Australia’s Most Successful Gold Explorer

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We have the privilege of sitting
down with Ed Issues, somebody

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credited with the discovery of
Platonic Bronzewing and John

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Day.
He's also negotiated with some

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giants of the mining industry,
including Joe Goodnik, Mark

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Creasy and Robert Champion
Decrepitney, just to name a few.

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Right Ed has played a a massive
part in in big corporate moves

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like he's been.
He's been amongst several

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takeovers, rode the highs and
lows of the gold game.

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But yeah, great central well,
you know Luna when it was Apex

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Minerals even having a a front
row seat at the Hemi discovery

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part of the strategy that that
that led to that too.

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Add to that he lived through the
stories of sons of Gwalia as

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well as leading St.
Barbara for a period of time. 50

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years on, Ed is still chasing
discovery, right?

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He's energized by the future,
hunting the next big find, a

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true giant of, of mineral
discovery.

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He's got a wonderful strategy
for actually finding stuff.

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And when you see serially
successful people like Ed with,

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with just discovery after
discovery next to their name,

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you know, at that point it's not
luck.

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You must be doing something
right.

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We're thrilled to share the
conversation.

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And how often is it that we get
to sit down next to next to

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someone that that is is
regularly attributed with three

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enormous discoveries being
platonic, Bronzing and Jundee.

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But not just those Ed issues has
been around the footy, many,

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many other discoveries.
And we're delighted to, to have

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him in the hot seat with us
today.

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You've been, you've been doing a
lot of research about Ed and

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I'm, I'm insanely curious to
have this conversation with a

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serially successful
explorationist like yourself,

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Ed.
Mate, you couldn't have said it

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any better.
Ed, we're very grateful that

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you've joined us here today.
And I'm very curious to hear of

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those 3 discoveries that Trev
just mentioned, which are often

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attributed to to you and the
team you worked for there, Which

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one was the sweetest?
Bronzing was the sweetest

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because by then we knew after
the discovery of Platonic what

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we had to do to be very focused
on achieving rapid success.

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And, and you know, there there
was good science behind it and

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good geologists working with me
in the team that understood that

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process and that requirement
also 'cause we all know that

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capital is very impatient and
risk capital even more so.

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So the the one of the driving
forces in my thinking has always

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been to do things in a very
timely manner.

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I think I read that bronzing was
hit on the the 64th hole of a 65

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hole program.
Is that is that right?

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Yeah, that that's correct.
I mean, basically what we were

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doing there, we knew there was
gold at Mount McClure to the

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West and there was gold at Mount
Joel to the east.

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And there was this area, this
substantial area in between that

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was undercover.
And we'd figured that the

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laterite that was exposed at
Mount McClure to the West most

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probably went undercover in the
area in between.

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So we decided that we drill
along existing roads and fence

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lines at 400 meter spacing.
The reason for the spacing, that

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wide spacing was that if there's
going to be this laterite under

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the cover and if there's going
to be gold under the laterite,

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then there would be some, some
distribution of gold in the

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laterite profile.
And, and you know, obviously if

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it's going to be of any size, it
could could be easily 400 meters

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in dimension.
So that's what we did.

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And so not all the, the we
basically drilled these holes in

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the circle, the north-south
line, east, West, north-south

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and then from West to east.
And as as you said, it was the

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second last hole of the program
that intersected the laterite at

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about 20 meters below the
surface and it had from memory

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it had about four meters of 2
grams.

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But the hole kept going and we
intersected 10 meters at 1g at a

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depth of 70 meters.
Critical thing was that that

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gold was associated with quartz
veining in altered matrix which

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was the target.
So having having got those

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results, we accepted the fact
that this was pretty interesting

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and step immediately 200 meters
to the north with RC drilling

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and the bronze wing discovery
was made.

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As a consequence of that
discovery, second last air core

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hole or was Rab drilling was
cooled.

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In those days, the second last
air core hole had the 4G or 2G

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at 20 meters and 1G at 70
meters, which led to the

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discovery of bronze wing.
The way your approach to

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drilling has been described is
it sort of puts a smile on my

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face there.
I read out some of the snippets,

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but one of them was a frontal
attack with the drill rig.

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Another was that you weren't
afraid to drill often and drill

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deep.
And thirdly that you attack the

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area with your customary go for
broke enthusiasm.

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You clearly had a different
approach.

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What was it that you you sort of
put it most down to that enabled

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the 3 discoveries in in
relatively sort of short

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succession there?
We understood, we understood the

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geology, we could see the
potential scale.

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And so the step from the
discovery type intersections to

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next step after that was to see
the scale of it.

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And once the scale of that had
been established, like, you

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know, whether it was 1 kilometre
in a strike or two kilometres in

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a strike, that that then
determined the the next phase of

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drilling and, and the spacing of
it.

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And also, of course, at what
depth you had to get, always had

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to get the third dimension to
get a better understanding, you

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know, of, of, of the, of the
potential of the deposit.

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And the concept of doing early
diamond drilling was to help to

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understand the geology better
because it's, and any geologist

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will tell you that trying to
understand the geology from, you

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know, RC chips is difficult,
particularly if they're, if

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they're with it.
So stop sort of arguing with

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yourself.
We'll be drilled early diamond

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holes to get a better
understanding of the geology.

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What, what was the sort of
emotion like in, in, in the camp

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when you made these discoveries?
Like for, for geologists to make

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one of these things in, in their
careers a pretty exciting

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feeling.
And I'm sure there would have

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been a lot of doubt around the,
the market and around the, the,

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the geological community about
how you guys were, were

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approaching things.
So if we can sort of put

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ourselves in inside the room
with you guys, what was the the

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sort of feeling?
Well, it was one of it's the

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chase, right?
And there was one of it was

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always one of great excitement,
right from, from, you know,

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obviously the geologists on site
to those were, that were working

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with me in Melbourne and, and
the board, you know, including

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Joseph Gutnick in those, those
days.

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He, he was always very
enthusiastic and, and followed,

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followed the advice that was he
was being given.

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And so, you know, you had a, you
had a, a very collegiate and a

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lot of camaraderie at at on site
because of the success that was

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being achieved.
And, and you mentioned your,

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your relationship with Joe
Gutnick there it was, you know,

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one, one of the most impactful
in, in the market on geology in,

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in WA through the late 80s in
into the 90s.

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What what what do you sort of
ascribe the the the dynamic like

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in the, the the ultimate success
of that relationship to?

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What an unlikely individual to
have bold exploration success in

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WA.
Just it's, it's remarkable.

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Well, Joseph was smart and had
access to the money and you

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know, by then I'd already had a
20 odd years experience in WA.

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Understood.
I thought I understood the

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regolith and how that worked.
And one of the reasons for that

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is that I as an individual and
as company representatives, we

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supported the CSIRO research
into laterite sampling to tell

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us what was happening
underneath.

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And that was very, that was also
very effective.

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So that's, that was the first
leg.

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And then once, once you once
you've intersected the drilling,

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once you've intersected gold in
the drilling, well, then the

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only thing to do is to keep
drilling rather than get sides,

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you know, sidetracked by doing
more geophysics or some other,

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you know, some other exploration
technique.

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We just said, no, we had the
gold, we understood where where

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it's at.
So let's keep going and and

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that, you know, the management
team and the board, of course

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we're all in favour of that
because it produced the results.

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Can you tell us more about that
that relationship with the, the

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CSIRO and how that kind of
unlocked some of those

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discoveries and, and your
thinking?

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Well, yeah, I mean when I first
went to WA in 19 early 1970, one

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of my exploration manager was of
at that time as Ray Smith, who

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then went on to work from 72
onwards at the CSIRO and very

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specifically studying sampling
of laterite nodules to get a

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sense as to what was happening
beneath laterite cover.

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And that, I mean, basically that
research started in 1972 and

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Platonic, which was a result of
doing laterite nodule sampling

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in an area where there'd been no
gold previously was applied, you

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know, resulted in the discovery
in 1986.

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So this is, this is was a long
term research project that in

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the end bore a lot of fruit, but
it was it was long, a long time

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in getting to the point.
And I as an individual was

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always keen on understanding the
what the what the Regulus was

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likely to tell us and the
companies that I was working

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for.
We always supported that

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research on an ongoing basis.
And, and just to, to spell it

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out, what was the like the
finding from the CSIRO that

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actually helped you to, to, to
make gold discoveries just by

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sampling the latter eye?
Well, OK, you've got, when we

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first went to Platonic, we
sampled it what was the old

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mineral claim boundaries
corners.

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So that was like a one, one by
two kilometre grid.

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And the first time we went
there, the results generated a

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1g per ton sample.
Now 1g per ton sampled in a

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laterite nodule in essence
probably pick that over every

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day of the week.
But this was in an area where

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there had been no, no previous
gold mining, no historic gold

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mining.
So we figured that was pretty

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interesting.
So we went back and collected

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another round of samples.
And the second time around we

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got samples with 30 grams per
tonne.

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And of course then it's
self-evident that the only thing

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to do was to drill and we
drilled 25 holes first up.

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Sorry.
We drilled 30 holes first up.

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Five of them hit gold.
The other 25 in the end were all

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within the open pit, but only
five of the first thirty holes

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intersected gold.
But of course they were

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interesting results, so we
followed them up immediately and

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and the rest was came history.
And, and this played a role with

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with bronze wing as well, which
was a pretty fascinating

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discovery story, as I understand
it, because initially you, you

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had a the thinking in the
market, it was a kind of lower

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grade or body, but that that
changed once you started

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drilling it at depth.
Is that right?

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Yeah.
Well, I mean basically the first

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yes, the first No, the even from
the outset the first RC results

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and I don't remember them
exactly today, but the first RC

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results certainly at Brunswing
intersected, you know 5 grams

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were done over several meters
and that again changed the

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landscape.
But the important thing was

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taking the step from getting 10
meters at 1g per ton at 70

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meters, which is, which is not
economic by any standard, but

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understanding the geology and
following that up.

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And we didn't have to go through
a, you know, through a joint

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venture committee meeting or,
you know, try to convince some

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management who didn't understand
what this really could mean.

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We didn't have to do that.
Joseph.

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And I said, OK, this is a good
result.

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We'll follow it up.
That's what we did.

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You did at a point and you and
you relayed this story to us

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when we spoke a week ago after
work with Mark Creasy a bit.

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And there was a deal you did to
take 51% ownership of a project

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and put up a bit of capital that
everyone else in the market who

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had looked at wasn't willing to
kind of take.

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Can you take us through that
story?

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Yeah, sure.
After the discovery of Platonic

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and the sale of Platonic cash
was used to explore in part for

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diamonds in the in the Platonic
area.

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And there was good, yeah, I
mean, there was some, some

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humour about that.
But in fact Anglo or De Beers

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were exploring for diamonds in
the in the same area.

226
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,920
So it, it, it, it, it was a
valid, you know, there was a

227
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,560
valid basis for exploring it for
diamonds.

228
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,840
And Joseph was keen to find
diamonds.

229
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,280
And so we persisted with that
some time.

230
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,120
But then I, I do recall that
Mark Reesey approached this at

231
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:10,480
one time to do a, he had Jundee
and he had a large part of the,

232
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,840
the handle belt which he joint
ventured out previously.

233
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,400
And people had spent money
looking for base metals at one

234
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,680
time.
And he got the land back and he

235
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,680
kept, kept this very large land
package together.

236
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:32,440
But the deal that he wanted at
the time was to get a 51%

237
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:37,000
interest in Jundee.
He had to put up a nominal

238
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,440
amount as an option payment.
And I think it was something

239
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:46,040
like $50,000 at the time.
But the hook for Creasy was that

240
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:52,760
he wanted $3,000,000 cash after
12 months for that option to be

241
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:59,440
exercised.
And Joseph at wasn't ready to

242
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:02,840
take that jump away from
diamonds.

243
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,960
So we sort of left it for the
moment and went and then as the

244
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,720
diamond, in my view, as the
diamond exploration wasn't being

245
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,680
that successful, I said to I, I
advised Joseph that maybe we

246
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,640
should go back to Gracie and see
if that deal was still possible.

247
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:24,760
And it was.
And he told us then and he's

248
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,600
made it public himself that
during that, in that 12 month

249
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,880
period, he had 19 different
companies come to look at the

250
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:38,040
land, in particular at Jundee.
And they all balked at this

251
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,520
notion of having to pay
$3,000,000 cash in 12 months

252
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:48,520
time and so didn't proceed.
Now, I, I said to Joseph at the

253
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:53,960
time, if, if we can't work out
in 12 months whether we can pay

254
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,800
$3,000,000 to exercise the
option to earn 51%, then we

255
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,520
shouldn't be in this business.
So we agreed.

256
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:09,320
And while we're negotiating with
Gracie on, on that, on Jundee,

257
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,960
he said, oh, look, I've got all
this other land, you know, to

258
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,600
the South and I'll do a joint
venture deal with you on that.

259
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:24,280
If you like, you know, earning
you can earn 7070% or 75% by

260
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,720
spending all the money up to and
including a feasibility study,

261
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,040
bankable study, right.
OK, job done.

262
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:37,840
And we agreed then to do both
Jundee and the rest of the

263
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:43,160
annual belt at that time and
there was no upfront payment for

264
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,160
the joint venture on the rest of
the Angel belt.

265
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,760
So it was a good, it was a good
deal for Great Central at the

266
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,400
time.
And of course, history tells us

267
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,480
that he ended up being a very
good deal for Mark Creasy as

268
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,640
well.
I mean this this sort of led to

269
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,200
his his first big breakthrough
success.

270
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:03,520
What?
What was it sort of like

271
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,560
negotiating and and dealing?
With him, oh, it was extremely

272
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,800
difficult.
We thought he's a hard

273
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:16,080
bargainer.
But it it was difficult, but it

274
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,880
was not unreasonable.
Yeah, we had many late night

275
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:28,360
meetings, but to to, to not out
what, what was fair to both

276
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,720
sides.
And I think in the end the deal

277
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:36,920
that was struck looked
favourable, you know, to to

278
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,600
mark, but was also favourable to
Great Central, ended up with

279
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,560
100% of it there.
The the the Jundee that we that

280
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:51,360
we know is jundee to today, Did
it always look and feel like the

281
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:57,080
the special Jundee?
Well, Jundee's in really in two

282
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:58,800
parts.
Well, there were three parts to

283
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,520
Jundee, right?
There's Jundee, which is the

284
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,120
deal that the Great Central did
with Mark.

285
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,280
And then then Eagle and another
company had the western part of

286
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,760
Jundee and they they'd already
found some gold there.

287
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,040
And then there was an Eastern
bloc which Creasy kept to

288
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:25,160
himself.
So when we first drilled there,

289
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:32,160
we ended up I think in the oxide
zone about 1 to one and a half

290
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:37,320
million oz and that you know
that was that happened pretty

291
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:42,720
rapidly and then I thought, OK,
So what happens at depth.

292
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,480
So I thought we knew what we're
doing.

293
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,520
So we targeted, you know,
obviously the higher grade

294
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:53,080
results in the RC drilling in
the oxide zone to see what

295
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,640
happened.
And, you know, the first few

296
00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:00,760
diamond holes got very little.
And so I realized that we

297
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,720
actually weren't that clever
after all.

298
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,880
So I said, OK, the only way to
tackle this was, you know, we

299
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,960
had a strike length by the end
of about 8 kilometers was to

300
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:19,040
drill diamond holes, you know,
to about four or 500 meters deep

301
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,080
at 400 meters centers along the
whole strike.

302
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:30,360
And that was the plan.
The second, I think it was the

303
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:35,640
second diamond hole and and now
it's just read space.

304
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,240
There was, there was the only
geological impact was that we

305
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,800
had this strike length and we
needed to find out what was

306
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,280
happening.
And I think again, it was the

307
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:52,360
2nd hole intersected Barton and
it, it was a high grade result.

308
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:54,080
And then we followed it up from
there.

309
00:21:54,840 --> 00:22:01,920
So did it always look special?
At the time I remember thinking

310
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,880
that bronzing was pretty good,
but crazy to his due told me no

311
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,840
no, Jandy was always going to be
better.

312
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,440
So maybe he had he had a more
insightful view than I did at

313
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,440
that time.
And and there was a view from

314
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,800
you and the team at the time
that this would become a massive

315
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,560
pit.
Yeah, right.

316
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,960
Yes.
You, I mean you worked through

317
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,200
that 90s period in an era where
the gold price was going against

318
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,400
you, unlike it has for for the
last 20 years, which is a

319
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,320
completely different framing to
to go back and think about.

320
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,200
But was that sort of constantly
in the back of your mind there?

321
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,000
Yeah, it it did.
I remember going to a, a

322
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,600
conference in gold conference in
New York, Maryland probably was

323
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,960
the Denver Gold Show, not New
York and Denver in 97.

324
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,760
There was so much exploration
going on at that time around the

325
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:04,280
world, not only in Australia.
I thought there's going to be so

326
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,960
much gold.
It's going to be found now

327
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,520
whether the 2 are related or
not.

328
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,040
But the gold price started to
fall from then on.

329
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:18,080
So yes, the falling gold price
had a had a big impact on on how

330
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,520
we're thinking about it.
But at Jundee, the pits, the

331
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,320
pits we had, we created several
pits that would, that wouldn't

332
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,480
actually as much as we might
have wanted.

333
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,720
They didn't join up, so we just
took them as they were.

334
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,040
There were some pretty sort of
vocal debates between Whitney

335
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,560
and various Australian
politicians at the time because

336
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,920
I think we were, as a central
bank, selling a large portion of

337
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,840
our gold.
That market too, which was a was

338
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,800
a headache for all the gold
miners across Australia.

339
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:54,040
Yeah, well, it was at that time
that Australia sold, sold its

340
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,040
gold when it was already the
third largest gold producer in

341
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,880
the world.
It actually made no, no sense.

342
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:06,120
But you know, they obviously,
the politicians were obviously

343
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:10,680
getting other advice.
JD found this this description

344
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,160
somewhere.
The Gutnick Gutnick issues was

345
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,520
described as one of the most
creative Capital Intellect

346
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,840
combinations in the market.
What do you think of that

347
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:26,880
characterisation?
It's very complementary comment

348
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,480
of course.
But look, we work well together

349
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,480
for a long time, for a long
period of time.

350
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,280
And, and I think it was the fact
that Joseph understood the risks

351
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:44,640
that were that were involved and
I, I, I guess I understood the

352
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,480
geological risks and that
combination worked very well.

353
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:56,120
You reflect a lot on the, the
access to capital being enabling

354
00:24:56,120 --> 00:25:00,560
the, the pace of discoveries And
I I almost, I'm flashing forward

355
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:06,240
a lot, but you know, in a lot of
ways like your, your DGO was,

356
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,400
was you being a financier for,
for exploration kind of flip

357
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,160
rolls.
You were now you were now good.

358
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,400
Nick, did you ever see it that
way?

359
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:21,160
Yes or no.
I mean success in exploration is

360
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,960
largely a function of how much
capital is there is.

361
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,960
If you accept the fact, yes,
you've got to have strong

362
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,440
technical teams and you have the
environment in which you can do

363
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,360
that work.
But in in Australia, most

364
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:39,160
explorers are starved for
capital.

365
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:45,240
And in my view, exploration
success is improved with more

366
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,880
capital being available.
And I've had this conversation

367
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:54,040
with this with very large
institutional investors and that

368
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,000
that point had never occurred to
them.

369
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,600
There's this concept that
exploration success in, in

370
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:07,760
Australia is it's, it's
speculation, but it doesn't have

371
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,280
to be, it can actually be
success can be a function of

372
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:19,160
knowledge, application of new
technology and, and the smarts

373
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,640
of the, of the team.
And that's the one I mean, one

374
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,920
of the benefits in Australia
today is that, you know, modern

375
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,200
day expressions been going on
for 60 years or more.

376
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,480
And as a function of exploration
of that exploration, it's all

377
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,400
been recorded at, at the Mars
department, whatever it's called

378
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,520
today.
And that's readily accessible.

379
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,280
So you can actually keep
building on past exploration if

380
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:53,600
it's for success.
The the concept of drilling

381
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,400
something out like Swiss cheese
comes up a lot with the way

382
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,160
you've approached things.
I know we were speaking about it

383
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,240
just before, but how do you
reflect on that sort of

384
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,720
statement?
Well, I think I, I, I always

385
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,520
regard it as a derogatory
statement, but it in fact was

386
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:17,320
necessary to get to indicated
resources or at least probable

387
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:22,000
reserves to be able to raise the
capital to develop the mines.

388
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,120
And that's, that was the
fundamental reason.

389
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:30,160
And the only, the only time we,
we did drill holes like Swiss

390
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,320
cheese was if we actually knew
what we had.

391
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,800
And you know, there was largely
a program or always a program of

392
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:44,600
infill drilling to make sure
that we actually got understood

393
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,440
the distribution of the gold as
it was.

394
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,880
I mean, fortunately we never
made a mistake.

395
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:57,000
We always were able to produce
to the reserves that we'd

396
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,640
estimated.
The the turn of the the turn of

397
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,280
the century, you're you're MD of
new Hampton gold fields.

398
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,640
What, what, what's your, what's
your thinking with this, this,

399
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,560
you know, new chapter in, in
your career?

400
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:20,760
Well, OK, so I thought that we
could create with New Hampton a,

401
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:30,800
a, a gold exploration company
and, and basically do the same

402
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,760
as what I'd been doing with
Joseph and great Central Minds

403
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:40,640
and Central.
And it had, New Hampton had a,

404
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,960
had a small operation.
Yes, it was short of the feed.

405
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,960
Well, we'd been there before.
So I thought we could fix that

406
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,000
by drilling appropriately.
And it was, you know, close to

407
00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:00,080
Kalgoorlie.
It was in the right place and

408
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,360
didn't actually quite work out
like that.

409
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:08,680
And then, and then we, we, we
acquired the, we acquired the

410
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:15,160
Bell mine and that was part of
giving New Hampton an

411
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:21,920
additional, additional operation
and an additional exploration

412
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,520
opportunity.
But with most operations,

413
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,400
operations suck all the energy
and all the oxygen and

414
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:36,040
exploration tends to get put to
one side and, and that's what

415
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,200
happened in that case.
And so it wasn't, it was and

416
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,920
then it got taken over by, by
Harmony, which wasn't my idea.

417
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:51,040
But the by then the largest
shareholder of New Hampton was

418
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,560
was Robert Dkrepny, Robert
Champion Dkrepny.

419
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:02,760
And he, he, he didn't want, he
sold out to, to Harmony to

420
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:09,880
basically divest that interest.
So that I wasn't in favour of

421
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,280
the, or the price of the
takeover and objected to it.

422
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,480
But the rest of the board said
no, no, that's that's what

423
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,280
happened.
How hard was that sort of

424
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,880
transition?
I know you'd been doing a lot of

425
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,800
management in in your later
years at at Great Central, but

426
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,560
that transition from exploration
and working within a framework

427
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,600
to being a manager and running a
company.

428
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,520
Oh, that was yeah, that was a
challenge, right?

429
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,280
Because now, I mean, working
with Joseph, Joseph was clearly

430
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,480
responsible for raising the
capital.

431
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,720
I was responsible for, you know,
spending the money wisely and,

432
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,160
and exploring when we got to New
Hampton, of course, I was

433
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,120
responsible for both.
And that was, even though I'd

434
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,280
been in the market and people
knew who I, who I, who I was and

435
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:58,840
why I did, it was still
difficult.

436
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,600
And it was also a difficult
time, you know, in, in the

437
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,040
market full stop.
So yes, it was.

438
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:11,320
It was not easy.
You then headed up after sort of

439
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,640
finding your way into St.
Barbara of all companies, which

440
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,640
was a, well, it's a company with
a fascinating history and plenty

441
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,120
of ups and downs, but sort of
circa 2004.

442
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,080
Find your way in there and then
get your hands on some Sons of

443
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,720
Gwalia assets.
Tell us about that sort of

444
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,560
period.
OK.

445
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,600
The sons of Barbara, the
shareholders of of Saint

446
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,320
Barbara, the shareholders St.
Barbara were unhappy with the

447
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,800
management and they rolled,
rolled the board and appointed

448
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:48,880
myself as the MD and Colin Wise,
who I brought along as the

449
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,440
chairman.
And this major shareholder at

450
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,720
time was Resource Capital Fund
and I'd worked with the

451
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,760
principals of that fund in the
development of, of Brunswick.

452
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,040
They, they, they were the early
financiers of Brunswick.

453
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,320
In fact, they, they lent some
money to complete the, they had

454
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,080
central money to complete the
feasibility study on Brunswick.

455
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,880
So I had a good relationship
with them.

456
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:23,280
But prior to that I'd spent a
year advising sons of Gaulia on,

457
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,760
on their expiration.
This was to the board rather

458
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,520
than to the management.
So I was very familiar with the

459
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:37,600
assets and and in fact was
advising them on what I thought

460
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:44,720
should happen at Sons of Gulia,
at the Sons of Gulia Mine and

461
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:50,120
and elsewhere for that matter.
But, and Sons of Gulia Mine was

462
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,120
the was the principal asset.
I mean, they had Karasu Dam and

463
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,240
they also had Southern Cross
operation.

464
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,600
So I was quite familiar with
those assets.

465
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,760
And then Sons of Guli went into
administration.

466
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,840
They were concerned, the
management were concerned about

467
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,360
meeting the future hedge
requirements.

468
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,280
And when they approached the
counterparties about that, they

469
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,640
said, well, if you have concern,
then what can we do?

470
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,760
So they put Sons of Guli into
administration when Sons of

471
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,200
Gorilla had $60 million in bank.
So it's the the people forget

472
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:36,760
these sorts of things and put it
into administration.

473
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,520
And I thought, oh, this is now I
was at Saint Barbara.

474
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,040
I thought this is interesting.
So it became clear that the

475
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,720
administrator wanted to sell
everything one package.

476
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:57,400
And in terms of the gold and the
lithium and Greenbush's

477
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:02,080
tatellite speaks what you know,
they they're treated separately.

478
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,120
There are a lot of different
Docker proposals that were put

479
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,440
in.
There were there's so many

480
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,280
proposals, but was was, was the
administrator just just

481
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,880
favouring a clean outcome?
Is that how he do?

482
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:14,639
He was he was very much in
favour of all the gold assets

483
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:19,280
being done in one go.
And the question is why do that?

484
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:26,000
So because there was there were
environmental bonds of some 30

485
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,840
odd million attached to the gold
assets.

486
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,679
So, so OK, so Resource Capital
fund was the major shareholder

487
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:40,560
in Barbara.
I put it to them that we do this

488
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,480
Sons of Grilly deal.
They had to figure out how to,

489
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,520
how to get rid of these bonds,
finance the bonds.

490
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,639
When you know, when St.
Barbara's a company had a market

491
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:56,719
cap of 50, how do you finance
bonds of 30 odd million?

492
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,920
Well, they, they got letters of
credit and sold that issue for

493
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,080
us.
And then we got, we bought, we

494
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,880
were able to buy the assets, the
whole company for $4 million

495
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:16,800
cash plus replacing the bonds.
And so the outlay was $4

496
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:22,600
million.
And then we had to sit, we had

497
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,720
to work out, OK, what could,
what could St.

498
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:28,960
Barbara do now?
So we decided there and then

499
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:34,000
that we sell Karra Sudan and and
the Southern Cross operations

500
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,880
and focus on, on, on Leonora
sons of Gulia mine.

501
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,640
And of course is that a good
decision?

502
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:50,960
Well, it was all we could do at
the time rather than dilute, you

503
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,280
know, raise a lot of capital and
dilute the existing

504
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,880
shareholders.
So we did sell that and of

505
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:02,000
course tells us that Raleigh,
Finland soon ended up with Kara

506
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,800
Sudan.
This now owns tons of gold in

507
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,840
mine and that's that's
interesting.

508
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:16,120
But anyway, yeah, we, we
developed, well, what we did at

509
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,800
Sansaguli after we got control
of it was a very simple thing.

510
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,440
The previous management had,
we're advising the board that to

511
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,720
look to actually develop the
extensions of the Sansaguli mine

512
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:36,840
below 1000 meters depth required
sinking of a shaft and then

513
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,080
drilling from the base of the
shaft.

514
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,680
Of course, we know the shaft was
going to cost 120 million.

515
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,480
It would take two or more years
to do and then you still had to

516
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,280
do all the drilling.
And my advice to the board at

517
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,080
the time was no, we actually
don't need to do that.

518
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:00,920
You can drill from the surface,
but that was rejected by by the

519
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,720
management.
So of course when we got hold of

520
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:08,760
the assets, that's what we did.
We drilled from the surface.

521
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:14,640
Now the cost yes was $300 a
metre, which was outlandish,

522
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,160
outrageous, but the cost was
only $30.00 an ounce and that

523
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:23,200
was the critical component.
So we're able to then after

524
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,680
consultation with again with
resource geologists,

525
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,000
specialists, what spacing did we
require for them to be able to

526
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,280
sign off on indicator resources
to get to reserve because we, we

527
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:42,600
knew we had to raise capital at
some stage to develop redevelop

528
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,040
the mark.
Anyway, the answer was if we

529
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:50,200
drilled it at a 40 by 40 meter
spacing even you know, down to

530
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,560
1800 meters that would, that
would most probably was the

531
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,920
answer most probably get to
indicated resources.

532
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:10,120
And that's what we did and we
did we, we generated I think

533
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:15,000
3,000,000 ounces in resources
from that drilling and 1.8

534
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,040
million ounces in reserves and
were able to redevelop demand.

535
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:24,160
And it's, it's since then it has
produced more than 2 million oz.

536
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:31,960
So, but the critical thing was
that we're able to do that

537
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,520
relatively quickly because you
could have two or three or four

538
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:40,840
rigs on on site.
The drilling results was were

539
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:46,040
generally better than what the
model had indicated.

540
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:52,520
You had inferred resources below
1000 meters, but so you actually

541
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,520
had a picture as to how much
gold you would get it once you

542
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:01,080
intersected the ore body.
And in many cases the drilling

543
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,360
results were better than what
the model predicted, which which

544
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,920
was heartening, but at the same
time was necessary.

545
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:14,680
So in the end, the we're quite
confident about the about the

546
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,320
resource model and particularly
about the grade and the grade

547
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,080
stood up very well for a long
time.

548
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,120
Was was was Tower Hill part of
the picture back then too?

549
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,720
Tower Hill, That's a good
question.

550
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:30,360
Tower Hill was.
We looked at Tower Hill hard.

551
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,720
It had infrastructure issues
which you know which Genesis

552
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:41,760
have resolved I think very
elegantly in terms of stopping

553
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,040
the railway line rather than
moving the railway line.

554
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,960
From an underground viewpoint.
It was clear that the ground

555
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,280
conditions were not favourable
for underground development.

556
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:58,400
But, and I did think at one time
about driving a decline from the

557
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:05,720
base of the Sons of Goria shaft
to decline, sorry to, to, to

558
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,960
Tower Hill, but we didn't didn't
get around to doing that.

559
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,640
But that that was that was an
idea we were contemplating at

560
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,880
the time.
But I think what Genesis have

561
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,240
come up with is very elegant
solution.

562
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:19,800
Big open pit at 2 grams.
Wow.

563
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:27,200
Isn't it remarkable, you know,
2020 years ago put a shaft in

564
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,680
Gualia and like find a way to
get around this railway for

565
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,360
Tower Hill.
The strategy hasn't changed too

566
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,640
much.
I mean, they have they explored

567
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,880
the shaft and then they they
shafted the shaft plan.

568
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,040
The shafted the shaft, yeah.
How do you kind of think about

569
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,120
that period, that sort of five
year block?

570
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,040
Were you managing the company?
Did you have enough time to sort

571
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,120
of focus on exploration and and
making discovery or were you

572
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,880
constantly dragged into the the
ups and downs of managing mines?

573
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,600
Well, I think history tells us
that you know, operations suck

574
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:02,440
all the energy and effort and
you know we did have, we did

575
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:08,480
have an ambition to get to a
400,000 oz gold producer which

576
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:14,800
which bent and at that stage we
had Sons of Gaulia and Southern

577
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,240
Cross operations.
Now we're going to be producing

578
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:24,400
about 2:50 to 300,000 oz a year.
So we had to find another

579
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,840
thousand ounce producer, which
we didn't do, didn't, didn't

580
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:34,280
achieve in the time frame.
Well, I mean, we did do a lot of

581
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,760
drilling at Tower Hill and that
that was an obvious one.

582
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:46,200
And I, I do, I do remember the
time when we're drilling both at

583
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:51,080
Sons of Gaulia mine deep holes.
So standing well back, see the

584
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,640
rigs from the from the highway.
But when we're drilling at Tower

585
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:01,120
Hill, we had two or three RC
rigs drilling and the highway

586
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:06,880
was quite close to Tower Hill.
And when when we started doing

587
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,360
that drilling, the share price
of Saint Barbara went up just

588
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,080
because everyone could see there
was a lot of activity or I think

589
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,360
that's where it was.
I I really reflect now more so

590
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,200
than than having read about it
before on this model of having

591
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:26,640
the exploration chief and the
the sort of financing chief.

592
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,720
Is that something you ever tried
to to recreate later or is it

593
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:34,360
just impractical?
I think, I think that's probably

594
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,560
worked with DGO if we if we look
hard at it.

595
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:44,680
Bruce Parker, my colleague and
Co director, yes.

596
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,960
Was he?
He was a geologist, but he went,

597
00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:53,720
he went soon went into broking
and ended up being head of

598
00:42:53,720 --> 00:43:01,760
Macintosh Securities, which was
Australia was one of the two

599
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,320
Australian brokers and they
ended up being taken over by

600
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,440
Merrill Lynch.
And Bruce was, you know, CEO of

601
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:15,000
Merrill Lynch for a while.
So his background was he had a

602
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,520
lot of experience in the market
and I think that that

603
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,400
combination is basically worked
again.

604
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,840
So the short answer is yes, I
think it is.

605
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,840
It is a good model.
Yeah.

606
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,280
And and you obviously had a lot
of success there with with DGO.

607
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:40,440
You told us a great story, which
I'd love for you to share on the

608
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,200
discovery of Hemi and the advice
you were giving and what could

609
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,200
have been, I think some six
years prior to the eventual

610
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:48,440
discovery there.
Yeah.

611
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,400
Well, look, if I if I can just
start at the beginning perhaps

612
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:59,880
in that when Bruce and I got
together in DGODGO had a market

613
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:05,040
cap of $2,000,000, right.
So it was and, and the reason

614
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,520
why I was was that because it
was difficult to raise capital

615
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,720
in that in that time.
And we were doing, I was, I was

616
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:18,440
basically doing a, or trying to
emulate what Mark Creasy had

617
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,240
done.
And that was to pick up large

618
00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:23,960
areas and, and have Greenfield's
exploration happening.

619
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,080
When Bruce said he wanted to
join with me, I said that was

620
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:32,680
that was good.
And we sat down and said OK, so

621
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,440
where's the best place to look
for gold?

622
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,800
And the answer, the real answer
was that it's probably already

623
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,520
held by both large and small
companies.

624
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,200
So having come to that
conclusion, we said OK, well

625
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,840
let's have a look at all the ASX
listed companies they were

626
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:56,000
exploring for gold in Australia.
And there were about 160.

627
00:44:57,240 --> 00:45:02,520
And we very quickly of course
got down to about 10, of which

628
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:11,480
de Grey was #1 and NTM was #2
and NTM being ended up being

629
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,040
taken over by Dosian and #3 was
Yandel.

630
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,640
And the reason for picking de
Grey as the number one was it

631
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:27,120
had a large, had a large land
area and gold was known

632
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,320
throughout the area.
And we actually did a, we did an

633
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:36,920
estimate, a risk estimate as to
how much gold we could find by

634
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:41,040
extending the existing deposits.
And we made allowance for the

635
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,440
discovery of a new one.
Didn't know where that would be,

636
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,000
but we made because because of
the prospectivity of the land,

637
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,080
we thought there's likely to be
another whistle or another male

638
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:56,000
on a you know 1 to 2 million oz
type deposit close by.

639
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:02,160
And we figured out how much that
would cost to drill and we did

640
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,680
it on a risk weighted basis.
So in other words the to extend

641
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:11,160
with normal amount of to 1 to 2
million oz, we thought the risk

642
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:15,920
was risk was quite low.
So that was 75% success rate.

643
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,600
But in terms of finding a new
one, we thought, well, that had

644
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:24,480
to be a risk rate of about 50
percent, 5050 chance finding a

645
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:29,040
new one.
Anyway, that led us to investing

646
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:34,920
in the grey and we invested in
the grey at $0.20 at a time and,

647
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,120
and we're quite happy with that.
And of course the share price

648
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:44,760
went down to $0.05.
So we, we, we realised we

649
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:49,960
weren't that clever after all.
But the market was sensing that

650
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,200
the grey had to, had to buy out
the there was a Chinese partner

651
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,640
that they had an option over to
buy them out and they needed to

652
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,480
raise $13 million for that.
So the market sensed that there

653
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,160
was more money needed to be
raised.

654
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,360
So the share price went down.
Anyway, cut a Long story short.

655
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:12,720
We, we Bruce and I helped them
raise with my son Grant helped,

656
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,760
helped them raise the money at
at $0.05.

657
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,200
And one of the conditions was
that we go on the board, Bruce

658
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,800
and I would go on the board
which we did.

659
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,320
I did spend and the other large
shareholder at that time was

660
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:34,840
Kirkland Lake and they didn't
want to contribute to any to the

661
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,640
capital raise.
So they, they got diluted, but

662
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,120
they did want to have a look at
the land position one time.

663
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:46,880
So they came over and I as just
as a a shareholder at that time,

664
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,120
I went with the Kirkland Lake
people and we did a 2 day

665
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,240
helicopter ride looking at all
the prospects.

666
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,040
And the one thing that became
very clear to me was that that

667
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,800
this was a vast area, a vast
area.

668
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,560
It was 150 kilometers long and
about 50 kilometers wide.

669
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,880
And yes, there was gold deposits
throughout.

670
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:14,840
And you could, you could
actually sort of sense that in

671
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:20,600
the past, companies and, or
individuals would be overwhelmed

672
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,240
by the, by the scale of what
they had.

673
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,800
So they always sort of went back
to what they knew.

674
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,520
So there was all this concept of
incrementally adding to what,

675
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:36,080
what had been found.
And well, we had to, we had to

676
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,640
think differently about it.
And also, mind you, you know,

677
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:44,080
even highly respected academic
geologists said no bill was

678
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,960
different to the Yule gun.
You're not going to find any big

679
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,520
deposits.
They only, they only found small

680
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,640
ones.
Well, of course you could

681
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:57,560
dismiss that argument from a, a
statistical viewpoint when you

682
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,960
look at gold provinces.
So we didn't take any notice of

683
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:06,960
of the respected geological
wisdom and figured out that, OK,

684
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,600
so this thing was 150 kilometres
long.

685
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,960
There it became clear there were
about four areas each of about

686
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,160
30 kilometres long, which had
been hardly explored or poorly

687
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,960
tested.
And we knew each of the existing

688
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,920
deposits were about 1 kilometre
long.

689
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:30,000
So it worked out that you could
drill air core drilling at 1

690
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:37,280
kilometre spacing or thereabouts
across the structures and it

691
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,960
each area, there were four
areas, each area would cost

692
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,440
about $1,000,000 each to do that
first Pass Air Corps drilling.

693
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:50,560
It took us, it took us a while
to convince both board and

694
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,440
management that that's what they
should do.

695
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,680
In fact, took more than six
months.

696
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,880
But when they started, of
course, the Hemi discovery was

697
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:03,360
the first area they adopted this
strategy and it happened within

698
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:10,760
the first two weeks.
Now the, the story of course is

699
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:17,840
that the real story is that yes,
the the geology team Andy led by

700
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:23,960
Andy Beckworth and Phil Tamara,
very competent, very competent

701
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,800
people.
But the strategy they had of

702
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:32,120
finding a little bit more and
building a central mill was

703
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,560
always gonna not gonna really
cut it from a shareholder

704
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,600
viewpoint.
The Gray put out ADFS on Was it

705
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,960
DFS on?
There was a study put on on

706
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,000
Malanar in 2019 I wanna say.
A 2018 like.

707
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:45,800
Yeah.
So that was that was a strategy.

708
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,800
Was that, that was, that was a
strategy?

709
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,640
It was, yeah.
And and we said, no, we, we

710
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,520
haven't invested in the Gray for
that strategy.

711
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:58,120
We've invested because you've
got this large land package with

712
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,200
enormous potential.
So let's go and see if we can

713
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,200
find.
And then of course, once you

714
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,040
say, let's see how we can find
here, they have to explain how

715
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,800
you go about it.
And that was the strategy bit

716
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:15,200
that we, we, we wrote it up 4
areas, each 30 kilometres long.

717
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,960
It's a drill space drill,
Travis, every everyone kilometre

718
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,560
holes.
I can't remember the spacing was

719
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,880
probably 160 meters or something
along each line.

720
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,760
And let's see what happens.
That's the business that we're

721
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:36,160
in, right?
And, and yes, so as I said

722
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,600
before, they him, he came up
within virtually within the

723
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,120
first two weeks of starting on
that strategy.

724
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:48,960
And then subsequently, of
course, we found and and de

725
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,040
Grave made this public
themselves.

726
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:56,960
They had actually drilled in the
Hemi area six years earlier, the

727
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:02,120
air core drilling the the rods
that got bulked in the gravel

728
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:07,400
layer at about 40 meters below
the surface and stopped.

729
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,960
And if they kept, if they'd gone
another meter or two, they would

730
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:16,000
have hit, I think it was Deusan
or Eagle, one of those, which

731
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,240
then would have course escalated
and they would have found the

732
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:24,200
rest of it.
So the really critical point for

733
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:29,360
explorers and for shareholders
in the exploration company is to

734
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:34,160
be absolutely clear that the
drilling that's being done is

735
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,440
effective.
Because if it's not, then don't

736
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,760
even bother starting.
And if it isn't effective, then

737
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,520
keep going until you have
completed an effective drilling

738
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:46,080
program.
This.

739
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,880
Is this is a lesson that you,
you, you you've had several

740
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,800
times in your in your career.
And before we started recording,

741
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,360
you were telling telling one of
those very examples.

742
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,840
Do you want to do you want to
talk about Yeah, your your

743
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,800
observation of the depth of
drilling and.

744
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:07,120
Yeah, it's a very, it's a, it's
a beautiful example really in

745
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:11,480
that we're at, at Mount Pleasant
just, you know, north of north

746
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,040
of Kalgoorlie.
Mount Pleasant area in the in

747
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:19,720
the 80s was one of the red hot
gold areas to the extent where

748
00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:25,160
even Western mining got involved
with Consolidated Exploration

749
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:30,640
company at the time.
And yeah, and and Elders

750
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,840
resources were there.
So it was it was it was one of

751
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,840
the hot areas.
Anyway, there was a mill there

752
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:46,640
and Central Mining bought the
land package and the mill and it

753
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,880
was in the early 90s.
The mill had about six months of

754
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:54,200
reserves.
So we had to had to find some

755
00:53:54,360 --> 00:54:01,200
new reserves and went there.
And you could see at Mount

756
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:06,600
Pleasant there was this corridor
about 8 kilometres long, about

757
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,760
two kilometres wide where there
were several open pits.

758
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,240
And it was, it looked like there
was drilling everywhere.

759
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,960
So it had been drilled.
So in effect, it looked like the

760
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,360
job had been done.
However, when you went to the

761
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,880
open pitch, you could see there
was 20 meters of alluvial cover

762
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,600
over the top of weathered
bedrock.

763
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:35,760
And in, in those days, in the,
in the 80s, air core drawing or

764
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:40,200
Rab drawing as it was called.
Yeah, it was, it was the next

765
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,000
step after soil sampling.
You drill down to about 20

766
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,040
meters and often it was a
standard depth.

767
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,840
OK, drill down to 20 meters,
find out was at the bottom of

768
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:54,360
the hole.
So when we saw this in the in

769
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,040
the open pit wall that there was
20 meters of cover thought, ah,

770
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:03,080
let's go back to the maps in the
office and let's remove all the

771
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,960
holes from the maps that were
less than 20 meters deep.

772
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:13,600
And that created these vast gaps
in what looked like an area that

773
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:18,120
had been drilled.
And so we drew up a pattern

774
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:25,720
pattern I think was 240 meters
line spacing, 80m hole spacing

775
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:28,880
on the lines.
The first gap that we drilled

776
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,760
was 500 meters from the existing
operating mill.

777
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,960
And we found quarters again
within sort of within a month of

778
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,640
starting on that, on that
strategy.

779
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,880
And of course quarters produced
about 1,000,000 oz.

780
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:52,080
So the critical thing in all of
this is, is to be absolutely

781
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:56,800
clear that the drilling has been
effective in terms of testing

782
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:01,280
what the geologist might, might
be thinking about at the time.

783
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,480
And I, I see it, I mean, even,
you know, in the Yandel belt for

784
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:09,120
example, I mean explorations
been going on there since we

785
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:13,120
found bronze wing in 92.
There's still large areas when

786
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,880
when the geologist dragged the
maps out that look like they've

787
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:18,800
been drilled.
But do you ask the question how

788
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:23,240
much of it's effective?
And most of the holes go away,

789
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:28,440
so it's under explored.
So is strategy more important

790
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,840
than geological thinking?
Although you have to have both.

791
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:36,600
I mean, the success of HEMI, for
example, is a function that you

792
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,960
know, Andrew Beckworth and his
team knew exactly what had to do

793
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,480
the what they had to do and how
to go about it once they got

794
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,320
onto it.
So you can't separate the two.

795
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,360
You actually have to get the
right strategy and then have the

796
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:56,160
right right team together.
If, if we look forward now, Ed,

797
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,600
you're, you're doing some
exciting stuff in, in SA and

798
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:03,160
using your, your abundance of
experience and and knowledge.

799
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,720
How do you, I think you can sort
of relay that like obviously

800
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:09,800
you're doing that in a, in a
private structure.

801
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,080
What are the sort of differences
you're you're bringing forward

802
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,000
and how sort of excited are you
are the prospects?

803
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,560
Well, we're, I guess we're
doing, I'm personally doing two

804
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,200
things.
One part of as part of a private

805
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,680
syndicate we're exploring in
South Australia for sediment

806
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:34,320
hosted copper and we're
exploring for Degrusa type the

807
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:40,320
HMS deposits in in the Brier
Euroder and Brier basin north of

808
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:45,000
Megathorough.
And so we're doing that and

809
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:50,520
we're applying the logic and
fortunately we have enough

810
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:54,400
capital between us to actually
follow that through.

811
00:57:55,440 --> 00:58:01,840
And as a consequence we've been
exploring either as DGO or

812
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:07,680
privately in on the Stewart
shelf in SA now for probably 10

813
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,680
years.
And what we're looking for is

814
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:14,320
sediment hosted copper.
They're using the Zambian copper

815
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:19,960
belt model as, as the analogue.
And we've we've established that

816
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:24,560
the concept is applicable and we
found copper mineralization and

817
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:31,400
now we're finding economic
mineralization up to 20 meters

818
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:34,320
at 1% copper within 20 meters of
the surface.

819
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:41,360
Everything's undercover.
We have about 200 kilometers of

820
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:45,040
strike of what's called the
transition zone, which is where

821
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,640
where you would expect the
copper mineralization to be.

822
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:54,200
And we've done, we did a very
large soil sampling program last

823
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:59,840
year and I can't remember how
many samples we took, but it's,

824
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:05,600
it's again, it's identified a
number of areas of some scale.

825
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:10,400
And we know this is reliable
because we've got the source

826
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,120
sampling results over where
we've actually found corporate

827
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,280
depth.
So we're, we're very optimistic

828
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:21,120
about the potential outcome.
And of course the benefit, the

829
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,080
infrastructure benefits are
incredible.

830
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,440
And it's only about an hour from
Port Augusta.

831
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:31,360
There's a highway to Alice
Springs, there's a railway line,

832
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:37,200
there's pipelines and there's
electric transmission lines

833
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:41,920
going to Olympic Dam, all
within, you know, within one or

834
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:43,800
two kilometres of where we're
exploring.

835
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,600
Yeah, it may, it may in fact be
a disadvantage that they're

836
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:51,280
there if we find copper
underneath these transmission

837
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,360
lines.
But we'll worry about that when,

838
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:58,400
when the time comes.
But that that, that looks a part

839
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,240
of, it's a joint venture with
gold, right?

840
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:08,000
And, and and part of it we own
100% or Discover Co, the company

841
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,880
owns 100% off.
In terms of what we're doing at

842
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,440
Eurida, we're exploring there
again, it's a joint venture with

843
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:19,160
Gold right as we've joined
ventured back into the land that

844
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:25,800
DGO had and Discover Co is in
the process of earning its

845
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:29,920
equity in earning back that
equity in, in, in that land.

846
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:37,120
So it's, and we're look, it's
people have been exploring for

847
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:42,440
Degrusa type mineralisation in
the Briar and Urina basin since

848
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:47,920
the 1970s and Degrusa's the only
one that's been on and Monty,

849
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,160
which is a sideshow the only one
that's been found.

850
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:54,520
But the, but the geological
evidence is strong that

851
01:00:54,520 --> 01:01:00,760
there'll, there'll be others.
And we, we've again, we've been

852
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:06,480
exploring there now for, for
several years and we're

853
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:10,440
encouraged by what we see.
We haven't done a lot of

854
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:14,840
drilling, We haven't done a lot
of recent drilling in the area.

855
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:19,040
So that's, so that's really the
next step.

856
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:25,720
And then the other thing that I
do is I invest in, in the

857
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:33,520
existing ASICS listed explorers
and, and with, with, with the

858
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:40,000
same lens as what we use to, to
identify the HEMI prospects.

859
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:43,440
In other words, investing
companies that have land in

860
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:50,280
scale potentially have owned
100% of the Land Management has

861
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:57,360
got to be competent and capable.
And so we've invested in the

862
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:04,960
animal resources and and Cal
gold and both of those have, you

863
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:09,280
know, potential for are are
improving gold provinces for a

864
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:14,320
start and have potential to find
decent sized discoveries.

865
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:22,400
Like with with DGOII, you took
issue with being referenced as

866
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:24,560
an exploration company in the
past.

867
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,200
And we're like, we're in the
business of discovery, not

868
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,440
exploration.
So I find it quite, quite

869
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,720
intriguing that the private
entity you're dealing with now,

870
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:34,760
it's called Discover Code.
It's in the name, you can't

871
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:37,000
mistake it.
Why do you feel strongly about

872
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,480
the difference of being an
exploration company versus a

873
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:45,680
discovery company?
Well, that's it's, it's the same

874
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:47,760
reason why I don't like the word
project.

875
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:55,400
We're in the business of making
discoveries, not exploring.

876
01:02:56,280 --> 01:03:01,480
And and yeah, is that is that
being a bit pedantic?

877
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:08,960
Well, if it is bad luck, because
the purpose of drilling holes

878
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:14,280
is, is not just to go through
the process, but is to get, get

879
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,760
an outcome.
And yes, you've got to go

880
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,640
through, you've got to go
through the process and you

881
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,720
know, all the, all the checks
and balances that need to occur,

882
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,240
either they all need to occur.
But at the end of the day,

883
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:31,360
unless, unless we're clear about
why we are doing what we're

884
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:35,160
doing, you know, you, you can
lose sight of the fact.

885
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:39,520
I mean, there are geologists who
love doing geology, whether

886
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:43,120
whether they whether they find
something or not, sometimes

887
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,600
there's not.
Well, sometimes it's not the

888
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:47,600
main game.
They just like doing geology.

889
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:54,200
I like being involved in making
discoveries and using geological

890
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:57,520
knowledge to do that.
Is that that outcome of the

891
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,680
chase, as you called it before,
still as exciting as it was 50

892
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:01,880
years ago of?
Course it is.

893
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:08,240
It's it's, you know, you know,
getting a a, a drill hole result

894
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:15,360
when that that's even when you
do expect it is yeah, when you

895
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:19,720
actually have it confirmed that
this is potentially something

896
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:26,400
new or something big or or both,
you know, that's it is exciting.

897
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:31,440
I want to I want to tap in a
little bit to to how, how things

898
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:34,280
unfolded with with DGO, you
know, by virtue of DG OS

899
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:38,280
investment in in the grade DG DG
OS market cap.

900
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:42,960
Also it it exploded, always
traded at a bit of a a discount

901
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,920
to to NTA.
And for that reason, maybe it

902
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:51,200
was a pretty, pretty obvious
entry to pick up a a substantial

903
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:53,360
stake into the grey.
So ultimately how that

904
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:58,240
culminated is is gold Rd.
acquired DGO you're sitting on

905
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:00,400
the board of the grey around
this time.

906
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,640
I'm I think.
So how are you kind of

907
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:06,760
evaluating the, the, the, the
lay of the land knowing that

908
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:10,600
you're, you know, you're sitting
on a world class deposit and

909
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,920
it's going to be of interest to,
to, to majors and that, you

910
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:18,160
know, you're also still at DGO,
which is, which is going to have

911
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:19,640
the stake, which is very
attractive.

912
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:25,080
But that, that's an interesting
question and that it does raise

913
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:28,120
the does raise the issue of
conflict.

914
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:36,080
And that's in the end, in the
end, what Bruce and I in

915
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:40,600
particular decided to do was to
every time we invested new

916
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:42,240
money, we're actually investing
it.

917
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:46,160
We're diluting our interest
because our, our share price

918
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:50,600
wasn't reflecting the true value
of our, even our holding in, in

919
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:54,280
the grey.
And when, when we started on the

920
01:05:54,280 --> 01:06:00,640
process of selling DGO to gold,
then then potential conflict

921
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:02,440
arise.
So it was best for us to step

922
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,920
step down.
Yeah, but do you like, do you

923
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:11,440
remember the emotions in kind of
being in the midst of of a, you

924
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,000
know, a pretty, pretty
meaningful.

925
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:16,080
It was different.
It's like, yes, you've been

926
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,360
around discoveries before, but
there was there was something

927
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,040
different about Degray and the
Degray was a pureplay

928
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:24,960
exploration company with a giant
discovery as opposed to being

929
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:27,080
being in.
Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, there

930
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:34,800
were mixed emotions about about
stepping away from it because I

931
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,440
think, you know what I mean,
apart from being involved in

932
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:44,040
exploration in in the
exploration phase, also being

933
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:50,280
involved in in building mines
and building villages.

934
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:56,840
And when you think about that,
just for a moment, we actually

935
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:01,480
built Jandi village 30
kilometres from Luna.

936
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:07,400
We built the Brunswing village,
40 kilometers from Leinster.

937
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:12,640
We bought, we built the Sons of
Gaulia, this Sons of Gaulia

938
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:20,280
village in Leonora, right.
And, and yet, and there's a,

939
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:25,600
there's a debate starting now
about, about the benefit of the

940
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:28,480
all stakeholders of mining
activity.

941
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:34,920
But when I think hard about it,
if you if you think about our

942
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:39,480
our British Lioness and the
Aboriginal issue that we have,

943
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:46,360
then you have AFL footballers
who are top of their game,

944
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:47,600
right?
Where do they come from?

945
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:51,840
They usually come from the
Wheatbelt towns in WA where they

946
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:53,880
play football with the local
teams.

947
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:55,680
That's where they get their
skills.

948
01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:05,680
And, and yet if we'd actually
had the mindset and the

949
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:09,720
government support and the
community support to say build,

950
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:15,520
build our facility like like
they did in the 1960s when BHP

951
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:19,040
and Rio built, you know, Port
Hedland, Parabatou and, and

952
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:22,080
Mount Newman, etcetera.
We'd had that mindset.

953
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:26,240
You would have been able to
establish communities at Leonora

954
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:33,080
and at Bullena as an example and
at Leinster where you had you

955
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,000
could accommodate all aspects of
our society.

956
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:40,240
And then you would have been
able to dream a little bit.

957
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,960
You would have been able to have
football teams in Waluna and

958
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:49,399
Leinster and Leonora where the
young Aboriginal men could play

959
01:08:49,399 --> 01:08:52,000
the football and the young
Aboriginal women would play

960
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:53,880
netball and you'd have
competitions.

961
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:58,880
And you get, you know, get this
community situation happening as

962
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,319
as does happen in the Wheat belt
towns, right?

963
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:09,880
That's never happened.
And that's, that's and and the

964
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:12,880
reason why I raised this is that
I've raised this particularly

965
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:16,319
with with the grey when I was on
the board about this same issue

966
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,720
about and it's for them to
decide.

967
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:24,200
But in the end it's only an hour
from Port Hedland.

968
01:09:25,399 --> 01:09:27,920
Do is it?
Is it really the best in an

969
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,880
overall sense when you've got a
30 year mine to actually have

970
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,160
fly in, fly out from Perth when
you've got Port Hedland?

971
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:40,200
Now it requires a lot of
coordination between governments

972
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:44,000
and companies and communities
for these two things to work.

973
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,960
But if you don't even start on
it, it's not going to happen.

974
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:51,439
So yeah.
With that all said, you, you've

975
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:54,080
made an active decision through
your career to, to focus on

976
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:57,520
Australia, to focus on Western
and Australia in particular.

977
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,360
So you clearly think the the
opportunity set that we have

978
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:06,440
here sits above the the pack.
Well, they do in that clearly.

979
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:12,160
I mean, Australia, 85% of the
rocks that host the, the large

980
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:17,160
deposits are undercover.
So modern day exploration is

981
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:21,560
only just starting to unpack,
unpack that in, in my view,

982
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:27,360
obviously the infrastructure in
Australia in many places is, is,

983
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:30,920
is supportive of any potential
mine development.

984
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:37,200
The the regulatory environment,
whether it's whether it's

985
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:41,160
environmental or whether it's
the traditional owners or

986
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:45,160
whether it's with conflict of
land use between farmers and,

987
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:47,440
and miners.
All of that's pretty well

988
01:10:47,440 --> 01:10:51,520
understood.
And yes, it can be bureaucratic

989
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,680
and it can be slow, but there
usually is an answer.

990
01:10:55,960 --> 01:11:00,600
And OK, you go to Africa where
you can walk up to a mine,

991
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:07,040
Australian technology will show
you where you have to drill, but

992
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:11,480
then you have the sovereign risk
and that sovereign risk keeps

993
01:11:11,480 --> 01:11:17,200
playing out to the disadvantage
of, you know, of shareholders,

994
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:22,040
Australian shareholders anyway.
Let's to to our great advantage,

995
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:25,000
Ed, that you've spent your
career exploring in in Australia

996
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:28,200
and discovering, and let's hope
there's a a few more discoveries

997
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:30,600
left in future.
Thanks a lot for joining us and

998
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,560
sharing all your your stories
and thoughts and perspectives.

999
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,840
Well, thank you.
There we go mate, another

1000
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:40,000
fantastic bit of insights, all
made possible thanks to our

1001
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,400
fantastic partners Sand at
Ground Support Focus the

1002
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:45,680
platform by market tech.
Check it out now and get your

1003
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:50,360
tickets to iMac October 21 to
October 23 investors go free.

1004
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:55,480
Now remember, I'm an idiot.
JD is an idiot.

1005
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:57,880
If you thought any of this was
anything other than

1006
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,560
entertainment, you're an idiot
and you need to read out a

1007
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:01,080
disclaimer.