under the guidance of the

562
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,240
Board and its Managing Director
and every contributing employee

563
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:51,760
to the company.
Well done.

564
00:28:51,760 --> 00:29:02,040
Thank you.
There you go.

565
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:07,080
That's obviously a small sample
size, but that's where there is

566
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:13,640
that support out there for him
to essentially bypass that 12 to

567
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,920
18 month thing.
And like, I guess my view of the

568
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,720
whole thing and I, we're, we're
all different because I know

569
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,680
like from working in the
industry.

570
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,480
Oh, so, and it was funny when
they mentioned the, the COVID

571
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,640
thing, because I actually, I
remember going into and the

572
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,440
reason we got to keep working
because Minro's actually set up

573
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,680
this big fucking tent out near
the airport where we all,

574
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,680
everyone had to go get COVID
tested to get back on site.

575
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:42,280
So you look at what the company
has done for the industry, it is

576
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,200
fucking massive.
The jobs they do.

577
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,960
So from from this point, because
we're everything's been fleshed

578
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,320
out in the media already.
There could be if there is more

579
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,000
to come and there is more to
come, but we don't know yet.

580
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,480
But from this point I say, I
think the board, all their

581
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,920
decisions have been in good
response to it.

582
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,160
What what what's come out there?
I don't know.

583
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,000
I don't think they could have
done any more besides sacking.

584
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,760
But would sacking him being the
best thing for the business to

585
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,520
grow and for people to keep jobs
and for shareholder return?

586
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,520
They did determine that on the
spot.

587
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,880
Sacking him would have been
detrimental to the share price

588
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,080
for those people.
So.

589
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,800
You didn't consider it, right?
Yeah.

590
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,680
Yeah.
So I want to see that that

591
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,480
company succeed because it's
it's a lot of jobs, a lot of

592
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,920
growth and good for
shareholders, good for workers.

593
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,760
For someone that's worked in the
industry before and fed my

594
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,800
children from the industry, I'm
a big supporter of it.

595
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,040
So very I think unless he is
literally prosecuted and put in

596
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,040
gaol, if he's not I think he
should be the one running the

597
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,240
company because he's the best
one to do it as the founder.

598
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,120
So we will see but can't comment
on things that haven't come out

599
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,720
yet that may end up going that
way.

600
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,480
But based on this point, if
nothing gets criminally

601
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,760
actioned, I think he's the bloke
to run it so.

602
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,880
I think you described like the
complexity in, in the whole

603
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,640
series of events for for
shareholders.

604
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,520
There are so many people that
have gotten rich as a

605
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,440
shareholder riding the cocktails
of the the phenomenal

606
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,400
shareholder growth that Minres
has had over the last two

607
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,160
decades.
And that's not to be understated

608
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,120
at all.
A lot of people got rich working

609
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,240
for him too.
Totally, totally.

610
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,320
And you know, a lot of the the
parts of Chris, I assume, which

611
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,000
were capable of, you know,
creating that shareholder growth

612
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,360
may have also been the same
parts of him that that him to

613
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:55,000
make some lapses in judgement
along the way to I'll tell you

614
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,320
what, like you're right that it
all depends on is there anything

615
00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,640
else?
And I actually think there's a

616
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,440
there's a, there's a, a phrase I
wanted to read out to you guys,

617
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,400
which gives a clue on that
front, right.

618
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:10,440
So this is what this is part of
James Mcclements statement it

619
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,800
goes, it is important to note
that some investigations are

620
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,640
ongoing.
The Board is committed to

621
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,400
understanding the facts and
identifying where improvements

622
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,720
can be made.
We'll continue to report these

623
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,280
matters in line with our
disclosure obligations.

624
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:27,400
So I kind of see that as they
have, there are some queries or

625
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,560
lines of investigation that are
yet to probably be kind of

626
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,920
disclosed either in the media or
in in Munoz's own statements

627
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,800
that they're trying to determine
is this true or is this not

628
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,120
true?
And that's the, there's the

629
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,960
padding there, which, yeah,
leaves a lot of doubt behind me

630
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,720
actually throwing any support
behind Chris.

631
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,400
I, I just, I can't take away
the, the phenomenal amount of

632
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,560
value creation that that, you
know, Minres has created.

633
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,280
I don't, I actually think that
their capital allocation has

634
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,800
been very poor in the last two
years personally.

635
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,720
I think it's been probably
cyclical, you know, and we've

636
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,760
seen that with lithium.
I think we're going to see that

637
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,840
with the iron ore as well.
And that's yeah, big question

638
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,200
mark over that.
So I just think all of the parts

639
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,640
of that business that you know,
where had been kind of, you

640
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,400
know, firing on all sides.
I questioned the capital

641
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,840
allocation.
I questioned the, the, the, the,

642
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:32,240
the ability to kind of stand by
a leader of that business who

643
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,000
who kind of did the things that
he did and admitted to doing.

644
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,400
It's pretty, you know, if either
of you did that to me as a

645
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,600
business partner, I'd fucking
like.

646
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,240
I couldn't work with you again.
That's just how it is.

647
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,200
Like, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, super, super

648
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:49,760
interesting.
I to start with, I thought it

649
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,840
was awesome the, the shareholder
response, you know, they are the

650
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,760
owners of the business.
It was great to actually hear,

651
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,480
you know, we've, we've been
making our own judgments and,

652
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,960
and all that.
So it was really good to hear

653
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,560
what the mom and dad
shareholders, we've seen what

654
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,600
some of the institutional in the
past couple weeks actually think

655
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:11,000
about the business that they
own, how they reflect on what

656
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,440
Chris, Chris Ellison has sort of
done.

657
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,600
I mean, we caught a bit of that
in how some of the proxies were,

658
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,920
were voted.
Obviously an important one got

659
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,320
pulled, but on the, on the
R.E.M.

660
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,000
Report you can see a lot of
shareholders aren't happy

661
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,080
Anecdotally, we heard a lot of
positive things from

662
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,840
shareholders.
I mean I'm I'm with you guys on

663
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,040
you know we can't who knows what
else is going to come out a fair

664
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,840
bit has sort of come out will
remain to be seen what ASIC

665
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,719
does.
I think that's a super, super

666
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,280
important one.
But everything I saw today did

667
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,400
not give me any reason to
believe that Chris Ellison won't

668
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,719
be running business.
Like just the way they spoke,

669
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,040
the way Chris didn't even
mention leaving, that that point

670
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,960
wasn't even touched upon, you
know, in I mean, I suppose

671
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,000
that's the way you kind of got
to look at it.

672
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,480
If from his perspective, you
just keep running it until the

673
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,760
board makes the decision that
they kind of make.

674
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:07,560
But they don't want to sack him,
you know, and they're looking

675
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,440
for every reason not to sack
him.

676
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:15,000
And that just comes down to the
the shareholder returns capital

677
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,440
allocation has not been good in
the in the past few years.

678
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,760
They've run the business for
many decades and it has been

679
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,920
pretty good.
Hindsight's 2020, there was some

680
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,240
sort of stinkers buying
everything lithium market.

681
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,400
I know remains to be kind of
seen where that kind of goes.

682
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,120
But yeah, I think this has been
the, you know, the story for the

683
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,400
media, like we sort of said.
And I think people are getting a

684
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,800
little bit tired of it now.
I think, you know, Yeah, people,

685
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,520
people want it to kind of be be
done now.

686
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,960
Well, why can't just ASIC and
the company do everything for

687
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,320
me?
Because it's like a lot of the

688
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,080
media stuffs, all for the
media's guy.

689
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,400
It's not for just fucking anyone
else's, it's for their own.

690
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,960
So why can't?
Everybody, yeah I agree, but

691
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,520
everyone only ever works for
their own game.

692
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,920
I don't agree with that was it
was the media's investigation of

693
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,920
Sandbanker and Frida.
It's a different scenario, but

694
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,440
like the media has a role to
play, kind of calling out bad

695
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:08,720
behaviour.
That's how you get better

696
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:10,520
governance in the long run for
society.

697
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,800
What about every Twitter post?
Who's that benefit?

698
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:14,920
It's media.
It's all media.

699
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,080
It's.
Yeah, but it's all Twitter

700
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,480
people just trying to get more
fuck.

701
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,480
Real people.
Like in my view, the Twitter

702
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,560
thing's completely different.
That's that's just the

703
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,240
equivalent of people chatting
down at pub online like that is

704
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:27,360
that is separate from the media
that gets distributed to

705
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,520
hundreds of thousands of people.
You know, people have that's

706
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,400
just a room to chat in.
You know, that's that's kind of

707
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:33,720
different thing.
That's how I see that one,

708
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:36,000
anyway.
Yeah, but it gets fucking shared

709
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,800
everywhere and they just it's
just like I'll just I've had a

710
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,280
gut full of it bloody.
I think it's the info's out

711
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,560
there till new info comes out,
then continue on.

712
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,280
But it's just like, yeah, I just
want to with the the comment

713
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,640
that the lady said at the end,
we did have a snippet of it.

714
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,640
Just like be good to just say
the business fucking start again

715
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,400
and get past this shit.
Unless, as I said, is literally

716
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,440
prosecuted and not in public
anymore.

717
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,040
I don't think any like we'll
talk about the governance bit,

718
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,480
but like I say, focus on the
cash flow that determines the

719
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,440
future here.
Exactly, exactly.

720
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,080
Focus on that.
Very good.

721
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,680
Timmy Boundary Energy give me a
zero CapEx bloody build and

722
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,760
operate power purchase agreement
for a hybrid power station to

723
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,000
power the Rook One uranium
project.

724
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,880
Timmy get your phone ready.
It's a no brainer.

725
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,720
It probably does mean that next
Gen might need Kaydrill as much

726
00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:54,440
now.
It's true.

727
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,640
They've defined when you get
permit and everything you've

728
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,680
defined a resource.
They've probably got enough

729
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,960
uranium.
But for the mining companies out

730
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,040
there, if you're not comfortable
with how much you've got in the

731
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,160
ground, you just want to get a
bit of a sweetener.

732
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,440
Chuck some Arsene diamond holes
in courtesy of the legends at

733
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,360
Kaydrill.
Not just K for Kalgoorlie, could

734
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,040
be K for as Adam Prom, who
knows.

735
00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:17,840
Yes.
And do anything.

736
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,720
RC Diamond, Kadrill So bloody 2
great vendors we recommend

737
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:23,720
there.
Get in touch with them.

738
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:25,640
Beautiful.
OK, Taylor, Go Kadrill.

739
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,520
The news Canadian Nuclear Safety
Commission.

740
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,680
So they've advised Next Gen that
the final federal technical

741
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,640
review has been completed.
So they received a shit load of

742
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,880
actions that they had to send
responses to back in October

743
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,440
2023, submitted the responses in
May this year, and it's finally

744
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:48,560
come back to say that they've
all either been accepted or

745
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,680
accepted with commitment.
Meaning they'll have to address

746
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,800
these items before commencing
any work activities on site

747
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,160
because you can't determine it
yet till it's been put in.

748
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,480
I think there's fourteen of
them.

749
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,200
So an example I'll bring up here
is implementing run off

750
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,880
management from the project
airstrip and explosive storage

751
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,280
area.
It's a lot of those ones are the

752
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,360
big 'cause it's an environmental
assessment, it's all about

753
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,240
pretty much preserving the like
the Patterson Lake, the fish and

754
00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:20,240
habitats and everything.
So obviously very, very

755
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,600
environmental and the fact it's
uranium, it raises a few flags.

756
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,080
So they're so pretty much now
the, it seems pretty

757
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,120
administrative from this point.
So they'll advance to a federal

758
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,120
Commission hearing and
subsequent federal project

759
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,680
approval decision.
Is that more of a formality?

760
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:40,520
Maybe, yeah.
It sounds pretty much that they

761
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,840
reckon it's like it's most
likely approval gets granted

762
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,400
once you're at this point.
So I think the hearing date gets

763
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,920
set imminently.
Then I think after the

764
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,000
Commission hearing occurs, the
legislator has 60 days to ratify

765
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,760
the decision.
So if all this all that goes to

766
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,200
plan, it looks like potentially
they could start construction

767
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:09,160
around second quarter 2025 or
early Q 32025, depending on a

768
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,120
lot of a lot of things to happen
before that.

769
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:12,160
But.
Still pretty soon.

770
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,400
Yeah.
So it'll be be interesting to

771
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,760
also see upon this and this
might tie into the financing and

772
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,760
everything if we actually start
seeing once that's approved, if

773
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:26,040
next Gen start entering the term
market and whether that term

774
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,880
market is in the form of like
finance off take for future,

775
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,920
future pounds to use for the
CapEx.

776
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,560
So because US 1.6 billion at
this stage, pre production

777
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,280
CapEx, US $4.7 billion market
cap for the company.

778
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,240
So will there be a bit of off
take financing?

779
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:46,120
We're going to see a big bloody
equity rise, a big fuck off debt

780
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,240
facility or a combination of all
the above.

781
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:56,440
Or maybe will we see the locks
of chemical Orano or anyone try

782
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,160
and take them or look to buy a
stake in the project as AJV.

783
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,360
It's going to be.
This could be a very interesting

784
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,000
time coming up because, and I
think we can I think you can

785
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,880
confidently say the next Gen
team that's discovered it.

786
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,960
Kudos to discovering it, but
they're not the team to build

787
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,880
it.
Like you need a frigging some

788
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:19,800
for the the best uranium deposit
in the world outside of

789
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,720
Jabiluka.
You need someone that's been

790
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:23,760
there before and done it.
And whether that's a like a

791
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,440
Eurorano Kamiko that have done
it or someone, I think that's

792
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,760
that's the logical path that
this is going to take.

793
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,160
It's not an exploration team
that's going to build this.

794
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:39,000
It's good to recruit people, but
I think a historical company

795
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,480
that's been there and done it
before would be the more logical

796
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:45,520
path for this to take.
So could be an interesting next

797
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,720
month, next couple of months
once this gets approved.

798
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,040
Yeah, seems like big, big news
in some respect.

799
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,720
If that whole thing, which has
been yeah, the whole like every,

800
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:56,960
every, everyone's focused on the
permitting timelines.

801
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,440
It's moving forward.
It's like every time there's

802
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,680
like a thing ticked off, there's
another thing to wait for now,

803
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,800
but it's it's moving and you
look.

804
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:05,600
Like it?
Liked it too.

805
00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:07,560
Yeah, when you look at it, it's
interesting to see how they

806
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,240
performed.
Even though uranium's going to

807
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:12,440
shit this year.
You bring them up in.

808
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,640
So I've got the S&P chart here.
They're actually nearly at an

809
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,920
all time high, pretty much bang
on an all time high for the

810
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,280
stock price, even with spot down
where it is and the sentiment

811
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,320
where it is.
It's all pending, but they're up

812
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,760
33% in the year from year from
today.

813
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,360
So outperformed Kamiko UAC.
Just you look at Paladin and

814
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,080
boss, the Aussie listed
producers, they're down 19% and

815
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:42,000
26% for the same period.
So those, those American, the

816
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,280
American equities have really
outperformed those two

817
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,080
Australian listed ones.
Do you reckon?

818
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,320
Do you reckon the hedges of
pairs trade long next Gen, short

819
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,520
the restarts who have ramp up
issues?

820
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,880
Yeah, also I'll and next gen's
just the best asset as well.

821
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,000
That's where the logical money
goes and it's got the big chunky

822
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,520
market cap.
So it's probably.

823
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,160
Generalists just go there.
More bloody passive and and

824
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,600
active money going into it.
But yeah, market cap is king in

825
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:11,120
uranium for the ETF flows so.
Did you, do you really think the

826
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,920
sentiment is that bad?
I mean, obviously it's no

827
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,400
lithium or nickel or anything
like that.

828
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,240
I mean.
Not a.

829
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,320
Sentiment was the wrong word.
It was more the the equity

830
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,480
performance in the spot price.
It just hasn't just hasn't

831
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,840
kicked yet.
If it's going to kick, who

832
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,880
knows.
But yes, the sentiment and the

833
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:37,200
fucking hype around it is huge,
but it hasn't been shown in the

834
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,960
actual underlyings.
Spot has in the term price, but

835
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,600
term price has been lifting and
it's like the term price is back

836
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,400
above the spot price, which is
what it was usually was the case

837
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,360
for how the spot spot market
worked.

838
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,280
That was just the leftover 15%
shit that they couldn't sell in

839
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,600
terms.
So you sell it cheaper.

840
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,000
So like.
Like we spoke about a week or

841
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,960
two in the office, Maddie, if
you could not see the spot price

842
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,400
at all and you know, not the
Aussie equities either.

843
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:08,560
You just read the announcements,
see what has happened over the

844
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,400
last year, I think you'd be
feeling better.

845
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,600
I don't think that the narrative
has gone away been building Big

846
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,320
tech has been getting more vocal
tensions.

847
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,640
Russia, US, you know,
potentially more bullish news.

848
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,720
I think that's none of that sort
of gone away for for the people

849
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:25,440
that step back and take that
longer term to you.

850
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,760
Very much so.
Oh good, right.

851
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,160
Hey, thanks all the bloody
partners.

852
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,920
As per always Mineral miners.
I've got to go pick the kids up

853
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,680
Fucking through Mineral mining
services grounded cross boundary

854
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,080
energy samba ground sports CRE
insurance K drill dash SAT

855
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,560
hooteru money miners Hooteru
guys Hooteru.

856
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,400
Information contained in this
episode of Money of Mine is of

857
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,480
general nature only and does not
take into account the

858
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,080
objectives, financial situation
or needs of any particular

859
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,120
person.
Before making any investment

860
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,160
decision, you should consult
with your financial advisor and

861
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,320
consider how appropriate the
advice is to your objectives,

862
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,520
financial situation and needs.